The Cybertruck lives, and so does OpenAI
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Hello, convert chest america, number one source of cybernetic wiper news and saw all thanks to readers like you.

That's actually true. Now I think like I think that was that we spoke into existence that we are the world's in number one source of cyber drug weber news yeah.

people believe us. The thing is we still don't know the answer to this question. Not IT.

We'll get into IT though. I'm your friend near David pearce here. Well, how friends is here.

I'm your friend who wishes they use a cross boat like checked IT with a cross. But I wants to see, how does IT with stand cross fire?

The cyber truck? Well.

we know the answer now.

Do not cross s all. I see. We know a regular show.

Yeah, I want like crossbows catapults.

Alex, one of the reasons that I know that like, i'd like you and we're friends is that no part of me would be surprised if that was a reveal that you're like sick with across like tough. I wouldn't blink if you just like pulled across boat out from underneath the table and like, just like.

yeah, yeah that's that's what I do my off time traces for my crossbill x .

throwing cross pose.

I am actually really good with an extra. I like the extroversion knife throwing, terrible x throwing.

It's like I got IT. Well, let's explain why we're talking at this. There's quite a lot of news this week, but we are coming to you directly after the tesla cyber truck launch event, which was very odd.

That itself followed elon musk at the deal book conference today, which was even weirder. So we are literally live reacting to you post cybernetic reveal in which we learned nothing. Yeah, I want to be very clear.

I was a twenty five minute event. IT started twenty five minutes late after playing a an enormous amount of a is just ominous ambient music. Uh, that was strange.

Iron comes out. They go through cybercrime. Spects, here's how much you can pull.

You can pull more than a ford f one fifty lightning and a rival in an f fifty dial. great. The baseball had IT poorly.

The first .

time friends missed, yes. And the second .

time he was just like.

he was very weak. Yeah but the windows didn't shatter the time they're happy about IT.

Well, yeah, if you're thrown at that, he throw like eye able i'm terrible at throw a ball and like I sincerely .

ly believed that if you threw a baseball at that speed at my cars window IT would not that kind of what .

I said as like in honda civics would stand more impact than yeah .

yeah and IT was just so funny because IT was clearly that moment was it's sort of set up to be like a bigger laws moment because IT was, I think, feasted four years ago, which is nuts, that this was four years ago, the first time this happened. Franz got out there and threw a ball at a supposedly baseball proof window.

which you think we clear. He threw a metal ball at a supposedly bullet proof window.

哦 OK， that's a good distinction ah ah and IT IT shatters .

and then he did IT again and the other window shatter yeah incredible moment in product history.

I was fantastic. IT was one of the great like live demos or a disaster moments I really enjoyed IT but he sets this up as the sort of redemptive moment four years later. And like, kudos to them for, you know, laughing about this, but then didn't rerun the test.

He had a lab, a baseball at the window, and he missed the first time. He hit like, the underneath of the window and then yeah like alex, the same sort of gently update. You can really .

tell this man did not want to do this thing.

no. And IT. The funny is part was they got to the end and he didn't get any of the like applause, breaks or laughs or anything he was hoping for. And he was just like, it's good, is my point.

In the body bounce on the ground at one point, very, very like higher than I would expect a baseball to bounce. There are now .

ten owners of a cyber that we have been told.

yes.

they were not allowed to drive their own cyber trucks away. So the event happens when we can talk about all the specks and whatever when we've got some pricing now for the cyber style is interesting um but the event ends with iron one by one, shaking a person's hand and putting them in a cyberia ck in the passenger seat in having them driven away.

Did you guys recognize anybody I saw a xiaoyuan was the one person I recognize, the medico founder and husband of three lies. I'm sure there were other people in this world that I should have known. Did you get see any faces you recognize .

other I didn't catch lexis he took a cyber truck.

yeah. Lexis with like big like wolver mutton chops got in to a sea truck. IT was was a cool look.

Do you think they were real? Or do you think he .

was like in disguise? Si his cyber truck, yeah.

what I caught was that after the second one, elon was visibly annoy that he had to keep shaking people's hands, hugs, and he on the camera, well, to deliver you that I think people were watching a live stream of just ten people getting there and truck and driven away and he said, IT, like three more times is like, well, this is what's going to keep happening and then he tried to end IT early after nine. I think he was like, well, we're done and someone else, there's a one and to shake one more hand uh, and these people are getting rush off stage. I think only one family got like the picture yeah but whatever IT doesn't matter, it's IT was an odd event.

But what did you notice that nobody could figure out how to get into the car? This is my favorite part of the whole keep up having to tell people. I think almost every single person who got into the car had trouble figuring out how to open the passenger side door to get in.

And at first he was saying things like, oh, you just press that and then he was sort of figured out, and by the end he just sort of reflective, was going just press the button on the top as they're walking the thing and they would press IT and get in. And this just makes me so happy, like the tesla has lots of interesting ideas about cars and just exclusively bad ideas about how to get into them. And IT just makes me happy that december truck continues that a pace. Yeah.

IT was great, is great. And hopefully we'll see these actually around what we did not learn was whether the wiper blades, one blade or two in line.

shameful.

I ve been received so many photos now, and I think i've been clear about my theory. Yeah.

you've assigned someone to go.

Even we sent someone to the tester. And I, hawkins went with our time for a little rails. I told any that I would pay his bail if he got arrested for lifting the light up.

And he checked out fine. Um but I ve now people I ve just like reinterpreted what they think I mean by is a two wipers. One person wrote me in email is that I I prefer the two wiper design on a regular card.

That's not most people do.

So is the free market like I don't .

let's let's just take this back me like what is what is your current belief about the cyberia t whipper? Because like you said, we've gotten, I would say, like the ten best pictures we've ever gotten of the cyberhomes k labor in the last eight days, most of them thanked the verge, cast listeners. So thank you to everyone who sent those in. Uh, what is your current belief about smart cki? I think IT .

might be one wiper. I think IT might be one extremely weird custom wipers played. I not I don't know for sure.

I i've now seen reporting of other people who've seen the the truck in a in youtube video like test lifts conferences saying it's two wipers in a line and i've asked, do you know or do you do you know and gone no response so I don't know but now that someone owns i'm sure alex us has like an nda about this truck but i'm definitely going na write him a note you like, can you pick up why? Because no one knows. No one knows.

And IT is the most enduring mystery about this truck. Like did tesla. A very fast triggers they did is IT so fast that they can out accelerate a port nine eleven while towing a port nine eleven. Yes, that's very cool.

Is that bulletproof? Who knows? Sort of the bottom is the bottle. We saw someone firing IT a Tommy gun into the side of the during this event.

So you're one thousand nine hundred and twenty nine y's mobster like you. You're good.

Can IT understand your rogan firing a medal tipped armor piercing arrow at the sign? We know that answer. How do the wipers work remains a deep and defining mystery about this vehicle. We've seen photos, like overhead photos, extremely muddy and dirty. Tesla.

just a huge .

and just a huge dirty spot. I've seen videos of extremely mud tesla party hotels where IT is obvious, the passenger could not see very well and they've reached ed their hand inside and wiped off the mud manually. There is an argument in our comments over whether not the ford f one fifty actually wipes proportionally less of the windshield than the cyber truck.

And I had to be like, look, here's one thing I know for sure. Maybe the cyber track proportionally mathematically covers more of the windshield than the effort fifty. No passenger in my f 1 fifty has ever reached over the side and wiped off some more of the winch。

IT is just such a bunkers design problem that they've created for themselves. And now it's here. So eventually the mystery will expire. right? Eventually this will all be over and will know it's one one per or two. I just think it's amazing that for weeks now, we've propelled a number of tech in car enthusiast into not knowing because no one knows.

Very good.

We're going to find that one thing. Do we do know some pricing. So the base model, which is available in twenty twenty five, oh, and we just a point, we worth the launch event .

in twenty .

twenty three. Yeah, the base model in twenty twenty five is sixty thousand .

nine hundred and one .

sightly more supposed ten thousand dollars.

one thousand dollars.

Inflation has like, yeah, thanks biden. Yeah, thanks. And you know, he did IT just so he could say inflation.

Biden made inflation happen. We'll get to that. That's going to have a tune for a human range uh six point five seconds zero sixty. The oil drive model should deliver next year, he says. Delivery in twenty and twenty four, by the way, big difference between available in two thousand and twenty five and delivery in twenty twenty four. I would tell you, based on what we know, the model three in the cheap model three just sort of never arriving.

go for the delivery in twenty.

twenty four more. This base model will drive.

Don't buy IT.

just buy any other, just be quite ever. I'll buy another truck. And if that thing ever comes out.

you go you just keep leasing trucks until the cyber truck actually cubes out and you can buy IT.

This one is here to anchor the Price for its one of your .

three year periods. It'll finally be available.

There was a meeting at tesla where they were deciding what copy to put in the website, and they put delivery in twenty twenty four for the oil drive and for the cyber beast. And then someone's like, what do we say about the base model? Then they all looked at each other, in brainstormed words possible in twenty twenty five. Apparently in twenty and twenty five and they .

went with .

available seemly in all will drive, which I think is the true base model that's eighty thousand dollars, seventy nine and nine ninety delivered in twenty and twenty four, three hundred forty miles range, four point one seconds there.

Or to sixty, you will know they don't the top speed on the elusive based model, but this one has one hundred and twelve million hour top speed six and horse power, seventy four hundred pound feet of talk in one thousand pounds of capacity. Just big, silly truck numbers. yeah. And then the cyber beast.

yeah, the beast that was my brother's high school nickname. He got IT as a tattoo. He no longer has call .

him the best. Now we're nall by.

I'm not doing that.

This is one hundred thousand million, ninety nine, nine ninety, slightly lower range, three, twenty miles, much faster to twenty six seconds, hundred thirty miles, our top speed, eight hundred forty five, five, ten thousand times. I'm guessing it's hard to know. I'm guessing that this is the triple motor one.

Okay, i'm guessing I don't know there. There are no spects. IT doesn't quite tell you.

Do you think it's that one of those like muffle ers.

the big the speakers in the muffle ers.

what test this? Make sounds if they can do IT .

you can make like.

yeah.

but the beast has like a special dish that sounds. And so this is all of the new information that we have. Is this much specks in this much pricing? And then elon being like it's good at truck stuff, which they really insisted upon, right? It's good at work stuff. It's good at towing. At one point, he is like, as you all know, a tractor pull is the most important metric .

for a truck.

is that is, is that is. And they demonstrated that a tesla can pull a sled would loaded IT down with weight much farther than other trucks.

How was the breaking like that's what I care about at the tractor pull. I don't do those but if i'm pulling a trailer.

I do care about like to try .

yeah you want good breaks yeah you want to like not have to slim into you and stuff if I know .

anything in my tesla, we're we're all going to learn something about the cyber trucks breaks regular tests as because they use, regenerate, breaking so much to recapture energy, they often have weird break issues.

Just I think I have two questions about this cyber truck being for truck stuff thing that i've been thinking about since they started talking about this. And the first is like, why frame IT that way if you're tesla? On the one hand, there are a lot of people who do not do truck stuff with their trucks, who buy trucks anyway.

On the other hand, competing for the truck stuff market is probably more complicated than just being like, look, we built this cool new thing with a big truck bed. It's something completely different. IT will do like late truck stuff, but not full truck stuff.

But fundamentally, like he keeps saying over over their taglines, the future should look like the future, which is very funny and doesn't mean anything. But and he said something the effective like this is going to change the look of the road. Why not call this a different thing as opposed to talking to a bunch of people who probably don't want a car that looks like this, don't want an electric car right now and just aren't really the tesla target market at all. I just I don't get that part of this.

Yeah, it's kind of like an l como. Like that's that's like we're it's existing in the the truck ecosystem, right?

Too mean it's too mean, I mean, it's it's a truck. It's is biggest f one and fifty and L K. It's a very different.

I think they should bring back the alamo. If you're listening to this in evy alcmena, I think we do. We welcome on america's words, talk about change, and will look at the word s this, I think, is different. I think if you already make the best selling car in the country, the model y to move the needle, you've gotta make something else.

It's really popular yeah and the poor f one fifty is the most popular vehicle in amErica for the last four hundred years like the first job that ChatGPT is gonna take is the writing the press release that as the ford f one fifty is once again amErica is best sign vehicle like i've gotten that pressure every year that i've been alive and that's that's great for four. But IT is the biggest car market in the country. It's the most ferocious.

IT is where the Prices have settle on up. If you want to sell one hundred thousand million car, you're selling a truck. That's just the way it's going. You're selling a giant S U.

V or a pickup truck. Most of people buying those trucks like just regular consumers. Are they actually buying IT to be a truck? Or or they buying IT to be a truck?

You are the one from tax ourselves.

You tell me I like I tend to feel like the other. I know a lot of people who buy trucks because they need them to hall. My friend called me the day and how in admire?

I'm on a bear. Mayor, mayor. But siri thought he was mayor, and I was like, is eric atoms in your car .

about half? You need A F three fifty to hall? Yeah, he comes to a lot of baggage.

But yeah like I feel like the majority of people I see who just want to track want to truck just because it's like it's cool, it's fun and it's it's need to drive and sometimes you're like what I got remove much a crap and now I can .

mean I I to pick up track for these reasons.

That's why my mom has one. yeah. The most most people need to do is like they have a piles of dirt in their backyard that they would like to not be in their backyard anymore. And that's like the most truck stuff I think a lot of trucks owners get into.

yeah no. When we in the pandemic, we move in the country and I to take my own trash once a week. And I convinced myself that owning a pickup truck was the only solution to this problem. And now I don't now I don't live in in the country, and I still on a pickup truck, and I haven't figured out why. But I know that we're not getting worried of IT.

You need to do some sad work or something.

No, don't have. We live a very man. But this .

refinish incompatible .

with the area I live in now, yet we still have IT. That said, look, there, a lot of people, like pick up trucks, and you can have a lot of feelings about that. Are they appropriate cars for most places? No depends, right? Do cars need to be this big? At one point in the cyberia ck event, elon said, if you get to do a fight with another a car, you will win. And he showed a car crashing into IT.

Is that bad in our transnational reporting.

andy hawkins, who has been on a tair, pointing out the cars are too big, they are too dangerous or dangerous other pedestrians, especially when they started going as fast or incredibly dangerous other cars. That's not a good thing.

Yeah like we used have a thunder bird sixty six thunderbird when I was a kid and stuff and IT was really cool. And if you ve got an accident, you were totally fine. And now, but like, the knowledge was, if you got an accident with a modern car, you would annaly IT.

And that's actually horrible. And then you'd also get bat around inside the car and just ping pong and like there was not a lot of safety discussion at this event and that was little concerning for me given that they have a giant stainless still box they're putting on the road. Yeah like what what are cripple zones like on this thing? Because everybody else is like crumble zones.

They should do that. And this guys like, you know what? Small arms fire in .

a cyber truck, you crumble everything.

They they did show some crash testing. We will see who knows, right? A million who knows questions.

But back to David point, which is why market this thing as a truck people level, it's because it's the last market, the last big section in the market to go get. I think they could have picked one or two others, right? Lux xury S U V S that are not the model x, which is a little long.

In the truth, that's a big market that's growing. Who knows if you can build an evy in that form factor, but this I think they wanted to build this because this is the statement piece. IT is the big bold design.

They're not counting on IT winning, which I think they've not set on some earnings calls like the model lie is the volume test. Lets going keep doing what it's doing even as they're slashing Prices. Left, right? This is the one that's going to be the halo car.

Yeah, there's a way to look at this that it's like this successor to the roadster in a pretty real way that that this is like the car hardly anybody has but reliably turns heads when you see IT on the street. And in that sense, I sort of buy IT. But I just keep going back back to this idea of, like, if you are a person who like uses the hell out of your truck, what on earth would compel you to buy a cybercrime at this moment of time? I just don't know that there are good answers.

This is where we have to talk about elon until book we should not dwell on yeah all right. And David like does not want to talk. I I super don't but we should but you can't actually right now divorce tesla, the car company from elon must the man, which is a real problem.

So in some academic argument about market share and products, you're like, why would you make this product? Why your market this way? And you can come to an answer.

And part of the answer right now is why would you buy a car from you on mosque? Like there are some enormous segment at the population that is just over his antics, over his weird racist and anthea's tweet. This is over him, right? And what we saw.

but to be fair, there's also a chunk of people on the the exact opposite in the that spectrum who will who will follow him to the ends of the earth. And by anything he tells them to buy yeah like he can have a podcast selling them supplements and they would buy the supplements. I think that group is substantially smaller than IT was twenty four months ago.

and I still don't think they have hundred thousand years. I just want to be very clear, right um because the people you need to spend the money are often very educated and this is like a real problem for elan but he lives in a twitter bubble and he thinks the twitter bubble is real and he thinks the thing that gets him engagement on twitter will get him engaged in in real life. And then he goes to conferences like we saw him this week, the deal book conference of Andrea circa n and delivers what are like bangers on twitter it's a dead silence.

IT was just like twitter come to life and then the silence afterwards was so like every time he do a punched line in the APP to the Cameron villa yeah and it's just like crickets yeah .

our translation reporter in our point out that he would often deliver the punch lands twice and second time he got to pity that which is if you go wash again it's a very real dynamic. Um I mean that that joke the twitter that thing that twitter isn't real life, his his appearance of deal book was just oh which is not real life. Like fully incapable later in that event.

And so we should talk about what he said. There's a few things that are just worth pulling apart. The first and most important is that advertisers are leaving twitter after yet more of mosques antics and weird antisemitism and media matters.

Had a report about ad showing up next to bad content, the advertiser started leaving because that's whatever testers do whenever there are brand safety concerns on any platforms. I would just uh, offer you the example of something called the apocalypse on youtube, which was exactly this thing. And Susan will gic, who was the see of youtube at time, did not tell a bunch of advertisers to go fuck themselves.

They actively try to fix that. Elan's response was to look at the deal work, audience and say, if you think you can blackmail me with money, go fuck yourself and he was like, bob, if you're here, meaning bob, go fuck yourself. I I don't know like again, that's it's not I don't sell the ads for us on my side of the house.

I'm fairly confident of the people who sold their ads announced a conference. There are client square up back theme like I don't think the advertisers are coming back and then he follows up with this advertising boycott will kill the company in the world will know IT. We will documented IT. And I think Andrew followed up by asking, isn't that a bad thing?

And he, like earth, will know, yeah, he really thinks that everyone is going to come out and save x. He was that was one thing. He was very clear. And he constantly corrected Andrew on colleague x verses twitter and he really thinks that, like, the upper will save ex and it's like, no, but the upper caused this to happen. Everybody's leaving because there was an up or because everybody y's mad at you yeah.

I mean, we have talked about on the show there was a time when twitter was a particular kind of monopoly. And no matter what the company did in that, I will issue or dislikes mr. Again criticism of elon moscow o twitter is no way praise for the previous administration of twitter who did a horrible job run this company, but they had a kind of monopoly, or no matter how badly they screw up, everyone kept coming back to twitter.

And i'm pretty sure elan thought that he was buying that monopoly. Yes, because if I was addicted to cigarettes, nothing ever was. And I bought a cigarette company.

I like these rules. Everyone's addicted to my product just as much as I am. And then everyone was like, now you are an apple and we tape now. And that is more or less what has happened to you on moscow?

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's wild how even a year ago that seemed like a reasonable bet, right? I think there was a time when I looked like for all of the chaos and for all of the bad stuff, everybody was just going to hold their nose and keep using twitter because to something, there was nobody to go.

And to a potentially larger extent, the chaos and the fund are so close to each other on twitter that you you can ramp up one and kind of accidentally ramp up the like, the the messes, the point. And I think like twelve months ago, i'm sure on this show, we were having this same debate. And to me at this point, I think IT feels like a foregone conclusion that at some point or another, x is gona go away in a pretty real way. I don't know if the companies is going to dies because he has so much money.

he could fit the thing forever if he felt like IT OS.

I also get the increasing sense that he is trying to set IT up in such a way that if x goes away, goes out of business to closed bankrupt, whatever IT turns out to be ah he wants to be a murder and he he wants to have that will be his like full proof positive that the world is against human has gone walking.

Everything is a disaster and now he kind of wins coming and going, right? It's either like a business Victory or a moral Victory or it's kind of a moral Victory on either side no matter what happens. He trying to set up this thing that I find very strange. I mean.

it's it's not that strange because it's a it's a pretty common playbook now like that. This was the existing playbook trumps and continues to have. And I think it's just a really it's it's difficult to counter, and I think that's why it's really like useful and deeply irritating.

Let me make the distinction for you a comparison and distinction. O you're right. It's the same playbook, very different.

The election was lost. Everyone is corrupt. IT was stolen from me. The bad forces came and took this away from me. That's voting with your votes.

Very few people get to make that argument when it's voting with your dollars. That's and so iran is now making the argument that these world corporations are no longer paying advertising to to spite him. And IT is very hard to tell anyone, particularly americans, that they have an obligation to spend money. IT is just not a thing you can do in this country culturally, just not a thing you can do to say you have to spend money, advertising dollars on this platform because it's important that this thing exists. And most people are like what you can tell me, how to spend my money.

the immediate reaction on social media in our own like comments since everybody is just like, no, it's my money oh.

no, it's it's very like we talk a lot about free speech ship and like when it's anything but money, like everyone immediately sees the gray areas, there's like new ones. When it's like you have to spend money, people can you know I don't. No, no, sir. No, thank you. Yeah, good. Fuck yourself.

And it's like just watching him run into this, right? Like he had this argument about test us at the diable conference as well, where he was like, I think Andrew asked him, are you worry that you're tweet and arantes s and how the company said, no, we make the best car. If you want the best car, you have to buy a tesla, which is debated.

But IT is a market driven argument, right, right? We're putting our product in the market. And if people are going to look in evaluation, maybe they evalu.

They are going the best car pick car, the best selling car. Okay, you're competing the market. You're weighing all the variables with twitter.

It's like if you don't advertise here, you're destroying america. And it's that's just not how that works. That's just a weird argument.

And and to say like my product is objectively worse or my product is not what the market demands for me or what the market says that wants not buying IT anyway is the problem. I don't know me like it's just odd. And like what's gonna en right next to IT, it's threads is going to lie to up advertising.

We're going to go to a holiday season where tiktok and amazon and google and meta are all in q four. They all have sales people with real relationships. They all have content moderation teams. And let me say every dollar you were spending on twitter, you should spend that dollar here and will treat unicef tell .

you to fuck up yeah.

like we'll send you some swag whatever sells people I don't know. I know it's .

what I just just t shirts from company to company floating .

around in poor or Linda carena like her justice to around playbook and SHE can't because her boss has just told all these people to ef off I that will kill the company and this attempt to run the matter playbook IT will fail because you just cannot be a matter because people didn't even buy your shit. You you can't be a like a musician in be like people don't buy my album. The world is corrupt like.

no, I mean.

a lot of .

totally disagree with, well.

never IT never helps IT work.

I like this is going to sound like i'm joking, but i'm not. It's because no one else is trying hard enough. Like the thing ill musk is doing is is making IT his life's mission to tell everyone how x is the last bastion of free speech.

Anything against x is against free speech. Like lindy Karena tweet said, like I was an existences at a unique and amazing intersection of free speech and main street, which, like, what on earth does that mean? But there no idea what that means nonsense. But we're now in this position where, like he.

I really can I just point out speech notably free on main neth, you can find the main strain her town and stand on that corner and do whatever you want. Like, that's the whole point. That's the whole idea. Yeah, but you can yet cops arrest me in the cost. We like, no.

please don't. How many closed your .

where that's true? We like, one lip .

is fine, but he's gonna able to do this whole thing and get to the end of this process, say, by by killing x, you have killed free speech in america, and there is a ridiculous argument. But he has said at so many times that at this point some people are going to believe him. And it's just gonna be ridiculous, like Donald trump. Ys, about truth social that IT is no, nobody believes IT like part of IT is is elan took this thing that was so much bigger and destroyed so much faster that in a funny way it's going to make his argument more credible as he does this like he's gonna be able to track those two things against each other in a way that is absolutely unrelated to the truth of the world. But it's it's gonna work for him, for some people.

You've also got twitter brain saying that like I I I think like maybe maybe people on twitter, like his fans on twitter world probably believe that I don't think anybody else out the general world is going to be like, man, can you believe what has he was? right? There's something to IT. Yeah like some stuff. He says, sure.

I don't think you can make the Donald trump comparison and you made a few minutes ago .

and then make that are they both have very passionate groups of followers and those those passionate followers are going to follow them regardless what they say. And and they are both really, really good at that. And then they use that that that very vocal small group of followers as as as as culture, right like to is in his barriers to to all other discourse and all other like actual reality.

That's what he's really good at. That's that's terms really good at. And it's interesting to watch IT first play politics and now in in tech yeah it's kind of obama but is also interesting.

IT is definitely a bomber. I think the world might be Better off that. Twitter is on the decline as we go into election here.

Just put that out there yeah um i'm not saying that the ends justify the means. I think the means have been very destructive. Lots people lost their jobs like all it's been bad racism in A I M ism skyrocket on platform. No way by saying that the means have been appropriate, effective. I just think this argument that he represents free speech while he's suing media matters for criticizing him like this, is the stuff that just begins to fall in the years yeah like over and over and over again. And I think that when we talk about tesla, what he has to sell more cars and his antics with twitter are actively making people not want to give him money, whether that advertisers, whether it's car customers, whatever IT is the last monthly he has is actually SpaceX. yeah.

And it's a really good one.

It's a really good one. There is no the united launch lions is nowhere close to shipping a ford f one fifty lightning like know where there's like any other choice. There's no pole star in the rocket business.

I don't know basis out here kind of a do and stuff blue origin is like .

lingering lazos can't put up payload in the space. You can put like four rich people in the space.

but like some space. So full space like .

my girlfriends in the sky, like that's what you can do. Like maybe you'll get there is a long way away before space success, real competition and that's you can think about that anyway you want. But tesla has error competition. Twitter has role competition. And in both cases, he's reacting very differently.

And I just think as we go into n election year, as things get more heated on social media, his decisions about what he emphasize, what he moderates, all the stuff and whether not the platform is a safe place for advertisers because advertisers want brand safety. I think you're right. I think there there's not a world in which a year, for now, we are talking about a twitter, the company that exists in the form that even this diminished company exist right now. Yeah.

one more thing I say. We've fastly talked too much about this.

So good this quickly. It's it's just copyright, I promise you. Just me talking to a real, so working to ask my AI go to a slip at quick, posted a texture edp of this club.

IT is amazing. Sargon like AI is a lot of training data. You have a lot of training data like these corporate lawsuits might just end at all. And last looks at ander and says by the tiny lawsuits, come to a conclusion, will have a digital guard and you should ask him like, like, I know Andrew, you know, like very action I got and he's just like, what what are you talking about? He's like by the time these loses sort out, we'll have a digital god and that won't matter and that was the end like there's nothing more you can do that statement like he's like A I will have become a god and so CoOperate lawsuits who cares? It's like do those things are going to think like two or three years digital .

s ride around the corner? He's assending as we speak.

Okay, nei, digital god be a model cybernetic.

which comes first. So I got to go digit got in this one. You honestly.

I and I think if you're working .

at one of these generate a high companies, you hope it's digital god to because these cover lots are an existent al threat in this iba truck. You know.

it's just a truck. Get a sending. Get going.

Everyone had open eyes like furiously order a base model cybertopians. right? We, David, right? We ve talked enough. Everyone got, take back. Think my mother genna to read back.

Hey, italian from decoder with new IP top. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving, some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listening to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

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entrance access not limited to x ATM. Back IT feels like we should upstate everybody and wants going on with OpenAI this week yeah IT feels like there is a round of instantly absolute emergency podcast, including our including .

great podcast .

is twenty four hours.

IT was absolutely the .

best I enjoy listen to yeah .

was fun people, people like that a instantly. absolutely. So here's what we know, and we can kind of unpack what we think that means because there are some stuff we don't know. What we know is the same out then is officially back to CEO. He is not on the board of directors alia, the chief scientist, does not appeared to be working at opening high again, is not on the new board of directors, crack back when the president is back. As present, the new board directories has begun retailer the forma cy of sales force on the board, former treasury secretary.

Later, summer has interesting ideas about women.

Yes.

he thinks you about a math. I mean, I have said, and I thought this very thought, it's true. I'm sorry to all other women. There are many women who were excEllent math. I'm OK yeah but .

later is just some weird ideas but he has apparently been in the mix is adult. And then adam d. Angelo, who was on the old board, one of the guys who voted to remove sam and greg in the first place? yes.

And apparently adam they've like adam and sam of like hung out ool. So the new border rectors, its job is to make the actual board rectors and fill out this board. And then microsoft is taking an observers seat. And microsoft will not tell us who is taking that seat. We have asked and they say we're not where I can tell you.

do you think just be something like guy at my girl at micros?

I think the only rational answers given the head of A I microsoft but for some reason, microsoft, I don't know this yeah i'm just saying if I do look at microsoft.

maybe they're all on vacation.

then decided you it's not feel sponsor is IT possible. Microsoft doesn't. no. I mean, I just going back to so where we left our emergency podcast was we thought that sam and greg were microsoft in police who were going to start a new thing at microsoft.

And that was the thing that became most instantly absolute, yes, because suddenly became very clear that actually they were probably going back to open eye and IT was never really official. But then sorting the della does a round of media interviews in which I don't want to say I didn't sound like he knew what was going on, but IT kind of sounded like he didn't know what was going on. IT was IT got to the point where I was moving so fast that IT seemed like even he, the person who was bioaccumulate broersen whole thing, was caught off guard by some of the turns of IT. Yes.

I can color in some there OK. I I think there was an a notion that nedda was trying to make that happen. I think that ultimately he was involved in some conversations, but we now know the airbnb co.

Bran chest ki, who is a friend of sam matei, who is a form cy of twitch, who became the intimacy open I for five in the later he summer, and some other folks, they were the ones actually really mediating this conversation. And the dog was just like around, because he wanted to track my service. The other thing I know is that that round of mediators ors .

is arfa strange, interesting.

That's our fault. It's because alex and I reported that sam and greg, we're trying to go back to open an eye after microsoft had made a big announcement. Microsoft is big announced. They are gonna work. Microsoft are in to start new way. I think the stock goes up, then we report maybe this won't happen and others like instability, we actually our investors and of course, go on scene bc and bloomberg to say it's all good, like doesn't matter which way is happening.

Microwave is moving for a with sam alt men, which was very much his message and he kept saying, and I thought this was just the funniest thing he kept saying, irrespective of configuration, which just sounds like he was announcing plugin play device drivers, no matter irrespective of how your dip switches are set, like we will find this USB device, we will find some he's not wrong. IT doesn't matter what already put the cards in with PCI express for it's like respective configure. He just got saying IT IT was amazing.

So I think that was that right? Like we had because of our reporting, we had made IT clear like this isn't a done deal. And so I think he was compelled to go out and say, yeah, I actually don't know what's going on like it's gonna one way or the other.

But our investment in open I is safe because either we will take all of these employees at very high rates, which is a massive investment for microsoft to make to protect this investment or real find a way to keep working up. And that and they asked him, and was Emily in blumberg asked him, who will be the sea of opening tomorrow? And he looked exhausted and he said, that's where the board to decide.

I don't know. yeah. Oh, he did. He did on with care. Swisher and IT was. IT was, you know, I interview a lot of is sometimes CEO just have a thing they are going to say.

And he said the thing in all three places, but I know that what was happening there was the market thought that this thing was a done deal. And IT became quickly apparent that IT was actually not a done deal and actively trying to go the other way, which he did so, which in which in the end did. And microsoft seems very happy.

And sam, notably like tweed, my thanks to sauk a for his support. So I I think everybody wanted this to happen. And I think at one point, nadella said to care, emelia surprises are bad, like we don't want to be surprising this anyway, we will fix the governance of the company. So you've got the board of ves overseas, which again, I don't know who will be yeah, but he just feels what you want that to be Kevin Scott, your head of a, or maybe brad smith, the chief legal officer, like that what you want in that spot?

Just some pm.

but I don't think you I personally, do you not think you put such a there? yeah. Um I think you need a little bit of distance from the company to claim that you're not running the company.

So you put your famous hy profile CEO on this board. Now you ve just got another another part of microsoft, which I think microsoft wants to keep a little bit of that distance. That's what you know so far. Then there's a weird where alex he'd got a quick interview with, in mere morality, the former co, who is the first term CEO.

who is now the co.

Again, you just that was like the third of and you know, alex, that what I ask question, like why do you get fired and alexas this question in five times arrow and there is no answer to this question.

That continues to the kind of bath for me. I could understand why the board wasn't saying anything, but like why isn't he?

I don't know. We do know that a the board has been talking like I think Helen toner, remember, the board is talking to folks saying like we feel confident, our decision, all the stuff IT is abundantly clear that these ideas that that was about safety or that there was a new model that could destroy the world, do basic math. It's one of the other. It's do basic math to destroy the world.

same thing.

But like the notion that that spooked to the board and I had to get her to sam so they could put in their own person that none of that appears switch like no one on either side is saying this was the reason IT is IT really comes down to interpersonal conflicts between a group of people in saml man. And I think the board are basically things like they couldn't control him, and that whenever they tried, he would do something to get out of IT. And there will be an investigation. We are told I think the results of that investigation should likely be made public given the dollar amounts and investors and employees .

and we're onna find out .

and even for opening as employees, you need to make that investigation. And why did this happen to us, right? I think there's skii shines on both sides there and we'll see. And that's another job of this news board run by bret Taylor to run that investigation.

I think my question is if IT was something like we're upset that he he's moving too fast, he's being too commercial and which seemed from the from the beginning to be one of the issues there.

Particularly like his is conflict with Helen toner was particularly about that and how sh'd written a paper about that if if that's the case and they come back and they say we we found that was the reason why what what do they do? Because they now have a board that is very much for commercialization. They now have their biggest investor in an observers seat on that board. And the guy who was doing all of that that they had conflict with is now still sitting at the company, like what happens then.

But they're gone. They have wipe their hands with this, by the way that Helen turnt paper is is worth reading, will link to, and the changes or something, even the part that everyone is up. But apparently sam was up in arms about is SHE just points out that the industry had been very cautious until the success of ChatGPT. And then everyone started moving really fast and they had abandoned the caution in favor of whatever commercial comes secure. Cy.

which is exactly happened.

which is exactly what happened and IT gets actually really hard to read a criticism of open eye into IT. She's just like comparing contrast like we had very famously anthropic split from open hour safety concerns and they're like they waited but everyone else rushed yeah after we had our success that's true right?

Well, and what what's funny about that is there is a version of that story that I think is true that says OpenAI didn't do that on purpose, right? Like I think yeah what what microsoft with being was just ruthlessly capitalistic. They just sit like I got ta figure how to make money off this and that's that's what they did.

But like today, thursday as a recording, this is the one year university of the ChatGPT launch. And like the the thing we know beyond a shadow without at this point is that no one at OpenAI or microsoft or anywhere launched ChatGPT thinking IT was gonna over the world there is this like a Young term plan that everybody was on. And it's tone, if you rewind back to free ChatGPT and sort of asked a bunch of people of these companies what they thought the future of I was going to like, they all would have been more or less right, just wrong about the time line.

And then ChatGPT happened and everybody went, oh, crap, this stuff that we working on in the background towards this interesting long future we have to do today. And that's, that's a google date. IT was like that.

What was that? The code red within google? Sarga and Larry put up, microsoft starts running. Everybody just start running.

And IT did IT IT lit this fire in the tech industry that took IT down a bunch of, how do we make money off A I questions from people who have previously been saying, we have to do this carefully. We have to be thoughts about this. We have to be smart about this.

But IT all happened like by accident. It's the weird sort of twist of fate that IT wasn't like somebody launched the revolutionary products knowing that was the revolutionary product and I turned everything on a ted. It's just like somebody just like farted out a blog post and then the world change think it's nice.

Well, yeah, that's the ChatGPT side of IT, which is you should remain its pieces, the fastest growing consumer production we should reckon with IT. But you know such an no, I didn't look me in the eye and say google to know I made them dance yeah yeah. But he he was headed that way regardless.

right? Yeah, but I don't think he would have gotten their in february of twenty, twenty three.

I don't know he did make the giant investment right like this. It's it's hard to know. But like microsoft was doing copilot already, they're started doing the stuff in a very small way.

And I think the part of IT where the stack overflows of the world, we're just overrun with, oh, this is benefit. Just ask an an eye to do IT and that's a real thing that's going on. Yeah, maybe that would have happened anyway. But the sort of like i'll have to write my resume for me like just sort of like whatever going go on with l ms.

and you shouldn't, by the way, have IT write your resume.

You know.

IT who's need some great if it's going to fake chat, you shall if it's not.

do IT yeah maybe a good and that's actually the the party you rope's David, that I think is the most resident for me, which now we have these tools and everyone things are going to change everything I am personally still stuck at yeah but they are not very good yet like they're good at some things. Programing computer, everyone constantly telling me they're great at this in a way that is revolutionary.

And that's because it's korean computers effectively just delivering instructions, right? Make me a set of instructions, such as some input in the computer. Generate an output.

Yeah, that's a deterministic task. You can access an AI to IT many people have done before. The internet is full of this knowledge.

You can get there. Write me a new idea, something like inherently creative. I still think they fall down all the time. This is not on determined to test. They fall down all the time yeah and and I continue to point out there, all these sometimes are one copyright decision away from just not exist and that's writing like no one it's just like, well, this is not look at that time bomb yeah that seems yeah I love IT .

as a person who loves to do that sort of thing just been like, oh, i'm not onna worry about that for now blinders, someone go straight and no worry about .

that there is a great dr. The author and E F F. Actives been on the show few times, uh, really a really good thing this week that are are trying to basically saying he quoted this guy, leave insel, who talks about this concept of credit hype, which is basically taking the sort of truths that the most optimistic people, who are usually the people making products, believing that they're going to be right.

And then covering IT with health capes is the way he describes IT. So it's like talk about this world in which A I takes over everything in ruins. Everything assumes that A I is going to get as good as some of these people say that IT is, which they have a massive vested interest in doing. And so like it's the digital god thing, right? Like you just to talk about whether we think a digital god is a good idea or a bad idea is, is to assume that it's gonna happen and where there is just no evidence in the AI that exists now that we are headed toward that place anytime soon. And this is like what OpenAI talks about with the artifical general intelligence in agi in this idea that, like, we're on the brink of something that is like you're talking about me like creative and thoughtful and human and Better than I said everything and there's just no reason to believe right now in the world in that we live in that that's actually coming and it's like course piece was very even thinking about IT all week because it's like we have to criticize the thing that exists, not the thing that the people who make the thing exist. Promise us is coming .

someday soon well, and I think was really. Interesting about that is, is we ignores the stuff that that the harms and stuff like the actual concern you should have right now about IT, which is stuff we talk about all the time, how it's it's destroying the internet like that's happening right now. Yeah this second somebody is writing a having a right garbage in putting publishing on the website and and that gets totally ignored.

This week, sport illustrate got caught publishing A I generated seo affiliated garbage. Then then they took IT down and then they blamed the company. And like we didn't know they're using A I and then somebody looked up the company and link in and like literally the company and described as using A I and ml to do us philly because it's like and I think ad van commerce, the AI ml commerce company was probably going to use A I to make your commerce aren't le .

they actually ask A I, what company should be higher for this?

IT was the most circularly excuse in the world that's happening. Like story. Media institutions are chasing just the bottom of the barrel. S, E, O, content, yeah, in a way that will pollute google in well, in the internet, lots of sort of just like middle of level creatives are going to lose their jobs over the stuff at the place that is.

Now, David, your point about we can criticize what what's to come is like our oldest rule in reviewing products is your review what comes in the box yeah and when the company promises a software update will fix IT. You just we always say and let us know when that comes out. Yeah, we're not gonna this promise against the promise. Sorry sorry, here they just put out the next product yeah that's a great example actually. Yeah we're like we will not review a product against the promise of software update and hope feels like here's a new camera no software of .

states for .

you ah that's brutal yeah and so here we are with the l ms. And some of them are good and some of them bad. And like they all have different capabilities. But GPT four right now is not A A threat to the world.

Yeah, I read to bloggers.

Yeah.

just a threat to the people who make a file commercially .

and our abilities. You do functional google searches.

yes. Well, anything we're going to see IT like a youtube and we're seeing in to those other mediums too, right? Like just they believe you make to generate mass amounts of garbage into a world that is largely driven by algorithms that are prety disposed to that garbage, because their algorithms, and they think like computers, just the way this garbage being generated is like just this weird, gross snake eating its tail. And we all have to sit in.

I need, i'm assigning myself a story. So I have this idea that you can make a list of all of google platforms, and then you can make a list of all of google tools, and you can just draw line from one of the other. And well, here's the problem.

You know, like you can draw a line from the pixel camera using A I to do photos yeah to youtube. IT has a rule. It's like you need to disclose the AI in the in the video in you like, well, are you guys talked and they are no.

that should be the headlined. This is a column that you just scribe me like.

have these guys time? It's just literally dragging a line between any google platform and any google to all like google dogs now lets you do A I generated thing and you go talk to the the search shaping that do you know that I just like a big circle and like every part of google has this problem, which I think is ugly, fascinating but and that just one company that runs both platforms. Uh, another one, just this last week, the barred team extended boards such that you can just give you a youtube video and I will summarize IT for you. Like if if it's a recipe was I pull out the recipe, does the creator get a youtube view when that happens?

Does youtube .

know about does youtube know that's weird, right? Like the youtube is an economy like IT is the gold standard in creative platforms for people can make a living and boards like what if we just pulled everything off of IT and summarized the videos for people?

Little twelve olds watching, like reading at mr. Beest videos in barden.

now needs to start feeding mr. Beast videos to barden, like this is not a .

good use to return google summary city, unlike you just described the decoder series and and you know how much I love, have you guys talked? You just bring two people in and you just say, have you guys talked and then you just leave and it's like, it's like a big brother style. We were just record them with security cameras for an hour and activate.

It's perfect. Just if just us making different parts of google talk each other.

you could run that show for a decade.

This is one of my favorite stories about early verge. Just like us learning how to do, reporting how everything works in remember early version es like early in lifetime le, all these companies too yeah uh, so there is just one time where basically we told google that they had scheduled two events on the same day because they, because they hadn't thought and we we were babies.

So we are like, did you did you have the same? Is that okay? Is that how we Normally and there like, no, we have to talk to each other.

Like are we in trouble? But now they google so they can throwing that. The two teams didn't talk and they hit both scheduled events in the same day.

No boy, and was us. We had told them, yeah, it's very good. Uh, have you talked the extension of decode a coming soon to podcast play? I wish take a break.

We going to come back. We're do you letting. This episode is brought to you by google geri with the german I APP. You can talk alive and have a real time conversation with an A I assistant.

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right? We're back with the cybernetic lightning around. Sponsor been new. This could be you and looking directly at you advertisers by not sponsoring the lightning round. You are black me.

Stop IT. You know.

the woke e mine viruses overtaken america, and that's why the lightning and doesn't not have a sponge.

And that's the first cast, possibly forever.

Very good. I just got um okay.

So I am going to continue a theme of talking a little bit of board room boardroom drama.

David is favorite.

Yeah, David, get excited. Okay, but this one is fun because it's disney. And what actually happens here could really affect disney because so there's an activist of vector. His name is Nelson pelt, and he is really good friends with I pro matter. And pro matter used to run marvel back in the day, and he got fired .

earlier this year.

Another guy with ideas, and he boy does he have a lot of ideas. He was like, we don't need women, not a friend of them ah yeah you know he he didn't want .

a black one movie.

He didn't want to capt, the marble movie, a black panther movie, he didn't think any that works. Seems like, you know you can need just strap in Young White guys out there .

learning something else. But like promoter.

we are yeah interesting. But they are very good friends. I was fired earlier this year from disney by bob baggar. They they are not friends. Nelson peltz h is an activist investor trying to get two board seats on the disney board because he's matter at everything.

And the disney board is like you just want to bring eke back and all the voting shares you're using like seventy eight percent of the voting shares you're using our ix voting shares? no. So so there's a little fight there.

And right now there is ammunition. There is a lot of garbage. Bob igor was also that deal book conference and he talked about IT and he was like, yeah, captain marvel didn't work because we didn't have enough like essentially adults in the room.

We didn't have enough executives watching over this. We ve been making bad films. In the case of the marvels, IT was really interesting to hear him say that, given that there were a lot of reasons that movies struggled yeah, box office down across the board this year.

there was a struggle.

couldn't promote the move.

they just straight up, couldn't promote the movie, and in private was like, yeah, had a mess. I was a messy production. They did have to go back and to a hope and to reach ot. And the third the back third of the film is like not as good as the .

first two part .

that like IT is true. But also they have been releasing a toner garbage for the last few years. Fatigue is set in. And so for them to be like, oh, that one just didn't work because we didn't try hard enough was really interesting for him to say. And so now is, I don't worry, we're gona try harder. And that's not what you need to be saying when you've got activist investors breathing down your neck, particularly activist investors who think it's a mistake that you've made all these films starting.

you know, in the mix right with check back. So got your dool in bobs. yeah.

See a bob eggar. He ends IT out to shape out the pandemic hits. He doesn't like how shape is running anything. He brings himself back.

brings him self .

back but in there in somewhere in there right now, son pelts shows up and like causes trouble for disney along the way.

Yeah because he's been friends with eke for this whole time. So he's been really supportive of eke and and support of like kind of eyes way of doing things. And and so he's he's really wanted to sit on that board, just wanted to maintain a seats on that board. And and he and I er don't like each other and and we saw that the deal book conference and was kept sing him tell me about pts, what's gone on to him he don't worry about IT, it's fine, really blow in him off there. So it's going be really interesting to see how they go about this. And I think IT is very concerning when you have the largest media company in the world and you've got these guys who are have a really strong reputation for not liking half of the population of the world, wanting to go back and wanted to seed at the table to dictate kind of how that accompany ting Operates and including the kind of films they make for me as as a woman, not my favorite thing to see, but it's happening. So we'll see how that lies is also true.

I I mean agree with you, but IT is also true. Dizzy is not doing great.

That's true to the disney is not doing great and there lot of reasons for that. I really likes to put everything on chapel and I think that's stupid.

Yeah, that clock has run out. And yeah.

he's been back way too long for that. I think there is a lot of problems with that company and and and there is a lot of different reasons for that. I saw a really great story the other day about how disney plus was kind of like antithetical to the way that disney is always done business because disney business has always been circular.

Every single thing builds gets you to go buy something else that disney makes, right? And when you put sudenly everything in one spot, why, why are you going anywhere else? It's a great deal for us.

The consumer is a terrible deal for disney. And disney is going to figure out a wait out of that and their ideas, okay, we're we're going to put more into our parks. We're going to we're going to make them bigger.

We're going to make the more fun, make them more accessible. They changed the whole lot of the rules there to like kind of get all those Parkers happy again because that was one of the things check back really screwed up. Was he pissed off all of those in the Prices? Yeah, raised the Prices.

He changed like how you could get into the park and stuff like that. So like eggs got a lot of work to do, and I don't think he's moving fast enough interest. I think he is. He's GTA move a lot faster and he's also gotto start like letting off the reins. And more importantly, like trusting your directors, trusting your writers, trusting the creatives you hire to do their job.

The fact that he was like, oh yeah, we just didn't have enough executives watching over the marvels is a wild statement to make because one of the big reasons that marvel has been struggling is that there's one guy at the top can vague and stretched too thin and he was like, kind of he had a my test touch. He could fix anything and he can't fix everything like delegate my man. So there needs to be .

a lot more deletion. I had IBM head of quantum computing on the court this week. I don't know that it's going.

And do you think of those amman movies just like. brutal. And Jerry shi, watching this, I would say, is a person who was just a dizen world.

Yeah, they have not lowered the Prices。 My friend, I bought a thirty five dollar bubble one. And boy, did we not get thirty five dollars. You got got think uh not even a little bit no um also is the world uh very entertaining because um you know people from all walks of life for there yeah and there is a monorail which is like public transit and washing big people in maga hats like happily ride the train is like very entertaining and like this train doesn't work nearly as well is IT should like really does that really that is I would describe IT. My sister and my sister is like a disney adult and he can like work .

the APP and he knows the vocation .

was incredible. No adult should ever say to another adult, have you checked your, my, jennie plus that should .

not happen.

but IT does .

when you but you're like, oh, this is, this is the most like, incredible technocratic, the liberal bureaucracy in the world. Like if you can work the system, the world is your oyster. There's a shine of light corruption that makes everything a little exciting. Yeah, you know, like is broadly Cooper here to see you have to stand in the mind.

Did you get the? Did you get the little band?

We have the band. The band flew off my risk during guardians of galley, and I caught IT. That is, by the way, one of the best world, because everyone in my tire life.

And then I, somehow I lost the band during parts of the carbon, which is a slow boat ride. No idea. No, no.

Like a special no idea how I lost IT.

Everyone and I caught IT during guardian's very good, loved every minute of IT. But bax is happy.

So they make you a guardian. If you catch IT in mid air, there's just like Chris brack comes out and he's like you.

No, that's how the right starts is your guardian .

and basically, no, no, yeah, there's no. It's like it's a ride. There's a story.

The thing is the story comes to its conclusion during the roller coaster. Well, everyone is screaming in their blasting eighties music at you. perfect. So I have no idea what I wrote IT twice and I like what happens .

the first time I wrote IT. Um I was maybe really enjoying IT IT was, you know kind of in April twenty eighth kind of day for in .

the magic kingdom .

I was in the magic kingdom and I didn't enjoy you very much because I spent the entire time being like, what if my glasses fly? I just fit like this in the video of me was just holding .

my glass just more careful on yeah second .

time I .

just didn't wear IT IT was good in the track around was good IT was fun. But you're just like in this place where, oh, this is what this we want. The taxes are very high. The services are available, but somewhat mediocre.

Sometimes they just Carry .

to work this APP. You can get health insurance. Yes, like.

disney was really good help.

I was not the most fun at this runs. Like, yes, we understand that you have ideas about motives, but IT is very fun. We had a good time. And the um enterprise wifi in network uh is uh w and dash T W D C, which IT has been apparently for over a decade.

Um it's like this every disease property and disease mpl yees we're posting on threads at me that IT is so cover some of the install network devices and they're they can get on the corporate network instead of using the b pn. All very good. I like to think that disney world has so many devices in the life.

They can never change the network, man. Like they have to walk around the entire park locating the reset button. All very good.

I David, what's you're letting around? That was fine. I'll to do that.

I just think I went to disney world.

Yeah ah very, very. I just like i'm now imagine the line with like a sixteen and macbook pro, just like sitting in line for a roller coaster .

waiting for open eye, used to break a real thing that I thought I was going happened.

yeah, have you ever .

been .

on the phone with a source? Is this going to get wrapped up tonight? Because I feel got a disney world.

a cool line. Honestly, I support IT. Uh, mine is just to, as I occasionally do, implore every website and APP and person on earth to do your version of spotify wrap.

So sort of raft came out this week. This is the week of, like everybody gets their year in review stuff. Youtube music at apple music did IT has redit come out yet? Redit does one every year.

I haven't seen mine. I don't know IT spotify is out. Pocket cast, my podcast apted one all kinds of coming out. This is my favorite genre of thing on the internet.

I saw somebody who just posted one that was like a screen shot of their chrome history, just showing all the way pages they go to the most. Like, my browser should have this. I want my email to show me. Like who I email.

The more could your browser have this.

IT does like IT or not like IT has that information. And I just will show to me in a funny way I just think everything that exists like mike I want like google calendar wrapped at the end of every year, just tell me depressing .

and all that .

like David hood .

you talk to about and slack most this year. Oh, like to do that. That would I should be great.

This is what I say, didn't like you to I feel like they're to be aware you could just see like who talks to both.

You know, this is like a weird enterprise privacy nightmare or debate. We're like your slack administrator can see you who that the biggest user of sack was in your organization is the company. Oh, you the company?

You don't have privacy? No, no, no, no.

Not in the workplace. No, no, no, no, no. yeah.

Shut IT down my last.

my real life, and I did.

which is not about my way.

technocratic new liberal nightmare of disney world. Uh, no, it's uh, the epic versus google trial. Ah so the epic versus google and a trials going that again is about fortnight and billing on APP stores.

This is the sequel to the apple one. We mention this to in the while, we are covering the apple one. I think we mentioned this show since then.

Apple case was very straight ward. Apple doesn't allow all the APP stores they require use their billing system. This whole thing, there's no emails except apple executives being like this is stupid.

Go away. And so like epi C2Concoct the ent ire cas e abo ut app le and its mon opoly wal k, you can believe they are not google and ecosystem provider. They have lots and lots of deals, have lots and lots of relationships.

They have hardware vendors. If harbor vendor differentiate their products, there is a ton of evidence about how google make deals in this case and how people try to make deals with google. And IT is not pretty.

And I think that's like the thing that we have learned throughout this entire case and without the d oj case with the google is google does a lot of deal making. So the one that came out this week that is, I think, really, really revealing is activision try to start its own mobile game APP store on android. So activision proposed with epic and with the company that makes clash of land super solid, they would start their own APP store on android, you would be steamed for android, and they call this project boston.

And they were running IT with one track, and they had another track with google that was just give us a hundred million dollars, we won't do this. And google just paid them the money because they don't want composition for the abstract and android. And you can link our story.

There's all these emails about IT and whether they really going to do IT, whether google was really afraid of IT, but google paid them the money to forecast the competition and that there's just a lot of that in this case because there are so many companies in the android ecosystem trying to get leverage over one another in google sitting in the middle. You can put that right next to, hey, you know, apple maps is pretty good lately. great.

Like apple had to build a competition to google maps for all kinds of reasons, and they made a really good one. And there's a lot of conversation lately about how would a superior to google maps. And I think if you would live in the right places, particularly for drive interactions returned by turn vastly super .

to google maps, it's really good now.

okay. Well, if happen wants to make a competitor google product, they can definitely do IT, yes, and they definite have the install base to do IT in. Google does not want that to happen to search and pays apple of the, and you can put that right next to blood that we might start an APP store. And google said, uh, we don't want to do that, paid them the money and we're just I I don't want to tell you like I think most people think that the world they live in is not done by handshakes in background deals or maybe they do. Now baby Jenny is wiser to the .

way what they all watch hamilton, so they all .

know remote or suits both. If you want to know how the world works, shows those .

the two shoes core to the current.

No, I think I think there has been, at least on the internet, the idea that the net is democratizing, the the distribution is free and open and equal. And then you get to these APP stores, you get these mobile platforms, and that is instantly broken down. Yeah, so read that on the site.

IT is is great, really, really illuminated and coverage about how all the stuff works. And then when the trials over, we will have shown on, and he can synthesize what he has learned. But IT is, like glee, full coverage .

in the quarter. And from shot this one USB. Google was so locked down and so rejected, and so carefully in everything that anyone revealed about anything.

This one is the opposite. They're just like everybody is just throwing sign contracts like into the wind. Every morning in the court room, you really get the sense of the discovery process. Here has been A A joyful one for a lot of people. Yeah.

i'm really just bed. I haven't come up with an idea that google pay me .

not to do honestly. I really feels like if you just go like park your car in google, parking a lot and just start going, maybe i'll open an apps or someone will just like fire of money can and into your car.

Yeah, that out. Yeah, yeah.

You know what? What .

interesting by that point there IT is, you know, U S B, google, the, its, its government, an anal case. They need to be button up. They were in a very butter up courtroom.

The united right now have a great history of pursuing these cases are a lot of pressure on them. They're making very complicated argument about search locking. Epic is just like f for yourself.

Like straight up like that is tim is attitude towards this is a more vision frame as well as an economic one. And then you have the ecosystem that is never happy with these players in a constant looking for every little to leverage. And you can you write the tenor of this case is very different because epic is already got.

They have nothing to lose. You get the definite sense that even if they lose, they are prepared to loose, having landed a bunch of punches against google. And that is that is pretty clearly the tactic here. And so far, I think it's working like I don't know, still win the case. But boy, have they made google look bad over and over and over here.

yeah. What's interesting to me is a person who looks at how our website is doing is when they are up against apple. Like every one of our stories was ahead and here with google, with the evidence that the store, the chinese of foot, and we we have to sell the stories little bit harder.

And I I think that just speaks to honestly, how many people have iphones s or how many people care about how android works. But I will remind you that android is the most used Operating system on the planet. And how google manages that affects basically how computing is done.

So like all these little sancian have like massive downstream effects across the entire android ecosystem because of google. Stop making money in this way, their case, for making android, the open source Operating system, goes a little sideways. So i'm allegedly that you should read transworld.

IT is very fun. I enjoy catching up on that every day. This is why we invented stories, dreams with like the quick, like it's all happening and we will have on the conclusion and try, which should be soon. I think we have shown on to talk about, yeah, we've gone on. I got to go through rocks at a triangle.

but not too hard. I want to get arrested.

I'm watching the social video team make comparison videos with the metal ball versus the base is very good, takes stock and look at that. I thank you to everybody who's been posting about your spotify rapped with the verge, ham with decoder. We love IT.

We have also got a lot, a lot of emails from people telling us what spot if I rap, which is great. We love IT. Uh, our hot line up and actually k David's buying advice.

you were doing a whole. We got a bunch of questions kind organically from people who are like, i'm trying to figure what to buy or trying to buy this thing or thing. So we're going to do a home to those. We're just going to grab a one of folks and sit around and try to help people buy stuff for the holidays so if you have holiday questions, email us verge cast diversion I com, which you can do about all of your feelings in general but also buying questions uh, or call the hotline IT sex first one, send the mall and organize are .

a whole bunch of an unless I.

And that's arrive for verge cast this week.

Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at eight, six, six verge one one. The verge cast is a production .

of the virgin box media podcast network. The show is produced by Andrew marino and liam James. This episode was mixed, edited by and Adams, and that's IT.

I'll see you next week.

Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud. Hey, it's lee. From the koto with new IP top, we spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buying? And most importantly, what are they doing with the and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech can hire away cofounder? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with the litel presented by strike. You can listen to decoder whatever you get your pocket.