The great Pixel 8 camera debate
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How I look into your chest, the flagship podcast of extra large cup symbol? Ls, yeah.

you never know you need one know.

you always know you need one, which is always, yeah, like, here's what happened before I started to show David held up his new embers mog, which is dragani it's huge it's so big IT .

wit so much IT was so much more to to hold enough just now .

our own James, when is currently in book? Leave again here an entire book called beyond measure about the, but essentially the politics and culture of measuring things. This is one of the virgie's verge ideas that anyone ever had.

It's obvious you should go. This book, it's called behind measure. IT and IT occurred to me as we were talking about David's comically large electric cup. That's what IT is, let's be honest that I have no idea how much a cup of coffee is like not Price, like volume, right? And David point at me that the word cup has a third additional secret meeting in the context of coffee.

yeah. So when you when you have a coffee maker and you see the lines on the side that's like this many cups of coffee, you would think that would be like a cup, like a measuring cup cup. It's not it's a coffee cup, which in most cases is defined to be either five or six sounds. So what you're getting is not eight cups measured by mugs or eight cup with measured cups. You're getting eight cups by this random measure of a tiny amount of coffee that no .

one actually want. This is another book.

a whole other book. how?

How is this OK the problem with the history of europe? How was that a bunch of kings got to invent a bunch of right and knowledge to live in their world? King hero is like, I don't know if this, whatever all i'm saying is you should get extraordinary, the biggest coffee cups you can, the biggest mugs.

And then we bought gigantic balls in our new house. They're so big, they make an average amount of soup. Look like not a lot .

of soup have consumed a lot of food.

You move in a new place. You're like what large format food when we acquire. So we don't have to think about this for the next several weeks.

When you fill up with ice cream, is there any ice cream left in the carton?

I prefer not to answer this time.

this next day they look like. So my wife and I hate cereal, as a lot of people do, and her definition of a bow of cereal is just whatever the size of the recepticle is. So like if you her like a relatively small human sized ball, she'll fill IT with the new Normal amount.

Teri OS puts a milk in and move on with her life. If you give that woman like a bucket sh'll fill the bucket with eri's and be like, this is a serving of cherise. So like, I love a big ball.

Is there IT? They're Better than plates at everything, including just everything is just all the things. But if I give my way for large ball SHE will you will eat like a deadly amount of chariots. And I can't do this.

I want to know there's a trend in plate where where the the plates are becoming balls. And like their half polls, there's a designer out there who invented this, who's furious that they're being wicked. Ed.

off fiesta ir my fiesta bells.

we said the word fiesta. Okay, we ve got to stop this. There's actual technical. I'm just saying, if you want to write the inside story of how plates are becoming balls, there is but one publication that would be like, yes.

this belongs to us. And if their temperature regulated like my eber mug, all the Better.

If your balls have wifi in them, call me. There's a lot of technical this week, by the way, i'm your friend ni. Hello.

David pierce is here. Hi me and my mug. We're both here.

Electric mugs. I drink the coffee too fast. I want to be. I ve always wanted a number mug, and there is just no hope .

for on the opposite. I drink the first five ships really fast, and then the last two thirds, six and a half hours later. This is why this thing is perfect for me.

Now, trance is here. yeah. So I still thinking, the festival balls, there's huge. I've ve eaten so much.

the radioactive ones.

the old ones. Okay, I don't think my are very good. We'll see in a couple of the months.

if you don't know why I just said, is to the radio actual ones. That's a little google adventure for you to get on. That's a little wikipedia hole that you could fall down on a service we provide here on the vercheres stuffed google.

You don't have a great time. Welcome to our newest segment, how to google about old plates. There is a lot of tech news this week like, uh, absurd amount of techniques.

There are some philosophical quanta ies, a bunch of people are mad me and instagram threads for suggesting that words have meanings. It's a lot. There's just a lot going on.

There is a pixel event that had injured fourteen. The pixel watched two in pixel buds. Price of every streaming service is going up and the actors are still on strike.

Lots going on there. And then we have a deeply hilarious slightly around just of things, just people continuing to make choices. We should obviously start with the pixel, David.

what happened in this? And sure. So this event, as ever with google recently, has been absolutely bleed to death. So we kind of knew what was going on coming in, but basically we got two new funds, the pixel eight in the pro, which have a lot in common but are differentiated, especially along camera lines.

It's a little bit like the way apple does IT put google spit in a bunch ways that I don't think make a lot of sense. But anyway, new tensor chips, Normal sort of upgrades of the time, the screens, carpets on the a pro. But the camera is the thing.

And we're going to talk a lot about camera that now we also got the pixel watch two, which seems to have much longer, Better, Terry, which is awesome. IT seems to also have Better performance, which is exciting. This seems like kind of the pixel le watch.

We knew google was gonna after the first one, which is last year as cool. First try like call us when you've sort to finish the job. This one feels potentially closer to having finished ed the job that has some good safety features, new sensors.

I think a heart rate thing for the first time, uh, are some like zone training in your heart rate, which is a good thing. And then the other one is, if i'm not mistaken, not new pixel buds ds pro, but new features for the pixel bud's pro. Some cool software stuff to make your calls sound Better.

There's the conversation ducking thing, which is like when you start talking, it'll lower the volume and turn on transparency, which I hate and think above everyone to turn off because IT doesn't work on anything is a disaster of future. Cool idea, bad future. Hopefully we've got IT right and some blue two super White band, which is obviously thing we have to talk about today on the first cast.

And yeah again, just a bunch of new software stuff coming. And I feel like software was sort of the story of this event, like still makes phones and still makes watches and still makes headphones, but is increasingly taking all of the stuff that happens on those devices and moving IT somewhere else. A lot of the camera stuff that happened is not happening on the camera, is happening in google photos, and that's not nothing.

And there's a lot of clouds stuff happening. And they talked a lot about assistant with bard and android fourteen came out. It's getting generated. A iced of like google is really lived into this idea that I can basically make you a decent piece of hardware with a whole lot of stuff happening in the cloud and that that's the correct baLance from now on. And i'm deeply fascinated to see if that turns out to yeah.

And this is obviously the flip of apple's approach. Everything is happening locally in the film, in the phone processors, the fastest processors in human history, and how dairy even suggested other processors or may be faster, anytime you nothing faster, do you know to make the iphone pro pro really good games?

Great tracing, very .

confusing.

Google is always kind of walk this line, right? How much is happening in the phone? How much is happening on a google service? You know, people in train all the home screens lately. And I think, David, somebody shared one to you and me on threads, and that was the entire homework. Reen was google apps and you are like, you know, android exact.

but not that a coworker.

S no, I mean, i'm sure it's many coworkers of us are like that, but I think google recognizes this, that a lot of people of iphone that are just vessels of google services and google can just sell you a phone that is that thing yeah.

I will say IT doesn't .

give me great confidence in google wanting to continue to make harbour for a long time, but I already didn't have great confidence in that.

So whatever I can feel like we need to start in by we google not I think we are pretty realistic about IT be realistic about the fact that these are always gonna be like the surface, it's always the device to show om is what they can do with the the stuff that's available in the software available.

I disagree with fight .

me and I .

think that might have been I think we've through fifty rounds of what is a pixel le phone for that's what the nexus line was for yeah a piece of reference hardware billion years ago that might have been with the first pixel phones or four. But there's only one O E N in android world that matters. That's fair right? There's samsung. Ah yeah and so I think the idea that google needs to show samsung how to do IT is just not reality. I think google needs to show samsung that a samsung screws up or subset of line that IT will go and get the marketing deal with for icon.

But did you do that?

Well, I think I think samsung and one.

okay, wait me, I go with me here. Google is to samsung. What being is to google a substantially successful both to try and be a good product, but mostly as a check on the other thing, just saying, if you blow IT, we will come for you.

Yeah only the slight difference is that if something doing exist, android would not be as important as IT is. Yeah, that's fair. At least in this country, in europe, in india and africa, like Andrea is a big deal all in its own.

Like my favorite about the indian part from market is like fourteen phones get released every single week. And people in android there is expressed very differently, like android is globally important, whether or not samsung does IT in this country. And IT doesn't exist with that samsung, that which is just at least smartphones.

That's crazy, right? And I think a lot of the pixel is there to just repeatedly show samsung, hey, we can do to right? And so if you pull if you put ties in on your phone, which you've threat to do, or you skin the phone too hard, which they have done. And like there's a little history there, google there. So I think the pixel is just different.

So you're saying the pixel is basically google just staring samsung in the eye and saying .

try IT like just I think .

they also need a vessel .

for their services. They want to show people what would be like. They also want to compete head on with apple, right?

There's there's a lot there. But what is the thing that accomplishes the most? It's not sales.

right? true.

Uh, IT is a lot of interest from phone nerds. IT is crazy to me. The disproportionate amount of traffic we get on pixel coverage verses samsung verage. yeah.

And I think that's why I think of IT like the surface devices because it's the same thing like people care about the surface services in the way they do not care about assume unless it's .

hearing in court.

But yeah like like that's that's really because people really passionately like the google devices, but its a very small group of people according to the sales yeah yeah that in the answer.

but we're fully into document. This is the thing with document pixel. It's more fun to talk about the concepts in the ideas embedded in the pixel line.

Then the phones.

there was cool stuff this time. I don't know. I mean, the thing that really stuck out to me was how much the people who were otherwise prime to like a phone like this did not like IT this year, like typically the overwhelming reaction seen.

I'm sure this is not sure everybody and i'm sure they're people who excited bad. And and I think there are cool things worth getting excited about but like a bunch of people on like the android blogs were mad about the the sort of perceived lack of interesting stuff google did here. Our commenters were not sad about this in a big way.

The general feeling of this launch that I got was a lot of people kind of being like this, like this. They seem like fine phones, but like that that all you got, and I kind of agree, like google made a good phone here. That really doesn't seem to make a particularly interesting case for itself outside of some of the camera stuff.

And they also raised Prices by one hundred box.

Yeah, it's it's like a boring looking phone, extraordinary ly boring. But that the magic editor thing is cool.

right? The camera is such a six. I know I wanted .

just go talk about.

can you just read the specs of the phone? So we've done, we've done our of sure I can do this. okay.

So main things to know, the pixel starts at seven hundred rocks. The pixel pro started thousand dollars. They brought android fourteen.

The pixel eight has a six point two inch screen. The pix late pro has a six point seven in screen. That's also a little Better. Twelve x RAM on the pro.

Eight gigs RAM on the eight more store adoptions in the high end on the pro you can get, I think, five twelve in a terrible yt, which you can get on the pixel. They both have U, S, B, C. They both do more face unlock stuff than they have in the past.

Which thing is interesting? Google, like letting you do more with face unlock, but didn't really explain if he has made face lock unlock more secure, which I thought was interesting. A million outrageously complicated differences in the camera. Alice and Johnson made a spread sheet of which features are coming to which that even now IT doesn't make any sense. But basically, the pro has four cameras that you can use.

IT has the fifty megaplex el main camera forty eight maka pigs are ultrawise forty eight make a pixel telephoto and the ten and a have make a pixel Cameron the front, the pixel IT has the same main camera to elma pixel ultrawise no telephoto and the same self. I can. And then again, there's a millions software features fundamentally to pick late pro is like a dramatically Better phone in the way that I think it's kind of like comparing not like the iphone pro in the prom x, but it's kind of like comparing the base iphone to the iphone pro max.

It's like none of the things versus all of the things. And it's a three hundred of the Price difference, which I balize that. But that's essentially to run down like they have the same chip, which has been very important to google to have all of the stuff kind of on the same generation of tensor as much as possible to do the A, I, if they want to do.

But now IT just gets rochal c from there. A, and they come in a bunch of cool colors that are actual colors, like google didn't do the thing apple did and just put like one drop of color die near the phone and call that a color they actually cover. The phone is very exciting.

So we talk about the camera.

talk about the camera, and neither you were listening .

to that where you were just sitting, they're going, shut up. I can talk about the camera.

I get IT. I was reading along.

And if we don't say the spect, like when I was a little baby as a blogger, I was told, just get the specks in the Price out of the way, and you can say what everyone, but if you don't deliver those up front, people are going to get mad because all anybody cares about. So I have the best of the Price. I of the camera.

mac, mac.

uh, so this is like a this is, I think, a watershed moment in these cameras and IT isn't at all the same time. And I I want to be clear that there's attention here because of what David said earlier. The features are built into google cloud services in their apps.

But the way they are marketing this camera, the way they're showing IT off on stage, the the thing they wanted to think you can do is like to you like there's no other word for IT. The camera has generative A I tools not built into IT, but parked on the front line. sure. You know I mean, it's like it's it's they're not the same. They're not it's not in the house yeah you know it's .

like a photoshop.

but you can open the window and yellow the general. I too, and I will definitely hear you eventually, the gap is going close.

You're talking about magic editor, right? Like essentially, there's lot of features.

but that's the one that's the one in an in particular imaging or the one I am talking about is the one where you can take a bunch of frames of people altogether and IT will assemble a composite.

You can pick the faces of the people that, like, I don't care if you lot of you call the sky st, you know, like, whatever screen yeah, the skies Green, you crazy no, like you have all the bright you you move to salt shaker from the left to the right of the picture. That's great. I'm glad that happened for you. You know, B, E, R artist, you start changing the way people look at each other in photos. You are playing with fire, like in the realest way.

You like your kidding about the line there, but actually think the line there is really important. I want you to teeth out why that bothers you in the way that the sky doesn't. Because if if your fundamental problem is these cameras and their editing software, let you lie about what you're seeing in front of you.

I think that's like slightly sort of chicken little sky is falling, is about the world. But also like I can understand that take I can also understand the take that just says most people take photos of their family and would like everyone to be smiling. And that's basically fine.

I can also see that. But you're trying to find this middle that I don't necessarily know how to find where it's like changing certain things is fine. Are you O K with the thing where you can like move stuff over in the scene where like if you shot them off center, you can slide them over on the bench to be in the center. Like where does this go from? Silly changes to like you're lying to me.

Uh, I mean, first of all, it's like to t like did this actually happen? Is now a thresh hold question for smart phone photography. If you look at a photo that came off a smart phone, a good question you can ask is, did this happen? Did this look this way? sure.

We even doing what is a photo on the show since for years now, since the first pixel, since that was the iphone eleven, that was the first one of the H D R. Look kind of bad in like we've been talking about what a photo is for a long time, because that what most people believe a photo to be is you open a shutter, a bunch of light hits, a sensor of the shutter closes. And that's the end of that.

right? And the the goal is how accurately did this capture reality? That's the that's the metric of success.

right? And there's a whole other brand of photography and we can get into IT. It's like very creative where you are trying to minute light and textures and the posing people, like all the stuff has happened.

You are doing wild that it's in photoshop. But the the thing that we rely on photography to be is an accurate representation of light in a moment. And then I remember to seeing long or short.

You can do long exposure, but whatever it's like this light occurred, like these things happened. And you get your place with computational patera. where? Where is that? Even now, before you start moving faces around with AI, we're like, man, we're like right at the boundary of this.

I think I think know where the boundaries is. I think I think I got IT think so. We've always been able to mani manipulate photos, right?

Like you've been able to manipulate photos since the first person took the photograph were they were putting ferries in photos in eighteen hundreds and say, yeah, the real ferries and I know it's a person wearing I was stupid out for what that's always a shocking, I know, but that's always been there. But the IT was hard to do, right? Like in order to do the stuff that you can now do on a phone in photoshop.

twenty years we no back up. You are to, you are to make the R U. Tic googles making, which is like we just made the tool .

more accessible, the accessibility .

itself, the line. No, I saw you. That's like what google is saying, right piece. I just want to back up for second. Even if you stop moving faces around, the thing that we are doing now with basic HDR and phones, we are doing complicated exposure stacking. To make things look Better is right on the bully edge of the line because I never looked that way right.

Like in like the goal is to make IT like look even or even at the tones or expose everything evenly and like that's how your eyes we're in like this is a very philosophical, very much like very verge cast conversation about like, okay, it's a photo. And like it's not maybe not what you saw or maybe not what old film looked like. And we've had mark of away from a pixel team on the show talking about what artists the pixel was meant to evoke in every year, the art like we've done IT.

And that's just exposure. We've done years of conversation about computational exposure, manipulation and what that means for photography in that smart H D. R. In the iphone that's pixel computational photography in all of that is just boy, should there be shadows and photos and literally years of conversation about the blurry line of computational photography, an exposure and I still don't know the answer like I I I think that's a very subjective.

I think you know he hit the mainstream of the new york how chick a had a piece in the new yorker about iphone photos not looking real and they're being backlash against IT. That's crazy that just exposure, computational manipulation of exposure. OK is now a mainstream conversation about what photography means so that that the line already is blurry before we get to adding three, eighteen hundreds.

Yeah, now i'm going to tell you that inside the new phone, inside the pixelate, IT is marketed in having a where you can take a bunch of shots. IT won't just stack exposure. IT will change people's faces at your direction to create a reality that never existed. I just like a thing that never happened.

and I still see that as photoshop. I still see that is the exact same fine.

But this is where the accessibility, this is where your thing about accessible IT comes. That okay, fine. That's photoshop. But the camera is market IT is that thing. So I spent the morning on the train in coming up with a very silly examples.

Go through.

look very silly.

I'm so I talk about ferries.

It's okay. okay. You are at a chief game and you see the box with Taylor swift and ran Randalls and brake lively and whoever else huge cannot raise .

huge in from this, please.

He he is there, right? okay? He looks like try to cause he's going to score, touch something they're sharing with any fumbles and they're said, all right, well, now you can just treat the faces so you got happy hue, happy ryan, happy Blake, sad Taylor.

But I can do that in photoshop.

You can do that in photoshop, but you wouldn't like the accessibility is the thing like now you can lie more easily right off your phone and send IT, right? okay. Should there be some norms about whether or not that tools be widely available to to anyone?

I think there should .

be built into the camera, should be so close to the camera that the camera is marketed. The line is best take uses the photos you did take to get the photo you thought you took. That is the marketing of this camera, that is the positioning of this camera.

And it's like, yes, you can do anything in photo you can done one hundred years ago in a photoshop. But the effort to do IT, the effort to lie was high and was a barrier entry. So lowering the barrier entry to now they are not photos or just memories.

And we all know how fable memories are. So, oh, you're going to change the very nature of to make IT so you can trust any pictures. And in my my mentions ons on threats, it's a lot of people saying where you could never trust pictures.

See.

that's where I am there. When I say it's a watershed moment in cameras, this is the camera that is making people say, you cannot trust pictures.

I don't think that I think there was a bunch of memes about sharks swimming through the streets of houston that said, I can never trust pictures.

but those people were like, but that is like, so obviously silly. Yeah, yeah. This is like the camera is that IT will be sold to you, so that when you take a bunch of frames of your family, IT will synthesize a thing that never happened by design.

And that is a selling point of the camera. Let me off in the market will not correct this. The market will say that's great because I want Better photos.

I just feel very .

like let me offer you this other very silly example. I love IT, and this is like based on a mean that I saw today. Seit, it's really bad.

You're going to, can you prety forgive me for this? Okay, it's a camera. Uh, and IT takes a photo and just the photo.

The process is the photo and throws the original photo away. yeah. And it's god, you can never recover that photo. You, the other end, everyone in your photo just has huge boobs. The market buys this game is the most successful camera in human history.

I would do that. All the everyone's got big nature. Boy, I think you might .

have some siders look IT doesn't matter. My point is the market does not reject this camera like the people of the united states, like that's the camera we .

want yeah because big natural SHE is right.

right.

Maybe I should have .

agreed not to get mad at you.

I yes, sorry, David. Do you think like .

if you just think about this, people want lies. They want pleasing lies.

I didn't really .

ze IT gets .

her to .

the old photo.

Like, no, this is my hypothetic. okay? You scribe want there are like four honey teenagers on the internet who would be sacked to.

But there's a kick starter for that camera right now, I guarantee. And I want to cut all saying is if, but the market isn't going to correct for truth, I am at an example because it's silly, honey. I wanted to react to my favorite idea.

But like in general, in the information ecosystem, we are in the the market. The free market is not like truth is important to us. It's more like pictures of sharks, right? And so now you you've made this thing.

Google has made this thing. The company that wants to organize the world's information has made a camera or right next to camped out on the front line marketing the phone with we will synthesize pictures that never happened IT never happened. We are onna make you images that never occurred without a second and how that might be completely sideways for them.

I mean, they're not just doing IT with photos though, right? Like they're doing IT across the barber generative A.

I but this is like when you talk about the AI apocalypse, yeah like the AI misinformation apocalypse is right on the front door. It's on youtube. Deep fix are on youtube.

And at the same time, the argument is, well, we're just making these tools are already available. We're just making them widely accessible to everyone. It's like, yeah, letting people lie scale is actually, I know. Have you been around the past five?

Ten is something great. It's very funny to watch this happen as you see companies like OpenAI start to deliberately pull back on the thing that their stuff can do like yeah OpenAI put out the the image recognition thing.

You you can output a picture to ChatGPT and it'll try to start to guess what you want from IT inquiry and the thing you would want from that is the thing that you keep talking about me I the thing where I am just like, who is this person that's like, that's the future. I won't do that. I could do that, but I won't because they know that that's a bad idea that asking an A, I chat but about a person is a real bad idea. And it's just funny to watch google, of all companies, the company that is like preaching god, but responsible, just pull all of that apart.

Where where in this camera is responsible?

nowhere. That's my point, just the full. But if photoshop was doing this and not google photos and IT was just as easy and just as good bit, you had to pay for a creative cloud membership to have IT. Would you have a problem with IT?

So IT isn't effectively in photoshop.

It's this much harder in photoshop.

but not that harder. It's that much harder. There's face swap exists on eyes. There's a million of these things that exist.

But the image pipeline from camera to editing software to distribution is important, right? Because the thing you need to trust is the camera, and google is the right on the board edge. The camera is still fine.

The camera still just to an HDR, as far as I can tell, right? And maybe it's like recovering some detail, but usually at how they are talking about the camera, the features in google photos, in google marketing are integral to the experience of the camera. That's weird.

And when I say the line is blurred, yes, on a very basic technical level, some features are in one APP and some features are on the other APP. But then on a much more like intuitive level, google photos is a gallery upon your phone. Like it's just like that when you look at the photos, like you won't added them, you won't combines, like it's driving you towards these choices in a way that having photoshop is like i'm intentionally going to go to do this thing. okay. I don't know.

It's because it's suggesting rather like like it's removing that intention that kind of feels like where the issue is, right?

IT is right. Google to its credit, right? Google, I know that they are thinking about us. And I made this choice in another year, another android OEM, which is either less responsible, more aggressive, or how do we want to say that is going to build a right into the shutter button, the fun, right? And they're going to say, take a month of pictures and we will AI generate everyone looking you right away, and we will throw away the original .

and you look super hot.

Yeah, that's the camera .

that would sell in specific laws if that's what .

you're my other question is, I think this question of like taking much photos that exist in order to make one that never did, there is something there that is sort of equi.

But if if that was just saying like if google said we're going to do the same thing, but we're going to treated essentially is like merging first mode where we're not going to use a single picture that wasn't captured, we're just going to use the best pixel in every part of the photo from the ten images that you took. Would you still have a problem with that? Every pixel of that is real. It's just not all the same time. Yeah.

everything happened, but not all the same time. Travis Kelsey never looked at Taylor wift, but we've invented of that.

I vis Kelly looked at tailor swift, but not at the same moment. Huge man was also making that funny face.

right? But so now we've but now we've created a moment that does.

this is danger. But go with me here, philosophy with me here is that last step of, we've use all the data to create a thing that never happened.

But every single.

this is just composite log phy. The number, again, the number of people I mentions who are just like recapture in the history. I know, I know that all these ideas existed and all these existed before.

But if you take, compose photography and make IT that easy and that accessible, do you have the same problem with that?

Yes, like without question, because because your expectations of these images are different, you have to change society y's norms. And maybe the norm is never trust a photo again. yes.

Okay, big decision. Just put that out there. Huge decision. Have you a bit around, have you looked at the internet and how quickly and easily people will believe photos?

Okay, I need you instead of tweet at me to go talk to all of them. Do let me know when you're done, right? Like, fine.

Like that's a huge norm shift in this that is not as simple as waving IT away by saying you shouldn't trust anything. If you would like to get to a place where no one trust anything, then you should play that all the way up, know? The flip side of this is I think this is fine for a creative views. I think this is probably fine for family photos, like where the sticks of the images are low, probably find which .

is the vast majority of images. The vast majority .

maybe like, I don't know, I just we now create when you say the last limit, we create so many photos as a people that like the vast majority of everything and all photos is nothing fair.

But let me think that even in your own life, like the number of pictures in your camera, all and I suspect this is true of most people that will be viewed by, Frankly, just you and no one else ever or you and ten or fewer people ever is sure practically all of them yeah and you're a pretty public person in the scheme of things, right? Like.

but right now most of the photos, my camera all are of, like light switches that I need to rewire and I just need to remember what caller's ago and it's like, boy, I hope to pick so doesn't lie to me about that. That seems like a fire hazard. Like not like whatever. You're not wrong. I'm just saying like be crazy, right?

Like the ideas like you know what that red look like? Cable, that's pretty. Yeah up a .

little bit.

sorry. black? Red, no, no, no, right. Going to do that in the revolution in photography is that more people use the tool than ever before in fones, right? That that just so you have this like shared understanding, worldwide cultural understanding of how the camera works, first time in human history, that you've had a tool where everyone is using IT the same way to make the same thing, and then importantly, closing the loop, consuming IT on the same device. That piece is really important.

We talk to about that with the vision pro and spatial photos like IT breaks a chain for apple where you're taking pictures on the phone that you can view because your design for the vision right now, if phones the chain is the loop is complete. You you have a tool, you can take photos, you can look at photos. Other people took on largely the same tool on.

That's very important. That's assured. So if you break that for people and you say you understand how unreliable you your tool is, right? That you can.

You are often using this tool to make things that never happened. Well, if you change, every else is understanding if everyone else is tools. And that is like a long process, a slow process, ideally a very considered process.

And like here we are on the doorstep in google's answer as well, we puts a mediated and sort of everyone else is responses. What you could always do this with through a shot, and it's like, yes, I could always lie. What I did not do is culturally reconnect, tui zed, the very nature of lying spread across every phone and existence.

sure. And like that this moment, like we should just be honest with ourselves. The next phone or the phone after of this is going to have IT in the shutter button.

And when it's in the shutter button, the camera becomes totally unreliable, an unreliable nara of the events. And we aren't now just producing memories and not photographs and all of the norms around photos about what is acceptable editing, how much skin smoothing is acceptable. I don't know what.

What should people like? People, darker contents, what should our complexes like all those norms that tossed away in favor of what what did you want? Yeah, in this camera? Will not nessa liver you what you want instead of what is true? I mean.

i've been seen that for a while now in in phones in china, where they would light and skin and smooth everybody out automatically, and you couldn't escape. And I think even one of the early iphones did that.

no. So so this has been a conversation that I ve had with the various photography teams of conversation, something simple exposure for a long time, like for ten generations of the like exposure. Just how bright and light are things.

And then you add on top of that since moving in, what you have found, what we have all found with the major companies have found is the chinese market in the south queen market. What built in beauty filters in the american market thinks that is a moral catastrophe and IT probably is. I don't know IT is that hasn't doesn't stop the people in tiktok and choosing them all the time. But like yeah whatever inside, they've had to split the difference.

But I think that gives us like a framework as we go into the next phase with google and people who follow after google, we kind of have that framework. We've seen how that happens in ina. We've seen how that happens in south korea.

Yeah exam, see something like should again, this is this is my point of my fate camera like the market in this country. The market rejected the idea of an aggressive skin moving, right? That's actually like maybe not what you would have expected.

And you have another you have counter example of the market in asian countries actually wanted IT. And you know samsung basically gives IT to them. Apple kind of doesn't.

You know like they're like you can get the apps like that's more or less the answer when you asked them, like you know we see face to and like all the stuff exists and you can just get IT. We have blue bubbles were good, right? I don't know what the market is going to say about the camera and swap faces around. I don't.

I thought I was kinds terrifying. And there is a video on our tiktok right now of alison and becker using IT. And it's horrifying if you know alison because your face just keep switching but the body doesn't change and you're like.

right so here are some important covets the entire conversation yeah one we haven't reviewed the funds. I don't know how good this suffers. I have a sense of how good IT is too. I've said nothing about like the audio filters we're like in video just makes people's sustained out and good. That's great. You know like I maybe i'm morally compromised in that front and it's not built into the camera and photoshop exists and all the stuff is like whatever i'm just saying, there's not a lick of introspection here. There's google saying we puts some ship in the acts of data to market is edited and it's like, guys, well.

this is really funny that is coming from google who's been very vocal about like we're doing A I but right and it's like, okay but you just how is this any different than the gant like putting out a general text AI that can just lie well .

yeah that I keep coming back to IT during this conversation. Like the the thing we're describing here is what's happening with everything everywhere on the internet, right? Like this idea, that is, we've made IT trively easy to lie to a lot of people is like the story of the social era of the internet.

yes. And first, IT was easy to lie in a text post. And then IT was easy to lie by making a website that looked like a news post.

And then IT was easy to lie because you were associated with the russian government. And now it's easy to lie in photos. So like I think the the arc of that is not that different.

It's just that it's getting sort of higher fields. And we're going to go through this with the video in a very real way at some point, very soon too, as all of these image generators give up. I mean, we should be talking about di three in the fact that the table to do things that look like photos.

Now, we are now past the point where you can quickly gLance at a generated image that is holy generated immediately. Go of that. A I like, we are passed that you can no longer do that unless somebody wanted IT to not look like a photo. And are all of this is, I think, wrapped up together, and I think like the means of creation in in dali trees. And a lot of things easier than I don't have to buy a pixel to do that.

I can just go to I go to being and I can just do that, right? I think, yes, these big questions of flake trust and rules, and I think I think you posted about this a little a bit like i've been going back and rereading like the A P. S.

Rules about how they do photos and get these rules about how they do photos. And like for people who take the kinds of high state photos that are talking about, there have always been rules about what you're allowed to edit and how. And basically, like, you can like crop and you can vin yet, and that's essentially IT, and you can even really mess with things to make them more beautiful. The ideas like you took the photo, that is what that looks like. We are going to publish that.

If you look at the the new york times in sort of their future photography, the venting is out of control because it's the one nob that they .

can turn yeah. And so I think you're going to start to see these folks like in the same way that we have more and more people being more and more outspoken about things that they're using, like ChatGPT people are coming out with policies about how they do and don't use IT. I think you're going to start to this see the same thing with images.

I do wonder if the question is going to be like we're going from everything is now possible on a smart phone to like. I wonder if. Smart phone photos get out load from some of these rules over time for exactly the reason describing SHE brought up.

Get to know these high stakes image pipelines. You can't solve IT in technology. And to solve IT by getting a bunch of people to agree that this is what norms, right? You will do this.

You will not do this. So if you are a getting news photographer, you just agree, these are the guidelines. And all we can really do is crop. And all we can really do is maybe a little dodging burning.

I think getting allows you to remove sensor dust or the ap allows you to remove sensor, but they're like bit only if IT doesn't change the photo and if you have a question like ask us. So you can't enforce cultural norms in software, you just can't you can influence them. You can you can do some self.

But at the end of the day, it's just a bunch. People have to agree how things work. So that's the news side of IT. On the creative side, I think I think White up.

And do everyone have photoshop great generated cat look all the time? That's what that was the demo that has on on stage at code like fine. I think that up as exciting on that high stakes.

Are you representing the truth to lot of people? Is Donald trump looking at the protesters, really looking at issues? And did you removed like this matters, right? This is like really that some of these images really matter what they say.

There is an entire like ecosystem of tiktok ers who just look at pictures and tell you what Taylor shot is, thinking IT matters what the picture say. okay. So on those high stakes pipelines, you have to set them all.

So you mention getty co. create. Peters was on the code stage of me talking about A I last week. I just hit him up.

And today, do you look to pick late? What do you think of IT? Would you ever like ban a camera? And he said, he obviously do not answer what picks ladies like, even played with yet, he said.

We will largely continue navigate on the following lines within our editorial coverage. This is the editorial coverage you getting the news coverage, strict avoidance of any modifications to the image. Cameron infectious are to making some adjustments to light on the sensor, but we are strict the image as possible.

So that's that's IT no changes. And then he said, within creative, the sort of artistic side of getty, we allow for a bunch of stuff. He said, I see us allowing things within creative context, but we will not allow this representation.

So though my next question to him was, if there's a hypothetical phone that just like aggressively smooth skin out of the box, is that a loud? And he said, we might there aren't we don't have this problem today. But if things move in that direction, we could. So even like getty is at the point where they're like we're watching IT.

So theoretically, they could be like next pixel phone. No, you can whatever .

unnamed you know and makes a phone and their big camera feature is like you're always beautiful i'm not going to say natural god daily you know like god he would be like this this camera, this pipeline is not acceptable to us yeah and I think just the fact that one I can ask the CEO of getting that question and he's like this is the answer like we are considering IT. That's why i'm saying this is a watershed moment.

I'm not saying this phone and not saying you need to be outraged about this phone. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy the phone seven years of software updates, you know, have a time, but go. I'm saying that in the context of what is a photo, google has decided that they don't make photos anymore, that they make memories.

That's the quote they gave to alson Johnson in her interview about with the google P. M. About this, these tools, and I like these, are memories. And I just would remind people that memories are famously fallible, famously unreliable, not actually allowed in many objective context where people need to know what happened.

Like, that's crazy, right? To make that motor's shift yeah IT sound to say photos don't lie IT sds to say photos can be by so I tos can be added. It's this one camera, okay? We should probably start having a really serious conversation about A I and cameras and how they collide and whether or not we, as a culture, as a society, expect our photos to be representations of moments in time, whether we expect cameras to produce that. And if we don't, we don't think that's true, then we should probably have a huge conversation, how we started to start training children from a Young age to never believe their own ice.

I mean, I think we should do that anyway.

I mean, if you look the end all going in, had sets .

similar for five put that .

like those are the stakes know? I think there's a lot of people kind of like doing nya ism in my mentioned that like we do not think was anywhere. Anything like this is just and it's like, no, there's actually takes like that IT means something to give everyone in the tool yeah if I was like, i'm just making guns easier to buy.

You ouldn't be like all around, always been able. Now IT actually means something to give everyone a tool where they can lie at scale and to brush IT off as these aren't photos, these are memories. And if that we want to say IT, then okay, you have a meta camera but it's not like outrage and we even doing what is a photo for so long that i'm just like, oh, this is this is the combination my life work .

and we're going to keep going we now.

by the way, now I have to buy a lot. Yeah, like, I have to have one just to be like, this is a watership. We should all buy pixelate pixel sales through the roof. And when people are like, why? Like because this phone is philologically important in the nature of imagery, not because it's any good.

honestly, that made me want to go buy one.

I mean that you can you imagine if like arizon had a meeting where that I pixel eight sales or through the roof and I can be done any audience data in people, they're like it's is a battery life, is a performance and people like notes, philosophical quandary, boy, had we ve gone over sorry, David.

you knew this was happening. I did. And I walked right into this and .

we could barely ly talked about. The phone is a screen, you know, you can pay dollars for one hundred more than last year.

ten or three.

Can I just say one more cool thing about the the phones or about the google announcement that we should have on google? Did this weird thing where they announced that bar, the the LLM powering bar, is going to be powering in google assistant, and they did IT is very sketchy way that made IT seem like they had, like, just thought of this idea five minutes before the event started. But that's a super big deal.

And alex and I were at the amazon event when they started talking about the putting elms eth lex a to do more stuff. And I think if if voice assistants are ever going to be good, this is the moment we're gonna start to see IT. And the hope, yes, these people have a super high.

The case for why this could work and why I can understand text Better and why can be more reactive is real, like the ChatGPT voice stuff is like a alarmingly good. And so I think if if suddenly this becomes baked into google, a system in a way that is like accessible and cool and useful and has the same control over your phone and access to the internet, that's all gonna really cool. They were super sketchy about the announce. I have no idea how any of it's going to worker when and if it's gna come, but I think IT could be a really big deal.

I'm very excited, especially we can to answer the cup question neil I had earlier, like if IT knows the difference between the cups for you oh my god, game changer.

When you ask google assistant, right he more and try trying to be kind of the audience when you ask who assistant, how much is a cup, it's so confidently not used like in the context of a coffee machine, just like a couple. It's no, I know that's something.

Yeah, it's going to give you the real one.

right? We're going to take a break. We're in her back where to do another two hours on the conceptual nature of photography. We are not committed. But if you send me but one email asking us to do that right back.

Hey, it's slim from decoder with new IP top. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series, diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech and hire away co founders? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that. You'll hear all that and more this month.

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Are back there is other stuff at at the pixel vent, there is andred fourteen got releases pics. Watch to all that stuff isn't gonna in a review cycle. So we will go into that stuff in detail when we actually use IT. I just can't resist to what is a photo I like, still wanted and my graduate .

keep talking like to another four hours any time you want.

That's that's why we made the website.

And I guess what? Netflix is more expensive now.

Oh god, right? Pit IT streaming. There are not an alex talk the whole time. What of the plexus?

It's still and fine. I watch top head on IT this weekend.

That was lovely, nice. AlexAndra is like famous on the internet. By the way, I posted something on thread to the other day, basically the only possible response to the the unending stream of streaming Price tax is just to delete all streaming services and buy box sets of your four favorite T, V shows that solves problems. And I mean, a dozen different people were like, or just get on complex server. Yeah.

look at I I worked really hard on that server. I'm not going to lie. I worked really hard when I was unemployed.

Are you in like our home lab? There's oh, you got to you into IT. We got to get you like a rak mountain in logy situation.

That's what I want. So bad, have to figure out where put IT. But what i'm not going to be doing is subscribing the net know that such continued to subscribed to netflix because I like IT and there's but shows on what I like and I obsessively consume media.

But netflix is there's a rumor that netflix is going to be raising its Prices again. It's waiting until after the the sag after strike is resolved, which everybody on both sides seems pretty confident is onna happen fairly soon. So that's lovely to hear.

The reason seeing that is not because oh, exact all these new contracts and they are spending way more money on on actors and writers. They're spending a little bit more money on actors and writers like a fraction, tiny, tiny fraction. The reason is because they were always going to have to raise surprises ah because like zero percent interest rates are gone and and you have to pay for things so they need money.

So so yeah, it's happening again. They talking about this beforetime. We see a bunch of Price hikes this year and and we're going to keep seeing them.

We saw another one this week. In fact, the ad free version of discovery plus is also getting a big Price hike. Sorry, David, one of the few people I know .

that subscribes, okay, i'm fine. We have finally moved all of our streaming to max, so we just live inside of max now. Why leave her alone? I said she's fine.

She's an elementary school now.

She's got her own like server.

She's got her own. She's a little like a little .

little five full .

no hour. It's minecraft is on to this. Cate has taught herself she's like building a craft. Yeah and it's all because of my graphics and you two kids and it's like I am worried about IT.

you know it's fine. It's like as my child going .

to falt honda dal zone, not like right now. It's like she's building houses.

So my got that want to be a dictator because of you. Look.

there's an argument that we will be Better served.

he said, would be a gentle he like.

don't trust photography.

He would like, you get in early with him.

You'll be fine anyway. You want everything on max, yeah. Have you watched the make IT show? No.

I naked attraction is not family friendly for my time.

I watched one episode for journalism back in. I like, is that there we watch IT together just, and we both like, do you want to? Do you want to keep coming? You can start.

You want to be now I took A M A. And I currently deep in the automated on netflix and the golden bacheller on who lose. So like we will get around the next attraction. But the the thing they don't.

No, no, no, no, no, run.

run. yeah. I will say the golden batch that makes me feel a lot of feelings about the world that's for a different at cast, the streaming places seeks. So I went back and like I I made a stories stream for us, just like compiling all of the recent stories about the Price tax. And like man IT brutal, it's just everywhere you look, it's just like one, two, three dollars more expensive all the time.

And i've been trying to figure out there are one of two things is happening, and i'm trying to figure out which either all of these companies are just testing to see how high they can go. And eventually they're hoping that you can tell everybody else and secret of them, which will make your praise flexibility higher for that one plan from the you like best and theyll the get away with charging you thirty dollars a peace or everyone thinks add plus cheap subscription is the future. So they are just going to keep racing, add for your services through the roof until you go to the ads because they have realized that that's how they're going .

to make their money. This is my theory that is the this entire business was entirely independent until like .

fifteen minutes ago, yeah yeah .

everybody was on to ads and it's really, really funny. The last couple of months, you really started to see netflix s take a back seat as it's trying to roll out ads and max is in baxi as IT tries to at max famously like this comes from HBO that was not a very advertiser heavy like heavily subsidized place but um a bunch of the other parts of that thing and a bunch of things that David has loved IT before. This was very advertising place and you watch like paramo plus and everything that they're doing right now. And those guys know ads that was cbs, those that was like the biggest network. And IT was really, really good at taking all of your money and then wants to do that again and watching this like sleeping giant slowly get out of bed because he's all sorry now watching and slowly get out of bed and I go out and start to win back all those eyes as as this this whole landscape starts to shift from to be on netflix to got to have my own service to, oh god, we're just inventing cable again. And now we have to figure out what part of cable we are paramount's gna crush in this because that's what it's .

done for years and he knows how to do IT. Alex.

that continues to be your .

crazy st streaming single wildest stance in the room.

What did they do this week on tiktok?

Don't know. Because who care? Oh, there are the ones who did. Okay, my take IT back. Paramount.

good again. See, see. You're seeing IT. You're seeing IT.

You should explain what happened to put, you're right.

I take IT all back, right? So paramount t this week uploaded all of mean girls to tiktok, right? And so you can watch IT little sections because that's how everybody is. Watch show.

No, I have watched so many movies in what is essentially the x alex is a server of take talk.

What i've watch, I watch flash IT.

What is obviously to rest, which makes that movie right? IT was everywhere he was like, we're going JK. Simon is, give me a dick, but super fast. The only one that tin guide me was inception well as like I didn't was happening this movie when I watch real time on a big screen. And I certainly do not know what is happening on tiktok that was .

so smart of paramount to do because everybody doesn't that way. That's the new like TV street like you go you sit front of your TV and you foot the channel.

But they took IT down. They took mean girls off take talk. There was just a one day mark.

Yeah they did IT as one day marketing thing and it's a really smart marketing thing.

Like, do they make any money? Partment.

what is mean girl stake?

But IT was all about the means. yeah. IT is mean.

Girl stake is october third. And that's we talk to her this october erd. So I watched that would be a lot.

clearly.

I unfortunately.

I also almost all of the ocean's movies, oceans eleven, oceans trave, oceans almost fully. I think I watched all of .

oceans eleven. Your F, I P is much nice. Mine was just the Sally learning .

the plane.

And then Young, that's a mine, is people complaining about the lack of, uh, switch options for phillips you which I am going to start making these tiktok yes, IT and like movies way .

more entertaining. But yeah I I think paramount .

on IT to IT that this is crazy.

The I just like the tags we're onna get on like everybody does, like automated transcriptions of these podcast, and we're just going instant get back from every podcast, podcast like what? But I think the thing that's so funny about this me is everybody has discovered how good of business cable was and and like other people been talking about this recently with the way the economics change that have LED to a lot of the suffer the rider strike is they made money from you twice.

You paid a lot of money for your cable bill, and then they showed you ads. And that was, that was the deal we made and agreed to for decades. And then a bunch of people thought IT was a super good idea to just take one of those revenue streams away.

And they did that. And that seemed very smart in a time when you could get infinity investment because you just kept showing user growth. And then we come to the last two years and all the time, thank you to start making money again.

And like, how did we make money the last time? Let's oh by making money twice and they're just going to do the same thing again. Accept instead of paying one seventy dollar bill and seeing nine minutes of ads every half hour, i'm going to pay ten seven dollar bills and see nine minutes about every half hour. But the user experience is going to be worse. We're literally in the middle of rebuilding worse cable, and it's starting to drive me totally.

Not wait, but we don't have to deal with a cable box.

I don't know that that's Better. Oh, I do. Instead, I get to deal by roca TV.

which sucks yeah I just wanted yeah there's a cable box. It's a row cou.

It's an apple TV like go get a Better get Better sist whatever.

It's still ninety five thousand different uses, experience and series of video players that are not very good.

Yeah and I think that's what were like at some point. They are going to have to start recording with is right now, everybody's big way of getting you on their service is, well, we've got this sport, or we've got this, this T, V show. You really wanna ch.

Or this movie you won't really watch. Max has been very clear about. We're going on to sell our stuff. So you're seeing a whole bunch of max products on netflix this and if you log in to netflix this week, that feels like old school and netlist you oh, I got to do. Yeah, I just do that.

Nice casey boys on saja card. He was like basically saying with, are we used to sell our things like a .

lot of times that that everybody y's wanting to get back to .

that he called indication.

The brass ring indication was huge. Indication was everybody worked for, and they haven't had to do in the last few years. Another realizing way now this is click. All the writers and actors realized that all of the the directors and producers realized IT. Everybody wants to make as many much money as possible, dipping as many times as they can, and just going all in on anyone like form is done.

The big difference with cable, and I I think it's important to say this out that there was a value per internet in paying money for cable. One IT had all the stuff yeah and you couldn't get the stuff at all unless you paid for cable like cable channels were not available to you in any way shape performance unless you paid for table too. And I I think we forget that this is where the industry came from.

They were Better than in tennis. Yeah right. That like the the wild west of the early cable industry was a bunch of people who got in trouble from broadcast networks for setting up big antennas and then running wires. Everybody y's houses know they used to call a cable cat T V C A T V, and was like community access television.

Yeah.

that was a good shit, right there. A thing under there where they're like, we will centralize the hard part, which is getting the signal of the broadcast towers and then will make IT good. And you were paying for that thing very specifically, but direct TV used to advertise that IT was higher quality video than cable Operators.

That's gone going. It's like no one gives a ship about that party more. The power we are paying twice is like campaign access and then you get in ads like we should demand that the access be great.

Well, and the other part of this is cable didn't just die because netflix, like netflix, certainly participated in the death of cable that is still currently happening. But youtube is a was a much bigger impact, right? And youtube hasn't gone away.

Youtube is still here. So these people are all gonna out here recreating cable, but they still aren't be. They're onna, get the audience back. The audience is so fractured. Now you're not getting that to audiences back. The days where you could go and watch, remember, like my favorite example is Grace anatomy, because gray zan atomy season to that was still in cable, was really strong.

And when Grace natomy IT was so really strong.

it's still really strong, which is terrified. No, like IT does well in .

the neel since well short is a bad show, but the sold as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so the Nelsons back in like two thousand six, two thousand seven for most watched episode would be like thirty million people to then nobody is crazy. And we still a major success, considered a major success for A, B, C, still making a lot of money average.

So is like six million people. And it's that's good. That's considered good. Like we saw a huge drop off an audience and all that audiences went and watch stuff elsewhere. And that's not coming back.

And that's the thing that these streamers are actually gonna to reckons with. And I think that's why the Prices are onna keep going up even past where we think is reasonable because they're having to compete with youtube, where everybody makes the content and IT free. That's gonna hard for. I think that's right .

in the sense that there's only like twenty four hours in a day, right? And the idea is where people spending their time and like the Younger you get, the less likely you are to be even spending that time on streaming services like I spent up on time this past weekend with my nephews, IT was homecoming weekends. I was like, talking to him in front time about all this.

I was like, yeah, I used to like sitting watch T. V. But then I realized I was just looking at tiktok the whole time.

So now I don't even turn the TV on. I just sit and watch tiktok. And I like that is telling my friend, like your second screen is the television .

yeah this is I end up buying a frame TV. This guy i've talked to people like TV and dollars yeah and then like some samsung people who the frame is a hit because people know that I will be off. They're just going to leave IT off.

Then I bought one because I was like I will be in Better and i'll just leave IT off. But I now it's currently our TV yeah and I just like this, not even local dining. I like about this TV.

I really want one for my bedroom just because it's .

pretty yeah we eventually in the bedroom and watch comedy specials on IT.

I have always wondered, they like all of the advertising material you see for the frame is when it's off. And i've always wondered, like, is this is this a good TV when you like, turn IT on because at some point .

you're gna turn IT on? No, I want to be very clear. No, no. IT, the match screen is like really cool. It's it's really cool and we have one in the other studio here.

And when IT has like art on IT with like detail, it's so convincing, so cool yeah and then you turn on you like, right, one big S L D back light like it's one nine hundred and fifty six viewing angles. The bloom, the whole thing is broom. Just there's just like one flashlight behind the does .

not know the color black.

It's just great. Maybe you why I watch whiplash on my phone phone can do true black.

Well, the good news is it's really expense. So you got that calling for you.

No, it's there. Actually the little ones are cheat. I think this is the other because it's a cheap panel. Yeah that's there. So all Price on margin, which means they get discounted like crazy.

Okay, fair enough.

But but I was like, we should think I should buy a gallery series LG like A G two. It's very much, very thin. You can mount IT just like a frame.

But IT doesn't have the match screen, doesn't. You can do the art as a crap or buy the thing. And then i'm looking at IT, like why I bite? why? Why do I have a single backlight? L L.

C T. In my home? You can put IT as a background .

for your podcast. It's going to be .

great when it's on the world, the bedroom we never watch yeah which is an insane thing to say about a TV. It'll be great when we stop watching .

IT just a pictures of facts.

It's going to be pictures and max and it's gonna great. It's to be great at that thing. But as an actual television, it's like samsung me again, this is the second time I got a samsung TV because it's beautiful and i'm like, what am I looking at and why do on this? And i'm going to have IT for fifteen more years to go.

L, G, no.

we're gona buy where i'm waiting to buy. I think you can get them now, but the official on sale date is the SONY in ninety five. It's so expensive party, but we're going to tell me in the wall for fifteen years.

So i'm like I should spend the money. Yeah, it's it's going to great. I had Better be great because after this frame experience, I don't know if I can take IT right. Sorry, David, we are talking about the future streaming.

All I know is I have I have A T C L T V back here. It's forty some inches because I accidently clicked the wrong button. Amazon, you know what IT is? Is, is fine. It's just fine.

I'm still in my L, G, B, seven. no. See, I have A B six. seven. yeah.

Have A B six. yeah. It's fourteen, whatever.

Years ago. Twenty seventeen.

that's right. Seventeen because I want to be six and sixteen okay.

I like, oh, my TV.

but it's going to be there for I should have great like why spend the money? There's one thing you should spend the money on in a nice T V. You're going have IT for .

I do actually really with that.

This is the problem with streaming is that i'd rather talk about the TV in the content.

Good teaser for monday's verge cast, by the way, before we take a break, which we should do where our whole episode is with a person who would like to give you a television for free.

it's coming. I cannot wait for the cystic. You're right. We should take a great, we should do something around and you get out of here. And then after this, we'll have a bonus round, a six more hours talking about the nature of back.

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Were back lying around. We were like already over. It's crazy. Ea, long time people .

sit in their cars waiting first .

to finish the phone is good. It's a piece of heart. It's not just a bundle with philosophical countries.

but IT. Yeah yes, please. I'm telling.

if you have the money go to to your local virus are like, I want, I want you to mark down, but I am buying this phone because IT is a philosophical delima. I want to move the needle, right? It's not speeds that camera. It's, I want, I want to be horrible at parties lighting around. David.

okay, I have two because sometimes i'm allegedly that my first one is IT appears. We've now seen the entire human AI pin IT was at paris fashion week. And naomi cambell, I think a couple of other people were wearing IT on their on their sort of breast pocket area.

are filling the shit out of this thing.

So we have now seen what that looks like. I think I was john gruber who described IT as an iphone. You will get in a happy meal.

We still don't know anything about what this device does. Their original launched date was the fourteen of which is just next week. There's been some reporting out there that says that has slip to november.

I'm not exactly sure what's going on there, but we've now seen the pin is IT real, does IT do anything? Who's to say? We have had many questions about this for a very long time. I think if they they had a couple of videos from paris fashioned where IT was another one of those like projecting IT under their hands as they were doing stuff kinds of videos, I have never had so many questions about what something is then I do about this, but I find IT deeply fascinating.

Can I just am going to start with a baseline question there? Is you our post and go look at the post. It's in the shown notes.

Pull over in a car. I wanted to look at the picture of the of the mounted on the ladies pants. Okay, how much is this thing way? Because that is not pulling on this fabric .

because she's got her .

hand in her pockets.

No.

I don't know. Well, that's she's got .

her hand in her pockets.

She's been up. She's keep IT.

She's kept up that fabric. Have you ever worn so much as like a butane? You like high cope in your like a this is kind of sagi.

Yeah like you have to think I .

just have you ever anything like has anyway it's going to pull and IT here it's not doing and you think she's born that favorite talk oh yeah.

he's she's full pull in talk because you look at the other one, it's it's on a sway jacket and then it's on this this White shirt where she's also, yes, on the lapel and she's also against styling, imposing herself. And this was all coming from the party show. Which party apparently loves to do some little fashion stuff. So like they're previous a recent show was like all the .

robot .

dogs yeah stage like my dogs so like they love to do like wear tech stuff. Uh, a reporter ma soto is a big fashioner and I like oca ney doing. And if you like, of course it's that would do the humane thing.

I still have a number of questions. For example, how do you load contacts in this one? So are found that the real .

question are you you just talk .

to with your hand out in front. You.

okay.

we get no hand. I just to me was very funny that this came out the same week that apple announced it's no longer supporting and repair ring the seventeen thousand dollars le watch. And it's like those two things, like the the beginning of one thing, in the end of a very similar thing. It's like you can just see humane trying to go this like cool fashion y make this luxury item right, which is the thing I think people try to do before they have a product that's good.

I like, how did that work for google glass?

badly? IT works pretty badly for everybody because IT turns out it's very hard to make something fashion.

I just I want to take you back to the photo of the lady in the pants. Every time I look at this product, I have more questions. okay? We've seen how the thing works, right? You can call bathin or hold that where if you have IT mounted on your pants.

you can see her nuckles whatever .

whatever look way decide. I've still don't know how this works. I think there's cardboard in the bone. I'm trying to say, let's say this is an acceptable mounting position for the humane.

I in a key one, say.

let's say this is where they think you should have IT. Okay, and you need to call bEthany. Where are you going .

to put your hand square .

like just the basics of this product shape using to me?

Maybe you pop a squat and maybe that's like part of there.

Are you like? You like doing fashion absquatulate .

and they like papa squad. Call you friend, pop a squad.

Checking you means marketing slogan is papa squad. I'm all in all in all right.

right? I'm just to look at the photo with the late where it's on the pants and just feel like how would you just run just run that to its logical conclusions? You have to one of the ways in which you use IT is that you talk to IT and IT talks to people in french and suddenly it's you're like to do and it's like in french from your pants pocket.

from your crap. Basically.

what happens when you sit down?

This french sounds like the adults in charlie Brown that what that just worst try not to be racist. Just checking you know, there you my other living running role is this weird kind of scandal about the iphone fifteen overheating. But people notice that their iphone fifteen is are really, really hot and training the batteries for fast.

Apple basically came out and said it's the apps fault, which is like A A delightful follow on to you're holding IT wrong from, you know, all these years ago. Apple then released an I O S update that IT said quote addresses an issue that may cause iphone to run warmer than expected, but also said that IT was the apps fault and a bunch of apps updated and supposedly solved the problem. So what is going on here? It's whatever is this seems like it's been fixed.

terrific. The overheating problem from some of these apps that are running wild seems to be solved. But whose fault was this and how did they fix IT? We don't know, and it's driving me nuts. I just want to know, let's go. It's very weird because it's a point update that doesn't like ordinary when apple adds new features in like a point point three updated a like little bug fixes and security updates and that like this is not a moment you do much but they named to this one.

No, because I think there is a new cycle on IT. But I guess my guess here is with IOS seventy in their came some new frameworks and instrument and who wearing a bunch other abstract light on, they updated use as frameworks that was causing the problem, then they could blame IT out instagram.

Now here we are where they've to the thing they've up to the OS that was maybe using the framework, they've to the free work that the up using the apps can do IT anymore. My guess is it's much more innocent than IT seems but IT IT is very funny. They're like.

no instagram. Everybody mean a bobo, right?

Source, LG is dropping .

A T S C three point o from its tvs next year. I I got a lot of a lot of messages about this over the weekend.

This is the R I P cwn story .

the weekend. Yeah, I think IT was telling. LG was one of the first to adopt the technology and put them in its tvs.

And I was one first to drop IT. And it's because nobody. He's adopting A T S C, three when I was like, the stations, arena's t converting over to.

And so I had a conversation with a fancy person.

a code OK about television.

Yeah, not. The person is on stage. Not by now, who, by the way, a super stark code overshadow by in the action.

But he was like, here's a new, i'm suing. McDonalds are racist. Every french ries are racist.

Like IT was crazy, but he is not about A B C. yeah. And one of the reasons that he was turned by A B.

C is he thinks tions are women is thing, trying to buy A B. C. So I was at code talking to the people about that conversation because he was a super star performance.

And they were like, we keep trying to work with local stations to make them Better. There's a lot of things we want to do pretty of interested in sports rights, all the big streamers interested in sports. There's a lot of local broadcast deals to make any sort of upgrades at sports and fork, for example, that the local stations have to do IT and they won't. They just would like there is not a single less innovative part of the media ecosystem. Nobody local television stations .

yeah everybody who's been buying up the local stations because there are largely a couple of different monopoly that the majority of them they have no interested at. They are effectively like private equity to journalism where they like we wanted, just buy IT.

see what .

we get out, run into the ground in simply as is like in new york. It's it's pretty expensive to put up the towers and stuff for atc three point out. And a lot I would guess, a lot of the buildings running here to want to deal with that, deal with the leases and everything like that.

So IT is is chAllenging. And there was just a bummers because like A T S three three point is cool. Technology, like the technology itself is super, super cool. And I could do a lot and I could really, really democratize access to a lot of stuff, but no one wants to actually do IT. So it's all just kind of a bomb. And it's like I don't blame LG for not wanting to spend the time and resources to continue to use this if nobody y's adopting IT like you know come back in a couple years, but by then broadcast TV will effectively probably be dead so that's it's just a real bomb.

X, ah yeah, they got IT.

We made IT. Yeah, you're ten years to late. You this but this .

is there's a balancing member. Visio took the years out of its TV and there is a huge backlash and put them back .

because I was too soon. If they did IT.

now nobody care. I think that's right.

I mean, well, the video was cheap. The vision that was a whole get a visio as you get a really good TV for a really an expense surprise that change the little out days. But like so I get like their audience probably did use tuners a lot more than they thought, and most people probably don't actually, especially LG. Like something going by the .

nice d just write to us. I need to know the answer. We're both guessing. Yeah we're guys I think a lot of people still use certainly a lot, especially our audience .

our audience study because I use .

my tone that's but the audience asked us to talk about a tsc three point. Now I have a feeling.

I know i'm sorry, guys. I I want IT to, but I don't think forgetting that ATS two.

four now was going to perform, it's going to be very happy.

There is going be really close.

I have two as well, but my two are like the same thing. Okay, so one x the platform formerly known as twitter announced, uh, deal with pair selton. I I would describe this press release is, uh, calories free.

IT contains no information. It's a lot of work. It's so many words.

One thing I learned about Linda co. Is he loves words, just loves words. And you can see why SHE is a great marketing executive. Bc, because he had nbc. SHE had the olympics. If you just want to wander around talking about how people feel inspired and communities are brought together and look at the world, and here's a Young girl singing in biona x nbc is a great platform to be that personality.

When you have twitter, it's like, what are you talking about? Like you've got nothing and it's all the same of like hope you changing your language for I have a Better word so anyway, so they will have to see parasol t will you will post on x. They were to other create four original video content programmes per year that includes life shopping across, along with a host of other activations across all services of x. The live shopping experience will ready to browse through a catos of products and then click through the site to make a purchase. The in at browser OK.

This could be cool and i'm going .

to give you the unless very dance is actually selling x to sea on this world, zero people by anything.

There is super into radios. This is like the law about paris Hilton issue. Super into to traditional radio, cb radio. What one of the stories to C, B radio stuff that would be cool.

if very certain, as A C B radio activation that be great. X will work to secure brand sponsorship to support each of the activation. So are paying paris. They don't know how they are going to a pay for paying pairs. Very good.

EXO also support implying other efforts that eleven eleven media, which is the company seven eleven media in party tent, will be involved in the earth year. Now this is nothing. What is that? So I don't only I said saying is my second thing is there is a little bit of an existent al crisis on threads this week because the heart of the nfl season, the government shut down.

All the stuff is speaker. The house is getting fired. This is the stuff you you would use twitter for, right? Like these moments.

Where were twitter? There is a flooded new york, do you? Twitter is great at telling people who don't care about the weather in new york city. What exactly is happening with the weather in new york city?

Yeah IT threats.

as I would say, flatly failed to live up to any these occasions as a real time new service. I i've tried that i'm rooting for threads. It's the one I use and everything.

It's mad to me when my threads is bad. I but the one amusing i'm I I believe in activity of the whole thing. It's not good at this stuff. Watching football with threads is like not watching football with anything like it's the opposite of watching football with threads. So just a lot of consideration about threads and whether they care about news and meta is that there was a reporting information that meta doing creator councils for the gathering. All the creators together see what they want, which is historically in the history of social platforms.

I think you before you die, but you know on the first side you know Better does have instagram and like they have a they have a thing there yeah but it's like they're doing committees to figure out what they should do to kick threads back in the gear. And like h, you don't need a committee do news. Just do twitter.

Just do what twitter get out. She's real tiny. So I posted on threads IT feels like they need to make everything.

They were so burned by news, Adams was so burned by news because he used to run the news feed. He is so good, man, is they have to try everything else first. And so when Sarah actually back to me, we are not anti news.

News is already and threats we're simply trying to avoid over promising and other delivering to an incredibly powerful group, which is a mistake we've made as a company many times in our past. On its face, this is a totally a reason thing to say, right? We don't want the news media to think that threads will save IT.

Yeah so we're not going na pretend two things about this one one solution to this problem is to make promises and keeps them. Just put that out. There is somebody who lived through something called the pivot video not lying about metrics and actually developing revenue.

It's a contact. I think that would have solved your problems. It's it's just a thing. So I get where that's coming from.

Like everyone yelled at him is saying, like we didn't keep our promises so we don't want to make any promises. Is time much like backwards? I like fine like I actually understand IT yeah like one rational response to that is to say we are making .

no promises here.

Great the promise you your reasoning er so now so good luck. Like forget .

being burned by making bad decisions hasn't met. I learned that caring about the news business is actually just all downside.

Yeah, regulators are there. And you know, canada is going to make you pay for links. And in australian persons going to know murdoch is going to be a pay for my links like that all happens.

There's a belong this country that would make him do IT. It's all bad, but the product isn't sticky because what you desperately need is people posting about the news on a product that that looks like twitter. O yes.

except twitter was a bad business, was always a bad business and was a bad product that most people didn't use. And the people who did hated themselves for IT like i'm not sure you actually should look at twitter and be like let's do what twitter did. That's how you get a bunch of like psychotic many acts like us who spent all together too much time for fifteen years on twitter like.

so my brain is healed. I I feel i'm a new person now that i'm not doing that, I have threats in my phone. I don't even open. My god forgot I I throw a bab and threats like this, cameras, a liar.

walk away to me. I think, I think the thing threads will regret more than not being more like twitter is positioning itself against twitter the way that that has. Because what they did, mark sarkar, an atomic ery, both did this like aggressively and sort of loudly to be able to say in as many words.

We want to be Better to twitter, and we all kind of internally understand what that might be. And that comes with certain things and certain ideas. If they had just said, we think it's time for a new kind of text based social networking for .

sharing this sort of did a little.

But you if you say the first thing, everybody's going to hold you the first thing, right? Like I I I think it's true. But also if if you say, like we think the world deserves twitter, that is same, they run like in essentially that many words, people are going to hold you to twitter standards. But I think like meet us out here to build a big thing that makes money. And twitter was never any of those things.

Actually, we have ten thousand. And so the first one is criticism of the current twitter is no way praise for the previous administration. Twitter, I think it's important to say they were bad at this. There is an argument we made now I think that, that was the best I could be, sort of chaotic cable, right, was like the best IT.

Certainly the best that .

has been maybe maybe they had stumbled into a sort of steady state of misery like, I don't know, maybe so me like this is the company sold itself for forty four billion dollars at fifty four, twenty and share because I could not figure out a way to get to four, twenty and share on the open market. Really like, I don't know, that seems high. Take them on like we got nothing. My god, we nothing is. We're a lot more to people tweet like whatever.

And now the new reports said that is worth eight billion dollars. So everybody doing great.

So there I just we talked streaming in cable. So I compact and just in company effort, they don't they are not into me an netho x producer. That's a real thing. I have eighteen t is my personal .

film service. Yeah horizon.

Yeah alex cranes watches every star tracks show on param .

plus broadcast. T, V, R, F. Energy is flowing through our bodies, right? You know, that's a real thing that that happening to you too. Grazing atomy is going. Looked at the five g alert, went off, 啊， all of you are air Rogers. Now.

you know what that means.

but IT sounds great. Come back around the threads. I'm saying if they solve the smallest problem, if there are, I know a bunch of them.

F one fans, because I see them posting f one days after they posted, because the algate feet, but I seem doing IT. If they just solved, we want to make this great, they would have solved that. They want to make a great for watching football.

The promise that solving those problems necessarily makes you great at all. There is a government shut down liming. Oh, the speaker has got fired or whatever, right? And that means you're good at news. And I don't think that they have a plan to square that circle IT cannot be that a bunch of fame you're gna pay pair self some money to post about grade hose in her shop coming that's not onna do IT for you, you don't know.

Or that you're just going .

to block some topics entirely the way that has done with coffee, right? Like you can't just you can just write certain things off and then be like coming out, but only about the nice things like I think you might be right that what twitter was might be the best of all the bad outcomes, and maybe they are all bad outcomes.

IT was IT was like the N. C. seventeen.

Social media threats of .

social and this is like gate pr.

I just don't think .

like even if again.

I would just come back to some of the sticky est things twitter did for me that weren't news. Like hard news, like political news, sports watching sports with twitter open is great or was great. Now it's weird because the half people aren't there and then they're doing the weird programmatic conceptions of like ads for buying gold.

I love good. I don't love any this and I know of the problem. I found that on the web, whatever, it's not great. I would love to switch the threats for this. It's just not there. And again, i'm rooting for threats because I want a company metal scale to bet on federation and interactive ability and push all of that forward. They seem super committed to IT. I am totally unsupported that I just think they have lost sight of what makes IT sticky, which is actually real time information in like I don't know that you can solve that without accidentally solving news and I .

think they're paralyzed for that.

Yes, sounds. On the other hand, twitters paying parts of money.

The fact that Linda jakin's had to tweet the word's slipping is IT just makes IT all worthwhile.

It's it's slaving. I always say slight.

We're living me. I sliding.

guess i'm sliding my way out the door. I think that's IT. We're way over time. I just want to point out this up. So verry with the coffee cups did philosophical quandaries.

And we ended slighting when people say with another rage this is we made a whole publication for ourselves. Yeah, for this is where we live. All right? That's that I got something call that we have a partnership of deep brand.

You should go buy the skin. They're cool, the sick as I look beautiful. And then three of cameras back as video, thousand photos. The iphone of fifteen pro max, one of best video ever done.

I need to lots of photos back as a lots of thoughts of those cameras compares to the first iphone camera, which actually IT is more complicated than you might think. Again, just exposure. Fill up a haner and these funds go watch a video. Okay, that's IT. That's chest.

And that's a up for verge cast this week. We'd love to hear from you. SHE doesn't email at verge cast at the verge dot com. The verge cast is a production of the verge and the box media podcast network, the shows produced by me, liam James, and our senior audio director, Andrew marino, our editorial director, is broke meters. That's IT.

We'll see next week.

Support for this episode comes from A W S. A W S, generate A, A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud.

Support for the show comes from A N T.

What does he feel like to get the new iphone sixteen pro with A N T next up anytime? It's like when you first light up the grill and think of all the mouth watering possibilities, learn how to get the new iphone sixteen pro with apple intelligence on A T N T and the latest iphone every year with A T N T next up any time A N T connecting changes everything apple intelligence coming fall twenty twenty four with theory and device language set to U. S.

english. Some features and languages will be coming over the next year. Zero dollar offer may not be available on future iphones. Next up, anytime feature maybe just continue at any time subject to change additional fees, terms and restrictions apply C, A T doc com sash iphone for details.