The next Macs and the next Twitter
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Hey, it's lee from decoder with new IP top. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech can hire away cofounder? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that. Seems you'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with the litel presented by strike. You can listen to decoder.

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Hello, welcome her chest, the flag of pocket of samsung decks powered by knocks, supported by android.

It's real.

But when he turned on the samsung phone, the logos are out of control.

I mean, IT has always been, and .

nobody is .

Better .

at logos.

That same touch that .

here here the time o thank god .

honestly.

how transit here, i'm just really excited to hear and I talk .

about decks are talking .

that's all doing today.

There's quite a lot apple has a surprise event in prime time up against monday night football. That's that's a real thing that's happening. There's some airport d leaks, Price hikes and services, a real theme of our show lately. David wants to talk about one year of x and I believe we're going to put social that works on the go ninety fact going to be incredible. And we like them around, including, I would say, the funniest recurring lighting round element of all time, which is microsoft executives, either by moning or being proud of the fact that killed windows and the meat in the needle to swings back and fourth between those two things, the same people every couple years it's coming up on the verge. St, but first let's stock text.

Can I just read everyone to messages from slack? Yeah new and uh, at eleven twenty eight A M on tuesday, october twenty forth news, we have a verge cast room for all of us to make show nelega says also hello from decks. And then a moment later, I have pared IT two mechanical keyboards.

So that's the worst for everyone in this office. And there are two types of that message. So this this is now, this is now an important part of my life, is tracking your death situation, and in general, your niner situation.

The basic updates I have A Z fold five, a really cool z fold five. IT has A D brand skin on IT. So that school IT doesn't good.

IT looks really good. Putting those skins on is not a small amount of work, is the thing i've discovered.

But they do look very cool. IT looks very cool. Boy, I dislike this phone.

Do I just not like IT? And it's not android. I like a number of android phones. Android is great. Specifically trying to use a folding phone for what i'm trying to do is not good.

Are you one of those people who's like really mad of the crease in the middle now?

So I mind the the z fold, the pixel fold and z fold five are kind of the same folding display, but they fold in in different directions. So sam, someone with hold skinny and google went with the wide the correct way yeah. Ah so using the song when is closed is ridiculous.

It's A T, V remote.

It's just really nothing quite work. And then when you open IT, you have used two hands, yeah, which is fine. So on the train, I get my tablet in IT jelli schools.

So the display controller, I think, is on the left. And so I throw my finger on the right. So the west side of the screen moves up faster than the right side of this.

So the test I and I can then can see, we are we just argue about this in the office. I don't talking about. I like I on a roller coast and I don't like this.

It's just anything because this is one of those things with phones that we largely solve s like back ten years ago on this show. I think if you go back to the verge casts from like twenty thirteen and twenty twelve, there were a lot of people mad about monkey scrolling stuff on android phones. And the thing like you can't scroll and read the text at the same time, which is kind of how we as described people.

And we're back at this, somehow we're back. And although I will say me, i'd just opened his phone and got immensely distracted, stroll around the same. Do something right here.

IT doesn't have a, doesn't a singer. sch. I open a monkey with one. You ede to turn off the winer. So that's the phone. So the first part of this, where I just roll up on the train, i've got one device I don't like using this phone. I understand why it's sick as hell. Yeah yes, in that blissful ll moment when i've got IT open in them, read the google back and someone is like, what is that? That's that rules .

yeah but then that do you get a lot of like people looking being like what follow .

me on the train.

it's a flashy thing to do to unfold the phone even in twenty twenty three people have seen them but your still .

dies like you don't see this, not just make .

eye contacts that .

your train ticket .

there's like one second my phone yeah and you're .

always just kind of going to fight whatever that part is. Fine like it's a phone that works. It's a good fast android samsung phone except I find the display scrolling to be extremely distracting.

That might just be me. A noted pixel density might just feed me. Some people can see IT.

Okay, fine, then you get to dex so they roll in the office. You have, uh, U S, B C dock in a blue tube mechanical keyboard. And i'm just pulling stuff .

out of our reviews closet. I like how many keyboards .

did you go through? Because I kept going in.

They were just stacking up on your .

desk that was not great. And i've got a razor daming mouse like a wired ultra high D P. I gaming mouse buttons on IT.

Ah there's a lot of button on the side.

all which appeared to be masked ed to something in android for some reason, which is not great because whatever you talking the USB c doc HDMI display then do you get to dex in the day? Dex expert, dan secret.

the dex pert.

he told me that .

you have to install an APP called good luck, okay, which is made by samsung to ultra customize samsung one U. I. In his character zone of this up is they made this APP to get around google's restrictions because they have to ship one you, I, not too far away from android, right? Because samsung, for a decade.

completely lost his mind with software design and tried to shove apps called milk music at you, like, stop doing that.

So now all that stuff is in good luck. IT told.

good luck music in there.

Good luck has two tabs.

You think that sounds like good luck? Like feels like I know there .

are extremely hard core galaxy fends out there who think i'm crazy for only now discovering good, good luck. And I apologize. I'm just saying this is an APP where at the bottom of the screen the two tabbed are makeup and life up.

And then you can install vous plug in sick. What you did you like? I lift up a little bit and I installed the plugging in that lets decks run at fourteen and forty p.

So now i'm run in decks. Yeah, looking good decks runs android apps IT turns out so slack doesn't have a side bar. So like you're just using the android APP wider brain on your .

tablet s just next of them as many, many one. Aps, no.

So I solve this problem running like is a web APP in che in which IT is very broken because it's running in an android chrome in desktop mode. This is the thing to this working.

If this is the thing about the whole android and google universe, is that all there they've made all the things? Yes, it's just like they refused to have the meeting where they're like, what if your thing and your thing both existed in the same place? Yeah like we would never do that.

So again, dance advice to me was treat this like, uh, chrome book and use samsung internet presser because it's Better on this than chrome, just which the samsung presser moderately Better. okay. It's just not quite. There is what I would say you can see how would .

rule like your .

desktop looked like a very functional desktop from a far yeah I I last saw I didn't see a keyboard attached. I just saw you are using that. The phone is a touch pad.

Yes, that's sure. Before I had a master, you can just use the phone is a touch pad. So that that was my touch pad with like my little mechanical keyboard next .

to the Green looked, the monitor looked, I was like, oh, that looks like a computer monitor with, like, computer stuff.

Can we get to the thing you were going to do in the lightning round? But we should just talk about right now, which is talking about mental, your salad, you know, yeah, you can talk about that later, but no thought in the of IT gave an interview this week to business insider in which he, like every other microsoft executive history, said giving up on mobile and windows phone was a mistake. And like, you know, who could have done a good job at the thing you are describing is microsoft.

They sort of tried. They have tried.

They're trying now. They stopped trying for a long time. They're like sort of pushing in back in that direction. But like all the soft describing where it's like, oh, I want to think that like runs android apps when it's my phone but then I sit down and I have something that is much closer to a full test top Operating system. You know who could have built that starting twelve years ago, but instead did a bunch of weird shit then shut .

all their platforms down to fire their CEO microsoft? That boy does he agree with you. He was asked, what about a mistake or wrong decision that you might regret? And della sets the decision. I think a lot of people talk about one of most difficult decisions I made when I became CEO was our exit of what i'll call the mobile phone as defined. Then in retrospect, CT, I think there could have in ways that we made IT work by perhaps a reinventing the category of computing between pcs, tablets and phones.

You are totally I read that as him saying there's another category of devices that we didn't do didn't think about, but he's definitely saying there is a version of a phone that is kind of all of those things and we should .

have built IT. We always hinting that we're .

gona try IT yet again. sure.

They aren't pp. He tried so hard .

that's not gonna happen. They just because they either to do android or they have to do the thing everybody else to do, which is building the entire O S.

For scrap. I'm just going to say this right to our friends such I don't if you're listening such a you made the right decision. There was strategic catastrophe to buy nokia yeah, in them to do windows phone instead of IT .

looked cool though.

He was all stupid.

Oh yeah, the bad calls were made before him. Yeah.

he was just like, you know what the platform is on fire into the ocean with you that is a very deep cut. I'm not going to explain them, but for the people who get IT into the freezing finish ocean with you. Is basically what touch these people, yes.

And that I think that was fine. I think the company, he is very much Better. Well, I think he's hinting at here and we're going to talk what humane leader too yeah there's like suddenly a unch of people are like what comes up for the one and there's a lot of action. And what comes the phone .

business? Not cool. You really like, yeah.

it's just there's there's a lot of heat around what comes up for the phone again comes up every soften. And this is when the pendulum swings for microsoft executives to a should we have quit on the phone? And like a year ago, he asked IT all this question. He was like, that was the best decision I ever made is getting away from this dinosaur and saying, we sell services across the different platforms.

Yeah, I mean, I think in general, alex, I think you're right that this is never going to work and microsoft to be foolish to try now. And I can spend foolish to try really for the last five years to start billion towards that again. But I do think there's a really interesting tech history, alternate universe in which we tried to do this, right? Because I think .

holding people trying to do IT, even if dex were unfolds into a bigger screen.

have you seen it's amazing. Even if dex were amazing, I don't think that there's ever gonna a mainstream use for IT because it's just not how we've like learned to use technology.

just not here's that actually, besides all the little problems in the software, there's one deeply hilarious problem with this entire approach to having just one thing. I come to the office, the whole point of this is I don't have a desk name. If I had a desk, I just put a laptop on the desk and I would leave, which is what what I did for years.

But now, because we're like roaming death, hybrid worked. So I have a desk. So I I can't leave my laptop on this, like hotel desk, and I have to get up. I know what I have .

to get up and .

go to meetings all the time where having my computer is often useful and instead this, right? And just like.

what do I do? Nothing cooler than sitting on your phone .

in a meeting .

in one and later this the first yeah uh so anyway, i'm going i'm going to try this for another week just for the comedy of at all. And i'm because I I feel like I should write down some of these experience of uh about the future of computing in jelly is killing to be quite onest uh and then I think my my solution is going to be even just leave my laptop in the of his closet where I found .

this one that was right yeah and .

then I despite another computer for home, okay, and that's the real solutions.

Your homework for next week, those you're not allowed to bring your laptop to the verge cast. You have to do the verge cast from with only you can bring your whole damn deck set up if you want to bring, bring the mechanics keyboard, bring the razor mouse, no laptop of out next week.

You do not want me to bring a mechanical keyboard to the.

I mean.

I do for audience to sake alone. You do not want that amount of noise in this room.

Our audio engineer would not be a fale .

in A I right out.

yeah. Problem in videos is got to fix.

What's an actual news? There is a bunch of actual news. We should start apple because there is a bunch apple news, including an event here. So there is there some rumor build up late last week, early this week that apple going to have some max. A lot of people didn't believe IT because .

or just it's late the year. It's like, yeah, we have passed the point typically where apple is commonly going to release products and there have been some members that there were going to be no ipads for the rest year and no max for the rest the year. And then apple did the thing where they launched that stupid pencil that we talked about last week.

So everybody is like, okay, well, if they were going na have another where they're gonna spend. So why would they do this way? I think it's just because it's stupid.

They wanted to get that out that way. So yeah, there were a lot of good reasons to think there wasn't going to be event. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere.

we have event you. So monday night at night, yeah, the night before halloween was called scary fast. And the name on the invite streaming only. And we believe it's going to be max.

We assume it's going to be max because it's like the most likely thing. And there's spent some reporting about at the m three, we think coming to macbook pro overdo no .

twenty seven eight.

which strives me insane.

I think john river believes a twin seven eight.

I hope so. I think john g goober might .

be the wish casting um which .

is a turn that I love very much. I hope he's right. I really do. But yeah the the twenty four inch imac is pretty overdue for an update at this point. And I think the twenty seven and imac is just the studio display in the max studio. Now I think that how apple wrong and a head teachers are mind but yeah that and mack prose, which doesn't really seem like IT merits a whole event they .

don't have to invited. Here's I believe about this event.

I've heard this theory already.

Apple is looking in its own streaming numbers they know is probably just chip bumps to existing form factories. A reasonable guess, right? And they know that people will watch the events to matter what. So they are going to do a prime time information that millions of people are onna watch. And it's just going to be a weird, spooky halloween me T, V show about the mac.

Okay, I have several questions. yeah. Question number one, does team cook .

come out and costume? Yes, Frank. Frank says monster.

You think he's going to be Frank .

and things like I just want to see, I mean, mainly because I want to see a tim cook, but like a Green face, just like presenting products because it'd be funny.

What do you think the maximum of of costume tim cook would wear is i've been thinking about this because my my parents are coming this weekend to do our first hollen with max in the new town. And I told my house I going to buy costumes. And SHE SHE just made this noise like, like.

And I like, okay, what if I just get you like a witches hat? She's like, okay, what about like a witches cloak? I, my dad, a big, silly, haggard beard.

And i'm just seeing how far I can push IT. Like, how many additional elements I can add and like, suddenly they will just be in full kit. And I don't think i'm going to get there. I think i'm going to get to two elements and we're gona .

stop yeah I feel like you can do like hat and beard yeah and that's about far as they're .

going yeah so what how many elements do you think we can get on tim cook.

oh, I think he goes all the way you think.

You think he's just a full commit.

No crag goes all the.

I know crag be unrecognized crag full jacket is belief .

that's good with the hair .

because the hair.

because you get the big floy dracula.

And like little cover, whatever that that dracula always wears.

I think tim cook is going to .

be more like I wanted come back to the drag, always wears a cava.

Is that whatever the thing is.

he was, I only recognize blade dracula. Drake.

please think I have drake software.

dracula that they call them in this movie.

that I think tim cook is more like the like in the office they have a halloween episode. Jim shows up with a just a name tag on this is dave and do I like, what are you for halloween and points that goes, i'm dave. I really like that about the level of costume out spectrum. Tim cook, yeah, he's gna wear like a full step instead of a quarter step like halloween.

But this is just my general theory here. Yeah, is that apple owns a streaming service. They have hollywood stars and celebrities with their backing call, and they know their numbers. They know they can attract attention on prime time on a monday up against funding efforts ball, and that's gonna fine for them. So no other company can do this.

I agree with everything you just said. I just don't understand tactically why you would do IT for a boring .

event and not the iphone. This, this is what I keep getting stuck on, is like, why now?

why? Why make you all reflects spect bumps .

to laugh and know? Tim cook goes.

because the stakes are low. They have to when into the iphone, all the analysts have to come, the partners have to come. The stock Price has to go up or down the afternoon.

We have to be there. The press has to be there. Do the hands up like there's a whole bunch of stuff you ve got to do with the iphone and they're still wearing that towards full infertile. 可以 this if it's just a bunch of spec bumps to a mac.

they know that stuff. Who was the last of .

you can test the concede that you can move the event to prime time yeah right?

Where as if you try with the iphone and IT flops, you would write a huge mistake.

whether this is just like we just having fun halloween. But I think their events are headed inexorably in this direction.

Who was the last person to do a prime time informatie? Because all I could think of was the Victoria secret fashion show. And like.

apple brings that Taylor swift and fall that boy for this thing.

I mean, what this makes me think of is that event apple had jesus on five years ago when they brought out the all the apple TV people yeah. And IT was just a parade of celebrities with nothing to show. IT was the worst apple event. I remember that ever. Well, just sitting in the room and was a lot of people being like, here's A T V show we're talking about making, remember, had a couple of trailers at the end but IT was just a lot of like, come on, john y being like, I might make A T V .

show remember there is one like an acting exercise. They like, listen to the wind yeah just .

before .

the head shows, they didn't show a lot of trailer or they were just like opers .

here and she's like a billion pockets and the pitch was look at all these celebrities who will do so with yeah and I would guess if you're going to do something like this again, I would not be shocked if there are musical guests which job really hasn't done in a while.

If there are what it's .

just because he goes all out secret fashion.

No, he goes all out for halloween. Like, remember the year he just as a warm.

Tim cook, there are the named time that says dave and .

the tidy cluley for warm that's .

all like this is a this is just my theory. I could just be of a bog standard mac of them. I just think if you're gna program some of this in prime time the night before halloween, you definitely have carrots.

That's a given. yeah. But I think the most important piece of the puzzle is like does apple think that IT is prime time entertainment?

Oh, I absolutely think that does. yes. No, I think that's right.

because you have to believe that about yourself in order attract eyeballs at this time. And I think they will be successful than a lot of people and watch this thing. All those are, we waited.

Pens are needed for twenty max. There is only one matter of success. They do that .

prime time. Are they truly coming coming with me? T V, we see like like is that what we need to measure them against or just other apple events? Like do we .

need to measure is no measure.

People you see like the concurrent numbers on youtube, whatever. But that only part of that, I think there's been a unch mentioning news this week like apple TV plus got more expensive as a lot of their services. That there is the news from bloomberg that apple is making yet more effort, consolidate everything into the TV space.

IT just feels like we are definitely at this moment where apple is trying to flex itself as an entertainment company. And I think the idea that is going to treat its stuff is like huge TV. They're gna start to have like apple of that up front, I think is like not true.

But there's a desperately a thing that happening that apple believes everyone will pay attention no matter what he does. Yeah, I still don't understand why that leads you to say let's do this A P, M, eastern on a monday night just because we can like and that's weird. But I think I will work like it's it's going to work in the sense that a lot of people are going to pay attention because people always pay attention because it's apple. And the funniest part of this is no other company has been able to get to where apple was like ten years ago in terms of making their events and event SONY tried really hard for a long time. Samsung continues .

to try SONY did have I just put that out there?

That was not .

IT was like deely fort IT was they were doing 3d tvs。

IT was not like a great time.

They look at the TV Taylor swift design looking.

He wasn't like Taylor swift.

SHE was like tailor swift.

Taylor has always been Taylor swift.

but there was like different. I'm i'm .

worried about your .

physical safety. I love Taylor swift. I'm a huge fan of the eras tour.

The cool move for apple because its going against monday at foobar would be to bring tailor's with air craft cost. Tell you one up so you get them to publicly announce their relationship.

So we think it's chipped bumps. We're not doing that.

No, it's I like this plan that .

it's tim cook is dressed up .

this Taylor craggs drive kills see .

what i'm saying. There's a very guard .

that we think .

we're three that will proves we think we're getting a twenty four inch I mac a refresh we will see yeah then there's some other stuff leaked. 哥们 had new airports， apparently tly the third. And airplanes are not selling well. People are just buying the cheaper older ones. Because if you're in the middle, why not go all the way to approach is basically my feeling.

yeah, yeah. I think there are basically two kinds of our pot buyers right now. There are people who buy the newest process because they're the best ones, they're very good.

And there are people who buy the thing that goes on sale at costco. Yes, I am the person who bought them on sale costa. I literally could not tell you what generation of airports I have, and I don't care because they are airports. I don't like the process because I don't like the sticking them in the air can that just feels bad in my ears, but I think that's the case. Now there's they have entry level air pads and new pros and anything in between.

And yet another kind of fire OK, and I have ve seen them. And so costco, it's the people who buy the knockoff airpower maxes at home debo, which are just in the middle of the store at home debo. I see, I see people pick this. I M you have some home you for every weekend.

That's where you live.

Now it's just like where i'm going. And I watched people walk by this display of knock off airpower maxes at the home deepo. And I pick up the box and I look at them. And I I ve seen at least two people do like a third look around because because they know. And then they walk away with the box.

And i'm like, oh, there's a lot of people on the new york city subway where in the home deep maxes and I don't even know like why is some people people had to sell fully counter fit products, but it's happening every weekend. I see this. There are like twenty box and David scrolling through .

them right now OK. I I can offer you a pair of hundred dollars school, or I can offer you a twenty dollar pair of zoom. I sound, play wireless over ear headphones, they look ninety nine.

And york subway, a lot of people are x this ladies is just vide.

And you having a great time, please.

I have great news. They have hd sound for numerous sive music experience.

This is just like, I think there is, I think this is a third category. You've got the people, you ve got the two categories of airpower buyer, and then you have that, whatever. That looks fine. IT looks like the h share expensive.

And I that's why, like you go to walGreens and they just like cell headphones in line. And it's like, cool, like people.

And I think that those middle, the third gene, airpower s like the good ones in the middle. I think I will expect there's to be the big seller yeah but actually you're you're being squeeze by home depot on the bottom and at the top people, I should give a shit and they're going to buy the best ones, right?

Yeah no, I think that's right. But I do think it's exciting to see, Frankly, apple like continue to push what airpower ds can be because IT sort of seemed like for the last couple of years, they were just like, well, we won. Airports are like everywhere. Everybody has the we have air bloods.

have the other ones, but the problem .

is they are now commodified. Yes, exactly. And now it's like they're pushing on some of the stuff. I think the new ones.

supposedly they're going to get some, which is very upsetting if you like to use blue headphones for audio stuff like .

for talking longer.

Yeah I was like was 哦 my does I would like airports .

that are basically like dental headgear that can go all the way down around your chain。

It's just one piece that .

do they still make neck buds?

Those like things you or yeah you can get neck buds that's you.

baby.

the wall Green check out 其实 是个 so that's .

that we don't know when that's happening， but they're coming yeah you see them reinventing that lineup because I I think wireless, your bud's total commodities now yeah, but they have to keep pushing up. Ox, we've been talking about Price with you at every week. Now throw a dark at the board streaming services and it's like the Price is going up. Nine, ninety nine trapped TV plus seems of very high. Yeah.

I really enjoy apple TV plus. There's one show on one of my top ten shows all time. I'll watch IT like every six months.

It's like my office. I think apple TV hit rate is higher .

than any other, but it's also got twelve of shows. I mean.

now up more more. Now I disagree that a hit rate is higher really. I think IT has hits, which is unlike other streaming service.

Is this because you watched the Octavia been or show and it's not very good.

Most of the that's what I mean. They make a lot of brilliantly produced, excEllent looking nothing. Yeah, see a show in which, if you just go look at the reddit for the show, sea starting Jason milla, the most common question in that redit is, can they see, because the show is not committed to its own.

concede it's complicated, guys. IT just depends on which care to are talking up. But IT is beautiful, beautiful. Yeah.

yeah. Are you looking at IT?

No, i'm looking at that. I mean, I I honestly, I stand by the lake. There are very few disaster shows .

on everything .

on there, with the exception of the morning show, which is full. Honest to god, go fish. Wow.

it's it's a so Opera. IT is so, so Opera, so melodramatic that, like, we know where is where student was on january six but like, that's a spoiler. I am so sorry.

It's just like, what if you spent all the money in the world to make a soap op?

That's why I love IT. I'm like how we're finally getting to show soap Operas. But but yeah, the Prices are ten dollars a month.

This is hard to tomic, especially one of our commentors, after we put the story up, just broke IT down. And by percentages, apple TV is going up about forty three percent. Apple arcade is forty percent.

Apple news is thirty percent. Overall average is thirty seven percent. Does IT feel like you eating thirty seven .

percent more services? I would. I get to .

thirty seven percent rank.

three other people.

It's very obvious. Here is apple is trying to get everybody to describe apple one.

yeah? no. You can see IT. Apple one is only at five box upper. One premiere for families .

is going up five books. And if you use apple arki and apple TV plus, that's that Price right there. Done everything else. You is gravy. You get all of apple services that get so transparently a Better deal to be on apple one, then to be on some other mission .

of only became A A Better deal like now. Yeah yes, because I was actually trying to sweep over the apple one like two or three weeks ago and I did all the math and I was like, well, I don't use some of this stuff, so i'm not going to do this yeah.

if you like, if you use news plus and fit this and all of that stuff, it's been a Better deal for a while. But right now it's like if you use two things.

it's much as I have to say.

there is no way anyone should pay twelve any one for apple news plus no, that's abd .

someone out there is doing. I mean.

it's tim cook. So I just in is to be coming in the bundle but isn't all a car subscription unless you are extremely committed to reading P. System view, which I am and that's a bad deal yeah like that's just that's so expensive, that's more than the T V service .

yeah and you get payout news, which is good day for money for the news industry. But there are not very many people for whom that's going to be worth thirteen last month.

just not IT. And that now what is like fully in the ball yeah other a bit of apple is I O S. Seventeen point two beta is out yeah this is the other .

thing we will probably hear more about on monday. I would guess it's a lot of little things. The big thing is the journal APP is finally coming. I don't know why I took this long. I'm not sure anyone cares that the .

turnout is I forgot the nl p until you.

I I think you and a lot of people. But now it's coming. My guess who would be as of the developer beta is out now. My guess would be will get some kind of public data pretty fast or it'll just hit like it's a point to update. Its not a ultimately exciting, but they will probably talk about the on monday who would be my guess.

I don't think I think it's all max and it's a this me T V show yeah snooky fast twenty seven inches just trying to manifest IT and then we have a big story this week about double tap hit the apple washes. V has strayed by hot works, which is very cool.

IT seems really.

really, I don't buy that I can come to my apple last trip.

by the way, or my serious six.

one of my series too, but is not seem really cool. The one thing that's interesting is you have to have your display on for .

to work yeah, kit doesn't seem to be super reliable, like it's definitely a work in progress, this feature, but it's a cool idea and that seems to be like these are is really interesting just in getting into how complicated something like this is to make and just like if you think about what your hands are doing all the time, it's a noisy yeah input mechanism. So it's just IT was lead to respond. Cy, all the stuff IT takes to do.

I don't know you, but I am constantly .

punching my first, just sitting there like the meme of authority.

Just furious. Bring me. drake. What if they have actual drake?

What if they drake dressed up as tracking? Lar, that's prediction. Drag.

dressed up as dracula. No, no actual apple stuff at all is just going to be tim hanging out with his friends.

That would be the true flex. No new product.

just having the show of the apple pens, the new pencil. Just the pencil death.

First we got to take a break where come back and dave is going to execute the idea of putting social worker.

Hey, IT slim from decoder with new ipad top. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into summer, the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? Where part are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the A I space, why are so many big players and take deciding not to acquire and instead license tech, hire away cofounder? The answer IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems you'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with the life presented by strike. You can listen to the coder, whatever you get your podcast.

And here we have travellers in the natural habitat enjoying guaranteed four P M, checked at five hotels and resorts. Book through a max travel and they don't know you and see what's coming at them.

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thanks to and explain them the last day. Vacation brings yet another experience that's a powerful backing of american express E.

Now back on the verge cast the show that we make every week.

We have may have just been watching blade trinity.

I was still thinking about blade body.

It's a great movie. It's a really good movie. I mean, it's a watch movie.

a movie.

It's a movie you will have a good time watching, but you probably won't like honestly recommend to another person.

yes. So you're just one of those people who really likes bad things.

Yes.

I like to win. But because .

they're bad, you're like, i'm glad that this .

is terrible and exam it's ad it's bad in the right way like it's a well made bad.

It's entertaining. It's just not good like the morning show no see.

I disagree with every part of that about the morning show yeah .

there are some things that are like bad and sloppy and you'll considered and not coherent every way. Trinity is like they had idea and they executed the health and IT just wasn't a good idea.

but that I can appreciate you like you executed your whole vision perfectly yeah and you shouldn't .

there's frame of blade trinity where they weren't like this isn't exactly what I want is you just .

should have voted something .

yes I have just gone a different understood David you this is your baby and I believe that a listener has requested that we do that.

This was specifically requested ted. It's been a year um as you're listened to this on friday, IT has been exactly one year since the elan musk acquisition of twitter was made final. Obviously, twitter is no longer both literally and network.

It's dead. We've had a year full of new ideas about social. We've had a year of like would be coming and going. We have had a lot of change we talking about. And so I think what we haven't done a lot of a over last year is just talk about twitter as a product that we be talked a lot about the machinations of the company and all the weird self going on.

But like, is this still a good, viBrant, thriving, potentially successful social platform? And IT seems a cooking time to check in on all of the other ones that are trying to be this thing, of which there are an alarming number, yes, but it's increasingly smaller number ers are for about to get you. So what I figure we should do first is just like, let's do let's do the state of twitter a little bit a year after elan must got IT took IT over.

I actually don't think this is going to take very long because I don't think it's a particularly complicated opinion to have anymore. I think if we'd had this bit three months ago, reasonable people can disagree about the viBrant y of twitter or x or whatever you got. I think at this point, IT is pretty much undeniable and unavoidable that IT is a worst platform and a dying one.

Yeah, but there's a lot of jack asses in the world that really like to use x sure, like what I want to be at an eighty. But I think the jack as factor .

brings IT down like a forty five or of this let's get to the scale people is going to be a thing. yeah. But but I think like at this point, and I do think the question of is x going to continue to be around for a long time, is separate, is IT viBrant and cool and useful? And like, is IT culturally relevant in the way?

Yeah, very.

I already feel like IT is drastically less culturally relevant. That was even.

yes, one hundred percent. Yeah.

no, without question. In the there is a way to measure IT whatever is never very big is always a smaller list of the social companies that was a bad business. I will once you can issue or disclaim er that criticism of x under elon mosque is in no way praise of twitter interject cy, there was a badly run company again, they sold IT because they didn't have any ideas on .

how to make that valuable matter.

So bad company, but outsized influence in the media, in sports and politics.

I mean, the joke for years that was the cable news was just host reading tweet to each other. Yeah, which was not untrue for a very long time that I don't see anywhere.

Yes, it's gone. So the notion that you could solve every problem by tweet or create vastly more problem is gone. I get just that sort of over in a big and important and probably healthy way.

They're even a witter person of the day anymore.

You know, that person everybody would .

done on the mask, an in so long, just always like the main character of twitter, and everybody would be talking about that you'd forget about them like the bird watching woman is always the first one that comes to my, it's just steal on .

everyday and to see you on every day he is, the reach of his tweet is dramatically increased.

You, because he said, make my tweet sure.

And if I thought with her.

I would do but then recently, apparently has gone down. Did you see that he he tweed something in a reply, which is how he eat a lot, and his stuff is huge reach, because easier on musk on. But then at one point I might get this silly wrong. But I think he, quote, tweet his own tweet onto his timely saying bringing this to my main time line so that he gets more rich yes. And it's like even elon can't get the view counts anymore and yeah just I don't know again, I I don't think we need to like dwelling this forever, but it's there's just nothing about that product that feels like IT has gotten Better twelve month.

And there is like a relationship between twitter size and its influence that kept IT relevant because IT was never a size that made IT relevant. The tiktok is very relevant because IT is huge body uses and everyone uses IT. But it's so pretty insulted like your average tiktok trend does not break into the mainstream too much.

Everything is going to be doing that slip sides soon. Just just you wait .

and on the streets and i've .

seen IT with the skippy dance.

Yeah, I tried to do IT don't do .

IT you die. Did you try to do something?

I mean, my midlife crisis today.

But faster just that way because it's the phenomenon are large, 对， but they are contained in the whole user based, does not see everything by definition. And so tiktok itself has a lot of cultural import. Individual things that are happening in tiktok are pretty silent.

Twitter was just like, all of twitter will now look at this. We'll talk with this, will be engaged with this. And for too long that thing was coated, right, like IT was the driving force of a lot of that debate, even like massive worldwide influence.

And now twitter, even if IT keeps the users, the influence is gone, right? And that's the danger. And the advertisers are leaving. We've seen, reported the users are fleeing. And I think you on something like raging against IT.

he's just trying to like streams way out of IT, but on online. So it's not as aggressive.

yes. I mean, lucky he he took twitter and he turned IT in the partner. He did IT. He did IT.

Yeah that's and now I do wonder there's s an interesting like that. The conspiracy theory has always been that he's trying to just bankrupt IT. You could ve like burning your house for the insurance money seems to be the theory.

I don't think that's what he's trying to do. IT does seem very clear that what he wants is to build the like finance APP and thought he could just built that on to twitter and that would make sense. Yeah, he thought he could .

convert all of those users and instantly have this up, right?

He's just like i'll just let twitter users pay each other and then that's how i'll get my finance super APP. I do wonder if this all falling apart might just accelerate his like i'm going to go make paypal again plans. So I think like exercise very different than that was twelve month ago. I have a feeling twelve months from now, it's going to be even more unrecognizable to what I was when he thought IT a wear direction .

by that point will all be paying a dollar. Just have an account on IT. And so one of have an account on truly .

one of the most of the .

european government will find that out of existence. Yes, I the thing that is just obvious to me one year in is that the cultural revolvah of twitter everyone is going to talk about IT that the news sube driven about IT that the politicians are worried about IT that you name IT gone you.

And I think the thing that most immediately accelerated that recently was what's going on with israel and homes. And all of the misinformation of that was happening, like the the flooding of people out of twitter and into new platforms, really took off in a big way just in the last few weeks.

I really interesting that everybody flooded out of twitter and into new platforms, none of which actually .

also did a good job.

Oh no, every everybody we want to figure out tiktok will tell us the real news. And there was like a story this week about how tiktok did not in fact, you a very good job but I think new york times did that was tell your s and so no, nobody just go read the news, know you got a pretty wrong yeah, the news also got IT prety.

It's been a great time. But like you, if you're starting from a that basine right, which is the mayor times issuing major correction more than the secondary information ecosystem, is gonna bad to. And I we've definitely seen that. And the thing is that twitter, at least in its jack dorsey period, had an incline of wanting to be like neutral, neutral, the wrong word. But IT IT just wanted to be like they felt .

like there was a level of, like, peer review happening on twitter before. We're like, generally the accurate stuff would crawl to the top eventually or or the context would arrive and you'd like, okay, I understand what i'm reading here and that doesn't happen anymore where somebody would just be like, yeah.

this is crazy as I it's like the opposite of that. It's almost like neutral with a Sunny there was never neutral, but IT IT was level and there were things that were out of bounds. And the new version x is like, what if we just amplify the things that are out of bounds? So and that is a distinct shift in the character of the problem.

I actually think it's even similar than that. And I think one of the things that is working for threats right now is that the people in charge of that are believably trying their best.

And I think that was the thing that people believed to twitter for a long time, was IT was a lot of people trying to do a very hard thing, but generally trying, they are hard, yes, to do IT right? And reasonable people can disagree about, right? But I think that the reason Marks occur, became a bad guy for a long time, was that a lot of people believed he was not trying to do good things.

And in a truly master ful P. R campaign. Mark rockburg has one many of those people back.

But I think the mass rop r campaign, by the way, is a making with it's making out .

of actually the face of this is the team running threats has done a really good job of being out there and being present and appearing at least to be trying hard to do the right thing. And it's very clear now that the leadership at ax is not yet interested in what the right thing is. And so just changes the feeling that you get from being here, like I am no longer in good hands and that feels bad.

Yeah, which is weird because these products of scale of them have the same incentives, and which is to increase engagement and be sticky, right? But you see adam constantly, you try to thread the needle on as a news here or not, and his answer is like, uh, I really don't want there to be people going to do anyway, but we are going to show you other happy stuff is a work this week and their earnings call said there should be a tex space social network of a billion people that is more positive.

And so you see them, they're actively trying to make IT. So you can talk about israel and a moi, but definitely cannot talk about covered, which again, I think is a defining moment in the twitter. This is the thing that broke twitter the most.

Well, see if the other platforms survive. But at that thing where all of the influential people are using one platform, and it's crazy, you can just see yellow them directly, which was a delight is gone. I do not think that is ever coming back, and I think that's OK. I think that is easily .

for the rest. So which is a good segway, yes, to our next bit, which is all of the would be we explain the go and scale.

right? So rising started video streaming service to go, and they were early to the idea of starting in dom streaming service. Credit to rising.

We profile IT. You can read that story. But eventually, like all streaming services, IT died and went ninety. So the scale is the go ninety scale of doomed streaming services, which we are referred.

Sing here for twitter clone, but the go go ninety scale of doomed streaming services is, zero is alive. Zero is alive. And then you can come.

good idea, and you can die, right?

Like good idea.

you fall over and die.

I encourage you to read the story about good night, ben pop wrote IT. It's a lot of, it's a lot of telecom executives thinking they understand teenagers and you join a video crew.

And I just feel like somebody the minute someone came out of a meeting and was like we decided to go go ninety, whoever of that person's boss should have been like, never mind what you like, we're out. But okay, so that's the scale. Let's start with x to good balancing point to start with where do we think again? Remember, this is between fully alive, crushing IT, totally viBrant and like full dead yeah like end of platform gonna gone. Where do we feel excited?

Okay, I said IT earlier, but I think it's going to be at eighty like that's where IT should be. But I think IT has such a high like kind of jack ask question on the platform right now that is more like a fifty to forty five at the moment .

and forty five it's forty five yeah right in deb in the .

midst yeah for a lot of people is in the eighty, like most people, people and eighty. But there's just enough my thing .

to be to put in a little higher except a like you're saying, never underestimate the number of people who are the worst and be these things just take longer than we give them credit for, right? Like I spent a lot of time thinking about the people who still pay for ill that they got on this. That stuff doesn't die as quickly as we think IT does.

We stop talking about IT. And most people move on. But like the most things, die slow.

And I think twitter has begun what is probably like the inexorable slow death. But IT has not died. So I I think that's right.

Forty five somewhere in the forty five range feels about right yeah where do we put threats which so the threads news this week was also on the earning call. Like you're samui, they announced that threads has almost one hundred million months of active users. What is almost mean in this context, who knows? But it's a big number.

The number has been growing. All the people, whatever two months ago who were like threads are struggling to keep. Users have less to say. Now that seems to be doing fine. Where do we put that on the list?

Forty five, really? Yeah, I put just like a different color of forty five. I like.

you know happy forty five.

Yeah, it's a happy forty five. Like and most products fail. There's that's just the nature of them. Most new products just launched.

A lot of I was just about to say the case for and against threats is that it's matter yeah my immediate instinct for threats is to put IT like twenty five because a docker works out here now saying we see a path to a billion users, which is what he's been saying all long. I think he's enjoying this competition. I likes how much threads has made him the good guy.

And I think that's gonna. Threads is a pretty long runway. Threads also, I think, seems to be working like we're going to get to a bunch of other ones.

But threads is IT has the heat.

IT has the heat. That's exactly right. And I think that can be fickle, but IT very much has the heat rate now yeah so I would put IT lower than twenty are lower than forty five. I mean.

the like mid yeah that's why I mean, I mean, the twenty years IT feels very, very likely that a last a little while .

but that's not okay fine. Yeah I like like, okay. Is that going to last little kind of a different question.

but they feel feel like it's it's got some legs to IT. Yeah IT feels like of a lot of these we are going to talk about.

I think this is the one all the rest are dead and of them like literally dead this week.

Yeah like like this is the one i'm ranking closest to zero IT feels like it's gonna. I have the one that last. The I think the danger .

here is when you do that, you call IT the winner. And I don't think .

it's really think when that .

that's why forty five IT has the potential. It's like a happy forty five, yes, but IT very much has the potential to be the winner. Some but some of the decisions they made in some of the the posters they have struck are actually dangerous for them. Yeah right. So it's not real time, but there's a bunch of people likely doing test to see how like a real time threads, even in the following feed, it's like algorithmic worth keeping you from real time posts from people you follow.

I mean, but the e is gonna a for us that .

sure for threats .

would be at least culturally, is essentially that IT turns into facebook, right? There is a version of threads that is hugely successful and totally culturally irrelevant, and that's what facebook is. facebook.

Facebook is a really good business, sure. But it's not like it's not ever going to get to what twitter was, right. Like that thing where people on cable news are reading tweets each other.

which might write I.

A perfectly reasonable case to make. Every tech choice we've made in the last fifteen years was wrong. And we should .

put back specifically, CNN is a bad podcast of people reading tweet to each other was a bad moment. Yes, in world, a hundred percent. And I think this is what zc a messara are talking about.

When they're like this shouldn't be. We don't want to do news. There were million reasons do not do news. Of governments are in the world at making them pay for news they're blocking in. Look, there's a lot of complication there, yes.

But I think if you look at the most negative impact twitter IT was the news became twitter and twitter lacked all nuance and was just a dog fight, yes, all the time. And I don't think they want to want to be that. So I said it's just like a is almost certainly give me the winner.

OK, yes, put the difference what put IT IT like thirty five, thirty five, thirty go.

Mass dan, mass zero. It's it's a life necessarily, by default, alive. IT depends on what you are talking about with this one.

Yeah.

because IT is definitioned untiled. If you talk about the decentralized network of things that is missed, no, but not talking about activity. I, I, I massed on the social net of many, many, many massed on servers, speed.

The David .

got there. And I mean, invisibly masted on the social network made up of decency. Servers of people can run and federate however they yes, I feel like that's unit.

I also feel like that's less than less. What masted on is Mason has leaned into Mason, that social being the thing, like they made this very intentional choice in the name of getting more people onto the platform, of making discovery easier to default people to what amounts to a centralized platform. You don't have to stay there.

You can leave if you want. You can confederate, but like madan and method, that social, which is one instant of mass dan, are increasingly the same thing. And I I don't know what that means.

I think there there continue to be open questions about what happens when master on gets a hundred million users, if literally the people running IT can afford to do that. I think you're probably rate that is pretty close to zero at the moment. But I also think the a that IT is unclear.

I don't think is true. Yeah, I think the concept of master on this zero, I think execution is like in the forties or fifties because because we're so early in this conversation about decency zone and instead for so earin the movement or whatever you want to call IT, we're so early on and IT that I don't know if mastered on is necessarily going to be at the most successful one. I don't know if like it's theories for for how to do this centralization gonna specially when you have threats just out there. I am trying to .

talk about IT and I .

got to close. I'm so sorry. So sorry.

David is keeping us from .

the truth and notorious activity of hater. That's me.

But yeah, I I think I think massed red on social in that concept and stuff is is much higher on the scale because are already seeing this. This is something that dan talks about a lot of. Are big master on user in the office.

He's seen at a turn. Everybody is as well. I don't want to be on my little servers that i'm on. It's actually more complicated and I want to be on the main mastered on server, and that's death for that whole platform whenever I want to be on the main one is everybody's desire. Then in the whole, the whole can .

see falls apart.

Yeah like then what have you done? You ve done. You've made a premier threats well yet.

right? And then you become something that threads can eat. Yeah and so .

like like forty fifty.

I think this really depends on what do you think social because I me there is one platform. I think they're opportunistically trying to grow users on that one. But you know, there are a very idealistic .

bunch over IT meston.

I am looking for them, but I like yoga was on decoder and he was based like I don't know how to make money and I don't want to right like that, I believe posture yeah yeah. And I think he just wants to grow the service because there's an opportunity to grow the service. But I think fundamentally, they are into the decentralized approached to the network which thread could federate into and could other cross flood with users.

Who knows? I will say this when we're talking about all of these and talking about the scale and survivability, we think a lot of that concept of growth, but that growth itself, like the growth at all costs, is a very like threats financially incentivized thing. And a lot of these, particularly something like mastered on that's not their interest IT is about that, the centralization and stuff. So I think for a lot of those users that probably be there yeah for .

ages yeah I think pother isn't. I wanted to do this on the go. And scale is like mining services.

This won't be a winner takes all. Yeah right. Like there can be lots of these that exist.

I that's the ideal state.

right? That's yet again activity.

Are all of some of these on here?

Next one up on the list, blue sky. Yeah, we're going in order from like possible to less possible. It's to get really likely.

But let's a hard dry blue guys .

is .

seventy for me yeah and it's it's a addictive seventy mainly because i'm on blue sky. I never use IT and a bunch of my friends in like academia use IT a lot and there are always like wing to over on blu sky so I wanted to go away.

So they stop asking blue y definitively where the weird dos went.

Yes.

it's really whether that's a, whether that's an insult or a .

compliment is relevant. All the .

went to luu. Ee went like if you mostly just went to like cause lower stakes trouble for other people. Blue sky.

yeah. And you have forty thousand followers.

They're right now. Nice looking. You.

no, I don't. I have four nice. That's and it's all my friends saying, why aren't you just like.

because look at threats and seventy five little higher than and it's .

not even it's also not even active in that thing we're not talking about today.

That's totally not that they have own dead.

That makes IT that gives you like a plus five modifier yeah yeah.

I believe if the detention from mon is between Mason decentralize social network a and as and social essentialize ed server that you can log on to, blue sky is at the far end of the detention, whether like we made a desensitize social network IT has one server. We won't even telling when outside to set up their own server, the protocol is in finished when we're standing up trust and safety on this server. Also, jack dorsey is an investor company.

Like you just keep like you just are trying to shoot IT to ninety. I was fired after my yeah.

all of these companies are gonna a run into a revenue problem. I think threads will solve IT very quickly again, master, and I think is just ideologically and killed blue sky. How are they going to make a dollar? What's the plan? This is a group of people that advertisers do not want to be me on.

right?

It's it's going to be some weird mixed subscription and contributions in the goal of IT is not to run the central alive server, at least from the White paper from like they're just very far away from where they started. They're running .

a clubhouse.

That's fine.

They're running club yeah yeah on and they just .

have to make some decisions longer there. Yes yeah.

I think that's right. I would put IT that they did a couple of things really right, like the way they thought of a user names were very smart. Yeah, they had some some nifty ideas about custom timeless ines that I continue think is very good, but I think they're going to end up having the legacy of being like like friend feed, right?

Really like we had a bunch of ideas before the products took off. They're going we did that first. Yeah, everybody. He's like all they invented the news feed and there's like some developer out there who look like he was my first care as facebook.

That's going to be the legacy. There's already some like connector software that connects blue skies, decentralized approach to the activity. Pub center approaching, you can see how that thing it's just designed to piss everyone off.

You like that that APP when you need a music services. yeah. And you're always think that will work and IT never .

does what will just see how this cuss. But my feeling is that is successful now because IT has a bunch of investor money in IT. Yeah and the the turn is coming yep .

right bunch more. These are all um i'm going to change the order appear subject notes is the next one I want to talk about, which is slightly different of subject.

is a company right now is that easily at sixty five or seventy?

So notes is even higher.

right? Notes just like along for the ride.

Yes it's seventy seventy five for me.

What notes your .

subject all of you make the brief case .

against subsection uh subsection entire business is taking a cut of other people's businesses. The number of people who have started successful substances is not large like it's large in the context of the internet or but maybe but the mediate casey has a really successful substances. More power to casey to taking ten percent of his revenue. This is a business that .

is founded on wales. So he does not seem to be .

creating new ones. And the ones has some of them are like, again, large amounts of money. Large amounts describes cultural relevance.

Shaky, the very voices of the world. Yeah, I Andrew, solvent of the world. I came up as an Andrew solvent reader in the year. Fine, right? But they've got a handful of those are making much of money.

They're taking a huge about you take ten percent out of Andrea solvin man or heaths ritson or very wise, the the top of the sharks in subject. You're taking an awful lot of money from those people to send nails what you're do that the service you are providing, they are not bringing new customers under the platform. Most new scribers on subjects are subsidies to other substance.

The recommendations that seems so worked. They're just moving. They're taking more money out of the existing subset base and .

not bring any people on the sub.

I and then in April, they are hitting a retail investors for cash in like a free public round of investment. They won't really solve in numbers, but we know subsidy negative revenue last year.

It's just Better like subject is in a place where the next thing they have to do is introduce advertising the platform because they needed big new source of revenue to make that go because they can't convince a new millions upon millions of morning people to pay them. And I know people are going to say i'm bice subject. I had Chris best on the code and I yellow him about not moderating subsides. I'm whatever you think of that, i'm looking at the math of their business and i'm saying there's a Cliff coming and that's why you're heating up retail investors or cash negative revenue. That's however, you think about the trust and safety function of sub stack notes when you're in that position and you are charging your your most popular creators the most money to 3d emails， eventually one of them is going to wake up and say, I want to have much .

male chain costs yeah there's other service. Yeah yeah there's so much free stuff that they can go and do this on and it's just doesn't seem.

yeah, I agree. So we're all agreement on that one. I'm just going to read you a bunch, and I want you to tell me if any of these are not at least in eighty five.

And then after that we can we can go to break. I have petal, which is objectively in ninety. I I P pel IT was called t two for a minute because they just trade up or like if this is the new twitter and then IT was pebble, it's gone. There's also noster, which is the other decentralizing the jack orc y is investing in. And then we have things like spatial and counter social and post and wt that social and cohoes.

I think these were all masted on instances.

No, sadly.

do we have any reason to not put any of these things that at least in eighty five I .

want to put W T. Social at zero just because I I think it's funny.

I think .

ah it's my inker about .

so they .

all have the same problem. They all have the same problem. Yeah, it's not users. It's technology. yes.

Are you going to make money? What's your plan? Let's say, let's say you have one hundred to the world's who is dedicated spudded users. Sattle has one hundred people who are logged on to IT. And if twenty four hours a day of user engagement from one hundred people, what's what's plan was to charge the money they .

will make flower grounds.

I think all these have a sort of blinker to view of what I would take to replace .

twitter masted .

a place to post.

We can live in that against master on.

the master on to ask as the company is like two people funded by a government and europe, sure. And one contractor who manages building you should go listen to that episode of deal like what's your art is? Like what there's me and clear and that's .

looking I was .

a server costs, i'm sure they're onna grow in different ways, yes. But as a company, this is just a social experiment. I think if you're W T that social, you might believe you're a company yeah .

you believe hard enough IT can be as zero.

And I think if your company is modeled after a twitter, a notoriously poorly run company, you ve just got some problems coming your way yeah I think the cold starter problems, how do you works of or how to get users should. And they're all trying to compete on weird ideas about what people had a problem with on twitter. And I think they'll miss the fact that a lot of people like how DRAM that a lot of people .

like how twitter I could away. Yeah, IT had that car crash .

APP what we made twitter, that car crash and .

my twitter person of the day yeah, I love telling people who don't use twitter about IT and they're just like, okay, yeah, anyway, here's was going on with my kids.

Do you see Kevin dant tweeted, i'm on threats with the burner, can find me no way and it's like, that's what people are here for her.

I respect that this is not tweet.

I'm on W. T. Social with a burner.

We, so this is threats to lose, basically like nobody. He's won this yet but IT very much feels like the next twelve months .

are threads to grew up yeah and I I would put IT just the mire image is it's a negative forty five for twitter it's a positive forty five threads but it's about to be election year yeah a lot of weird stuff is going to start happening on these platforms. Just a lot of weird stuff and those numbers can move. But I think threads their attitude about news and real time information is just the pressure on that is just increasing yeah.

that's gonna collide with election in a pretty real way yeah .

and sport into sports. The NBA season has started, were still in middle of nfl season yeah like that audience is wanting to move the threats and it's just like not .

happening yeah I I think that's right. The next twelve months, I think, are going really fascinating like I think many of these we will not even mention in a year. And I think the stakes are going to feel super high for a lot of .

these folks as we want. And I still in for the a lot about it's got two stars .

on product hunt at a five OK lifeway res has gone.

I'm just like it's the non toxic social like that's great. I'm happy that there's a non toxic social word.

Okay, we've officially alex is now google in wt social, which means for this segment has gone.

that it's all over. Baby, take a break with rack, avoiding that back.

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back. It's later around time. We're still open for sponsors as we know they are letting porters deprecated.

Yeah, some people have been posting at various forms. I hit him. I might be half. Thank you very much. Appreciate you. And still looking for a major american ship company, it's sponsor the thunder wrote for around and just trying to will things do IT you have to make the media company you want?

Like fishing board is just thunder able four cables.

they are very expensive. I'll take the first one, which the only thing I wanted to talk about this week is metal gear solid lta snake ater now running in and real the top that was the first thing on the rundown, and David moved IT.

I watched IT was great just watching highlighted and in our .

editorial meeting today. So there is a lot of weird passing, progressive stuff that happens, enterprise software. And what I was thinking about was David to run.

Can I just say you, just before you get into this, this might be the greatest video game title of all time. Middle solid delta coal and snake, either just wives too. That's so good.

Uh, this is one of the greatest great games ever made. IT was A P. S. Two game. IT just ruled. IT ruled. Now IT still looks like a video game that he get a new game play footage now new mentioned, still super looks a video. But this game rule.

this used to be called something else. This was metal .

solid ser. Yes, medicare solid snake.

I didn't get past one.

Oh my god.

i'm still in a box where the number .

of things that you and I just have to stream together just on this show alone, it's all of the middle ears now, just a full on week long quiet stream. Yeah, blah. indy. And I believe pump up the volume, mister.

be a good time. Everybody can join us can be great.

This is.

we're going to start by cast called copy right in front in which you'll just watch all the things they will we have to watch.

I'm more excited this game than I think it's a defining video.

Are you onna, take that day off .

and just burn through a metal year? Yes, probably. yeah. Mine is a little tip .

of information we got. So we've talked a lot about google into trust trial. And one of the big of questions has been how much money does google pay apple to be the exclusive search engine on all the apple vices? We knew the billions of dollars.

I had heard numbers as lowest five and as highest twenty, but these numbers have come out, but they're only come out and close court and they're not being given reporters like the the access to information has been a huge open questions during all of this trial. The year time at the report on thursday that the actual number is eighty and billion dollars, or at least in twenty twenty one, google paid eighteen billion dollars to apple to be the default. Are changes in safari.

There was also interesting something there that when sorting a delay testified, he said, and IT seemed like he was kind of guessing at the time, that one thing apple may be worried about is that if IT took the deal away from google, google would use all of its many powers and popular IOS apps to do things like promote chrome. If if every time you were to gmail, IT was just like, hey, I download chrome, a Better browsing, like a lot of people with downed chrome, and they were very afraid that google was gona do that. If IT lost the search deal, that he said this, like IT was a possibility, but not that he was certain. But the time report said that, in fact, google was thinking about doing exactly that and was building things spot late and was going to start to get people to use chrome by using its other tools on I S.

How is that any different from right now? If I go, if if one of you send me a google dog and I tried to open on my phone so far, my phone flips out, yeah, unless I go and I download the stupid google dog's APP and log in and and use.

that might be the single worst mobile program no.

对， it's slides. Google slides.

okay. Gram GLE, google sides.

sheds and docks are all yeah that i'm you know how every year iphone comes out on any phone comes out like this processor is crazy fast like it's all just there for her room and like this, run google sites because IT probably can. My phones are going to get hot and just .

slow down and crash google .

sides held size on dex think, fold the stupid right bRicky going.

But well, so to answer your question would be kind of like this is not a perfect energy, but if you were to like open a pages document on your phone and google, just throw a pop up being like ouldn't, you rather use google dox or like curtly.

no. If you try to .

open a google doc in google, if you, if you open any web page in chrome, and chrome is like, what would you rather use oogly .

dogs .

set up on fire and pRobing.

That's that's my William story. That's how you get me to never want to use your products again.

Yeah but also IT you get a lot of people .

to download, this is true.

And in google, and you also have .

the google dox up on your phone.

Now, I had to bully me for so many. Yeah.

they're to put my notes in for a story .

on the train. This, this is the thing, right? And if you, if you're google, and you can say, stay logged in the youtube, in the youtube APP by logging into chrome, I hate, and I get people .

to down load chrome, ftc, do .

something about.

they put google.

I think IT do more possible that google would never have actually done this. But the threat of doing IT, right, at least the D. O. J would tell you, is enough to keep apple, along with eighteen million years from walking away from google.

I want you just talk about that first, second, google, if you're listed, I will also make you the default search on my phone for eighteen dollars.

Yes.

so it's .

interesting .

the context this is facing. So in europe, digital services act is in force. Apples gna have to let people pick chrome gu have to let people switch, develop browsers in various ways will just see if this regulatory intervention ally does something, notably ly, for the past a decade, IT has not right, right. Like there have been browser baLance, search baLance on windows pcs and android phones in europe. They do anything, do anything.

Yeah yeah. There's a lot of evidence that shows that the the thing reboot of the phone, and this is what search engine do want to use.

Everybody picks google, right?

Picks google in large part to D, O, J would argue, because they've never heard of any other search engine because of the way that google does IT. Yeah, people are like, what's a koa and why would I use that? I'm just gonna k.

google. And so, and this is the heart part of the D. O J cases. They have to a wind this all the way back and essentially argue that google has made IT so that you've never even tried another search in because it's impossible. And that is a very hard case to argue when google is like there are they're just right there like to do IT.

Here's what i'm curious though the only browse about I can see working. You turn on your iphone and says you want chrome far. I yeah and I think that's a coin flip. And that's in this case, to the people think that that's a coin flip.

That's two brains. Everybody's heard of that which which is I agree, I think it'll be really faster. And I would bet in somewhere in apple park in cupertino is safer for android, is just sitting there. Yeah.

they made so much for windows once. Yeah, I didn't, didn't go well.

I think they would pick this fight backwards if they had to. Will bring IT to google if google is gonna ing IT to them yeah and there like there's this like mutually assured destruction thing that has worked for everybody for a long time, again, along with eighteen billion. And either it's gona stay that way or it's gonna get all on wound. And I think it's gonna get .

pieces puzzle, which I think is pretty important in le right now, is just a bunch reporting this week that apple is behind an A I or feels it's behind an A I needs to get Better day. I D put in all the products, as you expect, and the apple's privacy posture will keep you from going over in up and data sharing a bunch. And you know what would be a good source of data for N A. I ool is search queries. Yes, we know this is a great source for google, and that's how apple gets a bunch of differential privacy shield the input totally for A I system.

It's on some little chip just right on the boards so you don't have to worry about IT.

You can see how they .

would my tim cook 是 没错。

full vampire friends. Uh, you will see the dynamics there is interesting because I might be in apple's long term interest, not take the 1 do in order。

No said no one ever.

If there's one copy, I can look past eighteen million hours that it's master.

The only I really .

I was OK so mine is shot out .

to me a thought he has really, really great story up on the site right now called is my coworker AI bizarre product reviews leave gain IT staff wondering really, really good story. It's basically reviewed, which is one of the the sites for IT. Again, IT does like USA today and a lot of local newspapers review is their kind of wire cutter.

And a bunch of new reviews appeared on IT and everybody's like, I didn't write that. And then when they went, they looked up. The people, a lot of them, didn't seem to exist. And so IT seems that this was all pert, like this was stuff that again, IT wit partner with another company who is using A I to just write A I turn and then try to let go sell you stuff. I don't .

have these ideas.

Well, it's not going in great. The reviewed stuff is is pretty upset about that. They just recently went on strike over union staff with get IT so with news girls to no you .

I could see .

you getting ready for IT so yeah, the story is really good. It's it's really, really while there's a budget stuff, we still don't know yeah about this, the rational and everything like that, but sucks for the folks that work there.

I'm just saying if you work in a business and anyone in your business, we should just get some AI charm to get google search results to make panny, you should leave that business.

This is a product posing coon and apparently instead of like posing cos. It's just specks .

yeah or i've been on the flip side, if you are the schema using the aid to cheat, google out a penny lambo .

live up ah it's great .

for you but that internet sending and this is the force that we went IT, here's mine. I'm very excited about this one is humans. A I pin was named times gage of the .

year time one one of many.

to be fair.

it's just who know ever seen IT? Yes, I also have .

named IT my daddy of the year. It's really serious. sure. Uh.

we learned that IT has some integration GPT IT somehow in IT. And IT has a light called the trust light that lights up on and listening, which I would refine you is apparently all .

the time that's .

a little glowing.

just a little .

just a piece of yellow. I will say this time thing is interesting in that IT has a couple of new details like the trust light and the fact that IT has a magnetic attachment. That's something IT also has one of the funniest disclosures in history.

So again, you're putting an unannounced product that really no one knows anything about on your best inventions of twenty three list. Bold strategy. And then IT has at the end, investors in humane include time coaches and owners. Markinson, yeah just a tough look like disclosures our brand we love a disclosure that's a tough this product you've ever seen IT so sick, it's funded by my best.

the best inventions. Twenty twenty. Well, I will say this the gazes ask him about the pen .

if he brings the ai .

IT back. Yes, I hope you he's not gonna trade ohana you couldn't me come on. I am faciat by .

that thing. It's first launch of everyone. There's so much we don't know they have done this like what eight months s long hype cycle at this point.

Human, they've been out there talking about this. I think that original ted talk where he showed off and or lied about a bunch of demos was in April. So we've know about this for a long time, and this thing is either going to be great or it's going to be a total disaster. And I have a very hard time. Imagine anything in between, and I have a much easier time imagining total this.

So there, what's some reporting that can open an integration? Same altman might be investor in this thing. There's also reporting at same moment and Johnson eve are working on their own thing, which is fascinating because a cumin e is bunch of example designers that's got A A weird email chain yeah just in general just a we train a lot of a lot .

of thoughtfully considering materials and .

then also you betrayed me and like it's all in there and then i'm i'm still stuck on the basics you want to call bEthany? I does not know bEthany y phone number.

And how does IT .

call bEthany does ah does IT have a service plan? How do you can figure the the I E I just just the basics. I just want to know the magic.

And i'm telling .

you if this thing requires an APP on your phone to function disaster. yep. And IT had IT definitely does.

I'm so excited for this. It's going to have to be fifteen hours long and it's just then explaining how IT does basic thinks I cannot wait.

It's very good. I should disclose that we are also .

owned by human.

human, human. Now that's .

not sure. There is a number of discussions. Ode, this is an exercise of viewer.

No, I don't think they're warning. No, we did get this time. We did get right .

and at the shell before because .

we think we missed once. And as a note, we we're here for IT closed the table with all quick.

Somebody talk about nevi X, F, T, X trial. No shut out is worker are a few .

things to mention. Before we closed semicon free was on the stand and the F, T, X trial today, liza's tdi has been there every day. She's having the time of her life covering the trial. Yeah.

we're going to have a on the show the next week or so.

IT come talk about David. I went to the premier of the bloomberg dock about F, T. X.

Yesterday and people tell to to doing a great job ever trial. That's incredible. So she's had the time of life and i'm eager to see what time to say today.

And then we have, uh, incredible. I I guess you could say a spooky story about someone who has been tormenting professors online and is one of our best liot ever. It's very cool.

Go read. It's great. And then lastly, as you all know, we've been covering google obsessively.

This year is the culture goole may place. At last days of disco. We gotto put the marker down and see, like, this is the world we made.

We move on. So in covering google and google s web. And we have a really great one this week for me, who's been on a run.

Yeah, it's called the restaurant near google. It's about a restaurant called thiou near me in new york city, which is the whole name. The sco has broken out of the internet.

People, yeah, and you want to bunch other businesses around the country. Notary near me is very popular. Barber shop near me is very popular.

And he just went talk to these works about why they named their businesses this. And we had a lot of common sec. This is like when people the the a one auto shop, yes, they're just trying to beat the discovery over them.

But this is this is a new way of doing IT. And of course, google and striving like that somehow works because a lot of our google coverage involves antin amic. But the story is great.

The pictures are incredible. And me, I said the food was good, which is important. Check out on the site. Now that's IT where way over, subscribe to installer, listen to decoder.

listen all of our shows cool, good.

The only one left that's that's a very chest drain, al.

And that's IT for the verge cast this week. We'd love to hear from you give us a call at eight, six, six verge one one. The verge cast's production of the verge and box media podcast network are show as produced by Andrew marino and liam James. We'll see you next week.

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