Welcome to the verge cast the flagship podcast of atmosphere looping sounds. I'm in friend David piers, and i'm inside. All i've been is inside these last few days because i'm in washington dc, where it's freezing cold and snowing.
And not only is IT nasty to be outside, but there seems to be one of those cities where everyone just forgets how to drive as soon as any kind of precipitation happens, like even the idea that IT might rain. And everybody just starts striving a thousand miles hour into medians for some reason. So basically, not only is IT just kind of growth to go outside right now, it's legitimately dangerous to my health.
So the last few days, i've gone out to walk the dog and grow grocery shopping, and that's pretty much yet. Here's serving for Better weather, both for me and for a lot of folks really soon. Anyway, we have a great show for you today.
Now that the holidays and cor over, we are back to our regularly ly scheduled verge cast programing and we have a bunch of good stuff free. Today we're going to talk about tiktok, specifically one part of tiktok and even more specifically, one sound that has taken over that one specific part of take talk in a totally fascinating way. Then we're going to talk about streaming services because this is going to be another big year for streaming services and not everyone is going to to survive IT.
All that's coming up and just a sec. But first I have to find the space heater because even just looking out, the window is making me cold. This is the verge cast. We'll bear back support .
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Welcome back. So a few weeks ago, I noticed I started hearing this one song on tiktok over and over and over and over again. That itself is not surprising or interesting, right? I mean, there's a new viral thing on tiktok once a week.
And I think at this point, I know thirty seconds of every popular song on earth just because of tiktok, but this song just immediately jumps out as different. It's not the backing track for a dance chAllenge and nobody y's using IT to make like cute videos of their kids. It's the opposite actually.
The song seems to be the official soundtrack of terrifying tiktok videos like video showing big foot sightings and deep see monsters captured through all of those always blurry camera shot or i'm talking about videos with captions like things they didn't want you to know about, but mostly it's videos about the north sea. North sea tiktok has been booming the last couple of months. And this song is the soundtrack, big ships crashing down in the huge waves, workers dangling from oil rigs while the water royals around them, deep, dark water capsizing ships or tossing a bunch of shipping containers overboard into the sea. This trend seems to take off really in late november, in early december, and is still going strong now. And IT seems like practically every one of those videos has this song underneath.
And 黑色 卡。 Here's high he. 第三。 那个。 So we 在。
This song is called hoist the colors. IT was originally written by hands zimmers for the not very good movie parrots to the carribean at world. It's this early scene in the movie where a bunch of pirates or people accused of consulting with pirates, are about to be hanged, and they start to seeing a song together at the gallows. Here's what that sounds like in the movie.
The version going viral on tiktok is by a group called the base singers of tiktok. And the story of the song starts with this guy.
So you can enter me as bobbi waters, also known as bobbi base. My real name is not Bobby base. That's just my stage.
If you're a regular tiktok viewer, there is a decent chance you've heard of bobbi too, or at least seen some of his videos. He's gone pretty viral a few times. He started posting on the platform a couple of years ago during the pandemic.
I was in my je new york college and everyone went home. So I just had all this time on my hand, I was only taking like one online class over the summer.
Bob's friend showed him a tiktok of this emerging trend at the time, where base singers would add beast other songs on tiktok.
成为 软件。
They just give them some real like low and energy. You know, Bobby, as i'm confident you can tell by his voice, is a best singer. He dog the trend, and he started doing the same thing do, adding a song on tiktok and adding a deep boomy base to IT.
I don't. Wait to talk.
This group of base actors became kind of a community on tiktok.
Tiktok was a great way for basing is to kind like add what they do, whether to be a duet or whether would be singing a song like an ocd lower or just doing their base thing. I drew a lot of attention to basing in general. So a bunch of Young bases were like, oh, I didn't know I could do this so they would hop on APP and can to do a some more thing. And so now we have all this like new generation of bases come up, and then around the under twenty twenty of, and like the sea h anty craze started to happening.
You remember the C. H. AntiChrist, right? Especially the one song soon made the weather come. IT was like .
completely ubiquity for a while.
Everybody, including these base singers, was making season and I videos for a while. Things got weird during the penda. You guys this particular video from a singer name, Nathan Evans, and a bunch of other folks, was probably the apex of the whole thing. The scientia trend got so big that Bobby and a few other singers formed a group called the waterman. They got a record deal and they .
made an album of. The city.
On his own tiktok, though, bobbi kept making stuff do, adding other songs to add base, and just seeing what worked part of him on tiktok as you just try stuff and you see what works. And a super busy cover that he had done of hoisted colors did pretty well.
Body also happened to really love the song.
just like one person just started seeing. Then everyone joins in, all the pirates join in. Its kind of like this, sometimes like, scared is like and do like.
Just imagine if everyone who you're about execute, just start saying the whole song and early the whole thing can here IT lends itself very, very well. Sounds like that sounds like misty mountains. They're very like bed. And to me, these like slow, minor songs that kind of almost folky, almost like working. See shani, like I host the colors a couple of different things, because the first one that I did that really blew up was with a an amazing singer called melda.
That video bobbie told me, took him from two hundred thousand followers on tiktok to over a million. Bobby in milldam ended up making and releasing a full version, which is really cool. But that's not the one who are talking about. Neither are the other experiments and duets that Bobby did of voice, the colors, all of which keep doing well, something about this song that people on tiktok really like. But then so one morning.
as soon as I woke up, I was like, skirt, let's do IT. And so I just went over to my computer, started planning IT, started a session, started reaching out to some people.
He ended up with a full of different base singers, most of whom he either worked with or do IT IT.
or both three, seven vocalists on the track that we ended up making. IT was me. babbly. IT was divided.
He was one of the soloists, arlo way, who was one of the lowest voices on the planet. And he has the third very, very, very deep solo. And then for other background singers, we had a danny bravi.
C. E. Also know as big grave he had, like all the bear tone parts.
Luke Taylor, who we built now, uh, won the dues from the wallman other super low base. We had e box, also named a whose remains Nelson. And then we had the snake le. His real name is Jessie. I kind of just put together this kind like dream team of singers.
Bobbi spent a couple of weeks arranging the song, sent out all the individual parts to the singers, and had recd themselves a bunch of .
times each. So made a folder with documents and folders to put like your audio files and videos. They weren't as recording like one line for one part. I gave each of them like a couple different parts to sing, like base one in base to.
I gave danny three or four different bear term parts and had them all record probably two or three takes of each part, because if we just had seven voices on this and laid IT sound cool, but one sound like as grand as, like all of them, like layer with like a ton of different forces, kind of like acquire. We don't have acquire. We all sing together because we were all over the world, so we just recorded a ton of different tracks. I put them all together, and I produced the rest of the session.
Bobbi also got some help mixing the track and had some friends add violin and shelf at the beginning and put this whole thing together. A few weeks later, the song is done. Bobby makes a quick music video for IT, and he upload IT to one of those sites that distributes your song to basically all the platforms everywhere.
The song did well from the beginning, not like massively viral well, but solidly growing fast. Good song, people are the thing. And that's what I did for most of twenty twenty three. Then north sea tiktok happened.
I can't prove this because tiktok search tools are terrible and incredibly underpowered and basic. The us. But I think I think you can trace the beginning of this trend to a video from an account called U.
K. Towns in late november. This account has been around for a while, mostly posting videos about cool, unknown places around the U.
K. But then, kind of out of nowhere, IT posted a video about this beautiful, pure water from a glacier which blew up. IT has fourteen point three million views on tek tok.
Right now there is a decent chance you ve seen IT. And then the next day, november twenty th of twenty three, that same account, U. K. Towns posted video with the text the north sea, the most treacherous sea in the world, written over top of them.
IT was all the stuff you now see everywhere, this huge aircraft Carrier looking ship rolling in the waves, waves crashing up on a dock and almost knocking someone in the water, big storms, big water. You get the idea that video now has one hundred and eighteen million views. And IT has this .
sound playing underneath these and ears. and. 找 一道。
North sea tiktok took off in a huge, huge way from there. I asked tiktok to pull some data for me, and the numbers are pretty wild. The north sea hashtag has two point nine billion global views on tiktok, two point two of them coming just since the beginning of november.
That was a three hundred and fifteen percent increase in views in those two months. The north sea tiktok hashtag one hundred and nine point five million views, ninety eight point nine of them in the last two months. That is nine hundred and twenty percent increase.
This just happened out of nowhere. There were older tiktok videos about the north sea and scary stuff in general, but they tended to sound like this. Or this. Oh, or this.
Different vibes in my right.
but as the north sea trend took off, the best singers became the unofficial official soundtrack of north sea tiktok. Tiktok told me there have been more than one hundred and thirty thousand videos using that sixty second clip, and that number was from a couple of weeks ago. It's still going up really fast. For his part, bobbi says he doesn't remember the first time he noticed how hoist the colors was being used, but he definitely didn't see IT coming.
I had so many friends and families send me these videos where they they like, because the sound starts off with my voice and they like Bobby. And so they ended to me.
And he turns out that when you blow up on tiktok, you tend to blow up elsewhere too.
Right now, the video is, and everywhere, streaming is doing like almost quite drupal as IT Normally does, which is really, really great for all of us.
The song, in particular in the north sea tiktok trend in general, actually got so big. IT became kind of a parody of itself, which honestly i've love. There were people like Chris olson who were like enough, who is the colors? Why is to truck me? Feel like the north sea is something I should be fearing daily in my everyday life, like it's a present threat that i'm going to somehow end up the. And then .
there were people making fun of the song hand what is high. That jokey version of poised .
the colors itself also has gone kind of viral. It's ridiculous. My favorite, one of these videos, by the way, is just like a person in the bathtub slowly splashing the water back and forth while playing that newly version of the song.
IT kills me every time. But wait, i've come this far, and I have not answered the real question here. Why this song, this version, this clip, the honest truth is IT turns out is a little hard.
And no when bobbi added the song to tiktok to be used as a sound, he didn't pick the sixty second clip that everybody now uses, and he didn't go in target. Scary and north, a and big, deep base that makes you feel feelings every time you see IT. Somebody just picked that song and made a video and now everybody else does IT too. That's just kind of how IT happens. But mostly though, I think it's just that at this in a funny way, north, a tiktok is almost a perfect representation of what Bobby says he was originally going for with the song.
I wanted this song essentially to sound like you've got a giant ships full of mountains just growing through like treasured sea and stuff like that, just essentially like if earthquakes we're singing. I just wanted everyone to like, feel how much base you can actually put in something because if you listen to those courses, it's just so full and the base just cut so hard and it's just you feel that right in your chest. So having all these big voices to like envelop, like just the vastness of the sea and what's in there because he is big. And so we have some big voices to to add on to that and tally.
at least on my for ufa, north y tiktok is starting to slow down a tiny bit, but host the colors is showing up in all kinds of new places. Now i'm seeing IT on those videos that try to test whether you have different fob as which is horrifying. Some have strange natural phenomenon.
Many, many, many videos of monsters that I used to think we're fake, but I don't know. These videos are very convincing, all sorts of things. In every case, the sound does one thing IT increases this feeling of unease, like your headed towards disaster. But you have no choice but to accept your fate, your deep, dark, stormy wave crashing, basic fate. As for Bobby, he seems to be enjoying the run, but is also cognizant of not wanting to be the hoist, the colors guy or the sea ante guy forever.
There's always that part of me when I see some thing is blowing up or if it's around a holiday time and I have a holiday tune that i'm like, I just feel like I need to put as much stuff out about this as possible, like every time I would like reach a new milestone I would share IT at.
And then then sometimes we create old videos that we've done to try and like boost IT for a lack of a Better term or maybe it's the best term milking IT for what IT is or what we get. But essentially, the next thing that is the big question for us, and we don't have control over how long a trend will last on tiktok because many people have tried to continue trends. But it's one person cannot do that.
It's the massive people subconsciously decide whether a trend is over or not. So this north sea trend, much like many before, and we will die down at some point. But I am really glad that a lot of people are, because their fund videos to just watching.
there will always be a next trend and the next dance craze and bobbies gonna go find something else entirely to think about. He's busy right now actually, both with the water's next album and mother projects he's working on. But if you want to post something that scares the heck out of everyone who sliped to IT in their feed, you're just not beaten this one. I don't think it's going anywhere.
you.
And 萨克。
We got to take a break, but when we come back, we're going to talk about the life and death of serving services in.
我不要 打, never so we know.
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Welcome back last year was a huge and messy one for the streaming industry. There were strikes, there were huge merges. There was a lot of CEO bitterly, there were layoffs. Body was selling everything to everybody and just talk very complicated and IT just seems like this whole industry is trying to figure out what IT is. And I think twenty, twenty four is going to be a lot more of the same.
So to preview all of IT with me, I brought in alex crane, who knows all this stuff and also holds the title of, I think, the world's last paramount plus subscriber. Hi, alex. Hello, OK.
So here's what we're going to do OK. We're going to talk about streaming. We talk about streaming a lot.
I feel like we need more ways to be loudly wrong about the streaming industry. So that's what we're going to do here. Basically, i've set this up.
I went through and came up with I think it's either eight or nine of like the streaming services people care about. And you can quibble whether there should be ones I don't care. This is the list we are, which is sort of fun.
It's like I went through and just roll down all the ones I could think of and then went and looked at the list. And all the other ones were ones that as I don't really care about that. So I worked at well, and we're just going to go through and basically try to figure out if this is going to be a good year or a bad year for that streaming service.
So we're just going to go up and down, no nuance, no scores out of ten. It's just good or bad here. That's all doing that's good.
I limit. okay. So we should probably start with netflix just because netflix is netflix. yes. And my guess is this is going to be one of the least complicated ones for dualist to figure out here. What's your sense on what's coming for netflix to as .
far as new stuff goes, I think the big one is three body problem. There's a lot of weirdly there and both excited about IT and terrified of IT. This is like the second and a half adaptation of the story. It's already been adapted once for TV, and IT was made into a film by the same people making the netflix show.
IT feels like a bad sign that I didn't .
know that the movie never came out of.
Okay.
they shot in two thousand fifteen. They were like, never mind, but we need to make something so that's why the whole netflix still happen. And like they split characters up. Like if you're big loyalists and love the books, there's a lot of confusion going on. But I feel like like you've got that but then you ve got returning stuff like brigette, which I personally very excited about.
Bridge ton, I don't know how much of our audience at the verge guests, but i'm pumped for IT and it's got that the chick from daily girls like that is her big moment. It's could be great. There's new resource like the new macho show that's on TV.
A lot of the reality shows are returning. We're going to like have this final season of qui, yes, is going to be just have all of the weird bobbi drama lingering behind IT. The drama is probably more interesting than to show itself.
I feel like netflix s has got some returning shows that are going to be really big this year. String of things I don't think is one of them. I think that's twenty twenty five. I think they are shooting IT this year. And so we're going to wait for a stranger things the'd got some the returning shows. And this is going to be the year like we find out if if netflix is learning anything about how to program their channel and not just throw everything at the wallet is see what six.
But IT also seems like, I don't know, I just I keep thinking about this, uh, like a word shows where the guys from suits come up to present awards and IT was like, oh my god, this is my favorite show and it's like, suit is like an old show ah this is not a new thing, but I had this new life. And netflix, to me, IT feels like netflix is like the most slam dunk winner of twenty twenty four. Unless IT does something monumentally stupid, it's like the password thing seems to be working. They can just licence shows from everybody now because they the only ones of money IT just seems like it's gonna work.
I'm hesitant to call IT the winner because I think this is gonna the hero. We start to see a lot of its strategy like solidify, and we targeted if what audiences is actually like that strategy because they did a lot of they made a lot of moves last year. In this year, they kind like they have a very different programing slate and y've had from years past. And this is the year where we see if that programme sly works because it's a lot of reality TV, which is doing well for max and has done really role for a netflix. And then it's a lot of like these prestige shows like three body problem, and I could very easily to see three body problem like crying doing really, really badly.
Yeah, that's the same point. I think I was going through a variety did this list of like the shows people are most excited about this year and netflix had more of of them than any other service, which is not really surprising. But you're right, I hadn't really thought about IT until you said IT.
But netflix is doing like ultra cheap reality stuff and then like ultra expensive prestige culture shaping kinds of shows. And then nothing in the dle anymore would you to be where ennefer x lived was in middle, where there's just like, here's one hundred shows, do you like any of them? And they're not doing that at all anymore.
They're not doing IT. They're rely on suits they're lying on.
They think they can buy those shows.
Now yeah, they can buy those shows. And i'll be curious to see that actually works. I would say they're not the winner as much as like the most consistent probably like like I think they're going to do well.
They're not going to bomb where we're all being like a man and deflects really screwed the peach this year. But they're not going to but we're not going to be like, man, netflix had episode for episode hour for our the best streaming service out there. I don't think that's true.
okay. But we're still thumbs up on netflix for twenty four thugs up. Thugs up. I like IT next one, disney plus. This one I think, might be the most complicated.
I'm gonna be horrible first to say them down.
Oh, maybe not complicated. I'm also thumbs down on disney plus. I think this might be a terrible year for disney class.
Yeah, like ego just came out. Theyve released all five episode des at once. IT was a great show. I really enjoyed IT like time. I've had that much food in a while because I didn't to care about the rest of the marvel universe to enjoy IT. And then they have got atha, which is like a spin off of one vision.
Yeah right.
It's a spin off of one division that's coming away at the end year. And then we've got a star war show. I think they've ve got one star war show this year, which is the akali, which is set before all the star wars stuff.
We know it's basically like we're just going to tell a cool story about ji and that could be really, really cool. But there is a lot of fatigue with disney ah and IT is holding fast. They've held a bunch of shows. There's bunch shows like iron heart that are just getting punted to twenty twenty five because they realized they were making bad TV dare devils. Another one I was supposed to, I think, come out this year got plans to twenty twenty five.
So disney is not in a great place but there's big astro s because who you we were everything going to talk about you is coming into like going to be a good, great year for who you and at some point is probably gonna merge with disney and all of that content will be in one place. So it's like disney plus baddie, a strict until who loop is merged IT to IT. okay.
That's very much to cause I agree on this is I think going through the list of stuff people are excited about, disney plus was kind of alarmingly low and and you're rate IT, it's all marvel and it's all star wars and then it's like random cool documentary that disney plus has more of than people think, but is still not how you get a thumbs on this podcast.
They're doing under the national geographic brand. They're doing like an adaptation of the story of Martin or king and a milk of x and cool cast in that that could be really, really cool the national geographic shows or need. But they're also not winning awards, not starting conversations.
Yeah you know win the streaming award, the streaming words. With that, i'm sorry to say to your point, the asterisk is a big one because the next on my list is who you wh is kind of a funny thing. Who is now like the most reliable dumping ground for stuff on linear television.
And IT seems like that's just where a lot of that self lives. Now we're going to get pickup in a minute. But other than the stuff is on peak, a hou is just gobbling up these shows on broadcast television and on F, X. And on some of these other channels, the people really like who is eventually going to be disney plus. Do we think that this year like this, who you just get wiped off the board because it's not even going to be a thing at the end is my .
for I see that happening and lessons like weird contract stuff because it's like the exclusive streamer for, I believe, A, B, C and F X because they're owned by disney. So I can see contractual stuff, meaning IT IT happens in another year. But I think it's really going to happen this year.
And the stuff is really good, like we've got a new season of fuel, which is just going to be a whole bunch of women in their fifty something being absolutely horrible to this guy plane from A O and I personally, I wanted nothing more than color lock r and give me more like being mean to someone on TV together while wearing like seventies good. Or that sounds great to me personally, but you've got old something like reason not to be, which is coming into season twenty twenty. I think he's going .
into season twenty. Season sixteen I gave up after season, told people what you .
season six had a really good episode. Just you just go watch one episode from that one season, and you're you're fine. You'll be all cut up still. A lot Young people watch. I'm seeing IT increasingly on my tiktok and like teens watching IT and getting into IT because a group kind of IT with IT in the background and now they want to pay attention oh, dam, mom watched this. And like I was five, was I allowed to watch this shouldn't been finally I think you went like nine one one which is another of those kind of shows were like, I can just put that on and do my laundry and have a good time and that's personally the kind of stuff I want yeah, if you like, there's a bungee stuff coming to who this year that's gonna really, really good.
Yeah, I think that's right. Who who doesn't seem to have the one kind of giant thing everybody is hoping for, the like maybe season to a few, is that that kind of penetrates into this is the show everybody is talking about. But that's never really been who lose thing, right? Who lose thing is is is the place you go to watch the shows, you kind of like, yeah guiltily and don't really tell anybody like that, that who lose thing. And it's a very .
good thing and it's Better fit from the fact that it's got all of the effects, content and effects is still like making TV in a way that a lot of other of those like basic cable channels stop doing. F, X, is still doing IT, which is why you're getting food, which is why you're getting shogen, which is a remake of a record chamblin like mini series from the eighties that they're doing. And I keep seeing IT everywhere.
And I like the candidate I like are i'll watch this even though the original was boring as hell but like fx is really thoughtful about programing. And I think we're going to see that in hou. They're going to benefit from that in a way that netflix just doesn't have that those chops. Yeah I mean.
funny enough. I think who who is probably a thumbs for this year. And I think the extent to which IT is a thumbs, I think you're right, will probably determine whether disney plus is a thumbs up or not.
Like yeah who feels very important to disney this year because disney otherwise is in kind of a weird place where it's so reliant on just a couple of things like we've talking up. But who who is the one where there just like we just have this sort of giant late of cool stuff that a lot of people like and disney is like, dear god, we need that. Because if we keep making marvel stuff, people will leave.
Yes, I mean, I watch marble too, but I wanted mix IT up. Yeah.
hundred percent. alright. So what? Thumbs up for hulu.
But IT is, I would say, possible that we will not get to give who luu score at the end of the year because I will just be part of this sing place. yeah. Ax, yeah. exactly. All right. Next up, max, which to me, max is the most split between there's a content story and there's a corporate story and there are complete opposite of each other, which has made me very torn on how to rule on this company this year.
What do you think the content story is good? right? Like the content story is good, you've got all of the stuff. I personally don't watch a lot of reality TV. Everybody knows David love s.
IT. I do just H, G, T. V. forever. I'm fine with IT. There's a new kids breaking championship on max, right?
That's very exciting. Yeah, my sister a lot loves the naked dating show like we had to watch so much for IT.
But cool, family friendly show seems like, yeah, he's great.
It's great. Love that I out with the mom. But theyve got a good stuff, max. The content wise, they've got something hitting everyone of those barkeep, right? It's sitting.
The people who just want to go, you know, you can watch friends and do your laundry, you can watch a reality T V shows, and you've got your big prestige stuff. And it's got a lot of prestige stuff coming this year, a new season of house of dragons. I think the last of us is in twenty twenty, I think one IT now. So I think that's getting punted. But but there is a bunch of stuff that's going to be coming from my benefit of having H B.
O. Yeah, there's like a doing show coming this year. There's a true detective I started. Have you watched the .
first new tre true detective, my favor shows of the year so far? Like I ve watched all of you. I think i'm only allowed to say it's really good. I really like that. I think people are going to really like IT.
It's it's a fun time. I have not watched yet.
but I promise I will catch up. You just got the of the year. yeah. I think I think theyve got really, really good haunted there. I think they're still strugling with the user interface.
And I think honestly, for me, that's going to be the big story of the year is if people get their user interfaces, like in a place it's usable consistently, they are one of the worst. And right now, they're slowly improving, but we'll see they're y're doing a lot of sports this year. I know I was curious to see how that cause for them you know the sport side Better than I do.
Will we've been kind of delaying this in a weird way? Like bleach report is part of max. It's zone, do you know tab in the APP, which makes you think it's a big deal.
It's right there on the roof. The HBO and IT was supposed to be kind of an ad on with a lot of stuff, and they've kind of delayed that and delayed IT. And it's not super clear what that's gona look like yet or whether it's going to really work.
But obviously, Warner brother's discovery has writes to lots of N B A games and lots of other sports. So I would assume middle start to happen because that is the plant. But, and this is the corporate story, one brothers discovery, the company that owns max, seems to be less and less invested in the idea of max as like the future of the company.
David, as love has been talking about this all the time. They're back to they're pick on fears. They're back to selling content to other streamers like i'm not confident that this company cares a lot about max anymore.
The other side of the content story is we're seeing a lot of stuff that's going to come that was made for HBO, not for max is only about like there was only a couple of shows that are exclusively max that are still around harkin hacks. And I think the secret sexy zed of college girls that show is is if not ending, is going to be in a bad place. It's big star in a rap is leaving hacks.
This is its third season, and I think it's pretty probably done. Harlequin is probably going to be the only one of those like max originals that survives a very long time. It's doing well. Everybody likes a critically, a clean and so it's .
gonna keep going. You can always greedy reboot batman, that's what we ve always learned. Any greedy reboot, a bad man show is going to do just fine.
You're going to yeah just read, do IT and you're going to go. But as far as like it's other big stuff, all other programing is really dependent on on its its linear channels and pulling IT from there. So like the regime and how of the dragons, those are all H, B, O first shows.
So i'm curious to see what happens with max. I don't think IT goes away and tirely. I think IT sticks around.
But I think like that moment we had a max was the best streaming service. I think that's done. Yeah.
it's going to be so interesting to see if we get the end of this year. One of brother discoveries still has a tonto debt, is still kind of emerging money trying to make all of this work.
And it's gonna to a point where either David as of and the rest of the executives, they're going to have to just like hold their nose and say we believe max is the future we are all in even if he gets fired and runs inside of business or they're going to say, you know, never mind, let's have this be a nice thing on the side, but not worry too much about IT. And we're going to go back to mostly being a place that makes things and sells of other people. And if you do that, yes, you're not going to beat netflix. I just don't see that happening like i'm a very light thumbs down on max for that reason because I just don't leave they have not burn the boats on streaming, you know I mean.
well, they put other films. Other films are on that flicks down, right? Like that's who they sold all their .
films and that's a finding good thing and more company should do that. But that's not how you make max .
win yeah max, I think i'm a little thugs up just because IT does have so much content and IT is it's gonna stick around but I see like I can see twenty twenty five being thumbs down OK two thousand and twenty four. I'm still like check IT out right?
That's good. This we disagree. This is good. Yeah and next up this is I just switched the around because this actually matters a lot both to a zone story and to the max story is paramount plus, which there are rumors flying.
The paramount plus may someday not be a thing and be a part of max. There's rumors that Warner brother discovery or someone else is very interested in buying paramount global or national amusements. The corporate income is confusing and strange, but none of that seems to end in paramo, plus being a going concern for much.
Lucky say, I am probably the most bullish on I A .
hundred percent believe that you may be the only person left. I said in the intro, you may be the only person left on airm list at the end of this.
I think that of all of the big streaming companies, IT is the most thoughtful. It's been doing IT as long as anybody, right? Like originally started as cbs all access IT was doing IT before max. And a lot of these other companies thought about doing this, the strategy and it's been a slow and study like winner. And they they already knew the advertising business.
They were they were serving as before anybody else and and doing well with the they're doing sports before anybody else and doing well with the they were live streaming before, like max still struggles with live streaming, and paramount plus been doing IT for a while. Text tech wise, they're in a really good position. Content wise, they have like solid content that, that makes the money, right? You've got to start check stuff that nobody talks about.
You've got to do people do you seem to watch, I will say I have I heard enough people say. I love the start truck shows. Why does nobody talk about IT that IT has kind of entered the actually people do talk about IT category. It's kind of a little bit of .
a you ve got all the tailor shared and stuff is also happening. You've got this is probably just for me in the three other people that have been subscribing to pair mopsus since it's cvs l access. But else beth, which is gonna the second spin of the god wife. So we've got that coming a new season of evil, which is from the same like team I was say.
evil is great. I make a lot of fun to param up. Plus evil is great. It's so weird in the best possible way. And I assume .
there's another N, C, I S, just because every year there's another N, C, I S. And people watch that. I don't so many people watch IT though.
So I like I am kind of english on IT because they didn't stop yet. So why would they suddenly stop now? I just to be acquired like this is a company that owned by primarily a single person.
It's got one big stock holder and it's been on by this family for a fairly decent amount of time. And yeah, you might want to say, OK, i'm going to check out, but I can't see her just wanting to go and be part of like the maxim algae tion, right? Like like that's fair and a lot of that.
So we heard where Warner brothers discovery was thinking about buying IT, kicking the tires. That has just disappeared. We ve had quiet.
There could still happen. I'm not gonna. It's not gonna happen. I'll just be really, really surprised. But I think it's just kind of like these of it's still the whole thing crew that had the number one network on television for like a bitch ilan years.
They know how to do that once, and I think they're starting to figure streaming out Better. And I don't think they're gonna be netflix, but I think they're gonna still persist. I can see them being very comfortable with being in fourth place .
if they can get there. Yeah no, I totally buy that logic. I'm still comes down on parm plus. I think fair as bundle of content. I think paramo plus is gonna for a giant thugs up on p cock or H B or max or wherever IT ends up. I just don't think this company is going to stay interested in having its own streaming like I just not know what fourth place gets you at this point anymore.
No, that's the thing is they're comfortable with IT because IT gets them monthly IT just get some additional revote.
make sure a red stone rich, which is something that's yeah like .
like there's still making money off of IT. They've weren't as kind of a victim of zero interest strates as a lot of other people. A lot of people put a lot of money into that, and they certainly too.
There was that the ece prequel, which me and one other person watched, and we had a great time, but that was a dumb move to ever make that show. Why did you do that? And they they have fewer of those misses like they generally are much more bullish on the shows they do have and those shows. And there much we're thoughts about how they spend money on stuff. They're not throwing money around.
That is true. Paramount plus, there is a good case to be made. And you're making me really think my thumbs down. That paramo plus is like the cockroach of the streaming industry. It's like it's never gona win, but it's also never going to die.
Yes, they're not doing the big swings that make you flicks, but they are also not doing the dumb things that kill your streaming service. So I think that I think that's fair. I still think they're more likely to get bought this year than not. So i'm sticking with my thumbs down, but you make a convincing case and I I sort of hope and wrong for your sake.
See, I would have until last week, I would have said it's not gonna them. It's gonna be p cock. And then peacock, if you want to move on to p cock, let's do IT. P cock just absolutely crashed you with sports, right? Like they came over the biggest streaming moments ever in the history of the world.
And so it's like, oh, damn. And IT worked. They had, like was at twenty three million people watched the playoff game on on pick.
still less than who watched match season finally.
But but still the fact that that many people watched IT and IT worked and people were happy is like that's a big win for streaming in general, I think.
and can pick up partly that into long term success is anybody's guess. I would generally say no because otherwise, when you think there they are scripted programing, it's not very good. When you think about their unscripted programing is not sports, it's not very good.
It's that is twisted metal a ratio and I will not stand for so twice. Metal is the best terrible show I watched in twenty.
twenty three more people watched that in paramount plans. They've got sports going for them. And maybe maybe that that has been enough for many channels, including S, P, N, for pretty years.
So I don't want to to knock IT for that, but I was kind of blown away by that. I'm still processing the fact that peak A I cannot win because I was ready. I I I was a ninety on my go ninety. I was like the fact that IT isn't getting stepped up by max right now shocked me. I still think that could happen.
yeah. I mean, there is an interesting thing of you. You have max, you have paramon plus and you have p cock.
And I would be absolutely shocked if all three of those are three separate companies at the end of twenty years twenty four who buys like it's there have been lots of rumors that come cast which owns abc universal. And I guess disclosure is abc universal is a an investor in box media. We make a netflix show.
It's pretty good, alex. Less paramo plus. There's about there's been some rumors that contest is interested in buying paramon plus, which I think is directly to solve what you're talking about, which is that pec has rates to really cool things and just doesn't seem to be able to make a show that breaks through to save its life. Like poke face was the closest sik guy, but when is the last time you talked about poker face?
You know, I mean.
and they did, and it's a great show. People should watch IT. But if peacock has not broken through yet and IT has lots of lake singles and doubles, but IT has not had sort of the giant win that you need .
Carry up plus had images like five years ago.
Yeah right. Like i'm sure cbs all access was out. Her winning hard might be in acquisition mode. Paramo plus might be selling to everybody. So I think there's some mix of stuff there that just seems like it's gonna get sorted out over the next five month.
But i'm going to thugs up on peacock because personally, it's very important to me as the place where I watched the office and parked in her creation and brickland nine nine. But also because comcast just seems to have gone all in on this like in the way that I don't see Warners was a discovery saying we need streaming to work. Contests is saying we need streaming to work and IT might kill IT in the long run. But I don't think IT kills IT this year. I think comcast is more likely to be a buyer and a seller this year as far as I can tell.
Yeah, that's that's right. Comcast is facing an existent al crisis because everybody staring at the same thing with paramount. A lot of these people who are highly dependent on broadcast TV and basic cable are facing an existent crisis of what we do next.
We need a good streaming service. yeah. And so they're going to be very, very motivated in a way that max and that flix and some of these other like the tech focus, the more tech oriented .
streaming services don't have .
to be told pick them up. So thu, but it's like i'm shocked to do that. Okay, it's it's all the sports. It's all it's .
it's rouging thugs up for pek a yeah like IT right two more ago. Apple T, V plus.
Wu sums up. But that's because i've been watching bunch of the shows that are coming. Palm royal, incredible. I don't know what I am allowed to say about that.
It's great person.
Yeah, if you like food, you probably have a great time with the manhunt, which is about the hunt for john William booth after the sash they should have. Lincoln is certainly a show and and it's coming. And people are going some people are going to watch IT.
Some people are not IT still got something like for all mankind, just finished, wrapped its fourth season. The fifth season is coming. Foundation is still doing really strong way for them.
They continued to be like the best place to watch. Science fiction never sees that a severance should be coming in. Twenty twenty four is shooting as we speak. So I am really bullishness on IT and exists entirely at like the permission of tim cook.
I think this is one of those things where if tim cook leaves and we get another CEO and and he doesn't care or he doesn't care as strongly about science fiction and weird like catty shows, IT could be entire strates. But for now, it's it's doing really strongly. It's got some of the best programing out there.
I agree. I actually think other than netflix, apple TV plus would be my bet to be kind of the big winner of the streams of twenty twenty four. Apple has all the money in the universe. Its hit rate is, I would say, be the best of anyone in the streaming game right now.
It's god really good. yeah.
So it's got on the point or like I will watch the first episode, almost anything that comes out on apple TV plus just because the odds of IT being good seem to be higher than almost any other service. So I think you're right that I IT wouldn't be shocking if all of a sudden they just cancelled the whole thing because it's sort of immaterial to apple.
But at the same time, apple is relying on apple TV plus to sell vision pro and give you stuff to do in your vision pro. It's a way to sell iphones are to wait to a people into the service business like I, I, I don't see that being a problem. So I am with you on my heart comes up, I believe, the almost exact opposite about the last one, another list, which is amazon prime video.
This is, I would say, my hardest tums down of the year really because amazon is in a place of trying to be more thoughtful about where IT invests. IT is invested an enormous amount of money in a lot of things that don't work. On prime video. And I think this service is going to look more and more like amazon sports streaming and less and less like netflix over time. Yes, I think this is not going to be a good year for prime video.
Yeah, they haven't had like amazon prime history, not had a lot of hits. You have the voice. You have richer, which I just started watching yesterday, is fine. You've got jack ryan. You ve got a lot of like, manly shows.
football dudes. Like, that's the dynamic here.
right? And then you got a wheel of time, which I told I really need to watch season to. It's a delight.
But I ve been told that I haven't felt the first to watch IT the rings, the rings of power, like lord the rings. S is an absolute boondoggle, the most expensive TV show ever made. And how many people watched IT and how many people certainly isn't driving subscriptions like and you know.
wild is the second biggest boon dog, or I can think of, is probably sit well. The other, yes, massively high budget flap on prime dea.
They have spent money stupidly. They are probably the afternoon flix the most guilty of of embracing zero percent interest rates to make garbage. Yes, they got a leadership crisis. As far as the streaming service goes, they can print money though.
That's that's the one thing they can do because just they they're forcing ads on every single subscriber, which means they're going to be able to print money anytime you decide to say, check out that, read your show because I really keep starting about the large man, you going to be stuck watched like you're going to make the money. So IT is definitely one of those things where I think IT is going to rapidly become something that amazon forget. Stay on, right? And the sports will do well.
And those couple IT shows that rise to the top will do well, and that's all we're gonna. They really good at buying movies that are already out in the marketplace that got really smart about that. Salt burn is an example of that. So I just like we're going to see more of that and then just going and buying other people stuff and putting IT on rather than trying to programming IT themselves, which is probably for the best because they haven't been very good at program again.
Ah amazon I T going back to being essentially A A subscription like movie rental thing. fine. great. Like when I rent movies, I went IT mostly through amazon because it's easy in the application, works pretty well. And like that will find a good but as a cultural powerful house streaming service, I just don't see IT. And I think if if i'm an name is an executive looking for ways to pull back like, oh, all of that money we spends on these shows that no one likes and watches, uh, maybe that's a good place.
And and they they've started doing that, right? Like they cancelled a ton of stuff last year. They renewed stuff and then went back and they cancelled the they pulled a up. I believe they pulled himself from their services well, like like they themselves know that nobody y's really watching IT and and they need just kind of like that's why they ended the ads. It's it's a win win for them yeah the few people who are watching, they can make some extra money off of you.
And if you want to pay three more dollars a month to watch their bad shows to not see ads, amazon winds again. Yeah, are IT. So just a week up before we wrap up here where both thugs up on that flix, you can change your mind. Now, this is your last chance.
I've still tentatively thumbs up on earth, like, yes.
disney plus, where two thumbs down with a holus zed asterisk, who we are, two thugs up with a disney plus sized astra max. Your thumbs on, thumbs down, param up plus your thumbs up and thumbs down. You're very optimistic about streaming this year. I like this for you.
It's going to be a fun year for .
streaming business wise. Well, what interesting is I think the thing that might make me most wrong is that because of the strike last year, there is just going to be a blood of good stuff this year and next year that so like I think all of my potential dome day predictions, I might just be a year to too early on, which is the thing I most nervous about. But i'm holding fast to my beliefs here.
Peop were both comes up. I would say me slightly more aggressively than you. Mine is just a Michael Scott size thugs up at all times.
A apple TV plus were both thumbs, and prime video sounds like were both thumbs. Yeah OK, that's right. right.
I like IT. Alright, rapid fire and they're going to get that to here. Give me two other predictions. You have anything at all about the streaming world this year that I can hold you against at the end year?
I think who is going to be merged into disney plus this year? I don't know what the name that, that service is going to be. Presumably disney plus, maybe i'll be star who can say, but I think it's gonna en this year. And the other one is we're gonna not be talking about ads as much this year.
interesting. okay.
I think ads is a huge part of the steel, and I think you and I will probably be talking about that much a lot. But I think the general public is not going to be thinking about ads on their mining services this year. It's rolled out happening.
Everybody is everybody. Y's got IT. They're all going to be making a lot of money off of IT, and they're all going to start behaving more like broadcast TV in order to make those advertising dollars sing. But I think you and I like the general public, is not going to notice much to that this year. Well noticed in a couple years.
I think that's probably right then. And that's actually kind of related to my first prediction, which is the fast the ad supported channels like to be and free vy and trudeau, and that's something out there. Now I think that's going to have another huge year that's been growing a lot.
We've talked to bit a bunch, but I think now that ads are going be everywhere, you're going to see advertisers say, oh, well, we're advertising all of our streaming. Let's put even more into some of these fast channels that are going very fast and also viewers are going to say, oh, well, i'm looking at ads everywhere. What differences that make i'm going to go find these other services that are free and all make me log in, in all of a sudden that ease of user experience.
If there's ads anyway, it's a big win. So I think that stuff is going to continue to grow. It's a mess right now like there's tons of channels. There's actually a lot of good stuff out there. But trying to find IT is bad. And so what I might happen is one of these big services might, as a way to get into the odd business even more, adopt a lot of these fast channels and actually make a good interface out of IT. So I am hopeful that, that's what happens this year.
And I I think it's gonna care about. Plus i'm just saying that they own pluto. They've already got a bunch of kind of fast channels already on their service.
I can see them being really smart about that in a way everybody else is. And the guy who found a pluto u is now running payout plus as well. So he's run both now. So so I like I said, i'm still very bullish on otherwise. I think IT would be max and max would be done knock to well.
i'm excited for all of that to become A P cock feature in and twenty four can be sick and that my other prediction is that someone I don't know who but someone is going to actually build a universal streaming guide that is useful and good and will probably cost money, but will be absolutely worth every penny. I don't know, maybe to be the apple T, V P, maybe it'll one of the like, just watches the real goods of the world.
Bit like this is such a big problem. And as all these companies go to ads, they want you to find their stuff Better. So like netflix now has actual incentive for me you to be finding netflix shows more easily.
And so I think somebody he's going to figure out how to put all this up together in a way that I can actually find this stuff. I want to watch more, easier. That may be a pipe dream.
but boy am I hoping that train. Yeah, I love this for you. I think if IT happens is not happening this year, I think it's going to take networks a little time to realize they need everybody else. So like twenty five, twenty six, I can see them finally being like, oh yeah, we should play nice with everybody else but until the netflix is going to be like now screw you guys, we got stranger things. It's coming back to worry about IT.
I got eleven months to believe in this before IT becomes very out.
This how wrong I was living everybody .
route for David, I free. I want this some. And then we're going to come back and we're going to do how line question actually. So you stick k around for a minute. This hot line question is kind of exactly for you.
I love.
Hey, it's lee from the koto with new ipad talk. We spent a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series, diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.
For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buy? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.
And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech can hire away cofounded ers? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than you'll hear all that and more this month, i'm decoder with the litel presented by strike. You can listen to decoder wherever you get your .
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I were back. Let's do a question from the verge cast hot line. As a reminder, new year, new hot line, you can always email verge cast to the verge, cast common, ask question questions, or call eight, six, six verge one one to reach us.
We try to answer at least one question on the show of every week. We got a ton of good ones over the holidays. Actually, I think we're going to have to do, like all hot line epsom here in the very near future.
But for this week, we have a question that, alex, this could not be more you centric. So, uh, let here IT a verge change. This is what from texas.
I'm calling to see if cray's found any cool ean tech. I C S. Would love to get the run down.
Thanks 哦。 I did see some some e ink tech. Well, as I say, yes.
tell. So some of IT.
I was a lot of concept stuff. There was obviously the e toilet that we all saw for collar, which I think was a surprise. Everyone, including eating.
including potentially color, like you said, someone person made that and they were just like, because there's something they're like, see.
as let's do IT just built in and on right when they got there. This is fine, if you will notice. Yeah, so I got, I got to go to the eating booth.
They don't actually have like a shoe floor present any more than they mainly just taking meanings. But I went into the meeting room and got to see all of their stuff. And they have like all of the new, all of their different displays.
There is a lot of signage stuff. They're still very, very focused on a signage in a way the rest of us aren't. But there was some phones from, I believe it's like the fifth largest smartphone maker in the world. If you heard of .
info enix.
not in america, but other places, they had the back of one of their phones has the prism e technology on IT, which is what we saw from bw. A couple years back. And what we also solved, the novo had a cool laptop with the same tech on the front of IT this year.
Like once every four years, somebody tries the what if we put in the ank screen on a smart one thing.
And here for IT, every single time, in both cases. Instead, if you read a book on the both companies are like, what if you could just make the back your laptop or the back your phone look really cool, interesting.
like a, well, paper thing more than anything. Yeah.
hundred percent because he does like three to four colors. But IT doesn't really, really well, including White. IT makes like a really viBrant weight, which you don't get from eating.
And then you get like you choose a couple of other colors. You have to preprogram IT. It's not gonna let you read a book and school or anything like that really.
Sy tage technology and IT looked cool and you'd able to charge your phone with wireless charging and just have the back look, how are you want instead of being like, oh, I need a Green phone. You be like, oh, I can have a stupid person on the back of my phone. I don't know.
Homer, sub sen, I was like, what's a cartoon character? I want all of that homer. So that that was really cool. I was really excited about that. The inova was obviously really, really cool.
Other than that, there was a lot of a lot of the smart home people are tossing, eating in as like kind of little displays for sensors and things like that. We saw a couple of those from smaller brands. That's not a new thing.
You ve been doing that for a while, but it's nice to see other people adopted. And as much as I begged v to suddenly have seen a really cool E E in catch, SHE didn't, to my knowledge so I blame v entirely for that. Not the smart watchmakers is all Victorious fall.
Please tell her to to fix that. But but yeah, the phone was really cool in the way that these companies were just like we eat doesn't need to be about reading IT doesn't have to be a display IT can just be really cool wallpaper and give you customization on a device where you traditionally haven't had IT. And I want that that's kind .
of less ambitious than what we've heard from being over the years, but is also probably more practical. They're like this isn't going to be the year eat becomes a television like it's it's not this isn't going to be that year either, but they're like this is a thing it's actually useful for and this is something you can do now and that actually that .
tracks for me yeah you know what? The eating fox. And there is still very focused on signage.
That's when they make the most of their money. That's what's doing really, really well for them. That's what they are bullish on.
And they're like we get really excited when people experiment and put IT in other things, toilets and tablets and and phones. But this is our focus. And so watching these companies be like, oh, maybe we should also lean into that signage. Part of IT is nice. Hopefully next year, we get something with really cool, refreshing.
That's what I really want finally give us full color and fast refresh ate and and I I will buy all link all year everything. That's the life I want to live.
I will know onex books who who makes a lot of the eat tablets that I really like um I love that company they weren't at. So they'll probably announced that. I would expect in the next couple of weeks, probably a mobile world congress, we will see their announcements. And so we will probably get some really cool .
stuff then I like that, so thumbs down down eating at twenty four.
I mean, now always thumbed. I wish I could be thumbs down. Like like that's just bias. Like it's it's total biased on my part.
We saw a lot of cool technology and else last year that's getting a little more mature and companies have had a year to figure out what to do with that. So we're going to see some of that in the marketplace pretty early run. Color e and color e ink readers.
I saw a really cool one that was using color ink in that eat in booth. I keep room with the name of that right now. I think he was the big me one on its books, also had one.
And IT looked really, really cool. But I want to see IT not in a booth. I want to, like, spend more than A A net with that to say how quit is. But the color eating is getting a lot less goofy .
like the amount of time I have spent waiting for just this one little thing that just give me a color .
kindle IT was so close to like amazon. I'm really hoping anisa amazon noit like we think up panel now, panos, get out there. You Better have taken like forty thousand meetings with e and get, I want to see some color candles.
Let's do that, man. If penas fixes the kindle after making the whole surface a thing, he'll be a legend forever listening .
for please.
Right, alex, we got to get that to here. Thank you. As always you as always, there is tones more on everything.
We talked about tiktok streaming the works of the virgin c. Com, and we will put lots links in the showers. Look for that. This shows produced by and and liam James the verge cast is a verge production in part of the vox media podcast network.
If you have thoughts, feedback, feelings, favorite tiktok sounds, or just eat gage to know, you can always detailed verge cast at the verge shot. m. Alex, new line.
I will be back on friday to talk about A I elections. The apple watched the vision pro and a le ch. I'll see you then rocking all.
Support for this episode comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced clb. Hey, it's lee. From decoder with new ipad talk, we spend a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.
For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buying? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to you right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.
And what is actually going on with these acquisition s this year, especially in A I space, why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license that can hire away cofounder? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month. I'm decoder with new life to presented by strike. You can listen to decoder whatever you get your podcast.