Your front door is the key to the smart home
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Welcome to the verge cast the flagship podcast of powered front doors, which is a thing that I just learned exists. Thanks to this episode, i'm my friend David piers, and I am cooped up inside and have been for several days. Obviously, a lot of people in the U.

S. Have been really horribly affected by hurricane Helen. I hope you're all doing OK. Our thoughts are obviously with everyone dealing with all of that where I am. It's been fine.

It's just basically been raining for four days and my kid has been out of daycare and he's been sick. And so it's just been a lot of inside time. It's been a lot of running around in the basement.

It's been a lot of watching the same old mcDonald had a farm youtube video over and over just spent a lot. You, you, you just grow to appreciate outside more and more. I'm going to real like touch grass moment, except that still raining so there will be no grass touching for a little while.

Even the dog or there is starting to lose IT a little bit, I think. But anyway, luckily, we have the verge cast to keep us on track and doing stuff today. We have two things we're going to do.

First, we're going to catch up with gene to a about all things smart. There's been a lot this summer. SHE was at ef a looking at warn home gadgets.

We have some protocol news with matter and thread. We have a bunch of stuff going on with google and apple and software of everywhere, all kinds of fun stuff to talk about. So we're gonna play round around and catch up with her.

Then we're going to talk to Chris welsh about this new run of earbuds that we have this year. Apple just released some new ones. Google released some new on.

Samsung released some new ones. Both released some new ones are missing some oh, nothing, just released some new ones that i'm really interested in. So we're going to talk to him about this new slate of your buds.

But also, we're going to do a mike test because as I continue to say and really strongly believe, microphones matter the way we talk to A I, the way we talk to the assistance on our devices, the way we talk to each other. Microphones in these airports matter a lot and they don't get talked about enough. So we're going to do what we occasionally do on the show, which is put some really, really bad audio into the podcast.

And i'm sorry in advance, but you know, we do IT for the greater good. We also really fun, hot line question, lots to get to today, super fun episode. But first I have, I have to go outside. I'm just gonna go like, stand in the rain like a one thousand nine hundred ninety RAM calm star and just like stare upwards for five minutes and then we're going to get to IT. This is the verge cast.

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Welcome back. Alright, i've spent outside a breeze dinner. I got all wet, overrated. Very happy to be back in dorks looking in screens. Anyway, let's kit to IT. First up, we're going to talk about smart hom stuff because it's been a minute since we talk about smart home stuff.

And Normally, I like to have divergence gene to be on every once in a while just to basically sadly ask her why matter isn't Better and why the smart home is in fixed. And we're going to do a little bit of that today. But there's also been a surprising amount of interesting smart home news that kind of points to something bigger going on.

There have been a lot of new gadgets for your front door, which I find fascinating, smart locks and video door bell and that kind of stuff. So I think that whole space is really interesting. I want to talk about that.

We've seen some new software from google and apple that makes IT easier to administer your smart home, which I think is a really big deal. And we have some process news because matter continues to be chaos. We have to talk about the chaos that is matter.

Let's get to all of that with jenne. We're just a gonna bounce through a whole engine news. I'm very excited about IT to IT jane. Hello, hi David.

Pleasure to be back. It's been too long.

IT has been too long. You're going through a hurry. Ane, right now, we should just tell the people that if you suddenly disappear in this segment is four minutes long because you're like deep in hurricane OK.

Helen has been paying as a visit this morning. Thankfully, we're not as bad of the poor people in florida, but it's it's been a bumpy ride so far. So fingers crossed, will make IT through for sure.

I find myself very curious in the middle of this, what happens to your smart home situation when your power goes off and then comes back on? Is IT just full, insane chaos every time the power blips in your house right now?

Yeah, because everything talks to me IT is kind of scary actually, especially when that happens in the middle night, because so many things would be like, you know, connection restored or offline and and make voices from every corner of the house. Robots in particular, robot vacuum, Cameron's security systems, a lots. Yeah, IT gets a little chaotic.

And then obviously, the notifications on my phone, like offline, offline, offline, you can turn there's off. But because I obviously testing these things, I always turn on all the notifications and then I have, you know, IT was IT gets a little crazy, especially cameras, because when they go on flying, they send you ert and then they come back online. So this morning i've was woke me up numerous times throughout the night when the power went out.

Thankfully though, smart lights have managed to fix the problem where they all turn on automatically when the power comes back. That used to be a terrible issue where, you know, they would be set to default. And like all the lights in your bedroom return on a two A M when the power came back on, that's no longer problem. Thankfully.

that is really like the first act of a horror movie. Is all of that stuff happening .

all going crazy?

Well, i'm glad it's IT seems to be settling. Glad i'm glad everything okay.

Yes, i'm dinged.

We have themselves to catch up on um we have not done our gene. Why isn't matter solving all of my problems? Checking in a while else, we're going to do that. But uh, you mentioned right before we started recording that you're working on A A smart lock thing.

And I just want to do I I want to a run a theory by you and then I I want you to tell me what you think and they were going talk about the news stuff er around and I think you could make a pretty compelling case that your front door is the most interesting space in the smart home right now between what's going on with video doorbell, what's going on with smart locks. That stuff is like mainstream and very good and suddenly like super interesting in a way that I feel like everything else in the front home is like kind of cool, kind of a mess. And it's like your front door is like where cool, interesting, good, smart stuff is happening right now. What do you think? Good theory. That theory.

I know, I agree. I think the front door always to asia with has been a really key part because it's something that appeals to everyone. I mean, smart lights are really fun, robot vacuum to have large appeal. You they are still niche.

But the concept of just of easy access to your home, not worrying about losing keys, being able to let people in lock, unlock your door remotely know who's at your front door, you the front door is the gateway to your house and having the capability to sort of remotely monitor, I always know what's going on, having control over the entrance to your home is something that everyone is interested in, even people that live in apartments. You know that smart entry ways, because smart him, quite often apartment well as sort of get left out a little bit, but not when IT comes to smart locks and smart dobell there. There's lots of devices, Taylor, to those types of living scenario.

And IT is an area that there's a lot going on right now. There's a lot of change happening, but there's also it's also an area that always had quite a lot of chAllenges, primarily because of power, and that's an area we're seen more sort of innovation. And I think I will take a while.

There was the smart door that came out a couple years ago that was like wired for power with everyone kind laughed about a little bit. But you know, I think ultimately, most homes, new homes as their built or homes as they remodeled. Wiring your door for powers is going to make more and more sense, both for lighting and for paring video door bells for paring your doorknobs is battery power in the doorknobs is probably one of the biggest pain points with smart dialogues.

You know, most sort of ordinary people who decide to to get a smart dialogue, you know, when they realized they have to start changing the batteries every three to six months, is like, this is, this is not smart. This is a pain, especially IT locks you out because, you know you've ignored the warnings after the seventh or eighth time that they've sent them to you. So that is interesting to find, you know, to see the solutions that are coming around there.

And then we've also got uwb is a new a new technology we're seen in dollops. Apple quite recently announced that they were adding capability for unlocking smart rowlocks using uwb chip in the iphone. So we're starting to see sort of a real shift there.

What's interesting about that is the sort of the hands free notion of you being able to access your home without even having to even tap your watch to the door, let alone pull your key out, because uwb radio will automatically sense that you are there, connect your door and unlock IT for you. So there's so much interesting going on, but you you need the power. And actually, something i've been testing recently, which sort of ties into all of this, is wireless power testing. Something called we charge, which is a wireless power transmitter and IT can wirelessly power a doll log that i've been testing, which is by a company called Alfred.

This has been around forever, right? I feel like i've been hearing like science project things about wireless power for, like the entire time I have been covering technology. Is this ferial now? They is, somebody actually gonna have this thing .

to me at point. Yeah, well, you can buy this right now with this dollop of IT. It's not sort of off the shelf. You can have to get touch with the company and they can arrange for the installation. So it's a little labori ous.

But I was talking to the founder and he said they're actually developed a retrofit design so that you can just plug a little transmitter into power, put IT on a shelf and then plug a receiver into your power port of, say, your dollar cks. A lot of dollar ccs have power ports. And then that can actually end up allowing you to wirelessly power your door.

Now wireless power, I think, is maybe not the solution ultimately to all of these issues. I think wired is always generally gonna be more reliable, but IT requires so much more effort for installation. So I feel like there is there's always maybe going to be a middle ground, you know, especially for retrofit. You're going to know having the options to do something other than use. I mean, have you use do you have a smart door lock?

I don't. It's actually the one and only smart home device that I think my way to allow me to install. But you haven't i'm gonna do IT. It's just like I met the point where i'm procrastinating, painting the things. So i'm not sure i'm a good like version of you know being ahead of things on home projects, but it's on the list.

It's on the list well. And the the battery is an issue. I mean, the August is a great smart look, for example.

But you know you have to change the batteries every two to three months. Smart locks will go at least a year and a year sounds great, but actually that still that still a lot. I mean, it's like, do you remember to change your smoke along batteries ies every year?

I remember when I beats at me to work in the morning. That's when I remember to change smoke.

yeah. So I mean, and if we could have wireless power, or wild for power built into our homes so that you can have you can power your video doorbell, you can power your dog lock, you can power some lighting around your door, maybe even your security panel. You know, IT just I can see sort of a much easier transition to these types of devices rather than having to constantly mess with them and recharge or put new batteries in. And and so I go through so many batteries and I hate him like this, is so an interesting space for too many of these services also .

make that part really complicated because I I think the bad thing is really interesting because I think like I I want i've on to home for three years now and i'm still discovering all the things you're supposed to do and like a routine basis. Uh and I just like I have I have furness air filters, right, that I just supose to change every three months. And I more or less remember every three months, not fine.

It's every three months to take thirty seconds is fine. But I feel like the problem with way too many of these smart home gadgets is not just that you have to charged or uh, reinstall batteries or whatever. It's that, that process is annoying.

And I this is probably gotten a lot Better with these gudger over time. But IT feels like you basically have to like. Amount the thing, charged the thing, reinstalled the thing, reconnect the thing, would probably won't work the first solar.

There are all these little pieces that is like just walk up to IT with A W A battery, like pull a thing non sick battery and put IT back on. I'm good. I will do that three times year.

Yeah but that is not what the process.

And he feels like that to the problem, why this power is a miracle of of chemistry that I hope we accomplish some time, but just say, making these year to change the battery and that seems easy.

That is true. There are some way you have to get like a special tool. And it's like.

no yeah, that's just silliness as far as i'm concerned.

Yeah although but speaking the wildest power, I was just a effet in berlyn and they the wireless power consortium have launched the first back for key wireless power. That's wireless power for kitchen appliances now, not necessarily Evans and fridge because you don't really need that, but for your countertop gadget. So air fries, microwaves, blenders, kettle so that you know you it's basically induction power.

You have induction coils underneath your counter, which can be retrofit, also can work with retrofitted induction cooktops. There are some new ones coming out that have this capability built in and your countertop or induction cooktop can power your blender or a fire. And you they were showed me a demo at if o where you just basically put the appliance on account to top and IT turned IT on and IT will blend or coco whatever IT is you need IT to do and what's win you know, power in the kitchen is a chAllenge. There's, you know, never enough outlets. The cord never goes far enough where you are trying to reach.

I really do think the thing where everyone has three gadgets and two outlets is like a completely universal experience of being a person in the world in a kitchen like I, I, I can picture in my head the tetris I have to do every time I make coffee, just in order to have the the grinder and the cattle and the milk brothers, which is my favorite fani address of all time.

Uh, I have to just, I know which one is which I feel I could do all that like in the dark now. And it's ridiculous and bad because it's three things in two outlets. And if you can solve that, Robin, for me, i'm in, I love this idea.

Yeah, a happy person. I know I meet you. I have the same issue. And I also got recently reading my kitchen and just still, even though I asked the electrician to put in as many outlets as you could, I still don't have outlets. And this, you know, again, a lot of these films very much in the future.

But there are I can see a lot of benefit here, especially in the way that your new the obviously does require all new appliances and but the way that they are manufactured because they don't need cords, which means they don't need any open access to them. They don't have batteries in. It's not a battery charging.

It's not like tea charging which powers the battery. This is just direct power transfer. So the device itself still face the same as not of a giant battery in there, but it's completely sealed.

So the gentleman I was talking to you was like, you know, manufactures can design, say, your blender so that you could just put the entire thing in the dishwasher and because there's no open ports and that also could reduce things like wear and tear is quite often it's the power supply that goes first on the on a lot of these devices and these gadgets in your kitchen. And so and if they also said is only ten percent less efficient than wired power, so pretty good. Yes, I think the future of no wise anywhere in our house is kind of interesting one.

Oh, I agree. I also think I I like I I admire your optimism and also I feel like i've been burnt by wireless power at this point too many times that i'll believe IT when I see IT. But I do think the the kitchen as a thing with like mostly stationary things feels like a good use for that as supposed to like you can charge your phone wirelessly and it's like that's a lot harder than you think IT is. But I can just like I can set this down and IT will power IT feels more doable. Yeah, excited about that.

Els, pretty.

Yeah, that's that's cool. I will say we we should switch gears. But the fact that we now have key cha and we chat, know this is dad, everybody, you have done this.

Oh, let's all come together and figure out one round that we can do together for where less. Yes, I agree. So you you're doing a big update to the the smart lock buying guide, right? Give us a preview. What's your favorite one right now?

Still a big fan of yield. The yale assured, too, because IT comes in so many different flavors that kind of fits everyone's needs. And so yeah, if if you're not familiar, has these swamp able modules? So IT depend if you decide to change your smart home set up, know you've gone from the wave to echo home or google home.

You can easily pop in a different module and be able to have compatibility, which is nice, although a lot of the locks I tested do work sort of university with different platforms. But there also matter is, is slowly coming into the smart lock space, which will help with compatibility. Although I mean, a lot of people who buy smart dot rocks is really just for that.

It's easier for me to get into my house. I don't have to have my key. So you don't necessarily need to set IT up with your smart home platform. But that's, again, what I like about yale is that gives you multiple options. You've got fingerprint access, you've got keypad access, you've got lock key, if you really insist on zoom key, and then also has the auto unlock feature.

So if which is begin, this hands free concept, which i've never found work that well for me, but that's also because I have poor sale service and poor GPS in my neighbor. Od and IT relies on that. But IT is nice.

The concept of having your door automatically unlock as you walk up to IT. yeah. And so yell has that feature, which actually got from August, which yale is the sister company of August now.

And we haven't had a new lock from August for a while, say, I think yield is kind of now the the main sort of smart lock space that we're going to see from what was as a abloy. Now fortuna house smart lock spaces got quite complicated, but yale, yale has some really good stuff. They actually just released a new retrofit locks, which kind of replaces original iconic August retrofit lock, which has been my long been my number one pick for your best retrofit lock.

And just to clarify what retrofit means, there were two types of smart locks. There's a full deadbolt replacement, which is what most of the year assure two locks are. So that replaces your entire lock. So you're going to have a different lock on the front and on the back.

A retrofit lock just replaces the back so that you still can use your regular key and yells come out with a new retrofit lock called the yell approach and you just replace the back portion to add smart to your lock. And that's really helpful for people who are renting and can't swap out their lock. And also, if you have a nice lock set and you don't want a kind of ugly looking smart lock on the front of your door, and we've come out with a good solution, and we're seen this a lot now.

And i've tested a lot of these for the new update to the buying guide, keypads, that go with retrofit locks so that you can still use a key code or a fingerprint to unlock the lock without. Because that was always an issue with retrofit locks. You couldn't actually control IT from the outside other than using a key or an APP. And when you get to you your front door, you don't, anna, have to pull out your phone to unlock your door.

no, but then just pull out your key. It's actually simpler to have keys at that point.

Yeah, so easy to without your key right now. So the yale approach comes with a key pad that has a thing print reader and a keypad built in so you can use either of those options. And the nice about these keypad as you don't have to put them like on your door or next to your door, they have quite long range so you can kind of have IT tap away and still have your front door look a lot like a Normal front.

So and i've see there's a couple other companies. A cara has a new retrofit lot that i've been trying and switch bot also has another one that all come with these blue oo keypads, which I think is really kind of a nice upgrade. And a lot of those also work with apple home key, which is new again in the retrofit space, being able to use home key, which people that use IT swear by, they say, the absolute favorite wave, getting into a smart lock, because you can put your home key on your watch up to the lock, or you can use your phone, obviously phone again, not necessarily easier than key, but watch quite easy. So yeah, lots of great options on the lock space right now are seeing new smart locks come out almost daily. It's kind bit overwhelming.

IT really does seem like that well. And I think I part of me thinks it's it's because of the thing you just mentioned and that goes these are not devices that have to like have a great and division of how do they fit into an ecosystem and like tell you a big story about routines in your smart life and you can build that stuff if if you want.

But this thing is just like it's IT makes IT easier to get inside of your house, which is just like the single most mainstream home use case that anyone has. Everyone needs to get into their house. Yes, that is a thing that happens when you have a house of any kind.

And I think that stuff is is very cool because it's like a in a sort of increasingly messy idea of how everything works together. That's one thing that just doesn't have to IT can completely do its job completely on a zone. And I think as we get through this messy matter phase, I can see why that would be very enticing to any company that wants to build this stuff.

But let's talk about matter you. You mentioned where we are with some of the the protocol stuff. And I think, uh, google has made some big changes.

Apple has made some big changes. What IT feels like. We've had some good momentum on the how you control all of this stuff in. What all works together, but let's out the protocol stuff. There is a big threads .

update this summer thread. Don't put the s on the Angels, that just confuses everyone.

And I want some writing about that. Just the one. There was a big thread with A D at the end of of date this summer.

There's spent some ongoing matter news. Catch us up. Where are we in the the protocol world?

yeah. Well, okay, just before we jump into those protocols, there is one particle I should mention before we .

move on from smart lot is wireless. Gg, how much? Where's the wireless power coming .

from this time? No, no, no. This is a hero.

So this is tied to matter. This is the new smart lock protocol. David, just put his head down.

Someday you're going to come on the show and just make all of this stuff up. And i'm not onna know, and i'm gna feel very stupid .

at the but now this is into what we're just talking about and what we're about to talk about. So good, say way, but a hero is the new access control standard from the csa, which is organization behind matter connectivity standards alliance.

And this is why we're seen so much movement in the locks space because it's actually going to help standardize the way we access smart locks, not just in our homes, but maybe even in like our businesses and apartments and everywhere. So we're waiting for the standard to actually be released is likely to involve uwb, which we've discussed as well as NFC, which is the tap, which is what home key uses. And we actually just saw a very first uwb supporting lock get released this last month, although all IT won't work with a lero. So is like we see a lot .

of doing this again. Yes.

a lot of four horses at the moment, but is the excitement in the space. And an apple is a huge part of developing the hero standard, as are the big smartphone one companies, because basically idea here is that you'll be able to use your phone or watch to unlock any door. And the matter which Operating system are using or which platform are using is the universal access.

Just like matter is the universal standard for the smart home. This is like a universal standard for the smart lock, which is kind of connecting you into the smart home. So it's separate from, but connected to.

And so this is a space we should be watching quite closely. I think we'll get a lot of movement around, especially since apple amounts that it's supporting new wb unlock king in apple home. So anyway, that was just to wrap up, sp looks and now into smart home is good.

The answer i've always said is let's invent more protocols. That's what i'm glad that we're continuing on the trip of more protocol.

I know I know, but what gives .

me IT gives .

me stuff to write but I know it's true if .

if everybody figures this out will be out of job. So like it's this is for the best uh so but yeah the the talk to me about thread with the d and no the one one a single thread.

okay. So thread is um as i've written about in the past, is one of the two main wireless protocols of for matter. And so wifi and thread thread s been around for a decade or so prior to matter.

But IT is and IT was originally developed inside nest, along with a few other companies. And IT is a low band with low power protocol developed specifically for IoT devices, which actually is a sort of the first west. We've got things like the wave and zig b.

They weren't necessary designed for the smart home and thread is designed specifically for a smart home. And so IT was sort of realised with big fan fare when matter launched couple years ago, like this is going to solve all our problems because talking about battery life, this is something we've see throughout the smart home. Smart hom devices constantly running out a battery needed to be charged.

Thread is low power. So supposedly should, especially things like smart go lock ks, should not need to be recharged or have their batteries replace frequently if they use thread. But we've been having a lot of issues with threads since IT kind of launched into the the broad a smart hom space in the last year or two.

And just last no two weeks ago, just around eo, when I was the texture in berlin, the thread group launched thread one dot four, which is basically there panzer to all the problems that we've seen so far, with thread specifically around see, which is one of the main points of matters that we're supposed to be solving here. The idea that anything you buy for your smart home, your smart lock, your smart lights should all work together, no matter which phone you use or which platform you use. And so thread uses something called thread border around us to help communicate from your thread device to the internet and to whichever platform you want to use. And this wasn't necessarily the thread group or the thread protocols problem. I'm trying to .

avoid some threads problem because every .

border ratter is made by a different manufacturers. So you have border rattles from apple. So like your apple home pod, your apple TV is a thread border out IT from amazon, your echo, your echo show, ten number of devices from amazon, the eos or thread border routers.

Same for google. But unfortunately, these wead board readers didn't talk to each other, and this was causing all sorts of problems with his, your devices. You'd think you'd connected your device to your smart home, but IT was on a different network from, say, your smart lights might be on a different network from your door lock.

So IT was IT was causing headaches and problems. And so this one not for, should they say, fix that specific issue, but we have to wait. This is this is the thing of these particles.

They come along promising all these great solutions, and then it's all down to the manufacturers and the platforms to them implement them. So we're going to have to wait for that. So I mean, I think with you being optimistic, which is definitely my preferred method of a breaching, we should see some movement by around ce. I think i'll see a lot of products that coming out with thread one up for, but still that's a long way away.

IT is. But I will tell you here is the thing that gives me optimism is I think the last time you and I talked, my worry was starting to become that this was moving so slowly that everyone is this essentially just going to give up on all things matter. And IT would be kind of A A thing that existed, but nobody really cared about a and thus kind of languish yeah and IT actually doesn't seem like that the case are there.

Maybe i'm wrong, may be I messing IT, but IT doesn't seem like there has been sort of reverse momentum where everybody has just decided to go back to doing their own things. It's just that it's moving slower than we hoped, but I still seems to be actually moving in the right direction, which gives me optimism about the fact that we will get where we want to be. It's just onna take a lot longer than anybody hoped.

Yeah, I think I think that that spot on. But the problem has been, I think around expectation and a lot of companies kind of jumped on the bandwagon with thread and matter and like this is our solution. We're going to you know make everything work with thread and matter and ship IT to our customers.

And this can be a great experience. And specifically, companies like nano leaf and eve, who are quite well known in the smart home space but not broadly very well known. And they were sort of seen this is their opportunity to become more sort of household names because their products would be so much easier to use.

And they've really been burned by these things, these protocols not working in the way that IT was predicted or a promised. And so we have seen a lot of companies kind of walk back from these protocols. At least nana specifically created his own protocol, another one IT, because it's like we can't rely on thread.

It's not that we can't rely on the protocol itself is a great protocol is what the CEO demo told me, but it's the way it's implemented by the platforms. And this all comes back down to this interpret ability issue. And the something you and i've talked about a lot.

The different manufacturer, the different platforms play nicer together. Apple playing nicely with amazon. Google play my super samsung.

You know, we all worried that that could be the issue eventually. They they are all got together to start with. But when they all gna start going their separate ways, i'm causing issues.

And that's where the thread brought to issue came from. But they've come back. They're they gonna work on IT. This should hopefully be fixed.

But yes, right now, if you went all in on thread or if you went all in on matter, it's not the sort of can share where that we were hoping for. But we're getting there and people aren't giving up. You're right. There is momentum is just not ready for the the real world yet. It's not ready for the people that want a good dollop, good video all well.

And we are definitely past the point where a lot of these companies promised that IT would work by now and IT doesn't. right. But I will I still I I still believe someday well and speaking at last day, we should talk up before that you is, uh, there's spend some big software changes on that front, right? Like you mentioned, home key with apple.

There's some stuff in I O S eighteen that I think he's been really important to the smart home things google is doing about a smart home stuff right now with the with its TV products. I have a TV stream or over you. I both really like, ah yes, that feels like it's moving in a really good direction, right? Like the stuff is getting built into the devices that needs to get built into.

So yes, so the irs eighteen has an update that specifically designed to address this problem, this problem of thread and border utters because people were buying a thread s device bringing at home and IT wasn't working because they didn't have a border writer. They didn't know they needed a .

border writer because you shouldn't have to know that. No one should have to know about badder winner site.

And so as you may recall, all iphone fifteen pro and newer have thread radio in and with IOS eighteen, apple released an update that allows you to add matter devices directly to your apple home APP without requiring any hub, either a home hub or on a thread border. Rta, so wifi devices and thread devices can connect using your phone directly. I mean, this is an out solution for the long term, because if you want a smart home, you do need a hub. And for orchestration, but IT does solve the problem of I just bought this cool, new smart light I wanna set IT up and I don't want to have to go buy thread bada matter. And that's also an answer to sort of why apple decided to put thread chips in their iphones bail or us .

you call you should take just a mini Victory lab on that one because you were way out in front of that whole story.

Well, if IT didn't make sense, it's it's it's confusing a bit though because people like doesn't that make your phone a hub and a thread border right was like, well, no, it's not. But it's like a temporary connection that you can use IT if you don't have anything else. It's like a for back and and then but if you do want a fred barrata, that's getting easier.

And there are more, more devices like you mentioned, there's the google streamer that just came out. This is google new arts up to the apple TV and that is a smart home hub as well as a streamer has read bought out her and matter capabilities and also great smart home controls, which I was my favor thing about this device. We said we both were tested out and reviewed IT, and we tried all the streamers in our house.

And most of my family just ends up using the regular samsung remote and going to the built in that OS, I know, but they all love the streamer and theyve all set up their own profiles. And it's like it's been a huge success in my house. So so IT is great to see more devices like this that kind have a good use case in your home, but for every day, like you would go by this because you want a good TV dreamer.

But it's also gonna help if you do want to use a smart home to give you a bit more infrastructure built into your home, so that when you come home with that shiny new thread like bob, IT will work and you didn't have to worry about IT. But what what i'm most excited about right now overall with the smart home IT is where we're going with general AI because and this is something that gool talked about a lot. Then what was the last big event they had gone?

You basically .

both apple and amazon, we know, have kind of struggled in this space. Google says it's about to release some really interesting updates. I'm interested to who who gets there first, but where I see the most interesting news case of genova, I in the smart home is making the smart home easier.

That natural language that would have been promised be able to just say, oh, i'm a little cold and it's too dark and your his voice assistant knows that IT should raise the famous statue and turn the lights up for you. And google is promised with some new enhancements through germany. I for google home and the google assistant that IT can be bringing these kind of features to the smart home, along with interactive notifications, which is another thing i'm interested in.

Like I mentioned the beginning of this chat, that my smart home, when my smart home cameras send me notifications non stop and it's really annoying. So what's happening with google home is they are using geri to sort of filter through your video footage and only send you relevant notifications. Like you can say, I only want to know if this person shows up at my front door or this car shows up at my front door, those kind of unit of specific notifications, rather than just all there was a breeze and plastic bag.

and then back the other way, and then back the other way.

Yeah, wake you up at one o'clock in the morning. So these kind of sort of quality of life make the smart homes so much easier to use, less annoying and more intuitive. I think what really sort of push smart home adoption because there are so many benefits. But like you said at the beginning, just trying to unlock or figure out how to replace a battery. There are too many parts of smart home and home automation that require a lot of time in attention and reading and google and watching youtube videos and reading my articles, which is getting um but I think we've we ve seen both google, amazon and echo and samsung all trying using genitive AI to make this experience a lot smoother and therefore hopefully encourage more people to kind of read the benefits of of what I think is is a great experience in your home when when IT all works.

I agree. I mean, and that seems like were presumably only weeks away from amazon launching the the general A I underpinnings of alex I wou'd been hearing about for a long time ago. We were at the event, who's that a year ago at this be the first one day to promise? yes. yeah. So is in is that the same kind of stuff that you think we're going to see? Like I think honestly, if if google assistant and alexa both get even kind of a pretty good version of what you just described, that instantly upgrades like many, many millions of people's smart home very much so yeah.

I mean, amazon proms, you they launch all of this a year ago and it's taken a long time. It's not here yet. And so this is the way I need to see when google actually going to implement what they've promised.

An apple hasn't even mentioned this, my home. You none of its apple intelligence or syrian improvements are specifically for the smart home. IT is a difficult space.

You get you know you get hallucinations in smart home and you can go really, really wrong. And this is what are speaking to all of the companies involved here. I hear a lot is like it's complicated and hard.

So I think we're going to see baby steps. We're going to see i'm hoping we will see something for map on here. I mean, it's four.

We Normally have a full event. It's kind of later than Normal last year. I think that was this week. Um so but we know if there's been a lot of reporting on struggles, the companies had to really nail this down. And every time I ve spoken with executives at amazon about the new election, they well, we're working on IT, but it's very complicated. So yeah, I think it's is a struggle. But but if and when we can see these solutions, I I really do think it's give me a game changer for this, my home, it's gonna just make IT takes IT from being something you have to program and fiddle with to something that just works. And if if they get IT right remains the biggest .

question yes, will have you back on. After all, this amazon stuff happens because in a very real way, with all of this stuff that the proof is in the putting yeah by the putting, I mean, your house. So we will come back and we will do this. Jane, thank you.

Is always thank you.

right? We're going to take a break and then we're going to come back and we're going to do a mike test. I'll be back back.

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right? We're back. So if you've been the thing with the verge cast for a long time, you know that a thing we like to do occasionally is test the microphones on a bunch of different kinds of headphones.

The last one of these, I think we did was the face gadgets, the meta ribs and the vision pro and I can stuff. And that, I thought, was actually really interesting. The rabbit made a smart glasses, might be the best like body warn mike. We've tested yet, which is pretty cool.

But this time I wanted go through all of the new headphones that have come out from kind of the major headphone companies in the last few month because for people who just want like a Normal set of wireless earbuds, you're suddenly spoiled for choice, right? There's the new pixel buds pro two from google. There's the airports for from apple, samsung, some new galaxy buds pro.

Uh, nothing has the new year open. Bose has themselves. There's just a lot of new options on the market, Chris. He has the mall as he has want to do. And so we sent him to a coffee shop, and we're going to talk a little bit about the audio quality and his feelings about them overall. But mostly I want to test the microphones because my ruling theory is that microphones really matter.

I mentioned this a bit in the intro, but right now, so much of using your headphones is using them to talk to people, or to make videos, or talk to theory, or to do this increasingly multi model A I stuff that these companies are talking about. Microphones matter, and we don't talk about them enough. And I think do something that lets these companies off the hook from building Better microphones like it's not impossible to build a very good microphone is just hard.

And a lot of these companies care a lot about noise cancelling. They care lot about sound quality. I think they should care more about mikes.

We're going to talk about mikes and were going to see who is doing the best job right now. Chris welch is sitting in a coffee shop, I assume, with lots and lots of headphones around, confusing everyone else in the coffee shop. So let's let's do some testing. Chris .

welch.

hello again. Where are you right now? I feel like i'm growing to, like, learn the different spots that you are when we test your buds.

Where are we go to coffee shop in my neighbor, come to very thing and work from, and a sense to be pretty loud as most broken cob today know you there by .

now you're like a guy who shows up with the pile of gadgets and takes the bunch pictures like, understand, we walked the door. okay. Uh, so we're here because we're kind of at the end of this year's cycle of new earbuds.

You just publish the the pix about pro two review. You have a bunch of them. So we figured this is a good moment to test them.

Before we dive in, just give us the list. What are we what are we going to try here? What do we have?

I ve got the airports of four, if I have right now in my ears, that you're going to start, we've got a samsung god. So buds that we pro, the people of books for tours. The new bows fite come from air books that just came out as well. And the nothing opens, very funky opens, but that just announced as well.

So I expected I I have developed IT like unnecessary attachment to an obsession with these open earbuds. So i'm very excited of those good. And i'm glad you started with the airports.

So this is actually good. This is a good first test because I feel like airports are a useful control in a lot of this because they are just like the one that everybody has. They sound fine. I described them to somebody the other day is like the nice thing about their podd s is that you can get them to sound like A C plus in almost any situation. Downside of the airport is you cannot get them to sound Better than the see plus in any situation like that perfect scenario they are going to have just like this.

But that's that's fine I guess yeah, it's like there is there like Normal modes, but on phone all to the voice isolation beater machine and make you sound even here where they are a bit Better.

The voice, the voice service station, you can only do it's like phone cause of face time, right? yes.

Yeah, they do the job well.

We've got enough this. Let's switch the next one. Let's do.

let's do google next goole。

I think that that's a good if I remember correctly, google has outperformed my expectations several times on these tests. I.

There's smaller and writer. And the max garden mixed to be that so far.

i'm going to go decidedly lower than mixed on this one.

Do you remember when we .

did a test on the ferry in new york? And I was just blinding ly obvious how hard some of them were working even even though they were kind of working, kind of hear you you could hear how hard IT was for them to get to that point. That's what i'm getting here too.

It's like the one of the interesting that just happened was between recordings here, uh, we just to let everybody and know how this works, uh, we use a cyd overside, and you have to stop and start recording every time you want to change devices, we have to stop each time. So I get to hear like the natural audio coming out of your mac and there was music playing that I really hear on the airpower s. There was more noise and than I expected that I wasn't really hearing on the airports.

I'm hearing all of that now interested like no translation. What's up almost I mean.

they're some and it's like it's coming and going. It's kind of like they're raising and lowering the volume as time goes on. And your voice sounds fine.

It's like it's picking up more of everything. So i'm actually like your voice is a little richer than I was hearing to the ipod or to the airports. But so is the background.

This not great? But I guess since the trade off from getting a smaller and later and other even further away from my mon bulking, this so harder to can a separate boys from background noise. But these also have like clear calling on the polls, which again can do on video chatting, watching. So, uh, this should be a Better action phone, but it's in a pop shop. This what you think you have?

You know, this means many. Do you ever do you ever do the thing where rain noise canceling had funds like over the ear noise canceling had funds and you just kind of take him on and off your ears and and you can t to hear IT pulse the noise in an outside IT feels a little like that as you're talking. It's it's sort of constantly picking up and letting go of the backgrounds way is IT works.

But it's also like a little unnerving as i'm listening to IT. I think if I was just holding up my phone in my head, I wouldn't really bother me. But i'm like pretty good headphones in a pretty good situation here.

And IT is like i'm hearing was not hearing the airports yeah that's really interesting. Ah so this is we're any of google like a like a gently passing grade. I would say this is not like a disaster. I can hear you ah, but I I can safely already say google is not going to win this evaluation. They do look at like super small in your ears that it's really nice and there are they seem very comfortable .

from from what I saw your review and what is but yeah can barely yeah .

when you're head on, I I can basically not seen them in all that's ool right let's switch to the next song. Let's do I don't know. U pic, surprise me.

What are you done?

OK, yes, I love you. watch. Some some buds, how do you do .

on these are the butz pro. They have stems now, just like the airports pro do. So hope that next little IT. Well, I didn't hear that at all.

This is okay. This is the opposite of what we just heard from google. This is actually super fun because basically the airports are the middle. Google is all the way. The end of the spectrum of, like, let's make this sound kind of as natural as possible, even if that means getting noise in and you are just compressed to within an end of your life. But there is no background nose like IT IT is sounds like you are in a silent room.

Yeah SHE per something. Like something dies and step over there so you can hear that I impress IT do I found like intelligent, able.

intelligible? Yes, you almost don't. Sounds like yourself like IT sort of sounds like if you, if you like, held up a pillow to your mouth and then had a phone call like that kind of what you sound like right now. I can do everything you're saying, but I mean, IT is IT is your processed to death but again, I I cannot overstate the extent to which I am not hearing anything but your voice right .

now that's kind of while actually, yes, so far my balls and people, I D like to eat back that that I sound sets later self.

yeah and this is this is this is a fun test case because um Normally with these happens, at least my experience has been that they process your voice less when they're having a process less background noise. So you're really when you're in like a perfectly quiet space, they sound Better and but they're sounds worse and worse. So we try to pick this is a pretty good like Normal issues case to like test them but not overly so. Uh but yeah, this is this is solid. I take this over google ten times at a tent like it's just more pleasant to listen to you even though you don't sound amazing just because there's not that .

kind of rother coastal volume of that's nice. But ah they are to the great test, sound really nice. They have lights, understand those. You can have them light up in your different people.

You know, these are the ones that samsung just went full apods s right? The airports. But like the same sunway.

I don't even .

mean that is an import like this. Is this just what team does? Yeah yeah. In terms of lake pleasant to listen to and where all day, which has been your favourite of the bunch, if you're going to just like do your life wearing headphones, do you have a favorite?

I probably say the time between now of these and the pixel buds, honestly, those are new year i'm so used to do, but these are used to town and they feel like your pots pro, now there's stable, they fit well, it's down really nice. They do all the goal samsung ecosystem tricks, but not the origin. But at this point, right? I don't all the same yeah but OK yeah.

I am impressed.

Yeah, you sound very cleared.

but you don't sound very good. And if I have to make that trade, i'll make that trade. You know.

I mean, like I love have IT both ways, but I pick this over the alternative. Let's let's switch. Let's do you.

Let's supose next. Let's do IT right.

Let's switch. Right both time. How would do you?

Was I just very loud in .

your ears? Then you look, start, as I said to me.

and okay.

OK I I don't I don't .

want to be hyperbolic here. This is awful, so bad. This is the first time I can't understand some of the words they saying and and again, I wonder if experience i've had, I have a pair of buses like over are quiet comforts and the the impression that I get every time to use them is kind of what I saying before, that the it's never good, but it's fine when there's not a lot of noise.

But both seems to so aggressively prioritized noise cancellation over audio quality that when you get into bad sound, IT will just destroy everything else in the name of noise cancellation. So getting you're sitting there and it's like not very loud to you and IT all sounds fine. It's just ruining IT yeah uh, it's doing a decent job of suppressing the background noise. It's actually like it's Better now than IT was when we started, which is interesting. It's like IT took the processing a minute to like figure IT out, but IT seems to have cut a bunch the background .

but you some like trash.

Yeah, this is this is not the one to take a zoom call on a coffee shop with. That is like basically the two reasons we do this test are like, are you the worst if you're on a video call with these? And you know, grand theory about how we talk to A I and all that stuff, like I really do believe microphones s matter. This one will fail both of those tests. And I feel very content .

about o that everything else. So yes.

these are good listening. Had funds like pose makes very good headphones to listen to. Please don't call me from .

me and ah .

let's let's go off. This one is quickly as we can. Yeah, let's let's go the next three.

Next I open ones so let me go right?

right? Nothing did nothing. You're open. That's what their called, right?

How should I pad on this period? So it's an honor.

I come like how those look in years. It's a little there are a little more like deliberately space ag than anything else. You've tried you've got the sort of ear hook ah and slate ah. They they just look like you're wearing some kind of futuristic star truckee headset, which not the worst thing in .

the world and some activities i'm not to open your but sky, but I can see the feel I got. I can hear everything this was right now. I just kind of observe.

So like you sound pretty quiet and there is like all this. But IT was the police. Actually.

I would put this kind of writing the area podds range. I'm getting a little bit of the background noise like I can tell you in a coffee shop unlike the samsung where IT was like truly just deadly quiet. Um I can it's cleared here somewhere but i'm only catching kind of bits and pieces of the background noise like I can tell. There's there's a woman talking somewhere near real. Yes, I am only touching like snippets like sylva s of IT instead of like the whole conversation uh and I can hear you pretty clearly actually this i'm i'm .

sort of impressed by this and not sure that there's them that runs down here no but pretty funny. They're fun. They are interesting. Um but make phone calls on your bike where you might be or in these um people will be able to understanding i'm getting so many looks in what this got up. 对， 另外 will only keep you a couple .

more minutes， I promise. But I think the part the reason I am interested in this is is like you you, I hear from people all the time who are like yam trying to do more phone calls while i'm walking right like like I work from home now. I sit my basement all day and i'm trying to do more of that to just get out and I go we're going to talk for a half hour.

I'm not just one around the neighbourhood a half hour 啊。 And that's one reason that opener is useful, like I think for this particular case in a coffee shop opener had fun actually the wrong answer. So like for this purpose you probably wouldn't use these even though they sound OK um but for like general sort of data day lifely it's the same reason like the raby meta smart glasses right like I can just sort of have a conversation into my sunglasses in a way that sort of works uh and I feel like this is appealing to me for the same reason and they're not pretty good. IT is not the best one, but IT is it's kind of right in that sweet spot middle with the the airports .

that I just press heard. All that we .

can we we can pick a favor .

here is.

Back on the .

airport ads for r and still sounds this .

is such a boring answer. But I think of this round, this is actually probably my favorite. I think there's a little more background noise here than there was on the nothings, but it's also a little less unrealizing like a little bit of consistent record on noise. It's actually less annoying .

than back .

yeah like this. You just kind of have that low tone behind you all the time. And so it's actually easier for me to pick out your voice where is like the pixel buds which keep coming in out where like giving me a headache, trying to figure out what was going on.

But i'm cares. Eric, go mess or producer. Hi eric is here.

hello. You have been listening to and making all of this work. What do you make of all? You're the auto expert here. Definitely impressed by the same sung, but the quality is, yes, it's been squished and compressed the death, but at least you not picking up anything a going on in the background at all. And it's it's .

it's clear .

enough and it's coherent enough to be able to have a good conversation and really surprised by the big of but there are just not impressive. Yeah, yeah really disappointed in that. You know I I think google did a good job in turns apart where this this round.

But just a little disappointed by the quality of the mike on that on his pix boat. I do wonder, I mean, well, you mentioned that their smaller and thus just further away from your mouth. And I wonder at some point if that just is like an surmountable physics problem, like the things with teams tend to be Better because they have stamps like IT, just as seems to be effect.

I mean, so I think I don't want to see everybody these stems that would be boring ah so I hope they came time away. But I can know like these machine learn ray, I would not 这个 find somebody to fix this problem。 Maybe the fixed box will Better on my phone first of two line, like so far, I got some complaints there so that might that might make a difference. Versions giving this overall audio mode. And but it's purely that that samsung and apple or canada that shows here and the the rest of pan, okay at best yeah the .

the winter for most improved is sams for sure, that I think MSN came in and then IT was the one that was like borderline unintelligible and and I think, sam, something here is either in first or second place, depending on just kind of what you like. Like the thing for me of that sort of area, quiet, super compressed, just doesn't sound as good as what i'm hearing now from the airport. Dds, which just feels a little more natural.

It's like if I were sitting across from you at a coffee shop, that's what IT would sound like. But I can also understand that if what's clear is also, if there is one that you are going to trust in awful situations to keep you intelligible, it's probably the galaxy buds, right? Is that is that be articulate here? Yeah I I would have to agree with there are like the worst case scenario buds yeah don't don't use some good to .

know for the future whenever i'm stranded somewhere and I very around like several years is very bus at all times so it's nice to .

know those in the ones don't call nine one one with those words yeah to be like is fine. You can hear anything. All right, good. Well, we've we've done IT. I just I would love for somebody to just like blow my mind here that everyone charged for next time is just like do slightly Better. We're still at the point where the rabbit metal ones are the like best sounding ones we've tested mean in the history of this segment .

on the verge cast. I never tried. I, yes, I have .

two prayers now, and I don't want one of them, so you can have one of my pairs next. I, next time of in new york, i'll bring you my pair and you you can tell that they look stupid on my face anyway, so will make that happen.

Alright.

we take rate. Chris. Thank you. As always, please apologize that everyone .

in the coffee shop for us. thanks. thank.

right? We're going to take one more break, and they're going to do a question for the first cast off line. We will be back.

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right? We're back. Let's go to the hot line. As always, the number is eight, six, six, verge one one.

The email is verge cast to the verge dot com. You can hit me up personally on threads on signal. We try to answer at least one hot line question on the show every week.

And actually, I think we're do for like a full hot line episode. We've got a lot of fun stuff. We're in deep gadget season right now. We ve ve got a lot of gadget questions will probably get to all of those at some point in the very near future. But for now, we have a question that feels so so very verge casti.

what IT a bridge cast is jeff from north china.

Um I was listening to your latest episode on meta new glasses and i'm wondering, um I remember I believe I was got galloway, any comment that any product that you're wearing on your body that makes you less attractive will never succeed? And wondering if you think with the vision pro and then now the metal smart classes, this will apply that if you look cool in them, knowing is going about them all the show. Thanks very much. bye.

There is only one person on earth who can answer this question. The scot galloway of the verge cast, I call him sometimes me like.

insult me to my face. Hey, body, this is my own show.

I didn't even prepare you for this. You didn't. So listen to this I had of time. This was just.

this is everything I would join to walk in your own house. Me slept in the face. amazing.

Uh so I love this question for two reasons. One because I think it's a good question and two because IT IT threatens the very core of neil Peter theory of viable bullshit, which is just this. This just says actually IT doesn't even matter if IT doesn't make you look cool, it's out. So I I wanted know your thoughts on this particular take with these devices.

Well, you will recall that the matrix of warrior bullshit has IT minus one hundred face penalty, which is basically what we're talking about here because you can put all kinds of stuff on your body that makes you look uncool. People were Fanny packs all day long. Rock around doon't, even worn among their FAnnies from monday, told.

get the slings now.

yeah, it's watches. Incredibly subject fashioned way.

This true clothing itself, shoes, that the way people talk about shoes in this world and all all kinds of ideas about things you put in about IT, it's really just, do you have IT on your face that sets people flying, right? That's the thing we're taught you about here is that on your face is in your way and the the matrix aware of bullshit is fidler ss versus utility? And then there's just like this, a big penalty for face somewhere in there that brings you away below the line.

And then you have to offer vastly more utility to get back above the line. So the people where every day regular glasses on your face, they take the penalty, but they're pretty useful to must be. So they they come back up. And now we you know over decades we've turned glasses into fashion .

excesses will make this choice. That's the thing that I keep thinking about, thinking about this because there's basically two ways to look at this one is, uh, these things will never be cool.

And the only way they're ever going to work is if we make them so far enough ally useful, that IT doesn't matter, right? And I feel like, I don't know, like wired headphones is probably a good example of that, right? Like I don't know that a pair of your pod is like cool, but they're like simple, they're useful and we all just kind of got over IT, right, that that cross the threshold with utility, not with cool.

The other option is that in some way someone figures out how to make these things actually objectively cool. And then and then IT flips, right, like in glasses. Some people like how they look in glasses Better than how they look without glasses.

Like that's the real thing. We have made them a fashion object, and that seems like a much harder road for any kind of technology. But is maybe the the most effective way to get there is just make them objectively cool, figure out how to make IT like iconically awesome to have scheme aggers on your face, and then know the rest even matters.

But but this is, I think, what apple tried with the vision, try to make IT cool and found its face because I just.

we can't be.

just isn't go. There are some skeggers that like cool. I i've certainly seen like sweet pictures of eighty people. Ski school cool as well. I see the movie ski school highly recommended. Anyway, my my point is one, you should watch ski school to even the people who think they look Better in classes that don't don't they have not created enough of a market for like clear glasses like there's a bit interesting for clear right like on prescription non prescription cleared glasses. He just wear the faster necessary like a little bit but it's as a signify as part of another after right it's supposed be part of another thie that you're stunning out not just I wear this every day, all day like my shoes.

right? As pure fashion statement.

So you just think for a tech product, you need to vastly increase the utility of the thing like airports. They're so useful, and I care about them so much and they provide me so much value every single day is a product that I will overcome.

The fact that during my years, all the time that people can see them because are White and like regular over the year, headphones or fashion statements in different ways where they look different, there's different ways. And you can style in this ways, you can wear them. That member beats came out.

The beats were not the best sounding. Jimmy ivan and doctor jay had one idea for what had functions, some like, and I was super base heavy. And if they were a fashion, Steven, at first, as I came in all the colors like they were the first heads, like really pushed that idea.

And they were phenomenon in their time just for that. I think with smart glasses, yep, you got to meet the phone factor. Small er, yep, you've got to be um yeah they will look more like regular glasses.

You've got to saw the Better you have to bring the fiddle this way down in the value way up, they're got to be able to do more things. And then somewhere in there you might overcome the penalty of ping on your face. But I still think the the core tenet holds, which is if it's really, really useful, people get over the foodservice ess.

And part of fittingly is like, is this should on my face right? And what are not that you want to interpret that in the galloway fashion of? Does this make me more attractive? That is up to you to decide if that is the type of utility you desire from a product fair. And I guess to be fair, post alone is out here are being like, you know what, face attunes at home.

Just listen, some things are attractive to some people. Every accounting for taste, uh, no one is attracted. Division grow, I think, is basically the only true statement I can make at this particular time.

Uh, I okay. So the hundred point deductable is on a scale that is an apple I like. The one point deduction is is like it's it's apple chart crime is out of nothing.

But what I wonder is, is have we have we not hit ted enough? Like should IT be a two hundred point deduction? Like I am starting to think that this thing might be harder to surmount.

Even then I had thought even like I look at the ryan glasses, which are smaller and much closer to being Normal glasses, and then somebody put some of their face and they still a kind of stupid, like they're cool because they are cool technology, whatever, but like, in no way are they like cool looking glasses. And that is like the bleeding edge of the bleeding edge of where we are in terms of being able to make these things awesome. Like, should we be, should we be doing these things harder for their face wearing issues for the foreseeable future?

Well, I would say one of the most fiddly things about the iron is that you need to work at facebook and apparently have ten thousand dollars.

There's have one pretty it's very fast when .

they are in your face. Like doesn't matter like it's a product as you can bought. You need to grow Crystal lenses and the basement of your underground hai layer apparently to have them very fitly what you're just in the whole and then you're a little bit further in the whole.

A Better example is the riband glasses that that is doing where their utility is not that high, right? Like they can take some photos, they can do some A I stuff. People actually like the photos. People like listening to music, but they are not very .

fitly thee they're .

and so if they can overcome the face penalty because their fidler ss is so low, right? And then you get whatever utility you get out of IT, and they kind of just curve right back up to glasses, maybe a little bit under regular glasses because they have a little more feline's to them. But I think they're just on the same curve as regular classes, which also take the hundred point face violence deduction.

I'm going to be so interested to see how the clear ones end up doing in the role that like limited edition one that they came out with because my like threads algorithm is filled with people who are obsessed, that my threats .

algorithm is also .

filled with like nerds. And but it's very good. So I think the question of like I have appeared here that are essentially in distinguish from Normal wafers, like you would never look at me twice wearing them.

They just look like wave. That is a huge Victory. I think the clear ones look a little more like gadgets. And and so I think how those sort of property late out into the world is going be really interesting because there is this like all the way the other end of that election is google glass, which is like the geest gadget of all time.

You offered almost no utility. Just everyone forgets this about google as you had a little display in your face that was not very useful at all no.

I told you you had a text message yeah my buzz when that happens.

yea was be like turn left like when you you're doing google s and it's just none of this is useful at all. So the the real thing that I think that the ray band accomplished is they've gotten closer to the curve as a regular glasses. There was really interesting is the clear ones you thought him about have the next generation of transitions.

Lens s and them G, S, they're called, which you're supposed to go from sunglasses to clear much faster than before. And the ideas that that will make you want aware them all the time, I don't know. You know, like are people going to buy these way things that look like wafers and just like wear more on their office because they're getting so much value out of wearing the meta ray bands? And I think the answers is, no, I think you're still on the same curve as just regular sunglasses. So we'll see. I think that's the most successful of these products because they've gotten to the same sort of value equation as a regular set of sunglasses.

Yeah, I think that's right. And that's that's a good example of I don't know that black your sunglasses generally make you look like cooler and more attractive, but they are like useful and they look good. I think historically .

in the history of cultural people have thought sunglasses ses make them .

cool and attractive. Now they are just like make you mysterious because no, reconsider or looking at and that .

yeah sexy and dangerous. How do you feel Better on glass? Just I think this is how most people feel about that's no.

that's so maybe maybe we're on to something here that there's maybe the new the the the whatever seventh dimension of the theory of wearable budget.

I think to be just too it's true in the face deduction.

but there's sexy question.

No, I disagree to all too subjective. It's fillin ss forces utility.

In in face. So do we put sexiness under utility? Is one of the utility like a possible utility? Just IT makes .

me look out as a hell perceived util all is my face such a when this face of faces? Utility deduction.

Okay, I think that's right. It's a fitly deduction faces .

to be so IT just depends on which access is which which everyone brings you down below that curve like hard and then you battle like you've got to pay off utility. So IT IT is IT is a utility .

reduction, okay?

You put IT on your face. You subtly need to deliver vastly more utility .

to get back above the curve, right? And one of those utilities can be sexy looking hot. yeah. right? Very good. We've solved IT. And as always, if you listeners can figure out how to graph this for us, please, dear god will let you sponsor the living run for free. And you can mention before.

so there's regular glasses. This is the the first thing to put on your chart is regular glasses, which are quite fit, especially if you need them to see. The fact that if you lose them, you can no longer see, is really quite filled.

Yes, agree.

and clean, you can lose them, you don't want to scratch, wear them all the time, very friendly. The utility of the truck, your way above the curve of success on on this, whatever query art were doing. Uh, air pods also in the chart, in the graph, right? People like them, but they make you look, look of air pods in years everych first change versus the currently first.

So fitly you not a lot of utility.

So fitly below the curve and they they they evened out to where they are now. So like that's the chart, right? You just got if you're going to put something on your body is going to be so useful, it's worth the time and attention. And then you've got face face deduction.

Face deduction.

the number of alright.

we did IT me like thank you is always i'm .

still mad about this squaw think I will be very clear.

All right, that is that for the forecast. Thank you to everybody who was on the show the day. And thank you, as always, for listening.

There's lots more on everything we talk about, all of genovese of matter and thread and the video door bell check you wrote about a smart door just yesterday. Great stuff. All that is on the website.

All of Christ's reviews of these various headphones are on the website. I think wearable theory is mostly a verda ast thing. So, you know, keep IT locked here for all of the updates on realized insane, whereby theory that basically doesn't make any sense.

And if you have thoughts, questions or feelings or anything else you want to talk about other headphones, you want to try other ways to put terrible audio on the verge cast, you can always email us at verge cast at the verge dot com for cover hot line eight, six six verge one one we love hearing from you. Please keep all your questions come on. This shows produced by liam James Wilson or and eric goe's the verge cast is a verge production in part of the box media podcast network.

Nearly alex now will be back on friday to talk about all the weird stuff going on an open eye, because that keeps happening. Some strange lawsuit stuff with epic and google and samsung and a whole bunch of other stuff. See them, brock and.

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