Shownotes Transcript
Hi pussies, welcome back to Therapus. It is the Monday after Coachella and I don't feel my very best.
And honestly, I barely attended the festival. If we're just being quite honest with you, I went for a little bit on Saturday. I went for a little bit on Friday and then I really I really gave it my all on Saturday to the point where I couldn't make it Sunday. So I had to go home. I took like a nap that was like so biblical today. Also, I'm in the middle of I'm about to finish.
The Leftovers, I'm at the end of season three. And when I find a show that I'm like so clinical for, first of all, I'm so scared for it to end. I just don't know who I'm going to be without it. I don't really have a show lined up to like binge after it.
So I'm a little anxious. I'm going to go back to Veep, which I'm very excited about because I love it. But like there is something to be said for like one of those like thriller, like supernatural, extraterrestrial, like bigger than us shows. And that's what The Leftover feels like with me. And I'm on season three, episode seven and season three, episode six. I'm going to say that I think that so far was the best episode of the show I've seen. That ending was...
If I could cry, I would have sobbed. It was super, super, super moving. Anywho, that all goes to say, that's what I did today. I watched The Leftovers and I took a nap. Okay, so here's where I'm between a rock and a hard place. I want to tell you guys about my love life and I want to be like, I have a date coming up or whatever. But then every time I do that, the person I go on the date with inevitably sends me this. And they're like,
What do you, what, what? Like, what are you talking, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's super, it gets, becomes super fucking awkward. And I can't decide if that's just something they're going to have to deal with. And like the right person will deal with that and think it's sweet. Or I wait until after. So I have a date this week. It's essentially what I'm trying to say. I have a date on, like, I really want to tell you guys. But I don't want them to find out.
So on tonight's episode, we have Sophie Thatcher, who is the star of Yellow Jackets, which has been one of my favorite shows since it came out when I was a senior in college. For those that don't know, I'm sure many of you know, but for those that don't know, it is about a...
It's about a soccer team that is flying to a tournament and that plane crashes in the middle of the wilderness and they get stranded and they eat each other. But it's also about much more than that. It's very camp. It's very, it's amazing. It's like seriously one of my favorite shows. It's,
It's so, oh my God, I'm just obsessed with it. And this season was honestly so amazing. Sophie Thatcher played such a big part in why I love this season so much. So being able to like sit down and talk to her was so incredible. I also think she's just like so amazing in general. She released her debut EP last year called Pivot and Scrape. She is in the new movie Companion. Like she is doing so much. She's so talented and I'm so happy I got to get to know her more. And I'm so excited for you guys to get to know her more if you don't already.
So yeah, I go back on the road May 16th. I begin in San Francisco. To find out if I'm coming to a city near you, go to passthatpuss.com and click live with Jake Shane. To submit a tell me what's wrong, go to passthatpuss.com, click tell me what's wrong, and leave a name and number if you're feeling fancy. Enjoy tonight's episode. Love you, pussies. Hi, pussies. Welcome back to Therapist.
Today we have on one of my favorite actresses and also musician. She just released her debut EP, Pivot and Scrape. She is the star in this season of Yellow Jackets and all seasons of Yellow Jackets. I just obviously can't speak. And she is in the new film Companion with Jack Quaid and Lucas Gage, Sophie Thatcher. Hey. Hey.
Oh my god, sorry. I was actually panicking that I was going to get one of those wrong and I was going to have to redo that and it was going to be super awkward. You slayed. Thank you.
How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I can't believe we have mutuals in common from Lake Forest. Lake Forest. Lake Forest is so specific. Well, Louise was like- Well, it's more shore, so I get it. Yeah. Well, Louise was like, you know, she grew up in Lake Forest. And I was like, like Lake Forest, Illinois. And she was like, yeah. I was like, wait-
That's Brett's hometown. It's crazy. It's like the craziest mutual to have. And they get popcorn. I know. That's like a Chicago staple. I know. Do you like the caramel mix? Oh, yeah. It's the caramel and the cheddar. Yeah, the cheddar. The Boy Scouts. Why don't they do that anymore? I feel like there are no Boy Scouts anymore. There are no Boy Scouts, right? What happened to the... Oh, because of... Great way to start this. I was like, what happened? Wait, do they still do Boy Scouts? I think so.
There are still Girl Scouts. I bought fucking cookies from some girl the other day at the Brentwood Country Mart. Yes, there were some at Bristol Farms. Yes. And I really enjoyed that. Oh, they sell the Girl Scout cookies at Bristol Farms now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that, what's your go-to grocery store? I guess Bristol now. It was Erewhon because I was living in Silver Lake right next to the Erewhon. Oh, that's Erewhon. Next to Bar 4100. Bar 4100.
It is, but it's, I think, the most sceny. It is. It's the most, like, oh, you're like, every time you go there, you can't go with your pimple patches. Yes. You gotta put on, you gotta, like, you don't have to, but me being a little self-conscious, I have to, you know, dress up a little.
I used to go there in college all the time and I would see everybody I went to school with like every day. I need to talk to you about Yellow Jackets. Yeah. No more grocery stores. Let's get straight to the point. I can't play coy anymore. Like I have to talk to you about it. I...
I always, I saved it all for like this past week so I could binge it all in one go. Oh, that's intense. Well, it's a lot to binge. It was a lot. It was a lot. Because there's a lot going on. It's just like a little more villainous this season. Well, it's interesting because I feel like your character was kind of painted as like the villain in season one. Or at least like you were painted as the one that was like
going away from the group and not down for like everything. Totally. Yeah. Or just the outsider. Yeah, the outsider. And she's still the outsider, but it's different. But it's different because you're like the outsider in the sense that you want to get the fuck out of there as opposed to like, you know, like. Well, I feel like she still has some humanity. Right. I feel like the rest of the group doesn't specifically. Shauna. Yeah.
Wait, so I haven't? Everyone has a very, like, visceral reaction to Shawna this season because Sophie Nolese is amazing. No, she's incredible. So good. Because I don't remember the last time I've been, like, if I see an actress or an actor in person, like, I don't know how I'm going to separate their character. Like, she was that good. It's hard now. Exactly. Like, she was that good. But this season was a big turning point.
Oh my God. Was that like, was, were you like, do you guys have so much for like, do you like, do you all like, cause it's such an intense plot and intense storyline. Like, do you all like switch off the second the camera stopped rolling or is it like hard when the materials? I think we do. Yeah. I think we do. I like this. Um, Patrick, where's Cassandra? Where? Oh my God. Sorry. I just panicked. You just reminded me that you have another, Oh,
Oh, yeah. This is coming out after the finale. So you can say anything. So you can say anything. Okay. Spoiler alert. Great.
Yeah, I feel like we're all pretty good at keeping it light. I think you have to. Or else all of us... I have a thing where I really don't. A lot of the scenes this season are the group scenes. Right. And technically it's a pain in the ass. Because it's so many takes. Oh, because you have to do this angle and this angle. It takes probably like eight hours to do a two-page group scene. No. Which is insane. And you're just so...
It really is a test for any actor just saying the same line over and over again. It feels like theater to some extent, which I haven't done in a while. So that's the most exhausting when we have a group scene that's like really tense. Yeah, yeah. You know, you have to stay in that all day. That's like the only other option is like...
I don't know. I feel like we don't really, cause we go out, we're in the, we shot a lot of it in the forest this season, which is similar to season one where season two was all on like a stage. Yeah.
So it was nice to have that like immersion quality again. But that also means that we don't have our own rooms. So we don't have like our own individual time. So we're doing these group scenes, but then we go to this tent where it's all of us just sitting in these chairs. I brought not my Nintendo Switch, but my Nintendo. Do you remember the game Dogs? Of course. Nintendo Dogs. Yeah, we're the one where Beyonce's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I played that because that was my therapy and I was like, turn it off. Do you play it on a DS? I played it on the DS. I got it off eBay. But that was kind of my way of shutting off. I know some people brought their switches. Some people would just go mute. We would share memes, whatever.
We try to bring lightness. Okay. So I have a few questions. Were you a Pokemon kid? No, actually. Oh my God. I feel like it would make sense for me to be a Pokemon kid. No, because you brought up Nintendo and I was like an intense Pokemon kid on Nintendo. But I just got Nintendo Switch. Nice. What games do you have? I have Mario Kart and Pokemon. Of course. Okay. Yes. And I want to get, what's the one?
The one, the pink, the pink Kirby. Kirby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's also the Hello Kitty one that just came out. Yes, I'm desperate for that one. That was my childhood. Were you a Hello Kitty girl? Of course I was. Oh, that's amazing. I love Hello Kitty. I have a Hello Kitty blanket. Nice. Yeah. There you go. Okay, so you talked about like the group scenes being like you would have to do, it would take eight hours for like a two-page script.
Yeah, I mean, that could be an exaggeration or it could be more. No, no, right, right. Because it's very dependent on the director and the day and the technicalities of it all. This season, what for you do you felt like was like the most, like if out of all the scenes, you're like, oh, that one specifically was so long and hard to film. Um...
Jennifer Morrison did episode four, which was all the court stuff. Oh my God. Yeah. And because we had to get coverage, it's the coverage because it's so technical and getting coverage on everybody. Um,
Was really obnoxious, but because it was her directing, she was so strategic and it wasn't like, oh, let's feel it out. Like, oh, maybe we'll do coverage on this person that she had it all planned out. So it was great. But... Coverage is... Coverage, just like getting a close-up on this person. Got it, got it. And then a wide, a close-up, just for like, for the editors to have freedom in the room. But...
That was hard. And I remember, I mean, I had just a couple lines when I was seated when they were asking me questions in the courtroom scene. And I remember feeling nervous. I was like, this feels like an audition. Right, right. It's because all these people were looking at me that I was like, oh my God, this is awful. But I don't know. My mind was going through many, many scenes because the show is not...
Not easy. It's just like, I haven't had such a visceral, like you were saying, a visceral reaction to a show. Like, I'm yelling at my screen. That's great. Yelling. That's what we want. Like, why? Like, go home. I know, no, that's it. Go home! Well, because that already aired episode eight. By the time this comes out, all episodes will be out. Amazing. All episodes. So right now, spoiler for those who haven't seen it.
Hannah disguised herself as you. Mm-hmm. And you went to the top of the hill to make a phone call. Mm-hmm. Like, that feeling when the line was going up and, like, you finally made that call, like, I...
Oh, my God. I know. We had to do that a lot. And it was a fun experience because we took a helicopter. It was just like eight of us on this helicopter going up to this mountain. There was no snow. Right. So they faked all of it. And that was kind of the point of going there was to be snow. But there wasn't any snow. But it looked, just because it was so vast. Right. And it was so endless and adding to that feeling of...
you know, being so lost in such a huge place. It made her feel so small. And then hearing the voice just added, you know, and you almost forget on the show that they get rescued, which I think is interesting that in that moment, you're like, wait, they,
They get rescued. They get, like, because it's, there's a disconnect to some extent. Well, that's what makes it sting so hard every time, like, something bad happens. Like, when those three people came and Lottie killed the guy. Like, you know what I mean? I'm like, wait, no, no,
They're going to go home. And like, you know what I mean? Like when Mari was like the final hunt, I'm like, oh my God, no, no, no. They're going to go home. Mari. Yeah. I'm like, they're going home. Like we don't need to do this. That's the worst part of it all. I'm like, look, they never need to do it. Like cannibalism is never the answer. But like, if only they knew that like they were going home so soon, you know what I mean? That's what makes. They don't know. And it just shows how.
Truly delusional they are. Like truly delusional. So out of their minds. Can't even fathom going back home. But it's also there's something sad. I was thinking about this and I've seen comments about this. The people that want to go home...
are the people that had the worst lives at home. I was literally thinking that. It makes me really emotional to think about that. Yeah, well, Nat has arguably one of the toughest situations. She doesn't have parents. She doesn't have anything. And she's leading the charge to leave. And, like, it's crazy because...
Shauna is like, no, let's stay. It's interesting. I'm curious about her background or her home life. We don't get much of that. In the pilot, it didn't fully go into it. But you get a sense that it's normal, middle class, which makes it harder. It's such a distinction between her and Shauna that it just makes it more devastating. But then also you think about Lottie.
And it's like, she would probably be committed to. Right. Because I forgot that she was committed before. Yeah. I forgot. And it would probably be immediately after. It would probably. I mean, I don't know. I haven't gotten the script. So I'm with the fans. Right. Where I'm just making assumptions. Yeah.
I truly don't know. It was so funny. The most cathartic moment in that entire series or the entire season for me was when you realized that Misty fucked with the transponder. Yeah. Or whatever it was. And you were like, I'm finally going to punch. You decked her in the face. I'm finally going to do something. Yeah. You're like, oh, fuck you. Yeah. Because it was her fault the whole time. You wouldn't have, like, it's actually her fault.
That's loaded. I don't know. I'm kind of like a misty defender. Well, lately I have been too, but when I got- Because out of all the other characters, she's better than the other characters. Well, Shauna is. Shauna and Thaisa to me are like evil twins. Like, you know what I mean? Like they are like- I think Thaisa has some redeeming moments. She does. She does. Or Shauna doesn't. But I was getting very frustrated when-
Like, as adults, when they're like, we have to give it what it wants, and then everyone's like, wait, like, maybe no. No, like, maybe that's better. We've seen how this has worked in the past. Like, you know, but it's like, they're so fucked up from this. Mm-hmm. It's like, are you excited to eventually, like, act out them at home after the wilderness? That's what I'm most excited about. I feel like as I got...
Just the plot for it, my mind was racing thinking about what would happen immediately because that's such a drastic contrast specifically for my character because that's when she...
you know, she kind of cracks. Right. She hasn't cracked yet. Yeah. And I want to see that. I was just thinking that as well. She hasn't cracked yet. She hasn't cracked yet. Everybody else has. Yeah. Which makes sense why she still has that like humanity and it's like she's so close to exploding. She's like all bottled up. Right. And about to explode but not quite. So I think, I don't know how the writing is going to go next season. If we get next season, I think we will. There's also been talk of that. I'm like, what? Why haven't we? We don't know yet. But it'll be,
Gotta go feel it. Yeah. But that's when she goes down like
Right. And as an actor, it's like terrible, but that's really exciting as an actor. I mean, it's exciting. It's cathartic. It's also, as a viewer, so cool. There's so, having the show based in the past and the future and having the past be so unaccounted for, kind of, as the viewer, you don't really know what happened. Yeah. There's so much room for like creativity and like the writer's room as to what actually goes down. Up until that pilot.
pilot episode in the present. You know, like anything could have happened. I just think that's so cool. Like there's endless possibilities. Yeah. But I hope, I mean, for fans, like we've already reached that point with Misty in the pilot. So I think, I don't know if people are expecting that. I think they are to some extent because we're on a pretty fast trajectory as the scientists come in. I was very baffled by people knowing that they were scientists. Um,
People on Reddit, I mean, there were just theories that people knew with casting. Like there was the casting that had come out and people were like, oh, they're playing the people that come. But how did people know that?
I keep thinking that it's through, like, sides and through auditions that people start talking. Oh, got it, got it. Because I was like... I'm like, why wouldn't you give dummy sides? But I also don't know. I'm very confused by all that because it's very random. It's not, like, based on a book or anything, is it? No, it's not. Right, like, so, like... It's not. And it's, like, it's so specific. Right. Scientists? Like, oh, of course, the scientists come. No, like, what? Yeah.
It's crazy. What's the craziest theory you've seen that you're like, oh, come on? I mean, I don't really pay attention to that. I mean, I was on Reddit the first season and all I saw was her roots. She doesn't have roots. And all they would talk about was my hair. Your hair? I was like, just pay attention to my outfit. Thank you. But it was a wig because it was just like the time. It was hard to...
My hair was really short and they had a show time, yada, yada. So I wore a wig and all the comments were on that. So that was, I was like, God damn it. I can't wait. Something to take from a show about women falling, crashing into a forest and then eating each other. I know, they're like, get a little roots. Which I get. That's, whatever. It was COVID. I was like in my dark room in New York, just looking at Reddit, like a little,
Dark phase of my life. Oh, my God. Like, I have chills thinking about that. Yeah, exactly. I was like – Moving on. I am being perceived. Oh, it's the worst. Yeah. Okay. You said something about, like, it felt like being in an audition back in that courtroom scene, and that got me thinking about is it true that you auditioned for Yellow Jackets off of self-tape and you, like, read lines off a computer? Oh, God.
Is that true? It's true. Please tell me everything. Well, it was, I was shooting this. Do you remember Quibi? What is Quibi again? Quibi was when they were trying to make the really short. Yes. Short form. But then COVID happened. So everybody was craving, you know, binging and being immersed into everything. So it didn't fully work out. But I was doing a Quibi show. I was in Vancouver where it shoots. And I shot it. I shot the audition with one of my colleagues.
co-stars and it was really quick Juliet wasn't attached yet um I think I read the character the character description I was like okay I can just wear my normal clothes I had the mullet at the time it was actually more because I had been cutting it myself so it was like a bowl cut and then long hair so it wasn't even a mullet it was something in between it was a DIY it was a DIY confusion haircut right um
But I did it. I think I did it in a couple takes. I knew that the character was easy. It was like, I've done it before. It was similar to the character that I was playing in the show. Did it. Sent it off. It's really bad. Sometimes I don't memorize. A lot of actors do that. Really? I cannot lie. Well, it depends on the script. It depends on the audition. Sometimes it's just innate.
Which sounds like, well, you just know, you know. And sometimes I'm, some actors are good at cold reading. And sometimes the cold read is most honest. Cold reading is like. Cold reading is just saying it for the first time. Got it. Which is not always like the first time. Oh, how interesting. I'd probably read it, I'd probably read it like a couple times. Got it. And then I said it and it was just kind of already, not that I had it memorized, but like I understood it.
So it was easy in that regard, but I think just because the character was close to who I was when I was younger. Whereas if I do another audition that's far more technical, I can't do that. I can't pull that off. But I forgot about it. I was doing a million self-tapes at the time. And then a month later, I think I was in Popeyes in Bushwick getting a chicken sandwich. Yum.
probably had a couple drinks and then my agents called being like remember that audition you did you booked it and I was like wait you even call back nothing which no no call back no nothing which I've never especially so early on in my career to have that I was like this is a joke right this is a joke um and then I think they were talking about Juliet wasn't attached yet but they were saying that they were looking at Juliet to play the older me and
Because everyone talks about like me. Of course, I matched Julia, but it was weird that I was cast first. Yeah. But it kind of just worked out perfectly. I've never seen such incredible younger versus older casting ever. I mean, I feel like people always say that about the show. I'm surprised the casting directors haven't gotten more. Like they need me. I mean, and you know who's so underrated?
younger versus older van. Yes. Right? Like, they look so much alike. They look so much alike and it's the same physicality. Yes. It's a lot of the same mannerisms. It's a lot of the same cadences. Well, you and Juliet specifically also have that. We kind of already had that. Right, okay. But I...
I do like certain things that I know that Juliet would do something like that. Which is kind of like a more heightened version of me when I was shooting the pilot, I think. But yeah, Lauren is so good. Liv is so good. And I think, oh my God, at the end of this season, their scenes together, it's so Twin Peaks and it's so...
Devastating. I know. And it always comes back to the airplane when somebody's dying. Yeah. When they see themselves in the screen, that feels like a nightmare. Oh my God. When they see themselves dying on the screen, it's so meta. It's so devastating. And they're like, I'm dead. And they're like, what? This is it? I know. One thing I always get so, uh,
I think what the show does so well is it kind of makes you feel like you're in psychosis. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? It's like, oh my God, wait. And I think that's what it does so well. It's like, is there a supernatural thing going on? Like, no, there can't be. Like, have we just as viewers been in the woods for so long as well? We don't. Yeah. Like the show is so immersive and I think it's very cool. It's psychological and it's not.
I like that it's very genre-bending, and you don't know when it's lying to you or not, or playing with you. Right. Because it plays tricks with you, and I love shows that do that. It does. I think the best shows do that. And I think this season specifically, it's very self-aware of its campiness. Yes, 100%. It's always been that way, but I think specifically this season, where it goes into more of the montages and very...
dependent on the music, but in a beautiful way where the music can heighten it and make it more emotional. Yeah, I'm proud of this season. I think this season, specifically towards the end, there are a lot of... Some answers. Not all. There are some answers. I mean, it's funny because we have the answer from the opening scene of season one. Which is what people... That's all the talk. Which is all the talk and what people wanted the whole time, but it's like...
At that point, it felt so much... It's so interesting because when we first see that, we aren't attached to a single character yet. No, totally. And we're so like... It's so just taken aback. We're so like, come on, who is it? Who is it? Yeah. And then it's so much more sad. I know. It's so much more heartbreaking to realize who it is. I know. With Mari... Yeah. You really grow attached to her. Yeah. Especially through the third season. Through the third season, you're like, this girl's funny. She's kind of self-aware. And...
Alexis, she's so good. She's such a good actor and had time to shine, to build that empathy and then to finally just let go just makes it all the more...
you know, drastic and heartbreaking. Was there, okay, so do you guys do like a table read for each episode? I wish. Okay, because I was about to say like. That's a blessing. I love when shows do that. Right? But it's just hard with all of our schedules and a lot of people have children. So we did that a little bit in the second season. We did that with the first season, which is good for me to just hear Juliet. Yeah.
And I miss that. But now it's like I've got that pretty dialed in. So I don't worry about that as much. But I like it just to hear...
modern day actors and just to see what's going on. But then I also like watching it blind and it feeling like a different show. Right, right. Which it kind of does to some extent. Was there ever like something in the script that you and everyone was like, oh my god. Like also kind of gagged by? Like do you remember a moment of like all texting each other being like, holy fuck, I can't believe this. I mean, yeah. I mean, lots.
Um, I guess we all knew Ben was gonna die. Oh, that was so... And they prolonged it for so long. They really did. They really did. And it's almost like you felt it with him. Like, okay, at this point, just fucking kill him. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You're like, just fucking kill him. Which worked. Which worked. Because it was like they had the trial and they were like, oh, we're gonna do it now. And then it didn't happen. But, I mean...
Stephen's so good. That scene was really hard to shoot because he is family. He truly is family. All of us at this point. And the first season is like,
God, we would all party at his house. I would drink so much. Everyone would drink so much White Claw. It was COVID. Everybody was crazy. And he was just like, I don't know, would host and just be like, he's a beautiful guy. Right. And he's just really kind. And I thought he was so good in that episode and so good this season, just in the show. But it was hard. I'm glad that they chose Natalie for that. Yeah.
Yeah, me too. Because I think it added to her depth and to her guilt and made her, of course, more fucked up and closer to the Juliet version. But they always had like a special specific bond.
Yeah, they did. Where there was trust. There was trust involved. I think there was just... This season showed so much of Nat's humanity and it was so cathartic to see. You know what I mean? They're like, ugh. In a show kind of filled with a lot of antiheroes and a lot of bad people turned bad. You're very self-aware. It was so...
nice to have one person that just like never let the viewer down ever. I want to cry. I had a moment when I was starting after we had stopped, we'd finished season three. I would start talking about her and start crying, which I've never had, but I think it's because I've grown up with her. Right. And I call it yellow jackets university. The most, it's not pussy. Yeah. Puss. I said pussy. Um, very different. Uh,
The most fucked up university, but, like, growing with Natalie has been, like, experience of a lifetime. And I know that I'll have other characters where I feel so close, but, like, maybe not for a bit. No, and I... Even as a viewer, like, I know I keep saying that, but, like, I feel... Felt such emotion, like, watching Natalie this season and, like, watching...
Just, like, her make all these tough decisions against the group. It's against, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, how hard is that? Yeah. Because all they have is each other and, like, oh, my God, when you handed the knife, like, all these things, like, you were just, you were the catalyst in making all these really important decisions. And I was, like, saying to, like, Louise, like, before you got here, I was, like, oh, my God, like...
I don't know how I'm going to separate her from her character being like, it was just, I want to like worship everything you do. Like you were perfect. She's a hero. Yeah. But that last monologue that Melanie has where she's like, I was a fucking queen. Oh my God. I got chills. I got chills. I got chills. I was like, wait, fuck you. I know. Fuck you. But like, God, like Melanie, Melanie. Oh, she is.
She is a fucking queen. She is a queen. She is a queen. But Sophie, props to her for like that quick turn. Because you go from feeling like really bad, even though she's like doing some shitty things. It's like that full, have you ever seen Breaking Bad?
It's that and The Wire that I haven't seen. Okay, you've got to watch Breaking Bad. I haven't seen The Wire, so I can't speak for The Wire, but Breaking Bad is one of my favorite shows of all time. And there is this, you know, he's doing all these bad things. He's kind of this anti-hero, but there's this moment in the show where he breaks bad, essentially, and becomes this... He breaks bad? Breaking bad? No, but he becomes this true villain. And I feel like Shawna had her Breaking Bad moment this season and became the villain. Yeah.
you know, with the help of Hannah. Yeah. With the help from Hannah. Yeah. Okay. In addition to Yellow Jackets, you were also a musician. Yeah. You just released your debut AP, AP, EP. I'm like, oh. Yellow Jackets University, AP. Sorry, that was so cringe that I said that. Um,
AP, Pivot and Scrape, congratulations. Thank you. Do you enjoy making music more or acting or is it just different? I know that's such a tough question. It's different. There are a lot of similarities. I feel like music is still so foreign to me that it's more exciting. Right. Whereas I've been acting since I was three years old. I've been acting professionally since I was like 10, started with theater, acting.
So it's still foreign to me, but I have a good sense of what to expect usually when I go into a project. But with music, it's like I haven't even done live shows yet. It's kind of just a very internal process that when it's shared, it's way more scary. And I was...
releasing the songs as I was shooting yellow jackets. And I was so much more stressed out about that. Right. Oh, for shooting. Cause I was like, I know. So it's so intimate. So personal yellow jackets isn't your story. It's not my story, which people assume a lot of the time that I am Natalie, um, which is interesting, but kind of, you know, it's going to happen if you're, that's your first role in anything. Um,
But with music, it's my first love. I feel so much more passionately about it. I look up to musicians where it's like with actors. I never really fangirl over actors because I mean, I have my inspirations, of course, and I look up to people. But with musicians, it's like this other realm of, you know, tapping to something really it's different. It's very different to me. Who are some of the musicians you look up to?
I mean, a lot of them are gone. Elliot Smith is my number one. I have Elliot Smith tattoo. Fiona Apple, Arthur Russell, Cass McCombs, so many people. And I'm always like wary of talking about people that are around now because I'm like, it's sensitive and I don't want to like
I don't know. What do you mean? No, sensitive in the way that, like, I don't know. I don't want to, like, bring them up and see them be like, hey, brought you up in that interview. No, but you're complimenting them. I know, yeah, yeah. But you're complimenting them. But I understand. It's a social anxiety. It's a social anxiety. It's a social anxiety. I 100% get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you are complimenting them. Yeah, exactly. You're not like, I actually did not feel like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think music is...
I know exactly what I want with music and I know exactly my taste. And I'm still trying to figure out my taste with picking projects right now. Like for acting? Yeah. Which is interesting. I know what I like, but like picking project-wise and like getting scripts now, it's interesting.
to try to like decipher what resonates with me and what doesn't, because sometimes the second time you read a script, you really like it. And it depends on your mood that day. Whereas with music, it's like, I kind of know immediately. It's a very, it's a guttural feeling. It's a guttural in tune feeling. Whereas with scripts, it's like it can change and it's so entirely dependent on the crew and like having a conversation. It's like,
It's less intuition based. What type of projects do you typically lean towards? Because I feel like you're in mostly like
not i'm doing horror like a horror thriller yeah um yeah i mean i was drawn to that i made a lot of me i have a twin sister yes um and we made zombie movies when we were younger oh did you really oh yeah oh i move you of course we didn't know how to use anything right um but it was all that um so it's like of course it's a very natural path i'm
insanely lucky to be where I'm at right now. And insanely lucky to be in such like elevated projects where it's not, you know, purely based upon jump scares. It's based upon, you know, something psychological and far more human and far more timely and like real topics that a lot of people choose not to talk about. So I guess, yeah,
I don't know. I feel like I've done a lot of it, so I just want to choose projects where it's new territory. Right, right. Where it's like, oh, it's a director that I want to work with that will teach me something. Or it's like, this is a character that I haven't played. I never want to repeat something. What do you feel like are some of the most important lessons you've learned thus far, like from Yellow Jackets, from Companion, from...
your projects essentially? I don't know. Cause people never really outwardly give advice, which is always like, and I'm never asking for it out of like my own, you know, keeping my own whatever. Um, I guess, um,
This is a basic answer, but it's true. Standing up for yourself, you have a lot more say than you think. Yes. And if you don't like something, you have to say it immediately or else you're going to be beating yourself up about it every day. And even if it's a little thing, even if it's like a hair and makeup thing, if it's one line, if it's one line that kills you and you just can't say it, sometimes you know when a line doesn't work. And it's like, it's just you. It's like it doesn't work. You say that. Tiny things like that make a difference.
And they add up. And if you can like bring it up in a way that is, you know, normal and nonchalant, then it's fine. And I'm still trying to figure that out and figuring out how to use my voice. But I remember even like talking to Juliet and texting her the first season just over like little random things. And she was like, just say something.
It's really easy. To me, I was like, oh, that's an option. Right, because this was your first major project. It was my first. So all I was thinking about was my goddamn reputation. And everyone, I was so keen on, I'm the easiest person to work with. Sophie's easy. She can do anything. No, make it a good experience. Make it...
make it good for everyone. Yeah. It's hard. It's, it's sometimes difficult. I feel like, especially in your twenties to learn that like easy doesn't mean you silent. Yeah. You know what I mean? I was quiet. Like I didn't think that most things that I say now were an option. Right. Um, so that's like a big thing where it's, it wasn't as obvious as I expected. Do you, did you and Juliet talk, do you still talk a lot?
We do. I saw her at this wildfire benefit show, and I'd never seen her play live, and she's crazy. She's a rock star. She's like Mick Jagger, and that was fun to see her live. But I haven't seen her in a while, and I miss her, and I definitely feel it's interesting watching the show now and feeling the loss of her presence. Yeah.
Because she really does, I mean, she fulfills Natalie. She has so much. Was it hard to shoot without her? Or not hard, like... It was hard to watch without her. Yeah. Because it was hard to get, I mean, I read the scripts, but like you feel the weight of her not being there because she has so much, she's such a rich actor and has so much presence on screen that of course when you lose an actor like that...
Um, you feel that. And I feel like, I mean, obviously she's the other half, but like, she's the other Natalie, like she is such a different Natalie. And it like, it's so interesting to see the comparison between the two of us that to lose that was sad, but also I had to get used to it at some point, a couple episodes in, I was like, oh, she's not coming back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Did she, would you, like, would she, did she kind of serve as, like, a mentor for you in that space? Yeah, never, like, you know, like, very specific advice, but more of just that feeling of somebody has your back no matter what, and there's nothing more intimate and strange than sharing a character, and it's, like...
I might not ever have that again. Especially in a TV show. Right. That is a very strange, and that's why Yellow Jackets is special. It's because you don't have a lot of shows where it's that 20-year jump. Yeah. So it's this weird, unspoken thing where we just, we have that, and I don't know that every actor on the show has that with their counterpart.
Right. Right. Right. Okay. I have. You go to me. You go to me for a little bit. Right. Right. Okay. So Cass, I am partnering with SeatGeek and they are offering me plus one to the Elvis reunion tour. And I'm bringing you and they're going to fly us to Vegas and it's going to be amazing. And we're going to meet Elvis. Hello. Are you down for that?
When the fuck? Two weeks. Are you down? Aren't you in New York in two weeks? It's right after I leave New York. Absolutely. Have you ever met? Have you ever seen Elvis? I'm looking this up right now because you're definitely fucking with me. No, I'm not fucking with you. Elvis Presley is dead. Elvis Presley died in 1977. You didn't know he died?
So, I'm going to kill you because I heard that you had tickets and you're bringing me and I'm going to freak out. You got me excited. Well, Cass, SeatGeek is one of the number one ticket partners in the entire world. If you use my code THERAPIST10, you get 10% off your ticket order. So, while we can't see Elvis, maybe we can see someone else this summer on SeatGeek. Right. Right. All tickets...
All tickets are rated on a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being not so good, 10 being the best. So yeah, maybe we can find another show to see together. Instead of Elvis. Okay, got it.
No worries. While I am not going to see Elvis with Cassidy, I am still going to use SeatGeek to see one of the many, many, many artists on tour this summer. For example, I missed Gaga at Coachella this week or this weekend. So I am going to definitely use SeatGeek to see the Mayhem tour. I am so, so, so excited. I need to get out of the house. Live music is seriously one of my favorite things in the entire world. Not only do they have music, they have comedy, they have plays, they have literally anything you can imagine. The SeatGeek app is...
is free to download and super, super easy to use. I mean, tonight I could see the Sacramento Kings. I could see the Rock Orchestra by Candlelight. I could see literally anybody I want, okay? I could see Mamma Mia. I can see Kevin Hart. I'm going to click that I need two tickets. So it's going to say the ticket price for each ticket and then the score next to the ticket. So this says 10, amazing deal. And then, like, down here it says...
nine. And so it seems like there's really just only good tickets on here. Oh, see, this is with a one. This is not so not such a good deal. But the SeatGeek app is literally the easiest thing to use. You guys know I came through for you again. Use code THERAPUS10 for 10% off your order on SeatGeek.com. That's 10% off tickets with promo code THERAPUS10 at SeatGeek.com.
Make sure you click the link in the description so you can download the app and automatically have the code applied to your account so you can use it later. Thank you, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. What are you therapist about?
Therapist. Therapist. Like angry. What are you angry about? I mean, there's too much. Well, you go first. Okay. So today is a little more superficial. Yeah. Today I was working out and, uh, good for you. I don't work out. And I, um, like, uh, lifting weights to the treadmill, but I did one last thing that sent me over the edge. I never have panic attacks ever. And, uh,
Can't ever. I do. I do. They're the worst. Yeah, they're so. And I had one today. No. Yes. After I. So I pushed myself too hard and then I got really nauseous and then I started panicking about how nauseous I was and then I got really hot and then I couldn't feel my hands and I was like, oh my God, I'm having a panic attack.
And I had to run outside and lay down. And it was so embarrassing. Like, I just felt so embarrassed. No. I was like, and they were like, everyone was like. Was that your first panic attack? My second. My first one was the most random story you'll ever hear in your entire life. Oh, my God. What happened? Somebody was telling a story about someone taking Viagra. And, like, the idea of somebody taking Viagra and just, like, having a situation that, like, couldn't.
Oh, you're like, God, I feel that. Gave me like a panic attack and I ran outside the restaurant. I was like, and my best friend Alice was like, what's wrong? And I was like, Viagra story. Like, I think I'm having a panic attack. And those are the only two times I've ever had a panic attack. That's hilarious. Once about Viagra, once in the Allo Gym. Wow. I'm so sorry you had, well, I have a lot of fucking anxiety. Yeah. But that's always when I have, where it's like the out of body, like, oh my God, I'm going to have a heart attack type sensation. Right.
So I would be, I'm pissed at panic attacks. Question for you. I don't know why this just reminded me of this because maybe it's because I always watch TV when I go to bed, but what do you watch? And I always ask my guests that I always, I mean, white Lotus, of course. Um, well, it is leftovers.
I haven't, but Jasmine's on that. Okay. Jasmine's on that? I just started it. People are saying it's a masterful, like very underrated show. Yes. And the woman from The White Lotus, I think Carrie. Carrie Coon. Carrie Coon is on it and she is incredible. She's so good. She's such a character actor. And you need to watch Love Builders. She comes from Chicago Theater too. Really? And I come from Chicago Theater. Not to her extent, but she's like in the Chicago scene. She is God. Well,
Well, she's incredible. She's incredible in The White Lotus, too. I know she shines. I don't know if you've ever had, like, a friend group like that, but, like,
I'm like watching it and I'm like, fuck. I don't really have like a trio. And all of, I mean, my friends are pretty blunt. Okay. And I'm pretty blunt. Well, I've been in trios like that. Awful. Chills. No, and like, I'll like, Louise would be like, girl. Like, because you know. Who would you be out of the trio? You're everyone. You're all of them. You're everyone. I was never Jacqueline. I was Leslie. I was Leslie. Oh. Like, Leslie's, in my opinion, the messiest out of all three of them. Interesting. Jacqueline,
Like, you know, does what she does. Yeah. Carrie Coon's character is like, you know, she says it like it is. Yeah. And then Leslie's character is the one whispering in Jacqueline's ear and Carrie's ear. She is. And then denying it and playing the field. She's the least calculated. I would argue that she's the most. Oh! Yes, because she wants to maintain that, like, equilibrium. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't even know why I attempted that fucking word. Yeah.
But yeah, she wants to like maintain her place is like kind of, but she wants to like, like be the one that each of them are closest with. Yeah.
Shit. I mean, this season is so fun. I'm obsessed with Amy. Oh, obsessed with Amy. I want her to be in everything. She is so fucking good. And so natural and so like charming. I haven't seen an actor like that in a while that just oozes charisma. I mean, same with Parker Posey. Right. I met Parker at the Valentino show.
And she was like break dancing on the floor. And I was like, you're party. Like this is party girl. This is everything I could have ever dreamed for. She is incredible. And I caught, and it made me excited to just like keep acting. And like, she's my icon. Like I look up to her so much that to have, um,
like a night with her was so special. And then to watch her in White Lotus, again, it's just like some people ooze presence. Yes. Or it's like some people just have an immediate presence on screen. Right. And it's nothing you can teach yourself. No acting class can teach that. Where Amy and her just have that. Yeah. You know what? I really noticed it with Amy in the last episode where she –
Did you, have you, are you caught up? Yeah. Yeah. I just watched last night. Do you remember the episode where, or this moment where the French girl is trying to convince Patrick Schwarzenegger's character to like stay with her and the guy. Yeah. And Amy's like, all right, babe. Like, good night. Like so casual, but just like she stole the scene. Exactly. The scene wasn't even about her. Yeah, exactly. And she stole the entire scene. It's kind of like, you watch Abbott Elementary? No.
You got to watch Abbott. It's like Principal Ava. Like she steals the scene. It's like one line. Everything she's in. Damn. Yeah, I'm trying to think of other. I'm a big cartoon person. I was a cartoon person as like a kid. I loved like Studio Ghibli and I love. I just watched Princess Mononoke in theaters. I took a little gummy before. Uh-huh.
Hold my eyes out. Really? I mean, I had the big Princess Mononoke poster in my room. Claire Danes is my favorite. So her voicing San. I think it's the most adult one out of all because it's like Spirited Away is the most famous. Right.
Totoro. Totoro is, that's probably the most famous. No, no, no. Spirited Away is definitely the most famous, but then Totoro is like the kind of, the other one. But Princess Mononoke, I mean, I forget how dense it is. What's it about? I've never seen it. I mean, I don't know how to describe, it's like war against humans and animals and it's about environmentalism and so many just like very adult topics that to have that
in a seemingly like a children's animation. It's not, nothing about it. It's very adult. It's beautiful. It's all painted and it's all, it's interesting. I was talking to my friends about this, the like the AI studio Ghibli shit that's been going around. Do you know what I'm talking about? I'm not on Twitter, but my friends are all, you know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah. My friends are all on Twitter. I hate Twitter. Yeah.
But everyone's like taking a picture of themselves and then AI generating it into Studio Ghibli. And it's gone too far with like really discussing things. But seeing that and then seeing an actual Studio Ghibli movie with...
With all of it just like hand-painted, taken years. It's just offensive. Did you learn a lot about AI while doing Companion? No. I tried. I mean, I'm so... I learned a lot of what not to say in press and stuff. It's interesting that I chose... I keep choosing very interesting movies and then don't think about it for the press cycle where I'm like, oh, this is going to be tricky. But it was fine. I'm definitely...
it's hard because we had the, the writer's strike and that was, I think AI takes away from anything original and any creativity. And it's sad to me personally, when I see artists using AI for inspiration or for anything, I'm like, it's just taking away from who we are as humans. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. It's,
It's a bummer, in my opinion. Makes it so easy. I wonder how kids, I mean, how can you, I mean, there must, there's going to be, I wonder if there is checkers to see if things are AI. Because, like, how are kids not just cheating on everything? I keep thinking, and that's, like, the conversation where, I mean, I was cheating a lot.
kid oh my god i cheated on everything wait i posted that's an art in and of itself if you can cheat well then you can get you can go far in life i cheated like a motherfucker and i posted on my story yesterday like someone i responded to someone being like i'm i'm really anxious about cheating and i said well i cheated on everything and i never felt bad my high school teacher swiped up with a sad face do you want to get into the tell me what's wrongs yeah
I was like, oh, God, yes. My long-term boyfriend and I broke up a little less than one year ago. He also happened to break up with me when I was going through the worst point in my life. He started hooking up with another girl like a week after we broke up, and I found out that they're dating now. Interesting. I know I'm up and that I turned out better for it, but I still have a hard time moving on slash getting over it. Help me. Have you ever been through a breakup? Of course. Okay, I have not. Yeah. That's devastating, right?
For, I mean, they said they dated a year. How long? She said. They didn't say? They just said long term. Long term. Yeah. To have a long term and then have somebody move on so quickly. Right. That's a slap in the face. Right. Has that ever happened to you? Not a week. A week is crazy. That's offensive. That's like, but how do you find that? Like, that's like you post about it. That's clearly strategic where it's like trying to hurt you. Right. And.
That's not a person you want to be with. Right. That feels very impulsive. That feels like you want to be with somebody that's, you know, like takes their time and is like not like that. But also how did she, I don't know. I have a lot of questions. So that is something we always miss from the pussy. We always miss context. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we like, you know, we don't know much. But like do you have any...
like musical suggestions or movie or TV show suggestions that'll help them get through it. Yeah, I mean, Fiona Apple always, if I want to hate on men...
Which I don't. That's, I mean, that's not a person you want to be with. If they're that impulsive, that's childish. Childish. I think that's childish. And that's just like, you can do better. She said she is aware or they are aware that they've done like, they are better now. So hold on to that. I prescribe Lose You to Love Me by Selena Gomez. Yeah, there you go. How good was that prescription? Like, I literally like, I don't, okay, so I already know that you're like not involved in this lore, but like, I just killed that.
What? You're going to... No, you will a thousand percent. Like, I literally just, like, I took a chomp of something and I ate it and, like, the plate's clean. Nice. Okay, so, Ann. Okay, I'm going to look at this. Ann, lose you to love me. I'm so sorry. I was just so excited that I did such a good job with that. I meant explain what a prescription is. Oh. Like, seriously.
Like I needed guiding help. Sorry. I'm realizing I haven't explained to you what the prescription is. It's like a prescription, but we're prescribing things because it's the pussies. And and it's like comes in the form of like media. So it's like a song or a TV show or a movie or a book or it could be anything. Jonathan, Fiona Apple.
You know, I've never listened to Fiona Apple. I know. I know I need to get into her. Come on. Will you get me to watch? What do I listen to to get into her? I mean, Tidal. Tidal's the first record that she made. She wrote a lot of the songs when she was 16. Wow. Which kind of makes you feel bad about yourself, too. Where you're like, I wasn't doing that when I was 16. That's like Lorde.
Lord, I know, I know. It's similar where you're just like, how does one have so much talent when they're still in high school doing calculus or whatever the hell. Right. Well, you were homeschooled, right? I was homeschooled, yeah. And homeschooling is like a joke. I was in and out of school a lot, but homeschooling is, you really have to teach yourself. It's not easy.
You're an artist. It's fine. I've been hooking up with my coworker and nobody knows, but now he's hooking up with another one of our coworkers and is trying to hide it from me. Do I confront or just quit? I'm going to be honest. I hate drama. I'm a Libra.
I like my balance. Oh, you do hate drama. I don't. You're a peacekeeper. Where I'm just like, it works with Natalie. Yeah. It makes sense. I'm like Natalie in that way. We're like thinking about drama. I'm like, I love hearing about it. If I'm not involved, like, gimme, gimme, gimme. I don't say quit because like, you know, you gotta make that money. That's not your own fault. Distance yourself. Distance yourself. That person,
is messy. That person is messy. You need to focus on yourself. Also, it's a job. It's a job. Sometimes it's hard when you get too close with people on jobs. I've never really had that where it's like, you know, but focus on yourself. Focus on the job and let it be a job. Distance yourself in a healthy way.
I'm trying to think of something to prescribe. No, sometimes we like, fuck, like sometimes I'm like, I can't think of anything. I can't. I know. I'm like a son. This is a specific. I think she also needs to stay unbothered. Like stay unbothered. Exactly. Yeah. Because like that makes people the most angry. Oh, totally. Totally. But also stay away because that person seems, seems a little messy. Mm-hmm.
This one's tricky. My long-term boyfriend and my best friend are flirting in front of me every day. What should I do? It's awful.
So I actually know of a situation like this and that's not a best friend. Well, here's where it gets tricky. Okay. So I would be a girl or whoever could just be projecting as well. You know, like there's in my opinion, like I knew these people and this girl thought that her best friend was flirting with her boyfriend and she said something. And then after that, their friendship was never the same. And they were like this. And,
And, I mean, to this day, it's like, I don't, like, you know, I don't know if they're actually flirting or they're just projecting. Not the best friend, but the...
Like the person that's in the relationship. Like, okay, let's call that. That can be an insecurity thing. You don't know if they're just projecting. Yes. It can be an insecurity thing where it's like you're already insecure about your own relationship. Yes. So that you see when you see somebody getting close, you assume the worst. Right. And I understand that mentality. It's just like that's anxious attachment right there. But I would feel like I think I would also look and we're going to be like, is it just a trust issue I have with my boyfriend? Exactly. No, exactly.
No, exactly. You know what I mean? Right. Like, let's blame the boyfriend first before we blame the best friend. Oh, no, totally. Yeah. But also, I am curious. Like, maybe get, like, a third party involved. Like, be like, do you think they're flirting? For sure. Like, you know, get someone involved. But then that can also get more messy. Yeah, but, like, it's still cleanable. Yeah. Like, you know, like, we can still clean it. No, because going directly to the best – It'll fuck up your relationship forever. If I had a best friend – oh, my, I can't even imagine. Right. If I had a best friend saying that to me –
You just would feel so embarrassed. You're like, oh my God, I wasn't flirting. Embarrassed, that affects, it's just awkward. At the end of the day, it's just awkward. Right. Especially if it's not. And you can tell that it's just insecurity. But that's tricky. Also, like, if it's your long-term boyfriend and best friend, like, say it out loud.
It makes sense that your long-term boyfriend and best friend are friends and close. Yeah. And not, like, you know. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That makes sense. Yes. And I feel like maybe this girl, someone said something to her, like, they flirt. But it's, like, I think...
Something inside of me, like, maybe I just want to see the good, but something inside of me says it's projection. Mm-hmm. Re-evaluate. Yeah. I have come to terms with the fact that I probably need to seek help for my OCD. I'm very overwhelmed. Do you have OCD? Yeah, I do. Me too, really bad. Mm-hmm. That's why I went on Prozac, actually. Mm-hmm. I'm very overwhelmed with the idea of starting the process and wanted to know if you had any tips. I love that you're comfortable sharing your experience with the world. Dash Katie. Hi, Katie. Hi.
I still have it. And it's just kind of about seeking, finding the right therapist and finding the right therapist. That's like so exhausting. And I've seen millions of therapists in my day. It's like dating. It's like dating where it's just you can't, even if they're a great person, sometimes it's not a match and the communication is not there. It's not the same. It's not the banter you want. It's not the, sometimes you want somebody to, you know, really check you or sometimes you want somebody to agree with you. I think that.
for OCD, OCD is so different for so many different people. It's so different. What really worked is starting meds and at the same exact time starting exposure therapy. What's that again? So it's like, okay, so like my OCD, like I really had rituals.
So, yeah. So it's like, yeah. Like, so like I had to look at myself a certain amount of times in the mirror before I turned off the lights. So like an exposure therapy would be like, cause this was during COVID, like having her on zoom and like turning off the lights without looking in the mirror and then like sitting there and that uncomfortableness, but also being on meds to like learn how to push away those thoughts. So like that for me was really helpful. I used to, I know this sounds so stupid. I used to have a lot of trouble adding songs to a playlist because
Like, I would have to do it four times over. And it would drive me crazy because I'm very passionate about my thing, about my playlist. So, like, one part of my exposure therapy would be just add the song and then sit there with it. And I think, like, finding a good exposure therapist and starting a medication that works for you personally, for me. Absolutely. There's so many different kinds of therapy. I'm actually...
I think everyone should be in therapy no matter what. And there's so many, and you can try a specific kind of therapy and it, maybe it doesn't work. And then you try another, you just have to be open and it's such a long process, but like you have to be open. Sometimes it takes years and that's so frustrating. Um, but yeah, just having somebody that has your back. Cause for me it was like, I have a lot of ticks that like when I get nervous, I like,
do a lot of like specific pics where I like suck in my cheeks and I'm really nervous. And all these things that I still do, but having, when I had a therapist, it really helped to just calm it down and like,
She was aware. My boyfriend's always aware and clocks it. And it's just like a signal. He can tell that I'm not in my right mind. So, this is Katie. I don't know. I think it's good to be open about OCD. And so many people have OCD. And are not aware of it. Right. And are not aware of it at all. I only knew I had it because... I've had it since I was like seven or eight. Yeah. And I only knew I had it because...
I knew that there was this show on VH1. I don't know if anyone remembers. It was called OCD Rehab with Dr. Drew. And it was like celebrities with OCD would come. And I don't know if it was celebrities, but it was people with OCD would come and go through like this reality television rehab with their OCD. And I was like, ooh, this sounds weirdly familiar. I think that's what I have. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I have OCD. And then in the show Girls on HBO, I don't know if you... Okay. I went for how... Or not the... Yes. The pic.
No. I went to a party just like that. And I was like, I'm Lena Dunham. Wait, that's my favorite show of all time.
Were you on the girls podcast? Yes, I was. I knew it. I was like. I was. Were you on the girls podcast? No, I wasn't. Oh, they're great. But I follow. They're great. And that's a go to sleep show. Are you kidding? Yeah. It's like that show's so good. Did you, have you watched girl, have you done a rewatch yet of the show? Of course. I've watched it. I've rewatched it like three times. Um, what was the hardest for you? Like what was the, which one hit the hardest for you? Mine was like the first rewatch out of college. I rewatched it second season of yellow jackets when I actually was their age. Uh huh.
Because my mom was watching the show. I was like 13 when I watched it the first time. Me too. Me too. And I'm like, I don't get it. I was like, oh, these fools. And now I get it a little bit more, but also don't because I'm like, these characters are so insane.
Insufferable. They're so endlessly watchable that it almost, if I want to feel bitter about myself, I go to that show or I go to BoJack Horseman. My mom loves BoJack Horseman. She says it's like her favorite show of all time. But you have a cool mom though. Thanks. I'll tell you she said that. But have you watched it? No, she's like, Jake, it's the best show of all time. It's the best show of all time. It's like about depression, right? It's about depression. Yeah. And whenever I feel bad about myself or just want to feel like...
I'm not alone. Yeah. I watched that show. But it's like the last thing you'd expect a fucking horse talking about being depressed and being an addict. Like, I think I need to watch it. It's so, it takes, it takes a second to get into it. Okay. I recommend it to everybody because if you know me, if you hang out with me a couple of times, it's like you already, like I went through a phase where I,
I've probably seen each episode 30 times. I'm not joking. It was my fall asleep to show. Okay. Got it. Every night. Yeah. Where it was just ritual. Yeah. Fall asleep to it. Um, but I think I've calmed down on that a little bit cause I have,
It's to the point where I know every line that's coming up. I can't recite anything, but I know every line. I'm like, this is not healthy. That's like me with Scandal or Glee. Really? Glee? Yeah, I was like the biggest Gleek. Like the biggest Gleek.
I remember, did you ever watch the like off, the auditioning? The Glee Project? Yeah, yeah. Of course I watched the Glee Project on Oxygen because I was the biggest Oxygen fan. Whoa. Yeah. That name, I forgot that that existed. It was like a whole to do. That's crazy. Do you remember the show Snapped?
Where it was like a reality television about like a woman that committed crimes. No. And it was like, do you remember? Snapped. I remember the Legally Blonde when they were all auditioning for Legally Blonde. God, Oxygen was it for me. What else? It was all the Ryan Murphy stuff. Yeah, Ryan Murphy stuff. They had Bad Girls Club. I don't know that. I need to re-watch Glee. And I think my time is now. I think I'm going to start too. Well, I know I'm about...
When was the last time? How long has it been? So the summer I left before college. Yeah. That's when I did my first full rewatch and I've actually finished the show. When I tell you I was so addicted to this fucking show, I was, I never like woken up, watch it immediately on my phone. Like I was like anywhere I could go, like it was drugs. Like anywhere I could go that and I could watch it. Like I was like, I was watching this fucking show. That's funny.
I mean, out of all shows, Glee. I mean, it's serotonin. It is. We're just like, oh, no. It's right. It's serotonin. I get it. Yeah. Did you watch that, like, the documentary about the deaths? I can't have the curtain pulled back just yet. I can't have it pulled back just yet. It's dark. Yeah, don't do it. I can't. I can't. Glee is like my... Because there's a lot of darkness behind it. I was like, I am Glebe.
I think. Like, this is like, I remember that was the first show I ever waited until, like, I would watch it as it came out, like Wednesdays or Tuesdays at eight, whenever it came out on Fox or whatever. It was like a family affair. Yes. And I would watch it and I would buy the songs on iTunes after. Yeah. My mom was like, no. No? My mom was like watching Mad Men at the time.
My family was obsessed with Mad Men. My family's obsessed with Sopranos, Mad Men, and BoJack Horseman. Isn't that a random three? That's not random. That's taste. Oh,
want to be in your family. I think you would like my mom. Mad Men. Oh my god. My twin dressed up as a random we hadn't watched Mad Men because it was way too adult. I think it was like fifth grade. She had these glasses that went up and she was like I'm a character from Mad Men and had to see the show. Wait so what does your twin do? She makes claymations. That's fucking awesome. It's insane. Her name is Ellie and
and she's like a genius truly a genius i was just in chicago um and saw her and it's just nice to go back and see her because she's my best friend and does she and you guys were always close growing up and yeah we go through phases as a twin and i think we had the same friend group which is kind of hard and i was always working so i was a little disconnected from the friend group um
And we were always kind of, we were very similar growing up. We would take turns taking on different personalities, I think. Yeah. But like she was always more, she was more shy and then she was more outgoing and then more popular and then yada yada. It was really complicated being the same school. Right. But now that that doesn't matter and like we have our people, it's,
none of that matters. Right. God, it's so funny in high school. You like, you're, you're always told like, it's not going to matter. It's not going to matter. It's not going to matter. And you're like, I truly didn't care. I honestly. Good for you. Because I was working. I was like, work first. Like none of this matters. I'm around adults all day. Like,
Everybody's a child here. I was a child, but I felt like I was like 14 going on 30. Right. Where I think that I was actually more mature than I was now because now I can actually live in my age and be myself. Right. You're what, 24, 25? 24. Got it. Yeah. How old are you? 25. Nice. Yeah. When did you graduate? I graduated 2018 from high school. Yeah, 2020, not 2020, 2022 from college. Nice. Did Ellie go to college? No. Okay, yeah. Neither did I. Yeah. But-
Here I am. My dad didn't want me to go to college. Really? Yeah, he was like, well, don't go. Like, do something creative. Oh, wow. I know. You have a very interesting family. Sophie, what did we learn today? What did we learn today? I mean, even just that last thing. I mean, I need to be corny, but I admire how honest you are. Thank you. And I don't, like, I'm not just saying that. Like, I think it's really cool. And I don't, you don't get that a lot in interviews where it's like you can,
talk about things really openly. So I think that's, I don't know. I've always, it was just a reminder because I'm, honesty is everything in artistry and life. So that was just a good reminder. Oh my God, I'm going to take that with me for the rest of my entire week. Be like, well, Sophie Thatcher told me I was honest in that great interview. I think it's the coolest thing to be honest. That's the coolest thing you can do. Well, it's very cathartic for me. Yeah. Well, part of my, that's why you're doing this. Thank you.
Thank you. Well, part of my OCD is I've always felt like since I was little, my anxiety is manifested in guilt. Feeling guilty. Guilty that I'm lying. Guilty that I'm not being like... Are you kidding? That's me, that's me, me, me, me, me. You know what I mean? Like that I'm not like just giving the full truth. So I almost overshare to like compensate for that. Totally. It's very cathartic for me. Yeah, yeah. But for me, I learned that you're the coolest person ever and so fucking talented and so fun to be around. Thank you.
such a star and when something really hit me when you were talking about those people that just like take up the scene and something that's that's something you can't teach in acting school I was thinking like she has that thank you that's her she has that thank you and yeah thank you I'm so surprised Sophie thank you for coming on thank you this was so fun I know this was awesome I had a great great I want to meet oh Brett see her again she just texted me and laughed when she said if you want Garrett she'd
Can I get the cheese and caramel? Yeah, no, we will. We will send you. You'll have more Garrett than you know what to do with. Oh, my God. Amazing. Thank you. Sophie, I love you. I love you. Thank you. Thank you.