E69: Elon Musk on Twitter's bot problem, SpaceX's grand plan, Tesla stories, Giga Texas & more
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So alive from an undisclosed location with the solti filter on. Very salty built on. Yeah.

having a great .

hair day. Yeah, that is a good hair day. Wait, hair day. My and your favorite CEO and twitter, we r. Elon must hider about.

We open sore to the fans .

and just got. Appreciate you coming to the event and coming zoom ing in what's new .

in your world. Well, let's see. Um I guess right now um i'm sort of debating the number of bots on twitter on twitter and uh, currently I like what i'm told is that the there is no way to no the number of bots it's like as unable able as the human soul basically.

So you have idea of witchcrafts and alchemy. Y is needed to determine. And I say like why why not try calling people but I haven't got a response. Like if you try calling people or something, you know like maybe try the other .

is not a but no I no I don't .

know but I I think like that would be one of the things to do to say like have you tried calling them as opposed to try to read the t leaves here that's like impossible you know uh obviously you can have account that looks exactly like a human account or is being Operated where one persons Operating a thousand accounts or something um but that post can only buy one toaster, not going to buy thousand toasters.

So you care about like number of unique real people. H that are on the system is a fundamental. And anyone who uses twitter as well aware that the the comment, the comment threads are a full of spam game and of just lot of you know fake count.

So um IT IT seems a beyond beyond reasonable for twitter took claim that the number of a uh essentially the number of real set, another way the number of real unique humans uh that you see making comments on a daily based on twitter um is above ninety five percent. That is what they are claiming. Does anyone have that experience?

Like there's a bridge i'd like to sila you know you know and and also you could buy the broken and bread.

What you .

think that is what .

yeah is mean and it's .

not five percent. What is IT?

Um I think it's so number that is probably at least uh four or five times that number. But i'd say at uh if you did so of the but the lowest estimate would be probably twenty percent. And the and this and this is A A bunch of a quite smart outside firms have done analysis of twitter and uh looked at the the the are daily daily users and their conclusion is also about is about twenty percent but that's a lower about it's not an upper bound um if you look at say um the most liked tweet on twitter um so I I have the uh the honor of of having the most liked tweet of any living human um is thank you everyone for liking my tweet including you all some of the boys out there um but on that tweet is less than five million likes it's like four point seven or something like that and that that was the where I wait about um that next time buying coa college put the cocaine back in. Definitely, it's clearly something that the public really once and cola cola corporation should really think about going back to their roots of coca cola.

Um I mean this this, I guess, is the reason why our grandparents could sort of walk twenty miles in the snow course they had cold collar with okay, this real reason you know where else that there is literally the most popular tweet um uh of any of any living human um and the twitter says that the daily the sort of monetized daily active users is two hundred and seventeen million um so why would IT be that the most popular tweet ever basically is only you know two two and half a cent of the entire user base. This seems A A very, very low number and and the most properly twice journal class around that sort of four million uh light level. So it's so like basic two percent or or less than two percent of a vee uh daily active users and and techno monitise able daily active users is how to put her first IT. So this seems how is this possible um surely there's something that maybe in ter ten percent of people would like, not merely two percent actually you .

know if you think about IT you on um there's a coral ary on youtube. What do what's the total user base of youtube and what have the most popular video is gotten there? Yeah and I think there's a billion or tube maybe a billion people using youtube and those the most popular videos have tens of billions of views. Yes, that might be instructive.

Exactly that ratio makes a lot more sense. Um so the something does that up here. Um and my concern is is not that is that like you know is IT five or or seven or eight percent but is IT potentially eighty percent or ninety percent bites? Yeah you know is that I mean, I certainly there are some real people on twitter, but uh but what's if IT is that an order of magnitude is is IT fifty percent is set of five and that's obviously an incredible material number um especially since twitter uh lies primarily on brand advertising as a to specific click through advertising where you make a purchase if you if you make a purchase IT doesn't really matter that much. But for brand advertising, which is really just awareness, advertising IT matters if if real humans are .

saying that or not yeah and and so I guess stepping back for a second, people are curious why you want to buy twitter. Why is this so important to you? And then I guess, what are the chances you think the deal gets done at this point? So it's too part of why is IT so important to me?

I mean, some of this I have articulated before, but I think is a need for A A public town square, digital town square that uh where people can debate uh issues of all kinds um h including the most substance of issues um and in order for uh for that to be the case, you have to have something that this is broadly inclusive as possible that has as much of the the the people on the platform is possible uh where it's uh IT feels uh baLance from a political standpoint. Uh it's not bias one or the other um and where at the system is transparent as is why I think it's important put the algorithm on on github and actually allow the public to see IT and critical and improve um and if there are any manual changes, uh sort of shadow banning as is cold uh or each a increasing decreasing the prominent for tweet uh that's done manually that that should be noted. Uh so you know what has happened and it's not just, uh you know where is right now we you don't know what the heck is done on. Why is one tweet doing well, wise and sweet night, the algorithm that someone manually to intervene uh why are some accounts band uh with no record apparently um and um you know the the the reality is uh that that twitter this point you know has uh a very far of bias um and I I would class myself as as a moderate neither republican nor nor democrat um and in fact, uh, I have voted voted overwhelmingly for democrats h stack overwhelmingly like I much sure I might never voted for republican just to be clear right now this election I would. Well.

dave OK, hey, if .

we're .

going to be .

going, I mean.

let me ask you to try make is that this is not some sort of attempt to um it's not some right we take over as as pets. So people left me fear but rather a moderate wing takeover um and an attempt to ensure that the people of of old of a political beliefs feel welcome on on a digital towns are that and they can express uh their their beliefs without fear being banned or shadow banned um and and and that we we obvious ly need to get rid of the bots uh and and trawls and and people that are Operating uh huge bought armies and attempt to uh unduly influence the the public opinion so this is what I think is very important that we have that like the the as most people in history of have have thought about IT and so like free speech is important for a for a healthy democracy IT is important and freely matter.

Like say when is precious matter most, it's when when is someone you don't like saying something you don't like uh that's when IT actually matters um so um you can obviously and and it's pretty annoying when someone you don't like this, someone you don't like that that's bad but it's actually a good sign of of uh that that you have free speech um so um I think I get trashed by the media time. It's fine. I don't care to do IT twice much, couldn't care less. Um but it's indeed of the fact that even though you I have like a lot of resources, I do not actually have the ability to stop the media from trashing me and .

that's actually a good thing yeah I have to ask um with regard to this current administration, I know how hard you work on the card company and then buy in. You've been a lifelong democrat. You've donated to a bomb and everybody probably never voted republican and yet and the same is true for j rogan.

Joe rogan is a bernie Sanders supporter and that the democratic party has been openly hostile to joe rogan and biden can even say the word tesla or invite you to the White house when they do an evy summit. I'm tourist, just on a very personal basis. What does that feel like to have that experience where the party you supported wouldn't even say the name of your company or invite you there? They should be celebrated .

in in the work you're doing? Yeah I mean, IT IT definitely feels like this is not right. Like this is the issue here is that the just, uh this the the delicate party is overly overly controlled by the unions and by the trial lawyers, particularly the class action lawers um and journal if if you will see something that that is not in the interest of the people um is on the on the democrats side, it's going to come because of the unions uh which is just not the form of the and the the traders uh that word actions will be happening from democratic in the interest of people and then um to be fair on the republican side， uh if you say like where is something like not not ideal happening, it's because of corporate evil um and a religious elements that's generally where the bad thing be coming from on the republican side um that are not represented of the people. So um in in the case of biden, he is simply too too much uh captured by the unions um which was not the case with obama um so in the case of obama, you could have a quite reasonable um and I think he took more of a view uh that you know if you take the concerns, the unions into account but uh there are bigger issues at stake and biden does not do that.

You will have a have a tesla question I read today. It's incredible. There was a bloomberg article that said the following so the set up is IT said since U N.

Public tested up twenty two thousand percent a eleven quarters of prosequi til profitability. So hitting on all soylent ders. But the public analysts.

we have to live. That's a cargo. It's a combust up on the gap.

People were charged, but analysts when they put out their projections, okay, it's it's one of the most enormous bands for any company in america. The Price targets for tesla, despite all of this success, some habit at two hundreds, some habit at sixteen hundred all over the place you tweet A A couple months ago test us. Not a company. It's like six companies inside of a company like you've had to yeah maybe more. Can you just explain to people all these companies inside the super companies, just so folks have a sense of what had to be done to get here?

Okay, I mean this this question require thought and I probably be leaving out uh quite a few things. But if you look to say what what does a typical uh car company do um what what they do is they they um they they assemble vehicles um and they send them to dealers and they manage the supply chain uh the the they might make the engine and typically will make the engine, but most of the parts are made by suppliers um and a lot of the actual technology development is done by suppliers and most of the vehicle software is done by suppliers.

So the actual amount of a real work done by car companies, what do you think of sort of like A G M afford is not actually that much um and but is like so they don't do they don't do uh sales, they don't do service um they uh so in the case of tesla, for example, we we do we do our own sales and service. We don't have dealerships. Um then uh tel also has by far the biggest network of super charges, sort of the electrical covalent of gas stations.

So we put the entire global super charger network, which is sold the most advanced by far the best of waited to charge your car when traveling long distance or if you live in the city um and uh and don't have the ability to charge your car the street parking an apartment. So the whole super charge c network we we developed the super charge c network we deploy IT. I think we have fifteen thousand super charges globally um in travel anywhere in amErica right now with the the teller super charges network.

Um then uh in terms of vertical integration, uh we uh we make the the battery pack, uh the the paralympics to drive unit. Um we uh we actually make more integrated in the park. We actually make so much of the car. And internally, we're radically integrated.

Um not as so because we think that there is some religious reason to be about innovative, but because, uh, th Epace u p, if you needed to move, which is much faster than the supply chain to move and to degree that you inherit legacy supply chain, you and inherent constraints including the speed, uh cost and uh and technology and then tells IT is as much as software company as IT is a heartless are company. So the software that runs in tesla Operate the car, Operates the screen, uh is the charging. Uh all of that stuff is developed by tesla and um swipes of a car, a tesla O S in the car.

I go for a long time and that very importantly, tears love has built A A an autopilot AI team from scratch that is the best real world A I team on earth. If anyone else has got a Better one. I'd like to see IT demonstrated in a car now the full of driving data at this point.

Uh, I can very often and take you with zero interventions across the barrier from sanaa marine. So through complex traffic, it's really quite sophisticated um and I like they want to to join the beta. Look the we are in the a hundred thousand people are not tiny and we will be expanding that to another public a million people, a million I don't on that order by the end of year. So um it's um this we we also put .

the .

chip team because there wasn't wasn't hard ward to that. We could run the brilliant A I on a we can just fold the trunk with a whole bunch of G, P, U. And and because crit, a translate GPU that would have been very expensive, and take masson's of power of cooling a, just to people do what the tesla designed, uh, full of driving computer can do so.

And we started chifeng from scratch, decide IT IT was the best in the world and still the best in the world several years later. Um and we're also then developed were designing A A dojo uh civil computer to veiled process the um all the video that's coming out from billions miles of beta because just sort of like the way that that is pretty good to compete with google because they have so much data and have all the people doing searches all the time and humanity is training IT. The same is true of of tesler. You really need billions of miles, ultimately tens of billions of miles of training data combined with A A vast training computer and then uh optimize uh inference harder in the car um and say they are A I and training especially software across the board to be able to achieve a few of driving solution.

I just when he opened test ligia factory member this city year years ago, I just told the audience story quickly and he puts the slide up there and he says, guys, we're not actually building a factory. We're building a machine that makes machines. And he puts the layout of the factory and IT looks like a chip.

And IT was basically like how you would actually lay out a microhelp if you were, or, you know, you were like a layout engine. IT was the crazier thing i've ever seen. I was like that was when i've first got IT. You know, you walk contending, you see what's .

happening and you have an insurance company, how you're doing .

insurance for tesla owners .

and an uber competitor and eventually a robot taxi were competitor. Or I pay.

yeah, insurance is like quite a good.

Now are you okay? I'm OK okay.

Because the current chance thing is a bigger deal. I may seem a lot of people are paying um you thirty forty percent as much as their least payment for the car in in current trance.

Um so the concerns industry is incredibly efficient because they're just a person ally good like so many um so of metal entities you you got from insurance to agent always to the the final sure there's like a half dozen companies each taking a cut um and then um the it's all very statistics that this um even if you are a very good driver, like you could be like you know twenty years old and a great driver but they it's all statistics so you can't get you can't get a sure extremely expensive um so but tell that allows for real time insurance based on you how you actually drive the car. Um you can actually if you drive car safe way, you actually have lower insurance. So our is is is interest is based on how you actually drive, not how know historically people that for your whatever demographic have drive. And and then you can close the loop around your a insurance rate by simply driving Better and looking at your score and and and blowing your assurance in real time. And people do IT to promote safer driving.

I actually have had this experience because in my household, two people drive my car, and one of them has a ninety three score and the other one does not. They have like a six. And you may have met this other person, but i've been trying to work with her on the aggressive terms and stops in advance of our insurance spill, which we're hoping will go down. Yeah at some point you the one question is this twitter deal g going to get closed? You think the chance is here?

Well, I mean, IT really depends on on a lot of factors here. Um i'm so waiting for a some sort of logical explanation for the number of sort of faker spam accounts on twitter um and twitter is refusing to tell us ah so you this this seems like a strange thing.

Um great sorry is are they refusing to tell you you don't think they really know? I mean there's a good chance may just have no idea .

they claim that they do know .

yeah and they claim .

that they got this complex methodology that only they can understand.

But the guy who landed two rockets simultaneously.

which is through stir this children and then you .

throw the northern .

of and comes you in a dream. I don't know um but there should be some uh you know objective waiters. So the thing because this is this is a material public state.

should you know .

it's it's a you know it's a material at bus. Uh my statement ah you know if if if they in fact uh have been um for surfer's claiming less than five percent of figures fan accounts but in fact IT is four or five times that number or perhaps ten times that number. This is a big deal.

Um it's not IT seemed like if you said, okay, i'm going to agreed to buy your house, you say the house has less than five to seven minutes. That's that's an acceptable number but if IT turns out IT is ninety percent termites, that's not okay you know it's not the same house this made modesty of you might leave illiterate your housel disappear because this mostly minute two months um so that that would obsess just not be appropriate. So in making twitter off I was obsessed lying to upon the the truth and accuracy of their public filings. In those those filings are not accurate. It's simply not that that it's it's not you can pay the same Price for something that is much worse than they claims.

And you know they say you want life and negotiations. So at a different Price, IT might be a totally viable deal, correct?

I mean that. I mean, I don't know the question UK, but I really know you more more questions I asked. The more I the more my concerns a grow. so. You know at the day, acquire has to be fixed ble and and fixable with reasonable time for me and without revenues collapse along away all the stuff.

Um and so you know I really need to see how these things being calculated and and I can be some deep mystery that is like more complex than the human soul or something like that. Um it's not to be you know I think we can apply the scientific method to those and try to figure what's really going on. And twitter's revenue is is primarily a pendent, I think seventy percent or some that order on brand advertising as opposed to specific purchase advertising is a big deal because brand advertising is not not not a purchase that results from that. So it's basically, you know how much mindshare or like this, if you a big company, how often do they hear your name? Um it's as opposed to something that where you can directly measure the outcome um so that that means that they're somewhat going on faith um and if that faith is undermined or or reduced because of the reality of the situation coming to the four, then the text revenue for so the t um what is revenue uh will be uh significantly impair and that's a major problem you want.

Did you have a chance to ask these questions .

during your negotiation? I D I, I was relying to on their public filings. So should they like the private public and this is Normal for a public company if you yeah if you make a formal filing um that that that is what investors are lying upon or lying on, whether they are making an acquisition offer or simply buying some shares.

So this is this the accuracy of these filings is important, whether you're buying one share or the whole company. And so if these filings are inaccurate, if they are sort of potentially, yes, it's a big deal. You want give a sense of why this has spent such a persistent problem for twitter.

Do they not have the technical capabilities to solve the the boat problem? Or is IT more of like this? A you've under prioritize the issue or been unwilling to because potential verifications for ad revenue, I I don't know it's it's sort speculate at this point. So the you know the the the worst interpretation would be that they don't want to look too closely at the thing because they might not like the answer every the worst interpretation um the best i'm sure what the best interpretation is but at least bad interpretation would be maybe they thought that was this way.

But the way they were doing that was wrong and they didn't realize their mistake and and simply weren't pay enough tension um IT this seems as though IT should be a lot easier to get rid of the box and and spam and roles then uh I like this is not some we're not trust, but the atam here you know um not trying to get to the moon. Okay just trying to uh look at the mt of obviously scammy accounts. If it's if it's like you bitcoin, give away you probably a spammer you like maybe you know wait, they're not giving .

away a hundred fifty eight. I just sent you teddy.

if you send me two bit coin, i'll send you one back, right?

That's my what if I send you twenty actually um I thought one of the interesting things that came up in your product road map or I guess this was released and people covered IT, was the possibility of twitter becoming kind of a super APP with payments included. Um may perhaps he even dose or something this seems to me based on your work with with David, a paypal like A A pretty brilliant idea. What's what's the vision there are in terms of if you were able to buy IT perhaps at the right Price, what would IT look like if, you know, I could add Jason, to add elon mosque, you know, ten box or something if we were splitting a check or something?

sure. Well, for those that abused, we chat. I think that we chat. Actually a good model if you're in china is basically you can live on we chat. This is everything um IT sort like twitter, plus k pal, plus hope of things and all all into one with a great interface. And it's it's really an excEllent APP and we don't have anything like that um outside of china.

So um I think IT such such an APP um would be really uh useful um and IT just like the utility of of the uh of of of sort of A A spam free thing where you you can make comments, you post videos, you can uh you know think it's important for content creators to have a revenue share. Um now now this this does not need to be done to twitter. IT could be done from something that's quater scratch.

So IT could be something new. Um so really but I think this thing needs to exist whether IT is converting twitter to beat the sort of like kind of all income sing APP that that accept everything from digital town square were important ideas are debated, you know max, trusted and inclusive. And in the point where you have a high trust situation, then payments uh h whether it's uh crp to or fiat make a lot of sense. Yes, we just once is incredibly useful and that people love using um so but IT, it's either convert twitter to that or start something new those the two but I just need to happen somehow.

Well, it's interesting you bring that up because the Price of twitter was pretty high and you've built a couple of companies and some engineers like to come work for you um and you've now gone through the intellectual exercise of studying all this um if you are looking at the two choices now fixing twitter, given all these problems and maybe just starting your own version, which one of your leaning tours because you I have watched to build a couple of companies and the products have turned out pretty good. So is IT easier for someone like you to just start from scratch?

I mean, I think it's certains. The my my default inclined is to stop things from scratch. Uh, I am, i'm not really.

I don't buy, buy things like this. This sort of year like like spaces was started from scratch. You in the case of of tesler, uh, you know, IT was like five people.

If still the sky might ever hard was the worst guy ever worked with Price to claim like so the credit essentially for a tesla. If you damn great, why don't just go created another court company when inspired? But anyway but that's .

a pretty good story. I mean.

yeah, remember I made no.

but I remember having this conversation with you. We were having a conversation about the roadster. I think I can tell the storm. I said, how's a gopal and you said, well, like at one problem, IT turns out the roads to parts and putting IT together across one hundred and ninety thousand yeah and I said, I gave you one hundred fifty four number sixteen so if you make two thousand of these, you're gone to lose eighty million dollars and you are like, yeah, or double that I mean, they basically the parts of the car costs more than they were selling before. When you were starting .

to involved that he was, no, I am ent. Twitter went. Tesla was nothing but a piece of paper.

Let let me be Christal clear Christal booking here. 呃， no, they didn't bring me in either. I was going to start. I was going to start an E, D company with J V stringer.

And based on the the A C repulsion t zero a and when I, when I asked A C repulsion if I was okay to do that, uh, they said there's also some others who want to create an E V company, but have not created one yet. Yes, what would you like to join forces with them? And I said, okay, well, will do that.

That was a huge mistake. Jb, and I should have just started the car company ourselves instead. Uh, we are teamed up with the ever hard topped and right, a big mistake.

Uh, the the the actual moral error here was me trying to have my cake and eat at two, which is like, uh, I just want to work on the technology and the product and have someone else be the CEO and sort of run the business Operations because I just like working on technology of product consign and and and also is like doing space sex, you know, of the time in a rock going up so I seemed like, uh, okay, this is like I always wanted to electric AR company this is how I can have my cake needed to uh that was a huge mistake and fundamental a moral error um and uh so so uh and I had to freak B C R. And I don't want to be basically um uh so but that comes going to die. So uh so we start really just nothing. And a the you know the T R A prototype from ac propulsion not not IT IT that's the press to tesla um one ha clear once again。 Uh when uh we created tesler I I when I joined, there were no no employees, there was no intellectual property, there was no prototype, there was no and nothing Christal fucking clear.

IT almost bankrupted you. I mean you that that sent you to the Cliff of.

I mean, yes, we're on the regular edge of background. Pt y so many times that was ridiculous. Um and one two thousand he was one of those years where basically the new gym and just a gm g uh ford almost went bankrupt. And um you know try to raise money for a start up electric car company in two thousand eight while G M going bankrupt was uh difficult to say the least um yeah people angry that I even asked them uh for money I fucked you and get hang up.

So the the only way that that that that test actually made IT through two thousand eight was uh a subset of the existing investors um which something like you like antenna gratias and you know um Steve job and and and and a few other key people our iron Price uh who I hold a degrave h to to the day um and and I I quite put in all the money I had left and they said everything, literally everything um uh I didn't know have a house uh so uh right I fat the house so is like staying actually in jeff sica calls bedroom spare bedroom um and and but they the subset the best is would say O I as much as I put everything um and and then we closed that around six P M. A Christmas of two thousand eight, I was last hour, the last data IT was possible because after that people are cut, breaking for holidays. And we were a bounced perl two days after Christmas.

IT was pretty that stores that, I mean, IT was an incredible moment in time. And people also forget at the time that the first two rocket space that sent up didn't exactly make IT .

orbit like one of the .

first three. And I remember having dinner with you at that time, and I asked, yeah, hey, howwid IT going. I heard goco says you got four weeks of payroll left, and you said, that's not true. And I said, thank god. And you said, we have two.

Yes, I both based acts in tesla in two thousand eight. If we would simply paid our suppliers on time, we have gone back immediately.

Tell us, tell us actually IT was IT was a .

pretty crazy .

moment time because I also remember asking you, we were having dinner of bow and I said, certainly it's got to be some good news and you took out your blackberry to date the conversation, I don't remember IT go and you said, don't tell anybody, jack out, no problem. You showed me the clay version of the model. S.

yeah, the most beautiful card ever seen.

I said, oh my god, is stunning. How much was going to cause he said, I think I can make IT for fifty thousand and remember, was yesterday said, if you make that car for fifty thousand, you change the the world and you .

did IT was a little more than fifty thousand but.

I sure I ask about space. okay. Well, as well, because I want to ask one more personal question. Has life gotten easier for U. S.

His companies have hit scale? Or has the complexity made life even more more chAllenging? Because those early days, IT was just fighting to survive. Nobody knew who you are. You are anonymous.

And I was really just about the world and now let's face that you the world's most famous guy um and ever is watching everything you do. But these companies are also very big. So what's life like for you today? Are you enjoying what you're doing everyday?

Um well, I think it's somewhat of a roller coaster um so they're like good days and bad days um and there are doors of crisis issues and you know like sort of being knocked on wood like we're not like facing you know death in the face. I like it's it's it's definitely like quite stressful when like you know death is like trying to eat your face off and like the the phone is like you just and right there you know. No, that is pretty stressful in that situation. So like right you know both space x and tesler have um different cash reserves.

So like you know, it's like we're doing get in the face because to see IT over in the rising, you know so I don't want to get place and entitles because um IT but IT is not like just forming at the mouth the national and twenty year your face of uh on a daily basis that that certainly moved on from that point um and hopeful we never never um but but there are a lot of issues that need to be IT. Just like if if you're see you of a company, the tore level is high and if you don't do your choice, then the company goes to hell and I hate doing choice, Frank so uh who do who does? Uh, so that's the real like there's a whole bunch of sort of uh you know personnel issues and legal issues and and and things that I I I don't find enjoyable al to work on.

But if I don't work on, then the company suffers. So it's more like just the sheer volume of work isn't sane. That's the um and then and then you know go to some go add to IT witter. I I mean I like .

to processor yeah I mean I I have a .

habit of biting off more than I can choose and I just sitting there would like to punch cheeks.

Tell a you tell us a little bit about where we are SpaceX like how you find the ability to go to mars, but then also commercially still build um a conventional space business domestically. I think this russia thing was probably really good for space ex. If you want to just tell us a .

little bit about that um sure um well the I mean the goal of space sex is to develop the technology that enables life become multipactor um and and make him about his space bring civilization which I think is very exciting inspiring thing.

And it's like some of those things where you can get that I think just makes kids like be excited about the future and and we need things that are inspiring and exciting and and make future seem like seeking to be Better than the past. Life can't just be about so very one very problem after another. It's Better to be like like what's what inspiring and exciting. And I think that a future where we are space and civilization is one that we can all get excited about um and and we can go out there and find out what's what's out there and in the of what's the making of life and wear the aliens and hopefull they're friendly so uh well, it's very interesting. I do get that about the aliens question right and I I have not seen any evidence of variance um and I i'll be the first you know what .

about IT whatever .

I tell you, I definitely tell you this aliens and you know I think we're quite helpful for you. Like if if we found aliens like probably basics to get a ton more revenue because people like omen aliens we have had upgrade our space technology ponto was what if no um .

is like you know that the .

idea that the idea that you build um basically the ability to do orbital cargo, take all those profits, launch starting, take all those and move IT all into building something that can get tomorrow. Is that the kind of rough plan?

Pretty much if he feels like A A three slide powerpoint would be pretty much as you describe, which is um developed rockets that are that are capable of of taking a satellite testore bit and uh cruel to the space station um your bitterly serving government commercial a space motion needs um and then uh build a global communication system in space uh that obviously IT does a lot of good for earth but by providing a internet internet connectivity to the least served a satellite system is really great for remote locations um and in a countryside or or the remote islands or or places where someone's trying to cut off .

their internet as a prae lue to a war we take them to system like star wars yeah yeah .

so it's like, you know so I can be pretty pretty helpful. Like I think like a song, like basic I think is a sort of force to get in the turn right um by providing uh connectivity to the the the the least served where they're but either no connection or A A very expensive or poor connection uh you know um the like work we're connecting a lot of school remote schools in brazil right now.

I'm actually a to begin be headed there uh sort kick things off um but they got our schools. I have no connection vary at all and in a modern age, uh how do you learn with no connectivity you I guess old textbooks and stuff, but it's really um you're a huge disadvantage if you um have no digital connectivity. Um so I think this is a lot of good that trying to do in IT despite by itself but but then the the the revenue generated from stalling is what can enable the a comment uh crude based on the moon, which would be the next you know next step from Apollo, which is like this not not go there for a few hours and then head back. Let's have a one of the occupied science station on the moon um and we could also build um some pretty epic uh telescopes uh on the moon that would enable us to learn more about the nature of the universe and and forget what's going on and maybe detect those aliens.

Um do you do do you think that there's enough profit in those businesses to fund all this? Or do you need wall street and other investors to come share the load with you?

It's kind of you going to mars a partnership with the government does IT need a partner with governments together.

Um well, I think technically IT does not need partner with governments um but of course the government support would be helpful. Um so um it's going to very expensive to build self sustaining city on mars, like in order for us to become multiplying ear in a way that's um the the key thresh hold is um at which point does the city become self sustaining such that if the ships from earth stop coming for any reason and we could be any reason we were three, or could be just civilization subsided and and just gradually got the crap that or something but but if the ships stuff coming, the respired ships from earth stuff coming to us for any reason, does the city still survive? And and that's that's like really a large based resources that that are needed uh on mars you can be missing any one critical ingredient and so and think of this like there are these various great filters.

You know that pp stops civilizations um and one of the great filter res is where we become a multiplying ET species or not will humanity be one of those species that passes the great full trip of going beyond a one planet and being in all the planet species? And this is certainly something we will have to do at some point because the the sun is expanding and will eventually boil the oceans um and destroy your life on earth. So if you care about life on earth, you should really care about life of multiply italian ultimately multiple dollar because otherwise you're basically saying you you're signing the death world for all life as we know IT if it's inevitable. Um and then there's also the the very thing that killed of the the dinosaurs and I mean you look at the fossil record, they've been five major extinctions uh that sort of on the order of eighty eighty of all creatures on earth dying um for wide range reasons um but h and then humans can also know with the world were three danger um that where that that other teachers didn't have where we we could do ourselves in um by for missing sing advance technology and and just know having some radioactive hell hole that's let's left after world or three so um you know what you could even character zit potentially as which will come first world war three or uh life becoming multiplatform month and yeah sorry I was going to check but .

um you know when you think about the importance of going to mars verses solving critical energy and climate change problems here on earth, obviously the effort with tesla as related to sustainable energy. And I think going back to like probably the thousand and fifties, there are engineering designs around plasma fusion or fusion based systems that have evolved to these plasma systems, to these toxic systems. And every year, every decade, it's like next decade, we're going to have IT.

What's your point of view on where plasma fusion systems are? Are we going to have fusion energy this century, this decade? And does IT create limitless less energy, whether electricity production goes up by ten thousand and fold and the Price of electricity drops by ten thousand fold? And then what is that world on earth look like if that happens? I guess question is, like, is that technology real? When does that happen? And what happened to the world here, when and if that happens?

Question but then let me the point out, the actually issue if question is like uh is is possible to solve uh future energy uh one hundred percent yes definitely definitely, definitely is for sure. Um so the the and and really just using a talk style which is like IT basically a donor ring with uh uh with electro magnets that controlled the the the a the the way to solve that is simply scale of the talk mark uh fusion is uh very much a scale.

Best thing you want to minimize your self body right show. So as you scale up up, uh a talk mark, you reduce yourself show, which means like the the volume we have relative to the surface, uh, you you now have much more, uh, you can basically have a hot zone in the center that's relative far away from the walls and and had more of a hot zone. Um so the the so it's it's not in my mind a question as to whether refusing can work, but there is a question as to whether is economically viable um and and whether is competitive with a with with alternatives. I think that the economic viability of fusion is a much bigger question and I I think the answer probably is that uh a fusion earth if effusion is not competitive economically, I think that is that is uh I I would say probably not competitive economically by order of .

where is IT where does that make is that a material breakdown or where is the .

breakdown economic? Well so so you can just um use a Normal hydrological, you know you you need to use like deuterium and try to him like unusual forms of hydrogen en millions three uh uh you know that there um there are some. Some uh other types of of fusion that could be used.

Uh but um these are just not not like there's not a lot of this raw material. It's difficult to get the row material. So first have to get more material.

Uh, that's that's expensive, more material um and then um is not just about generating the the the energy. You've got to um turn that energy into usable electricity. You can just have a hot thing, okay? So the hot thing has to translate to usable electricity. So I think you got you've got a cost of a fuel issue, which is very significant. Uh you've got you got how how much you knocked down from uh when you generate the heat to uh when you actually can run that into electricity, um you've got some very difficile maintenance issues with with the if a fusion reactor um so uh and that should be then compared to alternatives. Uh the sustainable entire that I think uh are overwhelmingly more competitive are um uh so energy, wind h geothermal, yr o uh some title and energy but it's really primarily uh solar uh and and wind um now you can really say like why bother creating uh fusion on earth when we have a gigg antic fusion reactor in the sky that just works with zero maintenance and IT shows up every day but no one can .

we scale to .

thousand x or one hundred x our electricity production here using solar, another renewable sources.

yes. So the amount of uh services are you need to uh power of the united states is remarkably tiny um so you need like basically roughly a hundred miles by one hundred miles of territory. And I also in one place in the united states to power of the united states, it's like a little corner of texas or you entire country um and and then if if you you you you can basically power a you you probably take just over alone um without displacing uh anyone's home uh power and economy ten times the size of the united states in the united states on land and you if you extend that to water because earth seventy percent water now I mean you you can now we could probably have validation that is one hundred times as energy intensive as we currently have IT. So what what does .

that look like was the last part of my question, which is a world where energy costs, say it's a hundred times cheaper than they are today, and we have a hundred times more energy production capacity. What what what changes about civilization? What do we do differently? What do we see change most kind of ticals?

Well, currently we we're not because of of just journal, uh, lower th rates almost worldwide. Uh, civilization is not headed to a have a population that is order making tunde Better than where they currently headed towards a population decline um and this is almost everywhere and well in the world um so uh IT IT basically seems as as as soon as you have like organization um and and education below certain level and incoming certain level, birthday planet um and so as countries get get wealthier of the both plumet, it's it's our current tube because people will say like, well it's too expensive to have a baby.

No the the wealthy of the are the fewer kids you have um the more educated you are, the few kids you have. So um it's it's it's it's the best um so so I not sure who to usual that energy um unless as a significant change in the growth rate um or we have a very robot oriented economy, that's also possible. So if we've got a lot of you know, four wheel robots in form cars and h android, a humanoid robots, then you could certainly see that there be the paste for order valued more energy. But it's not coming from the humans unless something major changes on the on the human a birthrate uh, level. This, by the way, is I think the biggest single threat to civilization uh.

right now is the why do you think the these people just make those decisions when they become more influence is is that they just become more selfish or there's more things for them to do and they have more money to spend on themselves and they say, you know what? And I don't want to have a large family. I want to go to kitchen.

Yeah, well, there is this like weird, like mind bioactive thing where some people are think like having fewer kids is is like Better for the environment. Total nonsense. The environment is going to be fine. They're going to be fine even if we if we doubled the size of humans.

Um this and I know a lot of our environmental stuff so um you know um you that we can't have civilization just do windle into nothing um and you japan's leading indicator here, like the japan's population declines by six hundred or thousand people last year that lost both three history um is that was pretty bad um so I don't know we and I think so so this one element of this is, is a lot of people to think that having kids is is somehow bad for the environment. I want to be clear, it's not is essential for the main for maintaining civilization that at least maintain our numbers. We don't actually need to grow dramatically, but at least let's not uh, you gradually dwindled away. And until of civilization ends with us all in adult diver and in a one per like, we don't want to civilization to end in adult diver with the winter, I would say. Blek leak instead.

What I mean, uni, i've had this conversation. I mean, in japan, I had two people tell me when I was air like, I think it's immoral to bring humans into the world. I mean, people have gotten very said about the future. It's kind of crazy world's great life of.

yes, no, this specially I heard many times, like, how can I bring a child into this terrible world? I like, have you read history? Because let me tell you, that was way worse back then. Okay, yeah.

Now is a good time. I have good time to ford. Hey you know listen, I know you're super busy, but I want to ask you about the move to texas because i've been thinking about IT Austin, california. I don't know, some standard IT told you to go fuck yourself.

And like, you know, a couple that actually .

used to be turning into a bit of trend. But how has building the tesla gig, a factory which I got see an asset in a couple weeks ago, and there was one of the most inspiring things i've ever seen? I mean, I don't know how many months I took to build there, but how long did they take to build that? dread? not. And then what would have taken to build that in california alive? Nia .

undergardeners, so we will. The giga, texas, which is the bigger factory in north america, I think possible bigger factor in the world um and it's it's three times the size of pana gon to give you a sense of scale OK this is big and big. It's like it's where is that so big where like you I was .

trying to find you in IT and IT. I was trying to drive around and he took me about forty five minutes to find you.

Yeah like now you have to like call you can't like find someone in the body, have to call them on yourself ell phone and say where are you you know so um I mean buildings is like uh uh just under a mile long and we're actually been extended to will be like literally a million um and about a quarter mile wide uh and it's uh A D V tall so it's just uh ridiculous ly big. Um and what you think about like for manufacturing situation, like what what are the two the two things that really define manufacturing competitors are economies of scale and technology.

And so if you ve got an ACE on econic, like if you sort of maximize your ACE level on on technology and you maximize your ACE level on scale, this is obviously going to be the most competitive situation and that's why the first and giant um and the the a good texas will go all away from um cell row materials like like basically rail cards of cell raw materials coming in and then forming the battery cell, the battery pack, a building the the the mother uh casting. We also have introduce to major innovation, which is to cast the entire a front third and real third of the car as a single beast. Um I got the idea from toys, actually, because I was like, how do they make toys? Those are cheap.

They just custom is like, world, can you would cast machine that big? And I like, well, no one ever has. And like, is are we breaking physics? Like, no, this has ask them. And there were six major casting machine supplies in the world and five people said no. The six said, maybe i'm like, i'll take that as yes.

Why me? You wanted do this for the model three, but I was just too soon. Now it's almost there.

Actually this partly comes from the multi which is actually fantastic car many ways um um but we were rightly criticize for an inefficient design uh with for the front rear body um like Sandy monroe, who I think is really has excEllent from an engineering standpoint and and really a very fair critic um you put up us for like the battery and piece by .

piece told you why you suck and then he gets a lie and told you why you was .

he took IT apart. He tells us exactly why is why we suck and he was correct um and then and I was like, well, that's prety embarrassing so he was complementary other parts, the part of the body design and uh and so it's like, okay, we need to go from like, you know uh it's be it's just incredibly difficult party to make is made up like one hundred and twenty different pieces with dissemble tals that joined and you got govan corrosion chAllenges difficult to make um to a single piece casting that's one piece so like one hundred twenty pieces went down like one so um it's it's it's a huge and and of the like the model wide body shop, especially a new one where we cast both the front and rare is sixty percent smaller than the all three body shop so it's dragani uh is quite a lot of innovations that tested besides the stuff that is is obvious um so anyway so yeah the really you know to prefer to to to give some like a you know if you if you had a gun to get in his head. Okay um and said we need to build start building the factory calls when you're right now he couldn't do IT because there are so many uh regulatory agencies um and so many a litigators in california that want to stop you from doing anything that even if you're the governor of of the state you cannot get IT done um so is something got to be done to to to to because california used to be the land of opportunity and it's a beautiful state and I love I love loving there. I still spend a lot of time in california, even the every time I go there, I get the every literally every day I O there.

I get the text here.

a cosplay of me go and working out for your days bogues. My and I still do IT you know um but but the camp is going to land opportunity to to the land of of of sort of taxes uh over regulation and litigation and this is not a good situation and really just gotta be like as a serious cleaning out of the pikes in california.

How many months was IT to get the bigger Austin done? Take a year and a half. Two year.

Yeah eight, eighteen wants to build something three times .

the size of government. And you just basically the answer to how many months would .

still be working on the permit? Yeah you expect .

a good question.

which like i'm literally .

we have paperwork.

have one more four for .

you model what's a .

Better model for government? So you know like all governments tend to increase in complexity data capacity is dedicator ship the right model? And you like how do we solve this to you, go to mars? Or let's say, you have to fix california.

California permanently broken. Is there a way to fix IT? Or like how do you set up a Better model so that you don't end up having this this kind of special interest complexity situation eventually kills the population. I want to think .

ultimately be with california. The people of california just have to get fed up and and demand change. Um that's the thing that really has to happen. Um and and and this got to be an above zero percent chance of of the republicans winning in california if it's just a did to embrace every time economy and this this is like occasionally IT the thing is that right right now, uh plus the level level, level of Jerry Mandarin, uh which is basically just a treat the people like sheep uh and uh is is terrible um that's gone on in california outrageous so california the dams have a supermajority in in um the house and said in california and the government or everything and so how responsive is any political party going to beat the people if they are uh guarantee to win it's rate is a one party state and so uh, i'm not saying that you know sort of elected republicans every time but if it's never you, you're just making health on your one party state. They will no longer be responsive to people and will only be responsive to those that funded the .

political campaigners. Clip you on saying that .

dirty seconds on T.

V, over over head sex. Yeah, so you on shifting girls to the economy. Um we saw this surprise report of negative one point four percent GDP q one. Interest span rising that increase the cost of consumer of getting loans, things like that.

We've had a stock market correction, really a crash in lot of gross cks off our stocks from where you said in the data that you see, where do you think the economy is, is headed right now? Do you think we're inner a session or is a the rest of how do how do you assess our current economic situation? Well, predicting economic reeking omy also is difficult. And and one of the side probably these things um but ironically, I did last year you will asked me what I think about the economy said of all I think we might into a session and approximate uh uh spring .

of two thousand of twenty .

twenty two all they 没有 um yeah um so uh I know the thing is that recessions are not necessary a bad thing uh they they you know um what i've now been through a few of them。 And what what has happen is if if you have um uh a boom that goes on for too long, you get musical tion of capital. Uh IT shots raining money aren't fools basically it's like any any dumb thing gets money and i'm sure you've seen a few of those. Um so at somebody is just out of control and you just have a misallocation of of human capital, uh, where people are doing things that are silly and are not useful to their fellow human beings um and and then those company that needs to be sort of an economic animal, if you will, um have everyone sort of shift and company and um 都 but really sorry， it's just visualized IT the economic animal. I mean listen, it's got a this two shell .

pass eventually .

the economic job IT clears out the pipes, if you are yes. And sort of the the of companies um uh go bankrupt and the ones that are doing useful products as our process um and but but this certainly a lesson here that if one is making useful park and and and has a company that makes sense, uh make sure you're not running things too close to the edge from a capital standpoint.

The rest some capable reserves to uh last through uh national times because in in the past when it's been a recession, um IT is gone. amazing. A flip like a light switch. I mean David do remember this went from from the paypal T X paye days when we uh raised one hundred million dollars in march of two thousand and and and we specially we had the demand is so high, we had a people like bcs like just literally without even a term sheet wiring money into our count on the .

term sheet later would like .

like smooth out our our bank counter and wire money in and where does come from and it's like old um they so IT was like the virtually firehouses money in march of two thousand and and then in April two thousand, the mocking went into free fall and IT went from money raising money was trivial to even good companies could not raise money uh in a month um so IT is important very mind like that you know paper almost went backward in in two thousand we came close um but for thankful we would raise that that harder many doors in march two thousand um without which we would be a game over basically um and and we kind of sort coming so it's like we got that the x confined merger done in like three weeks and one hundred thousand dollars because we all like, oh how is we see this coming to an end pretty soon and then a month later I was like, did you know a nightmare basically um and and and every so just important make sure if you are healthy company you got some capital get through things um and and and what watch your class and uh if you if if IT is a recession, which IT more likely than not IT is a recession. I think IT is but probably is um then just uh make watch your cash low and and get a casual things you can um so um yeah but I think we probably are the are in a recession and that that recession will get get was um but you know these things pass and then there will be room times again um so will probably be some some tough going for I don't know, a year um maybe maybe twelve, eighteen months is usually um the amount time that takes work for the a correction to to happen um what do you guys .

think yeah David, how do you feel about IT? Yeah and he feels .

like IT started you know what start as a sort out earlier this year um now seems like I mean technical I guess we need two quarters in another broth to in a recession but IT feels like we're in one feels like IT started you know the gross start. The software business is that we investors should the canaries in the coal mine and there's a lot, a lot of dead canaries dead but having .

a hard time breathing yeah.

But it's not just tapping. Wake up .

a little birdy .

stone, got stone for a brief moment and just patted. I'll be fine. So reminds me the, you know, the pet shop sketch, the parrot IT was it's pining this party is pining for the fields you on a lot I ve .

been talked about as we rap here, and you've been incredibly gracious giving us so much time. Thank you for that lot to talk about american exceptionalism over the last couple years waning and maybe this country has seen its best days and we see the work you're doing and other people in this great country you're doing and the debates we're having about the future. And yet china is doing pretty fantastic.

Russian es on the ropes. Um but IT does seem like amErica is still producing some of the greatest companies the world has ever seen, some of the greatest innovations. What are your thoughts on amErica in our future and what we need to keep this country? And in this speaking of hope that you know four of the five of us we're not born here know two of you came from south africa, three of you, three of you came from south african, one of you from from three lanka from three walks through ada via canada.

He came .

through canada too. Yeah, I know IT seems like that's the .

way that is .

a gateway. IT is a gateway. How do we well, i'm my hinting at the answer here, but IT does seem like our immigration policy is absolutely insane.

And maybe we need to keep collecting some of the great individuals that I I get to share the stage with here and yourself. We need to keep bringing great people to this country. Why can we get that in our heads that .

yeah our immigration .

is talent recruit?

No absolutely. I think it's incredible ant that the united like the destination for the world, the best talent. And you can think of this like like like a prosper's team if you want to win the league um and and uh you you know you want the best players in your team.

Um there are obvious ly A A lot of very talent people born in the united states um but if you could add a few cases from uh from uh outside the country to the team, you're gonna win the league um and and here's a thing, those cases actually want to work for your team. They don't want to computer against you, they want to america. And so it's like we have like to fight them off to not be on team america.

That's the crazy thing. And so it's like if you had some cases that that are different string winning and losing, we should be like really recruiting them like you do recruit like a star festival player or foobar player, if that's what you should. We should be doing um active recruiting just like if you're a company wants wants to succeed, you actually recruit the best town and then and that's the way to win and and if if that stops happening and .

stops winning and we have two administrations in a row by an entry m who don't wanna let the greatest minds, the most talented people into these countries absolutely insane like this every day actually .

anyone who who wants to work hard and be and do useful things um and in this you know uh we we want in the next states um and and it's not just people who are sort of intellectually strong, but it's just anyone with with a strong work ethic. You know if if they're coming from mexico or if they're coming from you know europe, china, whatever, it's just if if they're like going to coming here and cronic hard and and and contribute more than they take hell. Yeah I mean, desist is no brainer.

Have you been have you been disappointed in the similarities between by and trump on this? Like maybe you could have expected IT from trump c because that was a rather c he needed to use to get elected but is not as if biden has flipped the script and said, okay, we're going to hundred native degrees in the other direction. This kind of kept the same, which has been really surprising. actually.

This is hard to tell. What about is during fertile, Frank? Like feel like we can.

And bernies, the real president is whoever controls the telephone. You know, it's like it's like the past of power is the past the telephone? You know, because that that is really the telephone. So you and I do feel like if if somebody would accidentally lead on the lean on telegram, it's going to like acra, it's going to be Q, S, D, F, one, two, three. I mean.

in fairness to bite.

and he .

hasn't been napping as much as he needs to.

but it's hard to be getting done you know I mean this is administration doesn't seem to get a lot done like and you know um whatever like the the two ministration leaving trave aside, I there were a lot of people in the administration who were effective of getting things done. So uh this this administration seems just just do not have like the drive to just get you had done h that that um that that's my is that my impression um so um know we definitely need to fix immigration policy like we had covered, which was an issue and and so that was like one reasons like not know I guess down IT on but now that now we moved on and so let's let us make sure we're getting top town at in the united states um and really I say broadly it's anyone who who wants to work off um and and uh and contribute more than they take to the economy like that's just necessarily gonna make for a stronger, Better society you .

know did you see uh uh basis is tweet back and forth with biden um where biden I think was talking about inflation inflation but then he correlated that detoxing corporations and baza said this is misinformation and disinformation and said what what do you think about that whole exchange them back .

and forth I mean the the obvious reason for inflation is that the government printed a zoan amount more money than IT had uh obviously um so it's like the government can just uh uh you know have um issue checks far in excess of revenue without their being inflation um vast money held constant so unless the something would change was vast money but but but IT just fertile government writes checks they don't they never that is a factory creation of more of more dollars and if if there are more dollars created then the increase in the goods and services after the economy then you have inflation again bluster money held constant um but so um this is this is very basic h this is not like.

Uh you know super complicated um and if if a ga could just issue uh mash amount money and have and deficit didn't matter then what why not we just make the deficit a hundred times bigger okay the answers can't because that I could basically turn the dollar into is something that is worthless. So um and and various countries have have tried this experiment multiple times is not like, oh, I wonder what happens if this if this is one. Have you seen venezia?

A like the poor people of venezuela IT have been just run rush shot by the government um and so the obviously you can't simply create money. The true economy is important that the true economy is the output of gods and services. It's not money.

It's it's literally what is the output goods and services. Money is simply a way to to first took or or anything that you call money. A is is a way for us to conveniently exchange because and services without having to engage border and also to shift obligations in time, that those are the two reasons that you have money. This thing of money, it's it's really it's a database money is is an information system for uh for labor location and for exchange of cause and services and for translating in time um and the quality of that information is a function of is like basically can apply information theory to money and and I think that helps explain why one money system is why one action is bad than another. And so if like you you you just just like a an internet connection, you'd want something as high band with uh low latency gender and uh is not dropped packet, does not have a lot of errors in the system um and the same is true true of money um you you you want and really like you. What what do paypal really, really do that help improve be be the bad words that the speed at which money could move um instead of mAiling checks back and forth which amazingly that was what people did uh in two thousand um uh you you can not do a real time exchange of of money um and and now you could shoot your goods immediately as that of mAiling a check and waiting for the the bag to clear the check so uh like and and the ultimate thing that was paypal or or if I was in the X I com sort more less sort of payments, more broad financial, would be simply mediate all the head possible database out there running on main frames, doing bad processing and have a single real time system that um that we're secure um and not best passing um and so IT would just be from information standpoint more efficient and eventually IT would only the bash processing cobble mainframes Operate by .

the banks with you have spent more time and built more in china than almost anybody. I mean, apple would be the only company could think of that's probably got a bigger for rent, but i'm not certain of that.

What if you learned about china that you didn't know before you open the factories there and started delivering ing cars there? And what should we know about china? You as americans, how how should we think about china, our relationship with IT? Because we haven't spent time there.

sure. What say like china first was not monody is not like, uh everything is not some plot by the chinese government um uh the the the there are many of factions within china that compete uh bigger ly within china and so um and press most important is that there just A A just a tremens number of hardworking, smart people in china who want to get ahead and get things done um and they're not complacent.

They're not entitled um and they're going they want to get things done and they want to make a Better life themselves um and what we're going to see was trying to h for the first time that anyone can remember who is alive is an economy that is twice to size the U. S, possibly three times to size the U. S.

Is going to be very weird living in that world. So uh, we Better stop the infighting in the U. S, and stop punching ourselves in the face.

There's like there's a hope there is way too much, uh, you of amErica punching itself in the face which just dumb and and and think about like, k, we're got to be competitive here and and uh there's A U K on the block can be two three times our size. We we Better step up our game um and um you know and stop in fighting. Um I think .

it's easier to stop in fighting once we're beaten. Or do you think that there's a way folks here can actually just, you know, get their political and commercial act together, but or does IT not happen until we've realized we've lost?

Or do we need a war?

I I mean we sure hope we don't need a war. Um they will be certainly um you know an an economic competition that I think will will blow people away. Um and when they realize just how competitive they have to be to be competitive with companies in china, it's very difficult. Um you tell is competitive. Your tell is competitive because we have an an awesome team in china that uh you know so um like dear tesla.

china employees work some meaningful percentage more or harder than your tesla non china employees define like it's two different .

companies basically. Well, I mean, I I think tesla is someone IT tells us sort of pretty far out there in terms of work etic uh anywhere in the world. So uh that tells the work etic in the U S I think is really greater than any other car company or or any large manufacturing company that i'm aware of.

Um so you know tesla, tesla does have A A strong worth work ethic in in the U S. To totally Frank IT IT IT, the work at work I think is exceeded um uh on baLance by a tesla trinity team that that is I think objectively true. So there's not say that aren't a lots of hard working people that tells the us that told me are um but you say on average the the the work I think in .

china is higher .

is just tell us so what about .

if you're in american CEO, how do you deal with you think just uh, need for managing all these political factions inside of a company. You probably saw all the german dung related to disney and what happened to them and what's continuing to happen to them on build sides between them loye as well as the government as a um you have any advice or what do you tell like Young CEO that you paying out with about how to deal with that, how to make those decisions where you land in the spectrum of dealing with all of this stuff, the non work issues that are related to now, you know going to .

work everyday much very entirely or what you mean.

like all the whether it's the the need for political correctness or the need for having political points of view and having to bring that and baLance that in the workplace, how do you deal with that? How do you give advice about the folks about having to deal with that?

Look, I think you know the the the point of a company is to produce useful products and services for your fellow human beings. IT is not uh you know some political gathering place or a thing where IT that's the point of the company like i'd say, like it's your politics should.

It's not the sight of why company should exist. So I got I got i'm actually late for more on the rocket guys. Yeah, we're.

Going to go head to let you get to mars and i'll see you soon.

your.

World, man.

We open sources to the fans and just got crazy with.

We should all just get a room.

just have one big huge org.

because they just like .

like sexual attention.

But we just need .

to 没想到 what your B， B, your be good.

We get marking.

努力， 努力。