We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode E71: Russia/Ukraine deep dive: escalation, risk factors, financial fallout, exit ramps and more

E71: Russia/Ukraine deep dive: escalation, risk factors, financial fallout, exit ramps and more

2022/3/5
logo of podcast All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

AI Deep Dive AI Chapters Transcript
People
C
Chamath Palihapitiya
以深刻的投资见解和社会资本主义理念而闻名的风险投资家和企业家。
D
David Sacks
一位在房地产法和技术政策领域都有影响力的律师和学者。
J
Jason Calacanis
一位多才多艺的美国互联网企业家、天使投资人和播客主持人,投资过多家知名初创公司,并主持多个影响广泛的播客节目。
Topics
David Sacks: 本周讨论的焦点是俄罗斯入侵乌克兰。战争局势非常不稳定,可能的结果多种多样,从俄罗斯迅速获胜到长期冲突甚至莫斯科发生政变都有可能。他认为北约不设立禁飞区是明智之举,因为这意味着与俄罗斯直接开战。他还对北约盟国采取鲁莽行动的可能性表示担忧,这可能导致与俄罗斯的全面战争。他认为关于扎波罗热核电站被袭击的说法可能是虚假信息,旨在升级局势。他还认为,西方国家仓促实施制裁以及缺乏退出战略,对俄罗斯资产的制裁对全球经济产生了严重的负面影响,并且对长期后果缺乏充分考虑。他认为,如果西方国家去年就承诺不扩张北约,可能会避免这场战争。他还认为,布林肯声明北约大门仍然敞开是挑衅性的,这加剧了俄乌冲突。他认为,如果西方国家在战争爆发前就承诺不扩张北约,可能会避免这场战争。他还认为,如果小布什政府采取更具外交手腕的方式,可能会避免这场战争。他认为,西方国家应该避免挑衅俄罗斯,让乌克兰自己决定自己的未来。 Chamath Palihapitiya: 他认为,我们正处于一场新型战争中,这场战争的核心是经济战。这场经济战代表了一种新型的战争模式,它可能成为未来战争的主要形式。他对西方国家仓促实施制裁以及缺乏退出战略表示担忧。他认为,全球央行可能会采取协调行动,以应对制裁造成的经济冲击。他认为,能源价格上涨往往会导致经济衰退。他对当前局势的升级以及缺乏明确目标表示担忧。他想知道如果继续对俄罗斯实施制裁,普京的出路是什么。从西方国家的角度来看,对俄罗斯的最终目标是政权更迭。如果俄罗斯民众支持普京,那么政权更迭将非常困难。俄乌冲突可能的结局有三种:乌克兰成功自卫、俄罗斯完全胜利以及双方达成和平协议。为了和平解决冲突,需要为普京提供一个体面的退路。他认为,如果西方国家承诺在未来十年内不接纳乌克兰加入北约,这可能会为普京提供一个体面的退路。他认为,这场冲突促使世界各国认识到摆脱对专制政权的能源依赖的重要性。他认为,如果实施得当,经济制裁可能是有效的。为了找到解决俄乌冲突的办法,我们需要明确我们的目标。他反对以政权更迭为目标,因为他认为这会导致灾难性的后果。他认为,普京低估了泽连斯基和西方的决心。关于俄乌冲突的信息存在大量宣传和虚假信息。他认为,西方国家可能高估了俄罗斯的能力。由于信息的不确定性,很难判断战场上实际发生的情况。 Jason Calacanis: 他认为,这场冲突对新兴市场的影响尤其令人担忧,美国将不得不承担更大的责任来解决这个问题。他认为,这场冲突是前所未有的。世界正在从单极世界向多极世界转变,这使得世界变得更加危险。他认为,普京的决策可能并非完全理性。普京低估了乌克兰和西方的决心,但他本人也具有坚定的决心,并且不害怕使用核武器。对乌克兰的冲突对俄罗斯来说就像古巴导弹危机对美国一样,这是一个关乎国家安全的关键问题。他认为,理解俄罗斯的行为需要同时考虑理想主义和现实主义的视角。他认为,在动荡时期,投资者应该继续投资,投资者应该着眼于长期,而不是短期波动。市场存在周期性波动,投资者应该保持冷静,不要被短期波动所迷惑。美联储主席鲍威尔的证词表明,美联储可能会采取宽松的货币政策。他对西方国家仓促实施制裁以及对长期后果缺乏充分考虑表示担忧。他认为,这场冲突对新兴市场的影响尤其令人担忧,美国将不得不承担更大的责任来解决这个问题。 David Friedberg: 他认为,这场冲突促使世界各国认识到摆脱对专制政权的能源依赖的重要性。他认为,乌克兰的抵抗表明,一个国家可以通过全民皆兵来有效地抵御侵略。如果台湾想要保持独立,就需要全民皆兵,并拥有足够的武器装备。他认为,这场冲突是前所未有的。世界正在从单极世界向多极世界转变,这使得世界变得更加危险。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The episode begins with a discussion on the unexpected resilience of Ukraine against the Russian invasion. The Ukrainian resistance, led by President Zelensky, has galvanized support from the West, leading to a complex geopolitical situation.
  • Ukraine's resistance against Russia was stronger than anticipated.
  • Zelensky's leadership played a crucial role in uniting Ukraine and garnering international support.
  • The situation remains volatile with high stakes for all parties involved.

Shownotes Transcript

0:00 David Sacks: Man for the people 0:50 Escalating tensions over Russia/Ukraine; nuclear scare; evolving forms of warfare

16:27 Assessing impact of economic sanctions: first, second and third-order effects; exit ramps for Putin and Russia

34:23 Reflecting on if taking NATO expansion off the table would have prevented war; Putin's risk of ruin; lessons learned so far

46:12 New version of economic warfare; possibility of a regime change; comparisons to the Cuban Missile Crisis; realist vs. idealist; lessons for Taiwan

1:05:22 Market impact, increased volatility, thinking in decades, managing risk

1:19:22 Car T-cell therapy breakthroughs and approvals; CRISPR patent controversy; Sacks makes a final point

Follow the besties:

https://twitter.com/chamath)

https://linktr.ee/calacanis)

https://twitter.com/DavidSacks)

https://twitter.com/friedberg)

Follow the pod:

https://twitter.com/theallinpod)

https://linktr.ee/allinpodcast)

Intro Music Credit:

https://rb.gy/tppkzl)

https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg)

Intro Video Credit:

https://twitter.com/TheZachEffect)

Referenced in the show:

https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1499535843207389186)

https://www.onmanorama.com/news/world/2022/03/04/garry-kasparov-former-world-chess-champion-attacks-russian-president-vladimir-putin-ukraine-invasion-twitter.html)

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1574056/world-war-3-russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-fiona-hill-us-national-security-council)

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/nato-meets-ukraine-calls-no-fly-zone-hinder-russia-2022-03-04)

https://twitter.com/TimothyDSnyder/status/1499587642115117059)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/opinion/ukraine-russia-war-zelensky.html)

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/LUKOY:OTCMKTS)

https://oec.world/en/profile/hs92/wheat)

https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1498873063378612227)

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1499574209567199235)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/04/world/europe/lindsey-graham-putin-russia.html)

https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1499385705591709698)

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-russia-germany-still-blocking-arms-supplies/)

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-hike-defense-spending-scholz-says-further-policy-shift-2022-02-27/)

https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/germany-aims-get-100-energy-renewable-sources-by-2035-2022-02-28/)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/28/world/europe/switzerland-russian-assets-freeze.html)

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/02/28/sweden-arms-ukraine/)

https://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/04-april/e0403h.html)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/biography-george-h-w-bush-slams-iron-ass-cheney-rumsfeld-n457911)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4)

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=RU)

https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/1499386637066727424)

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-wests-green-delusions-empowered?s=r)

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084580235/russia-blocks-facebook-twitter)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/technology/ukraine-war-misinfo.html)

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1497834538843660291)

https://www.indiatoday.in/fact-check/story/fact-check-russia-ukraine-war-old-woman-not-giving-invading-russian-soldiers-the-finger-1920479-2022-03-04)

https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1496998762496946203)

https://twitter.com/morganhousel/status/1499484089082007552)

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/euro-pinned-war-stokes-stagflation-fears-2022-03-03/)

https://twitter.com/zekejmiller/status/1499739582115553281)

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/wheat-corn-prices-surge-amid-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/2774260/)

https://www.myelomacrowd.org/janssen-s-cilta-cel-car-t-receives-fda-approval-for-relapsed-multiple-myeloma/)

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/fda-approves-jjs-cell-based-multiple-myeloma-therapy-blood-cancer-treatment-wsj-2022-03-01/)

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/research/a2-bios-activator-blocker-car-t-cell-therapies-show-early-promise-solid-cancers)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/crispr-patent-gene-editing-dispute-11646187911)

https://twitter.com/MZHemingway/status/1499588624664657926)