New SEC Chair, Bitcoin, xAI Supercomputer, UnitedHealth CEO murder, with Gavin Baker & Joe Lonsdale
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Hey, everybody here, everybody, before we drop this weeks amazing episode, just some quick information for you. Sacks and trim both had the week off, so we had two amazing friends of the part on Gavin Baker from a trees. Angel, Angel from eight VC. What a tree to have them on the program. But there is some big news.

how freebody yeah, well, the news dropped after we record IT, so it's not gona be reference and the show might feel little stale. But here we get our friend David sax is the White house A I encrypt zz r of the united states of america. Congratulations to our boy super.

That is a big reason why he was unable to join us for the show he was in, get this news ramped up. Yeah, he came out. We've already recorded.

Yeah, take that into your account as we go to the show. yes. And according to trust truth social post maxwell quote guide policy for the administration in artificial intelligence encysted currency, he will also lead the presidential council of advisors for and technology of how great is that free? wow.

Science corner in the White house can't wait, be found the amazing and but I have .

no announcements of the rumors about me becoming press secretary or obviously premature. But if has to serve, I will serve my country. Okay, let's get to IT.

Don't worry. Best is all in isn't going anywhere. We will be here every week for you, exact maybe thanksgiving or a holiday. Now in to get right, let's start to show every bag. Great episode.

Let's go.

All in everybody. Welcome to the all in pocket. I am your host, Jason calico. Are you doing free? Berg.

i'm having in there. I'm waiting for the tsunami have it's gonna. We're about forty minutes away. I'm a little anxious right now.

more anxious than Normal. That is what you're saying like on a scale of one to freeburg. This is like as anxious as you get with the sunni.

I don't know what's going to happen. This current warning shows a five foot watery ze um or five meter. I can't tell god, I really hope we don't publish this episode is like a total disaster .

that what we're we get warnings once a while. Just to give everybody a little perspective here, I met David's access house. I've taken over, as you can say, about my mom, Clair, head on freeway.

I found saxes robe this year. There was sexy, but I got a red sharpie and just prospect down and would jack out on IT. And then I went down and I was talking to chef.

the sex know that you're staying in his house.

He knows i'm staying here, but does he know? He doesn't know that I found actual happy.

We man different.

We have sources to the .

fans and got. With us today to moh couldn't make IT this week .

and mother surgery and now he looks like Gavin.

Okay, yes.

And sax is .

taking a day off. He's got the day off today and this is winning too much with us to substitutes jump in here for the team. Cackling you can hear, uh, the cackling joe lang dam. There is Jones.

i'll know.

is to the right of David taxi as a venture capitalist. And he started a couple of companies you might heard of them are in teer. And what are the other greatest tents .

at apart at a just cross seven trillion dollars as reported on IT this month to give real company too ah the alpa v so this year the unch .

great good yeah um joe uh gets he said you're a little bit lower profile then are all these accomplishments is pretty incredible cofounded. How many billion dollar ies have you go found?

I don't know. Maybe six or so.

Six or so. Uh, also with us gaven big from the treats. He is a hedge fund manager.

He does private. He does public. One of smart guys I know, great analysts. Welcome to the program. Gab in friend of the boat.

Thank you, jack. Well, have to be here. Great to see everybody.

Yeah, we are experiencing a huge trump bump. The election is over. The cabinet is being assembled.

And we're seeing doge the apartment of government efficiency as well as maybe regulations being pulled down. And and we will get to our first topic about our new esc chair. But just generally speaking, event as a market participant for a living. What you take on what we've seen over the last three weeks since the election.

a results came in. So if they have execute unstated plans and there are some of the worlds greatest execution machines involved, um you know you generally does what he says he is going to do. 好。 Like this is going to be awesome for america, for markets, for the world.

And the analogy I keep coming back to is such a nadella taking over A C E O of microsoft. Microsoft was is a monopoly, incredibly advantaged. IT has just been horribly mismanaged for years.

All he had to do to start winning was stop doing really, really dumb things. And that's an incredible place to be. You know, america, like we're the greatest country now we've got, you know, oceans on two side is peaceful neighbors, incredible natural resources.

You know completely, you know, can produce our our, our own food and energy, like in many ways most privileged country on earth. But sometimes with great privilege comes great, like stupidity. And california, to me, would be a leading example of that many ways most privileged state in amErica and a predit away with bad policies.

And I do think one thing that everyone of all political stripes agrees on is there too many regulations that result in far too many administrators, far too much complexity in an inability to build things in america. So, you know, is used very effectively. And as I should have been against the area administration that they approve forty two billion dollars for role broadband, had built a anything, had approved forty billion doors for E V charges, whatever IT was, had done anything.

And in fact, they didn't want to, you know, dig trenches and do about that. And they didn't want to make T V charges. Their own regulations prevented them. So I just think deregulation and simplifying regulations and and the tax code is going till the to an administer ut of growth, which is something that all americans should be happy about.

So you, anna, maybe give us your take. I know obviously you are very vocal. You're obviously conservative or on think tank and have strong feelings on all this.

But there is consensus having amongst all americans that we don't like fraud, waste, abuse in those items. Those seem to be consensus, building efficiency and paying lower taxes. All of that seems like something almost all americans, most americans can get behind. So I guess, maybe a little bit of your take on what we've seen in the markets and the plan and then also you going to be involved this at all.

Well, listen, jack.

I think I do agree. I think almost all reasonable americans can see that our growth is ridiculously constrained IT. I think jeff vessels was saying yesterday, like we need a growth oriented by inset if we're gonna out of our debt problems, our deficit problems.

So it's licensee everyone of coming on the team and saying, yeah, we need to fix these things. I think what people don't understand is like just how broken the government crocs regulations are, right? It's not like they're kind of sort of bad, like it's almost like their companies, they went bankrupt.

Think of the worst company, you know when they will come out. They went bankrupt like thirty years ago. And imagine if so, I just like kept ed pumping money into that worst company you know over like thirty years to keep harding people.

So like yahoo or A O L, like some legacy company was .

feeling and take the worst apartment there. And then like the worst apartment gets the most money. So it's like it's more I think you can use that.

We're retard now. It's more retarded than anything you've seen in a lot on the time. And I think one of the important thing is amErica used to have the really a hard tests for one hundred years.

You know this in one hundred and eighty three, we said, you know what? We shouldn't just hire our friends if someone is going to run something in the government. Let's have these tough test. China, china is for thousands of years and and and for one hundred years we have really a hard test.

If you we watch the moon when we fought the world wars, you know, we did the in hat project to people making those decisions in hiring people had to pass things that really only like five, seven people can pass. You took. And then in the late seventies, we said, not only are these test racists so we can test people anymore of any background, we also can't fire people anymore because you're going to give tons of protections.

So so in the last forty years, he just got dummer. And then ten years ago, you started doing all the virtues, staying and you know, hiring based on your identity verses based on anything else. So so it's getting worse.

And so now it's so broken, the, yes, with letting tens of gars on fire. And so it's the really two things are one, you've got take a chain saw, as you like I said, you ve got take a chain. So just like cut a tne broke up and stuff.

But then day two is you guys say, how do we make this not stupid in the future? And there's things like maybe you bring back test, maybe you bring accountability. Think I the thing I most passion about is, you know, right now there is over a million rules of the federal level.

It's stuff that everyone disagrees. And you give me the most left person trying to build, like solar or winter, whatever you you like, what have to do, what study over how many years? This makes no sense.

So so we got that, we got a we got to take these regulations and not only cut them, but we got make a data drive system that forces regulations to defend themselves in that way. Instead, having a cancer that just grows for around a controller, you could actually have a processes like naturally trims things, inspire himself and that we doesn't get this done over again. I would why .

not just make them automatically sunsetting after five years if they're not renewed exactly.

but make the process to renew them difficult in .

data room exactly like yeah .

exactly you just renewing .

the will take so much time that I will slow IT down.

I wonder where we got to the place freeburg and will bring you in on this stance. really. I think that was maybe two or three years ago. You started to point out exactly the that spiral way to get in and want to give you your flowers here on pod because from this pod and in your obsession uh and you're hearing on and on about this national debt problem, you thought early, you talked about IT constantly. You brought a lot of consensus on board and now we're seeing IT as the issue of the transition is the debt.

And we were sitting here for the past, you are two saying winter politicians going to even pay attention to this, and now they are paying attention to IT. So first, here's your virtual flowers. Second, how are you feeling about the transition today? Well, I mean, I think the first of .

all is like three layers of the problem, which i've been turned to harpen for almost four years. Number one is the inefficiency and lack of accountability, which john govern obviously talking about. And that leads to excessive spending and that leads to the debt problem.

And the dead problem creates this kind of arithmetic dead death spiral, which is um something you don't want to find yourself in. So that's the inevitability that i've been kind of really worried about. And I think that you know, look, there's uh, the first derivation and second derivation.

Can I get addressed? And then hopefully, you don't get to the absolute point where you have this breaking, breaking point. I I think right now, everyone's banking number one on can we deregulate in a way that can unlock route? And by unlike growth, the right the the the kind of arithmetic argument is grow G D P because you're not going to be able to shrink dead superfast.

Uh, in order to grow G D P there, there needs to be some unleashing happening. And so if you can get G, D, P to grow for five percent, and you can minimize the access spending, meaning you can minimize the deficit, federal deficit, and therefore minimize the in the debt level, the debt to GDP ratio becomes more manageable because ultimately can only tax so much of GDP. So yeah, I feel like this is important in both senses.

One is just cut of efficient, wasteful spending, get rid of the regulations, and that all unleash the necessary growth. One of the proxies I looked to, and I I think that this is gonna kind of the critical motivating factor for the united states, whether is this administration or the next. On a continuous spaces, there is gona be this kind of moment where we're gonna look across the water at what china has, and you can see what china is getting, what china is making, what china is doing.

I've talked about this a lot as well, and I do think this is the most critical metric that no one talks about as much as I think we should, which is the increment in electricity production capacity in china compared to the united states. And so we are going from one terrible to two terror watts. They're going for, I think.

two to eight over the same time period. And they are doing at that point who are staring pack IT for the audience. I mean, I obviously understand what this import.

but I want you the number one thing I says is usually correlated to the how well are working class is doing in your country to per capital GDP to cost of goods. I mean, obviously I care about IT. If you want to skill A I for all the things is we're doing and you want to to do IT effectively.

But if you just look over time, it's really clear the relationship between how well is your average working in little class person doing and the quality life, the cost of life and a cost of electricity, cost of power. And it's it's crazy. We're not just like ramping .

up the cutting moral electricity means more automation means more I means more. Things are being done for the for every person that are being done in factories are being done by machines. And that unlocks um a new kind of level of living, and that's been kind of a continuous process for humans. There's this guy that write these books that bill gates always talks about, that smith.

He got all these books on the history of .

the relationship between energy and kind of prosperity. There is .

definitely correlation there, and there is definitely cozy there, Gavin. And there's even like really simple ones. I don't know if you ve ever seen liquor on you from, you know, the founder of singapore essentially talk about just how air conditioning change the country's fade .

raised this average. I like cuba. Two or three points really .

matters out into the at the end of the day, my my key point was we have to make sure that this administration and joke and hear me on this and I know he he believes this. But for me, IT has to be such a priority that we um accelerate a nuclear uh energy rolled out in the united states because that's what china is doing. They have dozens of gene reactors are going to get built out each of.

Has a gig lot of production capacity and they're doing IT in the cost that we can compete with today. But fundamentally, they can do IT in the U. S. We can even do IT and regulations that goes back to prohibits our ability to actually expand energy capacity or electricity production capacity, which is a critical difference.

And that ultimately leads to a situation in ten years, we're going to be looking across the water at, you know, a competitive country that has three x 4XD electricity production capacity of our country。 And everything is cheaper, everything is faster. IT gives them superiority and a lot of functions that we can.

This this is a national security thing too, because we need manufacturing here to be affordable and competitive in order to for national security. You don't give when you text to me last minute to join this. I was actually the meaning with our friends from founder because building nuclear fuel again for the first time in the U.

S. That's actually my way too. And so so that needs to be approved. I know Chris, right, is a omy for the new no energy, a sector of energy. And he know he's super pro liberty guy, but super pro cheap, cheap energy guy is prony clear. So I think we have some really great people who care about this.

going to be fight hard for .

energy in the blockers.

I mean, more nuclear, more Better like I mean, I I agree with everything, just sad. And no one thing I just said is IT is the most environmentally friendly kind of energy source in some way that even more I think IT is highly likely that in my lifetime the world just runs on solar. Like if you just, you know, we all know, compound into is the greatest force on earth.

But if you just look at the rate at which foot will take efficency compounding, battery efficiency is compounding. And people make these family of system arguments, but IT IT IT will IT will never be as cheaper nuclear, but IT will likely approach coal. And I hit a lot of the world will run on solar, but that's gonna fifty years um nuclear is arguably just as envionmental ally friendly didn't right carefully and IT is here now until I just yeah I mean.

yeah I know I IT is unbelievable to watch not exactly more law, but this precipitate ves drop in the cost of just solar panels.

So very impressive. But in some ways me little it's .

great limit and you you have to have many, many acres rolled out. And with nuclear, you can have a building that you power .

the equivalent of many acres, about the tiny fraction of, you know, deserted desert area of america. Bet with put batteries.

There are still a space limiting like this, just fast for a hundred years on planet earth. And if you look at the past hundred years and the hundred years before that, like energy demand, uh, even on a on a per capital basis, has this non linear kind of scaling problem. And that means that land consumption will scale non linearly.

Now we have, if I can say, hundred years, though I an three hundred years technology changes is very from space if you really want to do y but probably could have like one of these in space. I mean hundred years as far.

I mean we have we have enough uranium and just the cross of the, you know like northern hemisphere to in other world power to power everything we can imagine.

unlimited energy for all time. Just to wrap this up out of home with a bunch of midds who have put so much regular ation in place and who are working from home for four hours a week, if we can just get them out of the way, then maybe we could approve some nuclear reaction.

Government workers blocking .

if you're not and you're working fifty hours. So we got a lot .

of people working hard in the government.

That's exactly my point. But there are some number of them who are just obviously do not see the forest through the trees.

investing texas, the number of in the country. And it's not because everybody there is more envionmental ally conscious. No, we're not 的 意思。 It's just it's easy to build stuff of texas to build solar powerless.

This is I mean for the lives in cities who are so pro solar and anti natural gas or whatever. Yeah look at taxes. They're just build as much as you want.

And we're joe and I live in Austin. Home Prices have gone down two years in a row. Rent has gone down two years in a row. They are building like lunch s because you don't need to beg and and bribe people to build that. Show me some thoughts on what we've seen in regulation in our .

city councils. Not perfect. Astana called the blue ry in the tomato soup. So there may be a time a bit of beg in going on, but despite that, you're able to build there and everywhere else around you're building like bad.

So IT works. There's plenty of supply angry. Speaking of regulation, gary gencer lor is out, paul.

Actions is in the this is all obviously related. Actions was previously sc commissioner under bush two in the early two thousands. In the nineties, he worked for both bush win clinton at the S.

C. cording. To the new york times, actions is admired among dc legal circles and regulators he co cropped up and he's been helping draft some best practices for the crypto to trading platforms.

As you know, gary, against the this approach, the crypto was there's a rule set. Follow the rule set. We're not here to change the rules. We're here to enforce them. Good luck. And in some cases, I think maybe he was right with icc hosen a bunch of scams, but he also gave good actors no to go forward. Anybody have strong feelings on this?

I ve yeah vero times of conferences and groups and he's really smart guy, cares about the rules, cares about helping innovators. And the thing that really pissed off everyone off in the gary and I love you probably seen like I think I think I I think both coin base with brian and the winter of OSS wins that put something out. They won't even to hire anyone who worked with curry and this stuff they were doing. And in the reason they were that angry at them is they were purpose sly not to finding the rules in certain cases and then going in after people uh after not having to find IT in in order to kind play gotcha again .

that was very in able. And paul, this might change regulations in our business. Also the fund business, joe, is eventual capital evc. You're in public markets and funds how I do proceed.

So ah what do you think in terms of funds and regulations there and then crypt to and the c may be becoming innovative as opposed to punish. And you know what's the word for freeze? What's the word i'm looking for here? adversarial?

Well, they are a regulator.

They are a regulator, but they don't also seem they seem to have gone beyond just regulating. They seem to have been the agressively adverse. I mean, there are .

regulatory oran enforcement agency. That's their job. So I don't know.

like have you but not giving a path or not even meeting with people, I think that was a thing that I felt was kind of weird.

You are a big doctor to the left. They would meet with you otherwise. That was part of sketchy. That was why the africa s means brand, means I. Do you .

think currencies at some level fundamentally reduced the power of nation states and that is something that is off by the true believer? S but IT is true. And so if you um are on the left in, you know you are a develop believer in the power of the state to do good things.

I get why you not like cyp to currencies. You know the same time we're very early in cyp tou. I do think I read with interest all of the post of David, mark and his peers that libra made a made about what happened to them.

Libra was a facebook project to embrace crypto currency at a very intrinsic level onto the sort of identity level of every one of their billions of users.

And I think you could argue that would have been really, really good for natural america. But the entire world, yeah, you know there are a lot of immigrants in amErica in amErica who send remissions back to their home countries at extremely high tats, predatory rates IT would have made that free and that would have been amazing for a lot of really hard working um people all over the world.

IT would have you know recent mastercard, they do charge big fees. I mean vies of mastercard do not charge big fees, but the credit card complex and agreed is a reason. Big feet, I mean everybody just you know two two and five percent to make IT you know perfect and safe.

Um I think facebook had a sound argument. They could have done that cheaper. That would have been an efficiency game for america. And I really did bummed out, you know, to read some of the letters that they sent the way they killed libra, if anyone doesn't know, and maybe we could, you can pop even market this post. They just all these politicians sent letters to participants and financial markets say we don't know if they're doing anything wrong, but we think they probably are. And we're onna, look at this very closely and we want to discourage you from participating IT worse.

IT was worse than that. I was like a mafia letter. IT was like, if you are to support this and help with this, we are going to look at to everything else you are doing, and we may then find some issues.

IT was, IT was like a mafia threat. We can stop you legally. But watch out like that.

There was really sketchy, was sure a Brown who who now is out of office, that who let this, the sender from ohio. But I was really bad. IT was really bad.

What they're doing, IT was really bad.

I thought IT upsetting has an american and it's you. You couldn't hint IT at this garden. The fear of governments is that they will lose control of money supply and monetary policy. Maybe unpacked that a bit and then fiber will go to you on the same sort .

of thread yeah I look at a IT is a rational fear I mean controlling monetary supply like at some level of the greatest you know powers we give the state are a monopoly environs to keep us safe um and you know control over the money supply has you know means of exchange unit of account um and those are great powers, particularly in amErica and your reserve currency not think that I would just say baLances out um and I do think people are are very positive ve on paul actions I ve never met him but the reaction from people who know him like joe and who are respect has been very positive.

Is important to remember we have the best capital markets in the world, you know the U. S. Equity and fixed link of markets. Are the most trusted places on earth and we can always make them Better. But just IT is very know you want to be very vigilant about keeping them fair and keeping out things like insight information, which makes people feel comfortable doing business here, you know, making, you know, having investors have confidence in the companies of financial statements and those financial markets are one reason amErica is such a great country.

Gavin, to put this in context, this was drawn a time period, this David markets libra process when they felt certain people in government, i'm not saying I endorses, but this is their position. Z berg had too much power. Zaka berg was censoring people.

The right felt they were being censored. The left felt that cambodia galatia and people were using targeting university. The general vibe, and even j advances kind of was in on this as well, was too much power specifically that matter, too much influence.

Now they've got this many people, this penetration and the algorithm plus we going to give them money and they're na have power over people's wallet. And then what does the government have? They can't sensor people, they can control the message and they can control the pursuing that that is the time period we're talking me about here.

I don't know I I just one hundred percent why they did IT yeah just think he's an american at a minimal the way that they did IT yeah to know, use one of those phrase, disagree able. You know, if if you want to say that we're going to kill this, then just like let's have a debate. Has a nation absolutely don't do in the shadows? Yes, role is also another reason. AmErica is a great country. yes.

Freeburg your thoughts on dave. Marketers are comments and in this S, C, C pic and just generally a more try, less regulation kind of situation.

I think the S C, C is like one of the most important agencies we have, and I think they're one of the best federal agencies. So i've work with them and I work with any other agencies and there's all these issues of the S C. C.

They play a very important job. And and if you've worked in the foreign markets and you've dealt with foreign securities regulators, you're going na be like bank dod. You see you like can't wait to go back. If this whole crypto thing I there's there's a distinction, I think, between bitcoin and gypt to currencies as speculative kind of asset speculative train.

What do you see those difference success?

Well, I I definitely concur with Gavin. I think bitcoin fundamentally is meant to be supposed to be ultimately will become a real threats to the U. S. dollar. And it's kind of ironic that from had this declaration this week, yeah, that he's gna put one hundred percent tariff on all these bricks nations that tried to participate in an alternative currency to the U. S.

Dollar, the greatest currency on earth, when he literally turns around and then says, we're onna support bitcoin, IT felt like the biggest irony of the week to me, because I do think bitcoin is the big threat to the U. S. dollar.

And I do think that at some point, whether it's this administration or the next, they're going to wake up to that fact. And maybe the the bit point does know the network's state concept does emerging. That's where we end up.

But I do think we want to have and are going to have a strong federal government in the united states for quite some time. That's gonna ay an important role in everyone's lives here. And I know if you can really just say, let the dollar, you know be so planted by bitcoin.

Bitcoin seems to be a more of a safe haven asset and that seems to be the trade that it's story be kind of their value and alternative. It's just going to take over gold. What do you .

think the state has reasonable concerns of a crypt o competing with IT? And then maybe specifically, when you start from talking about, hey, congratulations on your bitcoin. I did this for you.

One hundred take create for IT at the state, which he should take create for IT. He did that. He did that less forty thousand dollars per coin um and then you see him talking about the bricks.

And then we have the U. S. Currency, so which is a bigger threat to american, a exceptionalism and supremacy on planet earth, bitcoin or bricks.

So one represents a move tours liberty, and one represents a move tours authorities. If bricks were to become dominant, if china and russia were able to control global currency together and in other players, that is terrible. It's bad for the U.

S. For so many reasons about few consumer, for so many reasons. He's right to fight IT at the same time having you to channel logy having this like pro liberty network stay like like forces in that direction.

Like for example, I think rather than just long kong and singapore hongkong s than lost, we should have like more honey in singapore as in the west, to compete with the U. S. That be good for all of us.

The pro freedom side of the U. S. To make the U. S.

Wealth are we have show examples of of new experiments to create, create wealth. And then that kind of decided a bit point. You want more experiments, competition from the liberty distributed side. You don't want competition for the thornton arian size if to me you is very consistent yeah.

I would just say texas is the center of america. You know that is putting pressure on the rest of america. And I don't say that just because I grew up in texas um it's just effect.

I do think long term bitcoin, I do not think the bricks will ever be able to replace the dollar. This rule of law, even if IT is occasions been corrupted in america, is very, very powerful, yes, as opposed the role billah. And but I do think bitcoin will at some point be a serious threat to the U.

S. dollar. And that just is what IT is. And we will see how different administrations react.

It's a check.

It's a check on the most aggressive mistakes. First of all, the debt is doesn't get into control. Our deficit is ridiculous. The coin is a wonderful check on that.

You actually want healthy competition from something good because you want to check the access is crazy as you want still coming from the outside to say no, don't do that. Let's say it's some point in A O C, like person gets in charge. This could happen in next twenty years. You need some kind of check on the dollar. And it's much Better to come from the liberty side than from the other side.

I read all that I will to say on A O C. I thought I was very interesting. I think if you're democrat, I think you're probably largely harmed by the kind of intellectual leaders of that party they're reaction to losing.

You know, it's focused on, hey, we do need to do regulate that is too hard to build, josh, a period between every three days about how these making IT easier. You know to do business in pennsylvania, you to take twenty days to become get a hair bath license that takes an hour. All that is good um but actually thought A O C who is a very talented politician, he is an extraordinary communicators.

Extradite communicator currer tion was like instagram. If you voted for trump, I want to hear why. I want to hear the things you listen to that convinced you like I don't say this out of anything other than genuine curiosity, basically. Clearly I am missing something and I I want to listen. And I just thought that was a very interesting reaction.

That is the proper reaction. absolutely. yes. I went to point out one thing.

I A, I was doing some research, uh, before the show, and I found this S C. C speech. This is a rarely fascinating. And this is from two thousand and seven from paul. And he was kind of giving his state of the union here. And he's talking about doing himself reflection, and he's talking about a credit issue hole in two thousand and seven before the great financial crisis. The concept of economic question return also affect a different proposal of the commission.

The assist relating to private investment on one specifically part of the commissions proposal would add an additional requirement for any natural a creditor person to have at least two point five million and investments before he or he could invest in private investment in a private investment like edge fund or privately refund other than a venture capital fund. The underlying premise for the commissions proposals that these types investment securities for individuals other than the very rich, therefore, we would have to presume that the non richer, either unsophisticated or lack access, two sophistication and IT, is simply not tolerable to have these types of people at risk of losing their money on a hedged fund. Assuming that these premises are true, hover, what events does the commission have to support the conclusion that a private investment funds are the most risky? What makes a hedge fund or a private aequor fund more risky and venture capital fund? Great question.

And how does the profile of a poled investment compared with the risks of investing insecurity of a single issue for which this new two point five million standard is, this is where is super interesting? Many public comment letters express indignation at the commission's proposal. One commentary route, stay out of my world.

Stop trying to protect me from myself. Stop assuming to know more than I do about my own life with tolerance. And financial ophrys cation commission paro may very well prevent the non rich from losing their money in private investment funds, but IT also certainly will prevent the non rich from participating in any upside, profits and gains on these funds.

Does this mean the rich get richer, while the non rich should be content to just hold their place on the economic latter? This to me, when I saw this, I was like, you know what? I am feeling absolutely fantastic about trump.

If he stops these wars or stops, one attitude keeps us out of the participating. Even there were not on the ground with the other any, the ones. And he removes regulations.

And we have people in power who understand that moving up the social economic latter is as important as protecting the downside risk, especially when we see wealth polarization. This is a great pic. Now the other pigs, there are some White pack picks in there.

I'll be totally honest. I don't know what the strategy is, joe, I ask you about a minute. But what do we think, Gavin, of this sort of approach here, which is really thinking, thought fully about what sophisticated and and what are we doing here, what is the outcome were looking for?

You know, I think it's great. And you can just the reality is a hetch fund that runs with a lot of leverage probably is more risky. I don't know that it's more risky than a single security. But like at the end of the day, sand, he wrote that letter. IT was an incredible fifty year run for private equity.

And you know, now all the big private equity firms are making a huge effort now provide the business is more mature, maybe the return opportunities, what they were to appeal to mainstream amErica like that would have been cool if you know blackstone or take K, R, whoever in all seven, eight, eight, eight or nine, two thousand and ten, you know, could have had their fund up, unlike the finality marketplace for subscription. That probably would have been good for america. So I think his comments are well taken.

Imagine if elon could raise ed for space acts like, you know, from regular americans. I'm sure he would to do that if he wasn't crazy risky with the S. C, C, right? So there's always people just are blocking us from letting average person be part of IT. IT does keep them from climbing well farther. I think it's crazy.

Yeah, a freeborn. Any thoughts here? I mean, this has been my pet pee for a long time. Is letting people do what they want with their money. If you don't allow people to take risk with their money and move up from poor to middle class, from midday class up for middle class, and may be eventually becoming affluent.

J, there's a lot of places people can invest their money. They can buy public stocks there, twenty trillion of public stocks they buy. I you're prohibiting people from transitioning their wealth like bands by not being able to buy private docks.

In fact, I think it's more likely than not that people are going to go market both security in private markets and rip for people off even worse. And that's why there are these regulatory kind of barriers. And I don't think that it's necessary.

Everyone says let's make IT everything free and everything libertarian seems like a good idea. And so someone gets punched in the face, gets ripped off, someone dies from a drug, you know, that's not properly tested. And then we're all like, where are the regulators? Where are the agencies to protect the individuals.

And I think that's the role that these agencies are, are kind of providing, and that's the reason these rules are in place. I don't think that this is like one of these things where our liberties being denied. I think it's you. There's a there's a there's a careful line to yeah.

I think i'm generally .

pretty interesting and most things so I agree with what a lot of David said. And I do think if you were to allow ordinary americans to buy private companies that are held to a lower standard of disclosure reporting, the public companies like something would have to change like, you know just say if if a private company wants to like public companies are know how to stand .

recent the numbers and get financial yeah .

and there is a lot of fraud in venture. There are unethical people. There are.

and smart, diligent people can even find IT all. You know, that's like the smart, diligent people are still getting ripped off. Yes, I mean.

look at X, I mean.

I mean, F, T, X ripped off some very, very intel, L, L, L.

G G and friends of body diligence at F T X. 对。

But what is an important but I mean, you have a sophistication. I mean, they're such an easy solution to that should just do a sophistication test. People take five course and the answer fifty questions.

The end like a drivers S I think little that's why I talk about private equity. These are extremely sophisticated stick tions who are always investing alongside their clients yeah um and thereby an established businesses. They're putting leverage johna.

But look, I think private equity is kind of a middle ground in a on a pool basis. I think you could argue you and you know maybe those funds would need to change. They're reporting in the disclosure to deal with kind of the average american. But um by that, I mean stringin IT, but I think private equity, his comments were well taken. That's what I would take that you I mean.

I think the the orbit of the room is really funny here is that you have the people on the left saying the only people of lots of money are smart enough to be allowed to do this. But I think this is a very funny decision to take and use. Like you, you have to have a few million dollars to be sophistic ted, enough to be allowed to this.

Like, I like your idea, jack, all of a test. Like, like there should be, there should be some other way of accessing this, if you really want to. I I agree, I agree this. I don't want live in a world. We were all costly. Being spammed to the average person by like stupid financials, stuff that just we would be scanned all the time to ably should be some rules I I A total libertarian on this I think would be really knowing you but you .

but just a totally block people from participating to me that sounds crazy yeah like I mean finance college professor you know might um .

unless they had another job might not fifty thousand dollars to .

talk about a very important public market set of transactions gave a like your point of view on Michael sailors convert note issuances being used which this morning this morning blend g reported is the hot dest create in hetch funds right now make if you could pull up the article and then J L, I know you've been an outspoken opinion letter on Michael sailor's promotion of his security's actions. Would love your point of view, Gavin.

You see at some point this does get too big for a while. When I was smaller, you know, you could support the day if you explain IT.

Could you explain IT? Everyone, Kevin, yeah.

So what do he is doing is issuing dead and buying bitcoin with the promise that bitcoin is always going to go up. And he, you know, made alcor arguments. why? Why that is the case.

No, trees grow up the sky. And I think the interest expense on his convertible notes is seventy five million off the top of my head about the way I am. I could care less about microstrip. Gy, like i'm not close to IT. I'm not involved yeah I don't know any head funds who owe IT .

no worse in the rest yeah .

yeah I I think a lot of head funds are short microstrip gy, but I have no horse in the race but the but he is the underlying business that you know pays the interest expense on the debt only does four hundred million dollars in revenue and has seen high gross march in revenue. But I just unless that investors have absolute confidence in bitcoin has collaborated, and I don't think that's where fixed income markets are yet.

He IT will get to a point where IT is IT is too big fix size of his company in india. Maybe he can overcloud ze IT and you know, have two dollars in bitcoin for every dollar of debt. But then like the the magic money creation machine that you know I see discussed on acts breaks down because that's like you know that some. That's very, very different than what is being discussed today.

Joe, you have a point of you because joe got to run, by the way. So joe, you .

want I very olive energy. Ty, I I agree with what you said, dave, that there is like you easily be some barriers for the public taking crazy risks. And I think the ruins around how he's accessing this is actually very unusual. Dos, scare me a bit. And people need to do their research tradition, just like for money without study IT IT doesn't are me a little bit how likely people are throwing money this without knowing the kind of leverage's taking, you know, yeah do anything .

else you want to share that you're up to that you're excited about before you head out 啊 well.

you know uh I this this weekend is the annual defense form of the rega library were on the board is the big is biggest expense event of the year. Everyone is coming in.

I I guess I guess I am really excited that amErica has like woken up and assuming we can bring back more advances manufacturing here, I think there's enough talk companies now with Andrew with sea to be building thousands of these vesle for the navy, with A I uh, with apps for like turning things off, you know, ten miles away. Whatever fly far with microwave radiation is really cool technology coming that actually is going to make a speed to deter enemy. So if you asked me six, seven years ago, as panic get away behind china, I feel really good about IT. Now I think and and and I think I think you know, K, X, K, no is actually someone on quite bullish everything i'm hearing. So I think I think .

things are going the right direction. Is there a whole sale of great happening in defensive united states? Are all systems and all strategies being rethought right now using technology and innovation and kind of a performance based product mindset leading， uh, kind of a reinvention of everything? Is that what's going to happen?

Warfare, fundamental, totally shifted. We're seeing some of this in the ukraine is all sorts of new ways. You wants to swarm things on the lands, warm things, the water of things in the year.

How do they coordinate, how do they work together? How do you make sure enough these things and and how do you use electronics warfare in new ways? You know, they is basically created by this.

And so that is just a whole new way of doing things. And we are going that direction. Too much of the money, David, like ninety fibers of the money still going towards like Frankly, like wasteful legacy.

like mostly things we don't, yes.

but enough is shifting and there's enough to people fighting. And as long as we keep just allowing open competition, allowed to say, okay, which is Better, and just let the best things away in as law as we keep doing that, I think it's doing the right way of feeling very good about IT.

Is the chinese position shift in their technology strategy and their system strategy gona motivate a shift here, do you think? shift? definitely.

So don't .

need big aircraft Carriers. We don't need that thirty five, need drone.

We need lasers. I think I think there's a world. I think there's a role for Carriers and force projection. I don't think we need like incremental a more of them.

I'm not like this crazy radical where you get rid of all this beyond the margin and much three other half ten thousand more smart thrones above below the water than like an inter incremental career, right? So there there's on a merger is always things that are Better use of money. I think we're pushing that way.

And is there a huge title wave of venture money? I was at a dinner last night where there is this conversation about defense tech used to be off limits. A lot of L, P, A, so you can invest in defense companies.

That's now change. There is changing and everyone is kind of coming up with their own defense tech strategy. Do you think I mean, you are obviously ly in this, Gavin, on one of your investor in the space. What are you guys think a big shift? Yeah.

I I obvious. Ly, I think this point I started, three of them invested, three of the first around, obviously prety involved in in in the space. And I think you list and IT helps me if there's more money for my companies, which is really great, right? I think is probably the right answer for the U S.

Is not going to be like a thousand businesses or hundred businesses be it's going to be like seventy ten new primes. One of them obviously underworld, I think one's priori contra. But like there's going to seven ten new primes, and that's what's going to be.

So this should be a lot sales and a lot of bad of vestments. But yes, these seven atten new primes are going to be huge. And if you can get access to him, you going to do really well.

Haven't had you look at that market.

You I agree with everything, just the thing I have just had on china what we are doing by restricting their access to advanced um compute and advanced network. King, if you have read or watched the three three body problem, amErica is unfolding as so on over china. Yeah yeah, that's great.

I say I have been really impressed with um some of the chinese models have come out and I think the risk to this strategy is necessity is the mother of invention. And despite this handicap, they are managing to stay just behind the leading edge of america, which is amazing. But you know the video black trip comes out next year. You have new tips from d new six from broadcom. And I I think at that point, IT is not going to be possible for them to .

keep up anymore. And so that's actually positive regulation and great in your mind, foreign policy .

IT is very aggressive foreign policy yeah so they .

could have lots .

of unforeseen consequences.

Yeah what do you think about the the rare earth trade restrictions coming to us? And is that can actually effect this?

We have lots of rare earth here. AmErica I can make. We have everything in america.

No, I think there's a project under way to restart rare production. And this will ever to be a conflict. All the stuff would go.

It's a cost, and it's allowing us to do the refining here. So refining some of this stuff like we desperately need gallium galam night try for things is undoing right with with like shooting the microfilm. The problem is the refining is really messy.

If you let that happen in the U. S. We will still be a messy.

probably cleaner, but but is not letting IT happens there.

Obvious you. Me second. So thank you.

You can. Thank you. Good time.

Jack out. You want do you want to talk about A I was Gavin.

and I think that would be like a great next place to go would be to talk about the supercomputer being built by a friend of the pod, elon. He's now got the world's largest supercomputer. He's going to send exit, according to reports.

yes. And I would just say this is, I think, a very important moment for AI know for the entire AI traded republican and private markets. You know, everybody i'm sure to who watches your podcast is very aware of scaling laws, and we have not had a skillings laws for training.

Or if you turn out of computer, you train a model, you significantly improve the intelligence, the capability of that model. And often there these um you know kind of emerged properties that emerged alongside that that higher right? cute.

No one thought I was possible to make more than twenty five thousand, maybe thirty thousand in vet, thirty two thousand pick number and video hoppers. coherent. And what coherent means is in a training cluster that each G P U. Kind of simplify, knows what every other GPU is thinking. So every GPU in that thirty thousand cluster, those with other twenty nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine and thin, and you need a lot of networking to make that happen.

enabled by instance.

abandon in the ban and and I think even more importantly in veiling, although a lot of eternel is you will never bet against the internet, never bet against the internet. Um like if you read the law at three point, one technical paper, you have got a lot of people excited about skinny skater net.

But just we'll go down for the audience given maybe explain why transporting information between the GPU is important. And we're talking we get there in the weeds. There are a little bit everybody's heard of eating up with some of other protocols and ways of moving stuffs large amounts of dat. That's what these eight two hundreds, eight two hundred hundreds do particularly well. They'll move a couple of terribles a second from one processor to the next processor.

Yeah so um you know picture a server. In the case of GPU, IT looks like maybe three pizzo xe stacked on top of each other and IT has eight G P U. together. And those h pu are connected today with something called in value. Rather, you can think of the speed of communication on chip is the fastest chip to memory next fastest you know um chip to chip within a server next fast.

And so you take those units of servers which are connected the GPS are connected on the server with the technology called in the switch and you stitch them together with either in fini band or either that into a giant cluster. And each GPU has to be connected to every other GPU and know what they're thinking. They need to be coherent.

They need a kind of share memory for the computer to work. The GPU need to work together for A I, and no one thought that was possible to connect more than thirty thousand of these with today's technology from public reports. Elan has he so often does focus deeply on this thought about IT from first principles, how long to take the way to be done.

And he came up with a very, very different way of designing a data center. And he was able to make over one hundred thousand GPU coherent. No one thought IT was .

possible.

If I was, I was a last minute add for this, but I would have said there were all these articles that were being published in the summer saying that no one believed he was going to be able to do IT IT was hipe IT was, you know, ridiculous us. And that was coming. The reason the reporters felt comfortable writing those silly stories is because engineers at meta, in google and other firms were saying we can do IT. There's no way he can do IT.

And he did IT.

And I think the world really only believed that when you know that jenson did that podcast, I think with a wasn't IT with .

girls good he was a .

personal and said, um what you did was superhuman no one else could have done that and actually think you can argue that you on doing that and a lot of ways is kind of saved in video from a tough six months period when black clothes delayed. Because everyone who was waiting for black, well, I I thought I was impossible to make a hundred thousand harper coherent rush out. I bought a lot of hoppers to try to do IT themselves.

Now we will see if someone else is able to do IT. IT was really, really hard. No one else thought I was possible. And and. As a result of that drug, three is in trading now on this giant colosse supercomputer and biggest in the world, one hundred thousand tps in matters.

the old electro al lux factory. And they are they're putting a lot of energy in there, a lot of natural gas, a lot of .

yeah a little electronic room yes.

with a lot of mega packs .

around IT in the city of emphasis all in unsupported veness, which is obviously smart for them. But you have not had a real test of scaling laws for training are ugly since GPT four, and this will be the first test and of scaling laws for training, hold grog three should be a significant advance in the state of the art. That is something from like a basic and way to look at the world that is like immensely important data point. But if that car doesn't work and I think that is gonna and these are these going to be really good.

They've raised a tremendous amount capital, a lot of IT from the middle east, and they're supposed to going to build losses to a million GPU. Is this data a goal ten times bigger than IT is currently? There's been some debate back and fourth freebies. Hey, are we hitting a wall here? Maybe you could explain the wall either of you to the audience.

David all. Would Gavin speak to the wall? I I mean, Gavin, I think one of the questions also is, you know, do we see an evolution if if the kind of increment in performance relative to investment. In net kind of training computer resources declines. Do we start to see a shift in um how the architecture of the systems are run, meaning like do we start to build models of models and that starts to resolve a higher love architecture that unlocked new performative capabilities.

So I would just say we're already building models of bottles. You almost every application start up on aware of this training models. You start with the cheap model. You check the cheap models work with a more expensive model. You know, lots of very clever red things are being done.

You know, every every A I application company has what's called the router, so they can swap out the underlying model of another one is Better for the task at hand. As far as what the wall is, there has been a big debate that we are hitting a wall on the scaling loss and the scaling laws were breaking down. And I just thought that was deeply silly because no one had built a cluster bigger than, you know, thirty two thousand and eight one hundred ds, and nobody knew I was a IT was a ridiculous debate.

And there were, you know, really smart people on both sides. But there is there, there is no new data. Rock three is the first new data point to support whether not scaling laws are breaking or holding.

Because no one else thought you could make one hundred thousand harper go here IT. And I think based on public reports, they're going to two hundred thousand um hoppers and then the next check is a million IT was reported. They're going to be first in line for black well but rox ti is a big card and will resolve this question of whether not we're hitting a wall.

The other question raised, David, is very interestingly, by the way, we see note, there is now a new access of scaling. Some people call the test time compute, some people call the infant scaling. And basically, the way this works, just think of these models as human.

The more you speak to one of these models, the way you would speak to you, like seventeen year old going off to take the S. A, T, the Better will do for you as a human. You know, if I ask you, David, what's two plus two four flashes in your mind right away? If I ask you to, you know, unify a grand unified theory of physics that accounts both quality mechanics and relativistic physics, you will think for a lot longer.

We have been.

nobody knows. We have been giving these models the same amount of time to think no matter of how complicated the question was. All you now learned is if you let them think for longer about more complex questions, test time compute, you can dramatically improve their I Q. So we're just at the beginning of this new aling law, but I think the question you raise on R Y is very good. I am happy to .

and there's a context window .

shift underway as well.

which also creates a new kind of scaling access arguably in terms of the potential set of application. So networks of models think time context window. There are multiple dimensions upon which is these tools ultimately kind of resolve .

to a Better performance, even scaling for training break. We have another debate of innovation.

exactly. And as my understanding from speaking to folks, i'm certainly not as deep and well verse to you, but there's a lot of effort and research going on in reengineering various parts of the uh the stack to reduce energy, to reduce every resource that effectively drives model performance to basically, we engineer architecture because IT was all like very brute force for a period of time and IT was like push, push, push. But now as we go back and we start to reengineering architect things in perhaps a more design way, we get Better performance, and there's a lot of work .

to do there still. absolutely.

This is one of the great things about capitalism and a functional and capital market. If you've got people working just on the context and for people who don't know what that is, is that's the number of tokens. But tokens is essentially a word you can think of IT a piece of information. The number of tokens you can put into a conversation with an a large language model, some people have really large context window into a smaller ones, but you can basically put on an entire book in the context window and started asking questions against the model. And the speed of those is critically important as well, because if you put the book in there to take you ten minutes to get an answer that's not functional, right?

Gave A U investor OpenAI.

H I absolutely.

Ah, can you kind of realize on what the build out that being done with colossal to the advantage that OpenAI has today? How long until we canna catch up there with X, A, I N? You know, how much is going to be disrupted and how .

quickly here? Well, is healing. I was hold. The best information I have is the largest cluster, microsoft haz after pannick is still smaller than X A cluster in methods. If you didn't believe I was possible, you you aren't even working on IT gross three should take the lead if scaling laws hold in january, february.

How do you think a lot of talent has left open eye? I thought IT was a really shocking statement from memorable that SHE resigned during a funder ACE. That's the only way you can express disapproval of what is going on there and still probably get her money, right. So I think. Think there's there's a lot of reasons if scaling in us hold be to to be optimistic about crack three. But I think and in the by the way, on the power question and and they are you know twenty, twenty three and twenty four, just a panic to get G, P, S, and get them log in now where you know trying to make them efficient, to thought full into your point rearchitects .

ting them in the h two hundreds now are fifty percent less power, and either fifty percent more, twice as much compute to think they they .

have a little more computer, a lot more memory, but really matters. So per kind of unitive effective computer, there are a lot more power efficient.

They can do the same thing. No.

the h two hundreds, probably not. Probably not two x, but a good increment. One hundred was a great.

and the black was, yeah.

black words is just around the corner. And that's an entirely new architecture with entirely new set of network consumers.

If we have to sort of speculate here, what would consumers how would consumers experiences change in using ford facing language models? And then maybe what are developers going to see on the back and know in terms of what are going to be able to build? Give you your hands out next.

Right now you .

have two years.

Right now you have like your friend in your pocket as an I Q of hundred and fifteen hundred and ten. Maybe that has all of the world's knowledge accessible to IT, and that's what makes IT amazing. I think this will be like you have a friend in your talk but and they sometimes make things up again.

They're very human. And a lot of humans, when they don't know the answer, they just simple, yeah, these are you too. So you will have a friend in your pocket with an I Q of what? Maybe one thirty that knows everything has more up to date knowledge of the world and is more grounded in factual accuracy.

And IT is interested for any any question involving real time information, mostly sports infinite. You know, I always, you have to stuck down twenty five percent. Ask every A I, why to stuck down twenty five percent generally.

greg is the one that knows obvious that because of the twitter data set, he knows what is happening at the moment .

in the world today.

alright. And then, you know, as we sort of wrap up here on the AI issue, what about the R Y here that David .

was mentioned? Yes, I find these displays also very funny. You know, there have been articles written about the multi hundred billion dollar R I questions. Those are very strange to .

me because you.

the biggest spenders on G P U are public companies, and they report financial results every quarter. And you can calculate a metric called return on a vested capital. yes.

And R O I C R O I has gone vertical since they rent their capex s on G P S and actually just started to level out in this latest quarter. So the r line A I has been very positive thus far. Just effect, it's a really good question. Will IT continue, particularly if you know it's going to cost one hundred billion dollars to train model in two or three years? What I think is the real alister customer um because the .

counter to that isn't the counter to that, that maybe there's a little bit of height, but you know maybe there people are trying to determine the airline in correlated more precisely. And I guess that's the chAllenge, you know matter to wing AI across the entire enterprise. You might see and google you might see directly making .

ads more effective as an example.

And but then for other folks like you know, is IT actually happening or is IT a toy? I guess, is the criticism I here, i'm not saying that's my position, but that's the crisis I am here. Is like or people actually getting money from the copilot? Or maybe this is just product market fit discovery process because the the AI laptops, AI intelligence on apple, and let's say, some general elms people feel maybe aren't worth the money or copy for microsoft, maybe not worth the money.

Yeah, I mean, I persume not had good experiences with copilot, but I would say. That and i'm sure both of you have come across ses. There are lots of companies that are just the ten rappers over a foundation model and they go from zero to forty million titaness.

sly. Yeah, they're profitable. And for their customers, they replacing labor budget. I think i'm sure you guys are noticing this too. But startups today at a given size are employing fewer people than they would have three years ago. And just like you know, it's funny.

People are very kind and fifty percent yeah .

and that's the R Y. On A I and like, you know, I went to the first A W S. Reinvent comforts. And no big companies were using cloud computer with all startups. Startups are always adored technologies first. So outside of the R O I N A I vict seeing in google, meta from, you know, using this across their businesses, you are seeing real R O I A I from startups the same way they saw real R O I from club computing before anyone else.

It's crazy.

but I don't think these companies are in a classic prisoner's delima. They all believe to vary degrees that whoever gets there first to artificial super r intelligence is good to create tens or hundreds of trillions of dollars of value. And I think there may be right.

And I if they get there and they think that if they lose the race, their company is a mortal al rest. So as long as one person is spending, I think they will all spend. Even if the R Y decel ates IT is a classic. Prisoners to competition .

is amazing and really is where you have a free market with competition. We're sitting here two years ago, three years ago on this boat, Gavin, just lamenting like, oh my god, what can happen in china could just roll over us. We've got everything died in where a disaster.

And now here we are. China is a disaster. They've got all kinds of chAllenges. And the free market is even with weapons systems, we're seeing capitalism applied in competition apply there. But I think we should just wrap up on this, uh, brian Thomas, the story. The united health care was shot, killed in outside of manhattan hotel on wednesday morning.

United heth care is an insurance subsidy of united health group, and the employ over hundred forty thousand people may provide coverage to millions in this was another, if you seen them, assume you guys have seen the video on social media, go by on ex. There's a been a big debate. Was this like a really well trained killer, like an assessing like a heart gun? Was IT something personal maybe in this person to hack? And they're not really good at doing hit like this.

And most people are served coming somewhere between abc has reported, and this is where this thing is taken, like a crazy turn, that the words deny, defend and depose. We're discovered on the bullet case inside the scene, and those are the terms. Two of the three are in a book about how health insurer reject many the claims every year.

They deny that they defended, and then they will depose people to arrest them. Essentially, this is a crazy, crazy story and it's breaking here. I don't know if anybody has any insights on IT, but I thought I would bring IT up here to just maybe intelligently specular about what we've seen. I me that .

seems like the most likely case is someone's loved one died, purse they were denied covered. And whether this person was hired or there a victim or related to a victim, I don't know that matters. I I think there's. The observation make is a question, which is should C E S be personally responsible for corporate actions, generally speaking? So there's a difference between A C E O committing fraud or being negligent. But if you don't get a good service or good quality of service or the product you expect, even if IT is something you depend on for health care, for example, let's say you take a drug and the drug causes a side effect that causes some permanent damage to the CEO be individually held accountable.

And if that were the case, would anyone want to be A C E O of a company that sets out provide services that aren't critical like this? It's a very like, I think, chAllenging question to think about because certainly you could feel like you want to hold someone responsible because I loved one died because that ceo's job was to make more money for their shareholders and therefore deny claims. And therefore, the way that they run that business is wrong. I think ultimately, we've got a kind .

of have this .

distinction between negligence, fraud and acting on the corporate behalf. There's a there is a for a period of time all of these um documentaries and this movement against the idea of the corporation, generally speaking, just remember .

this was like a year ago, fifty years ago.

Yeah and it's like this, the corporation shield individuals and the corporation creates a shield for individuals to do harm is kind of the argument that made. And so there's a lot of people in this camp that think that these all cees of companies that let people down or evil should be killed, should be put in jail, whatever the awful kind of contextualized about is.

And I do think like it's really important to think about what if no one were to be the C. E. O.

Because they face that bread and those companies can make money as a business, then those services go away entirely. That's kind of the end state where this goes. There's gonna be these difficult situations.

If A C E O does something negligent, fraudulent, wrong, there's a court and there's a system and there should be kind of laws that protect people. I, I, I don't know. And I the whole thing is pretty depressing to think that a guy who is the CEO is from guys got a family yeah I mean, a family.

He's got a wife of people that have known him and he was like a nice guy and good guy. And he runs a tough business. You know insurance is a very tough business.

Well into your point about this, seems like it's very personalized with the casings if that is in factory against this breaking news. So were speculating here, hopefully informed. This chart has been the one that's been circulating on social media.

Now this has now become Gavin like a rock ck test about how you feel about corporate america, health care eeta. But united health care, at least according to these charts that are speculating, deny claims at a rate at a multiple two or three acts, other people in the industry, and that they are the most hated. Not any of this obviously results in somebody deserving to die.

I mean, I team, if i'm even saying this, but tell the reds was when viral with a series of tweet, not tweet. I think she's on whenever ver, the blue thing is sky blue, blue sky where SHE wrote some quotes here and people wonder why we want these executives dead. The wrote on blue sky and micro black sea side article about how blue sky, blue cross, blue eld no longer cover anesthesia for the following surgeries uh, that's according to the new york post. Gavin, your thoughts on this since and .

trade and well, first, while the tragedy IT, actually i'm in new york as we record this and that happened one block from where I am. And I mean, IT IT is absolute. It's a human tragedy. Tavern was not the only person on social media who reacted that way, which I thought was deeply troubling.

who was a large group of people who are writing very morbid comment. There's a lot of anger around this issue that I was unaware of.

还有 什 aware of IT。

But I think we all probably are very privileged to have great house care and able to pay our premium. So we're not affected by this at this stage in our lives. I was very affected .

by the thirty years there were all very Lucy yeah. And like, I can't imagine how I would feel if yeah someone I loved had been denied medical care and died. And I felt like I was a unnecessary and. You know do the you know some corporation trying to make more money but I just I cannot believe i'm sure I be alright. But you can believe I was deeply disturb as a person by the number of people online celebrating this.

So yeah, I thought .

I was I was awful. And I guess the last day, I just say about that chart as I think that is a little leading. I think that is initial denial. You know maybe that do you know other words, maybe the company only nine, seven percent, that's a final company. That those .

that the charts even correct, I bring IT out. Only that IT is the trending item. And people are, I find in these tragedies they become like .

car shock test, right? Care, medical loss. Y show is about eighty five percent. So eighty five cents of, so eighty five cents of every dollar, they collect the insurance premium and they're paying out in claims.

If you guys want to look at what the most egregious insurance industry in the world is, its title insurance, and i'll give you the list of the rest. Travel insurance is pretty bad. They pay out like nothing. I ah me you health insurance is the hardest one of the hardest besides auto insurance business is to be in uh, you're paying out constantly.

And uh, there is a very difficult kind of process of managing losses of the of claims that comes in and is very easy to suddenly pay everything out and then your premium goes up and that people can afford to help insurance. So they are striking the baLance of making health insurance affordable against the cost of medical claims. So it's a very kind of difficult business. And and and I think it's very complicated to walk people through the how they in their individual circumstances aren't necessarily motivated by some corporate you know, mouth seasons is just the the the way the the thing that has to Operate.

Unfortunately, let me just say I I think that much like we saw what come as and the the attacks in israeli year ago, there were people celebrating that behavior and we've seen at several times since and and and people have become very vocal about their celebration of what they view to be, uh, the death and harm done to those who view who they view to be oppressors in whatever context you want to kind of fit this to and put that oppressive y label on an individual. And that mindset seems to hold through through any social, financial, economic, political context. There is an oppressor group, and there is an oppressed group.

And if you're in the oppressor group, you deserve harm, you deserve death, you deserve jail. And this is another manifestation of that mindset playing out. This is an individual with a family who ran a business who worked very hard for many years and wasn't trying to hurt people and uh for him to kind of be be, have his life taken like this and for people to say that person is an oppressor I think really speaks to how deeply uh, people's minds have been reported by this concept that there is oppressors and oppressed. It's almost like a mind virus and i'm not to all IT the work mind virus, but uh, because I just think immediately shut down on here that because this sounds quick but there is this concept of like everyone is in one of two groups are either being oppressed or your oppressed and if you're oreskes or there is no limit to what I should do or what should be done to you, I think well, and it's a it's a very fast it's a very start and sad kind of commentary and right.

what's going on right now? If press the that considered oppressed, you can do no wrong.

wrong?

Yeah, that is, obviously, there are people who are impressed on this planet, but they can still do wrong. They should still be held to a moral standard.

And there is a moral standard, and there is a standard, and murder of ously and assassination like this is not acceptable, and it's just tragic. So terrible for this.

These kids is end on a happy note. So we will see you on big party heart turn here.

but looking forward to seeing everybody on saturday for the all in holiday is sponsoring the so if you want to go to all in 点 com， you can go sign up their right yeah.

And then you can sign up for the zoom Gavin. We expect you to sign up. Yes.

have a career or budget. We have to replan each side .

you appreciate zoom help in yourself for the zoom AI companion help set up the the live stream of thanks to the one for doing that everywhere.

I have to say one of the great I I have a couple of experience of the AI that are really great notion has a phenomenal A I built into IT. And so does zoom with the A I summaries. I love getting these A I summary es of calls. I ask people permission to turn on and we get a summary in the bullet point point. Really well done.

I went to we did a hacket thon in the office a couple of weeks ago. We used have you guys actually built applications with cursor? Yes, I have not.

Was a fun to build, was, well, IT was great because we had so many people that have never built software applications in the hayston and they build tools from scratch, deployed them in production and are now using them. And I think IT really showcases the um kind of the impressive impact that A I is having on workplace productivity. You don't need to buy safe tools. You don't need to help service providers do stuff for you individuals and tithe way only getting Better and .

you going to be supporting the ability to just wake up in the morning and say.

I want this APP and have you built three? And by the way, i'll just say it's seventy, eighty percent there. You still have to debug. You still to have someone come in and help kind of get things in the production, and it's still going to work just like back back to the two months .

ago and and they go back to person and you fast forward twelve months.

And now you've got the architecture where the A, I can run its own Q A testing and debugging and the A, I can run its own kind of you and I know it's it's on U X of the application and I can run everything. So you're basically GTA say, I want this APP to do this. IT built IT IT tested IT built the U.

X. A test for U. X. IT iterative, the U. X. IT. Does everything remind for you? And then you show up a couple hours later, and you're using a new product that was built on the fly for you. IT is and we're literally like climbing this latter, Gavin, like very quickly that it's gonna totally change. The entire software industry is like getting rearchitects.

I could guess, freeburg up at his company hacks. I made, I made a vegan version of yelp, only profile of the veg. I A, C R M tool.

so that I wouldn't have to pay for C R. M licenses.

I tried that once to go to a.

so I tried .

that once go to a 呀。 Multiplayer APP for sky room, which I was very excited with, scary in, but I do think I failed. Maybe I should give another. But you learned.

you didn't. I .

learned.

learned.

I learned to learn.

But I think next year the human language will be the dominant programing language.

So total, it's totally yeah, you really made a great insight earlier, Gavin, with you know startups whose where you see these innovations happen. And I I always say internally, resource constraints really do dry innovation. And when you only have a nickel, you got to try to get a dollar out of IT.

When you ve got a dollar and you ve got a lot of dollars, you're like, that's okay. If I get in the lot of a dollar, I got more dollars laying over here. And delay always talked about this as well.

Like they they asked him like, why did IT blood on the tracks? Like why did you do that was incredible. Like, it's this wrong star interview talking to dEllen about. He said, this was like my favorite album, and this is incredible whatever.

Like what SHE inspiration taking me behind and said, well, you know, I would, columbia records in album, and they had given me an advance, and they were going assume, and I had to give the money back, and I just got through a divorce, and I needed the money and I couldn't do IT. So I wrote the album. I was judge for the goose crushed that delay one of his best albums and vises of art in his life was strictly a function .

of the pressure of the of both technical and creative .

invention solution.

Aren't everyplace guess having .

Baker chill on stone? David freedman g and we miss you. Sax a uh taking an uh a Victory day and taking Victory day today. Mice, I am the world's greatest moderator and we'll see you next time when we all in post my life.

拜拜。

Rainman gave.

We open sources .

to the fans.

and we .

just got crazy.

Should all get a room one big, huge because.

Seo 我。

一定 给我。