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cover of episode Ray Dalio | The All-In Interview

Ray Dalio | The All-In Interview

2025/1/28
logo of podcast All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

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Dave Friedberg
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Ray Dalio
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Ray Dalio: 我在书中阐述了国家债务的运行机制。信用如同血液,债务如同动脉中的血栓。关键在于债务产生的收入是否足以偿还债务。如果不足,就会导致经济问题,如同动脉堵塞。可以通过测量信用和债务服务来观察经济中的“动脉堵塞”情况。经济“心脏病发作”发生在债务供应超过需求时。政府可以通过印钞购买债务来应对,但会导致通货膨胀。债务危机的动态是可测量的,在所有国家都可见。 美国目前面临严重的长期债务风险,长期利率上升而短期利率下降或持平,这是债务危机的最大预警信号。美元相对强势,但相对于黄金和比特币却贬值,这也是债务危机的迹象。黄金是最好的财富储存手段,因为它不易被征税,可国际转移。 解决美国债务危机的关键在于控制财政赤字,目标是将赤字降至GDP的3%。这需要迅速采取行动,在经济良好的时期进行财政紧缩,并通过减少政府支出和提高税收来实现。同时,要认识到,如果采取这些措施,债券市场将受益,利率将下降。 此外,要关注投资组合的多元化,减少风险,并关注那些在货币贬值时受益的资产,例如黄金、比特币等。 Dave Friedberg: 美国联邦政府债务已达36.4万亿美元,债务与GDP比率为125%,自2020年以来持续攀升。疫情期间的大规模刺激导致美联储加息,推高了借贷成本,尽管近期降息,但长期利率仍飙升至2008年金融危机前的水平。美国政府每年赤字近2万亿美元,占GDP的近7%,仅利息支出就超过1万亿美元,且未来十年国家债务预计将增加近24万亿美元。 增加货币供应会导致名义资产价值上涨,但实际购买力下降。市场上涨是以美元计价的,美元贬值会降低实际购买力。增加货币供应如同增加流通的贝壳数量,导致商品价格上涨,购买力下降。 美国政府债务占政府收入的比例已达到700%,远超警戒线。解决债务危机需要采取多种措施,包括增加税收、削减支出、央行购买债务以及债务重组。这些措施都会对民众产生负面影响,但必须采取行动以避免更严重的危机。 Ray Dalio提出的“3%解决方案”旨在将财政赤字降至GDP的3%,这需要迅速采取行动,在经济良好的时期进行财政紧缩。 此外,要关注投资组合的多元化,减少风险,并关注那些在货币贬值时受益的资产,例如黄金、比特币等。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The US is facing a massive debt crisis, with a debt-to-GDP ratio exceeding 125%. This is due to factors like increased government spending and rising interest rates. Ray Dalio explains the mechanics of this crisis, drawing parallels to the circulatory system and highlighting the risks of debt monetization and inflation.
  • US federal government debt is $36.4 trillion, exceeding GDP.
  • The debt-to-GDP ratio has climbed steadily since 2020.
  • The US government runs a nearly $2 trillion annual deficit and pays over $1 trillion in interest.
  • The big debt cycle typically lasts about 80 years, and the US is in the midst of one.

Shownotes Transcript

(0:00) Ray Dalio joins Friedberg!

(0:50) The current US fiscal situation

(6:23) Breaking down "The Big Debt Cycle," a potential US debt spiral, and the impact on real wealth

(24:54) USD vs other currencies and assets, best hedges against the dollar

(33:20) Portfolio construction, how China increases risk for US AI companies, why this market reminds Ray of 1998-1999

(41:45) How the US can avoid a debt crisis

(53:29) DOGE, Trump, and AI's greatest risk

(1:05:31) Chances of conflict between the US and China

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Referenced in the show:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp)

https://www.crfb.org/press-releases/treasury-confirms-calendar-year-2024-deficit-tops-20-trillion)

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61172)

https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/2bstne1l09npgdk1s5yww/corner-office/ray-dalio-makes-his-exit-from-bridgewater)

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL)

https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/outlook/economic-outlook/fed-meeting-september-2024)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertfarrington/2024/11/08/fed-cut-interest-rates-so-why-do-mortgage-rates-keep-climbing)

https://www.chathamfinancial.com/insights/fomc-recap-december-2024)

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/14/a-global-bond-sell-off-is-deepening-as-hopes-for-multiple-fed-rate-cuts-fizzle.html)