Jillian Olmsted On Serving The Homeless Population, NIMBYism, And Running The Inn Between
40:44 Share

Hello, UUP listeners. It's been a while since we've met in person, and we were thinking maybe it's time we set up another date. We're so excited that we're going to be hosting a very special UUP live event in New York City on April 30th at the Palladium Times Square. Expect the games you love, spicy dating reveals, and even a live dating app may go over. But this time,

with you in the audience. Rally your friends, bring your craziest dating stories, and join Jared and I live for a night of laughs that you won't want to miss. Tickets are on sale now, so visit betches.co slash uuplive to get yours before they're gone. Rise and shine, fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm V Spear, and this is American Fever Dream presented by Betches News. And today, we're going to take a sort of break from politics and

And that the thing we talk about will eventually always end up being political in some form. But we're starting off with good intentions to talk about just this really cool person that I got to meet a couple of years ago who does really incredible work and will help us like raise our vibe and get in touch with our humanity, I hope.

Her name is Jillian Olmsted, and she's the executive director of this place called The In-Between, which is in Salt Lake City, Utah. And their mission is to end the tragedy of vulnerable people dying in the streets of Utah by providing medical respite and end-of-life care to those experiencing homelessness. Jillian, welcome to the show, my friend. It's so good to see you again. So good to see you, too. So today we are on a new show, a

Jillian was a guest on my first podcast, which was called Be Interesting. And your story just stuck with me so much that when I came over here, I was like, we have to have her back and introduce her to this audience. Because the work you do is so uniquely incredible. And on a show like American Fever Dream, talking to somebody who is the executive director of a hospice care facility for unhoused people seems like exactly a fever dream and something that we should do.

not have to have. And it seems like you shouldn't be the only one in the whole country that's doing this work, but here we are. Can you tell me a little bit about the in-between? Yes. Yeah. Thank you for giving us an opportunity to share what we're doing here at the in-between. So we're about to celebrate our 10th anniversary. So we've been around for a little bit. But even before we opened our doors, this was an idea created or dreamed up by a nurse at a local hospital who was finding it really difficult to

treat people, maybe they qualified for hospice care or needed a cancer treatment, but they weren't eligible to receive it because they didn't have a house, a stable place to stay. So she started working with a group of people in Salt Lake City trying to find a way to make this dream come true. And in 2015,

We opened in our first facility, a 16-bed facility, where we were predominantly providing a place for unsheltered individuals to receive hospice care, something that you can't typically receive on the street or in the shelter because you need a place and caregivers. And about how many folks have come through the facility now going into the 10th year? It's been over 900. Wow.

Yeah. So 900 people have come through our facility. So far, 152 have had dignified passings with us. So that means the other 800 plus people came to us, got better, recuperated.

and left. And in the last year, about 25% of the people who come through our program have left to some sort of permanent supportive housing solution. So we work really hard while they're with us to try and break their cycle of homelessness, if at all possible. And some of the stuff that I found so interesting was the way that people come into the facility, they might not have ever experienced this level of truly empathetic person-first care.

And you have sort of a process for getting to know people and not just like doing care at them. Like, I remember you telling me a story about how someone was like, no, it's my goal to get better because I want to go back to the street. Like, I don't necessarily want to change my whole life. Like some people have a structure that they're happy with. Can you talk about some of the different people that come through and what their goals might be? Yeah, sometimes we have people coming in and it's their first time experiencing homelessness and maybe they never even hit the shelter system. It could be

your average person who got a cancer diagnosis, couldn't work, lost their job, health insurance, and is about to lose their home. We will take that individual as a diversion to homelessness. They do not have to actually be on the streets before they come in. And I would say those individuals are more what probably you and I would assume you would be like if you came into a facility, like be in between ready to accept help, excited that there was a resource for us and wanting to work hard on,

maybe getting back into housing. For those that are chronically homeless and have maybe been through the system and through the cycle over and over again, emergency room, shelter, emergency room, shelter, they feel a bit like society has pushed them aside or failed them. So we have to work a little bit harder to help them bring those walls down. Some people come in and

They've not been feeling well for a long time. And so we need to comfort them, let them know we're here to help them and that we're going to do the best we can. And we just need them to trust us and work alongside us so that we can help them reach their goals, whatever that may be.

And yeah, if someone says to us, I'm not really interested in housing, I don't think I could ever get into housing. We really challenge that and say, well, but what if you could? If we were able to get things started and get you on some housing lists, maybe get you into some permanent supportive housing so you'd always have case management there to support you, would you be interested in that? And yeah.

More often than not, after a couple of meetings with our care coordinators, people say, you know what, actually, I do want to try because they get a glimpse of having their own house again. They've got a room and a TV and a dresser. And, you know, they kind of think maybe I'm willing to try it again, even if it doesn't work out. Right. Now, there's, you know, some sadness that happens in this house, but there is a lot of joy that happens in this house also.

You had a couple that got married at the house. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yes, we actually had two people, two couples that got married at the in-between. The first one was really the first event we had in this new larger facility that we purchased in 2018. They met at the in-between and they fell in love and they wanted to get married and

And, yeah, I talked a bit about this individual, Ernie, the last time we chatted. He was very interesting because he had grown up in the foster system and before turning 18 decided he didn't want to continue to be just kind of tossed around from foster family to foster family and decided to just go and live off of the land.

He found himself in Salt Lake City because his doctor told him his heart would do better in this environment. And he wound up at the in-between. And once he became close to passing, he asked us to help arrange hospice care from a tent to

Southern Utah so that he could pass away living on the land in the same way he chose to do when he was a teenager so that was really heartbreaking for me because I was like why don't you want this great warm bed and people to make you breakfast and but that's not what he wanted and so we were able to partner with the hospice agency that was checking in on him weekly and then let us know when he passed away so he passed away on his own terms and

So yeah, weddings, passings, they're all kinds of things and not predictable or typical. It seems like every time we say we've seen it all, something new comes towards us. And what made you want to get into this work? This is not something, you know, on like career day and kindergarten, somebody comes in and is like, I want to be a death coordinator. Like that's

That's a pretty rare path. Like, how did you come to this work? Yeah, I don't think I had ever really thought about the unsheltered population very much at all, let alone those who might be passing away. I'm from North Dakota and growing up there in the 80s, not many homeless people at all. You didn't you didn't really learn what it was like if you found yourself in that situation. But when the in-between was first opening, there was the

consternation in the neighborhood of not wanting it to open anywhere near a residential neighborhood and luckily the Catholic diocese provided a place for us to open and I was just hearing in the news but not in my backyard and at the same time that was happening my mom and stepfather were diagnosed with cancer just a few weeks apart from each other and a year later they passed away just a few weeks apart from each other and they both utilized hospice and

with two passings within about a month. I don't know how my sister and I would have been able to manage that without the support of hospice. So it just kind of clicked with me what is it with the neighbors that don't see this as just a human right and the the dignified thing to do is just to provide the bed for someone to pass away in. So I started volunteering there and it was a tiny staff of less than five people relying mostly on volunteers

cooking, cleaning, sitting bedside. And shortly thereafter I was hired to run the fundraising events and it's now been eight years and I've kind of done almost every role and helped support the transition into this larger facility. And then recently we were able to expand from those 50 beds to 63. We worked really hard this legislative session to secure $450,000 so we can now expand from 63 beds to 80 beds. So we'll be using

this building to its full capacity now that the zoning allows us to do so. Yep, because I read that the property values surrounding this facility actually went up, not necessarily as a result of the facility, but for the folks who think not in my backyard, it had no effect. In fact, property values around here are

up. Yeah, I think it had a positive effect on the neighborhood. The prior facility had, you know, 80 some individuals there. They were not the same population that we're serving. Lots of friends, family, visitors, and we're really nestled in a residential neighborhood. So it was very busy according to the neighbors. So those that are really close to the in-between often tell us it's much quieter, there's less traffic, there's less going on.

And yes, it hasn't caused property values to go down, quite the opposite. And we have not had any issues, any legal issues with neighbors or neighbors having to call the police. A few times we've had neighbors come and get us because one of our residents had maybe fallen down or injured themselves on the way to the store and they were helping them. Many neighbors bring us cookies during the holidays or their kids will make us cards.

So it took us about two years to really work through the few people in the neighborhood that were upset about the program. But now I would say we have

Way more supporters than we don't hear about those who don't support us. When my gram was in assisted living towards the end, we got her one of those scooters and she used to like sneak out. And this was my favorite. She would like take her motorized scooter to the front and they'd be like, OK, Betty, you're going to sit out front for a little while. And then she would like scoot her way around the block just to like get some air and see something different.

And the one time that her scooter broke down, the neighbor had to call my dad to like try and sneak her back into the facility. So it's like that's the there's like, dare I say, like a cuteness about people who are at the end of life who are facing, you know, sort of like this.

This situation and are in a place of care in a neighborhood where maybe for the first time in a long time, they feel a part of a community. They feel cared for. They could close their door and sleep without fear for the first time. And of course, like you said, there are people who come in like a hospice and maybe they get out. And then there are other people who come there to pass away.

We talked when we talked last time, I told you about how they used to call my mom the angel of death because she did hospice care and she was real good at it. She would like she had a little speech. She gave the people if their families didn't come visit, we would go sit with them and like talk to them. And they'd be like, oh, my God, my children are here. And we'd be like, yep. But it was us. All kinds of stuff. You know, we grew up with it. And she was just she was really, really good at it. And there are these certain kind of people who can sit.

and sort of like shepherd people to death in a way that is so peaceful and so special. And you have these folks at your facility who are called the No One Dies Alone volunteers. Can you tell me a little bit about those folks? Yeah, so this is a nationally recognized program started at the Mayo Clinic or by a nurse at the Mayo Clinic. And it really was intended for people who may have been lifelighted to a hospital and family wasn't able to get there in time. And so those volunteers at hospitals could step in

and we're essentially doing the same thing except for we typically know there already will not be friends and family. It's rare that that's the case, and so we have volunteers that go through a training, and then when someone is in that active passing phase,

Stay our nurse calls for a notice it is what we call it and those volunteers will get a text message saying that support is needed and to check your email and we send a little bit of a bio out on that person so that people know who they're coming to see and if that person's still verbal they can relate to them talk about maybe where they grew up or their children things like that and

And then they can just take two hour shifts round the clock and it really helps support our onsite CNA staff so that there's someone in the room, especially if that person can no longer push the button letting us know that they are maybe experiencing some pain. Those volunteers can just watch for those signs. And I'm sure with you growing up,

alongside it, you know that it's not there's not really any book that tells you how someone's going to die and sometimes it's perfectly peaceful and sometimes it can seem tragic and tumultuous and so having these volunteers to be able to be that second set of eyes and ears for us and to just provide that compassionate care for people in the end of life is

I don't know what we would do without them because there's never enough staff to support all the residents that we serve. And this is a national program. So if somebody's listening, they could look it up and see if this happens in their area too. Then no one dies alone, volunteers. And if you've never sat with death, I will tell you, it's not scary. It wasn't scary.

I mean, sometimes scary things happen. The lights and the whistles go off or somebody maybe starts, you know, like sort of having like a difficult time breathing or whatever. But most of the death that I've witnessed is not scary. It's like a lot of people have made peace with that time, especially if they're in a care facility and they know it's coming. And some of them can even be kind of prankster-y. Yeah.

There was one lady that my mom was taking care of and she pretended to die all the time and then would be like, gotcha. And we were like, Dorothy, please. Yeah.

Not a funny joke. No. Or my grandma, my grandma Alice, when she was passing away, cause she would get to pass away at home. Cause my mom could be there with her or whatever. We would go in and we were all, she found out that we were sort of taking bets who grandma was going to let be in the room with her when she passed away. And so she would sort of like hold our hand and then let go. And I'd be like, Oh my God, it happened. And it was me. And then it should be like, God, no, you're in it. Nope. It wasn't you. And then of course they passed away. The second everybody went in the kitchen to make a sandwich. That's when, when it happened. But yeah,

Yes, that definitely happens a lot. They wait for it to be quiet.

Pro savings days are back at Lowe's with limited time savings on the supplies pros need. Get up to 40% off select major appliances. Plus, save an additional $100 on every $1,000 you spend on select major appliances. And don't miss your chance to activate and earn three times the points on select DeWalt and Klein tools. Lowe's. We help. You save. Valid at 328. Selection varies by location. While supplies last. See associate or lowes.com for more details on qualifying items.

Your snacking routine can get a little dull. Time for an Oikos Remix or Light and Fit Remix. Like a crunchy storm of sea salt praline pretzels, dark chocolate, and butter toffee showering down into a smooth, creamy yogurt. Enjoy six remix varieties, three epicomplete protein Oikos Remix options, or three craveable Light and Fit Remix options. See remixyogurt.com.

And do people have a choice of like how they wish to be sat with? Like if they're like, hey, I don't really feel chatty. You just sit quietly or you could do music or like what is it like? Yeah, we have our end of life doula who actually lives on property meet with individuals before they get to that active passing. I've never heard of that. An end of life doula.

It's very much like a birth doula. So birth doulas are ushering babies in and end of life or death doulas are helping usher people out and really just working with them before their passing so that we know what their wishes are. You know, do they want music? Do they want people to sit with them? If they don't want anyone to sit with them, we typically plan to ask them again once time gets closer.

closer and we also let them know that those volunteers can sit just on the other side of the wall, just that, you know, again, someone who can maybe hear them if they're groaning or agitated trying to get up. So yeah, they have a choice in it. And we also want to make sure

that we find out do they want us to reach out to their family when it comes to that point. Many people are trying pretty hard to make amends in their final days and the people we're serving have colorful pasts, some of them, and that can cause for a difficult passing if they don't start working through those things. And so oftentimes,

They might say no to reconnecting with family because they're worried about their family members not being willing. So we will let them know we're happy to call them as it gets closer because oftentimes people change their mind if they know death is imminent and this isn't that person trying to get back in their lives if maybe they had...

untreated mental health or substance use disorder, which can be difficult for families. We work hard with them to make sure we know exactly what they want their end of life to look like. One person we absolutely loved that she wanted Tina Turner to be blasting when she was taken out of the building for a final time. That's a good one. Any particular song, Simply the Best? I think it might have been Simply the Best. Yeah. Yeah.

What does happen after people pass away? Because let's like, how do you handle that? There's there's more steps after you die for the people around you typically. Yeah. So for someone who's considered indigent by the state, there is a mortuary that's contracted that comes and takes that individual. And then they hold on to the ashes. They're all cremated. You don't really have an option if it's an indigent person.

And so they're taken to the mortuary and the ashes are kept for a period of time just in case there's anyone that were to come claim those ashes. And then they usually do mass burials. And so some people actually go and attend those mass burials. I know in California there's a famous place called Potter's Field and they do burials there that a lot of people attend. Yeah.

We do try and claim ashes if they'll allow us to. And then we spread their ashes in our memorial garden as long as that's something that that person wanted. What do you think is sort of like...

the biggest problem right now that people end up in this situation to need a place like the in-between? Like, has it changed over the last 10 years? The biggest thing that we're seeing is healthcare costs and housing costs just continue to go up. And they, you know, the cost of living is just so high that most people are just one medical crisis away from winding up in this situation. So we see a lot of those first time homes.

homeless folks, which is really difficult to think of how hard they work to get to a certain point. And then it just took a couple of medical bills that they weren't able to pay that wind them up at the in-between. And yeah, I really think without any...

truly affordable housing solutions coming down the pipeline. We're going to continue seeing this because even if we can do our best and get people better and set them up for success and get them into some sort of housing, what are the odds that they're going to be able to maintain that in this climate where rent just keeps increasing and it incentivizes landlords to not work with individuals who maybe miss one or two months of rent? So

Definitely seeing the medical respite side of our facility, those coming in for some sort of acute condition to resolve that number has skyrocketed over the years. Typically, we see between a 30 and 50 percent increase year after year. So, for example, this year.

we're already at about 300 people served and last year in our full year it was 200 and we run on a fiscal year so we just have a few more months left in this year but you know 50% increase this year over last and we're not even getting everyone in the door right some people get discharged from the hospital early or maybe that person refuses to come in because they don't understand what the in-between is so there's also people that aren't that aren't coming to us so the

The need is growing, unfortunately, but it's a really good solution for people who are determined to be too well to stay in the hospital but are really too sick to be back on the street. Who pays for this? How is this funded? Because I'm sure we have great listeners, so I'm sure a lot of them were like, why is there only one and it's only in Utah? How come this hasn't been sort of like...

pushed out everywhere. It's such a great option. Like, how do you get funding for this? Yeah. So right now we're pretty much grant writing and receiving private donations. So we did work

to help pass an 1115 waiver, which is medical respite for homeless, and that was over four years ago. It was approved through CMS, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services in January, and we are hopeful that it will go through and we may be able to bill insurance in the near future, but it also seems that Medicaid is kind of on the chopping block in a lot of areas.

But if that were to happen, it could possibly be about half of our budget. And that would be, you know, sustainable funding, funding year after year. So right now we're privately fundraising about two and a half million dollars with very little of it being government funding. That is the spookiest, scariest thing right now, right? This idea that they could affect Medicaid or even federal granting for things like, you know, LED lights improvements. There's all kinds of things we apply for grants for when we run facilities, right? That aren't just,

specific to the care. How are like your nurses and doctors and folks on site feeling? Are they feeling, is this, have they been worried or how does it go for them? I don't know if they're truly worried. So we just have one RN and then we have CNAs on staff and the physicians are with the hospice agencies. Got it.

But I think as far as referrals and admissions go, we're mostly nervous about all of our community partners. We are hearing about their funding being reduced or cut and some as early as April 1st. That's probably going to increase the need for the in-between, but also increase the need for us to do additional outreach because people may not...

get referred to us because if you don't have the staffing in hospitals or in these clinics or Volunteers of America, they have street outreach. If they don't have enough funding, they're not going to get to the people to say, hey, there's this great place called the in-between and you can go there and heal and get better or not have to suffer and die on the street. And I think to just touch on

why the in-between doesn't exist everywhere. There are small social model hospices throughout the U.S. and there are medical respite facilities throughout the U.S., but what makes us

really unique is that we became a licensed assisted living facility, which allows us to give a higher level of care, medication management, assistance with activities of daily living, and our size being, you know, up to 80 beds. And then also the fact that we've figured out how to incorporate hospice care in a medical respite setting, which really allows people to come in maybe on medical respite and then, you know, go into a hospice

uh bed or vice versa people who come in on hospice and they just

really needed three meals a day and a place to stay and access to medical care and their medical condition completely rebounded. And so then they can be on our medical respite site until they're ready to move out. So I think it's just the unique model that we've developed here that makes us so special. And we really do welcome anyone who's interested in anything we're doing in between to reach out because we do want this to exist everywhere. We see the benefit and the cost savings to the community.

D'Ussé Cognac is the perfect ingredient to elevate the vibe. Whether you're out for the night or staying in, it's best enjoyed your way. Maybe that's keeping it simple with D'Ussé and Lemonade, an easy-to-make cocktail that blends the sweet tart flavor of lemonade with the smoothness of D'Ussé. Just add D'Ussé to make good vibes better. Tap the banner to learn more. Drink responsibly.

eczema isn't always obvious but it's real and so is the relief from epiglis after an initial dosing phase of 16 weeks about four in 10 people taking epiglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing epiglis labricizumab lbkz a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a

Prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglus can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Ebglus. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems.

You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglys. Before starting Epglys, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Searching for real relief? Ask your doctor about Epglys and visit epglys.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979.

Do you ever have anybody that comes in and ends up like working for the facility or becomes a volunteer or stays in touch? Like, how does that work? We've actually had lots of people come through our program. Just this weekend, we had a resident with severe heart failure that came to the in-between, wanted to start working and wanted to become a CNA. So he got his certified nurse certificate.

aid certificate and just moved out into housing. And he's going to continue working with us. And he's one of many. Another one of our residents

who's been with us on the transplant list has been with us for two years because he wasn't able to afford assisted living, but he was our driver because he was a commercial truck driver. And like a lot of truck drivers, their truck is their house. So if you end up having a medical condition and lose your job, you also lose your house. So he was with us for a while, just got into a long-term care facility and is going to be housed indefinitely.

And those are the success stories that we love because it's one thing to get people back on their feet medically, but also to give them some of those job skills, something on their resume so that when they leave the program, that's something we really love. And we see the benefit of people with lived experience working with those that we serve because they just they've been through it. They know how to talk to them. I have never experienced homelessness. I've experienced end of life and I've experienced other things,

that helped me with this job, but I haven't been on the streets trying to go through the system. So it's an invaluable service that those who go through our program and then work for us provide us. And this is for adults only. It's you have to be over 18 to come. That's correct. Yeah.

And is there is there any other kind of like regulations for how you qualify for this or like what's how does that kind of work? So we have our assisted living side to our program and then we also have the independent living side to our program. The assisted living side has a lot of state regulations to it. So people have to meet certain qualifications.

But the independent living site is much more relaxed. It's considered congregate care. And it's really up to us if that person fits our program criteria. But really, we're just looking at two things. Are they unhoused or maybe precariously housed? Because someone...

may have a home but no caregivers. And so hospice isn't going to be able to provide their services there. So that's the first qualifier. And then needing hospice care or some sort of acute condition that would resolve within a short period of time.

they would qualify for a medical respite stay with us. So we're really just looking at those two things, their housing and their medical condition. One of the other things I love that you guys do is obituaries for everyone, which is something that you would think everybody gets, but if there's no one to write it, then there's not. But I was looking at your website earlier and there's just this beautiful immemorial page with such lovely stories of people who would have otherwise gone completely unseen by general public.

folks who, you know, felt like they didn't belong in society and now have this beautiful space to be remembered as they deserve to be. Do you have any sort of like favorite folks who have come through that have like significantly imprinted on you? Lots of them. And I do the same thing when I go to our website and I'm like, oh yeah, that person. And oh yeah, this person. It's really important to us to make sure that we do remember those who come through our building. And the obituaries are not just to write an obituary, but also if there were to be

family or friends that search that person later on down the road and they reach out to us and we're able to tell them they were with us they weren't alone that is something that is just so relieving to people

to not have to wonder what happened to them. I think I would like to talk just really quick about what we do when someone passes away in the building because we've started using a blue butterfly that we place on their door and that lets the community know that someone is actively passing.

it tells those Noda volunteers where to go. And once that individual passes away, we take that blue butterfly to our weekly house meeting and we do a candle lighting ceremony. And that again is run by one of our resident advocates and

We talk about anything that maybe the NODA volunteers wrote down. Oftentimes those volunteers come to this candle lighting ceremony and can maybe talk a little bit about their last few days. And then we take that butterfly over to our butterfly wall, which is a large magnetic board where we have the butterflies in place.

the pattern of how many individuals have passed away in our facility. So just this last week, it was changed to 152. And what I love the most about it is that usually there's one resident that asks if they can take the butterfly and be the one that places it on the wall because maybe they were the Spanish speaking resident that went in there to check on them a lot, or maybe they knew that person before they came into the in-between.

So for me, I think of all the stories to me, it's the kind of community and the traditions that we've created that allow us to

in whatever small way we need to mourn or grieve, um, these losses and be able to turn around and face, um, the next story, which we feel that they're all good endings. They're all happy endings, even if someone passes away, but that doesn't make them any, um, less hard or less sad. Who takes care of you, Jillian? This is a lot. Oh, I would say probably my husband and my kids. Um,

They're they've always been such a great support. And I was a stay at home homeschooling mom for many, many years. And so when I come home and they've done the dishes or they've made dinner, I think that just makes me feel like the luckiest person in the world. That's wonderful. Do you have any any like tips?

for folks who are experiencing grief right now. There's so, the first time we talked, we talked because I was doing my show and it was really based around like sibling death and how there are just no resources for when a young sibling dies. It's just weird and makes you face your own mortality in a way that it just fucks you up. And,

Like what what are some resources you have for folks who may be experiencing grief that you found were successful? I mean, I think if you did utilize hospice for that individual, go to the hospice. They typically provide grief support for a year, if not more. Yeah.

And then ask your doctor first and foremost if you qualify for any sort of therapy because friends, family, those are all great resources. But we're also not professionals and we find ourselves sticking our feet in our mouth and saying things. They're in a better place. The worst advice ever. Yes, exactly. At least it wasn't worse, right? Yeah, right. At least it wasn't worse.

But yeah, I think too, you know, making sure that you rely on your community and find any support groups that you can. Oftentimes there are lots of them. There's an organization called Endwell and they do an annual conference and they post a lot of great things on their social media. So I think maybe just going and finding some positive people.

organizations that are constantly providing those resource might be the best because there's no one size fits all for anyone. So that'd be my recommendation. - That's what I find too. When you're missing a person, you have to find more people sometimes. Like the self-help books only go so far, but once you go to a group therapy, which sounds scary, I know friends, but then you're like, oh, I'm not alone.

My grief that I feel is so uniquely horrible is actually unfortunately maybe shared. And then you're not replacing the person you lost, but you're getting more people. And sometimes that can be super helpful. And I think it's easier than finding that it's normal. Yeah. You know, it's okay to not be happy all the time. It is sad. It's tragic. And you're going to have probably more sad days than happy days for a little bit. Yeah.

I think that can be hard for society to understand because we feel like we need to put on the space and, you know, we need to plan the funeral and, and,

hug everybody and be, you know, grateful for all the support, but it's, it's hard. And sometimes you just need to, to go through the hard, um, before you can get back to whatever is going to be your new normal. Cause it's probably not going to be the normal that you hope it's going to be. Yeah. Especially when your job only gives you like, what, three days of bereavement half the time. It's like, Oh, not enough time, not enough time.

Well, how can folks support you in your work? You're raising $2 million right now because, again, the fever dream is that our federal government is doing weird stuff and cutting grants and potentially messing with Medicaid. So we need to help you hit that $2 million goal. How can folks best help you?

Yeah, I think the big picture, like you just mentioned, is to make sure that everyone is staying vocal and sending those stories about how Medicaid and federal funding and nonprofits help make our world go round. But on our small level of the in-between to help the 300 people we're serving, financial contributions are obviously what pay for the building to stay in operation.

But if you're local, you can sign up to volunteer on our website. You can also look at our wish list no matter where you are. And you can order online or again, if you're local, you can drop stuff off. And I always tell people, we are just like your house, but time flies.

60. So toilet paper, Kleenex, coffee, milk, bacon, all the things you buy at the store, we just recommend throw a couple things in your cart if you can probably not eggs, those are super expensive. But, you know, throw a couple extra groceries in your cart and bring it over to the in between. And we'd also be happy to show you around and see what goes on inside the doors of our building.

And if you are even further out than that, you can also volunteer for that. No one dies alone volunteers. So just Google no one dies alone volunteer. And that could be something that you can do in your local community. And as a person who has sat with many people who have died, I'm going to tell you, it is not scary. It is, it's really important, good work. And I think it keeps you really in touch with just humanity and the way things go. And it shows you like what's really important and can make you feel really centered in a world that feels completely uncentered. There is a, there's,

there is not just what you're able to give to the person, but what that experience and being able to share that gives to you and helps fortify you as a human. So I strongly suggest that. And you get training, so don't worry. They're not just going to throw you in there and be like, okay, sit with this person while they die. Like you'll have

lots of training ahead of time so you'll be okay yeah and know that it's okay if it's not not for you we have many people that sit with someone and they say okay that is not what I thought it was going to be like I didn't know there was going to be bodily fluids or sounds and so I

I'm not sure what your local hospital or your local nonprofit would allow you to do, but at the in-between, we have dozens of other volunteer opportunities. So we say, how about you try reception or how about you try serving a meal? So yeah, don't be afraid to try. Chances are there's going to be something else you could help with. Sounds good. Jillian, thank you so much. Tell people your website again.

It's tibhospice.org. And that stands for the in between. Perfect. And we will link to that in the show notes for everybody. Jillian, thank you again for being here. I appreciate you so much. And I'm just wishing you all the best of luck with this new bigger facility. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. And thank you, V. Good luck with everything that you're helping with. And the political climate has you busy. You know it. I know. We'll see you later. Betches.