Candace Owens x Russell Brand | Candace Ep 206
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All right. We're going to just start now. You said you were extremely nervous. Nobody believes that. Yeah, I get nervous. I don't like to wait around. That's not true. It is true. Why would I say it? It's not like I'm saying, oh, guess what? I see visions of angels and they're giving me guidance. I'm saying I get nervous. No one would make that claim to make yourself seem or feel better, would you? What, like you think it's some sort of reverse modesty? Oh, I'm nervous because I'm so fragile and not at all vain. No, I just think that you're a famous actor.

You know, so I feel that you don't get nervous when there's cameras around. But maybe I'm wrong because this is the real you. It's probably easier to be somebody else. Actually, that was also annoying being someone else was annoying. I don't think there's anyone you can be where it's not ultimately annoying unless what you're actually doing is finding yourself in the constant living flow. What it is, is feeling like suspended. That's what I don't like. I don't like the sense of suspension. Purgatorial.

I like to be in the flow of it. So I feel like, and you know, that's difficult because when you are an actor, there's a continual tension between what's happening technically and what's happening on screen and that, and the power balance will be dependent on what type of director you have. Sometimes you have directors that are very, like obviously the,

There's a standard that has to be achieved with lighting and framing and cinematography, etc. But some people are very much like, no, I just want to see people affecting one another with words. I just want to see performances. And other people are like, really, like say someone like Kubrick, all he cares about is making sure that it's a molecular level, precisely what he envisaged. The vision is apparently so clear.

that he just needs to move people around through sort of a pre-imagined set of shadows and stations that you could foresee. That's the nature of, I suppose, Kubrick's genius. And me, I would like it that...

just everything, like, I've probably to my detriment gone, just film it, just film it and we'll work anything else out after. Like, oh look, my hand's in that shot. You know what I mean? That's a nightmare for someone. It's the wrong skin tone. We could pretend it's like, that it's Candice's hand. It's madness. It doesn't make sense. Oh no. What you doing? Hey, are you having a better time with your own economic model? Is it working better for you? Like,

Now, why did you pick that voice? Well, I just didn't. I think I do this character with my kids. Like, come on, man. Shouldn't we go to bed? Isn't it bedtime? Please, capitulate, you damn kids. Why don't you do what I ask you? You would be a very fun dad.

That's what I would say. Definitely. Yeah. Because you get to create a bunch of characters and that's pretty much what raising toddlers is. Raising children is a bunch of characters. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. There's a real cast of characters my kids encounter, make them the heroes of their own drama, bring forth who they are. You know what I think, Candice, the word parent and the word parentheses, parentheses like brackets, you're holding them. Don't

interfere with them, let them grow, let them be who they are, just keep enough space around them so the state doesn't get in there and turn them into little freaks or weirdos or their friends don't teach them some mad new vernacular of crap slang, turn them into little droogs.

You know what I would say is I feel that my Wikipedia page should be updated and so should your Wikipedia be updated to reflect the fact that I saved you from communism. I remember that day. Which made you a much better parent. Like your poor kids, one, they had this communist parent raising them and then I blew into England and rescued you.

You were an unwelcome presence in the home. There's been so much transformation since you were an old-fashioned commie. Now, hear me good, woman. What happened was, is I was...

and remain anti-establishment anti-establishment so I was ever like as in communism I think what we should do is give maximal power to the state to legislate you had the hammer and sickle flag it was waving I did have a hammer and sickle flag and I was dressed as Che Guevara and I was reading Das Kapital yes yes and I did have my own little gulag in the garden where I did I must say imprison intellectuals yes I did make them toil there I made them toil in Siberia but other

than that I had no affiliation with communism. No because really in a sense don't you think there is some source some divine force that's trying to express itself through you and isn't it our function to cleanse the channel that we may become clear. What was he doing by Chesterton's reckoning at least Saint Francis when he went into that

cave and burrowed downwards to the point where you burrow down enough and in the end if you were burrowing into the centre of the earth, this is Chesterton's image, that you would ultimately end up burrowing upward. At some inconceivable point you are no longer in descent, you are in ascent. St Francis, having been called by his own father a fool in court because St Francis was so in love with

Raising money for the church, he nicked his dad's textile, sold some off to repair a church wall. His father was a bit annoyed about that, dragged his boy through the courts. From the mere Francis, the ordinary buccaneer, cavalier, horseback riding, occasionally beheading, mad goon Francis becomes Saint Francis and says...

If I am a fool, as my father declares, let me be a fool in the court of Christ. Let me be a jester for our Lord. He just takes a peasant's brown robe and ties it up with a rope. Within five years, thousands of men are adorned with that uniform. Surely it is our job to become saints, Candice. Surely that's what we're supposed to do. And we may grab...

artifacts and archetypes from the culture and from deeper realms but we are on our way back home we are on our way to eternity so when you came round my house I remember you prancing you pranced you pranced around my podcast studio and oh everyone's just going to get on and we're going to have immigrants and everything's going to be okay I remember thinking even though I'm biometrically diametrically opposed to this woman in many many ways I see in her deep joy and I

like her. Even though I've just been speaking to a black academic in my country who I respect who said that Candice Owens is the black face of white racism. I thought, this is not what this woman is. She is deeper and more profound than that. She is doing something interesting. And also, we can't keep going on like finding...

legitimizing ways to not like one another. What would make it legitimate for me to not like a person? Well, if this were true, then I could suppose I could legitimately dislike them. It's our duty to love and it's our duty to become who he would have us be. But you know what? I think that actually I changed so much since that moment as well. And I agree with you. I very much agree with you. And I think more people are watching this show because of the changes that I've made because I was thinking in that vein.

this is the left, this is the right. And he is on the left and I am on the right. And then you sort of realize that actually we have a lot more in common and more of us are way more in the middle. And it's like these extremities don't actually mean anything. There's so, so few people that actually operate in that extreme. And that's why I never actually took you for a leftist because you were way too tolerant. I mean, we had so much fun. I didn't care. I actually had fun kind of dueling with you intellectually. And you'd say, but don't you

think this and eating whatever you were eating out of that little bowl of snacks you had while you just had me there for two and a half hours. Two and a half hours was it? It was fantastic. And people loved it. And it was like the first time where I checked the comment section and people were thrilled, like left and right were thrilled because they were so refreshed by people not sitting across from each other simply to hate each other.

And that's a problem that we have. That's a major problem that we have. But I will say that I'm tremendously optimistic because I think something is changing. I'm not sure what to attribute that change to, but culturally things are changing. My prayer and my faith is that Christ is on the move in our culture, that Christ has wearied of these false taxonomies of this left and right ideas born out of industrialization and mechanization and the

concomitant social movements that are no longer relevant as we stand on the precipice of the third great anthropological revolution technology technological revolution at scale that means that attention consciousness itself could be commanded in in previously inconceivable ways

But all things come from him. He, our father in heaven, that is the same a thousand years ago as he will be tomorrow. He is outside of time. And what I feel might be our challenge is for us to be messengers of this deep truth.

that the technology that currently exists can be used to create a kind of diaspora, a mass decentralization. There is no requirement for centralized institutions, either economic and private commercial or state bureaucratic, that there was 100 years ago or 500 years ago, that this is a time where you could be

be afforded a degree of autonomy, control and agency in the life of your family and of your community. And what excites me about that, Candice, is that we would be able to diffuse this constant polarity and this constant tension. If you want to sign off and sign out from the experiment of your nation, whether it's France,

or Romania or the UK or the United States, why oughtn't you? Why ought you be tethered to worldliness? Why do they want us to treat the state and the world as if it were a kind of religion? Why do they lay claim to the powers of the God that they deny even exist? They want your constant fealty. Today we believe this. It's a new doctrine. Today we have a new cast of saints that we want you to revere. All the while, man...

making the claim that it's ridiculous that we believe in the birth of the Son of God, the death of the Son of God for our sins and his resurrection that we may know eternal life. They invite us to believe in these detrimental, ridiculous faith-based systems. If you ask me, somewhat tawdry. They lack only the forgiveness and majesty of our glorious faith. You know, I have to force you to read this book at

It's in Tatter sitting next to me. I have a book club and we're reading Hollywood Babylon. Oh, God, what's going on over there? Fantastic book. Doofy Sleaze. Well, written by Kenneth Anger in the 60s and got banned from the United States. Why? Because he was a member of the occult and friends with Aleister Crowley and just basically told all the secrets of how they established Hollywood, which is not something that we often think about because Hollywood was always a thing.

and you came up in Hollywood. And one of the things that's really interesting about you that I covered on the show is that it seems to be the way, whether it's you, whether it's Justin Bieber, whether it's, you know, Kanye when he first, when you kind of

Go, OK, Hollywood actually is not fulfilling me and I need something else. And I'm kind of done being my own pagan god. And you start to turn to these themes that we are talking about, eternal truth. We start to turn to Christ. It seems like this isn't OK. No, no, no, no, no. They want you to exist within the me world.

myself, the selfishness. And then when you turn that off and you start to represent something truer to your audiences, suddenly the media turns on you. And this book really reflects that. And it's called Hollywood Babylon because he's telling you that that was, it was established as a sort of faith. They intentionally called the movie houses cathedrals. They were trying to mimic Catholicism by turning it on its head, getting people to worship the stars. Why did they call them Hollywood stars? They wanted people to worship stars. Wow, brilliant.

actually brilliant. So true. And he is totally demonic and occult. And the stuff that he brought forward, the author of this, Kenneth Anger, who, you know, contributed to these sort of

You know, because he was explaining how they really believed in sex magic and Hollywood Babylon, all of these people that established it. But he's telling the truth. These were his friends. And for this book to have been banned in America, which I still cannot comprehend how it was banned in America before they allowed it to be reprint and they removed certain passages from it. Fascinating story. You should read it because I think

Coming from Hollywood and seeing that and experiencing that, I feel like the media loved you. And then you found Christ and they were like, no, Russell Brands. No, he's terrible. Never mind. He's a really bad guy. Don't let him tell you anything that might supply your life with a bit more purpose and direction and meaning and true meaning.

Well, thank you. And in a sense, it's a flattering analysis because I reckon that my exiling from that particular little citadel owes much to blunt economics. But I would say also that that...

The scrutiny deployed in that book there seems, Candice, to me, absolutely 100% right. And there's nothing more appealing than being told that, yes, you're right. You are fantastic. Like a culture that will tell you that you're brilliant. Now, most people I know that have become entertainers, there are rare exceptions, have some grain in them of brilliance.

terrible, terrible self-doubt and terrible loathing. I mean, don't all of us as human beings, in fact, have that? Because understandably, we are fallen and we are broken and we can never be healed or whole alone, not without him, not without his sacrifice. Now, when you're in Hollywood and you're told, actually, no, there's nothing wrong with your infantile desires and your urges and your narcissism and your hedonism. They find ways of monitoring and maneuvering those ideas.

But it, in fact, is built upon, as you said rightly, paganism, the idea of being sexually attractive. I mean, I'm sort of struggling to, I caught a glimpse on my ex feed, though I'm reluctant to look too much at any of these platforms because it seems that there is some sort of semi-conscious desire within it to turn you all into a,

a porn mad denizen of a world of tension and fret. And it like, it's just like, he's an act of violence. He's an act of sex. Nevertheless, I saw on my feed that on the cover of Rolling Stone is a young woman who I'm assuming is a pop star called Sabrina. Now I don't know much about the culture anymore because, you know, it rejects me. I reject it. Like, and, but,

she's just sort of wearing like a porn outfit and stockings. And we're already in the sort of, we're deep into examining the objectification of women and what the consequences of that objectification might be. Outside of exploitation and abuse and criminality, all things that we all know and understand to be wrong, is the potential that environments that casually invite us to objectify one another might be, whether subtly or majorly,

contributing to the idea that we are all here to just take from one another and that we can indeed fulfill one another. And part of my own slow, weary journey

near tectonic growth has been the understanding that people cannot fulfill you, not just in obvious ways, like if you're sleeping around a bunch like I was for many years or having male friendships where people are primarily there to serve you like in one way or another, make you feel good or work for you in some way. The

Even with your own children and your own wife, if I'm not facing God first and foremost, I'll look to them unconsciously to make me feel better. I'll want my little children to cheer me up or my wife to protect me from this world. It's only when I...

confronted absolutely with the futility and hopelessness of that way of life, that I will finally in brokenness and humility accept that I do need saving and that I can't be saved by fame or money or sex or drugs or power or flattery or even by things that seem that they would have more value, duty, love, all of those things, unless undertaken in faith, unless undertaken through a love of him, will all

run dry eventually so like yes of course Hollywood like before I get ready for a little name drop here I was friends with David Lynch I was like you know he was big in transcendental meditation and I've always been curious about states of consciousness and ways of accessing the mystery of like you know I'm a drug addict I'm interested in mysticism always have been and I've

And I loved him. I thought he was a genuine artist and a brilliant man, a genius, in fact. And he said to me once, it's the light, Russell. Well, why are we in Los Angeles? What is it? He said, it's the light. The light is beautiful. Now you think about filmmaking, cinematography, the requirement for excellent natural light is absolutely paramount. And for him, such a purist, such a

clear artist who was absolutely dedicated to what he did. He wasn't there to pick up chicks or get high. He was in it because he wanted to tell stories about the nature of consciousness, the nature of dreams, the nature of the dynamics between a suppressed violence, the violence concealed behind domesticity, systems of conformity and control. The very fact that lynching has become an adjective tells you that this was a man who was telling stories in a sublime and brilliant way. And when he said that about

the light, it made me realize, or at least reflecting now I realize, that what it is is a place of false luminosity, false light. And what is Lucifer? The counterfeit, the emulator, the accuser, the great deceiver. The stories that a nation tells itself about itself form that nation's psyche and soul. You'll see that in the type of actors that become stars, the kind of stories that are told, the obvious pagan, the religious,

worship of godlike figures in the form of superheroes obviously and the ongoing battles between good and evil and the ways that those arguments are uh are handled so a figure like um lynch and a claim like that tells me that yes for geographical or even i don't know reasons of luminosity it became a place of significance but it it is intrigues but doesn't surprise me that long into the history of the institution of hollywood have been it has been a deceptive agenda we

all know that they have relationships with government institutions and organizations. We all know there's a global agenda, an imperative that plays out there. And whilst we can recognize something like Epstein Island is like a kind of, what do you want to say, a kind of ground zero uranium of sexual blackmail, across the whole culture, it seems all of us are being invited to participate in some way or another in shameful acts through pornography and hedonism or

sleaziness, stuff that's just the normalization of porn, the normalization of a cult that tells you that you can resolve everything by pursuing your desires, by serving yourself. And I suppose I'm very fortunate that through my own lack of

self-worth and my own longing but also my own industry and my own ambition and my own sense that there's something worth pursuing I got to be inside that organization for a while and I got to experience it and I got to know as Jim Carrey brilliantly said I wish everyone could know how facile how hollow how empty it is but also how people are captured there people aren't going to come out and go probably you know I saw your interviews with Harvey Weinstein like people aren't going to say look I'm

he probably did a bunch of stuff that was wrong but probably the fact is it was culturally normal what he did that's what I'm kind of guessing and that probably most famous men in Hollywood three four times a year make settlements for claims and it's an industry it's like it's become industrialized black male normalization of hedonism a peculiarity

Julia establishment that helps. In the people that observe it, it makes us feel, as I remember before I was in it, thinking, oh, I'm not good enough. Well, maybe I could live that life. Maybe I could be famous. Maybe I could be sleeping with lots of girls. Oh, that would be lovely. Wouldn't that be fantastic? And then when you do it, it's kind of empty and vapid and shallow and awful. Not to say there aren't brilliant and wonderful people there. I can think of a dozen marvellous people that I knew there. But its cultural impact is...

ultimately malign. It's like the COVID jab. Looking back, did it do more harm than good? Did you get it? No. Of course not. No, of course not. I mean, everyone was rolling up their sleeves and were marching. It was totally fine. I thought it was the strangest thing I've ever seen. It was a full global simulation. I felt like I was watching a

a show. I was so removed from it because I was already very awakened to, and I'm not just like anti-COVID vax, I'm anti-vax, full stop, my kids are not vaccinated. But fortunately, God blessed me by allowing me to be injured by a vaccine when I was 20. No way. And so I woke up pretty quickly and because then I researched, I was like, why did I even get this random vaccine? What were the side effects of that vaccine? Did it make you a racist? That's what happens. Yeah, I'm still suffering from these... You've got it quite bad. Yes, exactly. Adverse events.

The black face of white supremacism. Antisemitism. Side effects may include. And I got them all.

But I'm grateful for that experience. Well, no, no, but seriously, I think that is what happened. I was I went to get the Gardasil vaccine, knew nothing about it, just went to the doctor. The doctor said, you should get this. It prevents cancer. You just trust your doctor. It's just one of these things where you just go, well, a doctor would never do anything wrong. You don't think I think I was 19 years old when the shot came out. You would never at that time, unless you had been raised without vaccines, think anything other than doctors as like

their own kind of gods. Like if a doctor says it, it must be true. If a doctor is doing this, they're not motivated by profit, which they are, or the insurance companies, which they are, or the pharmaceutical companies, which they are, where they're provided all these incentives. But, you know, I marched in, got the shot, instantly had a mini seizure in the office. And if this was a three-part, this was a three-series shot,

And the doctors were just sort of like, you shouldn't you should discontinue this series. But then I realized I have no idea what I just put in my arm. Like what? Why is this happening? And then I researched and went into the statistics of what they were saying, what they were promising. And I just was very clear to me that everything was a lie. Like it was just a total simulation. And from that moment on, I was weary. I became a skeptic of vaccines. And the more I researched, when I

came time to have our first child, I was like, we are not vaccinating our child. Like I have looked into every vaccine and all of it is all of this illusion, this fear. And so I was very keen because Kennedy, he was the only source I had. If you were a mom and you didn't know, you know, information about this vaccine or like I was just interested in Gardasil, he had the only website, the only organization that was doing work that way. And he was catching a lot of heat for it. So it was it was very brave of him to do it.

Yes, isn't he brave? Children's health defence. Yeah, the children's health defence. And, you know, because I've spent and had the great privilege of spending some time around Secretary Kennedy, what I know is that he is a person that is willing to take risks and that he is guided by

where possible because all of us have many, many ambient threats to deal with, I'm sure, by the highest of ideals. I met some of the mums that were around him and you know the way that Bobby got involved with vaccines is like mums with kids with autism that they intuitively as mothers felt like,

that's come from when I had that procedure. Jenny McCarthy, bless her. Right. One of the first people to speak out on it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, don't you feel like when you become a parent, Candice, that there's like, there's something that you feel like, I don't feel like it's right to do this. Like your trust is challenged. Something sacred and powerful kicks in. You understand immediately your duty is to protect this child and you feel uneasy. You might do it if you're a record, if it's recommended or if you have, you know, I like you see, you describe the blessing of having a,

incursion that led you to be cynical about vaccines. For me, it was much more generalized. I don't trust authority. I've had so many encounters with authority where the people that are meant to be giving me information are lying. The people that are meant to be upholding the law are breaking it. The people that are meant to be making judgments are lying and are biased and are not at all objective. I don't know how that happens to me. I'm just some normal kid from great Essex in the south of England. Somehow, by the time I got to, I don't know, 20, 30, whatever, I knew that. I knew don't trust authority ever. I

unless it's sublime divinal for it in good luck working out where that is and when it's false and when it's real. So that's what informed my decision there, as well as some people being kind enough to explain to me the origins of many vaccines, the misnomers and misleading stories told about the successes of even some of the

more celebrated vaccines, polio, e.g. But like no one has made the sacrifices that he made. Robert Kennedy coming from that family, the successes he's had in environmental law, his personal brilliance and his willingness to put himself out there. And I would say like, even though obviously there is complexity with having this current administration and like any government, it seems to me there are shortcomings and challenges.

and failings and people obviously on what would have once been known as the left will be decrying almost everything that's happening now from tariffs to deportations to what's happening in the Middle East. But one thing I kind of sort of, I hold onto and cherish almost as if at the foot of the cross is, well, I know Bobby Kennedy is a good man and I know he's going to do the right thing. And then he wipes out 17 advisors, then he appoints Robert Malone. And then they make, you know, he is someone that I have no trouble believing in.

Yeah, you know, I think I worry for every person that goes into office because we know how sophisticated, going back to Epstein, how sophisticated these blackmail rings are. And, you know, it's my belief based on just things that I've read and learning about just

how infiltrated, how infiltrated we are. I'm talking about even at the university level. They are gathering intel on people on the basis of what schools they go to. You know, you think you're pledging a sorority and, you know, pledging a fraternity. And the next thing you know, they've held on to blackmail because they thought that you could be someone someday. Entire families that they are focused on because of their legacy, maybe the Kennedys. I find myself not certain that I can trust anyone once they get to D.C. that there isn't just a file ready. And like, hey, we know you did this when you were 16 years old. Sorry about that. But here's how you got to vote.

And to have some people who are just obviously blackmailed, I would say, people like Lindsey Graham, who just like, I've never seen someone, my personal belief, again, I have no evidence to that effect, but just the way he just dances for war, it's bizarre. It's just, he loves war so much that I'm like, okay, what do they have on you? This is just weird. Do you think there might be, aside from missiles, another phallic shaped object that Lindsey Graham is quite prone to that he's keen not to have in the public eye? I think there should be one.

war. Yes. A warhead. A thick, juicy warhead with uranium sputtering out all over my chops. War. War, I tell ya. I'd like to relax and dilate into a war. I'd like to reverse myself into a war. Sorry, what are we talking about again? Sorry, oh, it happened again.

again, Mom. I just spilled my muddle milk. Oh, no, the tummy worms escaped again, Mommy. And now I've just told Jesus another lie. Ah! The tummy tadpoles are loose. The tummy tadpoles are loose. So, in conclusion, if you could give more money to Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Lockheed, Modding, and Boeing, then no one need to know how I pass the evenings. Ha ha ha.

Well, that's exactly, you said it. You said everyone was thinking it and you said it. That was a hypothetical example. That was a hypothetical, hypothetical example. Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. That protects you from everything my lawyer says. We're talking about Lindsay Lohan, right? Lindsay Lohan, allegedly, or something, someone. But yes, it's so obvious.

And you're like, OK, clearly we know what people we know. But I would just kind of respect the person that came forward. And I think one day there will be the individual that says, hey, listen, I did this awful thing. You know, I was high on this and they got me on camera doing this. And I just want you guys to know that. And I can't consciously vote this way because I'm being blackmailed. I think all of D.C. is run by blackmail. So I don't have any faith in the system. Even when people go to D.C. that you believe in, something seems to happen when they get into the swamp and it's just awful.

I've seen it. People flip. People that you truly believe in. And so I've kind of removed myself from politics in many ways. And then you just lean into faith. It's the only thing that's real. That's what I'm doing. It's the only thing that's real. We can trust the Lord. We can trust him. Put our faith in him. Faith in him will cast out all fear.

He is our strength and our song. He has given us victory. I'm tired of leaning on my own understanding of reality. I'm tired of trying to work this out all the time. I'm tired of trying to understand why these things are happening and those things aren't happening and why people are fallible. You know, as one becomes more familiar and versed with Scripture candidates,

doesn't it all just make the most tremendous and obvious sense? We're broken, we're fallen, we find it hard to listen to God, we keep rebelling against God continually. God loves us, God wants us to return into his embrace and we find it impossible because we are attracted by the false light, by the false luminosity, by the glamour, by the

urges of the flesh, by their mental devilry and by worldliness. Even things that I thought would not make sense to me, you know, reading like the Old Testament, I thought like, you know, when I became Christian, I thought I'm not going to be delving into Lamentations and Jeremiah and try to make a good fist of Samuel.

But actually, like everything that I'm reading, it works simultaneously on a near mythic but historic level that in the same way that geometry, music and maths could be seen as a language that go beyond the parochial limitations of English.

English or whatever other patois you may happen to articulate in, but there's a deeper truth available in scripture if you will allow it in. Now, of course, anything can be utilized to leverage control, to oppress, to distract, to lie. And there's no question that the church in all of its sects and denominations has committed abominations, atrocities even in some cases. But I

But our Lord remains a luminous incandescent above and by the covenant of his blood, let me drown in his blood. Let me gorge on the Eucharist. I don't want to live my life in faith any different than I live my life as a drug addict. I will want to live absolutely perfect honesty, perfect truth, aspiring after it, knowing that I'm fallen, but knowing that it is done, that it is finished in his name. And there are such things as saints. And I understand that

Only the really sick people become saints, Candice, so I think both you and I are in with a shot.

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Right now, you'll get 20% off your first order at paleovalley.com slash Candice if you use code Candice at checkout. Again, that's paleovalley.com slash Candice, promo code Candice. I do want to stick on the topic of speaking of false light because I wanted to get your opinion on this. And you also just spoke about glamour and people that were attracted to these things. And I have just always been a little, I guess I should say,

I want to make sure I use the right word here. Good. That time you started paying attention to the language. I've been watching this for months now. I was unsure. Where's the guy with the moustache? That's what I want to know. I thought you were the guy with the moustache and the conspiracy theories. I'm supposed to be. Allegedly. We can warm up. We can warm up.

We could warm up. But I would say is that I was unsure. I was slow to the I love Elon Musk party. And this gets into I was also pregnant. I swear a woman's intuition goes up when they're pregnant. You get weird dreams. I'm sure your wife did when your wife was pregnant. It's very weird dreams, very specific dreams. I don't know. And you just feel a bit more connected. And there I just was.

slow to the Elon Musk welcome party. Grateful for what he did for Twitter, obviously. No-brainer. We really did almost lose Twitter. I'm going to call it Twitter because I can't say I X'd. Like when you send a tweet, it's still like I tweeted, right? So I'm going to say Twitter. But X. And I appreciated that. And then I kind of saw this...

And I would say like they kind of turned him into like a demigod, you know, and he could do no wrong. He's at the White House now his kids there and everyone's like applauding this. And I'm always always like, wait a second. Have we checked in on what his values are, like who this person actually is? Or are we just saying you had so much money that you could afford X and that's it. And that's all that's required to get into our good graces, which is wealth. And does that make us any better than the left? Yeah.

And the left, I would say, worships celebrities and worships Hollywood and like Taylor Swift writes a post. And so therefore they vote. Same thing, different side of the aisle, in my view, the way that I was looking at it. And then this blow up happens last week or the week before. And I was just wondering what your take was on that blow up as you're watching that from across the pond. What were you thinking about this kind of blowup?

I was watching Dr. Strangelove, the Kubrick movie about the advent of nuclear power and the impossible and improbable responsibility granted to military generals and presidents alike. And I was like, oh, my God, this is a great movie.

What Kubrick's genius, accompanied by that other great British genius, Peter Sellers, demonstrates so wonderfully is that even when dealing with Armageddon and the apocalypse, human beings are frail and fallen and broken. This is illustrated to great comic effect in that movie. Oh no, someone just has a bad day on the military base or comes up with a theory or notion and decides that they are going to let

loose nuclear warheads on Russia. And the story sort of unpacks how ridiculous it is that anyone would be granted that authority. It's a kind of anti-Oppenheimer, where Oppenheimer sort of studies from a kind of sort of earnest and intellectual perspective the morality of coming up with a weapon and what would you do to stop the Nazis? Is it okay to kill baby Hitler? Those kind of sort of parlor game intellectual musings about moral philosophy. What you get when you don't approach it seriously, but you promote it,

approach it comically, Candice, is Elon Musk is a brilliant man, a very brilliant fallen man. Donald Trump is the man clearly the world, inverted commas, needed for this time. Where I got to, even as you say, as a communist, is that my mistrust and loathing of neoliberal, I'm

marionettes and pretenders hiding behind faux morality who wear every single judgment you could tug a thread. Hillary Clinton shrill and outraged about the Qatari jet and yet the Clinton Foundation taking millions from the very same United Arab Emirate Nations.

It just makes you almost yawn at their lack of morality. Well, what I would say we're living in now is an age of a revival of nationalist populism to act as a bulwark against globalism. And it's as good a prophylactic as people are likely to come up with. Forgive the word. I know you're a Catholic.

And also, the other thing is a kind of, as you suggested in your question, the elevation of brilliant, but obviously limited because they are men, to positions of...

outrageous power. Now, I would any day take an Elon Musk over a Jeff Bezos or a Mark Zuckerberg based on the limited amount I know about any of them. But Elon Musk may be a great genius when it comes to technological innovation, marketing, the understanding of the requirement. It's a long, long portfolio of excellence that he has.

access to. But I would say that when people like Elon, not people like him, he's a unique and as I keep saying, brilliant man. When anyone has access to that amount of power, I would want to start looking at the structures of power themselves or the institutions themselves, because I don't think anybody is capable of yielding that much power, particularly with the way that the world operates now. Look at the revision that's taking place around figures that you just would have

irrefutably regarded as irreproachable geniuses. Churchill, a magnificent hero that almost burned himself on the altar of war. Martin Luther King, a person who had allowed himself to be consumed by the civil rights struggle. Gandhi, happy to be martyred for the freedom of India.

all broken, all flawed. Gandhi, oh, he slept in a bed with his nieces. Martin Luther King was having sex with his secretary. Winston Churchill was an alcoholic and overplayed his hand in Dresden to the detriment of the German people. Well, guess what? They're not perfect and perfection is not a standard that's ever going to be attained by any human being. So perhaps...

Look at how you institute systems. And if they're not a reflection of divine and holy values, you will come across the same flaws and failings that human beings always come across. Hubris, love of power, false idolatry. Scripture is full of people that for a moment have the holy hand, whether it's Saul or Solomon.

but then turn again to their own power. You or I, can we be confident, even with the limited power we possess through the screens that people watch us on now, that I won't fall again, that I'm not consumed by the fact that I feel like I'm being unfairly attacked by deep state authoritarian power, media conspiracy, albeit it's a gun I loaded through years of clumsy, foolish propaganda.

consensual promiscuity? How can I feel my human fear around those ideas and keep focused on my own fundamental irrelevant acceptors, how I may serve him? You, I know you have challenges.

In your life, you had an extraordinary ascent, brilliant relationships, brilliant alliances, some of which have not worked out. And you're a mother and a wife and a woman, and you're going to have to deal with your own fallibility. Thankfully, the one thing both you and I have elected to do is turn away from self where possible, albeit falteringly and failingly, and towards Christ and to focus on what we are told, not what we just deduce and make up. I'm told I'm...

I'm married. That means I'm married. That means I'm with my wife now. I'm with my wife when I'm walking down Bleeding Broadway in Nashville last night. My daughters are at my side and my son is in my arms and I'm with my wife. There's not a moment where I get to say, oh, it'd be nice to look at some pornography. It'd be nice to cash in on some female attention. Those days are long, long gone and good riddance.

But, you know, I sometimes hanker after outrageous power. In fact, just before everything kicked off in my country, I was thinking about running for mayor. There was a mayoral election in London. I was just starting to talk to people about it, whether or not I could get some sort of like, you know, populist pseudo celebrity sort of

rush to minimal local political power in London and some might argue that London could do with a populist mayor that's sensitive to the needs of working people aware of Britain's national identity and some of the challenges that city faces but that's

But that's not the way that it rolled out at that moment in time. And in a way, perhaps that's a great blessing because I'm a deeply fallible, flawed human being. I'm malleable and foolish and hubristic. And the best I can do is like our great teacher and leader, Paul, own that.

own that maybe, maybe in our weakness, he may be strong in us. Maybe if we're willing to be sacrificed on the cross, that he can be reborn in us. Maybe then we can be a vessel for his power, because if it's coming from Russell, it will end up being selfish and foolish and broken. And to know that is at least to know something. I think one of the things I struggle with, with a lot of these characters that are being kind of

put into the forefront throughout this administration, whether you're talking about Peter Thiel, who's very close to J.D. Vance, or you're talking about Elon Musk, who was there for a moment, is I've begun to view everyone through the lens of family. And if you think about Christ, when we say, okay, well, we're leaning towards Christ, you know, we're finding our faith, we're leaning into Christ. Well, what would be leaning into the Antichrist? What is Antichrist? Just kind of breaking that down. What is Antichrist? Self. Self.

anything that aspires to destroy or pervert the family unit, I would say is quickly behind it, right? Because there is to be Christ-like, you're talking about, I'm with my wife, I'm with my kids. I say the same thing about why I really appreciate Tucker Carlson. It's how he lives his life as he leads his family, right? My grandfather was the same way. I think if there's any reason why I turned out like I did and have the values that I have, it's because of my grandfather. My grandfather was like Lord and then family, you know, faith, family. And

I worry about this sort of AI automated future that I think that we're barreling towards, where we have these people that are interested in shaping the future of our countries, but to

To what end if they don't aspire to family, right? And this kind of Elon Musk impregnating so many women via IVF. That's weird to me. I just find that to be weird. Makes me uncomfortable and I can't explain it where I just don't want someone who thinks the future is us, I don't know, being robots. You know, is that really is that what we want? Have we stopped to consider what how these people are living their lives and what that actually means?

And so that's something that I worry about is is it just seems to me that there is this very intentional race towards an automated future. And I think.

A lot of these guys are playing a part in it. Sam Altman, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel. And because we view ourselves as left versus right. And so if somebody says something good about Trump, we're like, yeah. If somebody says, you know, something good about Kamala Harris, you're like, yeah, we're all in that. We don't necessarily stop and pause and say, OK, but actually, where do these people stand on Christ? And when I'm saying there is truth, where do these people stand on truth?

this issue, that issue? Are they anti-Christ or are they for Christ on these topics? And that might be where I find myself a bit of an orphan at the moment. I don't think you're an orphan. I think you're a beloved daughter on that basis. And I think it's an

Excellent tool. I was thinking about what Christ has said about marriage, and certainly I feel that scripturally a life without family is possible. He himself was a celibate single man, albeit a God man. And I feel that

In marriage, we can emulate the church's relationship as a whole with our spouse. And certainly I can see the many benefits of the institution of marriage. And I'm the privileged recipient of those benefits, thanks to my beloved wife, Laura.

I would say that your point about Christ or Antichrist as the spectrum upon which we are all moving is an accurate one and a good means of assessment. When people, as is customary and somewhat popular these days,

days make claims that the cultural legacy of Christianity is of value. I like the architecture or I like the morality or the idea that life has meaning and value and that we're sacred because we are made in his image, because we bear his hallmark, his molecular signature that when George Orwell describes a

boots stamping on the face of a human being forever as the ultimate dystopic image. He is describing the state's tendency and desire to scrub away God's signature across all life, across humankind and across nature.

I would say that the sort of Tower of Babel component that's within technological progressivism is a great cause for concern and consternation. Yet our Lord uses the image of the yoke, which would have been technology once, to be bound together with him, to walk his steps with him. His yoke is light.

The burden is not hard to carry. If all technology might be used like this yoke in the service of walking with our Lord, then Neuralink could be fantastic, then AI could be magnificent, then rocket ships could be glorious. But my sense is...

that from as long as there's been technology, the technology has almost by default ended up in the hands of the most powerful individuals and institutions and been utilized for them to maximize their power and to preserve their system. Any system, whether it's a human anatomy or a virus or global economics, has its own self-preservation as its utmost priority. Otherwise, obviously, its terminology is assured. So I would say that

this myth of progressivism under which we've long toiled which requires that we forget perhaps deep history forgotten and lost worlds that we may have once inhabited so that we can all toil labor and continue to worship under the illusion that it's never been like this before whether it's penicillin or tesla we're roaring onwards and now we know that a woman's place isn't in the home it's in the

workplace and you can do what you want and we're the gods of our own bodies and we're the gods of the vaccine and we're the gods of the molecules. You can snip off that and stitch up that and you can do this or that or whatever because you are God because there is no God. This idea that we're advancing somewhere, that there is a telos and that we're in control of it. But I believe to be the ultimate devil worship because what it has done is it's

posited that human rational power, the power of the individual and our collective power, I suppose, is democracy. The idea that a mandated mass is equivalent to a God. Is that what the proposition is? It is somehow superior to the divine authority of our

create a God, God the Father, our triune relational God, our God that sent his only son, the son that gives us the advocacy of the Holy Spirit, that that power can be usurped, that that power can be ignored, that that power can be emulated and replaced. And people make intellectual claims abundantly

independently and I don't feel like they fully know what they're saying and even that he says from the cross forgive them they know not what they do when the claim is made that we will solve disease that we will solve poverty that we'll occupy Mars that we'll do this we are advancing from a point that we should never have left we are marching forthright out of Eden not turning back to glance at the flaming sword I don't think we're advancing at all no I think that I think that's one of the great illusions and I wonder I when I take a look at the world today and I look at the

ancient civilizations that were bombing, the old church structures that were bombing. I see this very intentional darkening of mankind. I actually think, if you want to get into my conspiracies, that the Enlightenment was not an Enlightenment. I think it was the darkening of mankind. I think something happened. There was some sort of a great reset.

in about 1850. And if you control the textbooks and you control people know and they tell you, oh, well, it was so terrible and everybody was dying. We don't know. We have no idea. And I do think that there is we have removed ourselves from the source. Like we've removed ourselves from God in so many ways. And I mean, even when I realized and this is like a small thing that happened in my life. So this is totally anecdotal. But when I moved down here and Tennessee and I was like, OK, well, I want to start to to grow stuff like I'm from New York City. I want to learn to like grow vegetables and

and kind of went outside and realized I had no idea how to do that. I had no idea what agricultural zone I was in. I didn't know what could grow. And I said, and this is advanced civilization. I can't feed myself. I don't know how to grow and drop a seed. And then I, this, this older woman who's got like 26 grandchildren helped me. And she's like, you just put the seeds in the dirt and here's what grows here. And just this spiritual awakening that I had that I was an

absolute idiot. You know, for all the fancy things living in New York City, okay, if the electricity went out, they would die. They would all die. Okay? And they are the brightest minds. Oh, they're so bright. They're so smart. They have these cars, you know, these cars that can drive by themselves. Oh, so you're saying they can't drive? Like, you know, so the people...

We're going to get to a place where we don't know how to drive. We don't know how to grow our own food. We don't know how to take care of our own children. I mean, even the idea, and this is another thing I thought about recently, obviously, because I'm exclusively breastfeeding my infant. And I'm thinking to myself, I sent a text to Brett Cooper, a former colleague of mine, and I said to her, because she's pregnant, think about the fact that they created this environment where women are paying...

All right, going to the store and paying for formula, and this is now a household expense, right? Formula, because it's easier. You'll be able to get to work. I bet something that your body just produces for free. I mean, we're really quite dumb. If you spend a lot of time thinking about it,

We're idiots. Our grandparents were smarter than us. Think about this all the time. My grandfather could go outside. He knew every, you know, this grows here. That's poison. He could look at it and tell you if you had a burn, a cut. He knew what he could pull and fix. And we have none of that knowledge because we've given it to these gods, these doctors. And what do we get for it? We get vaccines. We get kids that have never been sicker. You're telling me that society has advanced and kids are allergic to oxygen? I mean, I'm being facetious a little bit, hyperbolic.

But these kids are allergic to everything. They're like peanuts and tree nuts. And now they can't allow C-nuts and D-nuts. And I'm going, OK, kids are allergic to everything.

And you're telling me that this is because there's been medical advancements. Women don't know how to feed their own children. And I stopped reading the Internet of telling me how to do. I'm like, why am I asking Internet like how often I should feed my infant? This is so weird. I'm in some weird simulation where we've let go of our our instinct, our divine instinct. And so, no, I actually think this is not progress. And I think that when you get these tech lords that come in and tell you how great it's going to be when you're colonized,

is going to be able to drive itself, I just think, no, thank you. Excellent. If you're describing degeneration, degeneration almost by definition is a decomposition down to the smallest unit. That's what happens when things degenerate. If you degenerate down to the level of the individual, you have no cohesion, you have no elders, you have no wise woman that's going to tell you how to

grow vegetables and to encourage you how to look after your children. No multi-generational relationships, no true family, no community. Ancestry is so important. Yes, you're quite right. You're quite right. This idea of dependency is important because we are 100% dependent on our Lord and creator. Again, St. Francis regarded dependency in its, I understand in its Latin root, I'm certainly obviously not a scholar of Latin, means scholarship.

hung upon and St Francis apparently would sometimes like a landscape artist stand upon his head to look at the vistas to get a new perspective so that he didn't so he began to question his environment so suddenly the masonry and tall towers of Assisi looked suddenly not solid and permanent but but

by the very fact of their weight hanging upside down, the Masonry and Towers looked suddenly fragile, elegant, delicate, capable of falling. If you've ever looked at Jupiter and his moons through a telescope, you will see that it looks so fragile out there. These vast entities are these great spatial objects hung upon the moment.

Once it would have been natural for us to depend entirely on God, to have moments of recognition, acknowledgement and prayer before every meal, before making love, before embarking on a business negotiation. Now, all things are profane, everything desacralized, everything cast out. And yet look at its results. We have created new gods. We are dependent now on the state. When back in the glorious days of my communism and anarchy that you disrupted that fateful day on that visit.

I was familiar with an anarchist saying that we have been de-skilled. There was a time where men would know how to fix their car, women know how to make food. And of course, I'm not saying that you have to be entirely defined by sexism in matters of that nature. But the idea, yes, that we don't know how to feed ourselves. They want to create false dependency. What is our natural state with our relationship with God? Dependency.

We are dependent on God. They want us dependent on them. You are right. We're one solar flare away, one power cut away from savagery, from the savagery that in a sense legitimizes their control. Not only that, Candice, like think of what is unconsciously being inculcated that your body isn't a sanctuary, a temple. Did you not know that your body is a temple?

Your body can feed your baby. Your body is perfect. You don't need to give that job to Nestle or some pharmaceutical company. And they encourage you to pollute it. You know, you're drinking and making it sexy, like, you know, wine culture for women, which is obviously aimed at like, oh, it's so classy for you to have a glass of wine. I mean, I'm just so conscious of this stuff now. And I'm telling you, mankind is growing increasingly incapable, increasingly inefficient. And at the same exact time that we're being told that

that we've never been more efficient. I'll give you another example, anecdotally. So I was going to this cafe every day when I lived in Philadelphia. And I, every single day, would drive, would put it where it was in my GPS, and I would drive about three miles to it. And I got about six months, and I realized, I don't know how to get to this cafe. I keep putting it into my ways, and I keep looking at the phone to drive to the cafe, but like, I've been doing this for three months. I should know how to get to the cafe. So one day, I set my phone away and tried to get to this cafe. And I had to, within two days, I learned how to get there. But I've become so reliant on the tech process

go left here, go right here. It's plausible for six months I've driven to a cafe and I don't know where it is on the map. That's getting dumber. Tech is making us dumber because we're becoming more and more reliant on tech, which then creates a problem when you have these tech lords who realize that. Like they're selling us. It's going to be easy. It's going to be so much easier. Just let ways do the thinking for you. Even AI, the answers have been so wrong. I played this game with my husband. He's like, well, this is supposed to be a really good AI. And I don't remember which one it was. They've all got their own names now. There's Grok, there's this guy, whatever.

And I said, well, let's ask it a question that we know the answer to. I mean, I have so many times it's been patently wrong about me. What like? Would you ask it? Well, so there was for whatever reason, when Grok first got started, it was convinced I was Jewish, which is quite hilarious. Sorry, that my husband, that my husband was Jewish. And they got this information because all it is, obviously, it's scraping information from the Internet. So that just means that it gives the same power to Jews.

the New York Post, and they say something is true, then it's true. So if you say, is Canisone anti-Semitic? Well, what has been published the most? Is it a yes or a no? Then they'll explain to you why it's true based on scraping the data from the people that have the most power to create the data in the first place. So it's nonsense. People were arguing with me online, telling me that my husband was Jewish. And I was going, but he's not. I mean, it's fine if he is, but he's not. And then at some point they realized and then the AI corrected it. But

But people will be relying on that and going, well, it's it's AI, so it can't be wrong. And it's like, no, it can be wrong. OK, if it had scraped all the data during covid about whether the vaccines were safe or whether the vaccines were going to keep you safe from covid, it was going to tell you, yes, you have to think like you have to do this by yourself. You cannot rely on technology. It's making us stupid. And I am it's one of the things that concerns me the most. It's like people can't even read.

They don't even have the attention span to sit down and read a book cover to cover anymore. Our children are becoming increasingly more dumb with every generation. And so I am like, I think the greatest generation was my granddad's generation. You know, I think we've kind of gotten really stupid. Yeah, but we needn't yield to it.

We need a yield. We can be fueled again. There is a revival happening. We are participating in the revival. Do you know how to grow your food? Even now. I'm going to go straight from here to a garden center. I'm going to buy myself a packet of carrots. I'm going to empty whatever sacks of fertilizer Lindsey Graham is carrying in his trousers by whatever means he prefers. And I have no opinion on what that might be. And I will grow me some carrots and I'll paint a missile-like shape on it. And I'll give it right back to Lindsey. And Lindsey, you can put that wherever you want to, darling. Yeah.

Have you ever hunted? But do you think about that? Like if you just turned off all the lights wherever you live in England, if they turn off all the electricity, like how long are you surviving? Listen, I am friends with Bear Grylls. Bear Grylls is a bold Christian who remained friends with me even as the very nation itself turned like a sort of a yawping praying mantis to devour one of its great sons, me in this instance. And I would say that I'm not good enough, not good enough. But listen to this. It's,

what they want to create the modalities are safety and convenience we're going to keep you safe and this is for your convenience these are the tools that the beast will use to lure you in it's not going to tell you I'm oppressing you because I'm a sort of a new bureaucratic Hitler I'm some fusion of

Orwell, Kafka and Huxley offering you sort of a comfortable uteral safety, the distraction of the SOMA and the unending bureaucracy and shifting rules and the lawfare and the confusion. Now, of course, it's not going to tell you that. They want, I believe, Candice, to turn the whole world into an airport full of checkpoint

points and measures that are continually undertaken rituals voided of meaning voided of ceremonial power continual hollow removal of shoes take this vaccine sign this declare your obedience to this only then when they have created an environment where sterility and sanitary conditions are above all else then then they can do conduct whatever final experimentation of

population reduction they're interested in because the truth is I believe that the epochs travelled thusly agricultural revolution man masters nature industrial revolution man masters matter technological revolution man masters attention and consciousness itself they want absolute control over attention and consciousness the problem is of course

that you have to multiply agriculture by industry because then you've got industrial agriculture. We're moving so far away from the time where you might say, do you know what? I'd like to check out this system. I'd like our own community where we can grow and rear our own food, trade where only necessary, use technology. Perhaps we'll use cryptocurrencies to parallel trade and parallel barter and use the miracle of modern contemporary technology to maximize the freedom of the individual that we may worship God, that we may live by God's principles.

not by the de facto false idols, mollocks and bales that they're setting up for us to worship. Because if you can have Airbnb and aggregate empty hotel rooms, and if you can have Uber and suddenly you can centrally coagulate and yet somehow democratize the taxi cab, all for the offshore profits of various companies that benefit for it,

then surely this very same technology could be used to run communities, to have true democracy. And if what people want is nationalism, they can have it. And if what they want is Sharia law, they can have it. And if what people want is LGBTQ plus gender fluidity, then they can have it. People can live now in communities according to their will. Me, I will follow the path of Christ, which includes non-judgment and wherever possible, trying my best in all my failing to move towards love and forgiveness and loving one another as he loved us. That means up to the point of death,

if required, up to the point of death. And this then might mean that we can diffuse some of this ongoing, never-ending, constant, catawalling, claptrap cacophony of argument that defines our culture these days and move into something like a solution which it seems like you're ready to do, that your family are ready to do, that my family are ready to do. Why do we want to fetishise the areas where we disagree? Why do we want to fetishise that? Actually,

Yeah, you know, I think one of the biggest cancers to society, and I say this as a former feminist, you know, when I was young, of course, I think most people when they're younger on the left, and they're not going to be able to do that.

I was a feminist because of whatever I was learning in school that caught me up in that feminist simulation. And now that I'm a mother and it, I think it's just quite evil. It's like, it's the thing that gives the women, that gives women the most clarity, the most perspective, the most wisdom, the happiness of the family unit. And,

and you're being told, nope, nope, you got to compete with man. You don't want to have children. Suspend children for as long as possible. Take all of these horrible, toxic birth control pills because, you know, you need to have control over your body because men don't have to get pregnant. And when I reflect on that, I just think this is such an intentional evil. This is not by accident. You know, this is when I talk about these elements of

Antichrist, right? What are we talking about here? You're telling a woman, you know, she's got to compete with her own. She's got to be at war with her own biology, you know, in order to stick it to the man. She's got to be at war with her own biology. And at the same time, you're telling men that they have to act like women, which is incredible. You're telling women to act like men while you're saying to men,

being masculine is toxic. It's toxic masculinity, these terms that get you to reject your nature and anything that is at war with nature. It's necessarily, of course, at war with God. And so I think deeply about that. And there are so many things that I've done since I'm saying really the last six years that I've done because I recognize how wrong my prior perspectives were. I mean, even like going and learning how to hunt in Africa, the importance of actually catching your own food, like, yeah,

You must do this. You must do this at one point, even if you don't keep this up.

how sacred that process is and how it brings you so much closer. I don't even shop at the grocery store anymore. I go to the farmer's market. There's something that is more spiritual about that experience of knowing the farmers and the ranchers. And then when I see how we're all being driven and we're told, well, this is for your convenience. This experience is for your convenience. The grocery store is for your convenience. And no, I think it's very intentional and it's pulling us away from

I mean, there's just the spirit, the spirit of Christ. What do we do for, say, women that will find being a mother difficult? Because obviously it is very difficult. It is difficult. And how do we then afford that? Or what about women that don't feel that that's their identity or their role? How do we create a culture that accommodates lovingly the variety within these general categories? You know, it's really interesting. So I've yet, of course, I've met tons of women who say, I don't want to have kids. I want to have kids. And then

typically what happens, I would say for the overwhelming majority of them is they hit about 28 years old and biology just comes online. Like when they, when they, uh, speak about suddenly a woman realizes she's looking at a baby and they've gotten a lot cuter. Something happens biologically in your mid twenties where that changes. Um,

But I think for the women that that doesn't change for, the first question I have is like, what birth control are you on? Because there have been all these studies that show because what are you doing when you're when you're on birth control? You're stopping your body from going through this natural process. You're becoming something other. It's like it's other than what you would feel naturally if you were not loaded up with all of these pills. It's a natural thing for women to go. I just don't want to have kids. It's a natural for a man.

procreation is the most natural thing in the world. What are we doing here? Right. If we're not procreating. And so something's gone wrong, I think. And then for the very few, and I mean, I've maybe met one person in my life and it's truly because of trauma that they suffered, that they don't want to procreate. It has more to do with, I think I'm going to become this, which I think a lot of people go through. Am I going to be like my mother, like my father? Why didn't my mother want me? I'm, I was adopted, whatever that is. That's typically, like I said, a trauma that needs to be resolved. Um,

And I don't push on anyone because everyone's on their own journey. I just know what happens on the other end of that. The women, you get these examples like Chelsea Handler, who wrote a book about how funny it was when she got all of these abortions. And I genuinely feel so sad for her where she now openly speaks about how she's on all of these anxiety pills and trying to find meaning in her life. And meaning was given to her twice. And you wrote a whole book about rejecting that.

you know, rejecting that meaning. And so I feel, I feel very sad for people like that because then I think, what do you fill that cup up with? And that's not to say, of course, many people are struggling with fertility issues, but they want, they aspire to family. It's so natural to want to procreate. So when you find somebody that doesn't, I just go, okay,

What's going on here? I have a lot of questions and not up for me to answer those questions or to pry any further. But I think it's important for people with families to speak out on the gift of it. And yes, you're tired. It's exhausting. And I barely slept last night. You know, I've got an infant. But that exhaustion, the difference between going behind and sitting behind a computer and working for the man and because your infant is crying because you're the only thing that makes sense to him, like that's

I hope you realize how beautiful that exhaustion is. There's such beauty in parenting that you can't really describe to people until they get there.

Yes, we have abandoned so much. It's like we have willingly taken on the manacles and shackles of worldliness, being told that it somehow represents our freedom. When laying upon the earth, as it says in the Gnostic and non-canonical gospel of Thomas is the kingdom of heaven, that it is available to us. And that isn't the same as a

kind of bland homogeneity, that there are a variety of ways that a woman might be a mother or a man might be a father or elect not to follow that path at all. But it is nice to know that we're not living in a postmodern relativistic world where anything can be true and that you might decide on this truth or that identity, that there is a purpose, a teleology, that there is a force, a cradle, a holding, a heralding that's taking place. And certainly my personal experience is it's becoming more

a father have been, oh right, like that mad delusion that I toiled under that what I am and what I want is the most important thing in the world. And whether that means that I've got to become famous or own a bunch of money or control what other people think about me or make people laugh the whole time. I mean, it's kind of difficult to shake off that programming entirely. And I revert to it sometimes. I'm selfish a thousand times a day, I'm sure.

But what I at least have now is an understanding that there is a path, that there is a way that appears as we walk it through him. That if you wear his yoke, if you walk alongside him, if in the moment, moment to moment, you seek first the kingdom of heaven, then righteousness is given to you. That I can be a father to my son and to my daughters and I can be faithful.

husband to my wife I have some purpose here here in the infinite and the unknowable why would you accept their gods why would you accept their gods of consuming how come what are people doing are we waiting for our last gasp before going oh my god I just spent my whole life worshipping the sort of illusion of who I thought I was or what I was supposed to be doing

when it's all here abundantly, it's not to say that it's not frightening and fraught with trepidation and even the just sort of mundane business of being the father of Mabel and Peggy and Herbie is sometimes just an exhausting weight, an exhausting weight. But usually there's some lesson in it, there's some part of myself that I need to let go of, some selfish thing that I'm holding on to that needs to be relinquished for me to be the man they need me to be.

Yeah, men need to lead households for a reason. I mean, the changes in my husband from when we got engaged to when we had our children is just incredible. You can't even...

I couldn't even find the words to describe it. I think just the weight of realizing like I'm a father. I think men need that weight of I am a father. Think about like that's like incredible. And now my actions are going to impact this child. And especially when the children kind of come into their own and they understand like that you're their father because they at least I have three boys and they think that like my father.

And that weight of that, of, well, your children think you are just perfect and you're Superman, you're this and everything's fantastic. You need that. You need that weight to push you to be a better person, I think. And that's what I think is so important.

And so it scares me when people say, I don't want children. I don't want family. Even if people who say, I don't want children, you don't want family. You don't want a husband. You don't want somebody else to be accountable to. That's what, what does that say about you? You don't want to be, you want to be accountable to nothing and no one but yourself.

probably not on the best trajectory. It might be the equivalent of trusting Nestle milk over your own breast milk, that you sort of can condition people into believing all sorts of things. The fitness revolution is happening in America and people everywhere are making fitness a priority again.

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That's 800-795-1210. Again, that's 800-795-1210. Or simply visit AmericanFinancing.net slash Owens. Again, that's AmericanFinancing.net slash Owens. I want to ask you a few things if I may even though it's your podcast. Am I allowed to? Yeah, of course. How come you've gotten more involved in like celebrity type stuff, you know, like some of the big stories that I've seen you talk about and I'm fascinated by your work and I admire it and admire the way you conduct yourself.

is like say something like Blake Lively. I don't know even what that means, Blake Lively. And say something like, I obviously know what Justin Bieber is because I like Justin Bieber. I feel for him. I feel like in a way he's the first ultra-modern celebrity coming out of YouTube, just being sort of latched and parasited and pulled apart. And he's clearly going through something sort of profound and powerful. And I sort of pray for him and pray that he gets the protection, Lord, that he evidently needs. Why is it that you've gotten more interest in celebrity stuff?

And how is it, like, I like it when you do these investigative things. How is it that you sort of, forgive the wording, really get yourself into, get your teeth into Bridget Macron's cock or something? How is it that those stories sort of capture your attention? And what is this sort of shift in you? I know that's a somewhat political story and it sort of pertains perhaps to globalist blackmail and those kind of things, but the celebrity ones, maybe you'll explain that for me. Yeah, well, so there's a couple of things about the celebrity ones. The first thing is, you know,

I want people to wake up to what Hollywood actually is. Right. So when you see people like Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively and oh, it's so glamorous and it's perfect. And then you get this person who just drops all of the text messages and the plotting and, you know, the narcissism. It's important for people to see that, you know, to to recognize, if you will, just who these people are.

who these people actually are versus what... Don't hold them up as moral icons. Yeah, correct. What is it? Blake Lively's had an affair or Ryan Reynolds had an affair? No, gosh, I don't know anything. That's incredible. No. No, they just kind of... I've been trying to avoid it. They just tried to kick a puppy. I mean, she was doing a movie, signed on to do a movie. The guy, Justin Baldoni, was a major fan of hers, loved hers. He was...

I mean, self-flagellating to get this woman on his film. He cared deeply about the book to bring it to life. And he wasn't obviously an A-lister. I had never heard his name before this. Sorry. And yeah, I guess for whatever evil reason, Blake and Ryan wanted to take over his whole little film production and how they orchestrated this with their star power, like manipulating them. Like, we're friends with Taylor Swift. We'll do this. We'll do that. Reading it was quite stunning as a first thing. And it provided a

an opportunity for us to really say this is what Hollywood is like behind the scenes you'll never see this this closely again the other element was this was how she tried to do it was with this fake you know she came out and plotted with the New York Times to come up with the story that he had you know sexually harassed her on set well unbeknownst to her she said you know this we were filming this scene but there was no audio unbeknownst to her there was audio when they were running this so he then dropped the audio

And she just lied. I mean, it's just crazy that she just literally to take this guy down was going to just me too him for funsies. And he's like, if you go through his Instagram, he's literally like the nicest. He's just like, how can I be nicer to women? Going back and examining myself, he's got this beautiful little family. And why him? I don't know, because he was weak and they could do it. And so what scares me about that is that I have three sons. So I'm very invested in cases about the me too. And that kind of attaches why I'm interested in the Harvey Weinstein case, even though Harvey...

Harvey Weinstein was definitively immoral. Cheat on his wife and stands for did a lot of things that stand against what I believe in. But he didn't rape those girls. There's no question in my mind. He didn't rape these girls. You read the emails. It's crazy. This was what it is. Tale as old as time. I've got power. You're sexy. What's the trade going on here? And they wanted parts. And then when their careers didn't take off and it became became, you know,

advantageous for them to play the victim, they did it. I don't like the Me Too movement. Okay? If you want to be a prostitute, be a prostitute. But don't renege on that deal when you don't become the next Angelina Jolie.

And so the Me Too issue is very important for me as a mother to three sons. There has to be justice for men. You can't just call a man a rapist or pretend that you were sexually assaulted because you want something, whether that's money, success, or to write your own consciousness, which I think in the

the example of Harvey Weinstein, you know, someone said to me, if he had looked like Brad Pitt, they probably would have been fine with it. But they kind of were like, I'm doing this thing. I'm sleeping with Harvey Weinstein. What do I get in return? And they got nothing in return for it. So I don't like these things. And so the Blake Lively case is a mixture of the Me Too movement and also just being able to shine a light on Hollywood Babylon. You don't like phony morality. That's it, isn't it? It's like when people are pretending to be moral and there is no morality. Well, obviously, I've got some sort of personal investment because I've

as you obviously were, because thanks for sticking up for me, being accused of untrue, really serious sex crimes. I suppose I can't go into it with too much detail and you've not asked me to, but the fact of the matter is that I...

recognize that my behavior was morally you know you shouldn't be sleeping around if you're certainly if you're a really successful person it's really easy to sleep with women and there is a power imbalance there that a man of God would be wise to and would not exploit but that I think is very different from overriding people's will charm and

fame are ways in which people's will is directed. Yeah. And... Yeah. It was all the time. They just, you know... And I grew up with these women. I was working in New York. People see a celebrity. They flock to that celebrity. Women are willing to... Just so they can say, I slept with Leonardo DiCaprio and I slept with Russell Brand. I know what it means to be a woman. And by the way, that is...

That is an exchange. It's a power that women have. Right. Beauty is what is the story tells over and over again. Men will lose everything because of a beautiful woman. And people are learning that lesson the hard way. You know, this is the Helen of Troy. Let's launch the thousand ships for this woman.

And so men are flawed when they see beautiful women and women consciously know that they go into these situations knowing what they're doing. And in reviewing the Harvey Weinstein situation, it was challenging for me because I assumed he was guilty. Yeah, because there was so much media coverage. I'm like, well, there has to be some. There's so many women were speaking out. And then when I actually got down into it and looked into it, I was going, there's no way.

They convicted him on this. So they have all of these emails. You got raped and then for five years just kept going to see a rapist and emailing him and saying, I love you and da-da-da-da. It's like, come on. It's defying common sense here. And so I'm sickened by it. And the fact that Gloria Allred is at the center of it, I think Michael Jackson told the truth about her. He was... What did he say? Well, he was very much... He named names, including Rabbi Shmuley, strangely enough, and very much implied that this was a gang that was operating. And...

We'll never know. Beyond that, he had a list of six people that he had had issues with and Gloria Allred was on it. And I think that woman is a viper. And and, you know, she should know that hell is an eternity. And so your wins here, you think you're taking down people, branding people as rapists, sexual accusers that you can get money and more power for yourself.

you will meet your maker one day too. So even when you're talking about stuff that's somewhat celebrity oriented and say scintillating, you're looking at what

false morality underlies it and how it's exploitative and where the power is in it and the way that new morality is often masking itself as virtuous when underneath it. Yeah, I suppose, alright, so one of the things that became really obvious in COVID, this is a thing I've thought about again lately, is what

that underwrites the idea of massive sanctions during COVID, get in your house six feet apart, wear a mask, take the vaccine, is human life is sacred and anything we can do to protect human life, we must do. And it's only when you reflect on how those are not the values that the culture sets us up

sets itself up by or abides by that you realize hang on that can't have been true there must have been another reason they were also saying like you know let your grandma die alone so it's anti-family okay it doesn't stay away from your family it's dangerous tell on your neighbors you know like no sense of community and we can keep you alive we are man and we can keep you alive so all you have to do is turn on your screens and we'll tell you what to do and hop on one foot at the grocery store and we'll keep you alive

What is it? It's antichrist. That's why I was just like, no. Didn't wear a mask. I hung out with my family and friends. I'm not going down that way. Like, I am just... To me, I will stand against that sort of authority because I can see things like that. And people were putting...

Dr. Fauci signs in their yard. I mean, like worshiping this man in a way that was terrifying and willing to call and tell on their neighbors and willing to allow their parents and their children to die alone in a hospital for fear that you might catch a virus, an invisible virus. Um,

and willing to roll up their sleeves to submit their bodies. I mean, there was an excellent article because George gets the Spectator UK. The Spectator UK is very good. And I wish I could find it. I know it was written by a woman and she basically said this bears all of the markers of a religion.

Right. You know, there's a they're sacrificing. They're doing this. They're doing that. They're they even have what they're wearing. Like it's on a yarmulke. They're wearing the mask. It's amazing. It was a great read. I should find that article. George will have it upstairs somewhere. I was like, this is fantastic. You should keep this. Secularism is a religion. I suppose if you create a culture where people are not willing to die and kill for what they believe in, but are willing to be herded in.

unskilled from one socially appointed ritual or right to another consuming waiting to die then that's you what you have is a kind of a hive of manageable individuals rather than equipped awakened men and women that know how to hunt know how to feed themselves know how to fight know how to protect themselves and one another and

and believe ultimately in the eternal truth. Recognize we're here temporarily. We're going to die. So we're not going to spend all our time here just trying to cling on to it, making it depending on that which is temporary instead of rightly depending upon that which is eternal. The first thing you have to do is dismiss the idea. There is no God. There is no Christ. What we have is our religion.

Our faith, our orthodoxy. And that's why Sam Harris lost his mind during COVID because he's a committed atheist. He tours around the world speaking about atheism and debating people. And this is why God is not real. And so when he thought he could die and this was it, he lost his mind.

Lost his marbles. He's like he was in a fragile mental state, realized the idea of dying for an atheist. Right. And so he was willing to submit everything to the state. He was telling everybody, do this, do this, do that. This is how we're all going to stay alive. It's scary. You know, it's it's it.

And by the way, there is no such thing as an atheist, obviously. And Sam Harris showed us that there's no such thing as an atheist because he joined the Church of COVID in four seconds. You know, he replaced his God with the authority of the state and participated. Everybody, like, religion is natural, right? And so if you're going to tell me that somebody doesn't believe in God...

Tell me who it is and I'll show you who their God is. Right. I mean, why do you think you have these like protesters, vegan protesters, the things that they're willing to do, right, to make a statement that people shouldn't be hunting? And you go, OK, so that's your that's your faith. Everybody has a faith and that's yours. So life is sacred there because it's a connection to something eternal and divine. Yeah, you can't have anything. All there is is nihilism.

People misunderstand the argument against atheism. People seem to think that what the claim of religion is, is that, oh, you think that without God, I can't have ethics and morals. It's like, no, without God, you can't claim that your morals or ethics are based on anything other than what you think. And lo and behold...

look how they change the left used to believe this now they believe that they used to believe in free speech now they don't believe in free speech the right used to believe in this but now they don't because you can't make gods of man you can't create permanent you can't create false idols you can't make a god with your own hands god is here all pervading ever present the very thing that you use to deduce there isn't a god is god your sentience your awareness your participation in eternity

the fact that you live at the altar of the present moment, that is God in real live action right now. And when you use that facility, that great gift of divinity, that divine spark and flow, that living water to denounce and deny God's own existence, you are participating in false idolatry and devil worship. Without God, you can't make a claim for animal rights, for women's rights, for the environment, for anything, because nothing means anything. There is no meaning other than that which we derive from the observation of patterns and the very fact that they're

are patterns is a further indication of the hallmark of God because otherwise why would you recognise mathematics or music or geometry what would these things be across the infinite blur what would these patterns amount to there is no argument against it

And this is a revival. I think we're in one. We are. And that's why I'm actually against psychiatry. And I don't know if you've ever gone down the Sigmund Freud rabbit hole. If you haven't, you should. What was it? Modern psychology. Coke and mummy. Give us a line. Mummy's looking sexy. Oh, it's so much worse and it's so much darker. Your mum does look sexy if you do enough coke. Oh my God! I think I would have sex with my mummy!

mother well stop taking cocaine addiction was the least of it was the least of it really yeah it really was it's there it was usually what about Jung well I haven't read anything about him but I know that he kind of departed from him archetypal cartography there is a sublime an inaccessible great mystery well that is accessible actually it's permeating everything but Freud what the cocaine and mummies looking hot under the pinny that's just the beginning and just like you know covering child

for all of his homies that were pedophiles. Sure. 1000% real, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Discovered in the Freud archives by the director. And then he tried to ring the bell and the psychiatric community was like, you must not do this. This is going to ruin everything. It's going to show that like we're just all frauds and we're making stuff up because we want to actually have, we see ourselves as gods and we want to have access to people by telling them what their selves should be. I think it's, you know, you go to psychology and I know it works for some people in therapy, but it's not

But a lot of times it's all about you, you, you, you, you, this self. And I'm sure you can come across a good psychologist and a good therapist. But more often than not, a lot of the ills that we have in society today are because people are constantly being validated. Validated across from the psychologist. And this is who you are. This is what you are. And that's how we ended up with transgenderism. And you can actually be 20 different selves if you want. And there's no truth. Everything's subjective. But I had wondered with this struggle before.

that, because I think it conflicts. I think modern psychology conflicts with Christ because it was intended to conflict with Christ. If you get into what Sigmund Freud believed in. But I wonder if that was kind of the struggle that Jordan Peterson was having with committing to Christ. It's like, wait, because psychology tells me that

I'm able to comprehend. And I would love to ask him this question. You know, I'm able to comprehend the mind. I am my own God. I'm in control. I would imagine that a psychiatrist or a psychologist would really struggle to submit themselves. Well, you know, it isn't obvious to me at all, Candice, that that God isn't real. Absolutely. I mean, of course. Yeah. I mean, really good. I started to feel like it was being disrespectful to him because I do.

This is one of the things that I'm thinking. In this space that we occupy where we have these voices and this access, where you're doing so incredibly well, where you're so potently brave and brilliant, where you're such an example of all that is wonderful and wise and bold and sometimes capricious in the feminine, that I wonder, Candice, if we can...

to deliberately participate in the unity of his church, in love. I was told that we need truth. In fact, in the Ephesians prayer, the belt of truth has to go on first. We have to gird ourselves in truth before we receive the grace of the breastplate of righteousness, before the good news can be on our feet and the shield on our arm and the sword of the spirit in our hand and the helmet of salvation that can protect us from nefarious thoughts,

I wonder how we can be in this space that derives so much from conflict and argument and not lean into it, you know, like the spats and the rivalry. I don't think it's rival. I think it's what I'm hitting up on there is actually something that you and I were just talking about, how difficult it is to submit full stop. No matter who you are, how difficult it is to submit. Man versus self is the most difficult struggle.

Right. And that's why I thought about how interesting it is. Like this is the struggle. It's versus your own mind. Right. And so I think that entire field is saying, well, you now comprehend the mind. You can't ever comprehend the mind. You can't ever comprehend my mind. It's constantly having to check yourself and check your ego and submit. And and so I'm thinking about it more philosophically of like this. It's it is a struggle to accept that you are.

kind of nothing you know in a way you know you're kind of yeah that's hard it's a tough pill for anyone to struggle that's why I said I've been working so hard look at all these things I've done yeah and I and that's why I think it's like you but I was in Sarah Marshall Sarah Marshall but

But that is actually what brings, I think, what could bring everyone together. It's like we're all so hung up on that ego and believing in our title, actor, PhD, doctor, I mean, whatever it is. Yeah.

graduated from Harvard, Oxford, whatever it is. It's very hard. And especially in this matrix where we give out accolades for those things. Like you are an A-list actor. You even have lists now. A-list, B-list, C-list actor. Which one are you? Are you D-list? Are you, you know, Meghan Markle's a D-list, they say. And this person's this.

I'm not in the alphabet anymore. I'm in hieroglyphs. It's like a drawing of a bloke with a bird's head. It's still A-list. People just love yourself. I hope so. You're still A-list, but this is the point. And I think it's hard for us, especially, I don't know, just coming out of what...

Did you go to university? Did you get a degree? We're constantly looking for these kind of meaningless things to tell us. Hey, if you ain't read The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis yet, you should read it because it seems that the struggle that we have in embracing and entering heaven is our unwillingness to relinquish our attachments to our human identity in just the manner that you're describing. C.S. Lewis describes an imaginary journey from hell, which is a grey, dreary place, actually, rather than spectacularly horrific. They go to heaven and everything there is sort of

and like it's almost like you would not more ethereal. Brilliant authorial choice by C.S. Lewis. Everything is denser and stronger and harder. They encounter entities and angels there as well as the other denizens of this hellish region that he describes the bus journey from and the arrival in heaven. And many people can't...

anyone, they're all invited to be in heaven. Come, come to heaven, come and be in heaven. But people are like, no, I'm not letting go of that. They're like sort of caught up in their relationship. Sometimes they meet people that they knew on earth. They're like, yeah, I know, but I loved you. Everyone's willing to relinquish and enter into paradise. The obstacle to paradise is our unwillingness precisely to let go of that identity that we've got an

alter and on it might be personal accolade or some form of personal identification or identity and if you can't let go of that then you're in trouble that's why isn't identity politics ridiculous because instead of saying you are important you're beautiful you're perfect yes you are valuable

But not because of some temporary characteristic because of the vessel you inhabit. You're divine and important because you are made in the image of your creator and you're part of this family and you're perfect and you are loved and you are forgiven. Come, come in, come in. No, I'm staying here. I want to stay here. I was in Sarah Marshall. Like clinging on to some crap trinket. We all do it and we all do it. And that's kind of the point. And I think like we have to, you have to kind of experience that.

I always say, you've got to recognize that you suck a little bit. That's why I love having sisters, because they just keep me humble. Really? Oh, my sisters, yeah. We make fun of each other all the time. We don't take ourselves so seriously. And toddlers will especially keep you checked. If you think that you're anything, hang out with some toddlers. They say everything that's on their mind. The first thing that's on their mind about how you look, this, that.

Yeah, they like to pick something off you, don't they, a toddler? Yeah. Like if you've got something on you, they'll pick that off. And actually something I meant to text you was somebody had commented when I had covered your situation in the UK and said that they thanked you for their...

actually said it was her daughter. I'll send you I actually screenshot it. I forgot to hit send. But like basically her daughter owed her sobriety to you. And I thought that was of everything that could have been said about you. Like, oh, I love him in this love. And I was like, this is like such a beautiful thing that she was sharing the story in a very long comment about how her daughter just really struggled. And then like, I don't know why. I don't know if you maybe if she watched a podcast, she wasn't clear on what it was, but she owed her sobriety to you. And she said that she saw you at like

she was in the same, because you did the 12, I think you, 12 step program, whatever it is. And something that you said or did there completely changed her life. And I was like, this is the most beautiful thing I've ever read. And I don't know why I didn't hit send. I think I have ADHD or something. But I screenshot it. So I have it in my phone. I'll give it to you. It might be that vaccine injury you've got making you forgetful. I was like, this is so beautiful, but I didn't send it. I didn't mind, moved on now. But there are a lot of people that said that in the comments about you. And I think that's the highest compliment that somebody can, I think, can give you. And I'm wondering,

How did you, by the way, get sober? Like, what was the thing that, how long have you been sober for, by the way? 22 and a half years. And I got sober because it got so desperate. In fact, I'm an idiot. The only way I do anything, the only way I ever improve myself is through absolute desperation and total breaking point.

At breaking point, I will stop drinking and taking drugs. I will surrender to Christ if there is enough external pressure. If I'm literally crucified, if I'm forced to recognize that my identity is temporary, transient and impermanent, I can't look after the most important things in my life like my son and my son's well-being and his medical. He had heart surgery when he was just born and it just exposed me to the limitations of my

power which are narrow how ridiculous to think that I'm important how ridiculous to think that I'm like a god how ridiculous to think that there's any accolade that anyone could accrue or acquire that would mean anything at all so I was lucky enough to meet people that knew that someone like me could never take that

another drink or ever do drugs. And the fact is, is that most people that drink and take drugs addictively, Candice, are indeed looking for God, are indeed looking for a spiritual solution. And the 12-step solution is a spiritual solution. It focuses not on the substance, actually, but on the self. It tells you you're worshipping yourself. That's what you're doing. And in order to sustain this mad system of worship, you need to drink and take drugs. And firstly, abstinence. Like once you force someone who's dependent on drugs

Look at that word, dependent on drugs and alcohol. Then you feel terrible and bare and naked and raw. And then you have to believe it's possible that you can change. You do this somewhat from the community, but also by investigating yourself where you will recognize that you've always known there was a God. You've always known it somewhere. Then you make a decision to allow that God to run your life.

under the guidance and tutelage of other people that you know are acting on the basis of these principles. That's why we have scripture. That's why we have clerics and priests and people that are ordained and that are able to carry that kind of weight, burden, responsibility and duty. So you admit there's a problem, you stop drinking, you believe it's possible to change, you make a decision to turn your will and your life over to the care of God, you belong to a community, you inventory yourself and work out where you've been going wrong. You have to be 100% honest about

everything you've ever done, every resentment you've got against other people and yourself. There is an ideology. 12-step recovery is a miracle, actually. It is ordained. It is anointed. It is divinely inspired. It's an American folk religion, in fact, that is proficiently

provides a perfect pathway for people that are obsessed and attached because what is addiction other than attachment? Attachment to pornography, attachment to food, attachment to drugs, attachment to sex. It shows you the way to bring those false idols down and to recognize that you were made for love, that you were made for service and it's a slow, turgid journey

journey. But the people that are addicts, they're devoted anyway. They're dedicated anyway. They've got no choice. Where recovery goes wrong is the same way that the church can go wrong, is seeing itself as secondary to the culture. When the church starts wearing the livery and the flags of the culture, it's in trouble, whether that's Nazism or some well-intended liberal idea. If it starts flying flags, there's only one flag, the flag of Calgary. That's the only flag that matters to a Christian. And our

I feel that the 12 steps is miraculous precisely because it tells you you are a spiritual being. You've not been told that you've been told you're a material being and you're trying to resolve that disjunct of knowing that the world is never enough, that you can never have enough food or enough sex or enough porn or enough heroin to ever fulfill yourself. Stop trying. Walk a different path.

It's a beautiful, beautiful system. Yeah, I'm most grateful for it. I think maybe for people that are struggling with addiction, and there are so many people that listen to my podcast that are, and whether it's porn addiction or drug addiction or drinking, I think it's this...

They don't want to go through that period of shame. Like once you're drunk, it's easier. And I have no, I have people in my family who have struggled with addiction, have never gotten over it. And so I'm always so curious when you see someone who's done it. And I'm sure people that are still struggling with it and, you know, you will be an addict for life. So it's like, even if you're clean 22 years, you're still an addict, right? What do you think is the difference? Like, why are some people able to do this and then to speak about it and to provide such a light to others to get clean while others just don't?

you know, 70 years old and can't stop the addiction, can't stop the drinking? Is it that fear of facing yourself? Do you think it's that? I think that the disease of addiction is a perfect correlative to the idea of sin. In fact, I see sin now as in self, the sibilant S of the serpent, that coiling, crawling thing of sin to worship yourself.

Now, I think it's difficult to get clean unless you're willing to take that first step. Some people will fall at the first step. They will tell you, we all recognize it. Some people go, I don't have a problem with drink. I like drinking. It's okay to drink. That's like, if you can't get someone over that, you're in real trouble until they go, I know, I just can't stop. That's good. That acknowledgement, I can't stop my life falling apart. Then you've

got an aperture there. Then you're ready for the second step. The second step is, do you believe it's possible? Because I've stopped. I don't do it. I used to drink all the time. You meet people worse than you. I was in jail for this. I had done that. I prostituted myself. I did this, that or the other. And you meet people that have such terrible, galling stories that tell you, I changed. I don't know how I did it, but power greater than myself restored me to sanity.

So once there's an inkling of the possibility, they're ready for the third step. The third step is, do you recognize you can't be in control anymore? Something else. It literally says, we made a decision to turn our will and our life over to the care of God as we understood God. It's extraordinary.

extremely and explicitly spiritual. People try to secularize it and they can because 12-step programs wisely stay out of that debate of trying to define what God might mean to various people. But once you say, I'm not in charge anymore, then you will be willing to perhaps attend support groups. You will be willing to conduct the written program. You will be willing to start reading the literature. You will be willing to consider helping other people to start recognizing that the

problem's really been that you spend all your time thinking about yourself, what you want and what you don't want, what you desire and what you're afraid of. One thing the 12 Steps don't do that I would love to contribute is they don't acknowledge that this isn't happening in neutrality. It's happening in a culture that

overstimulates desire and overstimulates fear. In fact, those are the two rods that it attaches to you like some antichrist, anti-shepherd with its rod and staff of fear and desire. Instead of offering you comfort and guidance, it offers...

continual stimulation and it continually navigates you back to self. The addict experiences this in extremists. Most people, our species in fact, are generally very adaptive. Okay, we're living in a cold place, we're living in a cold place. We're living in a concrete jungle, we're

The addict won't adapt. The alcoholic won't adapt. The alcoholic, the addict has to have God, has to have God. And if you don't give the alcoholic God, it will make one and it will worship it on its knees at the toilet basin, the steps of the brothel, anywhere where there's some sort of stimulant

So the modality of the 12 steps emerges from the church. And I believe it's going back into the church. It came out of a group called the Oxford Group, which is a first century Christian movement that wanted to revive the principles of early Christianity. And I believe that what we have a lot to learn, particularly at a time when you're, as you said earlier in our conversation, the myth of progressivism is falling apart. We're being told we're progressing while we're degenerating to the smallest imaginable units. We're decomposing.

that these ideas, not only the 12 steps, but the 12 traditions might permit us a pathway, new ways to organize. These groups are incredible. No one's in a position of authority. Authority is derived from the consensus of the group. We discuss it together. It has to be the expression of the principles, the pre-stated principles of the group, which are things like love, kindness, service. They're not wacky crackers things. You're not supposed to be prioritizing making money. There's such a great legacy and such great potential and possibility. I'm very interested in how it could help

For example, the HHS, who I know have very bold ambitions for the health of America. What makes a country sick? What makes a country want to eat disgusting processed potluck?

toxic food? Well, mass marketing campaigns, wide availability in economic conditions and poverty. And there are obvious causal reasons. But what is the sick psychic scar at the core of it? Why would there be a pharmaceutical industry that wants to treat illnesses by making them worse and perpetuating them? Where is God in all this? How are we going to reawaken the spirit of our kind? How are we going to overcome the petty distractions, the low frequency questions

quarreling and squabbling and agree on a grand vision that's going to require unity under one God, maximum democracy, maximum personal individual authority, as long as that authority is ceded to a higher power. And as long as we're running on principles like service and love one another, then we have a chance. We can't continue to default to the closed system, the closed system of self-service.

false idolatry self-worship that's exactly where this system seems to want all of us you worshiping you me worshiping me all of us oblivious and blind staggering around in the dark consuming their products believing their lies degenerate and incapable of feeding ourselves and protecting one another it seems to me that the utensils and tools and ideals lay all around us unused and we just have to pick up our sword or pick up our cross at least and follow him you

You know, Russell, I was thinking about it and I've decided I will let you into me and my husband's apocalyptic group. Good. Thank you. We play this game where we're like, OK, if we had to live off of a land, who would we allow to come onto our farm? Because everyone's got to bring something. This person can sow. This person can cook. This person can hunt. And I was thinking, you know, at the beginning of this conversation, I don't know if Russell's going to be a lot of apocalyptic group because he can't grow food, doesn't know what agriculture is. But I think he provided entertainment.

I could reenact. Great conversation, entertainment. Do an award show. You'd be baptizing people in the water. Yes, that water. So we'd probably be washing our feet in that water as well. Yeah, you wouldn't. We've got a lot of water. Exactly, exactly. You wouldn't know much about the land, but I think I'm going to let you in. Thank you for having me in your apocalyptic cult. We'll end it here.