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cover of episode The battle over the truth of January 6

The battle over the truth of January 6

2025/1/6
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Consider This from NPR

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乔·拜登
亚当·希夫
唐纳德·特朗普
布莱恩·西克尼克的家人
皮特·西米
迈克尔·普里莫
阿卡利诺·加内尔
露丝·本-吉亚特
Topics
唐纳德·特朗普:特朗普否认1月6日事件是一场严重的袭击,而是将其描述为一场充满爱意的集会,并称参与者为"爱国者"。他承诺赦免许多参与者,并淡化事件的严重性。 特朗普的言论与他对1月6日事件的描述形成鲜明对比,他最初谴责了暴力事件,但后来却将其描绘成一场和平的示威活动。这种转变反映了他试图重塑事件叙事的努力,并为自己的行为辩护。 他的赦免承诺也引发了人们对司法公正的担忧,并可能加剧政治紧张局势。 阿卡利诺·加内尔:加内尔作为国会警察,亲身经历了1月6日事件的暴力和混乱。他的证词强调了事件的危险性,以及他对自身安全的担忧。 加内尔的证词提供了第一手的证据,证明了1月6日事件的暴力性质,以及对执法人员造成的威胁。他的经历与特朗普对事件的描述形成对比,突显了事件的严重性。 亚当·希夫和乔·拜登:希夫和拜登代表民主党,谴责1月6日事件的暴力,并敦促美国人记住这一天。他们认为特朗普应该为事件负责,并批评特朗普试图淡化事件的严重性。 希夫和拜登的观点代表了对1月6日事件的普遍看法,即这是一场对美国民主的严重袭击。他们的批评突显了特朗普的行为对国家造成的损害。 露丝·本-吉亚特:本-吉亚特将1月6日事件与其他国家的类似事件进行了比较,并指出美国对事件的法律追究不足。她认为,淡化1月6日事件的严重性可能导致危险的后果。 本-吉亚特的观点强调了1月6日事件的全球背景,以及对美国民主制度的潜在威胁。她的分析提供了对事件长期影响的洞察。 迈克尔·普里莫:普里莫的纪录片探讨了导致1月6日事件的一些深层原因,包括极右翼的兴起和对男性气质危机的担忧。他认为,许多美国人仍然不明白这个国家是如何走到这一步的。 普里莫的观点提供了对1月6日事件的社会和文化背景的理解,并突显了需要更深入地探讨导致事件发生的因素。 皮特·西米:西米将对1月6日事件叙事的改写与美国重建时期后的情况进行了比较,并指出这可能导致类似于吉姆·克劳时代的压迫。 西米的观点强调了对1月6日事件叙事进行改写的潜在危险,以及其对美国民主制度的长期影响。 布莱恩·西克尼克的家人:西克尼克的家人认为特朗普应该对布莱恩的死负有个人责任,并对特朗普试图淡化事件的严重性表示愤怒。 西克尼克家人的证词提供了1月6日事件对受害者家庭造成的个人影响的感人画面,并突显了对真相和正义的追求。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What was the significance of January 6, 2021, in U.S. history?

January 6, 2021, marked a violent attack on the U.S. Capitol by a mob attempting to stop the certification of Joe Biden's presidential election victory. The event, fueled by false claims of election fraud by Donald Trump, resulted in multiple injuries, deaths, and significant damage to the Capitol. It is widely regarded as an unprecedented assault on American democracy.

How has Donald Trump's narrative about January 6 changed over time?

Initially, Trump described January 6 as a 'heinous attack' and condemned the violence. However, by 2024, he referred to it as a 'day of love' and falsely claimed that rioters were ushered in by police. He now portrays the rioters as 'hostages' and 'unbelievable patriots,' promising to pardon many of them if re-elected.

What role did Trump play in the events of January 6?

Trump repeatedly falsely claimed he won the 2020 election and urged his supporters to march to the Capitol on January 6, where Congress was certifying the results. His rhetoric and actions are widely seen as inciting the violence that followed.

What are the potential consequences of Trump pardoning January 6 defendants?

Pardoning January 6 defendants could normalize political violence and undermine accountability for those who attacked the Capitol. It would also signal a continuation of Trump's celebration of violence against democratic institutions, as noted by Senator Adam Schiff.

How has the narrative about January 6 been contested?

While some, including Trump and his allies, frame January 6 as a day of 'patriotic heroism,' others, like President Biden and historians, warn against rewriting history. The lack of federal court adjudication on whether it was an insurrection has left the narrative open to political manipulation.

What parallels exist between January 6 and historical events like Reconstruction?

Sociologist Pete Simi compares January 6 revisionism to the backlash during Reconstruction, where progress toward democratic ideals was dismantled through violence and the creation of alternate histories. He warns that similar efforts to rewrite January 6 could lead to authoritarianism.

How has the Sicknick family been affected by January 6?

Brian Sicknick, a Capitol Police officer, died after being pepper-sprayed during the riot. His family blames Trump for his death and has become politically active, advocating for accountability. They have faced conspiracy theories and denial from Trump supporters, which has deeply affected them.

What is the significance of the documentary 'Homegrown' in understanding January 6?

The documentary 'Homegrown' follows two Proud Boys, including Christopher Quaglin, who was sentenced to 12 years for his role in the Capitol attack. It explores themes like far-right extremism and masculinity, offering insights into the events leading up to January 6. Despite critical acclaim, U.S. broadcasters have been hesitant to distribute it.

How has the global context of self-coups influenced perceptions of January 6?

Historian Ruth Ben-Ghiat compares January 6 to self-coups in countries like Brazil and Peru, where leaders used illegal means to stay in power. Unlike those cases, Trump has not faced imprisonment or political bans, raising concerns about the resilience of U.S. democracy.

What are the long-term implications of January 6 for American democracy?

The ongoing fight over the narrative of January 6 threatens to erode trust in democratic institutions and normalize political violence. If the truth is rewritten or erased, it could set a dangerous precedent for future challenges to democratic processes.

Chapters
The podcast starts by contrasting the mundane certification of the 2021 presidential election with the violent events of January 6th, 2021. It highlights the conflicting narratives surrounding the day, with Trump and his allies now portraying it as a day of love and patriotism, while others remember it as a heinous attack on democracy.
  • Contrasting descriptions of January 6th: 'businesslike' vs. 'heinous attack'
  • Trump's shifting narrative on the events
  • The ongoing fight over the interpretation of January 6th's significance

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

The business at the Capitol on Monday felt, well, businesslike. The state of the vote for the President of the United States as delivered to the President of the Senate is as follows. In a little over half an hour, a joint session of Congress counted electoral votes and certified Donald Trump's victory.

Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida has received 312 votes. Vice President Kamala Harris presided over the session. Kamala D. Harris of the state of California has received 226 votes.

It was ordinary, which is striking given what happened the last time Congress certified a presidential election. On January 6th, 2021, a violent mob stormed the Capitol in an attempt to stop the count. Here's how Donald Trump, who was on his way out of office, described it in a speech the next day. I would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans, I am outraged by the violence,

lawlessness and mayhem. He did not acknowledge the role he played leading up to that mayhem. In the weeks after the 2020 election, Trump falsely claimed that he actually won, not Joe Biden. On January 6th, he urged his supporters to march toward the Capitol, where Congress was certifying the results.

These days, Trump and his allies don't describe January 6th as a heinous attack. They don't mention violence, lawlessness, and mayhem. Instead, this is how Trump talked about it in a Univision town hall during the 2024 campaign. That was a day of love from the standpoint of the millions. It's like hundreds of thousands. It could have been the largest group I've ever spoken before. They asked me to speak. I went and I spoke. And I used the term

peacefully and patriotically. Trump now falsely claims the rioters were ushered in by the police. My fellow officers and I would punch, kick,

Akalino Ganel was a sergeant in the Capitol Police. That day, he held back rioters trying to breach the building through an entrance tunnel. He later testified that what happened January 6th brought back memories of his time as a soldier in Iraq. I could feel myself losing oxygen and recall thinking to myself,

This is how I'm going to die, defending dissentions. Trump has called people convicted of felonies connected to January 6th hostages and unbelievable patriots. He promises he'll pardon many of them in the first hour of his presidency. If the president goes forward with pardoning vast numbers of people involved in that violence, he will begin his new administration the way he ended his last administration, and that is by

celebrating violence against our democracy. That's California Senator Adam Schiff on NBC's Meet the Press. Like many Democrats, he is urging Americans to remember the violence at the Capitol. President Biden wrote an op-ed in The Washington Post saying, quote, "An unrelenting effort has been underway to rewrite, even erase, the history of that day." He wrote, "We cannot allow the truth to be lost."

Consider this. Four years after the fighting and violence of January 6th, 2021, there is still an intense fight over the story we tell about that day. What does that mean for the future of American democracy? From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. This message comes from NPR sponsor, SADVA. Founder and CEO Ron Rudson shares the story of how he got started creating SADVA.

In 2007, 2008, I went out and I bought the most popular luxury mattresses. I tore them apart and I realized, based on the raw materials cost and the analysis that I had done, that I was able to sell that level mattress, but with a very affordable price.

To learn more, go to s-double-a-t-v-a-dot-com-slash-n-p-r. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Energia, where everyone can invest in the world's top renewable energy markets. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting out, diversify your portfolio for as little as $100. Make your money do more at Energia-dot-com-slash-n-p-r.

Support for NPR and the following message come from Boll & Branch. Change your sleep with Boll & Branch's airy blankets, cloud-like duvets, and breathable sheets. Feel the difference with 15% off your first order at bollandbranch.com with code NPR. Exclusions apply. See site for details. It's Consider This from NPR. What happened on January 6th, 2021?

There have been news reports and documentaries trying to put that question to rest. Speeches, an impeachment trial, a House Select Committee. But the fight over how that day will be remembered isn't over. And that could have big consequences. NPR's domestic extremism correspondent Odette Youssef reports. Ruth Ben-Ghiat says in recent years, other countries have also had their January 6th moments.

She calls them self-coups, attempts by someone in power to stay in power, often by using illegal means and force. In Brazil in 2023, Bolsonaro attempted one. In Peru, 2022. In South Korea, very recently. Ben-Ghiad is a historian at New York University and author of the book Strongmen, Mussolini to the Present.

And in all of those cases, the perpetrator of the self-coup was either imprisoned or banned from politics. Not so in the U.S. Here, the legal questions of whether January 6th was an insurrection and whether Trump bears responsibility were never fully adjudicated by a federal court. Two state courts, both in Colorado, determined yes for both questions.

But the narrative coming from Trump, Fox News, and a proportion of the GOP that has grown in the last four years is that it was actually a day of patriotic heroism. I want to look at everything. We're going to look at individual cases. On NBC's Meet the Press last month, Trump repeated a promise to pardon some or all of those convicted of crimes related to January 6th.

Within your first 100 days, first day? First day. Trump has also spoken of going after members of the House Select Committee, which investigated January 6th. And he has called that day, quote, a beautiful day. You do not want this f***ing day.

You're on the wrong side, buddy! It's perhaps one of the most documented events in recent history. Michael Primo is a journalist and filmmaker. In August, his documentary Homegrown premiered at the Venice Film Festival. It follows two Proud Boys starting in 2018. One of them, Christopher Quaglin, ended up being sentenced to 12 years for his violent participation in January 6th. Primo filmed it all.

He says many Americans still don't understand how the country got to that point. The election made the film even more relevant because the headlines trying to diagnose the 2024 election outcomes, talking about the increasing multicultural participation of the far right, the crisis of masculinity, are all ideas that our film squarely deals with. Primo says U.S. broadcasters have praised the film, but none have agreed to distribute it. He says they're nervous about the content.

But he thinks an American audience will want to see it and talk about it. Something that has been an indication of how hungry people are for this film is the fact that at all our screenings, many of them are sold out.

Virtually all of the audience stays to talk afterwards because people are so hungry to sort of better understand what's happening in America. Pete Simi says the rewriting of the narrative of January 6th is itself another hallmark of America. This has happened before. It reminds me a lot of what happened after the Reconstruction era. Simi is a sociology professor at Chapman University.

He says after the Civil War, there was rapid progress toward democratic ideals. Rights of citizenship and voting were finally extended to people who'd been slaves.

And then came the backlash. The level of violence during the Reconstruction era meant to dismantle those efforts and then afterwards really kind of create an alternate history in terms of the events that happened. And it ushered in a five-decade period of what many characterize as authoritarianism over Black Americans, the Jim Crow era.

Simi and Ruth Ben-Ghiat see similar perils with January 6th revisionism. I wouldn't be surprised if it became a day of commemoration in America, almost a holiday. NPR's Odette Youssef. The effort to downplay the insurrection at the Capitol is about more than politics for the family of Brian Sicknick. He was a Capitol police officer on duty the day of the attack. He was in the middle of it and got soaked in pepper spray.

He collapsed that night and died the following day. NPR's Tom Dreisbach went to visit his family. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Just inside the front door of the Sicknick's house, you can't miss it, is a small table filled with reminders and memories of Brian. And this one, this one got oldest, oh my God. His mom, Gladys, showed me around. She had three sons who all grew up in this house. Brian was the youngest. This is all his stuff that...

There's the mementos you'd find in the scrapbooks of a lot of proud parents, all next to awards from national leaders for Bryan's service in the military and on January 6th. This is the Congressional Gold Medal.

We have all kinds of medals and plaques and declarations, but what we don't have is Brian. That's Brian's dad, Charlie. The Sicknick family has been dealing with the loss of Brian for four years now. It was almost like a little mini-me, so to speak. Craig Sicknick is Brian's oldest brother. There's a 10-year age gap.

And he remembers the little brother who loved to tag along to the Jersey Shore. It's kind of funny. I know he looked up to me. And of course, as time went on, I started looking up to him. It's like, wow, look at all the stuff he's done. Yeah.

First, there was Brian's service in the National Guard. He deployed to Saudi Arabia and Kyrgyzstan, but he always wanted to be a cop. And in 2008, he got a job. And then how did you feel when he joined the Capitol Police? Oh, we thought it was wonderful. Very happy for him because we figured Capitol Police, if you're going to be in law enforcement, this is a pretty safe place to be. Didn't work out that

For the Sicknick family, the memory of January 6th is still right there, not even below the surface. Craig was texting with Brian that day. After the worst of the riot, Brian texted that he'd been pepper sprayed and his clothes were soaked with the stuff, along with the smell of weed from the crowd of rioters. But he was okay. Then, not long after, the family got another message. Brian had collapsed in the Capitol. He was at the hospital, non-responsive.

They started rushing from New Jersey down to D.C. So we're driving down, and on the New Jersey turnpike, we start getting calls from the press offering their condolences and asking for our initial opinions. So that's how we learned my brother was dead. It took months, but the D.C. medical examiner later said that Brian Sicknick died from two strokes, officially natural causes. But the medical examiner added all that transpired on January 6th played a role in his condition.

Sicknick's family blames the stress and trauma of the riot. Do you hold Trump personally responsible for Brian's death? Absolutely. Certainly. Yes, definitely. Brian was a Trump supporter, but Trump never contacted the family to offer his condolences. A spokesperson for the Trump team did not answer our question about why.

Before the riot, the Sicknicks were not very public or political. And that's one way this experience changed them. They started doing interviews. They went to the sentencing for the man who assaulted Brian with pepper spray, Julian Cater. They wanted to stand up and speak to the court about how Brian's death had affected them. When we were sitting in the courtroom waiting, he came in an orange jumpsuit. And I'm like, oh my God, you know.

So every time I said his name, I looked at him and he put his head down. Wow. Yeah, it was scary. But I knew it had to be done. Why? It just had to tell people. Cater was sentenced to six years in prison. And in the courtroom, it felt like facts mattered. But in politics, and even with friends, conspiracy theories were everywhere.

Charlie says he heard from people. Didn't the police let the rioters in the building? Was it really so bad? I try not to associate with people who are Trump people. I have lifelong friends that I don't associate with anymore because of what happened. You know, to them, it's not a big deal because it wasn't their son, you know.

Craig says the experience of people he knew denying reality changed him, made him get into a lot more arguments, especially on social media. I'm not nice. I used to be nice, used to be decent. I don't tolerate it anymore. You've got a lot of anger now, it sounds like. Oh, big time. Yeah. I turn into a much angrier, crankier person. People don't like me. I don't care. But the Sicknicks did care a lot about the 2024 election. They took action.

Craig and Gladys both went to the Democratic National Convention. They actively supported Vice President Kamala Harris. Gladys says it felt like keeping active helped her cope, at least for a while. Just recently is when I've gotten crazy in my head with this stuff, really. And then this election. What do you mean, crazy in the head? Just, you know, I cry just because.

When Trump won the election, the Sicknicks were stunned. I went to sleep hoping for the best. I woke up Wednesday morning, turned on the phone and said, sick to your stomach. Yeah, it took me an extra two hours to get to work because I just couldn't get moving. I was depressed enough that it's like, do I even bother anymore? What I'm very upset about that might happen is that he's going to let all these people out of jail. It's just...

It's just not right. Trump has promised to pardon January 6th defendants on his first day in office, but hasn't given specifics. A spokesperson for the Trump team said the administration would pardon people they claim were, quote, denied due process and unfairly prosecuted. Last year, Trump said he was open to pardoning people convicted of assaulting police, which might include the man who assaulted Brian. Craig says he expects Trump to whitewash the truth of January 6th.

But even in all the pain, they've also found good people. There are the Capitol Police officers, Brian's former co-workers, who still check in on them. The random gas station attendant who gives his condolences. People we met on our honeymoon 55 years ago. We haven't been in touch since, but she sent this quilt with, you know, Brian's picture on it. Oh my goodness. So it must feel like...

At least some people reached out and still remembered and thought of you. There's a lot of good people out there. And the Sicknicks are so proud to be Brian's father, mother, and brother. They show me their metal bracelets they all got in memory of Brian. And then Gladys rolls up her sleeve. And then I did this too. What's that? Brian's shield.

Oh, it's a tattoo you got with Brian's shield on your forearm. We're generally not tattoo people. I was amazed when she got that done. You don't often hear of people getting their first tattoo in their 70s.

Gladys told me it was partly because the metal bracelet kind of irritated her wrist. But when it feels like people are no longer interested in Brian's sacrifice on January 6th, the bracelets, the tattoo, all the other mementos seem even more important in a way to feel like his memory is just a little bit closer. NPR's Tom Dreisbach.

This episode was produced by Connor Donovan, Karen Zamora, and Monika Evstatieva. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Andrew Sussman, and Barry Hardiman. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.

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