We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode What's behind Trump's crackdown on universities — and why it matters

What's behind Trump's crackdown on universities — and why it matters

2025/5/30
logo of podcast Consider This from NPR

Consider This from NPR

AI Deep Dive AI Chapters Transcript
People
A
Alan Garber
A
Alyssa Nadwerny
A
Ari Shapiro
D
Danielle Kurtzleben
D
Donald Trump
批评CHIPS Act,倡导使用关税而非补贴来促进美国国内芯片制造。
S
Sabrina Howell
T
T
T
Ted Mitchell
无发言人
Topics
Sabrina Howell: 作为纽约大学商学院的教授,我认为特朗普政府削减研究经费将会对医学和科技的未来产生严重影响。例如,如果没有联邦政府资助的麻省理工学院在激光技术上的研究,就不会有iPhone的诞生。政府应该重视大学在科技创新中的作用,而不是一味地削减经费。 T: 作为哥伦比亚大学的研究生,我感到非常担忧。每次出门,我都会在精神上和情感上为被拘留做好准备。街上的任何人和车辆都可能引发我的恐慌。这种恐惧严重影响了我的学习和生活。我希望政府能够停止这种不人道的行为,保障国际学生的基本权益。 Ted Mitchell: 作为美国教育委员会的主席,我认为学术自由对于大学至关重要。如果大学失去了学术自由,就无法创造和提供广泛的学术项目。政府的干预将会严重损害高等教育的质量和创新能力。我们必须捍卫大学的独立性,确保学术自由不受侵犯。 Alan Garber: 作为哈佛大学的校长,我认为政府资助大学进行高优先级研究工作是互惠互利的事情。政府削减研究经费不仅会损害大学的利益,也会对国家的发展产生负面影响。关闭这些研究项目对国家没有任何好处,即使这可以惩罚哈佛大学。政府应该重新审视其政策,与大学合作,共同推动科技进步。 Alyssa Nadwerny: 作为NPR的教育记者,我观察到特朗普政府的政策使得大学校园生活极其混乱。学生,特别是国际学生,他们的生活处于不稳定状态。大学领导者们不得不做出关于机构财务状况的重大决定。例如,西北大学的研究经费削减了近10亿美元,涉及癌症研究、糖尿病治疗,甚至国家安全和武器技术。这些政策对高等教育产生了广泛而深远的影响。 Danielle Kurtzleben: 作为NPR的白宫记者,我认为特朗普政府对高等教育的打压有多个原因。一方面是反犹主义,另一方面是反对“觉醒”。政府试图通过这些手段来控制大学的思想和言论。此外,特朗普政府的政策也与MAGA运动的身份政治有关,试图迎合没有大学学位的选民。我认为,这些政策最终会损害美国的高等教育和科技创新能力。 Donald Trump: 作为前总统,我认为我们需要切断那些资助马克思主义对我们美国传统和西方文明进行攻击的学校的资金。我希望确保外国学生是热爱我们国家的人。美国需要的是职业学校的人,而不是精英大学的人。我们需要优先发展职业教育,培养更多实用型人才。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The Trump administration's actions against universities, including research grant cuts and international student arrests, have created fear and uncertainty within academia. The administration's stated reasons are unclear, and the impact on research and academic freedom is significant.
  • $10 billion in research grants cut
  • Arrests of international student activists
  • Government oversight demands
  • Restrictions on foreign student enrollment
  • Harvard's pushback against the White House

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

The Trump administration has thrown so many curveballs at colleges and universities, it can be hard to keep track. To start, they've already cut more than $10 billion in research grants.

That could affect the future of everything from medicine to personal tech, says NYU Business School professor Sabrina Howell. We would not have iPhones if universities like MIT that are federally government funded hadn't worked on lasers. Then there are the arrests of international students. Federal agents have locked up student activists and revoked their visas.

Even those who have not been targeted say they're living in fear. Like T, a graduate student at Columbia. She asked that we only use her first initial because she's worried about being detained. Every time I leave my house, I'm

I'm like emotionally and mentally preparing myself for detention. So any man on the street or any like white or black van sparks some sort of panic within me. The administration has also made sweeping demands like requiring government oversight of certain college departments. Ted Mitchell is president of the American Council on Education, which represents most colleges in the U.S. With

Without the independence to be able to create and produce a wide-ranging academic program, we lose academic freedom. And just this week, the administration said it intends to severely restrict some foreign students from enrolling. We have people who want to go to Harvard and other schools. They can't get in.

because we have foreign students there. But I want to make sure that the foreign students are people that can love our country. Harvard is one of the schools pushing back against the White House. University President Alan Garber recently told NPR it's hard to see the logic in the government's actions. The research funding is not a gift. The research funding

is given to universities and other research institutions to carry out work that the federal government designates as high priority work. It is work that they want done. Shutting off that work does not help the country, even as it punishes Harvard. Consider this. What's actually driving the federal government's crackdown on universities? And what does it mean for the future of higher education?

From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro.

This message comes from Rinse, who asks, who does your laundry? Simplify your life by having Rinse do it for you. With one touch, in-app scheduling, pickup and delivery are effortless. Your clothes come back fresh, folded and ready to wear, handled by laundry experts who get every detail right. Rinse combines human care with seamless technology to make laundry and dry cleaning the easiest part of your week. Sign up at Rinse.com and save $20 on your first order.

This message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less, and all plans include high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and nationwide coverage. See for yourself at mintmobile.com slash switch.

This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you with plans starting from $15 a month. Shop plans today at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5GB plan required. New customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

It's Consider This from NPR. The Trump administration's multi-pronged assault on colleges and universities is part of an overarching strategy. Two of our correspondents are here to explain what the administration hopes to accomplish and what that means for those institutions. NPR White House correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben and NPR education correspondent Alyssa Nadwerny. Good to have you both here. Thanks for having us. Thanks. Thanks.

Thanks. Alyssa, the Trump administration's moves have affected lots of schools of all sizes, but elite universities, especially Ivy League schools, are a particular focus. What have these new policies meant for the institutions the White House is targeting? Well, I have spent this semester talking with college presidents, administrators, students,

And it has made life on campus extremely chaotic. I mean, people have told me that they have not experienced anything like this in higher ed since the McCarthy era. You know, students, especially international students, their lives are in limbo. And leaders, you know, are having to make really big decisions about what the finances at an institution looks like. I mean,

Take Northwestern, for example. They had almost a billion dollars in research grants cuts. These are things like cancer research, diabetes treatment, even things related to national security and weaponry technology.

So, Danielle, what reason does the White House give for this broad assault? Well, they've given a couple of stated reasons. One is anti-Semitism. In the wake of those October 7th attacks on Israel, there were a lot of pro-Palestinian protests at universities, especially as Israel continued its harsh attacks and blockades on Gaza.

So with all of that protesting came angry rhetoric towards Israel, and in some cases, some Jewish students on campuses were harassed. And that helped spark this focus on anti-Semitism within the administration.

There's also this broad fight against wokeness. Trump has regularly complained, especially on the campaign trail last year, about these colleges being where people learn things like what he calls critical race theory and gender ideology. Here's Trump at an event in Florida in 2023. We are going to choke off the money to schools that aid the Marxist assault on our American heritage and on Western civilization itself.

The days of subsidizing communist indoctrination in our colleges will soon be over. Now, those who take the side of the universities often argue that some of this, for example, the fight against anti-Semitism is pretext that the administration just wanted reasons to crack down on colleges. And indeed, many of the results of this that Alyssa was talking about, like hurting medical research, have nothing to do with wokeness or anti-Semitism.

And if those are what you described as the stated reasons, what are the unstated reasons? To me, I put this into three pretty broad buckets. One is there's been this longstanding backdrop of anger at colleges and universities among the conservative movement for a long time. I mean, think back to the anti-war protests dating back to the Vietnam War, also the Iraq War in the early 2000s.

Furthermore, there were free speech fears about speech being chilled on college campuses. And all of that that I just talked about is reinforced by demographics. Trump's base and increasingly the Republican base is Americans without a four-year degree. Democrats are the opposite. So that is one bucket. Another is that experts in authoritarianism often point out that other authoritarian leaders beyond Trump...

often come down hard on universities. The goal is to limit free thinking, to limit opposition to authority, and not to mention just to limit the information environment. The one other thing I would add is that there's populist resentment here because of real issues like legacy admissions and the cost of these elite schools, plus rhetoric around affirmative action. A lot of people just perceive these schools as unfair.

Alyssa, this is all playing out in the public sphere and in actual courts and legal battles. What's going on behind the scenes between these schools and the administration? Well, behind the scenes, universities are in dialogue with the government to figure out how they can be in line with these current laws, like the ban on affirmative action, among other things. I mean, they...

The threat of or the leverage of federal funding to implement policy isn't new, Ari. You know, Harvard, for example, has acknowledged that they can and will do more to combat anti-Semitism.

A lot of college leaders have told me that even in the last few weeks, they've made multiple trips to D.C. to meet with officials from the Education Department and in Congress. Columbia and Harvard say they have been involved in this process of negotiation, but they say the grant freezings are undermining those talks and the process that is supposed to unfold.

Danielle, what can you tell us about why this has become so central to Donald Trump's political project? Well, I think that like so many topics right now, this is about identity politics, specifically the identity of being a MAGA voter. If I am a voter who loves Donald Trump, this is about not only whether I did or didn't go to college, but do I think colleges are elitist or not? Or do I think gender study majors are bad?

Beyond that, it's also about do I want to punish people who are on the opposite side of me on those issues? That willingness to punish is also central to Trumpism. We see that in his attacks on law firms, groups of immigrants and press outlets like how he comes after the AP.

And speaking of identity, I think this particular fight against elite universities also fits with the common man appeal that Trump really tries to maintain. Trump and his staffers often say some variation on the idea that, you know, we in the U.S. need people in trade schools, not elite universities. But if Trump and his allies are framing this as a kind of head-to-head decision, elite colleges versus vocational schools or community colleges...

Alyssa, is it a binary choice for the federal government? Does cutting a grant for Harvard mean a small school somewhere else will get more money? No. I mean, that's not how government funding works. These two things actually aren't at odds with each other in the sense that money for cancer research is allocated by Congress.

It's not money that would have otherwise be spent on community college. You know, one thing, Ari, that's worth mentioning is that very few people actually go to these elite universities, less than 1% of all U.S. college students go.

Most Americans are at community colleges and regional four-year public universities, which educate students on the trades. So the idea that more federal dollars are going to elite schools instead of these institutions means that money isn't actually flowing to where the majority of the students are. And so Trump's idea to fund trade schools is perhaps an idea that people across the aisle could actually agree on.

What could the long-term impact be for the students and universities and also for Trump? There are huge stakes for students and institutions. I mean, think of the research that has been paused in terms of advances in health and technology. And then when it comes to students, I mean, international students alone contribute about $43 billion to the U.S. economy every year. We're already seeing applications for international students down. You know, they're choosing to go elsewhere. Yeah.

Now, as for Trump, the impact is harder to see, at least directly. It won't be votes because he can't run again, even if he likes to talk about it. I would say this is about fueling that powerful MAGA movement he built. And that MAGA movement is the GOP now. So the MAGA ideals around higher education, they're likely to stick around. NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben and Alyssa Nadworny. Thank you. Thank you. You bet.

This episode was produced by Michelle Aslam with audio engineering by Ted Meebane. It was edited by Sarah Handel, Lauren Magaki, and Kelsey Snell. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. Thanks to our Consider This Plus listeners who support the work of NPR journalists and help keep public radio strong. Supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors. Learn more at plus.npr.org. ♪

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.

Support for NPR and the following message come from Rosetta Stone, the perfect app to achieve your language learning goals no matter how busy your schedule gets. It's designed to maximize study time with immersive 10-minute lessons and audio practice for your commute. Plus, tailor your learning plan for specific objectives like travel. Get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off and unlimited access to 25 language courses. Learn more at rosettastone.com slash NPR.

This message comes from Crown, publisher of The Demon of Unrest, a saga of hubris, heartbreak, and heroism at the dawn of the Civil War by Eric Larson. The Demon of Unrest is available wherever books and audiobooks are sold.

This message comes from LPL Financial. What if you could have more control over your future? LPL Financial removes the things holding you back and provides the services to push you forward. Because when it comes to your finances, your business, your future, LPL Financial believes the only question should be, what if you could? LPL Financial, member FINRA SIPC, no strategy assures success or protects against loss. Investing involves risk, including possible loss of principal.