"Wicked" star Cynthia Erivo, can relate to being viewed as different.
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Are you a good witch or a bad witch? In the 1939 classic The Wizard of Oz, it is very clear who the bad witch is. Get you, my pretty, and your little dog too. Recognize the cackle? That is the Wicked Witch of the West, played by Margaret Hamilton. She was mean and green and remains one of cinema's most iconic villains. In command of her army of flying monkeys, she's terrified generations of children, even some adults.

But what if the Wicked Witch of the West wasn't always so wicked? What if she got that way or was seen that way for a reason? That was the premise of the original Broadway hit musical Wicked, focused on the backstory of Elphaba, the Wicked Witch of the West, and her relationship with Linda the Good Witch.

The show has won three Tony Awards and has since become Broadway's second highest-grossing show, trailing only The Lion King. Consider this. For 20 years, Wicked has been a pop culture phenomenon on stage, and now it is making the leap to the big screen. Coming up, we talk to the gravity-defying star at its center. ♪

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It's Consider This from NPR. Are people born wicked?

Or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? Since 2003, many actresses all over the country, all over the world, have played the gravity-defying Elphaba. Now, the latest powerhouse singer to Don Green face paint and belt that signature high note...

It's Cynthia Erivo, who just happens to be here in the studio. Hello. Hi. I mean, to me, from the first few seconds of the film, I was just so blown away by the visual and the world of Oz. Oz and Hydrate was the happiest I dare, I dare.

And I'm just wondering what it felt like to step onto that set in the full costume and makeup and just inhabit that world for the first time. I mean, it was really, really overwhelming. I think the wonderful thing about...

doing it the way we have is that everything is really practical. So Nathan Crowley and his wonderful set designing team created the world of Oz. So when we were on the set, we were on the set. Very little green screen, very little blue screen. Everything is, you can touch it, you can feel it. So it felt like you could sort of disappear into the world. I loved the feeling. It was very overwhelming. That very first day was a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Going into this, I'm curious, how much did, whether Wicked, the musical, or The Wizard of Oz, how big did those two loom in your mind growing up? I mean, you're such a lifelong theater person, musical person, so I imagine. Yeah. So I came, obviously, The Wizard of Oz for me was first. It was a lot of my childhood. We used to watch it as a family. And in London, you used to have Saturday films or weekend films, and they would come on, I think it was like Channel 4. And then when I was at drama school, I think I was about 20 years old, I

That's when I heard about Wicked because I started learning the music. A friend of mine would steed away with me to a piano room and we would sit at the piano and we would learn the libretto and we would just play the music. So by the time I'd left drama school, about 23 years old, I knew the music like the back of my hand and I'd never seen the show before.

So by the time I was 25, when I could afford a ticket to go to the West End, I bought myself a solo ticket. I took myself on a date. It was my birthday to see Wicked. And I think there's something about a story about a person who feels like they're on the outside, who's treated like they're different, that just sort of clung to me. I got it immediately. Yeah. What do you think you would have thought in that moment if somebody said, and down the line, you'll be starring in the movie version of this, going all over the world talking about it.

I would probably have said, I'll believe it when I see it. You know, I barely believed that I was going to go to Broadway with The Color Purple. So I don't know if I would have believed them, to be honest. Yeah. You've talked, I mean, you mentioned a few times that being an outsider is such a central part of Elphaba's character. And there are moments where the movie gets very quiet and really focused on that. And it's almost painful to see how she realizes that she's apart from her peers. And just like...

I feel like you played that part very, very quietly and very, very deeply personally. How much were you actively thinking about this character as an outsider? She's both...

pushing people away and also desperately wanting to fit in because it just feels like it seeps out of every scene of the movie. Yeah, yeah. I think it was on the surface for me, like very, very easy to access, very close to the bone for me. I think I've always seen her as an outsider and I think I've always thought of myself as an outsider. So that was, I say easy to access, but not easy to experience. Yeah.

Even in those moments where she gets to the joke before everybody else does. You're green. I am. It's a defence mechanism, so if she gets there before everyone else does, then she can avoid what it feels like if someone gets there before her. One of those scenes for me, when she's in class and Glinda says, It seems the artichoke is steamed. Whenever I was in this, and when I watch it back, it always feels deeply uncomfortable because it's just that one moment where it's like, oh, I didn't get there fast enough.

And then it, you know, sort of all falls apart because she allows herself to hope, allows herself to believe that she might be included. Galinda, Nessa and I were talking about you just now. Oh, well, we were just talking about you. How you should join us tonight at the Oz Dust. And don't tell me you have nothing to wear. Because you could wear this.

And when it isn't that, I think it's the first time that she allows everyone to see how hurt she is. Yeah, it's a painful scene. And you said it was painful to film. Very painful to film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a long, hard, painful day because those are all real feelings that I've had and felt. And I always allowed that moment to not just be what happens at school, but...

for what happens in her life with her father and her sister. And I just thought all of those things coming together. And as someone who understands what that strange relationship with father can be like, I just think I allowed all of those things to be there and be present to be able to tell the story. When you think about the themes of Wicked,

There is a very powerful us versus them current running through the movie. We animals are now being blamed for everything that goes wrong. Forced from our jobs, told to keep silent. Have you given thought to how relevant that is in this particular moment in time? Yeah, and it keeps coming up about how relevant it is right now. But I don't think that...

ever changes. I think that it stays relevant. I think we keep being reminded of it. You know, we're still shunning certain people. We're still not making space for people. But there is room to change. There is room for empathy. There is room for growth. So I do think it's always going to be relevant. I think it was relevant when...

when The Wizard of Oz came out. And I think it's relevant right now. You know, this is a movie that as a musical, as you well know, so many people have connected with so deeply because so many people have felt in one way or another like an outsider. What would you say to somebody who's listened to that soundtrack 7,000 times because they feel like an outsider? I would say that that thing that makes you feel like an outsider is that thing that also makes you special.

I'm definitely not like your cookie cutter, normal, everyday being. I'm very different, you know, and it takes time to be okay with that. But the moment you are, it's very freeing. There's something about you. You're different and that's okay.

And it might be the thing that gets you exactly where you need to be. Because I don't think if I didn't understand what it is like to feel different, what it's like to feel like you're on the outside, that this would have come my way. And this is a massive moment and my dreams are coming true. But I think it definitely has something to do with how different I feel and have been, you know. And be brave. You'll be okay.

Well, Cynthia Erivo, star of Wicked, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. This episode was produced by Mallory Yu and Mark Rivers. It was edited by Sarah Handel and Jeanette Woods. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannicka. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices, like full-service wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on Thinkorswim. Visit Schwab.com to learn more.

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