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cover of episode Wray is out. Patel may be in. What's it mean for the FBI?

Wray is out. Patel may be in. What's it mean for the FBI?

2024/12/12
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克里斯托弗·雷
卡什·帕特尔
叙述者
拉塞尔·缪尔黑德
查尔斯·库珀曼
特朗普
美国企业家、政治人物及媒体名人,曾任第45任和第47任美国总统。
特朗普发言人
Topics
叙述者:本集讨论了FBI局长克里斯托弗·雷的辞职以及特朗普提名卡什·帕特尔为新局长的事件。雷的辞职声明强调了FBI坚持正直、核心价值观、独立性和客观性以及维护法治的重要性。特朗普对雷的辞职表示欢迎,认为这是结束司法部"武器化"的标志。帕特尔此前在特朗普政府担任多个国家安全职位,之后成为亲特朗普的网红,传播阴谋论,这引发了人们对其领导FBI能力的担忧。 对帕特尔的质疑主要集中在他与QAnon运动的关系,以及他公开威胁要追究特朗普政治对手责任。帕特尔创作的儿童读物和成人书籍中都体现了他的政治立场,并表达了对"深度政府"的批判。评论员认为,帕特尔可能会利用FBI来传播阴谋论,损害反对派,巩固政权,这将严重威胁FBI的独立性。 一些前政府官员也表达了对帕特尔担任FBI局长的担忧,认为他的履历不适合这个职位,他可能会成为特朗普的宣传员,并对反对者进行报复。特朗普的发言人则表示,帕特尔将结束FBI的"武器化"。 克里斯托弗·雷:在辞职声明中,雷强调了FBI必须坚持正直、核心价值观、独立性和客观性,维护法治。他承诺不受政治压力影响,会尽职尽责。 特朗普:特朗普对雷的辞职表示欢迎,认为这是结束司法部"武器化"的标志。他否认帕特尔会调查他的政治对手,但表示如果有人违法,应该受到调查。 卡什·帕特尔:帕特尔没有回应采访请求,但他公开发表的言论和作品显示了他对"深度政府"的批判,以及对特朗普的支持。他曾公开威胁要追究特朗普政治对手的责任,并参与了一些传播QAnon内容的节目。 丽莎·哈根:哈根的报道揭示了帕特尔创作的儿童读物和成人书籍中体现的政治立场,以及他与QAnon运动的关系。 拉塞尔·缪尔黑德:缪尔黑德认为,"深度政府"阴谋论为破坏政府中不服从特朗普意志的部分提供了合法性,而帕特尔乐于接受与特朗普相关的阴谋论,并从中获益。他担心FBI可能会被用来传播阴谋论,以损害反对派并巩固政权。 查尔斯·库珀曼:库珀曼认为帕特尔的履历不适合担任FBI局长,他担心帕特尔会成为特朗普的宣传员,并对反对者进行报复。 特朗普发言人:特朗普的发言人表示,帕特尔将结束FBI的"武器化"。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Christopher Wray resign as FBI Director?

Wray resigned at the end of the Biden administration, following President-elect Trump's announcement that he would appoint Kash Patel to lead the FBI, implying Wray would be fired.

What were Christopher Wray's key principles during his tenure as FBI Director?

Wray emphasized commitment to core values, independence, objectivity, and defense of the rule of law.

Why did Trump initially appoint Christopher Wray as FBI Director?

Trump nominated Wray in 2017 to replace James Comey, whom he fired, citing Comey's handling of the Russia investigation and his leadership style.

What was the FBI investigating during Trump's presidency that drew his ire?

The FBI was investigating potential collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign during the 2016 election, which Trump dismissed as a 'made-up story.'

How did Christopher Wray defend his independence during his confirmation hearing?

Wray promised to resist political pressure, stating he had too much respect for the FBI to do anything less than uphold its values.

Why did Trump criticize Christopher Wray during his presidency?

Trump criticized Wray for the FBI's continued investigation into Russian election interference and the execution of a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago in the classified documents case.

What is Kash Patel's background, and why is he controversial?

Patel held national security positions in the first Trump administration and has since become a pro-Trump influencer promoting conspiracy theories, including the 'deep state.'

What does Kash Patel's promotion of conspiracy theories suggest about his potential leadership of the FBI?

Patel's embrace of conspiracy theories, including QAnon, suggests he may use the FBI to target political opponents and undermine institutions that oppose Trump's agenda.

What concerns do critics have about Kash Patel leading the FBI?

Critics worry Patel will act as a propagandist for Trump, carry out political orders, and use the FBI to retaliate against perceived enemies, undermining its independence.

What does the 'deep state' conspiracy theory mean to Kash Patel?

Patel defines the 'deep state' as career bureaucrats installed by a hidden network to control U.S. government agencies, which he views as a target for disruption.

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

Writing a farewell speech is kind of like writing your own eulogy, right? One last attempt to define your legacy and to shape the world that you're leaving behind. So it is worth paying attention to what FBI Director Christopher Wray told his employees on Wednesday when he announced that he would resign at the end of the Biden administration. What absolutely matters

positively cannot, must not change is our commitment to doing the right thing in the right way every time. Our adherence to our core values, our dedication to independence,

and objectivity and our defense of the rule of law. President-elect Donald Trump saw Wray's tenure very differently. He called Wray's resignation a great day for America, the end of the, quote, weaponization of the Justice Department. And he had already announced another pick for FBI director, implying that Wray would be fired at the start of Trump's second term. But the thing is, Trump gave Christopher Wray the job in the first place.

Trump nominated him back in 2017 because he had just fired Wray's predecessor, James Comey. Trump's explanation for that firing changed over time. In an interview with NBC, he said Comey was a grandstander who had left the agency in turmoil. But he also said this. When I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said, you know,

This Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election. At the time, the FBI had been investigating potential collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign during the 2016 election. Trump insisted that he was not trying to kill that investigation.

FBI directors are appointed to a tenure term that is meant to insulate them from pressure from the president. So after Trump cut Comey's term short, the question of independence was at the very center of the confirmation hearing for his replacement. Christopher Wray promised that he would be unswayed by political pressure. I have way, way, way too much respect and affection, frankly, for the men and women of the FBI to do anything less than that.

And I would just say anybody who thinks that I would be pulling punches as the FBI director sure doesn't know me very well. But eventually, Wray's independent actions at the FBI drew fire from Trump as well during his presidency when the bureau's agents continued to investigate Russian election interference.

And after Trump's presidency, when the FBI executed a search warrant at his Mar-a-Lago resort in a classified documents case. Trump talked about it on NBC's Meet the Press over the weekend. He invaded my home. I'm suing the country over it. He invaded Mar-a-Lago. I'm suing the country over it.

I'm very unhappy with the things he's done. And crime is at an all-time high. Soon, Wray will be gone. And the independence of the FBI is again an open question. Trump's new pick to lead the FBI, Kash Patel, has talked about going after Trump's political opponents. Trump was asked about this in that NBC interview. Is it your expectation, though, that Kash Patel will pursue investigations against your political enemies?

No, I don't think so. Do you want to see that happen? If they were crooked, if they did something wrong, if they have broken the law, probably they went after me, you know, they went after me and I did nothing wrong. Consider this. Kash Patel has built a brand promoting pro-Trump conspiracy theories. What can that tell us about his plans for the FBI? From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang.

Support comes from our 2024 lead sponsor of Consider This, Anthropic. Meet Claude, the AI assistant from Anthropic. When you upload company documents into Claude, you're giving it the context to become your subject matter expert and deliver astute and helpful responses. Claude is the AI assistant from Anthropic.

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It's Consider This from NPR. President-elect Donald Trump's pick to lead the FBI, Kash Patel, held several national security positions in the first Trump administration. Since then, he's found money and attention as a pro-Trump influencer promoting conspiracy theories. He's also been a member of the Trump administration's

NPR's Lisa Hagan reports on how those narratives have helped inspire Patel's public threats to go after Trump's perceived enemies. What you're hearing is a promotional music video for a children's book written by Kash Patel. It's about a plot to steal an election from a noble leader called King Donald. The plot against the king.

The plot against the king children's books are a trilogy in which a wizard named Cash, the distinguished discoverer, helps King Donald defeat characters like Hillary Quinton and Kamalalala. Patel started his career as a public defender and later became a federal prosecutor. During Trump's first term, Patel's work as a congressional aide defending the president got him noticed. He went on to hold several national security positions. The

The Trump transition team says that's why Patel is, quote, beyond qualified to be FBI director. Patel did not respond to interview requests from NPR. He wrote another book, this one for adults. It's called Government Gangsters, a phrase he explains in a trailer for a documentary adaptation of the book.

Government gangsters are the group of individuals, career bureaucrats, who have been installed by what we call the deep state into every agency and department in the United States government. The deep state is one of Patel's main talking points, according to Russell Muirhead. He teaches political science at Dartmouth College and studies the impact of conspiracy theories on democracy. The deep state conspiracy refers to the idea that a huge amount

Myrhead says what's important about the deep state idea, whether people truly believe it or not, is how it functions.

It's a concept that legitimizes a project to disrupt or disable the parts of government that don't bend to Trump's will. They have spent decades building this institution of the deep state, and it will take one more Trump term to completely annihilate it and swing an anvil through that place. That's Patel speaking just before the election at a stop of the Reawaken tour in North Carolina.

Patel's contributions to deep state lore made him a popular guest at right-wing events like these. The Reawakened Tour is a speaker circuit and product expo thick with modern pro-Trump conspiracy theories, including QAnon.

Its adherents believe, among other things, that an anonymous Internet poster revealed secret knowledge about deep state collaboration with a cabal of pedophile elites to secretly traffic children and consume their blood. Many QAnon believers also look forward to, quote, the storm, which they anticipate would include mass arrests or punishing the cabal and members of the deep state.

Here's Patel in 2022 talking to pro-Trump influencer Mary Grace. You know, the Q thing is a movement. A lot of people attach themselves to it. I disagree with a lot of what that movement says, but I agree with what a lot of that movement says. Asked to clarify, a Trump transition team spokesperson said, quote, this is a pathetic attempt at guilt by association.

Patel has tended not to focus on the pedophile part of the Q belief system, but he has been a guest on at least a dozen podcasts that have spread QAnon content or related conspiracy theories. Here's Muirhead again. It does seem that he is happy to embrace the whole train of conspiratorial assertions associated with or even that define Donald Trump.

He's happy to embrace QAnon. It delivers him to an audience of sympathetic listeners and watchers. Check out the t-shirts, the hoodies, the Christmastime specials, and so much more. Patel has used his exposure to plug a whole range of products. Which is the hottest selling merch.

In America, our logos, our creativity are out of the world. He's promoted supplements that claim to detoxify the supposed negative effects of COVID vaccines. Patel also sells cash-branded wine. He spells the S with a dollar sign.

At least some of his merchandise proceeds benefit charity through his foundation, which he says has supported January 6th defendants, among others. Every dollar that comes out of the merchandise sales from fightwithcash.com goes right back into the coffer to help everyday Americans. In its public tax filings from 2023, the foundation's first full year of operation, it spent more money on marketing than it gave away.

Patel has also promoted false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump. And last year, he promised payback. We will go out and find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you. That's from an appearance on former Trump adviser Steve Bannon's talk show.

Patel has sued journalists for defamation and recently threatened to sue a former Trump official after she argued he's unfit to lead the FBI.

Charles Kupperman is a former deputy national security advisor to Trump who said he didn't vote for either candidate in the last election. He told NPR he didn't trust Patel when they overlapped at the National Security Council. And he's not impressed with how Patel has spent the last four years. Writing pseudo children's books about King and so forth.

It doesn't strike me as a strong resume for an individual to become FBI director. Patel's government gangster's book includes a list of people he considers part of the deep state. Kupperman is on it, though he says that's not going to stop him from sharing his opinion about Patel. The FBI has traditionally operated independently from the president, but Kupperman now worries. Cash will be a propagandist for Donald Trump.

He will carry out any orders that the White House president gives him, and he will have an opportunity, if he is confirmed at the FBI, to invoke retribution against individuals, and it will not be a pretty picture. A Trump spokesperson told NPR that as FBI director, Kash Patel will end the weaponization of the agency.

For Muirhead, the Dartmouth professor, there's another concern about a conspiracist influencer at the head of the bureau. Maybe the FBI could be used to support, to generate conspiratorial narratives that delegitimate the opposition and empower the regime. Patel has spent the week on Capitol Hill making his case to senators about why he deserves the job.

That was NPR's Lisa Hagen. This episode was produced by Audrey Nguyen and Connor Donovan with audio engineering by Zoe Wangenhoven with additional reporting by Jude Jaffe-Block. It was edited by Brett Neely, Eric McDaniel, and Courtney Dorney. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang.

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