Trump vs. Newsom: Breaking Down the Politics of the L.A. Protests
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Hi, this is Rebecca, and I just got to watch my 11-year-old score his first touchdown in his rec football league. This show was recorded at 1.16 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday, June 10, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you hear this. Enjoy the show.

Congrats on the touchdown. So fun seeing those milestones. I know, right? It takes me back to my youth. I didn't actually play football. But you had a youth. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics. And I'm Domenica Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. Protests against immigration raids in Los Angeles stretched into their fifth day on Tuesday. Shame on you!

As the White House sends even more troops to the city to address the unrest, that's setting up a continued clash between President Trump and California Governor Gavin Newsom.

Joining us to talk about the politics of all of this is Guy Marzarate. He's a politics correspondent at San Francisco member station KQED. Welcome to the Politics Podcast, Guy. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. So let's start with the news. Last night, President Trump ordered an additional 2,000 National Guard troops and 700 U.S. Marines to Los Angeles. Meanwhile, other anti-ICE protests have kicked off across the country in response to Trump's immigration crackdown.

And Governor Newsom in California has sued the Trump administration over the federalization of the National Guard troops. Guy, let's just start there. Can you tell us about that lawsuit?

Yeah, so the lawsuit really rests on two arguments from Newsom and from California's Attorney General Rob Bonta. The first is that Trump did not notify Newsom or get his consent to mobilize the National Guard in California. They point to language in a law specifically saying that these orders have to go, quote, through the governor.

um that language is going to have to be hashed out and to what extent newsom needed to be consulted on this but then the second piece is that same you know law that trump is using to justify this action really lays out that the president needs an invasion a rebellion or a situation where you know he or she can't enforce the law with regular forces and i think as we can talk about that is going to be contested whether you know what we're seeing in los angeles justifies the president taking this move

Yeah, and that is a big question. I mean, Guy, we should be clear. You're based in San Francisco, so you haven't been on the ground at these protests. But what are you hearing from people in L.A. about the size and scope of this?

Yeah, I mean, you know, from our great team of reporters who have been out there, I think what we've heard is protests last night, Monday, generally quieter than demonstrations on Sunday. You did still see reports of, you know, clashes with a few dozen people downtown Los Angeles between protesters and law enforcement. Law enforcement did use tear gas, rubber bullets to try to control the crowds. But I would say, you know, from folks I've talked to in Los Angeles, they're

They don't put this on the same level as just, you know, larger celebrations or kind of civic events that we've seen within the city. There was this one political strategist that I talked to on Monday who actually lives in downtown L.A. And he said, you know, if you put this on the Lakers win a championship scale, if that's a 10, the celebration after the Lakers win the NBA finals, he said this is like a three or three and a half. Hmm.

You know, Domenico, this seems like a fight that the White House is pretty eager to have, I think it's fair to say. The president called in the National Guard and we talked about on the show yesterday how unusual, almost unprecedented it is to do this in this way. Is public opinion on the Trump administration's side when it comes to these immigration raids?

Well, certainly more so than a lot of his economic policies, but his economic policies are very much underwater. So, you know, there was a poll over the weekend from CBS News that found that 54 percent of people approve of Trump's deportation policies, which is in line with a lot of what we've seen in some other polls. Fifty four percent now, we shouldn't say is

like very popular uh... more huge majority but it is a slim majority and higher than some of his other policies so that's why you see trump uh... wanna move a little bit more on uh... you know pushing forward with these immigration policies and deportation policies we also know that of republicans are more trusted on immigration and democrats have been a lot of polls have been showing and a lot of that has to do with the fact that we've seen this big shift

um, in public opinion on, uh, whether or not people think that, um, immigration needs to be increased or decreased. There was a big switch in, uh, around 2020 into the, uh, the, the last few years where we saw, uh,

increased border crossings, where now we have 55% of people, according to Gallup, saying that they think immigration needs to be decreased in the country, only on level with what we'd seen in 2001 after 9-11 and when there was a similar number of border crossings. Of course, border crossings have come down some, but Trump's pitch on immigration certainly hit the right time with the public.

Now, both of you have been covering the politics of immigration for Democrats and the split between the more progressive and the more moderate wings of the Democratic Party. Guy, what does that look like for Newsom right now?

Yeah, I mean, I think we've seen Newsom try to, you know, take some pains in navigating this relationship with Trump. And it's evolved really throughout the year with big ramifications in how he's viewed by the Democratic base. He came, you know, right after the election, called a special session of the state legislature to try to confront Trump and budget money in the state budget to fight Trump in court.

That kind of changed after the fires in L.A., where Newsom took on more of kind of a conciliatory approach towards the president. Then he launched this podcast where he was bringing on more right wing voices that got a lot of criticism from folks on the left. And then now you see Newsom kind of moving back again towards a more pugilistic stance, going back and forth with Trump and his immigration czar, Tom Homan, about this

you know, idea theoretically of officials being arrested in California, Newsom saying, bring it on. I think ultimately I've been thinking about this relationship with Trump is like mutually assured distraction, confrontation. It can be, I think, politically advantageous for both Trump and Newsom and really provide kind of an important change of subject when they need it.

For the governor, that's, you know, as he's confronting this big budget deficit in California, that, by the way, he's proposing to balance by cutting back on Medicaid for undocumented residents. This now puts him in a light of fighting for undocumented residents within the state.

Yeah, I was going to say just as Trump is eager to have this fight over immigration, Newsom really needs to find a way to sort of endear himself to the progressive base because a lot of them have been arms folded watching his sort of about face of having previously been a champion of things like trans rights and immigrants to now having this eye on 2028 where he's taken this more moderate tone and shifted away from some of that and taken a harder line on immigration, for example.

He's got to really walk that line narrowly and having a fight with Trump doesn't hurt. Let's take a quick break. We'll talk more about this when we get back.

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And we're back. We've been talking about the politics around the immigration protests in California. But, you know, we should be clear that there are really two separate issues here. The ICE raids and President Trump's immigration enforcement policy is one thing. And then the protests that have followed and Trump's response to them is another. Is Trump's response to this, you know, sending in the National Guard, is that overshadowing the larger issue of immigration?

Well, I mean there's certainly a risk politically for Trump to go too far. Just because 54 percent of people say that they approve of his deportation policies doesn't mean that that's the way it will stay or that they approve of how it will be executed. I mean I think that that's the real issue here is that people may feel like there are too many border crossings or too many people in the country illegally and they want to –

you know, crack down on that some, but how you do that makes a real difference. You know, a lot of people will say that they, um, uh,

almost unanimously in agreement that hardened criminals, for example, should be deported. But then going in broad daylight into restaurants and schools, that might be a bit different or separating families, for example, things like that. So they do have to be a bit cautious about what their approach is. And so far, there hasn't been a lot of caution to go around.

And I would say just from, you know, it seems like part of the strategy or the bet that Trump is making is to escalate in a way that could then potentially preclude more escalation or justify it, you know, and in some ways, perhaps even getting a city like L.A. to turn on itself, right, to have protests that in response to the escalation, then get out of control and then can be pointed to as a reason, you know, to justify more enforcement.

I think that's where you hear some concern from legal scholars that say, look, if the pretext for a move like this is something as simple as protests, you know, people demonstrating this in the streets with isolated cases of violence or vandalism, you know, you could ultimately end up with broader enforcement happening, you know, throughout the country or broader mobilization of the National Guard without, you know, the support of Democratic governors.

And Trump just took questions in the Oval Office where he doubled down on this strategy. You know, he basically said if protests pop up in other cities, that we'll respond just as forcefully. So there is risk for Trump, you know, in that he might go too far. If it's viewed as too heavy handed, then that could be a problem politically.

But there is also risk for Democrats, you know, looking out of touch with public opinion, looking like the party of chaos and potentially getting painted as radical. So there's going to be a lot that the two sides are going to have to do to try to, you know, win over public opinion and keep it on their side.

We touched on 2028 a moment ago, but it is impossible to talk about Gavin Newsom, who is such a central figure in this story, without thinking about 2028. Beyond his messaging on immigration, what else are you looking for as this plays out and as Newsom perhaps looks ahead to the next few years?

I think California voters writ large believe that Newsom has his eye on the presidency. There was a poll recently that found not only do a majority of voters say Newsom's focusing more on doing things that will benefit him as a candidate than actually focus on governing. But even among Democrats, that question was pretty split. So I think voters, you know, by and large view Newsom as chasing the presidency and

I will say, you know, for the governor, it seems like this back and forth is a lot more comfortable territory for him than, you know, trying to appease Trump or trying to reach out across the aisle. He is one of the most prolific culture warriors in national politics, really the last, you know, this century, I would argue.

And this, I think, is where he feels the most comfortable politically is kind of taking the fight to Republicans as he did after the Dobbs decision, as he attempted to do for Joe Biden on the campaign trail. I think it fits more with who Newsom is naturally as a politician. Lots for him to navigate, at least in the short term here.

We're going to leave it there for today. Guy, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Yeah, thank you for having me. Guy Marzarotti is a politics correspondent with NPR member station KQED in San Francisco. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics. I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.

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