E896 Going Deeper with Dylan Efron
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You're crazy. Dylan, welcome to the Vow Files, man. It's an honor to be here. I'm a big fan. Oh, we're so excited to have you. Yay! Congratulations on being one of the winners of Traders. Yeah, it was a weird ending, but I honestly, like...

That was the best way to end it with people. We were all on the same team at the end of the day. I feel like we're actually recording this before the actual finale airs. So we're not aware of what public audience reactions will be. I think it'll be mostly universally loved. They'll always be the people who kind of roll their eyes because they want the drama. They want someone to really screw someone over at the end.

Totally. Bob Harper said that. He's like, Dylan, you made a massive mistake. He's like, this is a drama show. You needed to cut throats at the end. Do you think that... Well, I guess...

whether it's you or anyone else of your cast, had any one of those people decided to be traitorous, they would have been the individual winner? So no, if a faithful wins, it has to be two faithfuls at the end. And we definitely all had a strategy just in case. Because at the end, you throw stones. So if one of us throws a red stone, we have to vote someone off. So we were doing all the math and being like, all right, who are we going to vote first?

And like, so we were very prepared in case someone threw a redstone, but sure enough, we all threw green first try. What was the plan in case? What was the plan? I don't remember exactly, but I think the plan was to end with me and Gabby. And who knows if Gabby had the same plan I did, but that was my plan at least. Why? Because by that time Gabby was, so Brittany had the seer, uh,

She proved that Gabby was a faithful. I also had come to the same conclusion. So she was in the end, the person I trusted most. Dolores had some red flags again. Like I trusted Dolores and Ivor, but they both had a few red flags where it's like, if you're trying to remove any chance that you're going to lose this game, the smart thing is to, to get rid of them both. Like Dolores voting history was pretty all over the place.

She had Danielle's back. There's enough reason to vote Dolores out and same with Ivory. So I'm happy we ended it. I didn't want to go there, but if we were forced to, we would have. Okay. And who knows? Gabby might have chopped me off first. Did you ever ask her? I haven't, no.

It would have been interesting if Gabby would have been as loyal to you as you would have been to her. Honestly, I'm shocked she was as loyal as she was because you can see in the edit, I was all over her. I was a thorn in her side from the beginning thinking she was a traitor. Do you think part of it had to do with all the finalists not being gamers? And I feel like last season it was... Oh, I can tell you, yeah. A gamer would not have ended it with the four of us. It just makes no sense. You get more money...

Like it makes no sense. Yeah. With TC. Yeah. CT. CT. But people were pissed about MJ getting the boot. So it's. Well, yeah, you're always going to piss off somebody. And like, you definitely are going to get some comments about like you kind of being dirty. Yeah. I think at the end, it really did feel like we were a team at the end and we were just trying to get the traders out. So once we did that. Not to diminish, you know, the amount of money that you could have won had you taking it all by yourself. Yeah.

but like i guess in your place you're thinking like i don't know 100 grand or like everyone thinking i'm kind of slimy yeah and kind of shady you know like i'll it's like let's do that math let's say that i got dolores out next and then we ended with three of us so we would have split 50k three ways i would have got like i don't know the pot was 50k 50k each so if we got rid of dolores

We would have added 50K more to the three of our winnings. 18K maybe? So like I would just ruin my lifelong relationship with Dolores for 18K. After taxes, it's like $9,000. There's no way it's worth it. A lifelong friendship with Dolores. Yeah, I love Dolores. I don't want that to be the end.

And she told me, she's like, Dylan, you murdered me. All right. Well, let's put a pause on Trader's Talk. I want to come back to that. But I also like, I'm just really excited to have you on because it's similar to when we had the opportunity to interview Sam. Sam. I listen. I listen to the podcast. You know, it's just like...

Like I told him, like, everyone knows who you are, but no one really knows who you are. Like, obviously, everyone knows who your brother is. And, you know, he's a big deal and he's super famous. And before you went on the show, like, I was aware of who you were. You know, like the other once in a while, it's just like, Zac Efron's brother. Oh, he's tall.

You know, like, you know, and so there's this like, this kind of, there's been this fascination with you, like that stem from obviously your brother's notoriety and things like that. And then, but we don't, you know, it's like, it was all this from that point, just a lot of, but

Kind of like similar to Sam, it's like you knew the person existed, but you never really heard from them, got to know their personality. If you didn't watch Jor and Zac's documentary, it was this, again, just a lot of like, you were just more Zac Efron's brother. But now I feel like there's like you are...

you're Dylan you know and you've you've become like the star of the show and there's a lot of like interest and I'm excited to get to know you better and find out who Dylan Efron really is thank you yeah that's everything was really nice but I think that's look I one going back to like being known as Zac Efron's brother like I've always said that's a badge I wear with honor like I was

I was raised that way. Like Zach got famous at a young age. How old were you? So Zach was probably 17 when he was famous, like worldwide famous. So that means I would have been 12. And before that, he's my four-year-old bigger brother who's in high school and I'm in

middle school he's already cool like i thought he was the coolest person my whole life so then like of course america's gonna fall in love with him like so like i've got i've been blessed that for all of his success and and the fact that he endorses me as my brother and has always included me on stuff like growing up i gotta see some of the coolest things like i got exposed to hollywood in the best way like i saw the pitfalls i saw the cool red carpets like

I saw it all and was able to watch it from a distance. And I realized at a young age, like, I don't want fame. I don't want to make the most money and live in the nicest house in Hollywood. Like, that's not my goal. So I had that perspective at a young age through my brother. And then you became a production coordinator or something?

Yeah, yeah. Was it Ready Player One? Yeah. The Accountant? That's kind of cool. It was. I worked on some cool movies. How did you end up starting doing that? For people who don't know, that's like real... That's grunt work. Yeah. I was a PA. I did it all. You're getting coffees. You're working shitty hours. You're doing tasks for other people. That's like...

That's like a summer college job. Like, in, like, real fucking, like, character building work. Like, what made you, and shitty pay, usually. And I think that, like, you know when people always say, like, you've never worked a service job? Like, if you were ever a busboy or, like, anything like that, it makes, you can tell the people who have because how they treat people that work those jobs. And it's like, like, I was a busboy in high school. Like, I've been a PA on a film set. Like, I know how these productions get,

I don't know. I've been there. So I think it's a fun perspective for me to see how films are made from every scale in a way. So yeah, I guess taking a step back, I graduated college. I was going to move to Sacramento and work at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. What was your major? Business. And then minored in economics. I had some fun there. I did bull riding as a class. How much did you take advantage, if at all, of being...

you know, not much, not much. Like I had a girlfriend. Okay. Um, yeah, no, no, I look at, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but like my whole life, I do feel like people have treated me really nicely. And maybe that's because of Zach. Maybe like you have nice eyes too. Like it goes back to high to even elementary school. Like I, I used to think that maybe I was a little special because of people like,

special in a way that I would have to go to special reading classes and stuff. Like I did have to go to special reading classes, but I was like, maybe that's why people are nice to me is because I'm like off. Yeah. I think, I think I have a lot of that stuff. I think I have ADD. I was really good at math. So they would actually take me up for gate, which was like gifted kids for math. And

And then they'd give me the boot and put me in special reading class. That was me. I was really good at math. And they're like, this kid doesn't know where commas go. He can't spell either. It was the complete opposite. Sorry. All right. So you graduated from college. Yeah, I graduated from college. And then I got a job at Warner Brothers. I interned for this producer named Ravi Mehta. And he just took me under his wing. So I started as like a trainee coach.

The PA, I became like his assistant. Then I became a production coordinator. And my last movie was A Star is Born. So like some of these movies like Chips with Dax Shepard and A Star is Born. Like I was there on set in Video Village, like getting to see these movies filmed and like a part of this crew. So it was such a cool experience.

perspective for me. Did you get a chance to interact with Bradley Cooper or any of the accountants? Mostly, I would say Chips was one of the highlights for me because Dax Shepard just became a friend and he was so cool to see. He really filmed that movie to just have fun with his friends and it felt like that with the crew. He was just laughing, smiling every day on set. I really enjoyed that movie and A Star is Born was just like

Bradley Cooper is just a professional. So we knew that was going to win some awards and it was cool to be a part of. But I think my issue and why I left was

one i was 26 and everybody else at warner brothers with my same job was in their mid 40s late 40s so i could just see this like future of myself sitting in this desk not enjoying life so like kind of like where do i go from here exactly so that was probably the biggest reason i left and then i was kind of just like frustrated with the hollywood movies that cost 20 million to make and had all this waste like i was like dude we could film this with our friends for like with

crew of 10 people and make something awesome so i i left and started doing youtube oh wow yeah i know i've uh you know being on set you definitely learn a lot and things like that i remember i was on set for something and they brought out like this magazine as a prop and then they were and someone was like someone maybe in production was like you know how much this cost you know and it was like hundreds of dollars and it was like it was like it was garbage

It was an old magazine, but because of all the rules and SAG and yada yada, it had to be a certain prop. And then that gets inflated. And yeah, it's a lot of hidden costs in the production of all these movies. A lot of waste, a lot of sitting around. It's not as glamorous as people think. So how did Down to Earth come about? I remember when Nick saw your tagline on Traders, he was like, oh, that's so nice. I know. I remember saying, oh, this guy's Down to Earth. Does he seem Down to Earth? I'm like, wow. Yeah.

She's like, no, that was the show. That came at the time. Again, this was a while ago, but I was running Zach's YouTube channel. We were coming up with different show ideas. And the original Down to Earth idea was me and Zach traveling together. And I think we both came to the conclusion I wasn't ready for that role really at that time. I wasn't ready to be his co-host on Down to Earth. So...

I ended up actually introducing him to Darren Olyan and that just like took off. It was like, oh, they hit it off. This is the right move. I'll be a producer. And we just started filming down to earth. And it was like the first of its kind, really. It was like it was a new genre. And again, that was fun for me. It was like a small crew of 12 people. We traveled all over the world. What made you feel like you weren't ready to be his co-host?

I think the same reason that I haven't done any reality shows till now is like, I'm not my brother. He was on stage performing it at 12. Like I was playing sports and being an idiot. Like I didn't become comfortable with myself till my 30s. And like, I never wanted to be in the public eye. So I think just like the more I did social media and realized like, I am putting myself out there and this is who I am and I've got nothing to be afraid of.

I started to gain more confidence. Is there any, and you know, maybe there's, you know, a lot of people live with no regrets or whatever, but is there any like envy from either of y'all sides for like the life you live? Maybe it's like the childhood you have. Like, did he ever wish he could just like go and play football with his friends and not be on stage and not be performing and like vice versa? I'm sure. I think it would go both ways. Like at the end of the day, like,

Zach and I are still brothers. We still fight about a lot of stuff. We like, and I think that we have little small jealousies of each other. Yeah. Super competitive. So at what point did you realize that you were going to be taller than him? Pretty early. Like I was, he pissed. Yeah. He was like, he was small for his age and I was really tall for my age. And then there was, so there was a time when I'm like maybe 10 and Zach's 14, we were the same height. And

And then he hit puberty and like got buff and stuff. And I was left in the dust. Pretty soon I caught up. It's like different, obviously, with girls. But I have a vivid memory of my sister and her friends being like, don't worry, like she'll never have as big as boobs as you. And I like one day was like, ah, here I am, bitch. Back to down to earth. So that.

It started on YouTube and then where did I watch it on? No, so that was a Netflix one. Yeah, Netflix. When we originally pitched the project, it was from kind of our YouTube ideation of like, how about we do a travel show? Like, let's tie in sustainability. Like, let's actually try to like have fun traveling, but also see if we can make a minor change.

improvement in the world. And yeah, we didn't think it was going to be anything big. And then it became Netflix number one. Like we were all shocked. Like I was on a road trip when it came out and I see it's number one and trending. I was like, holy shit. Like, cause you never really know. No, we had so much there, you know, it's just like,

It was so number one on Netflix is. And yeah, I think like that type of storytelling is that like, we want to do something similar this upcoming year. We have a project in mind. So I'm always fascinated with people around your age who, who acknowledge or just kind of say things like you just said earlier about like not really being comfortable with yourself until like 30 or late twenties. I, I, I very much relate to that. I remember being like 28 and going through like a pivotal experience, a, a,

a breakup of a relationship and looking back when I was like in my early thirties and kind of realizing like, wow, I didn't really know it. I like, that was like, uh, like I felt like I was an adult when I became 28, not like, you know, because of like shit I went through. Is there any, like what moments in your life, in adult life were pivotal for you where you feel like you, you maybe learned some tough lessons or that were transformative that really can't, maybe you had to go through it, shook you up. You know, for me, it was like a relationship,

couple of relationships with a couple of different girls that are like emotionally just kind of fucked me up. And I had to, you know, learn about like what role I played or, you know, and yeah, at first it's just like, you're a victim of, you know, you know, when you're, when you're, when you're down bad, it's always like, how could this happen to me? And I think part of being an adult was the willingness to reflect about like, yeah, I can still be hurt, but I can simultaneously be upset and hurt and feel wrong and still be willing to like,

look in the mirror and figure out what I can learn from this. Like, do you have any moments like that, that you felt were kind of pivotal defining moments in adult life? It's tough. Like I, my life hasn't been all a cakewalk. There's definitely been some really challenging things that have happened in our family and stuff. So like, I think all of that has prepped me in a good way. And I think I've always had a good head on my shoulder.

my insecurity was more of like just being comfortable as who I am and putting it out there online, if anything. So like maybe just that deep seated fear of, of seeing the fame that my brother had and not wanting to step there and stuff like that. So I can't say there's anything in particular, but I, I feel like I,

Yeah, I've always been, had a pretty level head in that way. What's your love life like these days? I'm in a relationship. You are in a relationship, okay. Yeah, it's a real bummer for all your family. No, it's cool because she's actually not on social media and she works a 40-hour week job. Like, it's cool. How did you guys meet? Originally in high school. We're from the same hometown. Of course she works. High school sweetheart. It works.

It works out really well. Like, it's not like I'm hiding her from the world or anything. Like, she understands the job, like all that stuff. She doesn't really like being on camera. She loves your guys' podcast. I wouldn't know about it. Oh, fair. Oh, really? Yeah. She's the one that introduced me. Love that. Where are your tattoos from? Just different times I've traveled. Okay. Just spur of the moment, like...

this was supposed to be a free tattoo in malta i was going to get on my leg and then it turned into this okay and then this was in costa rica this was the first tattoo i ever got but i just i wanted something like feminine in a way because i thought tattoos are so masculine looking i was like yeah a lot of my tattoos i realize it's like i don't have a a cross a skull bone and i have butterflies and let's see a

puppy dog yeah it's a butterfly it's good it balances it out I wasn't thinking feminine and I just more got him I'm like oh shit this is who I am that does make sense when did you start getting tattoos probably like 26 27 yeah

I always wanted them growing up. I always thought they were cool. You know what the best part about getting a tattoo is like if you've ever wanted a tattoo, it's so easy to get talked out of them. Like your parents will say it's don't do it. You can't get work. You can't get jobs. There's so many reasons to never do it. But once you actually go through, you sit in that chair for a couple hours, you book the reservation. It's like so gratifying to be like, wow, I did it.

Like something I wanted to do. I just did. Yeah. I mean, I've enjoyed the kind of like you, like reminders or, you know, reminders of family members there. They meet their, their meaningful things, but yeah, like, I mean, I didn't get them until I was 40. It was mostly, mostly like just, I was working in corporate America and then I, you know, and then I was like,

I felt like I was too old to get them or something. And then I met Natalie and she kind of gave me permission to lean in. I was like, you're not too old. Yeah, definitely not. Let's do it. Our mutual friend Shug said that you, and I'm going to say like what it is wrong, but you like tie a rope to two mountains and you like free walk or something across it. Yeah, high lining. High lining. That's crazy. How did you, it's like,

Isn't it? You tie a rope to two mountains? It's called highlining. It's like slacklining between two mountains. So like you're way up in the sky.

And you're pretty much tightrope walking. And is there safety measures? There are. Same with rock climbing. Most of the time, these activities are safe. They look really scary. And they are dangerous in a way. But if you're doing them right, they shouldn't be dangerous. Driving is dangerous. Yes, exactly. But it's based on balance, right? Yeah, based on balance. It's exhausting being out there. You have to pull yourself up. It was one of the harder sports I've ever learned.

That's for sure. What made you want to learn that? I'm big into rock climbing. And like, I remember being a kid on a hike, seeing people rock climb. I was like, damn, I want to do that someday. And again, all of a sudden I'm of age and I'm like, what's holding me back from that? Fast forward, I'm out there rock climbing and I see Highlanders and I'm like, damn, I want to do that someday. Have you ever met Dean Ugler? No. Do you know who Dean Ugler is? No, that's a great name though. He was on The Bachelorette, one of the more famous contestants. Very attractive man, like yourself.

uh, big rock climber, big, big traveler, big, he also doesn't, also doesn't, uh, advocate for daily showers. Oh, here we go. Um, do I stink right now? For anyone listening, he smells, well, you don't, I didn't, I swam today, so I got the chlorine, just killed everything. Chlorine, thank God for the chlorine. Chlorine. What, what is up with, uh, you against daily showers? No,

All right. I need to clear the air. Some parts were cut out of that interview. A shower a day is okay. I was saying that people shower too much. And like, I don't think every time we shower, we need to scrub our whole bodies and clean our shins with soap. Sure. Yeah. Like you clean all six cracks and then you're good. I can shower in 60 seconds if I need. Yeah, totally. Six? Six cracks? What are the six?

You're the dirty one over here. One, two. Laura, we go...

I just ran up six. One, two, three, four. Where are these six coming from? I count five. Okay. Armpits. There's like three. Okay. You might have six. So you do. This is getting weird. So you do shower a lot. I do shower. You just don't love soap that much. That might be. I'm not soaping myself crazy every day. Like I'll clean it. I'm not dirty. I'm okay with being dirty. Like I love camping. I love a lot of stuff. Yeah.

When I'm home, I'm clean. But like... So like I love going in the ocean. I'll like rinse off after going in the ocean. But I don't think I need a whole nother soap fest after that. You don't feel like you need to like wash all the salt off? You're kind of like, oh... Well, that happens if I just rinse off, right? For sure. But I don't...

so like i i showered this morning went to the pool and then like showered off in the little showered and then went to the pool yes yeah i'm showering a lot these days yeah i feel like i didn't know it was a decision i was like it's sunny out i'm gonna go swim um but yeah so i woke up and showered believe it or not like a

Like your pool? No, like the one in my gym. Okay. Yes. But then after I did that, I'm just in the right in front of the camera scratching. Okay. We'll cut to the close. Okay. Yeah. So then like, yeah, after the buoy, get over here. After the pool, I just like use the public shower right there. Rinse the chlorine off in a way.

I still smell like chlorine, I'm sure. Did you grow up outside and doing a bunch of swimming and hiking and all that kind of stuff? Definitely. Did you grow up in LA? No, I grew up in San Luis Obispo. So that's what you do there. Is that in California? It's in California. Like Pismo Beach. Have you been to Santa Barbara? It's very similar to that. It sounds like you're just saying like...

You're like mumbling words together. San Luis Obispo. I'm like, oh yeah, there. Cool. Real place. Okay, so you grew up there and you grew up doing all of this stuff. Yeah. So this isn't a new thing that you just picked up. No. It's definitely like... Been always outdoorsy. And it's... Well, yeah. We didn't have many options. It was a small town we grew up in. Like, I'd say on the weekends people would show up to the movie theaters. There'd be like fights. Hang out with girls. It was like... There wasn't anything to do. So my friends and I would... Like road trip. We'd go...

rock climb. We'd go out and just get out of our little town. What extreme sport do you want to try next? I really want to get my skydive license. I've been skydiving a ton, but I always have a guy on my back. I think it takes a while. They're always creepy. It's always weird. You're always trying to fuck your girlfriend. And then it's like...

I don't know. You see like the people that do it solo, they've got like helmets and they're doing cool stuff. Like I'm honestly just like, should we take classes together? Oh, I'm super down. I've only sky dove once. Uh, it was an amazing time. Now. And I were gonna skydive together for my friend Peter's 40th birthday party, but weather did not cooperate. So we ended up not going. And,

I'm pretty sure Dean is like, he does it by himself. Dean also. I need Dean's number. You better DM me after this. You guys have a lot in common. But yeah, I'll... Let's do it. Honestly, it's one of those things that again, it's like skydiving safe. Like...

They have so many backup ways. I don't know. The one time we went skydiving, we obviously had like a million questions and, you know, like, what's it feel like? If you've never skydove before, like, you feel like it's like a roller coaster and it doesn't feel like that because you're already flying, I don't know how many miles per hour when you jump off the plane. So it doesn't feel like you're falling at all. Yeah.

It just feels like you're flying, which is cool. But then you like, yeah, I remember asking them and they were just saying like, you know, like safer than driving. And like the only time you really have skydiving accidents is when you have like the extreme sport guys like doing tricks and testing certain limits. But if you kind of play by the rules and pull the chute when you're supposed to pull it, like it's a relatively safe activity. And then I think that's, that's what draws me to a lot of these sports is like,

there's rational fear and irrational fear. And so much of it is irrational fear. It's like you see someone skydiving, you're like, oh my God, he's falling out of an airplane. And you have all those worries. Like, what if I hit the ground? What if I do all these? That's all irrational. Like once you actually know the equipment,

know you have a backup shoot, know like what to do. Like the margin of error is super small. So I like conquering that. Knowing the difference between like danger and fear. Exactly. So I love conquering that fear. Getting to know you from this, watching this show, I got the impression that you are like many people who listen to this show, a huge reality TV fan. Yeah.

Is that accurate? I am. Yeah. What shows, like, first of all, how did you get into reality TV as a fan and what have been some of your favorite shows? Survivor was the day one. Like I watched all the old school survivors and quite a few of the new seasons as well. So when I showed up to the castle and it was a bunch of like the all time best survivor players, I was like, holy shit. Like if I played survivor now, it'd be with

a bunch of strangers. But here I am in a castle playing with like my childhood heroes. Like that was pretty cool. And I'd seen all of their seasons. So yeah, Survivor was definitely my first dabble into it. And then yeah, my girlfriend just watches a lot of them too. So like I'll just be sitting down all of a sudden I've watched a whole episode of Southern Charm. It's like there's some funny shit that goes down in this stuff. So yeah,

So she got you to watch reality TV. Does she participate in your extreme sports? Yeah. I just posted something of us rock climbing Joshua tree. She's a trooper. She can keep up. Are you team Craig or team page? This is Southern charm. Partly. Partly. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm team page. Page. All right. Are you not? I mean, I, I, I know page, but I know Craig.

So, I mean, I'm rooting for them both. They broke up. That's funny. You just took the Switzerland approach. He put you on the spot and was like, well, I love them both. I barely watch these shows. With the narrative that's online, I don't agree with Paige. I agree with Craig. See, I don't even know the narrative. So, I'm not the right answer. I just know I think Paige is friends with Sierra. Paige is friends with Sierra, right? Yeah.

She is. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's my loyalty. That makes sense. Because I was, I had West's back a little bit in their drama. So I think she's a little. You're going to be in Switzerland again. I was not. You weren't? No, I definitely was not.

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And my fear was that there wasn't that much strategy. Like I love strategy. I love, yeah, I don't know. I love trying to think outside the box. Were you proved wrong? Well, so then I started watching more because I had heard that I might have a chance to be on the show. So I'm like, all right, let's do some research. So I watched like all the UK seasons. I watched the Australia season. I definitely watched more than anyone on the show. So I've seen the game play out in a bunch of different ways.

Do you think that kind of getting back to traders, do you think that helped you? Do you think that benefited you or was it ended up being just a lot of TV that you watched? It definitely benefited me. Probably not as much as I thought it would because the different seasons are different. Like Australia is in a completely different castle.

The UK version, you know what? There's one funny story. So Boston Rob's strategy was to, as a trader, to get rid of anyone who said his name. And he came up with that strategy on his own. He's like, no, no one, everyone's afraid. Like if me as a faithful says Boston Rob's a trader, everyone's like, oh, well, that's safety for Dylan because he's onto a trader. If Boston Rob's a trader. Does that make sense?

Like if you say the name of the traitor, you think you'd be safe because why would they come after that person? It would be so obvious. Like what I did with Bob the Drag Queen. I was saying his name very early. I made it very public, hoping it would give me safety that night. Right. So he did the reverse. He did the reverse. He started to go after those people and then anticipated using the assumed narrative as his protection. Exactly. He did the reverse, reverse or whatever. So...

It's a brilliant strategy, but then like, so. But he almost like had to execute on that strategy too much, it seemed like. Yes. And the flip side is like, I watched a season in Australia that the guy did the exact same strategy and he lost. So like there is someone who's thought of the same strategy and it didn't work out for them. So I don't think Boston Rob watched that season. It seems like a great strategy to definitely make your mark.

on the season yes and and be a focal point but it has its limits it feels like yeah and not win it's a strategy that will make waves but not win almost yeah and look the people the boston robs that are playing this game it is very very tough for them to win like yeah there was probably a one percent chance he was going to win this game just because there is so much lore about these gamers that you

They're targets. Do you feel like that benefited you kind of being this like, no one really knows who you are and they kind of find out like who you are and it's kind of like, oh, you know. For sure. Kind of the same as Sam. Yeah. I actually wanted to bring this up. So I left the castle.

And then the cast has been announced. So I listened to your guys' podcast. Trust me, the bar was very low for me. No, you guys were one of the few... I'm telling you, it's a hot take. Natalie said that she thinks I'm going to win. I did? You did. I'm telling you, that is the hottest take I've heard. And you agreed...

You didn't say it. I think you said that you play, you gotta play the tape, but you said that I could see him going far. Okay. And I'm telling you, that's a hot take because the bar was low. People were like, why the hell is this guy on the show? Really? That's so funny. I don't remember saying that at all, but I stand by it clearly. People said that about Nick when he went on special forces. I remember being like, oh my God, he's not going to last a day. He's not going to. And I mean, he ended up winning that show too. So it is funny how people like have this perspective that like you're

gonna suck and then to like prove them all wrong and it's great place to be in like like I said like the bar was so low for me on this show that because you're just the pretty brother and it's so as soon as I like said the right vote once everyone's like this guy's a genius it's like it's like no I'm very much not a genius but the bar was that low like I literally just had to not go on and

and shoot myself in the foot. And people are gonna be like, that guy actually has a brain. - So did you go, what was your strategy going into it? - My strategy was honestly Sam's strategy. Like if you watch Sam's season, I think he played the strategy that I wanted to do to a T. Like he went in, was very quiet.

But listening to everybody the whole time, it didn't make for great TV in the beginning. Like he was barely in the beginning, but that whole time he's learning the game. He's learning everybody. And then once it was time for him to step up, he stepped up, got a trader. Like he was figuring it out. And that was the strategy I wanted. Like I hate arguing. So I did not want to go into that round table with all these big personalities and argue. Yeah.

Who hurt you the most by betraying you? Was it Boston Rob or Danielle? Oh, no. Yeah, I wasn't hurt by Boston Rob. Honestly, Danielle.

the thing is like I never felt betrayed when I figured out they were traders it's it's very much like crazy amounts of respect that they were able to do that because that show is really hard and what people don't see is like they they're playing the role of a trader 24 7 the car rides the like anytime the cameras aren't on they still have to be a trader like

And pretend to be a faithful. Yes. More importantly. So it's a crazy role that they signed up for. So as soon as I would figure out someone's a traitor, I'm like, honestly, like respect. And it's fun. It's a fun position to be in once you are pretty sure someone's a traitor because then you can see them manipulating you, but you have the upper hand. I feel like the

a great strategy would be, and it's a big, there's a big if because it requires you to figure out who the traders are. But if you are clever enough or lucky enough and confident enough to figure out who the trader is, I feel like the best approach would be like to befriend them and get close to them. Not let anyone know what you think. 100%. And let them think that you think there's no way they could be a trader and get some kind of...

protection without it being any type of actual alliance. And that's absolutely the best strategy. And I got very lucky. Like I think you see in episode one, I tell Danielle, you're my number one. Like that was a strategy to be like, hey, I want to have someone that like I can trust in this game that we're going to go to the end. I said that day one, though, I don't know anything. So like it was just making an alliance.

I had no idea she was a trader at that time. So like, that's very lucky. But that was executing that trader angel strategy. Boston Rob didn't know he was a trader, but like, he's in my alliance. We're super close. So like, there's two. Carolyn, again, day one, we rode in the car together. It was me, Carolyn, and Danielle all in an alliance. So like, all of my closest people were traders. Who are you...

not an alliance with Gabby no like you have a bunch of alliance like I thought I was in a survivor alliance with Tony and and Jeremy and then I'm watching watching it back and Jeremy's like I don't trust that kid so you have a bunch of different alliances but some of them are more important to you than others like my my relationship with Carolyn and Danielle is

I took very seriously. And like when I told Carolyn that Danielle said her name, like I did not want to do that. Like the whole show, I am trying to bring Carolyn and Danielle together. I had no idea what was going on upstairs. Like, wow.

I was like the best. You guys were like, I like you both. Why are you fighting? I'm friends with you both. It just did not click for me. I'm just like, guys, get along. And they're both like, he doesn't know. Like, shut up. So you really didn't take offense to either Carolyn or Danielle trying to manipulate you because they both did, right? For sure. They both leaned on your friendship, character.

Carolyn leaned on the fact that people have judged her for the wrong reasons in the past. And as a fan of Survivor, you know her plight and yada yada the whole time. That's just her trying to manipulate you, I guess, like whatever. Danielle, we've heard from multiple people and the accusations about her swearing on family members and things like that. But you didn't really... It's all fair in the game of traitors? For me, it was a game like...

at the end of this, Danielle just played the villain role to a T. Like, she signed up to be a villain. She knew she was going to be a villain and she is hated by America for being a villain. Is she really hated right now? That's such a shame. It's like, calm down people. She got a lot of flack. More, way more than she deserved. Like, for playing a game in a castle. So like, so that was hard to see outside the show that people were, were going after her so much. But,

But yeah, I just had respect because she played it 100 percent. She was trying to win. Same with Carolyn. I think that one was harder as people always wanted me to say, why did I choose Danielle over Carolyn? At that point,

I knew they were both traders. So it's like, I don't owe either of them anything. And I'm going to do what's best for my game, which was to work with Danielle because we had that trust. Do you think Danielle has any hard feelings towards Brittany? We'll see at the reunion. That comes out at the reunion for sure. I think there's still some, they need to get together off camera and just hash some things out, I think. I appreciate your...

And I would be a little, I mean, I guess I don't really care, but I'd be a little like not surprised, but like it would seem like a double standard of Danielle's given the fact that she played her game and she played it well to your point and she played it ruthlessly and she played to win. So how can she get mad at anyone else, including Brittany for doing exactly the same? It's just like, you know, at the end of the day, like,

Someone crossed her instead of her crossing him. She crossed a lot of people, Danielle. And if it's all fair and love and war or whatever, all fair under the guise of we're playing a game, then it seems weird that she would expect any type of specific loyalty from Brittany. Totally. Yeah.

you know and that's that's kind of my stance on it too that the reunion they they talked about the reindeer games again like whatever happened on that in the elf forest or whatever like that was their show that when when britney like crossed her again and so that they talked about that for a couple minutes like it was heated again and like i think andy's just like what are they talking about like it's not traitors oh we're moving on but like yeah

I think that's the thing is like they call themselves gamers. They're proud of their gameplay. I think we just need to keep that gameplay in the game. And then outside, it's like we can't be offended at what happened. Yeah. So I actually don't think Danielle's mad at Brittany for crossing her again. I think it's more they just have some issues. They need this all. I don't know.

I hope they work through it. I'll be Switzerland on that. Did you enjoy your time with Tom? Yeah, I actually did. So the very first conversation he gets out of the car,

I was like, you look really familiar. And he's like, well, yeah, I'm like, I got talked about in the white house. And like, I was in the most hate. I'm the most hated man in America. I was like, Oh, I was like, I do know who you are from the vile files. And, and like, I didn't realize literally until I get home and tell my girlfriend the story that she was like, you probably shouldn't have, like, that's not a good, it wasn't his best moment. So it's like saying, Oh, I know you from this. Yeah. So, but yeah,

I'm trying to get Tom back on. He does seem like he's in a great spot right now. I mean, he left that trader's house feeling respected. Totally. I was happy for him. I mean, listen, he fucked up. We know what he did. Totally. He...

not a good moment for him and like you know it's sometimes he can be a little stubborn and and like a little like you know make it give the impression he's not like grasping what people are frustrated at him for and you know yada yada yada but like he has redeeming characteristics you know and like it gets frustrating as some like I got to know him on special forces and you got to know him on traitors

And you're just like, I don't know. He's certainly not a perfect person. He's full of flaws. Yeah. You know, like I can roll my eyes and get frustrated, but he's not evil. No, you know, he's definitely not a bad person. I've met way worse people and way like people I would trust a lot less than Tom Sandoval.

Totally. He's absolutely sincere. And like you said, you need that Tom Sandoval friend. If this show is 20 of me, it would have been the most boring show in the world. But the Toms of the world, they're so different than me.

Tom is like, like when that singing challenge happened, it was, he's so excited. That is genuine enthusiasm that he gets a chance to sing. And it's like, it's so easy to make fun of and poke fun of him, but like props to someone that like knows this is a passion of theirs. He doesn't care. He doesn't care. He's going to go up there and sing his heart out. And it's like,

He's genuinely very... He's funny. He's funny. He makes great television. It was a great way to be introduced to Tom, not knowing anything about him. And I can't say our relationship was all roses. There were so many times where we're just butting heads and just telling him to shut up. It was just like we butt heads a lot. But at the end of the day, it's like...

I know he's sincere in everything he's saying. And we actually became friends. So it's, yeah, it was just a fun perspective, not knowing his past and being able to judge someone on what I see.

And I liked what I saw. He's goofy. Tom's like a really strong, unique drink that like you can appreciate once in a while, but it's definitely not your like, you can't have it every day. Yeah. You know? Yeah, absolutely. The bug challenge with him was that you picked him to be your teammate? I didn't know it was going to be bugs. Okay. My strategy with that was, one, I knew I had to distance myself from Boston Rob a little bit.

I just like kind of figured that out. So then I was like, all right, well, who am I going to pair up with? And Tom just immediately stands up and goes, Dylan, be my partner. And I like didn't even, I was just like, yeah, sure. I was like, if it's a physical challenge, we're going to crush it. It's like, I know how to work with him. Like, like I said, we butt heads, but like I can work with him. So I was like, well, we're going to win. And then once we lost, I was like,

I am going to lose this show because I got married to Tom Sandwell. And I was just like, that was... Why did you guys lose? Because it felt like three teams... It went to a tie. ...passed the test. Yeah, like we got all the money we needed to, but then only one of the teams was going to get a shield. And we didn't get the shield. Yeah, I was pretty impressed in that moment by you. That was great. I probably could have done it, but I would have been a little squirmish. It was so funny because, again, like...

I thought Tom was going to crush it. He was on special forces. I was like, we got this. And then as soon as it starts, he puts the death grip on my hand and he looks up, up here and he's like, yeah, this is, this is nothing. We're all good here. And I was like, Oh no, like this is, this is a phobia. And I immediately like switched gears from like,

this is all fun to like working with Tom on special for it. He was like, Tom was the guy who's, you know, if, if it was a real military situation, he would run into the battle without thinking twice. He actually passed the most challenges. I'm not surprised. I'm not, yeah, I'm not surprised at all. He struggled with the taking the directions and the emotional regulation aspect of it. But the actual, like, uh,

He was an absolute animal. I believe it. He did have a funny meme of him running up a hill or something. I don't know if you saw that. It was a pretty funny run. It was like an anime character. Would you do Special Forces? Yeah. That all sounds fun to me. You would do very well. I would be disappointed in you if you didn't finish. I would... How did you get injured? I would do some research and try to figure out all the strategy and stuff, but...

far no there's no strategy yeah like tell me to jump off like off a boat onto a helicopter like I would pay to do that so like and that shit's fun yeah that's the fun part it's there it's survive it's true it's the strategy is mental survival and and not quitting and yeah I would love that

getting no food, no sleep, feeling fatigued, feeling emotionally weaker every minute of every day and literally being like, if I can get 10 more minutes, it's 10 more minutes. And you get 10 more minutes, you're like, all right, well, 10 more minutes. And you do that for three days. That's got to be fun to look back at though. Oh, one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. I don't even know how many people watched it. It was certainly not as popular as Traders, but just the...

personal experience uh there is very cool and that's the draw to do that show and i was very like i'm i'm

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So what's next for you? What is next for me? I'm just open. I've done a lot of things and I, let's see. Like my bread and butter is travel shows. So I want to keep doing those like on YouTube, making documentaries. Like I love that like micro type of show where it's like the camera's there with you and you're in a foreign environment learning something. Like did you ever watch Dirty Jobs? I've seen it.

Like that's like my favorite thing. Like just being out in the world, seeing something you're unfamiliar with and learning and the camera being there, learning with you. Like that's my...

That's my favorite thing. So I want to do more of that, but I'd be open to acting. I'd be open to more shows. So you would be open to acting now? Yeah, I would. Now that you've got a little bit of a taste and a little bit of notoriety, this experience of being kind of thrusted into the limelight and getting a little bit of attention and fame, it's been okay? Yeah, I don't think anything's changed for me really. But the acting side is more like,

Again, as a 12 year old, I was like, I will never act. It's not who I am. And that was just setting a, like limiting myself in a way where I do think there are quite a few roles that I could do well in. Like, I'm not going to play Ted Bundy tomorrow. Like my brother, like he has put in hours, countless hours of work, perfecting his craft.

There's a lot of roles that are similar to who I am as a person. What would be a fun role that you saw that you were like, I could do that? Into the Wild or something like that. The old survival movie. That would be freaking awesome. Yeah, there's so many. Have you studied acting at all? No, but I think that's also fun. Because I think you can learn on the spot. You can hire acting coaches. And there's something authentic about when you haven't done all that.

Are you the type of person who would lean on your brother given the fact that, like, listen, he's at the top of his game, he's got connections and access, or would you stubbornly not want to do that

Because you want to like prove to yourself that, you know, you can do it without the help of your brother, but, or are you just like, fuck it. He's my, one of my best friends. Why not? Why not have him help? I would ask him for sure. I would ask for help. But again, it's like, I don't want to jump into it. I'm not going to be like guest starring on stuff. And like, I, I'm happy where I am. Like I, I, I love what I do on social media. I love like this life that I've kind of crafted outside of stardom. So like it's,

If the right role comes, I'm going to jump on it. What about marrying your high school sweetheart? Do you think like that? Is that something you're into? Or are you guys just like going to be boyfriend and girlfriend forever? No, that's definitely not. She sent in that question. She knows the answer. She knows the answer.

We're working on it. Okay. Oh, so there's, there's a deadline. No, there's no, Courtney. So down to earth, she would never like, look, we're at 30. I'm 33. She's not going to put a deadline on me, but so you guys have like a, it seems like a healthy, we've known each other forever approach to this relationship. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I am now in that stage, like I am looking at the next chapter. I want kids. I want, I want to, yeah, definitely. Like I've got a little brother and sister that are like,

four and five now. So I like, I've got to see the joy of like them growing up. And I want that for myself too. Do you see yourself being more of a girl dad or?

It's tough. So like as soon as Olivia was born, I immediately became a girl dad. Like I wanted a girl so bad. And now that they're getting older, I went to some dance recitals and like I'm seeing that side of it where like Henry is just like me. Like me and Henry, like I'm telling Henry which plants are edible and he's just sticking them in his mouth. He's like throwing like plain fetch type stuff. Like he's just me and like

and falls down and he'll play baseball. Like I see myself as both, honestly. I would love to have both. That's a tough one for me. Is there anything that you are afraid of? You seem like you really just like go head first into anything. Yeah.

Is there something out there? No, I'm still afraid of it so much, but I just love proving myself wrong. And I think that goes back to the acting. It's like, that is something I was afraid of growing up, but I want to prove that I can do it. So what about insecurities? I still don't like public speaking. Like, like you said, this feels like I'm talking to friends and it's like very casual, but like tell me to go like on stage and give a speech. That's like a nightmare. Yeah.

I didn't even want to speak at the round table. You were, you really were, I mean, at first you were pretty, there was a moment early on where you, I almost was like, I don't know. He's kind of outspoken right now. And he's,

he's almost too bright you know and then you calm down yeah calm down is maybe the wrong word did I mean it was I think when you went after Bob the Drag Queen was his response when he kind of jumped at you and called you you know misguided and said your brother sucked at acting or all the you know did that kind of make you feel like you know what

It didn't like, so like the whole, like my mindset on that, I was like, I knew I had to say his name at the round table because of, I wanted that safety net. Like I wanted everyone, I had told enough people his name that he knew I was saying his name, but if I say it at the round table, then if I die the next day, if they murder me, it's going to put a major red flag on him. So yeah,

I knew I had to say something and I knew I was going to get destroyed. Like it was just like before I, the words even came out of my mouth. I'm like, I'm going to get chewed up so bad. So it was like, I knew what I was getting into my takeaway from that.

was that after we finished Bob the Drag Queen was just like hey props for doing that and like treated me like an equal which was so like that would that meant a lot to me because he easily could have doubled down and just been like that's what you get for for speaking up against me like I put you in your place type thing and just bullied me a bit so he he was even like he was playing the game he was playing yeah and that's the best part of Bob the Drag Queen he's he's just a performer he is the most quick-witted person that castle and

And like, as soon as it was over, he's like giving me a hug and being like, Hey, you did great out there. Like that's Bob, the Bob, the drag queen that I know. So like, I would never get offended if he, if he did that. How many nights did you go to bed? Like seriously, like thinking, Oh fuck. I don't know if I'm going to survive this. There was like, I was super like, if you watch back, I was getting shield after shield after shield. That was one of my strategies going in was like, I'm going to get every shield. And like, that's how I'm going to win this game.

So I think I got five shields in the first six missions. And then I went on the worst dry spell ever. And I was going, I was like, I'm dead. I'm dead. And it was because I thought Gabby was a traitor. And then that's how I eventually realized she wasn't a traitor. How is watching it back then? Super fun. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's just like reliving it. It was fun. So it's fun to see the conversations you weren't a part of. Yeah.

when Sam was like trying to guess what Alan wore or he made Carolyn guess, like I wasn't there. I was like, thank God I didn't walk in. Cause I would never have known what you are. So it was a good strategy. It was like really clever. It was smart. It was very interesting talking to Sam just because I was like, man, this guy is not who people think he is. He's so low key and down to earth. I was just hanging out with him like two days ago. Did you, I mean,

I mean, I know she left early, but Chanel Ion, did you get? Oh my God. Yeah, she came in. You guys got a dose of her. We had fun with her. She's the best. Like, I really hope that she gets invited back for next season because there is so much fun and drama that she brings that just did not make the screen. Yeah. She's one of a kind. Do you think, uh,

they bring her back and make her a traitor oh my god please do she will put up a performance like we've never seen what would you think about you being like did you go in like just wanting to be a faithful were you open to being a traitor i wanted to be a faithful okay i was afraid like sam just flat out tells alan i want to be a faithful i was afraid that they'd feel like slighted by that being like oh so i i tried to keep it open-ended being like yeah i'm down for either

I my two best scenarios were to be a faithful or to be a faithful that was recruited as a trader but I did not want to start off as a trader yeah I you know if I ever got the opportunity uh I would you should do it for sure I it's it's really just like if I have the if if I get asked and I have the like I've been asked before it didn't work out like it wasn't like a you

ego thing or it wasn't like oh this isn't a show i wouldn't do it just was like i just had a baby that wasn't that why you didn't go was that or just like just the show it's just like you know it's like you're i had i had to work around some other obligations and it didn't work and blah blah blah but like it would be a lot of fun if i'm worried that i would have a target on yes i was gonna say if i if honestly if it was between you two i think natalie would do better

I think you might get the Wells treatment where it was like everybody trusted Wells, but they all knew he was capable of being a traitor. And it's very, it's a hard spot to be in. The only thing I would have going for me over Wells is that like, also this is assuming people know who we both are and know our quote unquote reputations is that like Wells has this like good guy. Everyone knows Wells is smart, but he's also like this,

affable, everyone loves him. So even I was thinking when I heard he was casted, oh, he would make a perfect traitor because everyone loves him and he would be this guy. Where me, it's like, yeah, people might think I'm smart, but sometimes people think I'm

the bad boy or you can't trust me or like I was the villain on bachelor nation or I would make the good trader. And I, I, my hope, if I got a chance to do it, that that would, cause I would prefer to be a faithful to like, I don't, I, I don't think I'm a good liar. I mean, I know I did well on special forces, but that's not the same as like lying every day.

And I love the idea of like trying to hunt who would be the traitors. And I really, I do think I could be good at that. I think that, that, that would be the second risk for you is that like in our season, you can tell they were going after people who can, are well-spoken. So like if you are well-spoken, put together a cohesive argument, you're a threat to the traitors. Yeah. So the, I would try to play dumb as much as I could, but I don't, I don't know how long. I would love to see you on the show. I don't know how long I could, how long they would get it.

I'd get away with that. Did that last argument from Gabby to Danielle kind of win you over in the like, maybe Gabby's not a traitor department? So that roundtable when Gabby went after Danielle? Yeah, yeah. And Danielle went after Gabby. No, I already, Gabby and I were in an alliance there. Like, I think earlier in the episode, you see me talking to Ivers saying like, I might vote Gabby and stuff like that. That's, that's the conversations you have in the morning when you don't want to

Show your cards. Okay. So then me and Gabby had a conversation where we realized that we need to get Danielle out tonight. And I was like, you're going to have to do a lot at this round table. Cause like, I'm not going to speak up the same way. So I was like, you're going to have to go at her. So me and Gabby were very much aligned. Um, and we knew Dolores was going to throw away a vote. And then me talking to Danielle was me waiting till the very last chance to

to give her a heads up that like hey your name's getting brought up and I did that just because like I don't want to like blindside a girl that I've been working with this whole game so closely so I tried to wait till the very last moment to give her the heads up so she couldn't go and strategize was there any split second when she was like begging you to put Ivor's name down instead of hers that you no no no

But at that point you kind of looked like you got to stand by your gun. I knew what I was doing at that point. I know, but it was just the way she's like, Dylan, please, I'm begging you. She was laid it on. Yes. And I can't like it hurt. It was definitely hard to be in my, my body at that moment. I wasn't going to change my vote. What's the best way for someone who would go on that show to try to change the minds of people who are like coming for you?

What do you think Wells could have done differently? Now that you can hindsight being 2020 and you can assess his game. Did he make a wrong move or was it just bad luck? No, I don't think Wells made a wrong move. I think, and he might have even said this before, but I think maybe when he first got accused, it was so shocking to him that he maybe got a little aggressive rather than defensive or something like that. Maybe he was...

i think he was so shocked that people were putting his name out there so that might be the difference between him and i if i got the opportunity is that like i'm kind of i'd go in being like i'm first i'm gonna be first like i'm like someone's gonna come for me they're gonna be some housewife has said some shit about you know on the fucking show or whatever and like you know someone's gonna know of me or know who i am you know from the podcast space and i'm i'm gonna you

you know and so I'd just be kind of ready for that as opposed and I would like I think I'd try to play the card of like

come on like it's almost the opposite of wells where it was like it's i'm too obvious the best thing that wells did though is like when you can be genuine in your like there there's definitely a moment where wells is like his eyes got a little watery and you could tell he was genuinely like upset oh yeah oh yeah so like i think that's the best thing you can do when you can show with your heart and your emotions like hey i'm telling the truth like i'm gonna go up there and

and you're like, like that, that when I saw him with tears in his eyes, I knew he was a faithful, but again, I was in this alliance and I wasn't a hundred percent sure. I didn't want him to go home. But at that point, it's so early. Everyone's just guessing. Totally. People are, it seems like people are not voting for the traitor is they're just voting to not be eliminated. Eliminated. Yeah. So yeah, I think if he would have started that argument with

those tears in a way like you believed danielle's tears the whole time no but what yeah i believe so obviously when carol when carolyn got eliminated what did you think of that whole i know it you know like what she was really going for yeah because i knew she was a traitor at that point so i wasn't gonna run over there and console her so yeah

Yeah. At that point, look, I knew that I was very convinced that both of them were traitors and it was a weird perspective seeing them act. Do you think, I thought in this, the moment with the chess board, obviously the, that Carolyn and Danielle were able to manipulate when she said Tom and Dolores kind of pointed that out and she was like, I'm not saying you're a traitor. And she kind of got really defensive. Do you think her getting defensive is what

like put the target on her back. I think that was showing people for the first time, but let me step back even further. So again, like we just had the funeral. Chrishell gets murdered in the funeral. Right. So now we're playing the game this morning of like, why are we still here? So for me, I'm like, Gabby would never have just murdered her friend and not murdered me. So I'm like, Gabby's a faithful, a hundred percent. So now let's play that game for Tom. I'm

And it was, why the hell is Tom still here? Gabby would never have voted. Like she would have voted for Tom the first day. So who is keeping Tom in the game? Like who likes Tom? And then it clicked for both of us. We're both in the car together. We're like, oh, it's, it's Carolyn. Carolyn's the one that defends you. Like whenever, if anyone's talking bad about Tom, it's she, she, she has a huge heart and she hates to see it. So she was always defending Tom.

So then we kind of realized we're like, oh, Danielle's protecting me. Carolyn's protecting you. Then we get out of the car and we go to this chess game. And it was like, this is our highest suspect list now. Yeah. We go to this chess game and it was like,

Carolyn messed up. If that was the first moment ever, maybe I would have been like, huh, that's a red flag. There was literally a look on your face and you're just like... But going in, I was like, oh my God, she just confirmed what she's like, everything we just said in the car. So it was, that was not the first flag. It was like, that was the cherry on top for us. That makes sense. I do feel like if she...

Because Dolores was like, well, you were the first one to say Tom. And she's like, no, I wasn't. I wish. I feel like if she would have been like, well, you know, he was really pitching himself and kind of like went along with it instead of getting so defensive. Maybe it wouldn't have been as bad. And look, Carolyn played an incredible game through eight episodes. Yeah. Like she was absolutely undetected until that car ride with Tom. I mean, like having a chance to meet her for like 15 minutes and talk to her like she was

It's hard. She's hard to read, hard to read. And that's what, that's the flip side is it's also hard to be in an alliance sometimes because like we're me and Danielle, we're having one conversation a day and it was so coherent and cohesive. Yep. We're still good.

Carolyn and I would have opposite conversations where like, I did have her back a hundred percent, but she's telling me I don't. And then we're both in tears. And we had that conversation a few times. So it's like, as much as I did trust Carolyn, I didn't trust her as much as Danielle at the end, because like, it was hard, it was harder to work with her that way. Back to just you, uh, like what, what, what do you think makes you who you are in terms of like, yeah, your, your character, your, your,

You know, you do seem like a really grounded... Down to earth. Down to earth. Like, you know, just like nice guy, right? And like, I think there's a lot of people who could look like you, who has a very famous brother, and it's like a recipe for douchebag.

It really is. And, you know, you don't seem to be. I mean, I'm sure you've had your moments. We've all done things that we regret and we have had to learn. But, like, where do you think that comes from? Good family and good friends. And, again, like...

Maybe having good goals too. Like again, I think like I said earlier, it was like fame was never my goal. And like when I left Warner Brothers, I was like, man, if I could make 70K a year and like that's enough for me to have a great life. So like I was never about making so much money that I could buy a Rolex or anything like that. Like I really like my priorities were being in nature, like being

Being with the people I love, like I, like my girlfriend grounds me, my family is super supportive. So I just, I think it's all the people I I'm with. I don't know.

It's a tough question to answer. Like, why are you great? I don't know. But I was just curious. I mean, yeah, just like what you would attribute that to. Yeah, definitely my upbringing, I guess. Because I'm blessed to have some friends, like all my high school friends I'm still so close with. What's your favorite family tradition? It was going up to Oregon to visit my grandparents. That was always something I looked forward to because we'd ski for two weeks and see my aunt and uncle up there.

Now it's pretty much like anytime I can get up to see my little brother and sister, that's the highest on my priority. So like I took them to Montana last year. It's just like, it's so fun to be able to share the cool parts of my life with them at their age. - Favorite holiday? - Christmas, just 'cause all my friends are home, my family's home. So Christmas is definitely that time. - Are you a good gift giver? - No, I'm so bad. - What's your love languages?

Definitely not gifts. I don't want anything from anyone. I don't want to. I hate even wishing people birthday. I'm so bad at it. Oh my God. I know. It's not my. Getting gifts as an adult almost feels like an obligation. It's like, what do I have to do? Yeah, I'm bad at that. Love language is definitely acts of service. That's how you show it or that's what you want? Oh, that's what I love. Yeah. It's generally the same. Yeah. Yeah.

If you, yeah, I mean, generally speaking, if you like to show love through acts of service, it's also just generally how you like to receive it too. Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah. So not gifts for sure. Acts of service is number one. Yeah. Like if someone, if someone makes me dinner, that's like the best feeling in the world. It's like that type of thing. Like when you can tell that some, because...

I know how hard it is to think of someone and if someone makes you a cake type thing, like they had to do a lot of stuff. They had to go grocery shop. They had to go cook.

all for this little cake it's like effort the effort yeah the effort is transparent yeah the effort is what i want and that when i see someone put effort into something for me like yeah makes me tear up do you have a moment from your childhood that like sticks out as a really good memory yeah honestly it's like there's no moment in particular but the road trips with my best friends we just didn't know what we were doing we're getting in over our heads and like

We'd go camping and forget the tent at the house. And then we're like sleeping in the woods with like a shirt. Camping and forgot the tent? Yes. With like shirts over you? We trusted my friend Evan to bring the tent and all he brought was a tarp. So then we're like in the woods. It's freezing. We're all like huddled up together like the movies. Like stuff like that. It was like we were just...

naive kids that were growing up in the woods. And like, those are absolutely my favorite memories, like driving through death Valley. Like we didn't even tell our parents we're going there. And now all of a sudden we're like 10 hours away and,

Our car is breaking down. Stuff like that. We just grew up together doing stuff we probably shouldn't have. Those are my favorite memories. What's your biggest relationship pet peeve and then just a pet peeve in general? Relationship pet peeve? Yeah, I was paying attention to you guys' nighttime ritual. Yeah.

Do you agree? Whose side are you on? I'm on your side for sure. Thank you. What specific part? The person in bed should be able to stay in bed. Yeah. And the person who's not in bed should go... Like, my question is, how big is your damn house? Because...

Not big. And for it to be a big deal for you to go back to the kitchen and grab water, it's like... Exactly. It wasn't about me. It definitely was like... It's if it was like, oh, I had to walk three flights of stairs. It was maybe 50 steps. Yeah. Go get the water. No, it wasn't about the water. I had gotten the water. He needed to get the remote. It was the remote. And he didn't want to watch TV. Let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's

Your beautiful girlfriend's in bed. She wants to watch TV. You've done three rounds of favors for her already. You've set the house down. You've gotten her some water. You've done your nightly duties. And then she wants to watch TV. And you're like, oh, you're ready for bed. You're tired. You're ready to go. And then she's just like, I can't find this remote. I need you to go get the other remote. And you're kind of like, you know what? That sounded like an order and not a request. And

And you being an acts of service guy, I would think that like the whole point of like being an acts of service guys is feeling like you did something generous as opposed to like your job. Yes. And I couldn't help but wonder like, yeah. So in those, in those parameters, you, you've never been like, no, I'm not going to do it. This is why you'd be dangerous on the traders. That was a good argument. Uh,

But I did carry his child and give birth to her. So I don't really feel like I need to be getting up once I'm in the bed. I think that's tough because then you're like watching TV in bed is that's if you don't like that. Are you against it? Are you one of those? I don't like watching TV in bed. Or if I like if you were going to do that, I'd want you on your laptop with headphones. What? Crazy. You don't like to be like cozy? Okay. So

I don't have a side anymore. But what is, do you have a relationship pet peeve? It is a funny one. We both like to listen to audio books when we fall asleep or like audio, some kind of audio.

and we fight over whose audio we're gonna listen to. It's like, are we listening to Jeff Lewis? We both agree that we can listen to Vile Files. But otherwise, I have the stuff that I wanna listen to is she really doesn't want to. So we fight over that quite a bit. But that's not a big bet. - Do you cook? - Yeah, I love cooking. - What do you like to cook? - My girlfriend laughs 'cause I'm not a good cook, but I always taste great. So she always says there's secret ingredients. - What's the difference?

Because I think a lot of people have recipes and stuff like that. I'm much more like... I much more have like... I get to meet...

I'll put like rice in it. I'm cooking it all in the same pot, like one at a time or something. I'm very unorthodox cook. And I'm putting barbecue sauce and glazing it with balsamic vinegar. I'm like doing a bunch of different Italian, Mexican spices. Okay. It tastes good enough. Yeah. So she always thinks there's like a secret ingredient because she's like, if I made this, it wouldn't taste as good. Does she cook much? Yeah. She cooks. She's 70, 30 probably. She cooks more than me.

I was thinking about this last night, you know, what makes now and I work or for the most part, I would say like 80% of like the shows we like to watch, food we like to eat, places we like to go. It's similar. So like there's not a lot of debates there.

And then what difference is like household chores, like I'm allergic to laundry. Now he's allergic to washing dishes in the sink. And so like, I just, I wash, I pretty much wash all the dishes. I can put things in the dishwasher. I pretty much clean the kitchen other than like, now you'll put things in the dishwasher. Even the things that shouldn't go in the dishwasher pisses me off. It's fucking crazy.

Like you don't have to put the pot. I'll wash the pot and pans. Like we don't put my knife in the dishwasher. Like it's not meant for the dishwasher. Like I got this is my knife. I'm still learning the dishwasher. I've never lived with one. Natalie just throws everything in the dishwasher. It's just basically the dishwasher for Natalie is a place to hide pots and pans that she refuses to wash. Sometimes if I'm out of town, there'll be like four pots

Like four pans. When Nick's not there, I feel so free. I'm like, I can put the knife. He'll never know. The knives, the pots, the pans, everything's in the dishwasher. But again, I fucking hate laundry. Washing clothes, not so bad. Folding, I would live out of a dryer. Like in my single days, it would like do a load of laundry, put it in the dryer. And then for the next week, I'm just pulling stuff out of the dryer. Yeah.

I swear it takes me like an hour to fold like 10 shirts. I fucking hate it. But like, it's so works for us because like she, the things that I hate, she likes and vice versa. That's great. That's a good relationship. What, what, what like, do you rather think or. Yeah. So like, I'm still figuring out the dishwasher. I just moved. I've never had a dishwasher. So like, I, I, yeah, I'm figuring it out. Like I'm putting the stuff that's shouldn't go in there, in there. Um,

Yeah, so that's new. She knows. I like whoever cooks the other person cleans up after cooking.

Ideally, that would be nice. I won't let her cook. We do have a baby that needs to be bathed. It is nice. Natalie bathes wherever I can clean the kitchen. Yeah, that's good. We do have our nice... We never really even had to negotiate that. Who vacuums? Not me. I don't like vacuuming either. Other than the kitchen, Natalie cleans the whole house. I think that's part of growing up. Realizing that

Realizing that like... You can keep doing... The dishes... Because it doesn't matter... And she's going to pick up... The slack somewhere else... Yeah... Like I... Hate vacuuming... So like... I'll... Fill the water tank... Or something... I'll do something else... I'll try to pick up the slack... It's so funny... It's like... There was like this... Some post or something... Somewhere that was like...

what do your husbands or partners do like if you're getting ready for a big event at your house you know thanksgiving at your house you're hosting whatever like what are your husbands or partners or boyfriends doing to like help you and it was like mine cleans the garage it's like mine goes and gets his car vacuumed it's like this stuff that you're like no one's gonna see that no one cares but like thanks for getting that done you know yeah

So you're like, I'm refilling the water tank. Yeah. Do y'all live together? Yeah. We just moved into, again, that's how I got my first dishwasher. I was in a one bedroom apartment for the longest time. So that was like kind of our thing was like, let's get some more space.

And that'll lead to a happier relationship because we were on top of each other in a one bedroom. So like if we have space, we can be in different rooms. We can figure this out. But I think a lot of our fights were that. Like I like to say that in school, I was like a B minus student. I like did enough to pass. So when I make the bed, it's like it's made. It's made. Yeah. I'm not fluffing the pillows. I'm not folding stuff. I haven't made a bed since I...

Since maybe middle school. You didn't have to in special forces. It's crazy. There was no bed. It's crazy. Yeah, there's no bed. Sleeping on rocks. Well, you have a sleeping bag. So making your bed is folding your sleeping bag and putting it in your Birkin. But it is crazy because he loves a maid bed.

now i've been like why isn't the bed he won't do it but he loves i've definitely been like what's what's going on here like why haven't you done your your chores as the clean sheets go crawling is one of the best feelings yeah but before i like it's actually in a healthy relationship i don't think i ever had a made bed

That's how I would be. What do you want to leave us with? Anything you didn't get to talk about or say? Oh, yeah. I have a new documentary I'm releasing this weekend, which is cool. Just on YouTube, but it's probably the thing I'm most proud of. There's no just on YouTube anymore, man. YouTube is one of the most watched platforms in the world. And I think that's kind of my style. We could have tried to sell this or put it in...

put it like enter it in festivals, but we're just proud of it. We want people to see it. Like that's really all it is. And I think it's my favorite project I've done to date, but it was me and my main videographer. Who's just now at this point, like my little brother, like we've traveled the world together. I met him when he was 18 and yeah. So like we, we figured out how to create content and like just navigated this world together. And then this,

this is kind of like our big project together. We went to Guyana, South America. So we went to Guyana because we heard this story about this, this tiny village that lives in the Amazon, the indigenous village that saved this species of fish from extinction. And this fish is the Arapaima. And it's like,

It's they grow to 10 to 15 feet long. They're just like prehistoric looking fish, but that fish was going extinct. This small village was like, Hey, we need to protect this fish. They turned it into like, they decided to protect them by fly fishing. So they turned it into like a catch and release fly fishing operation. The fish is doing great. Now the village is doing great now. So we went out to kind of interview the guy who started it all and catch one of those fish. So it's a,

just one of those stories that like, I'm blessed that I even heard of. And the fact that I got to go out there, meet Roven, like this. When does that come out? That's this weekend. So this weekend. So tomorrow, Saturday, this isn't come out on Friday. Yeah. It's, it's, it's on, it's 30 minutes. So it's short, but it's action packed. Like we are out there in the jungle fishing with indigenous Guyanese people. It's, it's really, it's really cool. It was a, it was an experience. Well,

Well, buddy, it's been great getting to know you better. Congratulations on winning Traders with your peers. It's been really fun getting to know you. I hope to see more of you. Maybe you can come back and talk some pop culture and reality TV. Dude, I'm in. Or even next year when Traders comes out, you can strategize and talk the show with us when it's on, man. I love it. You guys make this look fun. It was...

It was everything I thought it would be from listening to your show. Well, thanks for listening, man. We're always flattered. Can you bring Courtney next time? I'm going to have to. You're going to hear the good secret. We'll have to double date. Can we double date? I'd super down for that. She'd love that. Courtney will be so stoked. Well, great getting to know you, buddy. Yeah, same. Thanks for listening, guys. We will see you on Monday. Bye.

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