E903 Going Deeper with Barbie Ferreira
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right now and what I wear every day of my life because it is the bra that you forget you're wearing. Shop Skims Best Intimates including the Fits Everybody collection and more at Skims.com and Skim stores. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. You're crazy. Wait, you worked on Unpregnant with Suge. She's like a family friend, Sugar Lynn Beard. She like watches our daughter. And she's those amazing boys. No, she's...

Miss Rachel. Like, all of our friends are like, oh, does your daughter watch Miss Rachel? I'm like, we have a Miss Rachel in person. Real life Miss Rachel. Real life Miss Rachel. Oh, I love her. I've known Chug for 10 years. I love her character in it too. She's like, it's chilling. I was like, what?

crazy lady. I mean, it's so funny because she's so the opposite of it, but she's so cool. It was so cool. It was my first movie. Really? It was in New Mexico, baby. Albuquerque. I've been to New Mexico once. Ben, you got your do not disturb on your phone? Henny. What's crazy is that people, no matter how much you tell them to silence their phone, because I did a play and every night, every single show, there would be

a phone going off every single show. - Are you serious? - Every single show. I also think that people, like some people are just like not really in tune with their, I think it's a lot of like the older folks. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - They're like, "No, it's been off for years." - Nowadays with me, I feel like my phone just decides to go on Do Not Disturb. - Yeah. - And then you just assume it's always on Do Not Disturb and then-- - And then you don't, I love a Do Not Disturb. - Oh, pssst. - D&D, baby.

I'm always like notify anyway. Notify anyway. I used to do that. I used to do that and my friend did that the other day when I was like in rehearsal and I got so mad and I did it so many times. I was like being such a hypocrite. I was like why would you do that? She's like that's all you do. Does it actually like notify? Like does it like ding ding? I was like ding ding. I was like ding ding.

I was like, excuse me. Sorry, everyone. I'm sorry. I thought I was on Do Not Disturb. Did not know. And I was on Do Not Disturb. How about that? But yeah, a lot of people, literally every single show was that. And then some people had like really like crazy ringtones, which I didn't know was still in 2025. And it would just be like a song playing or like the Star Wars theme. I used to wake up to a sound tone of Tommy Boy with Chris Farley. Okay. When David Spade was knocking on the door. Oh my God.

That was your alarm sound? That was my alarm sound. And it was like just a really weird looking back. Everything that you have as an alarm sound becomes like a horrible memory where you're just like, ah, you know, but like back in the day when it came out, you're like, oh my God, like this is so cool. I know. I want to bring back ringtones actually. Now that I think about it, I'm like,

Why not? Bring backtones. Bring backtones. I was a psychopath that had the default setting on my screensaver until my wife told me. What is it now? Now it's my family. Okay, cool. That's usually what it's for. Yeah. Or your pets if you don't have them. It was like the raindrops for so long. I'm like, okay. I thought it was cool. Yeah. You don't like to have like a little aesthetic on anything? I, you know, I just didn't think about it. You didn't think about it. You know.

That's what wives are for. Sometimes I forget to be a human. Truly, it's what wives are for. They're wives are for. They're like, you know, spice up the aesthetic of everything. Yeah, all men kind of are a little psychopathic without a lady by their side. I agree. Just a little rough around the edges. Just a little rough. They just need a little bit of help. Yeah, it's like, why would you do that, you know? Why would you do that? Yeah. I feel that. Barbie, how are you? Welcome to the show. I'm so good. Thank you for having me.

We're so excited to be with you. Absolutely love the movie. Bob Trevino likes it. It's awesome. I mean, I cried several times. Mostly like happy tears. Obviously, it's an emotional film. There's movies now and then that you watch that kind of really make you...

Especially in the times that we live in today, just like sometimes through sadness, you know, but like, I think we're just living in this world where we're just constantly focused on ourselves and what we need and in our own world. And it's easy to think about how life gets us down. And I think that's,

you know bob travino likes it about you know lily and the character who you know really had no one you know and then this bond between these characters makes you appreciate you know makes you it reminds you that you sometimes have to look up a little bit you know and see maybe people in need and things like that you know like one thing natalie really helped me with when i when we met is like you know i could be on my phone in my own world it just like now

would always say hi to a cashier greeter or a barista and things like that, you know? Yeah. Which I've gotten better at. Yeah. But like, I feel like this movie in a weird way kind of just reminds you to like connect with people. Yeah. You know? But it was, it's just such a beautiful movie. Thank you so much. I totally agree with you. I think,

Lots of the reactions I've been getting and reading about people's reactions has been kind of like, it's so confronting about kindness. Exposure therapy to kindness was one of the comments I read, and I was like, that's so true. I feel like this movie really is so hopeful and yet so dark, but so...

I just feel like people don't really make stuff like that anymore. It's usually like something fancy, like with a camera trick and like cool clothes and all that stuff. So it's just like this film really meant a lot to me. I mean, obviously for personal reasons, but I think for people who are watching it, it's really cool to see the reactions. And I know Tracy, who's like the director and writer, she's been doing like her little tour around the whole conversation.

country and I mean outside of the country too for all these like kind of mini film festivals and really hearing from people and it's just been so sweet it's like it's really cool to be part of something that makes people really emotional I feel like I don't even know you know the things that my friend when my friends watch it I didn't even know that they would have that reaction yeah no it's it's an emotional film but very uplifting and obviously peaks and valleys of some sadness but it always it has a very inspirational story

I mean, it was really touching. Yeah. And like you said, you don't see a lot of films nowadays like that. Yeah. I think it's really radical to do a movie that is like genuinely just about being nice. I feel like we live in like a world where we're very critical about ourselves, about other people. And Tracy's voice in this movie is just... I remember she...

we even have like a line that we were like, it was like a small character and it wasn't even mean or anything, but it was like a slight joke. And she was like, I don't want to make fun of anyone in this movie. Like she just has such a, like, like a sweetheart and like her voice just like radiates through the film. And it's just like, it's such a, like, it's a warm hug and also like really like stays with you. I mean, I, gosh, I had to actually do it. So like two months after I was like, oh my God, how am I going to recover from this? So it's so cool that people like it. I mean, we did it for like,

like so little money in Kentucky, very tiny crew, very, very tiny. And everyone just trying to make it happen. And we did, which is honestly a miracle. What connected you and drew you to playing Lily Trevino? Well, when I read the script two years ago, I just felt so connected because I have like my own father issues. Like I don't have a father in my life. Yeah. Sure.

Turns out... Turns out a lot of people have problems with their fathers. You know, and I kind of... I spent a lot of my childhood just kind of ignoring it. Like, it was kind of this elephant in the room that I had this father that...

like I just don't talk about. And he was in my life till I was like seven. And then he just like, you know, kind of dipped and left the country. In fact, nice, right? Way to get out. Yeah, why not? So, you know, for me, this was like a when I started doing therapy, I was like 18, 19. I went in for other reasons. And I kind of was like, well, my childhood, like, who cares? You know, it's all about like what like 18, 19, whatever my problems were then, which is probably like, you know, dating and being in New York and being insane. And, you know, and I remember her

she really like made me talk about my childhood and I just didn't really think it connected any of it. And so when I did, I was like, Oh my God, my father actually like this, like emptiness in my life actually really affects me every day without me knowing it's like very subconscious. So for me, when I started talking to Tracy, we just had very similar situations happen. Um, obviously like the father in the movie is a bit different than mine. Mine wasn't even there. So Ali,

he was there for lunches I guess yeah I don't know if that's much if it's what's better or worse but you know it just felt really deep to me like I connected so much with it and then my manager read it and he connected with it I feel like everyone who's seen it who has like this like family trauma of any kind really connects any people who who don't you know they're like there's been some reactions like who would ever do this to their kid I'm like you

clearly are blessed. Sadly, sadly too many to your point. Sadly too many. I mean, anyone can be a parent. I mean, that's, you know, if you want, you know, and so there, it's just, yeah, the script really, and I felt for Lily because even though I have gone through things with her, things like hers, you know, she's so different than me in a lot of ways and it was such a cool character to play that was,

outside of what I usually do, you know, playing like goth girl, which I always love doing. But it was just like, it was just, I can't believe Tracy even saw that character from my previous work. You know, it was like, it was because this movie has like very little, if any, like sex or, you know, any of that kind of like shocking kind of like, you know, whatever it is. But it was just really cool. It was just cool. Yeah, I think to your point, a lot of times when you have like a complex character and obviously Lily is, there's always like this,

you know, like the good angel, dark angel kind of like, there's always like what's behind the curtain where Lily was like this unbelievably emotionally resilient, uplifted person. All these scenes were like, you would expect like this absolute crash, you know, from her, but she just kept finding new ways to like pick herself back up, which was like really inspiring. But also like how, when you're performing and playing a character like that, there are just a lot of heavy scenes, you know, where you really had to give, you know,

you know, emotionally, like how do you do stuff like that? Was that taxing on you emotionally? You know, as an actor, are you able to dip in and dip out of these characters? Do you have to kind of sit in it? You know, if you're doing one of these scenes that maybe might require a few takes and things like that, like what is that like and how do you perform? Because it's really like a beautiful performance. You really believe it. I'm always like, you know, you want to hug your character. But how do you do that? You know, it's...

I think every character is super different. I think with Lily... And also, like, I'm a new actor, so every time I do a project, I really learn so much about myself. And with Bob Trevino specifically, I think I... When I'm doing a character, I... For the two months that I'm somewhere, like Kentucky or Louisiana or New Mexico, it's just...

I really do unintentionally start really dropping into the character even outside of being there just because you're living in the place. You're there isolated. You're really in like the workflow. For this one specifically, I had to like really...

find the boundaries of like, you know, cause I, I like to like talk to everyone all the time and that's totally great when it's just like a normal scene. And when you have to really like go deep and kind of get into the darker parts, you know, you have to really isolate. I read fine, like little like closets and all the locations to just like sit in, you know, I won't spoil it, but there was like one location that there was like a little phone booth and it was literally like tiny. And I was just sitting there for like 20 minutes, like listening to sad music. Cause I had to do like a pretty intense scene, but you know,

after I'm done with the scene, it actually leaves me. I think a lot of people sometimes can't get out of it, but it almost feels like an adrenaline rush after because you're like,

okay, this was like on my mind. Like I really wanted to do this justice. And then I can just like, you know, and then when I'm done, I'm like, okay, we did it, you know? And if I'm proud of it, I mean, most of the time, I don't even know what I did. You know what I mean? I'm like, at that point, I'm like, I hope it was fine. And you know, you literally blackout. And I was like, I just trust the director to tell me if it was good or not. But this one was, it did hit deep. And like, I feel like,

It was like a tough summer for me in general. And doing the movie was actually pretty therapeutic, I think. And, you know, it was like untangling a lot of the stuff inside of me. And the whole crew and cast, like the things that you learn from people when you watch something like this or you like are working on something like this, it's like, you know, everyone was there with us. It was so sweet. It was really like the sweetest experience of my life. It was very healing. I was about to say, I'm sure it's like

You probably didn't realize it or know that that would happen going into it. But like healing your younger self from like what you experienced from your dad through like playing this whole character and like building this bond with this guy. It's like I feel like that was incredibly healing for you just as like your inner child. Absolutely. And speaking of the inner child, I feel like when I approached this role, I felt like it was like Lily is the inner child.

You know, there was something about her that was just so young. And like, there's like this like sweet night, like naive, that naivete, I don't know how to say it. But, you know, it's just like a very, it feels like every, because she has so much unresolved trauma, it's like the inner child is like,

the forefront of it. Yeah. So that's why I feel like, you know, in the scenes where things, when she like balled it up so much and then she exploded, it was like, you know, the kid inside like really was the motivating or the thing I kept thinking of is like, what is the little Lily like thinking and where does that like put her?

in it and that's why like some of the scenes like it's at the surface it might not be very you know emotional but then when lily is in it it's stuff that she can't even like process consciously you know and i think that that's from that was part of my whole thing in general growing up so i didn't know what what an inner child was and then once i started doing therapy and like really like caring about myself and i think that's what lily you know that's her journey in this movie

Then I really realized what that meant and how that informs everything that you do in your life. So I think this is like the first chapter of her vibes. The scene, not to give too much away, where Lily's therapist cries. Yes. I saw an interview. You mentioned that your first therapy session. Not my first, but I've had therapists cry. You've made a therapist cry. I have. And it was very...

Was that in the script originally or? Yes. It was. It happened to Tracy as well. Okay. So we have like a lot, like, you know, and I didn't think this was a common thing. I thought like maybe this therapist was just like a fluke or something and just like really like, but it happened with Tracy. And when we talked, I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. I guess this happens to him.

Not just me. But yeah, it definitely happened pretty recently, actually. Wow. Yeah, like a couple years ago. How did you deal with something like that? I was just like, ha ha ha. Because in the movie it's great. And how does that make you feel? And does that make you feel bad?

Like, how's your inner child feeling? Yeah, how's your inner child? It was our first session ever, too. So I was like, okay, you know, therapist, you got to date. You know, I had this great therapist in New York who I love and she was such a wonderful person in my life. And, you know, when I moved to LA six years ago, I've still been, you know, dating therapists here and there. I haven't found, I mean, I have a good one that I like, but it's just like, I haven't found the one that I'm like, oh, this is the person. And maybe this is the one that I have right now is the person, but it's like, it feels like dating.

No, it very much is. And I always remind people too. It's just like, you know, not all doctors are created equal, not all mechanics are created equal or therapists. And, you know, like because therapy has become in the best possible way. So normalized. Yeah. Now there's kind of this increase of, you know, new therapists and you kind of, you have to weed through. You gotta find someone who speaks your language too, who understands your like,

your life in a way. Or also you do have to kind of check in with yourself just like in dating where, you know, we have a format it's called ASNIC. People call in and ask like relationship questions. I'm always like, I'm not a therapist but here's what I think. And lots of times the, you know, the people who call in are in therapy. I'm like, well, what does your therapist think about this? And sometimes it's just like, well, we've been talking about this for like two years and it's just like, well,

I'm not here to tell you not to like, but like, have you made progress? Or like, have you changed? You know, like if they asked you this or that, and you know, and like, sometimes you have to ask like, where have I gotten with this topic? Or why haven't I explored something else? Because like, you know, it is nice to talk about your feelings, but like sometimes you got the progress. Yeah. When you have friends, you know, like,

I used to be that person when I was going through heartbreaks where I would just like, I would find that one or two person in my life, that friend is usually like a woman friend. Sometimes it was like a coworker who like there

there was a bit of a disconnect where I felt like I could just like unload my, you know, emotions on this. And they were just like, you know, they'd love to hear it. It'd be great. And then I would like exhaust them and that would find someone else to like also, you know, but there was, this is so funny that humans just do this. And they were like, why are we so weird? I'm like, everyone does this. There's no progress. There's no, like you just kind of start, you forget. And I think sometimes even with therapy,

If you don't have a good therapist, you can become connected to talking about the pain that you're experiencing with or like that becomes familiar, especially like heartbreak. You know, I always tell people just be careful because like sometimes missing them and and wishing you're with them is that last thing.

part of the relationship you have to let go because like and you know when you really think it's over that's the scary part so you hold on to the pain because that's the thing that you have left and like sometimes a therapist who maybe isn't as good as they could be or you're not connecting with can you know keep you in that keep you in that and because there's so many different kinds of therapy and i've tried a lot of different ones and you know it's like some things are just there's some kind of therapy where you just talk and they say nothing

You know, they just talk therapy. There's like CBT. There's like so many different kinds. And, you know, it's interesting because people are just like a vague statement is just like go to therapy. You know, it's like, well, we got to educate people on like what kind of help they might want or what works for them. And, you know, trust me, I've had some bad therapists. OK, I'm like, how are you?

Yeah. A professional. I'm scared. I'm scared, you know? So it's like, it's interesting because it's, you know, it's people at the end of the day, you know, this human error and everything. And I think, you know, with this scene, it was,

It's so funny because when I read it, I was like, this is no way this is in the script. This just happened to me. Literally at the time, it must have been very recently too. So I was just like, oh, this is the world, the universe telling me to do this movie because it's eerily close. Through therapy, what is something that you've learned about yourself for the better? We've talked about obviously maybe the challenges of therapy, but what's something maybe that when you've discovered

the whole idea of your inner child. I mean, I learned that the first time I, you know, I started in therapy when I was in COVID and it was more like, I advocate for therapy. I'm doing okay. But like, you know, sitting at home might as well, you know, I felt like generally pretty good. It wasn't like, you know,

life is dark, you know? And then the first session, it was like, how many brothers and sisters do you have? Tell me about your parents, all this. And just kind of just, and I had a generally great childhood, but like just understanding the premise of that, you know, and why we do what we do, why we maybe sit in our emotions, why we act a certain way, you know? And then as you get older, you do like,

As I get older, at least, it's like that... What's that commercial? You grow up to be your parents and things like that. Oh, yeah. That's me. I know. Every once in a while, I'll have this feeling where I'm like, when did I become my dad? And then you learn about that. And then you became more self-aware about your triggers and how your parents reacted to you. And you're like, oh, holy shit. And so what did you learn about yourself through kind of diving into therapy? Gosh, I learned so much. I think... I used to do therapy when I was a kid, but it was...

I grew up in like a very like low income family. So it wasn't the best. It was kind of, you know, what my insurance could cover. And it, you know, it did the job, I guess. But when I started doing therapy as an adult, I used to just think I was crazy. And I think that that's, or I'm the problem. And I think that a lot of people just assume that like, oh no, it's just me. Like I just attract this kind of like negativity in my life. And what I really started really deeply understanding is that everything, all my reactions, it is my responsibility to like,

fix it but it's not my fault you know and I think that that's really I remember like the first time like the first few sessions of this you know my therapist was like there's like stages to this you're gonna get really angry at the people you grew up with and then you're gonna like you know accept it and then you're gonna forgive that you know there's like or that's like kind of like what happens like you start getting angry you're like why did you do this to me and then you know

I think through all these years, what I've realized is we all are doing our best, but that doesn't mean that it was good. It does not mean it was good. And accepting both those truths at the same time. I was raised by my mom, my grandma. They're incredibly great people. Love them. But I can also accept that the childhood wasn't great. I think I've gotten to a place where it's like I'm able to look at

at my dad and the relationship that he's able to have with his children and be like you know that's the best that you can do like yeah you you don't have a dad bone in your body but like that you're doing the best you can you know and like honestly I just stopped expecting dad things from him and like it's fine now you know sometimes you imagine like a parent getting off the phone you know and thinking I was a good parent there and the kid on the other end of the phone being like

That was horrible. What was that? You know? Yeah. And, like, you know, sometimes there's a disconnect. And, like, I've had to learn as I've gotten older, like, the difference between... I think sometimes we're afraid to empathize with people we don't understand or we're in conflict with because we feel like empathizing with them is, like, justifying their actions. Yeah. But, like, sometimes you can learn how to empathize not to justify, explain, or, like, let them off the hook, but at least, like, just understand where they're coming from. Yeah. You know, just to know... I think it's healing to know that. It's like...

And of course, there's some people who it is an ill-intentioned malice in their heart, of course. And, you know, one can debate that. But it's good to understand that generationally things are just, you know, everyone is just trying to do a little bit better than the last. And I always said, I'm like, well, my mom grew up in Brazil and she was like in a tiny town and like, you know, all these things. She was, you know, it was bad, you know. And then I'm like, I grew up in New York. I live in Jersey. I like...

went to a high school in America. Like, you know, so for me, it was kind of like, I almost like didn't even think of any of the problems because I was like, well, it's much better than how my mom grew up. And it's also like, I bet your mom didn't get therapy at 18, 19, 20, you know, like my mom didn't either. And so now I look at the issues that we're having and it's like,

you know, if you were able to have like gone back and gotten therapy and like healed this, then maybe we wouldn't be having these types of issues. But it's like you have to get down to like their level and be like, OK, you haven't unlocked like this part of you yet. And that's why like we have these issues. Absolutely. My mom started doing therapy, I think like

Must have been like 20 years ago at this point, you know? And what's funny is also my mom had me at 21. So we grew up together. I'm the only child. She's 21. And really like, you know, really trying to make it work with having a child and being like an immigrant. So I have so much empathy for her for that. And also I think like in Brazilian culture, it's always just like, you know, I've always heard of like the stories that my grandma used to like beat my mom up.

you know, and like, ha ha ha, that's funny. And like, that's totally normal. And like all these, like culturally it was just completely different. So like trying to connect with my family and some people like my mom will go to therapy and it's great. And then some other people, you just kind of have to realize that they,

are gonna do what they wanna do. There is just nothing you can do about it. And that's really the hard part is like letting go of like the control that you have with your family. And it's like, I can't help you if you don't wanna be helped. And I just have to watch you kind of destroy everything. You know, it's sad, but-

There's something, you know, I'm like 28 now. And I know if I were to call my mom about something and my mom is a funny, amazing person. She's so hilarious. And if I call her, if I, you know, need stitches or something, she's going to freak out. Yeah. She's not the one that I need to call first. Yeah. You know, and no matter what, like I'm 28. Like at this point, I know that like if there's like a problem like that, like she's going to be screaming on the other side of the phone on the plane, you know, and I can just like relax. Yeah. So I know where to get calm.

like I know where to go. Like I have my friends, I have my, my family. I know who's the strengths of everyone. And I don't expect anyone to do something that's radically different than what they are because I'm only going to get disappointed. Right. I'm like, it's just not going to happen. Yeah. So much about this movie is like kind of that almost like a second storyline almost or theme maybe is a better word for it is like the found family, you know? And,

you know, sadly for people who don't have a healthy relationship with, you know, their parents or relatives, obviously a lot of people in the LGBTQ community, like we'll have to, you know, feel like maybe their family isn't it for them. And what's that like for you? Do you have like a found family in LA and who are those people that you've really connected with and made like a new community with? Absolutely. So I have a really small family because all

my whole family's Brazilian except for me. And so my mom and my grandma, my aunt lived here in the US. So it was only three people out of like, you know, cousins and siblings, not my siblings, but you know, everyone. So we always had like chosen family, like every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, it would be like 60 Brazilians who they can't go back home. And so even like the last Thanksgiving, I went to my mom's house and there were literally like 100 people there. And it's people that I grew up with who are like family.

But, you know, we're not in Brazil, so we can't see our extended family. So we have like an extended family within the family, within Brazilians in like the New York area, right? And my mom was really far away. And my grandma moved back to Brazil. My aunt's in Florida. So I really, you know, very sparse family.

in the States. So for me, I mean, I have like my best friends. I have people that I really lean on. And every time I have like a family thing, it's like my friends also come because they mean that much. And my mom also has that too, where it's like, we just value friendship a lot. And that's really important to me. And I think is not like instilled in everyone. Like people think that like they're, I think can only be like really close with like their family or their partners. And they can't have this like really close, like platonic bond, you know? And so for me, it's, I always,

grew up with people who weren't blood like related but were like family and I would call them Chia and she was always like aunt and uncle and like you know and these are people that have known me my whole life too so I think chosen family is

especially if their family's not here, if the family is not accepted. I know tons of people who like, you know, we celebrate holidays together because, you know, they might or they might come to my family's holidays and, you know, be part of that because they don't have that. So I think chosen family is really important. And I think it's not valued as much. And, you know, for me, friendship has always been like number one. What is like traits or qualities that you think

keep a friendship like lasting? Like how do you think you've made these friendships last so long? Oh gosh. A lot of my friends are like people I've been friends with for a long, long time. I think making fun of each other. I do that with my best friend, Ben, who happens to be in the room right there. Hey girl. He comes everywhere with me.

But, you know, I think having like laughing, being there, like loyalty, you know, we all support each other to the max. We make fun of each other, like in a playful way. We like keep it just, you know, it's like family. It's like having siblings, you know, I never had a sibling. So that's why what I assume having a sibling is like, you know, where it's like, you know, no matter what, we're there for each other and they're in and

It's really, I think, important, especially since I'm far away from everyone and I have such a small, tiny little family. You know, it's all, you know, crazy great women. It's great to have like people that I've met through my life who stick around. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that stick around part is the important part because, you know, the thing about family, you know, I have 10 siblings. Okay. Opposite of me. The opposite. And I joke, I mean, getting a dog taught me something. And that is the difference between unconditional love and unconditional like.

Oh, okay. Where I was like, oh, I don't, my parents, they don't unconditionally like me, you know, like they unconditionally love me. Like and love very different. Right? Like my dogs, everything I do is awesome to them. And my parents, it's just like, sometimes you're an asshole kind of thing. Right? And that's the nice thing about family is that you can just know, even though there's a disconnect or maybe your guys are

bumping personalities that for a lot of people, not always, because obviously sometimes like with Lily's character, it's very dark, but you just, you feel that sense of like, I have a community, I have people. And with friendships, I think sometimes people struggle with, because especially like LA is a perfect example, a lot of transplants, a lot of people trying to make friends, people will start hanging out, they'll connect, they'll have fun.

But then as you guys get to know each other, you see some of the cracks in each other. People make bad decisions. People make mistakes. And then sometimes instead of sticking around, there's more of a like, I don't want anything to do with this. The LA flakiness happens to us all. And then people really have to kind of go through those trial and error periods with friendships because like, you know, I always say like everyone calls himself loyal. It's like one of those things where people will say, you know, no one's like, yeah, I'm not loyal. I'm

completely disloyal person but the truth is is like a lot of people just aren't you know what i'm saying a lot of people aren't like they're loyal to the degree that like as long as they their needs are served in a relationship they're good to go but when things get tough when someone's down bad and maybe they're down bad because of their own choices and mistakes you know but like the friends who may stick around have a tough conversation maybe maybe it's like you know you kind of was

Friendship is all about tough conversations. Right, you know? But that stick around part is always really important. And I, yeah, it's just like, people love to call themselves loyal. We gotta put them to the loyalty test. We gotta see what's up. Push comes to shove. We gotta test them. I feel like, I totally agree with you because I've been living in LA for six years and

almost all my friends are from are people that I met in New York which is also a very similar kind of vibe you know maybe like you know instead of Hollywood it's more like fashion and and like art but it's like you know people are there for their own interest and I grew up in New York and Jersey and all my friends are people that I've known for so long and I rarely have people and I meet people that are great all the time but having that like friendship where you can have tough conversations you

you can like read your friends and just be like, you need to get it together or I need to get it together. I'm in a horrible like place right now and their understanding. And it's not just like putting a bandaid over it, but like continue. It's like having a relationship. It's like almost, I mean, to me, my friendships are way deeper than the relationships I've had just because there have been longer and they've been, I guess like the trials that it's been tested more, you know? And I just think it's incredibly important because especially now people feel so lonely and I,

I mean, Lily's a great example of just like loneliness and just like people aren't interacting as much. They're not going outside as much. They're not like connecting with people. And it's I mean, it's been happening slowly for a while now. But it's just I think a lot of people just feel really lonely and it's causing a lot of problems, actually, like like major issues. Yeah, 100 percent. Major. People need to get outside, say hi, put them, you know, get out of their comfort zone, interact.

with people, you know, people are always like, how do I meet new people? It's like, well, you have to actually go outside. I tell myself that all the time. I'm like, I can't just be at home all day. Like I have to, if I want to, you know, see the sunshine and talk to people, like I have to actually go out the front door. And making an effort is hard. I mean, you know, and I'm trying to get better at it. I think one of my New Year's resolutions this year is to like make sure that I'm not missing like my friend's birthdays for no reason or, you know, making a concerted effort to,

be there for the people that I love, even if it's harder to do, even if I have to make it work. You know what I mean? So I just think that that's really important because whatever I expect people to do for me, I want to give back to the people I love. And it seems kind of silly to be like, I should be a good friend too. But it's just like, I think that I just like in checking myself and being like, okay, sometimes I'm an actor. We all are always just thinking about ourselves. That's really...

what you do all day. You're like, oh, you know, it's a very crazy industry. And I and I and I don't want to like take up all the space in conversations and stuff, especially when I'm frustrated. It's like feels like I can ruminate on something over and over again. So just being a good friend, also just being honest, like if something goes wrong, I just I'm like, listen, this is what is happening with me. It has nothing to do with you or it does have something to do with you. And, you know, I hope you forgive me, but I just need it.

a second because I'm going crazy. Yeah. And that's what like that subtlety in this movie kind of shows that kind of like that balance between again, like the climate that we're in today, right? Like the awareness of therapy. And again, there's that that balance between understanding your childhood, understanding your trauma, understanding what happened and how that

Relates to you, but still being able to think outside of your needs. Right. Because a lot of therapy is very reflective. Right. A lot of a lot of, you know, today's understanding, you know, the generational trauma and yada yada, which I think can be great and very beneficial. But like the the risk sometime is allowing that person almost to become.

a little selfish and self-centered and like only focusing on what has happened to them and why they've been wronged and why they've been victimized by the people around them. And that can be both true and valid, but we have to remind ourselves that there's a whole world going on around us. You know, there's other people, our friends and strangers. Like that moment in the movie where Bob's talking to his wife and

And he's pointing out like Lily is this like, you know, she's in the void screaming. She's screaming out in the void. I love that line because it's so sad. No, it is sad. And he talks about how like, you know, she's getting no engagement and likes. And I think a lot of people in today's age would look at that and go, ew, weird. What's wrong with her? What's wrong with her? Why is she saying like hashtag best lunch ever? Like that's so weird. I mean, there's moments in that movie where Lily is kind of like,

giving a little crazy. No, exactly. Yeah, like stop posting so much. Why are you posting that way? You know what I mean? It's like, what I think about this movie is that it's like a really great character study on someone who is just, you know, I think for me, I'm just like shrouded in like, I'm like so Gen Z and like I have like third voice in my head about the internet and like what looks cool, what doesn't and I really actively try to like combat that and I know a lot of people feel that way where it's like you just feel like you're just watched and judged for everything. With Lily, she's just a pure heart that like when you see someone be so

vulnerable. It's so like affecting, especially now, I think because we're so used to not wanting to cringe, not wanting to feel like empathy for people that like maybe we don't understand where they're coming from. And so this character was really just so interesting to me because she

There's so many people like her who are just hungry for any kind of friendship and really lonely. And people might make fun of her. I feel like that's... I think what really is uncomfortable about it is that people might see themselves in her and also in the people that are affecting her. You know what I mean? It feels like you kind of have to be in your head and be like, this person is clearly...

like traumatized and wanting to have people around her. But, you know, I'm not used to seeing someone so, you know, excited and earnest and all this stuff. And it's like, it's almost like a little bit of like, it's very, I always say confront, it confronts you with it. And I totally, yeah, I totally agree with you. And it's,

I think Lily just like for me is a very good representation of the people that we ignore. You know, the people that don't matter, quote unquote, on the Internet. You know, we're like following influencers and people who are living this like really fabulous life and, you know, all this stuff. And then there's this girl who's like she's not doing like a get ready with me. She's not like she has no idea about.

the algorithm or it's on Facebook. It's like not even supposed to be, it's supposed to be for like family and friends, you know, it's like she genuinely just wants family and friends and it's so sweet. And I think it's also people just don't think that way. You know, I just think that they're ashamed of feeling like they want people and to admit that they don't have people around them. Yeah.

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Trauma and bad memories about that time in my life. How do you look back at that time in your life? Well, I think for me I was I started modeling was 16 and I worked with a lot of people that I knew so I would like always at first I first it was like, you know I did editorials my friend Patrick Collins was like a great artist and we would do like pictures of me and like a bedroom like, you know Like very it was a very specific look and it was always for like art magazines and stuff So that was always really cool was friends and I was shot with friends and

I met people, you know, and then when I started doing it professionally, I was like 18 or so.

You know, I never had like a really horrible experience. Like I never, you know, even though I modeled for American Apparel, which had like that whole drama, which never affected me or anything. But the thing that I think was really hard for me was that I felt like I just wasn't healed from, I was 18, freshly 18, just got out of my mom's house all alone, being flown out to like, you know, Germany to go do e-comm and all that. And I would go every day to like go do, and I just was like alone with my thoughts. Yeah.

for like the first time in my life. Like there was no mom, there was no grandma, there was no, like, you know, I wasn't, I was alone and I had to be my own adult. So I think that was really hard for me. I think I always was like,

freaking out for no reason. I mean, I was also 18. I was like super irresponsible. Like there'd be times I'd like lose my wallet in like London. You know what I mean? Then everyone has to like try to help me get back home. And you know, it was fun. It was like silly. Like I was like partying and like, so it was really fun. And being a plus size model was really cool because it felt like I was around people that

understood and there wasn't like that typical like kind of pressure of like you know obviously being really thin or or being particularly tall or you know all these like kind of like nitpicks that that straight size models do like for me I was like you know modeling for like Target and like doing just like it was pretty fun and I met really good people and you know I think for me at the end towards the end of my modeling career I was like 21 I just was kind of frustrated I was just like I'm kind of sick of just doing photos because I was also doing a lot of like video stuff I had like

like a little vice show on broad like with broadly and I had like and I did like a teen vogue thing and I was like I really just want like I feel like I I've done enough of this and I feel like kind of slowing down I don't feel like fulfilled by this anymore and I always wanted to be an actor so I was like I think it's time for me to invest in myself and you know try it out and I mean it's

It worked, thank God. Yeah, and it is taking off. I had no other plan. So I was really like, it's either this or, I don't know, cashier at the New Jersey ShopRite. When Euphoria really took off and things exploded, what was that like? To go from more of a normal life, working actor, to ultra famous and successful.

lovable and everyone's just like fascinated with you did you was there a moment where like one day you went to bed the next day you it felt like you stepped outside and you know what's funny is it started it slowly started in the beginning and i remember hunter and i were at a we're having like breakfast somewhere this is when this is a trailer came out and the waitress was like oh my god i saw you guys this trailer for your new hbo show and we like freaked out we're like i

It's out. You know, like, you know what's funny is that, like, it went by so fast. I, like, it was such a whirlwind. I don't think I was even, like, processing what was happening. And after, like, week four of it being out, I was like, okay, like, this is getting, like, I'm, like, actually, like, going, like, people are really stopping me for, like, on the street. And it's, like, really, like, you know, and at the time I had my short hair. I, like, looked like my character. You know, sometimes if I, you know, don't look like Kat, like, I can get away with a lot. And I also, like, wore my actual glasses in the show. So I had to, like, change those because I just literally looked like I was walking around in costume. Yeah.

Like, ooh, hindsight is 20-20. Not a good idea. Yeah, not a great idea. But it was amazing. I think, like, I just didn't... I expected it to do well because I was like, it's Zendaya. It's, like, kids. Like, you know, like, it's, like, you know, we're all, like, you know, doing... Like, it just felt, like, new and fresh. And, like, no one has ever done that. And I loved...

like shows like skins like degrassi and like all these like teen shows like whatever level there's like the the dirtier ones and like the the kind of more like polished ones but i always love them so it's really it was really fun to be part of like the generations like teen show that like really depicted this generation and um i always i was hoping for that i was like the whole time i was like i want this to be like skins i want this to be like our dirty like salacious like teen drama that like every like kid wants to watch you know and it worked it

It really was that. Exactly that, right? And it really, like, and that's the thing. It's just like, to your point, what's cool about shows like that or films or movies that, you know, kind of...

encapsulate an era, if you will, is that they do stand the test of time. You know, we'll go back and watch old 80s movies or 90s movies or like I grew up, you know, when Can't Hardly Wait came out when I was in high school. And like those, especially at least for the people who grew up with them, they always hold a special place in your heart. Right. And so like euphoria for a lot of people, but especially people who connected with that era, right.

it will live on in ways that I think other shows or films don't. And that's a, that's incredible. I mean, it's, it's a privilege to have in your career, especially like the first big, I mean, I have like a couple of things that I did before. It was very like small to have that happen really early is like, I mean,

I mean, that's like what you want. You know, you can make so much stuff like, you know, and people can like it, but like who's watching it? And Euphoria really just popped off in a way. And I didn't expect it to be like that at all. I was like, OK, this is really cool. And it also popped off in a way that was really fun. Like it was just like I felt like it was merging my life of like fashion and like acting. And it was really cool because I got to like

put my little outfits on and like, you know, and I was really young. So like, of course I was like always like insecure and like, you know, but overall it was just, it was really cool. And I think like it just went so fast that I,

Didn't really process it until I really had time to be like, oh my God, that was, I don't even, like, I was like, that was insane. You know, that was so cool. You did play a very interesting and like sexual powerful character. What were your original thoughts of Kat? Oh my gosh, when I read Kat, I remember just, I read it. I had no context to it. And I was like, wait a second, this is me. I go, wait a second.

Did they just write about my life? And I remember they had this open call that was like thousands and thousands and thousands of people. And so I had an acting age at the time, and I got to audition through that. But my friends were all auditioning for it too, and I was like, you guys have never acted? Like, what do you mean? So I'd be like, you know what I mean? What are you talking about? And it made me sick how much I wanted it, and thankfully it worked out. But it literally, it was months of me auditioning and just...

being like please you guys have to hear me out and I mean with cats like sexuality just felt like really real I mean it's like the internet and like exploring sexuality the internet's like obviously how people are doing it these days at first you know and again it's like that loneliness thing where it's like you're trying to feel connection and doing contemporary things like this where it involves the internet is a lot of the things I do involve a lot of the movies I've shot that aren't even out involves the internet a lot but it's just like contemporary things that

that reflect how people feel without it feeling like corny is really, I think, important because people like hate seeing phones and movies and shows and stuff. But I'm like, that's just the reality. Like we can't make a project about 2020 without an iPhone, you know, it's like it has to be part of it. So it's cool to find ways to

To make it work cinematically. The micro penis is something that will live in my head forever. Like, I don't think I'll ever get that. I know. And I told him not to show me until we were shooting. That is so smart. I was like, unless you guys are literally rolling, don't show me. Because I want it to be, like, genuinely surprised.

So the actor was upstairs in a fake little set that they made in a green room. And I had an earpiece so I could just hear him breathing. He was really... He was amping up. He's great. It went on. I was like... I believe that is what is in the show. That is all of our reactions. We had a lot of prosthetic penises. A lot. A lot. Did anyone come out and say that their penis was real or was... I don't think anyone's penis...

I think, I mean, if you want to get technical, I think if there's an erection, I think you have to have a prostate or penis. I think if it's not that, I think you don't have to. But I've asked this question so many times. I'm like, is that real? And I have had no answer. I'm like, maybe someone here can answer this for me. Is it like the union law that if it's erect...

you had to have a prosthetic penis or if you know what I mean? I want to know. I want to know that because everyone did have a prosthetic penis. I'm pretty sure. I will say it's a very loaded question for men. It is. There's no way to answer that without

either being somewhat douchey, weird, or coming across like you're projecting, you know, there's always like, are you hiding something or are you showing, there's just no way. It's an absolute trap. It's an absolute trap. So it's just like. You just can't, you don't even mention it. You're just like, I do wonder like if you, like I don't know if the actors got to like choose. You know what I mean? Like that's interesting for me.

for me. I want to know what the process is. Is it the character or is it an ego thing? I feel like I saw an interview of Jacob being like, I... You chose. He was like, I went in and there was a selection. There was a huge selection and I picked the right one. If it's your point, are they choosing it because it represents them or are they choosing it because it's like, well, I would like to play something different today. Yeah. I know, I'm missing

- That's so interesting, you'll never know. We will never know. - You'll never know. You had decided to leave "Euphoria" and talked about how you just felt like Kat, the character, her story was told. - Yeah. - You don't see a lot of that from actors, obviously, regardless of the success of the show. And then sometimes as fans, we will watch shows where the whole jumping the shark

you know, idea or like, you know, sometimes like for me, it's just like Dexter ended after season four, you know, it's like, we just, we don't talk about the rest, you know? And, but for you to decide regardless of what is going to happen with euphoria, for you to decide,

that must have been a difficult choice and like how did you how did you make that decision and how have you felt about it since then yeah i think it was very mutual so it wasn't just like my choice i think after having a lot of conversation and after season two i think it just there was just nowhere to go you know and i think instead of me kind of like lingering around for nine months i think it was best for you know both of us that we just kind of ended it there you know and

I think for me, I mean, of course it's hard. I'm like, I love you for it. I love Kat. Like Kat means the world to me. I mean, I spent so many years like pouring everything into her, but it's like, you know, you don't want to ruin a good thing. I think that that, and I, and it's a mutual, it was a mutual decision. It was absolutely not just me. So it was like, you know, everyone decided that this was, there was nowhere to go. And that's hard obviously. Cause I'm like, you know, what, what am I going to do? But again, with acting and like things,

Things just... Things happen all the time and you just have to have thick skin and just, like, make the right decisions for you and your career. And it was hard. I was really young and it was just, you know, it was tough, obviously. Like, there was a lot of, like, you know, discourse about it that wasn't true. And I'm a person who just kind of, like, lets everything kind of happen because... Was there anything in particular that you read that felt the most kind of offensive or egregious? There was a couple. I think most of it... I mean, people just...

it's a popular show so people like took it out of you know they kind of there wasn't like I never like walked off set there was never anything like that like that was like a whole thing and she like you know did all this and I was like I absolutely never did that you could ask like the hundreds of people that were there every day no fan theories fan theories are crazy and most of the time they're not right but sometimes they are sometimes they are sometimes they yeah sometimes I'm like oh wow yeah well you know you give them a hundred guesses sometimes then at one point you gotta guess right you know I think it's sometimes

fans, I always remind myself that fan is short for fanatic. You know, not that I don't, you, you, you want to appreciate fans, uh,

but you also, and that's why it's important for at least, you know, Natalie and I are always kind of talking where it's like, listen, like we just, we don't, it's not our business, you know, type of thing because like, and that's tough. You want to have that relationship, but you want to give them the freedom to be fans because part of being a fan is just like talking with your friends and having these theories, right? It's just fun to talk. Exactly. They don't even believe it half the time. And like, they're not, they're not, you know, it's like that classic case of,

someone like write something meaning your comments and then like you decided for whatever reason to like like it or respond whatever reason and they're like oh my god I'm just kidding I love you you're the best that literally has happened to me before that's why I stopped I'm like at this point respect to everyone who like comments back and like claps back at everything I have never been that girl in fact I just let it like kind of go into its own world and then fizzle out because what am I gonna do all I'm gonna do is just

fuel they're not gonna listen to me they're not gonna like believe me if i say something you know so it's just like uh they're just being fans they're being fans and also i can't read it you know that's like one thing too is a big thing i think that's what when euphoria came out i was so used to being on the internet you know i was like always like telling everyone like everything i was doing like always like talking to camera you know like just always like filling people in and i think like my biggest sacrifice as an actor is that i don't use the internet for fun anymore

really I mean obviously like I scroll through TikTok and you know do that but I don't like post for like a lot of fun most of the time you know I just feel like it's not the same being an actor who's like in a show that's popular also like it's so internet you know

But I'll take it. I'm getting older. I'm fine. Who from the cast have you stayed closest with? Well, I saw Hunter the other day. I saw Maude the other day. Sydney came to come see my play. So, I mean, they're all so busy. I mean, I've been out of town for like eight months. So I'm like, you know, we, we, we, whenever we're in town, we always try to see each other. And they came to support the play, which was really sweet. It was very sweet. That is nice. Sensitive subject. Angus Cloud's death. Yes.

how obviously we saw that affect the world. How did that affect cast and you personally? I mean... Yeah. Gosh, it's so hard for me to talk about it. I know. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. I mean, it's tragic. I don't think I've ever been through anything like that. And I think we all were just really...

affected by it and I mean it just you know I haven't lost a lot of people thank God and so this was like just you know I was actually in Kentucky at the time so I was very isolated when I heard it and it was just just a great shame I think this was

the coolest guy, the craziest dude, like literally the amount of stories. I just love that I can cherish those moments, you know? I think about him a lot and I just, you know. He's such a unique person, like you said. Oh my gosh. His story was fascinating. He was incredible. Like he was a complete like sweetheart, like character. Like it's just, yeah, it's really, really tragic. It's just, he's so young and you know, yeah, it was hard.

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Code V-I-A-L-L. You like to cook? I do like to cook. I love to cook. I'm the cooker in the family. She's my sous chef. I like to cook, but I don't like to clean.

That's my problem. You know, I don't like either. I love to cook. I'll cook if someone else cleans. Okay. If everyone cleans up all... I would love that. So we do a good job of separating chores. Oh, I love that. It's always my problem when I'm booed up. Yeah, you gotta... I've learned... It's like 90% of the relationship is chores. Young me was like, love is enough and I can just power through anything. Dishwasher. You know, it's just like you can have a completely different menu and we can have different tastes and everything. No. If we love each other enough...

And like being in a relationship with Natalie more than anything has taught me just like relationships are hard enough. Every day can't be a battle, you know, picking what you want to eat, who does what, you know? And so like I can't, I'm allergic to laundry. Natalie loves it. Natalie's allergic to doing dishes. I can do dishes, you know, I love to cook. I won't even let her cook sometimes. I don't let anyone cook. I'm more like you're doing it wrong. Same, same. Move, move. I grew up in a culinary family. My mom's a chef and my aunt's a chef and I didn't really know how to cook until a few years ago. So I, as soon as that-

What's your favorite? Do you have like a go-to? Recently. I make a really good chicken thigh recently. I've been really doing a really good chicken thigh. I love a thigh because most people go breast. No. And it's just like dark meat, you know. We got to do bone in, skin on, thigh. You got to sear it and then you take it out and then you make like a little sauce, put it in the oven.

We would do a little lemon, some capers, some anchovies maybe. Oh my God. Yeah, why not? Oh my God. It's so yummy. I also made a yummy like mushroom gravy on something, but it was good. I love to make like, I just like love to cook. So if I see something that I like, I make a really good salmon too. Is it easy for you to cook for like one,

one person or are you like, guys, I'm cooking. Everyone come over. I need everyone to come. I will not cook for myself. I literally can't do it. I just cannot do it. I'd rather cook for other people and myself than I can't make myself a thing. I mean, like when I was, you know, in my single days and there was a lot of, a lot of years, I was like the single serving guy. You know, I'd go to the grocery store every day and I'd find like things that like would make sense. Like that's when I got into, that's when I discovered the joy of an English muffin. Ooh.

Because I could also like make a burger. Yes. And then use it as a bun. Yes. But like, you know, before as a single serving guy, if you just buy like a bag of buns, like you use one bun and it goes bad, but an English muffin, you can put in the fridge. It keeps a little longer. And I would have all these like single serving tricks. Yeah. Like, and it was just like, but also kind of depressing that I figured out how to like. You gotta make it look pretty.

it look pretty at least sustainably like shot for myself I always like if I make something really ugly I just put a little herb like some herbs just a little chive on the top so you're like it has to like plate I like a good plate so do I I always feel bad because I'm I like try to plate my 13 month old daughters like perfectly and she's like screaming crying and I'm like just honey if I can just get this

Perfectly. And just like mashing it with her hands. I love that. That's so cute. Yeah. It's a thought that counts. It is. It is. She doesn't understand yet. She doesn't understand yet, but she will. I've taken a photo of every one of her meals and she'll be like, thank you.

They're a cute little plate. They're definitely girl winners. Her hands like in all of them like going for something in all the pictures. It's really cute. So cute. Speaking of girl, when I was in New York and I was doing a play every night so I would come home at like nine and I would literally just eat like pickles and like cheese and salami with crackers like for dinner every night because I didn't I literally

I literally was the girliest dinner and like some fruit and like just eating every like pickled thing that there is in the fridge. Yeah. Because it's just like, I would just come home so late and I'm just like, this is like, I'm like, this is, I'm like 90% sodium at the moment. Like,

I could feel myself just like full of salt. I'm just like, how much salami and cheese? It's like, wow, I am inflamed. Yeah. Perfect. Maybe girl dinner, you know, maybe I should switch it up a little bit. Thankfully, now I'm back in my kitchen and I can make like, you know, rounded, balanced meals. Do you have like a go-to meal? Yes. You do? Yes. I either do like a sundubu, like a Korean soup. I do that a lot. I'll order, I love Chinese food. I love like a good kong pao chicken. Do you? I love dim tai feng.

What's your order? I like the soup dumplings. I'll get the like broccoli and garlic sauce. That's yum, yum, yum. And then I'll have like

I usually just like really like the dumplings. The dumplings. I'll just get like all the different, the pan fried ones, the steamed ones. I'll take it all. The rice cakes. You ever had the rice cakes? I love a rice cake. I was just thinking about rice cakes the other day. I was like, can you do an H-mart and just get some rice cakes? Before we started recording, we were talking about our daughter and you mentioned, oh, I just want a baby. I want a baby. Is that something that in the future you hope? Oh, yes. Every time someone has a baby, my first reaction is like, I want one too. And I just like, I feel like I grew up as a,

only child. I am the baby of the family and I'm nearly 30. So like I had never really interacted with like a lot of kids growing up or in general. And so I never really thought about having kids until recently. And I think also everyone in my family has had a baby before 21. So I'm already like, I'm not gonna say I'm late, but everyone wanted me to not continue that. It's like being from the South.

Yeah, like, no one's, like, no one was, like, you should have a baby. Like, no one's impressing me to have a baby. This is all me. Okay, okay. People are like, okay, my mom was like, you should, yeah, but maybe you need a relationship first. So she's not like, I want a grandbaby. She does, but she's just like, you need to, you know, she's like, you gotta, you gotta wait for the right one, you know, and, like, don't rush it. But I want a baby in, like, four or five years. Okay.

What love and dating relationships are we in a season of like independence? Are we dating around? We're in a single era. We are in a single era. Do we love that? We like it. We like it. I think, you know, I saw a psychic. I didn't see a psychic. A psychic was at a party. A psychic saw me. A psychic saw me. He asked for me specifically. I saw a psychic last year and he told me that I wasn't going to find love in 2024. Oh.

So I'm like, maybe in 2025. Okay. We'll see. What did he say? Well, no, that was it. That was it. Thanks for your help. That's it. That's all you get. You got to put another quarter in. Yeah, yeah. Just not this year. I'm like, okay, I'll take it. So I actually really lived my life by that, even though I...

It's kind of great. I'm like, I think I'm taking a break from dating for a second. Are psychics, like, they make me nervous. They make me nervous. Like, I do not want to know when I'm going to die. They're not going to tell you that, but yes. Maybe they would. But again, there's something about psychics where it's just like, I don't, you, you. I don't. I happen to have seen a psychic at a party. Okay. I have been to a psychic here and there, but I'm also wary of, like, the LA of it all. Hmm.

Like I'm very like I understand the spirit healers and the you know, and the and the crystals and Malibu and stuff. I get it. I get I think it's fun. But you know, I take it with a grain of salt. Yeah. It's not like what I you know, Nick's sister saw one and she said that the psychic said the brother closest to you is going to have twins. And that's Nick. And I was like,

Oh. When are the twins happening, baby? Oh, my God. My sister has twins. Her sister has twins. I still don't know how twins work. Is it genetic? I think so. I think it's Skip's generation. But I don't think it has anything to do with the guy. Right? Maybe. What chromosomes make it? Well, I feel like y'all. Because they would have to. There'd be two sperms. Well, yeah, but usually there's a lot of those. Yeah, but to make it up, all the way up.

To the egg. Yeah. But yet there either has to be one egg or one. I don't know. There can be two eggs. That's fraternal. That's fraternal science podcast. Fraternal twins are two different eggs, correct? I might be wrong. But that's what makes it identical. So I guess both eggs. What's crazy is my sister has twins and they are so identical that they're like fingerprint DNA is the same. Those are fascinating. Crazy. Imagine just having like a part of you in the world.

It's like the exact same. Yeah. And like they're finishing each other's sentences. And like that sounds so wonderful. Like you'll never like, but it also is like really sad because it's like you have like this person that is like so part of you that like if you guys are not together, it's like, you know, I've heard like twins knowing when the other one is like hurt if they're not in the same place. It's like twins are, we need to study that. Science, get on it. Get on it. What's in your single arrow? Yeah.

having dated before, I'm assuming. Yes, I have. What's something that you've, through previous experiences, have learned that

maybe things have lacked that you really are looking for and you're whenever that happens for you next and what's on something that while things maybe didn't work out in the past with whoever you still really enjoyed and appreciate that aspect of the relationship that you hope to carry into your next relationship great question I think what I learned about myself is that I'm a particular kind of girl

And I'm not for everyone. You know what I mean? And not in a bad way, but just like, you know, my life is just very – I think a lot of people don't really like that. They don't like like a woman who's like very like loud and like takes up a lot of space. And I just inherently do that because I grew up with a lot of women who do that. So like even as a kid, I was just like, you know, I never lived under like the scrutiny of like, you know, the –

The patriarchy. Inside voice. In that vase. Yeah, like where it's like, oh yeah, you have to be small. Like, you know what I mean? Like you have to like, you know, be like, um, quiet or anything. So I think a lot of people don't like that. I don't take it personally when they don't. And so, and also I need someone who's like very, who's going to take care of me. Because I take care of a lot of people in a lot of ways. And I like really need like someone who's going to really listen to me and be there for me. I am by no means like, um, submissive wife vibes. You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, some people, I've also learned with dating is that,

I just don't take it personally anymore. I'm just like this or, you know, I'm just like, this is not working out. It's not because of me. I used to always blame me. When did you learn that? Because that's like a huge step in like just adult life.

Yeah, recently, honestly, like the past couple of years, it's just been so, and of course I get into a trap. I'm like, whoa, you know, like what happened there? But then I'm like, wait, like, did I even like that person? Like I also learned, do I want someone to like me or do I like them? That's such a huge step. I mean, I'll ask people all the time. They'll call. If I have a friend who's asking or someone calls in, they'll be like, you know, I want to talk to you about this. I'm like, well, how do you, what do you like about how they make you feel? It's always my favorite question because sometimes or often there's always like this,

Oh, um, well, uh, Oh, I never thought about how, how they made me feel. I was more thought about like, why don't, why haven't they texted me back or why aren't they calling or like, why are they being flaky on me? Like, why are they treating, like, why are they acting this way? And then immediately there's a thought though, like I'm doing something wrong. Right. What could I do differently and things like that. But like, it was funny that you just said not to, you know, moments ago where you realize that you're not for everyone. And like, to me, like that again, another, like,

huge pivotal like at least for me was that like

No one is, by the way. Yeah, I'm hoping I'm the one person who can buy for everybody. I'm here for everyone will love me. I'm like, yeah, no, you know, but that's the person who is people pleasing, who hasn't really realized who they are as a person and not even comfortable to be that person. You have to allow whether it's dating, whether it's friendship, whether it's just like being an adult in society is having the guts to be who you are and have people not like you.

- And it's so freeing. And I always admired that, 'cause when I was younger I would just get so caught up in like, what did I do wrong? And I'm like, probably a lot of stuff, but it just doesn't really matter. - Or not wrong, you just did something and it just wasn't for them, they don't vibe with you. There's so many people out there who are just like, not my cup of tea. And that's totally fine. - And there's someone else who's like, wow, this is my dream person.

I also think a lot of people think that they know who I am and they find out that that's not who I am. You know what I mean? Like people can...

And I do that too. Like I project personalities on people. And I think I also had to stop doing that where it's like, you just start like kind of making these like love stories in your head. And I'm like, I'm going to a point in my life where I'm just, I'm just tired. I don't want to do all that anymore. Do you find it to be easy or more difficult to date in the industry or outside of the industry? I have never really dated anyone in the industry. Just never have. Yeah. I think outside I've dated,

I've dated a lot of people who are creative, but they're not like actors. I definitely, you know, that's not usually what I go for, but I'm open to anything really. I'm like, I'm, I really am open to anyone who is like kind and actually wants to like talk to me and like hang out with me and spend time with me and like communicate, you know, I dated women most of my life. So I'm like, the communication has always been really big. And so it's just like, it's just,

For me, it's a lot. It's like, especially now I'm dating like a little bit more seriously. Like, I'm not just like, oh, this is just like to be together. It's like now it's more like, what do I want? I'm like, I want a baby in five years. You know, it's kind of getting I'm like, I'm getting older. Like, this is not as fun anymore when it's just like crazy. Like, you feel like you have like a timeline over your head or no, honestly, no. But I just I it's more of like a way to know.

Like sometimes I just don't know what I want and I'll like meet someone. I'm like, okay, but this person's not really that, but then it could be this. I'm just like, actually, I do know what I want. And it just have to be like confident enough to just be like, this is like, I do want commitment. It's tough, right? Like me, you know, like me, younger me was more like I, what I wanted was somebody and I wanted somebody who wanted me.

And that was kind of the baseline. That, me too. I think it is for most people. Anyone who wants to be with me, sure. And then you get older and you have relationships and heartbreak, you break up. And then that transitional period of knowing what you want for yourself, knowing and then what you want to give to someone else, and then having the patience to wait around for it continues.

Yeah. The patience is hard. But it's also like once you're in the relationship, it's so much work, you know? And it's not like... You think it's like relationships are just going to like save you and it's... Then, you know, I was in a serious relationship for three years and it was great. And then after, you know, it was still great. It was just...

either single or in a relationship, it's like you kind of fantasize about the opposite of it. You're like, oh, if I was single, like I wouldn't have this or like if I'm or like, you know, if I was in a relationship, I'll have someone to go with me. But it's like I just kind of like don't even think about it anymore in that way, because I just know that I'm getting pickier as I get older and more intentional with stuff. And I never even knew what I liked. Like I would just like if someone was like showed interest in me, I'd be like hype, you know, I'm like, yeah, it's like for a long time in my life. And now it's

A little bit more, you know, a little more discernment in that. Yeah, it's a, I had to figure out, there was a point before I met Natalie where when I was in my 20s, it was, you know, my parents were good role models, but the problem

sometimes the problem I have with good role models is like my parents tell me love is important and you have to fight for it. So it was like, oh, okay, well then I'll just fight for this, you know, kind of thing, you know, and, but sometimes I didn't really want to do that. So then, and then I got older and I was like, okay, you know, I finally figured out who I was in my late twenties, early thirties, and then took some risks and, and,

and had a you know did reality tv and that was all kind of weird but then you know so then i had this stint of reality tv and this controlled environment where they almost like make you feel like you're young again and it's all about these emotions and then so then i was dating it was more like i honestly like there was a point where in my 30s i was honestly worried and i thought to myself do i just need to pick somebody yeah do like you know like anybody you know like we get along

Yeah. I guess. This could work. You seem nice enough. Yeah. You're obviously beautiful, but like there's a part of me was like, am I too cynical? Am I looking for flaws? Am I looking, you know, and finding that balance between the person who like knows who they are.

and can be patient, but or am I looking for problems? Am I being avoidant or things like that? - It's so confusing. - Yeah, and I really struggle with that. I remember having those, I remember I say to my therapist, do I just need to do this? Because I was afraid I wasn't gonna fall in love because when I was younger, you're just like, oh, I don't know what this feeling is. I think we should date. And I couldn't replicate that feeling unless I was in this controlled environment

you know, on a TV show. And I was like, I don't, you're looking for that thing, you know? And does that, does anyone exist with that thing? Yeah. It can be a very scary feeling. It's super scary. I totally feel you. I feel like it's a very confusing. It's also like you have to choose to just like, you have to really choose to be there every day. It's like a very active decision. So if something is not working out, it can be like,

so hard to just like choose to be there, decide to like fix it. And then you have to know when to walk away. But it's also I don't think there is a clear cut. There's no like, oh, you guys should break up or not. It's more like, what do you see for yourself? Yeah, no one's like I broke up with them on the exact perfect day at the right time. You're always going to wonder one way or the other. You just kind of have to trust you all. You have to trust yourself. For me, I always think about like, do I want to live my life like this? You know what I mean? Do I want to feel this way every day?

If it's yes, then I'll continue. But if no, like if I literally am like, this can't happen anymore and it's been enough time where we've talked about it, then it's like, okay, then I guess I can make a decision for myself. If I feel bad now, but like, is this the norm? Yeah. Or is this something that is happening now, but like... We can go, come, yeah. If it gets, you know, the normal feeling with this person or this relationship generally brings me joy and happiness, but right now, you know, I need to fix the work. Which happens. I mean, that's what...

any kind of relationship. But yes, a lot of people, it's more the opposite. It's just like, you know, you ask them and they're like, I've been miserable for three years. Yeah. You know? And they're like, but we've been together for eight years. I can't just throw it away. Yeah. It's been eight years. You don't think it's like a really big like celebration and like, oh, we've been together forever, which is great. But it's also like, are you hanging on to something that is truly not serving you?

a purpose in your life that like is actually serving you. You know what I mean? It's yeah. What's your love language? Um, I like, I like a lot of quality time and well actually, you know what? Words of affirmation, big, big words of affirmation kind of girl. Yeah. I love it. I love to hear good things. I like to make sure that you tell me, like I like to be told, you know, and comforted in that way. So when you're not cooking, working,

making movies like what what are your guilty pleasures where you just kind of check out and and really kind of so many things I've started knitting recently and I've been knitting and I've been watching a lot of like either true crime podcast which is like very my mom very my mom or I'll watch like I

I watch the stupidest stuff. It's actually crazy. I was watching like, like the beast games and like, you know, stuff like that. It's just so, you know what I mean? It's like so fun to like, when I want to like take a load off, I will truly get into brain rot in a big way. So a lot of that, I like, you know, I was really into milf manner at one point. Wow. I love milf manner.

love Milfman. Is that the one Peter did? I believe so. That's with like the older... The older ladies and the young farmers. The first season was like with the younger... Yeah. My best friends. Yeah, but then they brought in the... They brought in the like...

Was it the dads and sons? Yes. Yes, Peter. It's incredible. Our friend show ran that. Oh my God. It's truly an incredible piece of, I actually think it's like, it's amazing. And whenever I tell people about it, they're like, what does that mean? I'm like, MILF men are the MILFs and the sons. Okay. And they're like, but not a porn. No. What? What?

They clearly know what's trending. You know what I mean? And it's smart. And it's really smart. Yeah. So I like to watch that. I like to hang out with my friends. Have you knitted anyone a sweater? No. I'm right now in the phase of knitting like...

bandanas for my dog and cat we're starting small we're starting very small it's very hard to knit actually and i've been like really getting into like the knit community around here i go to like the small business it's so cute there's a yarn shop and like everyone there it's like so much yarn is beautiful and like people like they have like classes there they like talk to you about knitting i'm just like i feel like i'm inducted into some sort of society it's great sisters it's a

It's so cute. Everyone has like their cute little knits, you know? Do you have like a, what are you going to knit when you really feel like you've

got it down. I think like a dress. I want to make like a little halter top dress. I used to, when I was a kid, I used to have a crochet string bikini and by kid, I mean like two years old because my great grandma knitted it for me or crocheted it for me. And so I kind of want to recreate it. I've been starting to like kind of recreate the bikini, but it's really hard. So I just keep just making squares and triangles really. And do you knit and watch TV? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. My, my, my grandmother Phyllis still with us was a, she would,

I used to live with, like, one time my then-girlfriend at the time broke up. We were engaged, actually. But, like, so we were living together. I had to move out. Well, I didn't have to move out. I wanted to get the fuck out of there. Of course. And then my grandmother, who I only refer to as Phyllis, because when I was born, she was, like, 50, and she was like, I'm not ready to be a grandmother. I love that. And she lived...

where, you know, the city I lived in and I was like, I need to get the fuck out of here. So I like, I like had to shame, shamefully what felt at the time, like live with my grandma, which ended up being like a great time because she's a night owl. And she, I would go out to the bars, hang out with my friends and come back. It'd be like two in the morning. She's up knitting, watching TV. That's so me. We would like download the night, you know, and I would talk about like my nights and things like that. And it ended up being like just a very memorable. I love it.

I'm a grandma girl. Like my grandma raised me basically. My mom was in school and like worked at a restaurant. So I barely saw her. But my grandma raised me. I'm like such a grandma's girl. Like my grandma and I are like very close. Was that hard for you when she went back to Brazil? Yes, I was 18. So I had, as soon as I moved out of the house, she was like, I'm out. I'm gone. It was really hard. I just saw her over the holidays when I was in New York and it was really sweet. But yeah, it was really hard. Did you get back to Brazil much?

I've been going more recently. I went last year. I went to Rio for work and then my mom, I like to go to Bahia, which is like my favorite place in Brazil. It's like so wonderful. It's like there's like a beach and it's just gorgeous. But it's so far. It's like

truly like a 25 hour journey of like many planes and drives and all sorts of things but it's worth it if I go I stay for a while so it's like really nice it's like little monkeys everywhere just like you know it's like it's truly it's like a little like storybook it's like my mom will send me videos when she's there she's just like the monkeys are stealing my fruit you know and they're like tiny little cute like little monkeys or like just giant sloths everywhere I'm like this is in mud roads it's so cool

It's so cool. What is next for you? Like what in the perfect world, do you have a dream job, a dream type of film, or even maybe a particular actor out there that you've always kind of...

uh maybe fascinated or dreamt about working with wow manifestation time yeah i think i've done a lot of contemporary stuff like a lot of the things i've done even the films i haven't come out yet which you know i think this year a couple of them will come out i really want to make something that's kind of like a period piece like i really want to you know step outside of just like the 2010s 2020s and just is there a particular period that fascinates you the most i feel like i would do pretty good in like the 20 like like not like super period but like 20s and like

maybe like 40s or something that's a great yeah I feel like that's like you know like kind of like the kind of like boudoir like pin-up kind of like just like a lot of I think that would be really cool I mean I'm open to whatever it is but I think that'd be really nice and I think you know my favorite actress is like Cate Blanchett like that like obviously it would be my dream is there anyone in history that you would do like a biopic on oh my gosh yeah who oh god let's see well the thing is like

People are very picky with that because they're like, you don't look like this person. I'm like, but what if I have prosthetics? Yeah. Yeah. You have no idea. I'm like the world. If the penguin can happen with prosthetics and if people, you know, there was like the Tammy Faye with Jessica Chastain. I'm like, if Colin Farrell can play the penguin. Literally. So much prosthetics. Come on now. Why can't I play, insert name here? Yeah. I don't know exactly who I would play. I feel like,

There's no one that you're specifically drawn to from history that you're like, that would just be interesting to challenge yourself? I am fascinated by actresses of the past who kind of, you know, I really love the theatrics of kind of old Hollywood. So, I don't know. I would say, maybe I shouldn't say it yet, but I am working on something that may or may not happen about someone of that nature. Oh!

So that's why I'm like, I don't know. I think someone else and I was like, maybe I should. But yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Well, Barbie, this has been so much fun. Thank you for having me. You're so fun to talk to. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I could keep going, but I know you have to get going. So listen, uh,

She's busy. Thank you for taking the time. It's been so much fun. Congratulations on a very beautiful movie. Thank you. Everyone check it out. Bob Trevino likes it. March 21st in select theaters in New York, LA and then March 28th in other theaters. Check it out.

Check it out. It's a really, it's a great friend film. It's a great film. You go with your family. It, you know, you will be emotional, but like it really, most of my other work is not very family friendly. So this is the family friendly one. Very family friendly. You will, you will want to watch, you will see this film and you will want to connect with people afterwards. And I think that's a very beautiful thing that we all need today. So thanks so much. So much fun to have with you. See you guys tomorrow. Bye.

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