E908 Going Deeper – Temptation Island Reunion
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You guys look great. Thank you. Don't make eye contact. Oh, God. All right, watch your step, ladies. We'll take that paper. Is everyone ready? Let's just take a big...

Deep breath. You guys are in good hands. Safe space. Is this the first time you've done like a mini reunion? We did Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Very similar. We'll see if you guys can be messier than them. I have faith in you. You're crazy.

All right, well, let's get started. Everyone, welcome to The Vile Files, or should we call it the unofficial reunion of Temptation Island. Yeah. Welcome. Let's just have a round of applause for showing up. All right, who's more nervous than the final bonfire? Probably me. You are? I did not give two thoughts to my final bonfire. I was like, done and ready. What makes this more nervous? Grant's performance on social media for the last several weeks. Okay.

Grant, are you nervous? I'm ready. You're ready. Okay. You're looking nice. Thank you. Tyler? I'm a little nervous. Definitely not more nervous than the final bonfire because we had to sit in a van for two hours alone beforehand, which was torture. Is that with your thoughts? Yeah, a little too long. How about you, Taylor? I really don't know. I'm just kind of here, but I'm not more nervous. I'm...

I feel like I stood on business and I'm ready to do it again. Love the brown hair. Thank you. Thanks, twin. That's great. Congratulations to our happy couple. Thank you. Thank you. We made them sit across from each other, but they are still together. We made them sit across from each other. We thought they did. They took one for the team. They did a kindness to the rest of the group. Thanks, guys. Thanks.

They could stare at each other. I know, I miss them already. Can we see the rings? Yeah. Wow. Is this the one you picked out? I did. Yeah, it's actually different. On the show, like, it shows him ring shopping. Yeah. He hated all the rings that the producers offered. So he, like, told them to get an emerald cut, gold.

And they made it in LA, overnighted it to Hawaii, and then proposed the next day. I respect that. He was not going to do it without something I didn't like. They gave me four to five options in Hawaii at the jeweler, and they were all horrendous. I said, I know exactly what I want. Here are the specifications. And they overnighted it the next day. Came together beautifully. You're very stylish. Thank you. You have a great sense of style. Tyler, I was really excited looking forward to what hairstyle you would do.

I feel like you have a very versatile, some options to go. Every scene it's different. Every single one. I was like, oh, we're slicked back today. It will change. Wonderful. Unfortunately, Brianna and Shantae couldn't join us. They certainly tried. They had some work obligations. I think specifically Brianna did, but they, they wanted to be a part of this. Sadly, they couldn't make it. It certainly wasn't anything about them avoiding this atmosphere.

And if we get the opportunity to bring them on, we will look to do that. But that is why they are not with us today. You know, everyone, including Nellie and ourselves, are very fascinated with you guys and why you decided even to embark on this journey and on the show in the first place. Obviously,

Ashley and Grant and Tyler and Taylor are no longer together, but we have Alexa and Lena who are still together, not only together, but engaged. So I think it's very fascinating to kind of see just the spectrum of what this show and this experience can do for couples. And

I'm always very fascinated with it because, you know, for me, we talk a lot about relationships on the show, my wife Nellie and I. It really comes down to what couples want to stay together, you know, what couples want to put in the work, what couples are actually compatible. I think what's fascinating about this group of people, I think it was a really

interesting insight to a lot of very common themes when it comes to various relationships, why they work, why they don't work. And I'm excited to explore that today with all of you guys. So I am curious for our happy couple, what made you want to do this in the first place? Because I was a little bit surprised

as the season went on that you even started thinking of an engagement, knowing your girlfriend at the time was at a different house with a bunch of men. Certainly you got to check in at the bonfires, but you know, was that something you were even thinking of going into temptation Island? Hey, if we pass this test, I want to do this or did that happen organically? Yeah, I think I can start with this one. Like you were saying,

these common themes that a lot of relationships have to struggle with or overcome. Even yesterday, I talked to someone in my building who his wife is a travel nurse and moving, having to change your career, go in different directions. It always makes some relationships strife. And we were at our third move when we got the call from the casting company. And at that point we had a huge fight the week before we got the recruiting call. And it, it honestly seemed like a godsend. It was,

you know, we're ready to either make that next big step and having this test was exactly what we needed and going on, we knew exactly what we wanted to get out of it. And yeah,

We did it. What was the fight about? I think it was like a career path fight again, because we had just moved and you were getting like frustrated. The fact that you've moved so many times with me and you felt like your life was on hold because it was just projecting or like propelling mine. So that's kind of what it was about. But I feel like back to like your question, we had talked about engagement before the show. So it wasn't like that was the first time we had talked about it.

Obviously, like three and a half years in, we're 28 years old. Like, what's the next step? So it was definitely like on our minds. But there was I was Lino's first real relationship. He's had like little flings here and there. But it was kind of like, OK, is she really my first and only love? Like, is there more out there? And we kind of figured, well, yeah.

If you're going to cheat in like 10 years, when we're married and kids, that's worse. So like try to get it out now in a way. You know what I mean? Because I would rather him get it out now, know that it's me in the end.

And not cheat on me in like 10 years when we have kids. Obviously you guys dealt with some relationship turmoil before you went into the show with, I believe your infidelity, not to point it out. But obviously you were open and sharing about that. I am curious.

From both of your point of views, for you, Lino, was this in a way a test for Alexa to see, you know, could she go to a house with a bunch of eligible tempters and things like that and prove her faithfulness? And then follow-up question for you, Alexa, was there a part of you that was prepared for Lino to take advantage of his experience as almost a...

A hall pass for, you know, almost to even the playing field or in a way, was that in the back of your mind wondering, okay, well, if he, you know, he does anything, even Steven, was there any kind of thought process around that? For myself, I was never...

afraid that she would cheat physically. More so emotionally was the only thing that was making me somewhat nervous, but I do truly think the test was for me. Just going into it, both of our families have

had multiple marriages. Everyone has an infidelity, had not stayed together. So I wanted to make sure that five, 10 years down the road that I wouldn't make these mistakes. And it felt like the perfect stress test. And how did you guys work through the initial infidelity? Because obviously there's always a lot of opinions about it. It can be a very detrimental thing that happens to a relationship. There are couples who do get through it. That being said, there's a big difference between something happening, working

through and then potentially dealing with multiple occurrences and a bunch of false apologies and things like that where you're constantly forgiving for the same thing. You're just like, oh my God, you're still doing it. Can I take this one? Yeah, go for it. Okay, so the beginning of our relationship, Lino and I weren't like...

I kind of messed up where I told like one guy I was exclusive, you know, I told another guy I was exclusive. We weren't like boyfriend, girlfriend per se. But yes, that was a huge mistake of mine to tell two people that I was exclusive. That was wrong. And I own that. But I think how we got through it is honestly time and me choosing Lino every single day for three and a half years. Like sure, in the beginning, it was really rough.

Because at first he felt like the second choice because I was between two people. But as time moved on, honestly, like it sounds cheesy, but time kind of heals everything because I was choosing him every single day. That guy is so far removed from my life and that whole path is so far removed. But every single day, like when I'm choosing Lino and we're being together and just present with each other, I just feel like

that helped us overcome this whole second choice situation. You agree? Yeah. And I believe in second chances too. I had spoke to my parents about it, people really close to me, and she had just came out of a young, young marriage and not getting much attention in her college days and early days coming out of that and being set free into the world. I understood what I did in college and how I acted. So I'm

practice grace in that setting. Did the two of you do couples therapy or did you just kind of work together? Just the two of you. Alexa did some therapy. I did some individual therapy. Yeah. Nothing couples related, but I did individual therapy for like the first like six months of our relationship every Wednesday. And then I would call, you know, I can tell them all about it. So it was really good for me just to like heal from, it was more so for me to heal from the divorce and all the guilt that I had.

Because it kind of happens at such a young age. And then I just moved on. Like I never really addressed the feelings that I was having with it. And then I kind of brought it into our relationship. Like all that guilt, everything that you saw, that was 100% real. And so I went to individual therapy for a while. I felt like I almost graduated.

And, yeah, and we've never gone together, but it's definitely something we're open to. Our communication now has never been better, honestly, since the show. Really made us stronger to go through that. We haven't had one serious fight since coming back from the island. So, positive. It's been really great, honestly. That's a lot. Now we're like, what about that? Taylor and Tyler, how did you guys feel?

Find out about the opportunity and where was your relationship at the time in which you started and ultimately what made you guys want to come on to Temptation Island and test the relationship the way you did? Great question. You want to start? Go ahead. Okay. Well, I mean, we met at a very strange time in my life. Yeah. Literally going through divorce and separation after marriage.

about five or six years of that relationship. And at first we were just close friends. We had mutual friends. And then after four months of hanging out, we kind of got physically intimate. Were you separated at the time? Yeah, I was still technically married at the time. And that was one of her... Stipulations. Yeah, stipulations was obviously like...

The divorce has to be finalized. And there's a lot more issues than that that even I was going through, like a lot of baggage from that. And we kind of worked through that. You mentioned at the final bonfire that even in that relationship, you fell maybe underappreciated, unseen. Can you share a little insight into what the biggest struggle with that relationship was and why that ultimately led to a separation? Yeah, I mean, it was...

It was a beautiful marriage. I wouldn't take it back for anything. The first five years was just amazing. We kind of had it made, just owned a beautiful home, had a great, fantastic job. It was kind of like everything you would want as a young 20-year-old and kind of felt like I had it made. But

She came to me one day and asked me if she could talk to this girl that she met at a restaurant. And I was like, why are you asking me if you can talk to a girl? And it was over the course of two months from that first conversation where she asked me that, it just progressed. And she ended up kind of getting into an intimate relationship with another woman. And, you know...

Her excuse was like, yeah, we got married very young. And I was, you know, I grew up Christian. So I was like, I wanted to do it right, you know, to get married as soon as possible. And she felt like she couldn't really like sow her wild oats and everything. And so, you know, and I did give her a hall pass on that relationship. I was like, we have the best marriage, in my opinion. You know, if you need to figure something out, this is a safe place to do that. You know, but it was a little bit more than that.

I could actually handle. And so it only took about two months, a lot of fights. And I felt like I was kind of gaslighting her because I gave her the hall pass, but then I was like just emotionally a wreck, you know, and starting to get very angry. Um, and I'm normally don't like get angry like that. So it sounds like maybe you gave her a physical hall pass, but yeah, an emotional one. Oh, it wasn't supposed to be emotional. It was only physical, you know, and you know, and her, I don't know if it was an excuse, but she, um,

Didn't feel like she could be, you know, physical without an emotional attachment, which makes sense. But yeah, long story short, I, you know, obviously I felt betrayed, you know, through that, you know, we sought some counseling and the counselor was like, well, it sounds like,

He said it sounds like she needs a lot of time to figure out herself because she's 24, 25, trying to explore that. And then the counselor looked at me and said, and it sounds like you're out of time. He saw the look on my face. And so I packed up all my stuff, moved out, moved to downtown Nashville.

And, you know, I did have a thought that, you know, she would kind of leave her and, you know, hopefully we would like kind of figure it out. But they're still together, you know. So like, you know, happy for her, I guess. Is that like almost a silver lining in a way? Yeah. I mean, you know, as long as she's happy, you know, because, you know, if...

If that's better for her, then I don't want to keep her trapped in a marriage that she doesn't want to be in. Well, thanks for sharing a little background about that. I know I was kind of interested in what that experience was like. Yeah, and then leading into our relationship, it was...

I didn't realize the full effect that that had on me of like that betrayal. Codependency also. Sure. A lot of baggage, I guess. And so when we got the call for the show, we had been on and off again for, what, two and a half years? Mm-hmm.

So you had broken up a few times already in that relationship. Oh, yeah. Yeah, probably just like twice officially. One when he kissed a girl at a bar and I got a video of it when I was on vacation. Okay. The other one when he took my friend home from a bar and spent the night with her. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It's not entirely true, but yes. Please rebuttal. Well...

Although I will, I want to say so far, I appreciate everyone giving each other a chance to speak. I mean, most, we only officially dated for a few months, like the first time. And then we emotionally exclusive for pretty much that whole two and a half years. But after the divorce was final, you know, she was like, okay, like we got to get this moving. And so I officially asked her out. And then we just had a lot of issues those first few months.

few months. But what about the kissing at the bar? Yeah. And that's when we actually decided to take a break and she was going on a work trip to Belize. And then on that break, yeah, that's when she got the video of. Gotcha. Yeah. And that was the whole infidelity thing on the show. And the cheating thing was me kissing someone at a bar when we were on a break. What about the taking the friend? We weren't even dating at that time.

Yeah. I mean, but we were so emotionally exclusive, like we were dating. I mean, it was a whole two and a half year situationship, if you will. We were official for those couple of months, but I wasn't sleeping or seeing anybody else vice versa. But you slept with your ex-boyfriend right after. No, I didn't. Yes, you did. You remember you said you had regrets about it and you wish you didn't do that. No. And it was literally right after the Belize trip. Don't recall.

Well, you did. Okay. Yeah. So, and we like, that was like a whole topic of conversation. And I talked about that of like, yeah, my infidelity was kissing someone on a break. And then a couple of days later, back from your trip, you went to go sleep with your friend. I believe it was after you took your friend to the concert at Bridgestone, the Adam Sandler concert. I went with a girl.

with a girl. I know, but it was after that. You said after that you called him. We had a whole entire conversation. I really don't know what you're talking about at all because I dated a girl before I dated him. So I don't know which ex-boyfriend he was talking about. How did you hear about this alleged story? From her.

Okay. I heard it from her mouth. We had a whole entire conversation about it. You guys know me and how honest I am from the show. I'm 10 toes down always. I absolutely own up to some shit like that because it doesn't matter to me. But you can write whatever narrative you want. What does that night look like in your memory? This Bridgestone Adam Sandler. Oh, yeah. So it was his Christmas present. I bought tickets to see Adam Sandler at Bridgestone.

We weren't together at this time because he had taken my friend home from a bar. So I asked my friend Lexi to go with me. And that's all we did. We went there and then we went on Broadway and then I went home. She can vouch for me too, my friend Lexi, I'm sure. And you're saying at some point other... Oh, that's a flat out lie. Yeah. You know what I mean? Okay.

Well, I don't, but I mean, we're just going to have to let the people decide. I appreciate you guys both sharing your version. I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure I'll have receipts on that one. So, you know, nothing I'm worried about. So who initially's idea was it to go on the show? They reached out technically to both of us. We were in the Netflix database because of another show we were interviewing for. Um,

when Netflix was cracking down on the password sharing and they pulled some shows that show we were interviewing for got pulled, but they let us know we're keeping you in the database. And that was a year ago. Well, a year from we got the call. Um, they were like, are you guys still together? And we're like, yeah, sorta. And yeah, he was a big proponent. I feel like he was driving the boat because he had the things he wanted to prove. And I was just kind of along for the ride. Okay.

If I may, you don't strike me as someone who's along for the ride. You seem more like a leader. Agreed. So I would, in terms of what role did you play in terms of saying yes to this? Because it is hard as a viewer to believe that you were just more of the demure, I guess we'll go because Tyler wanted to go. Well, they reached out to me. All of this communication, like for the first show was all me. Okay.

When they came back around, I just told him like, hey, what do you think about this Temptation Island? Like, let's start watching it and see what you think. So I guess you could say I was the catalyst. But once it came down to, oh, are we really going to do this after multiple interviews? I would say he was the one to be like, yes, let's do it. And what was your relationship like a month before you left for the show?

We were going to break up when we got the call. That was the whole thing. So they called us and they're like, we haven't talked in about a year. How's it going? And we're like, well, because we just got back from a trip to Mexico and it was a rough trip. I paid for completely. Okay. Unnecessary.

What about Costa Rica a couple months before that? A couple months. That was two years before that. And I've paid for every single vacation after that. Okay. So I guess we can address this storyline. So let me ask you this question. Were you financially supporting me? You weren't financially.

100% living with me, but you were living off of me. So absolutely. What do you mean by that? Yeah. How was I living? So he split time between my house and his pregnant sister, their one-year-old and husband's house. He did not have a home of his own. So he spent 50, 50 basically did not pay anything in bills. Groceries would come over to my house, eat everything, make a mess, then leave, go back to his sisters. And then she would take care of them. So did you have a house Tyler? Yeah.

Did you have somewhere else to go except my house or your pregnant sister's house? I spent very little time at your house. And you talked about, we talked about that. We had several conversations about that leading up to the show. You didn't even want me to stay at your house. You didn't even want me around. Like we were about to break up.

And literally the relationship was in shambles and we wanted to figure out if it was gonna work. But you never financially supported me. You never paid for- Who paid for the majority of the dates? That's why we didn't go out on dates. That is not true. Okay. Let me ask you this. When this was happening-

When I met Natalie, when couples meet, you're at different stages of relationship. Sometimes you're at different earning potential and things like that. We have a bit of an age gap in our relationship. When I met Natalie, I was in a different position of my life. And so there were things that I paid for, mostly because I was in that position. But at the time in which I did it, I was very happy to do it. It was more like, this is the relationship I want to be in.

This is who I'm dating. I'm accepting my partner where they're at. Was that your mindset at the time? Or did you always kind of resent Tyler for his financial situation, whatever it was from your perception? I'm a Southern woman at heart. I believe in gender roles. I mean, I feel like the man should be in their masculine and pay for things. So yes, I was a little resentful.

And is that something when you were, when he's going through his divorce and you guys are dating, what was your expectation or understanding of Tyler's situation? I guess my, my question is, is like when you started this relationship, what exactly were you saying yes to, right? Because like in relationships, when we're 18, 19, it's like, you're hot. I feel something. Let's date. You know, there's, that's, that's just,

As far as it goes, as we get older, we have past relationships, we have experiences. So what were you, did you accept Tyler at the time or was it immediately like, I love you because you're like hot and tall, but like. Get a job. Get a job. So he had a job when we first got together. He had the high rise apartment in downtown Nashville, the nice car. So all these things is what drew me to him. Gotcha.

and connected us close together. It was about a year into our relationship where he said, and honestly, I'm going to write the narrative. Sorry, Tyler, you didn't walk away. You got fired. So there you go. That was another little detail that I was trying to keep close to my heart on the show for his sake, but him being on social media, doing these Q and A's and saying that I was lying, we're not going to play that. What Q and A's are, I'm,

I'm aware of some stuff, but I haven't totally. He's been doing question boxes on his Instagram stories, answering questions that people have. So anyway. And you've had exceptions to a couple of his answers?

Oh, yeah. It gets sent to me, unbeknownst to me. It's not like I'm seeking them out or anything like that. Social media is a good thing. Yeah, I do have. So when we met, I was making a lot of money, high rise, nice car, all that. And literally, I had a lot of stuff that I had to go through. You know what I mean? Yeah.

My whole leaving corporate America and everything was the biggest blessing in my life. You know what I mean? And when you're in a relationship with somebody, like I shared all that with her, you know what I mean? And she helped me through that. And there's a lot of stuff that I had to fix. You know what I mean?

Now it just kind of feels, especially on the show, like I'm being gaslit for, you know, trying to like follow my dreams and do something new. You know what I mean? And change my narrative and go in my direction. And because of what she wants, which is the gender roles and all that, it's just...

unacceptable for her. That's very clear and that's allowed to be unacceptable, you know, but when you did meet me, I was at a good place, yeah sure financially and all that, but I wasn't in a good place in a lot of other areas and I had to make so many sacrifices to try and get my shit straight. - Like sacrifices like what?

Like literally like everything in my life changed. We're talking about job stuff, we're talking about dream stuff, we're talking about relationship stuff, better relationship with my family, you know what I mean? There's just, I was a mess, you know? So that's how it just feels now is like now she's saying, okay, you know, I was this horrible guy and I was this a deadbeat.

off of you. You know what I mean? And I understand that you were attracted to me because I was the breadwinner and I was in a strong relationship and I played that masculine role, you know, but shit changes. And I stood by you for an entire year. I literally didn't ask you for shit until we were about to go on Temptation Island and I was trying to ask you for an action plan, which is a normal thing to do as a grown adult to ask your partner, hey, can we just make a plan?

I know. I didn't plan about what? Are we going to get a job in the next six months? What do you see for the future? What do you want to talk about? I mean. So this is where I disagree a little bit. Our relationship was not how she's perceiving it to be like we're dating. We're sitting down having financial future conversations. It was a complete shit show. And you know, it was. I can agree that it was a shit show, but that doesn't mean that I didn't support your dreams or these lofty ideas that you had to walk away from corporate America. Yeah.

I said, okay, I'll stand by you and we're going to do this until I'm sick of it. And I got fucking sick of it. And then you turned. And that's fine. I didn't say you didn't support me. I didn't say any of that. But that's what I'm saying. On the show, literally you flipped and said, you know, I'm a deadbeat living at your house, which is...

I never clarified and said that you lived with me. I said, I pay the mortgage. I buy the groceries. I never said Tyler lived in my house. It was your house? Yes. Yeah. It was my house.

And what are your dreams that you keep referring to? What is it you want to do? Well, entertainment, honestly, just music, you know, and I've had a lot of fun just modeling, doing stuff like, you know, the Netflix thing and just much different than what's that? What? Oh, sorry.

What was that? I just was saying, you're saying entertainment. I'm like talking about the show that you guys went on together. Yeah. That's always been a dream. Yeah. Well, that's also been her dream too. So, I mean, I mean, look at your Instagram. I mean, if we can, if you want to take it there, I mean, you're the number one clout chaser on this entire thing. You literally used me to meet all these people in Nashville because you got out of a marriage. You jumped to Kay on the show. Didn't genuinely have a connection with her. Just found out she had the most followers. Yeah.

If you want to look to Lino, I can play a voice recording from Lino saying that you were doing that. Taylor, I'm sorry. I have to interject here. Grant, this isn't about you right now, actually. He hasn't attacked you a single time. I'm not attacking him. This is all the truth. All you've done is bash on him. This is the truth. I'm speaking my truth. Nothing is wrong with that. Your truth has to attack him as a person? It's not attacking. That's wrong. This is a situation involving our relationship, and I'm just talking about that.

I want to move on for a bit and pause on this for a second. But for the four individuals who are single, or at least not with each other, clearly there's some hard feelings. Clearly there seems to be some resentment. I am specifically for Tyler and Taylor, and we'll move on to you two. Where do you feel like that anger still comes from? Because it has been, what, how long since you guys have been broken up? Nine months since the show, I guess. Yeah. So where's most of the frustration come from at this point?

I can answer that. My frustration is from

the out of context misleading information from the show like I've completely moved on from this you know the only thing that's kind of getting me angry right now is just this stance that she's trying to take in I feel like she still needs to put me down in order to put herself up and I don't get that tactic you went through a lot in the two and a half years and there's a lot of stuff that I would never bring up and I held back on the show not going to talk about it now but I don't need to put you down

in order to feel better about my decisions. I'm in a much better place now and happy and moved on. So my resentment, or I just feel like it's just a little bit heated right now because of just, I just feel like some misleading information. What about you, Taylor? I really don't have much. I'm just stating the truth. And I just hate hearing around, you know, social media and his Q and A's that I've been lying and things of that nature. But you do seem a bit,

I mean, this is just my stance. When I get confrontational, this is how I get. I mean, I don't really have anything to say about that. Ashley and Grant, two of you were together for two and a half years. Is that right? A year and a half. A year and a half. On and off before. On and off as well. Yeah. Okay. So what was the state of your relationship before going on to Temptation Island? It was rocky for sure. It was? Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of resentment from the beginning. What happened at the beginning that caused resentment? Uh,

I cheated on Ashley. Okay. How did Ashley find out? She got a DM. What was the cheating like? What was the cheating like? What did you do? Yeah. Like, did you go home with the girl? Did you kiss the girl at the bar? He left my apartment to go take a business meeting, which was not a business meeting and then came home to me.

The two of you clearly worked through that, though. No. You didn't. Well, that's kind of why we ultimately decided that the show could be a good idea, right? Okay. So you guys going on the show was a direct result from your initial infidelity? We had a very real intention for going on the show. It wasn't...

I think a lot of the other couples had months of thinking about it, applying and whatever else. We had like two weeks. It was very sudden, but we decided to do it. We thought it, you know, it's either going to make us or it's going to break us. So that's why we went, you know.

We were very on and off, like I said. And the last time we broke up before the show, we go back and forth on who's begging for who and what the position is. Last time we broke up before the show, he was chasing me down, trying to prove like I can trust him X, Y, Z. And I'm very much like a signs from the universe person. So I was like manifesting, like, should I be with this man? Like, what do I do? And one of my close friends was casting for the show and

And I kept seeing him post it and he posted his like last call and I was like, fuck it, just like submit us. And then I got a call from California and I was sitting there with him and I was like, he was like, don't answer it. Like we're not doing it. And then she called and left a voicemail. And I've always said like, I don't know how I feel about having my own kids, but I was like, if I ever had a kid, I like Naomi was on the list.

And the voicemail was from a girl named Naomi. And so I was like, we're calling back. And so it was just like weird. What was your biggest reason for initially not wanting to go on? It's fucking crazy. Okay. Sure. What do you mean? Like you already resent me. I've already fucked up enough. And you want to put me on an island with 12 single girls? That's fucking crazy. So in a way, do you think you were almost doubting your ability to...

it's it's more that it was just it's obviously a shit show like there's no good reason of uh that i could think of to go at the initially when you know she said hey you know this guy reached out and you know we could maybe go on this netflix show at first i was like fuck no why would we do that that makes no sense then you know started thinking about it i was like

you know what? This could be like a golden opportunity. Like all I have to do is not sleep with a girl for three weeks. And then you let go of this resentment. It's a miracle thing. Okay, sure. Let's try it. It was just not sleeping with the girl. You're, you're, I mean, because, well, because she had this resentment already. Yeah. I mean,

I was thinking, I'm like, all right, I'm not cheating on you right now. I have cheated on you in the past. I've been trying to chase you over this last year and a half. It's been hell for both of us. You're not letting go of this resentment. Okay, all I have to do is not cheat, which I'm not doing right now. Okay, let's do it. Okay. That was my thought process, which is why I said, all right, fine. Let's be open to it. Okay. You know? Thoughts, feelings, concerns. I got nothing.

Just let him keep speaking. Do you feel like what he's saying isn't true? I mean, that was the story. That was what it was. And like during the interviews, it was when it switched and it was like, oh, this is a golden opportunity to do that. He was taking interviews saying like, I want to marry her. Like I could see myself proposing at the end of this. Oh, wow.

So you went into this experience, I guess here's my question. How hopeful were you versus like how like realistic about what this experience actually would bring? So like, what did your gut tell you? Like, cause cause you're, you're talking about, Hey, I was hoping this and I was hoping this, but this is a man who you had dated for a year and a half. You guys had some problems.

you know, like how, how much did you believe that this experience could really bring you guys together versus will this experience just kind of give me the clarity I need firsthand? Because, you know, sometimes when we're in relationships and it's not going well, you know, oftentimes we stay in relationships because of how we met or how long we dated or how much work we've put into this. And it's just like, man, man, fuck, man. It's just like,

don't let this work. I don't want to start over, you know, but sometimes you find that we're in relationships for the wrong reasons and we're fighting for relations for the wrong reasons. And I'm curious from your standpoint, thinking back, like, what do you think is more true? I fully wanted clarity. Like I had no idea what I wanted. Like I wanted clarity.

him to be good to me and I wanted him to prove himself. But the reality of the situation was like, I really don't think he's going to make it through this. And it depends on like at what point you're asking me, like, obviously I was hopeful that it didn't turn out the way it did. Um, but the moment we were separated on the show, I just like, I knew there's no way. Did you want him to propose?

I don't know. I don't think so. I don't really remember what the conversation was like at that point when he made those comments because he had taken an interview by himself. Like we both had to interview separately for one of the last stages. And he told me that he had said that about proposing and it kind of took me.

off guard and like I don't know I don't really remember consider that or say that uh yeah so what I said in my interview is that I am trying to figure out is this girl the one for me is is this someone that I could see being a stepmother to my child is this someone that can be my partner in life and you know she had supported me a lot over the last year and a half but I

with this thing over my head. You know, there wasn't... What's this thing? My past, my infidelity, me cheating on her, right? And it was so toxic. It was terrible. You know, we'd break up. I'd go do something with the girl. We'd get back together. I'd lie about it. She'd find out. We'd have more resentment. Do it again and again. And we just had this terrible year and a half. I mean, it was bad. You know, but when we got the call for the show...

I've always wanted a family. I've always wanted to be married one day. I had a kid, a beautiful little girl, and I had introduced her to Ashley and I was trying to figure out. And so when I was on this interview, they were asking me, of course, you know, they prompted the question, you know, would you ever marry this girl? And I said, I don't know right this second, but if this goes well, if we figure out that we want to be together, yeah. I mean, obviously like the show is going to show us, you know, can we make this work?

can we do it and if we can then yeah of course i'd marry that girl you talked uh just now you you talk a lot about you know the initial infidelity and that obviously being a

challenging your relationship, but you kind of speak on it in a way it's as if like there was nothing you can do about it after the infidelity. But then when you talk more about it, you kind of talk about every time you took a break, it's just like, well, then you went and met another girl. Like at any point after the infidelity, were there things that you felt like you needed to change about yourself as a boyfriend or just your actions? Not then. Not then. No, not at all. I think...

I was so focused on how she was treating me when we were together that when we would break up, I'd be like, damn, okay, finally I'm free and I could go do what I want to do, but then I would miss her and then we would get back together and I never learned my lesson. So when you say not then, what has changed for you between then and now? I mean, look, I cheated on TV. Everyone knows that. Everyone saw it.

and i had to really look at myself in the mirror and face some things that i didn't like uh i took accountability we tried to make it work and it uh it didn't and you know now i have a regret that i didn't think i would have but my regret is not walking away when i first crossed that line i mean we could have saved us i could have saved us two years of turmoil

- Which, the initial infidelity? - Yeah. - Yeah, but that's hindsight, it's 2020. You guys dated for so long after that. - Right, hindsight, that's what I'm saying, I'm surprised. - No, I understand, but do you really regret, have you learned nothing about yourself as a man, as a boyfriend, even after that, or even going on Temptation Island with Ashley,

that would make you maybe not want to regret that experience. Cause like, you know, Natalie likes to joke like before Natalie, I'm not allowed to talk about it. You know, she calls it the end, but I've had relationships. I've been engaged. I've been on TV with relationships and like they, you know,

- They didn't work out, but I learned a lot about myself, both as a person, as a partner. I had been cheated on, but I had to look in the mirror and say, not that it was my fault, but what role did I play? So what in those experiences have you learned about yourself

I asked because, you know, and again, this is so fun. I mean, not for you guys, but for us, for the people watching and listening to really get to know you as people, right? We, we taught, we watch these shows. They're edited. We understand that there's a storyline. We understand that. So now it's, it's nice to get to know the people, but watching the show, it's something I often say a lot to my audience, but you seem to be, you come across on the show as

And I say this a lot, and I think a lot of, especially ladies listening, and you might feel the same way, but you seem like a guy who really loves having a girlfriend, but you don't love being a boyfriend. Not at the time. I think I got a lot of things wrong. I don't think I understood what it took to have what I was wanting. And that's the truth. And I still didn't figure it out even on the show. I figured out really what I wanted, like what my non-negotiables were, and ultimately

Ultimately, I decided that she wasn't giving me what I really needed. And that's why I decided to move on. Now, I should have broken up with her again, making the same mistake that I made a year and a half prior. But I didn't learn my lesson

like what I could have been doing better until after the show until dating Natalie until cheating on Natalie with Ashley and until really fucking it all up you know like it took it took a lot unfortunately it did take that much for me to really figure it out and then you know Ashley and I were together I mean from I don't know August until

I think the end of January, we were consistently talking whether, you know, she wanted to be talking to me or not. We were talking and talking and we eventually started dating. We spent the whole holidays together. Just past. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we were together for, I don't know, six months, you know, trying to work it out. Post Natalie. Post Natalie. Okay. Exclusively only dating for two months or so. But,

but at that point you know i was ready to marry her i i everything in me i was like damn grant you're a fucking idiot like what what do you what did you do i mean the last 10 years of my life i had been fucking up and not learning my lesson and it took all of this for me to figure it out and you know we tried and it didn't work what is being a boyfriend mean to you being a boyfriend yeah um i

I think now it means a little bit different than it did. I think when we were together prior to the show, I wasn't listening. I wasn't understanding. I didn't have as much empathy as I did after. And I wasn't a rock for her. And I think all of those things, now I know that that's what I have to deliver to, I guess, expect what I want in my partner. How are you feeling listening to him speak on the relationship?

I don't know what I was expecting him to say. I think that everything he's saying is, like, valid, true, and he should have just left it at that. I fully, like, admitted in the Netflix article that we got back together. He did everything he could, and I couldn't get past it. Like...

I felt as though he had put in the work and I just couldn't move past what we went through. So when you guys got back together, do you feel like you saw at least some growth in Grant? I did. And then everything just went to shit the last few weeks. Would you mind speaking on that some? Yeah, what went to shit? Just like the way you reacted to everything. Like,

posting screenshots when the initial like teaser trailer came out, he called me and like bitched me out saying I look like such a hoe in the trailer.

While I, an hour later, found out there was another girl in his bed as he was calling me doing this. I think after the show, there was so much noise and I felt this need to explain, to explain the truth, like understand me, understand what's happening. And I only recently realized that it doesn't matter that, like, I don't need to...

to be understood. I need to understand myself and for God to understand me. And that is literally it. I know what I learned. I know what I became. I know what I'm becoming. And that's it. Is that true? What Ashley said in terms of what you said to her? I don't think I said you're a hoe, but I was probably a little heated there.

But yeah, I called her surprised because she was telling me that certain things didn't happen on the show and the trailer was making it seem a certain way. And again, I shouldn't have called her at all, but I did. So do you feel like you owe an apology for whatever you did say? Yeah, if I called her a hoe. Yeah. Ashley? You quite literally texted me and said, I should have fucked Alex too.

I would love to see that receipt. That's crazy. All the single girls have it as well. Wow. If you're looking for it. Do you have it? I don't have it on me, but yeah. Wow.

you don't remember that i don't remember sending that no but yeah after the show was so crazy like seeing everything going on and i got so heated i even called ashley while she was on the live and i yelled i was so so heartbroken so so confused as to what was going on i mean she was calling the mother of my child

saying, I'm so worried about Graham. So I'm so worried about him and Emory and blah, blah, blah. While simultaneously. When is this happening? Two weeks ago. This is recent. Two weeks ago. And the same day she's posting TikToks, making fun of me, bashing on me, like saying, oh, we were together for 0.2 seconds. I didn't mean it. Yeah. I said I wanted to be his wife, but I didn't mean it. Like downplaying. And that crushed me. That broke me in half because that six months where I was chasing her and where I, I

I let her beat my spirit into a pulp. What do you mean when you let her beat your spirit? I kind of allowed myself to be conditioned that

being mistreated was my fault. Someone lashing out was just because I triggered it. If I was just better for myself, if I changed myself, if I communicated better, that it would be okay. Now and only recently, I've realized I'm not responsible for how someone else handles their pain for either their inability to heal or forgive or all these things. And I was keeping it on myself. You might be the cause.

regardless what what i did i'm not responsible for how they're treating me and i was letting it be okay sure and and what hurt me after the show is hearing how she was downplaying what happened i mean it's uh it broke my heart and i i mean i was threatening to to release text messages of her sounding crazy or whatever and i was like i was so hurt and i was trying so hard to

explain what happened like how like how could you be downplaying when we had this insanely intense six months of really trying how could you laugh how could you joke about it you're saying that you love me that you love my daughter yet you're okay letting the world have this version of me when you know that I changed already like how could you do that it broke me in half

And is it kind of like a hurt people, hurt people you, you kind of were trying to get back? Yeah, but I, I didn't, I never, I never backlashed on her. I never said anything bad about her. I did threaten to release text messages. The only thing that I shared was a message of her saying, Hey, I love you. I need you. I see that you've changed. It was her explaining that I had changed. And that was my only goal. I,

I've never walked around with people just hating me. And now all of a sudden there's millions of people that are watching me, hating me based on an edit they saw. Yeah, I cheated. I fucked up.

But they don't know what happened after. And, you know, she has this big influence. And I'm baffled how she can simultaneously be telling me that she loves me and my daughter and sits on her hands and makes jokes. It kills me. Do you feel like him saying you beat his spirit to a pulp is a true statement? Or do you disagree? I don't know how I want to, like, approach that. Maybe say it, like, truthfully.

What actually happened? I mean, you pursued me for months and I wasn't a lot like I wasn't letting you back in. I wasn't allowing it. Finally, I came back.

You had flown out to my family. You've met up with all my friends while I was gone for a month and basically explained your side of the story, how much you regretted it, how much you loved me and wanted to marry me. You went and bought a ring, X, Y, Z. So I basically came home and you had already gotten everyone on your side. You had done what you could to try to get me to forgive you. And so you kind of broke me down in a way where I was like, shit, like I need to give this guy a chance. He's fighting for me so hard.

I don't know. I just felt like I wasn't ready to give up on it. And so then we got back together fully for those like couple months during the holidays. I did feel like he was showing an effort and he like did a 180. And I've, I said that I released that in the article that wasn't, we couldn't really speak on it at first, but then I just snapped. I couldn't do it. I knew I was never going to let go. And I knew I wasn't treating him fairly and it wasn't making me feel good about myself.

Did I beat his spirit to a pulp? I don't know, but I was not in a good place. And so that's why we broke up. The message, the message, I'm sorry, the mess, the one message that I did share, um,

It was her explaining how poorly she treated. Like she's saying she didn't beat my spirit into a pulp, but oh my God, I think what I was missing in all of my past relationships, my whole life, I never really was vulnerable with who I was with.

And I think that played a big part in me cheating, being a cheater and constantly stepping out. And when we'd break up, me going and finding another girl to kind of fill that void, I was never completely vulnerable. And during those six months after the show, I wish I could look back on it and regret it because of how painful it is. But I have never been so sure and...

No, so sure about what? So sure about what I was doing, I guess. And that is fighting for your relationship. And that was fighting for her and making sure that she only felt love and understanding and that I was there no matter what. And when she's saying she didn't beat me to pole, I mean, she was a bully. But I suppose that's just a matter of opinion and perspective. I mean, both two things can be true at the same time. And like, I can imagine from your perspective, you seem earnest about like really wanting to like

have some growth and fight for this relationship. And then you got Ashley here kind of, you know, still struggling with the past. These experiences are traumatic. These experience can really change you as a person, but usually that growth happens over time. And do you feel like maybe some of your truth is more coming from that place of finally waking up and fighting something and it just maybe being a little too late for Ashley and being up

upset at her that she wasn't acknowledging your growth? Yeah, I'm not upset at her for not acknowledging my growth because she eventually did. What I'm upset about now is very different than what I was before. It was really hard when she broke up with me at the end, the end of January or so. And it sucked. I knew that I had done everything I could. I knew that I had absolutely became the best version of myself for her.

I wish I did it sooner, but I didn't. And no, I wasn't mad at her for ending it because she was miserable. I was miserable fighting and being, you know, backlash to it. It was hard. I would have kept going forever, but she ended it and it was okay. And after she ended it, when she was, you know, remorseful for ending it. And when she was reaching out to try and fix it, I was trying to

get myself in the headspace that I am now where I just need to walk away. We're broken. It's impossible. I've given you everything. You're not going to forgive me. It's okay. And now I'm feeling differently because of

how she's portraying things online it it kills what exactly do you think i'm doing like you you're acting like i'm sitting here bashing you i'm making like funny tiktoks that half of them don't even have to do with you and you had the audacity to release an entire i don't know what 10 minute video talking about how much you love natalie and how perfect she was after you spent the last six months

trying to convince me to marry you. Yeah, my video that she's referring to was the whole goal of it was just to try and tell people to stop hating. This Natalie girl that I dated and I fell for was getting a lot of hate. And I found myself in this love triangle eventually where...

I loved Ashley. I loved Natalie. And the whole purpose of that video was just to try and get people to stop hating on Natalie. I wasn't bashing on Ashley whatsoever. And that was while y'all were... That was like in the six months that y'all were together. No, no, no. This was a week ago. But that's the problem. That's what I was saying. I was focused so hard on trying to

explain myself and trying to get people to understand. And Hey, here's the truth. Here's the truth. What actually happened because she's downplaying. Why were you trying so hard to protect Natalie and not protect Ashley? Ashley wasn't, I didn't need protecting. She has a cult following of love. It's, you know, I don't,

She didn't need protecting, I didn't think. And the videos that I'm talking about of her bashing on me, no, she hasn't bashed on me per se, but anyone watching any of those videos, it is so clear that

she's downplaying who I am. She is passive aggressive. It's it, it always triggering for you. What, whatever. I mean, how I feel about it is, is whatever it's, it's the fact that like I had this idea of she's always expressed to me how loyal she is and how, how much she has my back. And even in those six months and how she's acting is not, not loyal. It kills me because she's saying that she loves me and my daughter, but it's, and I've, I've,

Do you feel like they were just funny memes that you were following a trend and it's not this deep? It was all just like for fun. It was, I've never, I feel as though you should, and I don't even want to say it like this. Like you should feel lucky how much I love your daughter and respect and have empathy for the mother of your daughter that I don't release the things you've done and said to me. Like, I don't want to make it messy. I don't want to make things worse for you. Yeah.

What I've been posting is like funny, just like joking, very lighthearted. It was never meant to attack you. And then it became a point where you decided to try and blackmail me into making a statement that you're a good father or you were going to release texts. And then you did. So I don't know how I would have loved to have like gotten to a point where we broke up and I could sit here and justify why I would have taken you back to begin with and been like, he's changed. He's a good man.

And we just couldn't make it work, like whatever. But then you started doing all this shit on social media and spiraling and saying dumb stuff. What kind of dumb stuff do you think I said about you? You screamed at me on TikTok live. You were going live, just like rambling about...

how i'm just like awful and the whole thing about natalie like how what do you want me to do when you've sat here for months trying to convince me that you fucked up so bad natalie meant nothing you are in love with me you want to marry me and then turn around and say how much you love her and how perfect she is and that she's the biggest regret from the show i uh so i i didn't start uh

trying to defend the truth and try and explain the truth until after I was sent these videos that she was posting. Like, well, I have one boyfriend when you can have two. Yeah, I got back with my ex for 0.2 seconds, but it didn't really matter. That's funny, though. That's a joke. We're broken up. You're fully sleeping with other people, so what does that matter? It doesn't matter now. It doesn't matter now. That's my point. But it didn't matter when I posted it either. Listen, we all, listen, we are entitled to our feelings, but like,

It bothered you. Why was it so triggering for you? And why did you feel like Ashley owed you anything in that moment? I don't think we owe anything to anyone. I was asking her if she would please just say how she really felt. I just didn't understand how she was...

downplaying what we had while telling me, no, I do love you and I want the best for you. And I don't, and I don't want you to get this hate when in my head, like you posting these yes, funny tech talks, but being passive aggressive towards me saying, you know, Hey, I'm nothing yet. He's just insane, blah, blah, blah. Like getting on a live with Natalie and doing these things. And on my live with Natalie, I literally said he did everything he could.

I couldn't move on, period. You act like I'm sitting here attacking you and not once have I sat here and attacked you. Yeah. Listen, that's why I started off saying there was a lot of noise and I was focused on trying to explain it. And now I know it doesn't matter and it's okay. Do you have regrets for anything you've done in the past two weeks? It's obviously a very emotional experience for all of you. I imagine when it was going to air, you were like,

did we need to do this you know like fuck you know so like you were emotional this was a triggering experience you got triggered and acted out towards Ashley my acting out towards Ashley the only time that I did that was really raising my voice on on the phone call on the live did you call her names outside of Ashley what do you mean

She said that there were things that she wasn't comfortable saying that you said to her for the sake of your daughter and the mother. Before the show was released. I mean, we've had, I mean, I've never deleted messages on my phone. I have

probably 900 000 i don't want to play that game i'm just saying i'm i'm listen i didn't come here to attack i didn't come here to point fingers i came here because you guys requested us to come in yeah i appreciate it i want to know but i and that's what i'm saying i want to know just as a person i regret yelling i regret yelling that that that is it i don't regret uh defending natalie i don't regret defending ashton when people are saying that hey are you saying that it's her fault no she didn't cheat on herself are you fucking

dumb like i cheated on her like it's it's clear i'm the one that fucked up regardless of my reasoning my circumstances regardless that we were on an insane tv show i'm the one that fucked up that that's that and yeah yeah uh i think it's time for a little break yeah

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wrap up in a bow or clarify is it open to everyone we have a lot more questions so don't you worry I wanted to make sure after everything was said Lino I want to throw it back to you there has been some chatter online kind of

accusing you of if there would have been a woman that you had a connection with, maybe you would have cheated. Do you agree with that? No, I disagree with that. I kind of laugh it off. I didn't address it on social media until pretty recently because I'm allowing a small minority to speak because I didn't feel like I needed to speak out about it. But within the first two or three days,

All of the single girls knew that I was locked in with Alexa and knew what my end goal was. A lot that you didn't see is all of the connections I did form and how much support I had from the single girls. I know they're painted out to be villains. They are the Temperatrices, and our side of the villa doesn't have the best connotation on it, but...

They were nothing but great with me. The single girls were nothing but great with me. It shows you me practicing my proposal speech with Nikki, but I had read it to almost every single girl that was left there. So about eight different girls. They all cried. They all were making assertions that they wish they had a boyfriend like me. And if they were on the show, this is how they'd want them to be.

treat them and act. And I did have someone pursuing me very early on and she cried because I didn't take her on a date. And you can say her, her name. Um, it was Mia in this case. And, um,

I was looking just for friendships and how to work on myself, but someone getting visibly upset at me because I didn't take them on a date within the first few days of being on the island. I felt that was a little bit too much for me, too emotional. And I'm the type of person that doesn't want to hurt people's feelings. So I'm not going to drag you along. I'm not here for anything physical or really even emotional because like Nick said earlier, we're there for a couple of weeks. I'm not going to form that deep emotional connection. That's just not who I am. And yeah,

The whole scenes with Alex, she knew very early on that there was no boundaries, but I wasn't going to cross any. And she was someone who we had a very playful, fun and flirty relationship because we knew that we would never cross that boundary. And because she respected Alexis and I relationship multiple times, she had stated this as much as it seemed that I was pursuing her in a few scenes. They are completely out of context and they,

The kissing scene where I said, I'll take this shot if you give me a kiss. Everyone knew that I was not drinking and there was nothing you could do to make me take that shot. And if anything, there's always a kiss on the cheek. So it was people need to learn how to have a little fun. I really think that humor was what allowed me to get through this whole thing.

because I wasn't having fun partying and letting the girls pursue me in that aspect. And sometimes it's isolating and lonely. So I just try to use humor to play it off. I do remember that. Like, I feel like,

a lot of the singles were talking about how they're always the ones being pursued, you know, in their day-to-day life. And then to hop into that show where they have to be the ones pursuing, it was almost like they were offended and then they just moved away. So it's funny to watch that with your story. Yeah. And, you know, I was pretty much off limits, but,

I built friendships with all of them. I still speak to them more than any of the other guys sitting on this couch or even Brianna at home. I have great relationships with all of them. They have nothing but good things to say about me and I have nothing good things to say about them. And they have also come out on their lives and talked about this whole situation. At first, when people were starting to say this narrative, they were like, why are you asking this? What are you talking about? And then as it started to build, they started to answer the question because from their eyes, it was never like that.

So they had said I had been nothing but respectful. I was never trying to pursue anyone physically or intimately. And I'd like to start off with Alexa and I didn't have any boundaries. It was my place to go in and explore in what any capacity that I wanted to. So it already invalidates that whole assertion. And yeah,

Yeah, I went on this island to prove a point to myself and to our relationship because I do get a lot of attention. You know, it was a little hit to my ego. And I hear some of these people saying this, but both Alex and I are not new to attention. It's something that I dealt with going on to the show. It was one of the main storylines that we had spoke about on the show and even getting into the recruiting process. And I wanted to prove to myself that the grass isn't greener. Within the first two or three days, I realized that and

I didn't want anything to do with them. I knew I bit off more than I could chew. So...

I had to play ball a little bit. It is Temptation Island, not Support Island. So it's not going to show the girls crying over my proposal speeches, saying how much they wish they had a relationship, Alexis and I, and how much I respected her. Had to show me, you know, having to fight. And I did fight. It was an incredibly difficult situation. I don't think anyone that doesn't have a strong bond that Alex and I would be able to get through it. Honestly. Was there any part of you that judged the other guys for folding so quickly?

- No, first off, I don't judge anyone. Their experiences are theirs. - I do. - Okay, let me rephrase this. - Loosen up a bit. - Someone going through a similar situation to me, I'm not gonna judge them until I have a bigger picture. And at that time, I didn't. I'm just being shown what we're seeing at the bonfires and being told their perspective. So of course I'm gonna support the guys I'm with. It would look like I am a traitor, even though I'm getting lumped in with them sometimes.

i had to be there for them and you know tyler and taylor's relationship i have no backstory i only have what they show me and what i'm seeing at the bonfires so when there was some

questionable phrases said against Tyler. I said, okay, well, if your relationship's not strong, then this is a time for you both to form new connections. And you both basically form new connections with who you thought the other one would. I know Taylor said that Kay struck Tyler's eye, and that's what happened. And then Tyler also made an assertion that she would most likely pursue Yemen, and that's exactly what happened too. So I didn't judge either of them, and I think both of their journeys were

exactly what they made them to be because going onto the island obviously was a little rocky and once you hear certain things or see certain things from both parties of course you're going to go in an opposite direction and do exactly what the temptation island is supposed to do is form connections was that you tyler who said about k the one in the checkered swimsuits insane

Yeah. I forgot what I said. I remember that was a wild thing to say. Picnic table. Picnic table bikini is insane. Yeah. So you, he told you which one he was interested in. Well, I mean, we're, we're going to be on national TV. It's like, no, there's going to be no secrets for the whole family. So you were leaning in. Yeah. But you know, and he watching his connection and how he talked about really showed me that, you know, I was not,

anywhere where I thought I was in my relationship. And he was a very strong motivator and just letting me realize that this shit ain't right. You know what I mean? And then it just took a little push. Alexa. Yeah. You have some thoughts. Yeah, I wanted to touch on the whole...

You know, I've heard a lot online of people saying like, Alexa, run. Like he would have cheated on you if the girls were actually interested in him. What is that based on? I don't know. People don't like to be. Yeah, I guess. But like what I want to say is Lino could have cheated on me in three and a half years, guys. Like and he could have cheated on me on the show.

He didn't, not because the girls weren't interested in him, because he wanted to pursue me and is loyal to me. I've preached to these girls. They knew from day one. I said, Lino is loyal and he will stay loyal. And I've made that very, very clear. And I

I finally met the single girls in LA. We had like a little premiere thing. All of us went and all of them came up to me and said, we want someone like Lino. The only reason we didn't go after him is because we respect you guys so much. So I kind of just wanted to really squash that narrative of so many people telling me like,

He might cheat on you if someone's interested because so many people have been interested in him, but they respect our relationship and see it enough. And he's never, I know this man, he's not going to give into temptation. And they did pursue me. I just said no to just about

You can see me taking a sip of champagne when Natalie has to lick something off my neck. That was literally like the last straw. Everyone else had done everything. And of course they just show me having that done. But yeah, the whole time I was very apprehensive. I even say apprehensive cheers. So one thing I'd love some clarification from you two is you,

You've talked about Lino's loyalty, your confidence in him, your confidence that he wouldn't cheat, but you've also almost proudly say that you went into this experience without boundaries. Which part is more true? 'Cause it's a bit of a contradiction. And what I mean by that is like, it's one thing to say, oh, we didn't have boundaries because we didn't communicate them and talk about them. But like, if that motherfucker cheats,

I'm done, you know, like where you have a personal boundary that maybe you didn't communicate. And so I'm wondering what if, you know, kissed a woman or went even further? Because I almost got the impression when we started this conversation, there was a part of you that was maybe even open to the possibility given his lack of experience in relationships prior to meeting you.

that you kind of referenced going on this experience is like, well, if he's going to do it, at least do it here where there's a bit of an understanding. So you get what I'm saying? I get, yeah, I totally get it. So we had no boundaries basically for,

leno you can do what you want because i want you to get the clarity but obviously selfishly i wanted that clarity to be me okay and i told taylor this i remember we were in the bathroom one time like look i told him no boundaries but if he does kiss somebody what am i supposed to do and because we couldn't communicate throughout the season it kind of did shift for me where i was like shoot if he does something like what

What do I do? But I didn't take it as like, okay, if he does something, I will say no, I will leave by myself. I kind of just wanted to hear where that

clarity came from if he were to take that hall pass on. So it wasn't like a for sure, if you cheat on me, I will not come back to you. I did give him a hall pass. Whether he used it or not, who knows where we'd be. But I wanted to see if that was going to lead back to me. Say he did use it and he figured out the grass is not greener. Then maybe that's something we would have had to work on. But that wasn't the way it went. And he just didn't use it.

So it kind of shifted throughout the season in my mind. How surprised were you? Were you anticipating a proposal? Were you... Did you even think it was on the radar? Definitely thought it was on the radar. But when... So what you guys didn't see, I think when you watched the finale or like the final episode, after our bonfire, it looks like we just kind of turned the corner and then there was the proposal. That is not what happened. So...

The final bonfire was done. Mark said goodbye to us. We get in the car. Our bags are there. The producer's with us. They're like, let's go back to the hotel. So I think all of this is over. So parts of me thought that I could potentially get engaged. But then once it was all over, we're in the car on the way to the hotel. I'm like, okay, I guess we just left together. And that's like, woohoo, happy ending. So then we were driving to the hotel for about 45 minutes. And then the producer was like, we forgot your final interview. Let's turn around. So we turn around.

We go to the final interview and that's when it happened. So I kind of, I thought it was over. I thought it was truly over. Cause we were like, had our, I was waiting for my phone back. I'm like, I need to call my mom. Like, so that, that make the nerves even more. Cause I had just kind of extending it the whole day. I knew,

I hadn't prepared anything to say at the final bonfire because all I had in my mind was okay I need her on my left side when we turn the corner I need to get down on my right knee so the camera can see me from this side I need to get the ring without her seeing keep it in my back pocket and I had all these things running through my mind that in the final bonfire all I did was want to misdirect and keep it a surprise so I had told her that one day I hope that I can propose and get married to you and we went

into the car, did our final little interview, circled back around. And at that time, all the nerves started to hit. That's when I started to really feel it. - I was ready to go to the hotel. I'm like, okay, we're done. Like take this mic off.

off of me. I'm ready to go. Wasn't it like four in the morning? It was four in the morning too. Yeah, four or five in the morning when you saw our proposal. And I had my hair and makeup done since like 3 p.m. when I said goodbye to you guys. So I was just sitting in a van for like eight hours by myself with my hair and makeup like, am I going to get engaged today? Am I not? What am I doing? And also the whole you calling my dad was a total surprise. I didn't find that out until...

it was all truly over and we were at the hotel. We got our phones back and my phone was blown up with my dad just messaging me like, you're about to like, you know, be engaged. Like this is everything that happened. I talked to Lino and like, it was so beautiful to get that message from my dad when I turned my phone on. So I had no idea that happened. So that was like, there was a lot of surprises still in there. Obviously we've talked about getting engaged. Is that something you insisted on happening? Yeah. I had a few stipulations. One speaking to her father and her stepfather. That one was off camera. Um,

um, ring specifications and just making it as special as possible. That's awesome. One thing I wanted to talk about, um, and I wanted to ask you ladies, um,

As a viewer, as a guy, I'm a little more critical of the men. And I definitely want to address some things with them. I do think sometimes the guys talk a lot about accountability, but maybe don't practice it as much as they speak it. We'll get back to that in a second. But one theme that I think was evident throughout, even early on, was Ashley and Taylor's willingness to talk some shit about your partners. Justified or not.

Me? Talk shit? Did they say something?

You know, it's like, I think as women and men, we need different things, right? As a guy, I just think, you know, it's like one of those, I think us men are, we are as fragile and as weak and as vulnerable as anyone, right? Whether we want to admit it or not. And we want a partner who supports us, who believes in us, especially when we're down bad. It's easy to have a partner who believes in us when we're crushing life. But I think when we're down bad, we really want someone to,

If anyone's gonna have our back, have our back. It's like, you know, people can talk shit about me all the time, but I just need to know that my partner has my back. And it seemed that would be, that was something early on that was quite evident in your guys' relationship that it didn't, you guys seemed to be quickly critical of,

the men Taylor I'm curious what were some of the bitch tendencies that you felt that Tyler was portraying that you Felt the need to speak about him in that way. Well, first off I want to say I'm not necessarily proud of that I think that was a reaction to what I had just seen at the bonfire and I honestly the whole

Experience on the show was such a learning lesson as far as like what maybe not to do and whatever it was my truth. But the bitch tendencies is just a man being in his masculine, being a provider, being stable enough to make me feel safe and secure. And that's something he wasn't providing before.

And where do you draw the line between finding that balance between, and that's, you know, listen, I love to have my wife think of me in the way that you want to find a partner, right? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But how do you find that balance of when he's not able to provide that, where he is down bad, he is lacking confidence, he is feeling weak, he is feeling, you know, whatever those feelings that,

It might give you the ick or whatever it is. How do you as a partner deal with that as opposed to being the one person who he feels alienated by rather than supported by?

How I dealt with it is not how I would deal with it now. Okay. Hindsight's 20-20, obviously. But I think, like I said, it was a reaction because I was literally seeing what I already said was going to happen happen in front of my eyes. It was like all bets are off. So something you guys don't know, which I mentioned in the To Doom article, is that

is that our very last dinner where we had our phones, I was choosing our airplane seats back and he looked at me across from the dinner table and said, I think it's best if we don't sit together on the way back.

So it seemed like he had already premeditated something and kind of left me out of that. The way back when? To fly back home from Temptation Island. Okay. Yeah. I would love to speak about that. Yeah. Yeah, no, I didn't just look across the table. It was an open conversation because we were looking at our flights to get back home. And we were having a good dinner. It was a good night. And she...

Like now I see it now she was essentially trying to trick me and just asking a trick question of like, oh, she brought up the fact that we were sitting together on the way back. And she asked me, she was like, do you think we should change that? So I didn't reach across the table or just speak that you asked me a direct question. And I was like, I don't know. That's a loaded question. I was like, I don't know if it's going to be good for us to have a few hours apart or sit together or not. And I didn't say that we should change our seats once. And it was the answer to your question.

and then i remember you called your friend and your friend said oh he just outed himself he just

told you its whole entire plan there when you're just asking me about a plane ticket for the way back. And when you say the way back, this is like after you're with Kay and you're... No, before they go on to Temptation Island. The day before we give up our phones and start filming. Okay. So... And we had a conversation and then she completely just ran with that. But there was no point where I was like, we need to change our flights. You know, I'm not an idiot. Before going on a show like this, I'm not going to go...

A, we're not leaving together. That would be ridiculous. This is an open conversation. And it's just... But you did say, I think it's best if we have some time. No, no, no. I didn't say that. I said, I don't know. It might be good for us to have a few hours apart or sit together or not sit together. I gave three equal opposite, you know, and just laid it out there. We never...

answered the question or finished that conversation because you kind of emotionally shut down how you talk about it. I feel like anybody would. I'm not about to see you for three and a half weeks. No, no, no. I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with that. This is how you do your process, which is fine. And I know that about you, but I can tell you internalize that. We never finished the conversation and we haven't talked about it till this day, but I appreciate you bringing that up and I'm glad you did. But that's how that conversation went. And there was no point where I would have ever looked at you and been like,

change our seats. That would have just been the most ridiculous, stupid thing ever. - Which is more true, 'cause at the final bonfire you talked about this as like the worst nightmare for you and you seemed authentically shocked that it ended the way it did. So were you more shocked or did you feel like he kinda went in prior to starting a filming that he was already kinda checked out? - Definitely prior to filming he was already checked out.

One thousand percent. I mean, I wasn't necessarily shocked in the ending. I just feel like it was a perfect storm. You know, what I said pushed him to do physical things with someone else and fall for someone else. And I just kind of had to watch that. I knew what I was getting myself into. It's not like I had never watched a show before.

I just was hoping that our bond and what we had been through, me helping him with his divorce, us like him walking away from the job and him helping with my emotional issues and trying to do all this stuff.

I felt like our bond should have been stronger than a sway by a girl who does OnlyFans. I can agree with that. I thought our bonds would have been stronger, too. And there's something that my mom said. It has to do with this. Right before going on, she pulled me aside. And she knows about our issues over the two years. And she was like, hey, honey.

"This is wild, I'm so glad you're doing this. "Do what you need to do." But she's like, "If there's a moment where stuff gets bad," she's like, "Don't shut down. "This is a once in a lifetime opportunity "and lean into it." She's like, "If there's a moment where there'd be cheating "or what's said or what not," she's like, "Don't shut down, don't just cry "for the rest of the show." - What did she mean by that, as far as you interpreted it?

To me, it was if there is a clear moment that you know in your heart that the relationship is over, move. Move on and do what you need to do. Use the experience to the fullest. And it kind of goes what she's talking about. And for me, that moment was the disrespect, whether you meant disrespect or whatever, whether it's true or not true. I felt responsible to move on. And I just remember my mom saying that. And yeah.

And I did. And honestly, just haven't looked back. What was the bitch tendencies, the disrespect that you're talking about? Or was it the first? First, it was her being a little bit petty about like the toilet seat and pantry stuff and groceries because I knew our relationship. And I'm just like, I didn't understand at that first bonfire. I'm like, why in her personal journey does she need to talk about

you know, my shortcomings with single guys that are hitting on her. I was like, of course, when she's sitting down with single men that are interested, they're going to feed into that. And she's a very intelligent woman. And she knows that if she gives them an inch, they'll take it a mile. And so at that first bonfire, I had a feeling. I was like, oh, he's giving them an inch, you know. And the second bonfire was the point

where I actually talked to the producers and wanted to leave and go to the other villa and break up with her. But at the second bonfire, when she made the comment about the bitch tendencies, I spoke to the producers and wanted to break up with her in that moment. And I knew in my heart, I was like, oh, there's no way we're coming back from that statement. And it wasn't just what you said. It's not like, oh, that hurt me so bad. It was just who was saying it.

And I was like, there's no way. But they were like, we still got three more weeks of this process. Just figure it out. Just wait till the final bonfire. And they just edged me to lean into the experience instead of just walking over to the other villa and being like, sorry, sorry. And that's where I think a lot of the viewers have some misinterpretation on. And they don't see me talk to the guys about that, about like, oh, our relationship is over. I said that.

like right then and that night and several times.

And so we're just fine. And that's my choice. But that was my breaking point in our relationship. And then from there on, I didn't care what she said or did at the bonfires. You know, it was still emotionally taxing to watch the other bonfires, but it was just like digging the knife in. And that's why at the final bonfire too, I was like, you don't need to convince me that I'm not your man. You don't need to put me down. You don't need to talk about all my mistakes. You don't need to, you know, like I understand you don't really respect

Respect me. I don't meet your requirements. I have that understanding. Like, it's just over. So the second bonfire was that moment. This is Radhid of Lukia from A Really Good Cry. Did you know that approximately one in three Americans have insulin resistance and consume over 300% more than their daily recommended intake of sugar? I'm here to tell you that you can stop sugar cravings before they even start with Apothecary's Sugar Kit.

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Ashley, you're in your thoughts over there. I sure am. Kind of same question. Obviously, early in the season, I forget his name, big, tall, big looking. Logan. Logan. Oh, yeah.

But you had some very critical things to say of Grant, which I think to any man, you know, you're standing next to a guy it's early on. Maybe it's true. You know, maybe it's not true or not. Again, your partner is supposed to have your back. You guys are about to embark on the biggest test of your relationship to date.

Why say what you said at the time? Yeah. So the whole conversation with calling him arrogant was, which I said what I said, but they cut it because I, at first I said, Grant, I love you, but you are a little arrogant sometimes. So I still said it. Yeah. I'll be honest.

I would have not heard the, I love you. I just would have heard the air again. It's more you standing next to a guy who clearly was attracted to you. And he was that guy, you know, Logan, was it? He was just swinging his dick around. Yeah.

- So yeah, the I love you would have felt flat. - Yeah, I'm very sarcastic, I have very dry humor. I said it, I kind of meant it, but he is, but that's something I am obviously into if I chose Grant and Logan. - Yeah, you don't know me then, sorry.

I'm confident, absolutely, but I don't look at myself above anyone else. That's why after hearing that, damn, I mean, I had already been dealing with the belittling and the emasculating and even what we met. You know, I mean, there's like any, I mean, listen, my whole life,

I have gotten the, my version was I'm confident and some of my versions is I'm cocky. You know, I think every confident person who walks this planet has been told that they're cocky, right? And it's a matter of perception, right? You don't want to hear your girlfriend saying that on TV before you do anything. I don't think it was a good move.

move immediately. But even before that, before we started filming that, like when we would meet the other guys, she would say little sly comments. Like it was just becoming more and more clear that, yeah, Ashley has been loyal in

in some aspects, but not loyal emotionally at all. Not while talking to other guys, not while talking to other girls, constantly bringing up the past. I mean, that's what ultimately broke me down. So what did you hear at the first bonfire? Because we interviewed Natalie. She said that you came back from the first bonfire and basically you said your relationship was over. That's why she felt it was okay for her to start pursuing you. And then she said when she watched it back, she was shocked at how nothing it was.

So what happened at that first bonfire that really sent you to that relationship? I'm not going to lie. I don't remember exactly what the first bonfire clip was at that time.

What I do know is what kind of set me on a different path was hearing her say that I'm never going to let go of this resentment. I don't want that guy. And to me, why the hell am I here? Why am I chasing you then if you're never going to let go of this resentment? Why have I been busting my ass? Why did I put myself here if you're never going to let go? But that was exactly why we were there. I know that's why we were there. Can I ask you a question? I want you to think about it before you answer. There's a theme I've noticed with

you is that when someone doubts you, your response is usually to prove them right, not prove them wrong. It's an interesting take. I don't know. You know, it's almost like, well, if you think I'm going to do it, fuck it. I'm going to do it as opposed to think what you want of me, but I am who I am. I'm going to, I'm going to show you who I am. You have used

whether it's Ashley doubting you or other people doubting you, as an excuse to justify bad behavior? - I definitely didn't think that way. It was more of the straw breaking the camel's back. - Well, I know you didn't think it that way, 'cause you would've done it differently. But I'm just wondering, I'm saying this to you now, it comes across that way, and do you think there's some truth to that?

Tyler is itching to say something. I am. What do you got? Just from watching you go through the experience. Like, I remember the first bonfire. I remember, and it's interesting to see how you operate when you get very emotional. I feel like you like to make decisions when you're emotional. And, you know, we talked about journaling a lot and, like, how you've never really, like, sat down and just gone through the emotions and then made the decision. So I feel like after the first bonfire, emotionally fueled,

came back, felt validated, had that conversation with Natalie. And then the next day he had a moment to calm down and then slip back into, you know, so it was just a lot of kind of back and forth, you know, but I think it's something deeper, you know what I mean? Cause you love, you love them both. I don't know if you've said you love them both, but like it just takes you some time and I feel like you make decisions a little bit, bit quick. And I felt that happened with, with Natalie. Yeah. I mean, I definitely didn't have an itch to prove her right by any means. It was,

It was more, I mean. I very much doubt that you consciously was not going to do it. But just the way both your actions and then your justifications for your actions very much comes across that way. It seems as if like you hear her say, I'm never going to get rid of this resentment. That it's like, well, if I can show her that I can make it through three weeks.

You know, there's nothing else for her to hold on to because I'm proving her wrong. I think there was a piece going into the show where, I mean, we both knew that we weren't getting exactly what we needed anyways, right? And I think hearing her say, I'm never going to let go of that resentment, it was kind of...

fueling like damn even if i do make it through this let's let's say i don't open up to any of these girls we get to the end and she miraculously actually lets go and forgives me finally these other characteristics that i'm experiencing from her are they enough for me and that's that was my biggest battle and yeah i know i say that you didn't have sex for three and a half weeks

But anyways, that was my biggest battle was all these other things. And then this, I say that was the biggest reason, but it's because it's what started me questioning my relationship with Ashley. Well, you questioned it. I'd like to interject too, because after every bonfire and before, the guys have a lot of time to speak to each other about what we saw and how we all view those situations. And within the first one or two bonfires,

between Breon, Tyler, Grant, and myself, we were pretty much convinced that what Tyler was seeing, what Grant was seeing, and how they were speaking about each other's relationships, that they

They were pretty much checked out and ready to lean into the experience. So you saw me bawling my eyes out to Alexa and you saw I was checked out. No, no, no. It's how Grant was speaking about your relationship. Okay. No, not at all. Okay. Sorry, that was aggressive. He took the arrogant comment and the, why did God give me this piece of shit comment? But he cheated on me before that God gave me a piece of shit. No, I'm not saying Grant is right at all. I'm just saying, I don't think you guys should be in that relationship. Right.

And that's the assertions both of them made within the first one or two bonfires. And that's the thing. For Alexa and I, we went on and...

We didn't want to disrespect each other or speak poorly about each other because that is where your mind starts to go when you hear these things and you can't communicate with the person. And I'm not saying their actions are right. Their actions are right. It's how they were speaking about each other. They were pretty much ready to move on. And I think they both should allow themselves to do that on both sides of the house. Ashley, do you have any thoughts or feelings about what I asked Brandt?

my perception of how he handles people not believing in him. I mean, yeah, I would say that's pretty accurate. I think it was really disappointing when I watched the show because I obviously didn't see what he saw at his first bonfire. So I'm being told by him and the other guys, basically their recollection of the first bonfire. So I'm like sitting here for the last nine months being like, holy shit, I just got caught up just talking mad shit about him.

He originally told me that my first clip was me talking to one of the guys. So I, this whole time thought like, damn, like I'm going to look so bad. I was just like shitting on him to one of the guys. And then I watched the show back and what you said, Natalie said, and see that it really was like nothing to me. The first one, it was just like me being emotional, venting to Alexa. And that's what really like set it off was very disappointing. It wasn't even just that though. You got to remember that. Yes, I saw this clip, but I also had like,

a whole house full of producers and interviews where it was pretty much clear, Grant, that girl doesn't even like you. Like, she is...

over there just dogging on you. And this is, you know, voices I'm hearing from other people, from producers and the guys that I just met. They're like, yeah, I mean, when we met her, I mean, she was still, you know, she wasn't really talking nice about you. Right. So I have all of this. And then I had the clip of her saying, I'm never going to let go of this resentment, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I was beginning to really question. I was like, damn, do I even want this? Is this do I do I want this for myself? I don't think so. Shit. And then I was going back and forth and back and forth. I mean, I lost my mind.

I can easily see both sides, right? But my question for you is when you're hearing all these, whether it's producers, whether it's the temptresses, none of these people know you and know Ashley like you guys knew each other. And so my question to you, did it ever occur to you

maybe acknowledge why she had so much resentment. Of course, I knew why. Sure. And so I guess my question, you know, in terms of believing your darkest fears or believing, and again, as a man, I understand what it feels like to have your partner belittle you, especially in public, like it sucks. But at the same time, again, for you, at least there's a lot of like, it's very easy to understand

why Ashley might feel and have so much anger and resentment towards you, but it never really seemed to click. Like I think I made it. It didn't. And that's what I was saying. You asked me like, when did I like learn my lesson if I ever did? And that whole experience, I never,

looked in enough where I was like, okay, like, am I treating her the absolute best I could? Right. Like, and yeah, we, we would break up, get back together, break up, get back together. But when we would get back together, I never actually changed anything inside of me. Right. Like I never actually did the deep work after the show. That's what I'm saying. I I'm,

beyond proud of myself for how I acted, how I changed, how I worked on myself. Are you proud of how you're acting the last several weeks? I'm not proud of letting all of the opinions and whatever you were doing get to me. I shouldn't have let it steal my peace and it didn't need to. So no, I'm not proud of that. I'm happy I finally like...

and realizing that it doesn't matter what everyone else is thinking and even on the show is what i was letting happen what are the producers thinking what are the guys thinking what you know in this interview what what is it gonna look like i mean am i going crazy like really trying to chase this girl or am i meant for someone else i don't know i joked when we were talking about the show that you and breon kind of made it seem like you guys were a victim of your dicks

- That's crazy. - It was just like-- - You guys didn't see a lot though. - Okay, well that's why I fill in the gaps. 'Cause I kind of was just like, you know, man, I just like, oh, what am I, my dick wants to have sex, you know? - Yeah, so for the past year, I was totally convinced that the first three episodes would be me just crying, like not knowing what the hell to do. And those were all my interviews. - Crying about what? - It was a joke, oh, Grant's crying again. - Sure.

I was so miserable, miserably confused, really.

Really, it's what I was dealing with. No, I don't blame my dick for me fucking Natalie. Obviously. And I don't feel like I'm a victim. You see how it came across. Well, yeah, because the edit was obviously to instill those emotions in people. Okay. I don't feel like I'm a victim of Ashley. I continuously put myself back in the situation with Ashley as she did with me. Sure. We did that back and forth. I did that to myself. I don't blame her for...

- For you. - Me feeling a type of way, you know what I mean? It was my own fault for reacting. - Okay. Ashley.

I will get to you. You know, listen, the man has his flaws. He's acknowledged some of them, but you kept going back, you know, and you seem as an intelligent, smart, self-aware woman. But like, you know, we all have to like take some personal accountability for at some point. And I say this a lot to the people who ask my advice or call in, like there's always a point

relationship, situationship, whatever, where it's just like, now it's just kind of on you, you know? Now it's just like, even if the other person, whatever they do, you know who you're dating, right? And you knew who you were dating. Have you learned your lesson about, you know, these second, third, and fourth chances? Because

you know, kind of the same thing I would say to Grant, meaning like at some point I understand the anger, I understand the frustration, but it's like, what's the point of getting back together only to just make this man feel smaller or less than and kind of kick him even if he does deserve it. That's why we eventually ultimately broke up. Like he very, very,

Much pursued me for months and I was just not interested in it And I but I was like still letting it happen, which that's on me Like i'm fully aware and then we got back together and I just was never gonna get past it He did everything he could and that's what i'm saying. I wanted to When this all came out and when we were allowed to talk about it all I wanted to be like, you know what he put in the I wanted to be able to justify why I would have taken him back Then why would you start by posting danny acting like you're in a relationship knowing that let I mean

And two days prior, you were texting me saying, I love you and I miss you. And what are we going to do? It was literally your birthday. And I texted you, hope this year brings you great things. Love you. If you were invested in it and you were letting me pursue you, yes, you were absolutely breaking me down. And yes, I was taking it because I knew that this is what I wanted. And I was trying to prove that to you. And

I didn't back off at all. I never went back to what I was doing. When you broke up with me, yeah, I lost it again. But like, why? That's what I'm saying is like, I would have loved to have justified taking you back and being like, yeah, this man changed. And I felt that in the relationship, but I felt as though I still couldn't let it go. Should have been left at that period. You broke up with me and then the day after begged for me back. Right. And we do that. That's what we do. And then you did it probably the next week, but we're in the clear now. We're done.

I'd say so. Yeah.

But what you've done since we broke up till now proves to me that you have still not changed. What do you mean? I'm not dating anyone. I'm not cheating on anyone. You're calling me, bitching me out while other girls are in your bed. You're like losing your shit on me. I just can't. I think maybe she's talking about what seems to be a more reactive. She's talking about what I'm feeling in my own self. I haven't attacked her at all. Are you serious? Please give me one example real quick. How have I attacked you? Pull up any of the recorded TikToks of you. That's.

I did see that TikTok where you called and she was yelling. I've seen it. I've heard it. Me raising my voice was not valid, but the words I was saying, absolutely. You did not call the mother of my child for 45 minutes crying, worried about me. Why was that a bad thing to do? No, that wasn't a bad thing to do. I appreciate that. Do you want to know why I hung up the call?

It was because she was texting me. She was watching the live. That's not what she, what? She was watching the live. I hung up the phone on you because I watched her text messages come through. This is before that. Right. This is before that. I reached out. I said, hey, keep an eye on Grant. I'm really worried about him and your mental health because you do come to me and say things and I'm worried about your mental health.

Yeah. Okay. I don't want you to do something and that's on me. So I've reached out, I texted her and she called me and we talked for 45 minutes that we're worried about you, that we need you to get off social media for your daughter's sake. Oh yeah. Um, the, the, the fact that she's posting and acting like I was nothing and she got back with me for 0.2 seconds and all these other things downplaying this intense six months we had is, is what, um,

made me say what I said. I was saying, Ashley, just be real. Stop pretending like we're nothing. Stop pretending like you're dating Danny. You guys never even dated. Why are you acting like we didn't have these six months of intense growth together and trying to make it work? Why are you acting like it didn't happen? You keep throwing around six months. I don't know what number you're trying to prove. When I saw you at the bar, Tilt,

Why is that so important to you? I only ask this because like... Because I believed her. I believed her. Believed her about what? I believed that her intentions were true. And I believed that like we actually had a connection that was real. I don't think anyone can deny you guys have a connection. I mean, like the opposite of love is not hate. And you guys...

There's a lot of feeling here. So like no one can deny the intensity, the anger, the hurt, the passion. Which is why it flustered me, which is why it made me react. I didn't do anything to you. I didn't come out and say anything to you.

really bad about you. I said, you tried and I couldn't forgive you. And that was the end of the story. She was just flaunting this Danny guy in front of me too. Who cares? I was hanging out with Danny. No, it was like the- But I mean, it does seem like, listen, and I get why you're mad. I just felt like she was fake. I just felt like it was all fake and like, wow, why did I ever introduce our relationship? Like she had been convinced to me that she's this loyal girl and this and that, but she's never talked to me about me. But we're not together. Do we agree? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Do we agree that-

that you wanted to get back with her after the show, after Danny, whatever. There was at some point, show's over, you pursued her. She was unsure, giving your history. Finally, she said yes.

And then like, she couldn't get over it as she, she stated. Right. So like what version of that is inaccurate to you? Because I'm hearing, well, listen, like literally you guys have had a toxic relationship. You both acknowledge your issues. There's a lot of pain from just our position. It just sounds like, man, it's just get, you guys were too far gone and whatever love was there, there was too much hurt on both sides for it to work out. Ashley came to that realization and,

she ended it. And while I understand you put in a lot of work, it was very, and like, I get it, right? Like you, again, like I said earlier, you did all this work, you, and it's like, you're, you were ready, but she doesn't, wasn't ready to forgive you. And then ultimately she chose to leave. Why does that make anything you did in those six months less than regardless of she starts fucking Danny afterwards or whatever she's doing? Like, what does it have to do with

whatever growth that you committed to, regardless of Ashley wants you back or not. - From the beginning, after I messed up initially, I had been just fighting for her respect back. And it felt like no matter what happened, I couldn't get it. After she broke up with me, February, whatever it was,

and receiving the message of her acknowledging my growth, acknowledging the man I became, acknowledging how much effort I put in, acknowledging that she broke me down and she was sorry about like that meant a lot to me, even though I was a little too scared to get back into it. Right. Because like you said, it's.

I mean, it seemed like it was too far gone at that point. So when I heard her downplaying what happened, it was important to me because damn, I had been fighting for your approval this whole time. And now you're down. What was that? What did you, what did you want from me?

Like, what did you want me to do on social media? I don't know. Not act like we weren't ever together. Like not, I don't know. I never acted like we weren't together. Anything but what you were doing, honestly. The last thing I expected was for you to act like nothing happened, was for you to act like the grant on the show was the same grant that was with you. So the whole article that Netflix released, where I like went back to probably three times now, where I say he did everything he could, but I couldn't move past it was not enough acknowledgement.

I've already said it and I'll say it again. I was wrong for expecting anything of you. I let the noise get to my head. The past two weeks have been hell for me. Now, I realize it. I don't expect anything from you. I don't need to prove myself. You know what we had. You know what I gave you. You know what you took from me, from my spirit. Okay. And that's it. Now we're here. We don't need to talk about it anymore. And coming from the guy who keeps fucking talking, right? But like, I don't, I'm done with it. I'm done with it.

Okay. And I don't need anything. I was just explaining your question was like, why was it important to me at the time? That's why it was so important to me. That's what made me lose my shit. I felt like Taylor, you wanted to say something. I mean, it's old news now, but I guess still relevant in my eyes. I'm not justifying anything we said or did not say as far as talking shit, but you're going onto a reality television show to figure out your relationship. Yeah.

A lot of the conversations that they cut and spliced for the bonfires were conversations that were 25, 30 minutes long that just weren't talking shit the whole time. They're doing stuff to get a reaction. How else can I explain to somebody? Yeah, we're just not really matching up. They're like, well, why aren't you guys matching up? Well, because of this. Okay, well, tell me more. You're there to get a different perspective and have conversations about your relationship. Yes, I didn't necessarily need to say bitch tendencies. That was after my bonfire and I was clearly very heated.

But for Ashley and I both, we were just kind of trying to be as vulnerable as we can be. Yes, we maybe didn't talk about it in the best way, but how else were we going to talk about the downfalls of the relationship? That is very difficult. And I had to go through that experience too.

so did he so did he and it was a very challenging experience to figure out how to talk about your baggage and being 100 respectful at the same time it's almost a trick and it's nasty and you know i thought about that you know when you said that on the uh bonfire clip too so

I think that's a valid point, but I think it can be done. And there's a couple of people that did do it and a couple of people that didn't. And that's just what it is. I guess to that point, there is a balance between just acknowledging your unhappiness with certain things and a decision to go into how much detail you want to go into. But at some point, whether you're being vulnerable or

or whether you're on TV, or whether you're talking with friends, there's just a point where your partner is going to decide whether you crossed a line or not. Yeah, absolutely. You left the island with Kay. What happened? Why aren't you still together today? Oh, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't really talked about this yet. Just because, again, I'm trying to be respectful, you know, for the other party involved.

But, you know, I knew as soon as the bonfire clip, my breaking point, essentially, when I moved on, just leaning into the experience, like it was such a fun experience with Kay. You know what I mean? And you're in this fantasy bubble. They feed you perfect dates. They feed you everything romantic. And I definitely leaned into that experience. And I feel like she leaned in that experience, too. But I had conversations with her, you

you know, after our second date about, you know, physical stuff about like, Hey, this is kind of how I operate and how I do things, you know? And, um, she was very respectful. And so we just kind of like just sunk into the experience, played around, went on dates, uh,

I kind of use that as a coping mechanism to forget about this relationship ending. And that's something I saw watching it. I just kind of checked out and was like, all right, we're going to focus on this. But then on our final date, as you know, the prize of the final date is being off camera. And she just kind of told me a little bit more about her career and what she does. And she withheld very important information. Which is?

She's just OnlyFans model. Okay, I did not know that. Yeah, and I didn't know any idea. Do you have certain feelings about that? Yeah, I'm very jealous in that sense. And that was a deal breaker right away. And that was difficult because what they don't show on the show is that night, the final date, it's that morning actually. She says, hey, by the way, I think you should know this.

says it to me we say goodbye the next time I see her is at the bonfire so I had a decision to make to be like hmm okay am I just going to flip the script and no one's gonna know what happened or anything and just be like nah Kay is not here I felt like that was a bad move I was like finish it out you know finish the experience people are gonna think what they're gonna think and I just was like

I just didn't want to do that on the show. We did speak with Natalie yesterday and she mentioned that when the show wrapped that you, you and Natalie and Kay kind of all hung out a little bit. Is that accurate? For about two days. Two days. Something like that. And what was the context, I guess, specifically for you and Kay? Because you're kind of suggesting that like once you kind of found out her truth, you were more like, okay, I don't want to like embarrass this person.

- No, no, no, it wasn't like I had, it's not like I'm judging your character and like, I can't be around you. You know what I mean? It's like, I'm not gonna have a relationship with you. And we both-- - So you guys just kind of hung out as friends? - Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was still like, you know, a little romantic. - Like is Kay gonna go on a live and be like, "We fucked." - No, no, sure. - Cuddling with Kay. - Yeah, cuddling's about all we did, but. - It's got a nice ring to it. - Yeah, Jesus. But no, those couple days after, you know, we had the same flight home. And so we were gonna be on the same plane ride together, ironically.

about our conversation. And so it just kind of fizzled out. And she also has her reasons, which she's publicly spoken to. Like she felt like I wasn't ready for anything. And, you know, I probably didn't meet a few of her requirements. So it wasn't one side. You and Kay pretty much, it never really happened. No, no, it didn't. Uh, no. Okay. I wasn't sure if you had any responses to that. Do you think you have a hard time being alone? Yeah.

You do. You're a relationship guy and that's okay. That is difficult because I don't, and maybe you can help me with this, understand this, because I get this a lot. Being married very young, I love being in a relationship. I love sharing a life and building a life with somebody. And I do adore that. And I've always felt like I've been able to deal with

character flaws and issues with someone and a lot of times it's been beneficial to have a partner to help me go through that as long as they're understanding and it's acceptable. So I feel like I'm definitely a relationship guy. I don't know how to answer your question directly of like, is it a hard time being alone? Like whenever I've been on a break, like we didn't speak to each other for a couple months,

or even after the show, you know, it's like, there's never a moment I'm sitting there like weeping and crying that, you know, I'm just alone and broken, you know, but. - Well, here, let me maybe help you answer that question. 'Cause I think just, I think all of us, like people, we don't like, we're just, we need connection, whether it's our partners, our family, our community, our friends, like we are not, we're not a species that's meant to be alone, right? I think also in adult life, again, like,

And back to what I asked Grant, and I think specifically with men, it's a thing where I think men love having girlfriends and a lot of men don't like being boyfriends. You know what I mean by that? Yeah. Because as a guy, like, listen, having a girlfriend, you know, it's like you got that emotional support, you got someone to go on a date night with, you got that regular sex, hopefully, you know, it's just like, it's just, you know, some movie night, you know, it's just,

someone to bounce ideas off that, that's all great. And that incoming benefit of having that partner is great. Then there's the being a boyfriend, which is this like, and, and part of just being a boyfriend or a girlfriend is the, whatever, you know, for me, like the, my favorite thing about being a husband and being a dad are like the sacrifices I have to make for my family. You know, it's like, I don't look at not being, I don't look at, I don't go out

whether it's the bar or wherever, not that I can't, I choose to be with my family. There might be isolated moments where it'd be like, that could have been fun and it would have been nice, but I like the opportunity to make sacrifices for my family. As an individual though, I mean, like yourself or like a lot of people, I had three serious relationships in my 20s, right? And then I'm

In most of my 30s, I was single because part of it is this like... Again, when you're younger, I was like, we don't know. It's like, again, you're 19. You're just like... Your baseline for why you get into a relationship is I feel something. And then we date. We have relationships end. We hurt each other. We have... And then for me, it was more like...

the difference between, you know, granted I wasn't crying because I was alone, but I hated the feeling. I hated not having someone. But the difference between like 23 year old me and 33 year old me was 23 year old me was like, I don't care. I just like, let's date, you know, like it's almost like kind of like good enough and not to disrespect anyone. But it was like, there were things I was willing to accept that ultimately I didn't like. 33 year old me was

was more like, you seem great and we can have a lot of fun together, but like this isn't for me. And I said no to a lot of good things in the pursuit of great things.

And so, and in that period, I had to like work on myself alone. Instead of having the girlfriend to bounce ideas on, I got a therapist, you know? Instead of, or talk to some of my guy friends and allowed myself to be vulnerable with men in a way that I wasn't normally comfortable being vulnerable with, you know? And so it's kind of getting used to being alone

No one likes alone. So like in my 30s, it was more like, yeah, I fucking hate this. But like, it's still a better place for me to be than saying yes to something I know won't work. Does that make sense? No, it does. And I like the part where you're talking about the sacrifices and loving those sacrifices because being married young for those years, like I absolutely adored it. So I feel like I do idolize

the marriage, the team. And I feel like that's something that I still stand behind right now. And it's hard for me to give up. And I do think that I am lacking a bit of what you're talking about, though, about

you know going outside of that because i feel like i have been very blessed in my relationships to you know and you know even our relationship like just emotional availability and i'm sure you could speak to that too like you know that's um something that's great so i don't know it's just hard to answer directly like i yeah i'm a relationship guy and would it benefit me being

Alone, I can't answer that. You know what I mean? And I feel like everyone's going to have their opinions and everyone already does. People have their opinions. You recently announced a new relationship? Yes, sir. How new is it? I started officially dating in September. Okay. When did the show end? End of May. Okay. And were you mostly single in that period of time? Yeah. And that was part of the reason we had to wait until September was because she

She is very understanding, you know, and I had a lot of shit with Taylor. I had to get her up to speed on like the ex-wife on the show, a lot of issues I had. And so I made sure in those first few months that I laid out my whole life and I was like, hey, this is this is me and this is it. You know what I mean? And this is not perfect, you know. And then, you know, she shared her story and then we just.

Started hanging out more and more and more and more and then it took us a couple months to really make an educated decision if we should like actually do this and become exclusive and lock it in and that's what we did and September

And then now we're just trying to navigate this whole fucking... Did she watch the show? She said she wasn't going to watch it, but four hours of it being out, she's all... Yeah, well, she went through certain clips and everything. And I have never seen someone strengthen someone to be able to watch that and do that and know that that's coming. And even how she supports me now through the backlash of all this...

you know, and still see all my flaws, you know, it's, it's, um, incredible, but getting kind of off track. Nashville's a small town. Have you seen this? Yeah. He paraded her around the gym two weeks after we got back. People what? Paraded her around our gym that we went to for two and a half years. I would love to talk about this. Yeah. When you say people who are paraded, paraded, showed her off.

But who are people? Around the gym. They went to the gym together. So a small community. I'm sorry I'm not keeping up. Tyler's current girlfriend. Okay. He actually, why I said earlier when he said he pointed out Kay, he pointed out Lauren to me while we were working out at the gym together. But I had already seen her and known about her.

He. He. I would love to talk about this. Yeah. Well, can I speak on this first? Oh, I didn't mean to interrupt. Yeah. But two weeks after we got back home, they were working out together and they started from that point forward working out every single day together. So I would have to see that. That was really awesome. Great.

Nice. Go ahead. Okay. That is, would be purely evil. That is literally what you did. You started working out together. So I'm saying if you're, if you're saying what you're saying is true, that I took another girl and I'm an evil person and decided that I needed to just use this girl to make you feel something personal. And I paraded her around the gym just to make you feel more like shit or whatever you think my motive might be.

you did work out with her at the gym. Yeah. So we, she, I've been going to the gym for two years. She has. And Lauren, my girlfriend has been going there for about three years. Okay. We've all seen each other. It's the gym we go to. She asked me to work out with her two weeks after the show.

She was there, saw us working out, and there was no possible way that we were working out every single day together. Hold on. I understand it's hurtful and what you saw. I acknowledge that. That was not comfortable to see, especially everything that we went through. Me working out with someone else, it's painful.

Seeing me with anybody else anywhere, whether we're dating or not dating, I understand that. That is so difficult. But you take it so personally and you think it's all about you. I am literally just working out with someone new at my gym. Who happens to be your girlfriend now. Yeah.

But at then we wasn't. But is it possible it wasn't about you? Yeah, I'm not saying it's about me. I'm saying we just went off of Temptation Island. If he did point her out while they were together. No, we talked about her. She pointed out. She was like, wow, she looks good. No, you mentioned that she was staring at us working out together. Oh, and then you pointed out how she looks good. Exactly. I said, oh, yeah, she's a girl. Hold on. It's one of those another organic conversations that I feel like it's being framed in a way that.

All right. No, let's talk about plays. There's a tissue over there. Oh. I did not know these were down here.

I'm sorry, please continue. No, no, but I understand that hurt you and you can talk about how that hurt you, but I was not actively trying to be malicious and tear you down. We were done after that second bonfire. I moved on. We live within a few miles of each other. I'm sorry that there's still pain casualties, but I am, I did not make a conscious decision to be evil towards you because if what you were saying was true, that I intentionally paraded her around just to get at you. I'm sorry, but like just humbly,

Just humble yourself a little bit. It's not about you. I was done with you. We moved on. But can you acknowledge how it can be hurtful? Oh, I said that several times. I've already said that. That is painful. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. But you still did it. Like you had no sensitivity. Why not just like find a new gym? Well, she said that she was going to a new gym. Yeah.

they pushed me out basically because every time the gym is my safe space, that's where I get my mental health, right? A lot of my friends work there. I've been going there for multiple years. So it was the fact that that was no longer my safe space. And now I got a surprise every time I walked in there. Oh, there they are together. Oh, there they are in the car together. Oh, they're leaving together. Oh, okay. So I think I'm just going to save myself from this and choose me and

go somewhere else to a gym that I literally hate. I would love to work out at that gym. So regardless of whether...

He deliberately tried to do it to make you feel bad. At a minimum, you thought you deserved a little bit more consideration and empathy for the fact that clearly he was moved on and maybe you weren't. Yeah, 100%. And I can agree with that. And we had that conversation about you go to the gym at this time because I literally was like, I totally understand. That sucks. You know what I mean? But this is my gym in the city I live in. And this is just the...

the dynamics of a breakup that real adults have to figure out. You've been through breakups, you've been through breakups, you gotta figure that stuff out, new gyms, new places, and that's what that was. But when you boil that down to a single comment that I paraded at someone around to be evil towards you, that is just what I'm trying to just unpack and dissect. It's not true. Do you wish you would have maybe handled it differently? Well, I think...

if I was acting out of my full maturity, I should have sat down and said, hey, I'm going to be training with a girl at the gym. Would you want to not be there at that time? But to me, that just sounds so...

So like so much to literally, and it's not like definitely work, but like it could have been a, no, it could have saved her that, that or just like you could have been like, so let me say this. I wish I would have done anything to spare her from that emotion of seeing that. Of course I would not, I don't wish anything evil upon you or you feel that way. So if there's anything that I could have done, I wish I would have done it. Ashley, what are you feeling? I'm just emotional. I understand. What, what are you feeling right now? She's all very overwhelming.

What do you feel like is hitting you the hardest here right now? It's just like sad watching this all play out. Like this was never what I wanted. And it just sucks seeing how much hate he gets. But it also sucks watching him like do it to himself. And I'm just sad. Can I ask you something? Really? How do you feel about what you've been posting?

Do you know what it's been doing to me? And it's a little bit rhetorical because I know you know, but I want to hear something real from you. How are you able to do this? Like, well, like you're not maybe not mentioning saying, oh, fuck Grant. But how do you feel about the way that you've been talking about me and your tone about me after what we had? I don't think what I'm doing compares to what you've been doing.

And I don't think what I'm doing is like a direct dig to make you look better or worse. I am who I am. I'm very sarcastic. I'm like joking with it. I'm just trying to like run with the narrative. It doesn't really mean anything. No. Do you think it's possible? I kind of see Ashley's point of view here a little better than I'm seeing yours. Doesn't mean I'm not trying to invalidate yours. And this whole experience for you guys, which is challenging because here we are, you're trying to deal with

real emotions right yeah like going on the bachelor right i got fucked up emotionally from that experience and then it was like hey you're gonna be on tv which is kind of exciting and like by the way like just my my pov like you all went on a tv show you all kind of want to be a little famous

That's cool, it's fine. There's a lot of people who wouldn't have done what you guys did and that's also fine. But for other people or anyone who wants to be more famous than the other person, it's like, come on. That being said, I get that you had an experience

Like I said, what I've really picked up on in this conversation is that six months of fighting for Ashley was very meaningful to you. And on a personal level, there was a lot of like, it meant a lot to you. But it meant maybe less to Ashley. So that is what has been...

killing me up until recently. It's because it made it seem like everything was in vain. Like it was for nothing. Well, maybe it was. Does she owe you? No, she doesn't owe me anything. But to sit here and say it was in vain, why did you post a video saying how much you love Natalie and that was your biggest regret was...

Losing her. So after the show, I heard rumors that Ashley was dating Danny after her and I broke up. I asked her about it and she said, no, no, don't worry. There's nothing going on. I love you. Right. And then I see her the same night at this premiere party we had. And she walked in, saw me.

held Danny's hand, walked right by me. I actually walked in with Logan and Danny. Oh, sorry. You walked in with two guys. I wasn't just holding one guy's hand. All throughout the next several days, it's, I love you. I'm sorry you're dealing with hate.

But what can I do if I say anything? I'm just going to look crazy. And this and that while simultaneously making fun of what we had. So it made it like, hey, no, there's nothing going on with Danny. Don't worry. But let me post Danny in every photo. Let me act like I'm dating him. So it was kind of like she's making sure that she has me here. But fuck you at the same time. Let me ask you a question. When you were hearing Tyler speak to Taylor about the gym, do you see his point of view? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

I feel like it's kind of the same. We're in the sense that here is Tyler saying to Taylor, you know, clearly there's feelings, right? Whether he meant to or not, Taylor perceived it as one thing. He's telling us that like, whether you perceive it that way, I didn't mean it that way. And I'm hearing from Ashley that she was trying to figure out how to enjoy this and

maybe painful, but like fun experience of you guys getting to go on TV and trying to, you know, post social, have some fun. But for you, it felt like a fucking dig. It felt like a- I think it's because everyone sends it to me. I'd like the amount of stuff I get sent and they're like-

That's not her fault. When I was the villain, my parents would like, hey, this is a new thing. You're a piece of shit. It's interesting because what we're talking about has like a two-week lifespan. The first, I mean, literally up until two days ago, actually, I finally let go and I released it. And I was like,

God, I feel so much lighter. Like I finally do not have this attachment where I need her respect, where I need her to give me acknowledgement, where I need her to admit that what we had was real. I was...

Oh my God, I was so hungry for it because it meant so much to me because I worked so hard for it. And the other day when I finally released it, oh my God, now I see what you're saying. It's totally the same thing. Tyler was taken to the gym, not just because he was with the new girl. It doesn't matter. Ashley's posting videos because she thinks it's funny and it's whatever. And it's good for her clout.

- Whether it be at my expense, who cares? She doesn't owe me anything and now I know that. - It probably wasn't even at your expense from her point of view. - I mean, I don't know if you've seen all of them, but it doesn't matter. - I had to deal with a little bit with that with Taylor too. Like she on Netflix posted about me having a small penis and-- - What? - Yeah.

No way. Yeah. And she talked. I didn't post anything. Oh, you confirmed it. I'm sorry. Of course. Yeah. Why not? No, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. And then there's her post about, you know, lost a man, upgraded, everything's better. And she messaging my ex-wife on social media. So I understand that what you're getting through. Yeah.

But, you know, it's the price you pay for the TV show and doing this. I recognize it now. Yeah, but I feel for you big time, you know, and that's been something that I'm actively trying to deal with and rise above and try not let it get to me. Because it is hard not to take it personal, but she's just trying to enjoy the TV show and post this and, you know, get likes and clicks and views. And that's fine. You know, that's...

No, not you. I'm talking about Taylor. I don't know about your situation. I was just expressing that's kind of what I feel you a little bit, but I don't to navigate that is very difficult. I had to really I had to let go of my need for her respect is what I had to do. From my point of view, I'm seeing it as someone who ended a relationship. She was no longer with you. She's trying to move on.

and cope with everything that a TV show that's number one on Netflix, a relationship that is constantly in the back of her mind, you and your mental health issues. Also just like leaning in and having fun on TikTok. She clearly made friends with Danny and Logan. They are like a safe place to her. And she's like made posting with them. I feel as if it's like,

just her moving on from you and less of a direct... It would be that if we weren't in communication. You know what I mean? Like, what you're saying, totally valid. If we never talked after we broke up. But it never ended. But I told you, when we broke up... I mean, the last time we talked was a week ago or whatever or so before the premiere and it was her assuring me there was nothing going on and not to worry and I love you, right? But then when I'm seeing all this, I'm like, damn, was it all fake? But that's what I'm saying is... I'm okay now. We broke up and I said, maybe this will air and I'll feel differently. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't feel differently after it airing, but also watching everything, like how you've reacted to everything was just disappointing. I don't care what you think. I'm sorry about me. Okay, but that's what I'm saying. You care about everything. I did. I totally did. I let it consume me. I regret that immensely. I wish that I didn't. I wish I didn't let it affect me the way it did. So is there a world in which you can sit here and look at Ashley and say like,

Post whatever you want. Right now, yes. Post whatever you want. I don't care. I'm okay. Absolutely. Right now, yes. Continue doing whatever you'd like to do. I support you. I love you. Are you going to call her or text her and say, why are you posting? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Not anymore. I have completely released it. It's never happening. We can't.

How do you feel about that? I would like to believe that your words and actions will align this time. I won't be reaching out to you. You don't have to worry about me or my daughter. You are good to be on your own and move on.

And to me, I lost respect for you seeing the videos that you're posting, not because you owed me, but because I had looked up to you in this way where, you know, you convinced me you're the most loyal person that would ever be in my life. You convinced me of that. And

when I saw how you were downplaying things after the show, it made me lose respect. It did. I lost respect for you, which I had never lost this entire time. No matter how bad you talk to me, no matter the belittling, no matter anything. I don't think you can say that after the show. I can feel it. It's how I feel. Oh, so you didn't lose respect for me on the show? A little bit, how you were talking about me, but it doesn't matter because of what happened after the show.

The only reason I'm okay now is because I know that I gave you everything I possibly could after the show. That is the only thing that makes all of this okay now, because I know who I am. I know what I gave you. I know what we had.

And regardless whether you want to acknowledge it or regardless if you want to shout it to the rooftops, it doesn't matter. I'm sorry? I did acknowledge it. It's just like not enough for you. It wasn't, but it's okay. Can I ask you a question? Why do you have such a hard time letting him go? That's the question. I don't want to take it. No. You're great.

I think I have like, I've let him go, but it just, I'm like watching everything back. I realized how empathetic I actually am. And I've never really like acknowledge that about myself. And I just hate seeing him hurt. And that's just kind of what it is at the end of the day. I mean, you guys care about each other. That's obvious. I hope that you allow yourselves to both acknowledge that we've all heard the term hurt people, hurt people, right?

I think everyone watching, people sitting, you know, there's just a lot of hurt. Despite the effort at growth, I think there's still a very, it's just triggering to be here. There's a ton of work for both of us to continue doing, I think. Do you think you guys can at least get to a place today where you could just acknowledge that,

The love you guys have for each other, hopefully still the respect and just let each other go in a place where it's just like, just accept, accept that you're not each other's person. Do you guys think you can get to a place where you can acknowledge that there's love and still say goodbye? I mean, that's where I am. Does it hurt you to see her upset? Of course. I, you know, like I said, the last two weeks have been a roller coaster for me. Um,

And a couple of days ago, I just had an internal conversation and moment where I had to release her. So I, I focused a lot over the past, you know, what almost two years now on what Ashley was thinking of me and how she was feeling. And, you know, those six months where we were working on it, it killed me seeing how much in pain she was. And that's why when she broke up with me and, you

Wanted me back. I stopped myself for the first time ever. I feel like I was trying to try a little harder to stop myself from going back into it because she was miserable. And yes, it was from, uh, it's stemmed from things that I did, but that's why I was saying before I realized that it is not my responsibility to

for her own journey on how she can heal or how she can forgive or how she could move on. And the fact of the matter is it was killing me by fighting for it. I finally got to the point where I was like, okay, I'm like, I'm kind of dying here. Like, are you going to, are you

Are you going to open up a little bit or no? Because I'm sitting there, you know, giving her 150% effort. And I felt the same things that you were describing. I feel that with my daughter. I was truly in a place where all those little sacrifices, they felt good. I love, I love to love at you.

And so now it's like, it's hard to respect you the same way because I watched you not only, and you can say what you want about the videos you've been making. To me, it is you sitting on your hands and laughing. That's how it feels to me. Do you think her TikTok videos are worse than yours?

what you did on the show? - There's no worse or anything. I think I fucked up, I think she has fucked up, I think we all fuck up. I'm not comparing. - But to sit here and say that and then like release text and talk about me the way you have. - I've never talked bad about you, I'm sorry.

I haven't. I've never said you're a bad person. I have said how incredible you were that it is not your fault that I did what I did. The only thing that I've said is how you were treating me and how it made me feel. That's it. I'm exhausted and I don't want to get into that. But to say you lost respect for me over some funny TikToks, you live with that then because I don't. I'm sorry. You released private texts. Kind of to Natalie's question, it's just when you're hurt,

you feel very justified in your feelings. When you hurt someone, you know, as it's human nature to just try to explain yourself, justify yourself, which again, in this particular situation, it's a lot of like, you did this and you did that.

it comes across as like... - If I'm being real, the reason why it felt like that I lost respect for was because of an expectation that I had, which wasn't fair because I think the second we start expecting things of people and they don't do what we're expecting, it's not their fault for us being sad about it. Which is what you're saying. - Do you think there's a nicer way of saying that without saying you lost respect for her? - Yes, you're right.

I didn't like watching you not speak up for the man that you knew I had become. It hurt me to know. It hurt me to hear how you were nonchalantly laughing about our relationship. The videos about 0.2 seconds. It wasn't 0.2 seconds. That was everything. I wanted to marry you. So it hurt me. But this is the point I've gotten at several times. You say this.

And then you post a video about how you fucked up and you miss Natalie and you were thinking about her the whole time we were together. So it's like, stop, just stop. Just drop it. Let it go. No, absolutely not. What she's referring to is me replying to a comment and saying that I can't have multiple feelings at the same time is...

because all of us have conflicting feelings at some other point in our lives. Right. And what I was saying was someone asked me, you know, do you do you miss Natalie? And yeah, I miss that piece of time that we had. And

yeah, I miss you too. Like it's of course, you know, I had both of you who I had love for. And yeah, to me now, yes, it sucks saying that, you know, I was thinking about her the whole time. No, I wasn't thinking about her the entire time. But yeah, when, when we would get at moments where I was like, damn, this girl is literally killing me. She's beating me into a pulp, which is how I was feeling about our relationship in those moments. Of course, I would think back to Natalie because then I would be like, damn, was my biggest fuck up like

cheating on Natalie with you because Natalie was nothing but sweet and caring and soft. And we didn't have any baggage. And I finally had moved on from you. So of course, you know, there was times where I would think back like, damn,

How bad did I fuck this up? Am I just, again, now forcing myself into this relationship as I was trying to figure out on the show? Have I still not learned my lesson? That is all valid. But then to double down and say, I knew with everything in my being that I wanted to marry you and you were my person, that does not make sense. So, sorry. I'm kind of referring to individual moments where I had these internal thoughts and they didn't last long. Obviously, I stayed...

in what I was doing. Like, when I look back on... But did you because immediately after we broke up, you were hitting up Natalie? What was that? Immediately after we broke up, you were hitting up Natalie. Maybe so, but it's like... So, like, you want me to vouch that you're this changed man. I can't do that. Okay, but the...

The way I changed was my ability to become vulnerable and to love you and to support you and to be caring and listen and all of those things I changed. And I wasn't cheating on you. I was being loyal. These were the things I changed. You worrying about something I did after we break up has nothing to do with you. So exactly about my videos. Correct, which is why I'm saying that you're okay to do that. I was wrong for being angry at you is what I'm saying. Do you think you...

You'll have some work to do. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think we all do until we're dead. That's fair. Ashley did refer to you at the final bonfire as a serial cheater. Is that a true statement? In my past relationships, I have cheated. Hypothetically speaking, if...

Your daughter grows up one day and comes to you and says, Daddy, my boyfriend cheated on me. What advice would you give her? I've been thinking about that a lot. My daughter is looking up to me to be an example. And after the show and after not only cheating on Ashley during the show, but

cheating on Natalie after the show with Ashley. That's where it clicked. That's what made me change. I mean, I was like, okay, you're about to be 29 years old. For the last 10 years of your life, you have been not completely vulnerable in every relationship that you've been in. And you have stepped out and tried to find love elsewhere because you're not giving what you're expecting. I had to go through all these kind of reality checks. And so when I think about my daughter, who is

Literally the perfect ball of love. Of course, I don't want her to meet someone like I was. No way. No way. So it's my responsibility now to make sure that I am setting a good example and she can... Hopefully, I find someone that...

I could start off right. I can ask the right questions early on. I could treat them with respect and love and kindness, what Ashley deserved from the beginning. And my daughter can watch that as she grows up. She's only six right now. Thank God. I wish I learned this before she was born, but it didn't happen that way. And I learned it now. So this is my journey. So from now on, I want to make sure that I'm staying true to what I've learned based on

all of these things right and when it comes time i i hope that my daughter and i have the relationship where she feel like she could talk to me i personally grew up in a family where

I couldn't really talk to my parents about personal things, relationship things. And it's not because I couldn't, but it's because the way the dynamic was, they were parents and not friends. 100%, parents, not friends. We don't do these things. So when I would go to friends' houses, I felt like I could talk more freely with other people's parents than my own.

And I don't want that with my daughter because of, I mean, multitude of reasons. But that is my plan of action on how to deal with what potentially could come. And it's more likely than not going to happen. And regardless whether you want to say it's karma or this or that, it's very likely that it's going to happen. And I just hope that I can explain to her how I used to be and how many people that I've hurt. And hopefully...

hopefully set a good example and we can talk it out you know the the advice i don't when i get to that point i hope that i've learned a lot more than i know now i i don't know but i just want to be a good example taylor who have any regrets for commenting on uh tyler's manhood uh

No, because he was the one that said, I'm stretched out. What's that mean? No, it was a Netflix intro. He's like, the guy is a personal trainer and he's like, I'm here to stretch your girls. And I was like, oh, she's already stretched. But because of the context, everyone took it as like that sort of stretch. You took it as like limber? Yeah. What did you do? Yeah, that's literally what I meant. But then obviously the context of everything and everyone took it another way because there's no way I would...

literally like and it really helps that leno commented it on the netflix article so that so that was the whole what did you comment um you were like i'm dead he he said i'm she's so stretched or something like that so like over a thousand people liked it that started the whole commentary of it yeah but no yeah that floored me i can't what was that no matter how he said it like a vagina stretch oh yeah my

My understanding, my perspective was that Tyler was the one who would be the stretcher in that scenario. Have you guys set a date? Yeah. Yes. October 2nd, 2026 in Italy. Are we all invited?

Oh, shut up. Shut up. We haven't started an invite list at all, guys. You guys, obviously, you're in love. There's not a lot of drama to unpack with you two, but we've obviously listened to a lot of hurt feelings on both sides, and you guys did get a front row seat with these people. Is there anything, Alexa and Lino, you'd like to share or add to the conversation? It's hard to watch. It's really hard to watch because...

Obviously, these people are human and they're all hurt in a different way. Everyone here has hurt from this relationship, these relationships that we see. It's really hard to watch. And I want to remind people like in their future relationships, practice selflessness, every action, every word, every thought you're thinking about the other person.

And normally when that is first, you won't do something to hurt them. You won't say something to hurt them. And I just maybe that's just advice that I don't know I could offer. But I love these girls and I was I was there for them through really hard times. And I support them and everything that they do. And I want them to be happy. And it's hard to see how much hurt is in these relationships. Yeah. And I'd like to double down on that because we're all human. At the end of the day, we all have relationships.

they weren't the right people for each other but they're getting all of this rain down upon them because they were willing to put themselves out there on tv and for breon and shantae as well i

I find it very sad that they have to deal with some of the things that they're getting when even Ashley has a hard time letting go of Grant after countless times. We've talked about it. And for Shantae to have to deal with that and allowing Breon to be back into her life, I feel for everyone. And...

It just upsets me. Yeah, it's hard for us to watch. Like we are very happy and we're thankful for this experience. I think we're all thankful in different ways because we all at least took something out of it. But it is hard to, it was hard to be happy sometimes because I'm hurting with these girls when they're hurting. It was, that was hard. It's a weird place to be. And I think for us, I was there for the guys. I have their perspective and I support them, but I just as much support them.

I don't think their actions are right. I don't think I'm not defending anyone's actions. We all have what happened and we all have our own perspective. Yeah. We can all agree. Everyone's got something to apologize for. Exactly. And I think that that's not the right person for you. Just go your separate ways. This was an experience for everyone. We have to deal with it. It's part of the show business. We have to talk about it, but I would ask the viewers to offer some grace because it's

Everyone has relationship struggles. Alexa and I seem great, but we dealt with a lot to get to this point. And like you said before, it's about choosing that person every day. And if that's too much work, then...

move on. Taylor, what's something you mentioned you're single? Yes. What's something you would like to work on or maybe you have worked on that you would like to change about how you are in relationships specifically because I don't know what's been happening between then but like your relationship with with Tyler.

Are you speaking in the context of Tyler and I's relationship? Yeah. Like, I mean, our context of how you are in relationship is mostly centered around your time with Tyler and possibly before that with, you know, you guys told some backstories, but maybe you've made some changes. Maybe you have some changes you're still working towards, but what are those changes that, you know, you would like to incorporate into your next relationship, specifically how you conduct yourself? For sure. Yeah.

I think what I've been doing, so I've been in therapy for three years. So like, I'm very happy about my journey. I know I have things to work on and I'll continue doing that. I think two things, one getting out of that survival. Like if somebody says something, I'm like automatically just like, sure. What the fuck?

Um, and not taking things personally, but also just healing my childhood. Um, I clearly have some abandonment issues. I clearly have some larger, um, childhood trauma. So I've been unpacking that and I think making myself feel safe and number one first will help me navigate whatever situation, um,

I'm faced with. So I'm happy to do that. And I'm thankful for Tyler and this experience to be able to go through something like that to show me because watching the show back was not hard for me at all. It was very healing because I was able to see, oh, okay, so that's

you know, your trauma response or that's fight or flight or, and then once I truly let go and Tyler was riding into the sunset with Kay, I was truly coming into myself. Um, and that was really happy to see. Do you think you have a bad habit of being a fixer in

relationship? Oh yeah. I like, I work in health, like public health. I work on government grants to better support underdeveloped communities. So like, this is something I see something and I just want to help. I just want to love. I didn't get that love growing up. So I want to so badly do that for someone else. Cause I know how it feels to be alone. I mean, I think sometimes the one thing I noticed at the bonfire chat with, with the two of you

And I understand there's a lot of anger and pain at that point, but it just kind of seemed like, it seemed almost like you loved Tyler more than you liked him. What do you mean by that? Damn. Well, it means that like, you know, you cared about him. You had feelings. You, you, you know, clearly were hurt, but like you just, you had a lot of notes.

For what he should do or what you think he could do or, you know, there were just a lot of things you didn't like about him. And I just, I've learned in relationships, men need to feel like you like them. Right. You know, like you are proud of them. Yeah.

And do you feel like, yeah, does that ring true? 1,000%. I definitely feel like I was trying to force something that clearly shouldn't be forced. We should have probably never been together from the very, very, very beginning. And yes, I did have notes. And now I see I need to accept my partner for who they are, not what I want them to be. So that's a lot of growth and positivity. Okay.

Well, I want to thank you all. Obviously this wasn't easy. It's clearly emotional, but thank you for being honest, you know, and hopefully I think eventually feel like it's healing. Maybe not right now.

I know the internet and all your fans and the fans of the show appreciate you guys coming together because clearly these were a lot of questions and a lot of what you shared are things that people were very interested in. So we very much appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you for coming. And thank you guys for listening. We will see you back next week. If you're new to the show, subscribe, all that fun stuff. We're here four times a week. So join the household. We welcome you. Thanks for listening.

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