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cover of episode How Groupthink Protected Biden and Re-elected Trump

How Groupthink Protected Biden and Re-elected Trump

2025/5/21
logo of podcast The Ezra Klein Show

The Ezra Klein Show

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Ezra Klein
一位深受欢迎的美国记者、政治分析师和《纽约时报》专栏作家,通过其《The Ezra Klein Show》podcast 探讨各种社会和政治问题。
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Helene Cooper
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Jake Tapper
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Ezra Klein: 我一直对拜登的年龄表示担忧,并持续向白宫工作人员询问他的状态。白宫可能创造了一种虚假的区分,承认拜登的沟通能力下降,但认为他的决策能力依然出色,我认为总统的职责不仅仅是决策,与公众沟通的能力至关重要。如果存在掩盖真相的行为,那将比我所认为的实际情况更令人不安,因为这意味着有人明知真相却选择撒谎。我们需要思考,当我们不想看到真相时,如何才能看清事实,以及如何避免被对人、党派或事业的忠诚所蒙蔽。 Jake Tapper: 特别检察官Robert Herr对拜登总统在访谈中的表现感到震惊,他和检察官们认真讨论了拜登在陪审团面前的表现,担心他看起来精神恍惚。拜登在访谈中漫无边际,无法集中注意力,对日期也不清楚。他的表现不仅仅是亲切随和,而是像一个漫无边际的老人。我和司法部长Merrick Garland都认为Robert Herr并非党派黑客。白宫对Robert Herr的攻击,实际上暴露了他们真正担心的是拜登的年龄问题。Merrick Garland最终认为,拜登想要的不是一个独立的司法部,而是一个会保护他和他的儿子的司法部。

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This episode is about a seemingly simple question: Was there a Joe Biden cover-up?

Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson’s new book argues there was. “Original Sin: President Biden’s Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again)” details how Biden’s top advisers closed the circle around him and tried to conceal the extent of his decline.

But I think the story here is more complicated. If Biden’s top advisers were misleading the public, I think they were also lying to themselves. And if there was a cover-up, it had a lot of holes; voters had been telling pollsters they were worried about Biden’s age for years.

So I wanted to have Tapper on the show to talk about the discoveries in his book, but also about some of the bigger questions raised by the Democratic Party’s decision to almost renominate Biden: How do you see what is right in front of your eyes? How do you avoid letting loyalty to a person or a party blind you?

This episode contains strong language.

Mentioned:

Democrats Have a Better Option Than Biden)” by Ezra Klein

Behind Closed Doors, Biden Shows Signs of Slipping)” by Annie Linskey and Siobhan Hughes

Book Recommendations:

Lorne) by Susan Morrison

Hitler’s People) by Richard Evans

The Holy Roller) by Andy Samberg, Joe Trohman and Rick Remender

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html)

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kelsey Kudak. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts) or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.