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Trump’s Big Budget Bomb

2025/5/23
logo of podcast The Ezra Klein Show

The Ezra Klein Show
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C
Catherine Rampell
E
Ezra Klein
一位深受欢迎的美国记者、政治分析师和《纽约时报》专栏作家，通过其《The Ezra Klein Show》podcast 探讨各种社会和政治问题。
H
Helene Cooper
Topics
Ezra Klein: 我认为特朗普政府的“大预算炸弹”是一项极不负责任的立法，它将对预算造成巨大损害，增加数万亿美元的国债。共和党人通过设置税收减免的到期日来玩弄预算技巧，以便在未来利用民众的担忧。这项法案的目的不是为了促进创新或改善健康，而是为了将财富从穷人转移到富人，同时削减对清洁能源行业的税收抵免，这实际上是在帮助中国。我认为这项法案增加了财政危机的风险，并使那些无法负担医疗保健或食物的人面临更大的风险。总而言之，我认为这是我记忆中最残酷和不负责任的国内立法。 Catherine Rampell: 我同意Ezra的观点，我认为特朗普政府的“大预算炸弹”是将财富从穷人转移到富人，从年轻人转移到老年人，从未来转移到过去。我认为美国不能继续维持这种程度的赤字支出，否则债券投资者会反抗，政治领导人需要削减开支或增加税收。我认为特朗普政府的政策，包括关税和增加债务，使得美联储更难降低利率。我认为特朗普政府可能认为，美国金融产品过于吸引人，导致美国过度依赖借贷，他们希望改变这种贸易和资金流动的不平衡。我认为特朗普决定喜欢关税，然后他周围的人争先恐后地为其寻找理由。我认为特朗普政府增加债务和实施关税的政策，可能会导致美国在未来某个时候陷入非常糟糕的境地。

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter focuses on the massive financial implications of Trump's proposed bill, estimating a potential $5 trillion increase to the national debt. It highlights the risks associated with this increase, including the potential for a fiscal crisis and its impact on the safety net.
  • Potential $5 trillion increase to national debt
  • Increased risk of fiscal crisis
  • Cuts to Medicaid and food stamps
  • 13 million people to lose health insurance
  • Increased risk of recession

Shownotes Transcript

Trump’s “big, beautiful bill” is the cruelest and most irresponsible piece of domestic legislation to be seriously proposed in my lifetime.

When you think about this bill, you should think about risk. It would increase our risk of a fiscal crisis by adding a hefty sum to our nation’s debt, at a time when we’re alienating the countries that typically buy our debt. It would slash food stamps and strip health insurance from millions of people, increasing the risk that the safety net won’t be able to catch any of us, at a time when President Trump’s tariffs have increased the risk of a recession.

It’s what I’m calling the Big Budget Bomb. And if it passes, we’ll all be in the blast radius.

My guest today is Catherine Rampell. She’s an opinion columnist at The Washington Post and an anchor on MSNBC. She’s been covering this closely, so I asked her to come on the show to help talk through all the different risks this bill brings.

***Editor’s note: *This episode was recorded before the House passed Trump’s domestic policy package.

Mentioned:

“Arkansas’s Medicaid experiment has proved disastrous)” by Catherine Rampell

“The Time Tax)” by Annie Lowrey

“Barbara Kingsolver Thinks Urban Liberals Have It All Wrong on Appalachia)” by The Ezra Klein Show

Book Recommendations:

Our Dollar, Your Problem) by Ken Rogoff

Demon Copperhead) by Barbara Kingsolver

Shy) by Mary Rodgers and Jesse Green

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html)

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Tyson Brody.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts) or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.