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Would Bernie Have Won?

2024/11/26
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The Ezra Klein Show

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Ezra Klein
一位深受欢迎的美国记者、政治分析师和《纽约时报》专栏作家,通过其《The Ezra Klein Show》podcast 探讨各种社会和政治问题。
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Faiz Shakir
伯尼·桑德斯
Topics
伯尼·桑德斯:民主党抛弃了工人阶级,导致工人阶级也抛弃了民主党。他认为,民主党应该优先考虑经济问题,并通过政策和政治策略向工人阶级示好,让他们感受到自己被重视。 Faiz Shakir:民主党对桑德斯及其政治理念存在抵触情绪,不愿正视桑德斯主义的价值。他认为,拜登政府虽然在经济上采取了民粹主义政策,但其政治策略未能有效传达给民众,导致其支持率不高。他认为,民主党应该优先关注为工人阶级争取利益,并通过更有效的沟通策略来赢得他们的支持。 Ezra Klein:一些民主党人对桑德斯阵营的批评感到不满,认为拜登政府在经济上已经足够民粹主义,并且在更偏红的地区获胜的民主党人并非民主社会主义者。他认为,民主党需要重新调整其联盟,以更好地代表工人阶级选民,同时也要考虑到不同选民群体的需求和立场。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why does Faiz Shakir believe the Democratic Party needs to embrace a Sanders-style class-first populism?

Faiz Shakir argues that the Democratic Party has abandoned working-class people, leading to their disillusionment and shift towards the GOP. He believes a Sanders-style populism that prioritizes economic issues and working-class concerns is essential for rebuilding the party's coalition.

What does Faiz Shakir identify as the key problem with the modern Democratic brand?

Shakir identifies the key problem as the Democratic Party's detachment from the economic struggles and concerns of working-class people. He argues that the party's messaging and policy focus have become muddled and confusing, failing to resonate with these voters.

How does Faiz Shakir suggest Democrats should campaign to better connect with working-class voters?

Shakir suggests that Democrats should campaign by telling a story of economic populism, framing the economy as rigged against working-class people and offering concrete solutions to their problems. He emphasizes the importance of authenticity and conviction in messaging.

Why does Faiz Shakir think Joe Manchin's success in West Virginia is significant for the Democratic Party?

Shakir believes Manchin's success highlights the importance of demonstrating independence from the liberal wing of the Democratic Party and engaging with constituents on a personal level. He sees Manchin's ability to connect with voters despite West Virginia's shift towards being very red as a lesson in effective retail politics.

What does Faiz Shakir recommend as a solution to the Democratic Party's cultural disconnect with working-class voters?

Shakir recommends that Democrats allow for honest disagreements while maintaining a strong focus on economic justice issues. He believes that by showing genuine conviction and understanding of working-class struggles, Democrats can bridge the cultural gap and regain trust.

How does Faiz Shakir view the role of media in shaping political discourse and how can the left improve its reach?

Shakir views the media landscape as fragmented, with the right having more outlets that reach large audiences. He suggests that the left needs to create more majoritarian outlets that can convey their message to a broader audience, emphasizing the importance of scale in media strategy.

What does Faiz Shakir propose as a way to make the Democratic Party more muscular and involved in people's lives?

Shakir proposes that the Democratic Party should open its doors to more community involvement, hold listening sessions, and be of service to communities. He believes this approach will help the party reconnect with its base and address the concerns of working-class voters more effectively.

Chapters
The episode begins with a discussion on whether Bernie Sanders could have won against Trump in the 2020 election, highlighting the debate within the Democratic Party about its future direction.
  • Bernie Sanders' statement on the Democratic Party abandoning working-class people.
  • The Democratic Party's struggle to win over working-class voters.
  • The debate on whether Sanders or a candidate like him could have beaten Trump.

Shownotes Transcript

There are a lot of different opinions about how the Democratic Party should rebuild after the blow of Donald Trump’s victory. And for the next two episodes, we’re going to showcase two very different ones.

Faiz Shakir was Bernie Sanders’s 2020 campaign manager, and he believes that Democrats need to embrace a Sanders-style class-first populism. This question of whether Sanders or a candidate like him could have beaten Trump loomed over Democratic post-mortems of the 2016 election, and they’ve reared up again this year, as Democrats have continued to lose working-class voters. As Sanders put it in a blistering statement: “It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working-class people would find that the working class has abandoned them.”

But some Democrats have been frustrated with this criticism. President Biden has been arguably the most economically populist president of the modern era. And the Democrats who have been winning in redder parts of the country aren’t democratic socialists. So I wanted to have Shakir on for a lively debate. Shakir worked not just for Sanders; he was also a senior adviser to the Senate majority leader Harry Reid and to Nancy Pelosi. And he’s currently the founder and executive director of More Perfect Union, a media outlet focused on issues affecting America’s working class.

This episode contains strong language.

Book Recommendations:

The Tyranny of Merit) by Michael J. Sandel

Leaders Eat Last) by Simon Sinek

Don’t Get above Your Raisin’) by Bill C. Malone

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts) or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.