How Celebs Lose Millions by Saying “No” | Ryan Schinman & DJ Irie 🥂 EP117
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a very, very, very special edition to the Money Mondays podcast because I have a guest that always turns me down. He turns everybody down for speaking, for podcasts, for interviews, because everybody wants him, but he likes to be behind the scenes where he spends hundreds of millions of dollars with celebrities, brands, TV commercials, and a lot of things that you see in video games and television, he's actually the mastermind behind it. So our guest, Ryan Shiman, I'm going to have him do a quick two-minute bio so we can get straight to the money.

Thanks, Dan. Thanks for having me. Yes, the $8.72 that you paid me to be here today is definitely worth it. It was $9. That's all it took to get me on the mic. At the end of the day, though, my bio is pretty simple. I started off as a sports agent. I loved it. At 19, I was...

probably the youngest guy in history to be a sports agent. I did that for a little while. Then I was the CMO of the first publicly traded sports marketing company when I turned 26. And what I realized, what I really enjoyed was working on the brand side versus working on the talent side. Working on the talent side, you're pitching talent all the time. You're kind of selling. My vision was how do I become a buyer? And in 98, I started a company called Platinum Rye Entertainment. And

And our entire vision was if corporations would buy talent, music, and celebrity and athletes, the way they bought media through one vertical, you get cost savings, cost avoidance, and value add. So what does that mean? Essentially, it's collective buying.

Why does someone like Pepsi use OMD to buy media instead of hiring three smart people to buy their media? OMD is buying on behalf of 40, 50, 60 companies. So when they're calling Condé Nast or Van Wagner Outdoor, they're calling NBC, they get cost savings, cost avoidance, and value added. And that was kind of the vision behind Platinum Rye, which I sold in 2004 to Omnicom. We sold the International in 2007 to them. Stayed a long time, started a lot of other businesses, digital marketing businesses, a nightlife business.

on event marketing businesses, which have all been sold. And today I'm the CEO of Mayflower Entertainment, which is essentially Platinum Rye 4.0, where we buy hundreds of millions of dollars worth of talent, music, celebrity, and music licensing on behalf of brands. And again, Dan, we represent the brands, the ad agencies, the corporations, not the talent. Is managing talent like babysitting?

I mean, it wasn't fun, especially because I wasn't managing Tom Brady or Rihanna. So at the end of the day, when you have third, fourth, and fifth round draft choices or, you know, a second round basketball player that you're begging to get a local car deal with or doing just a trading car deal at the time, much better being on the branding side. But look, a lot of babysitting too, Dan. You know, CMOs, CEOs, heads of corporate communications can even be sometimes more challenging than the talent themselves. Right.

So let's say there's a big brand out there, food brand, makeup brand, hair brand, beverage brand, and they want to go get a JLo, Rihanna, Tom Brady, et cetera. Why not go try to find someone direct to them rather than going through an agency or a big company like yours? It's a great question. I think here's the real reality. I think today with

technology with information, anybody can call and get in touch and figure out somebody's agent, someone's manager, someone PR agent, someone's lawyer. It's not that hard to get to the talent. The secret sauce is A, knowing the right talent and what they'll do and what they won't do for the budget. Two, knowing if there's conflict. So if it's a beverage brand, do they already have a beverage conflict so you don't look like an idiot when you call and say, I'd like to have you for X, Y, and Z beverage.

knowing the price points, knowing the attributes, knowing the analytics behind it, but more importantly, it's having that leverage that I was talking about

of spending and the buying power. So if someone's going to be a half a million dollars to do something, I better be getting it for 375 or 400 grand. If someone only wants to do two posts, I better be getting four or five. Someone wants to fly private, I sure as hell hope they're going to fly commercial for me. And that doesn't mean they're best friends with me. That doesn't mean they love me or we're really brilliant negotiators at Mayflower Entertainment.

It's pure and simple. It's called leverage. And that's it. So we're CAA's biggest commercial buyer, WME's biggest commercial buyer, UTA, all the record labels, all the publishers' biggest buyers. So not only do we have that inside knowledge of inside baseball, of really what's going on,

But we have the leverage and we also know what they've gotten for other endorsement deals. So I think anybody, like I said, can get to somebody. It's another thing to know their worth, know what they'll do or not do and negotiate a great deal on behalf of the brand. How do you think celebrities or athletes can stay consistent? Because a lot of them flare up and they fade away or they have one hit wonder and they fade away. They have a huge career and then they fade away. How can they stay consistent to make you still want to pay them?

I think it's pretty interesting because back when I started, essentially 30 years ago, you'd have to win five Grammys to be relevant. You'd have to be on a TV show that lasted 10 years on CBS. You'd have to have four or five big blockbuster movies. I think the problem now for talent

is we live in a world of instant celebrity, which you would know more than I do. Someone we've never heard of today, legitimately in 30 days could have 50 million people following them on YouTube. They become hot for the moment. So what happens with that is we're,

We have someone who represents brands and companies. We have so many more people to choose from. It used to be very Casablanca-esque. Line up the usual suspects. And it'd be the same 10 girls, 10 guys, 10 athletes that everyone cared about. Now, how quickly can we get on board that train that when someone has a quick hit that goes viral and all of a sudden they're number one, we can't wait six months to do a spot. We got to do something now.

Both of our good friend Gary really talks about that all the time at VaynerMedia, which is

What are you doing? We got to pounce on this idea now. We got to pounce on the moment now. How do we create a piece of content that pairs with what's going on to stay relevant? But I think, you know, it's very hard if your talent, like I said, you know, Brad Pitt's not going anywhere, but he's really not on social media. So he's great to be the face of Brioni. Right. But is he great to be the face of a new drink that needs people to, you know, post constantly, be out there constantly? Yeah.

But even if you look at what happened a year ago, two years ago, Lizzo was hot. And she kind of faded and then Ice Spice was hot. And she kind of faded and now Dochi's hot. So very few people are Lady Gaga who, yeah, she has ebbs and flows, but she's relevant for the past 15, 20 years. You know? But a lot of those people now, whether it's TV, film, sports, who have kind of ebb and flows, but kind of have been in that pop cultural zeitgeist,

are starting their own brands. They want equity. They don't want even $5 million to be in a Super Bowl ad. An unnamed talent that I can tell you that's probably one of the biggest female pop artists in the world. One of our brands offered her $20 million to be in an ad. And you know what she said? No, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity, but no thank you. So... Whoa. It shows how much money the top AAA talent is making. And...

What happens is sometimes also, Dan, not to kind of throw you a curveball, but the A- and B-plus list talent sometimes think that they could also do what Kim's done with Kim's or what Rihanna's done with Fenty or what, you know, the Paul's done and KSI for Prime or Mr. Beast with Feastables. That's very difficult. That's the 1% of the 1% of the 1%.

And even that, we don't know how long those brands are going to last. So, you know, I would say the biggest faulty of a lot of this talent is when they're hot at the moment, they don't capitalize. They say, oh, I'm holding out for Chanel or I'm going to hold out for $5 million. And then a year later, they're calling back and being like, excuse me, Mayflower, can you bring us some brand deals? And you're like, oh, I thought you were starting your own jewelry company. And now you want to do this. So, yeah.

I think you got to capitalize. I think the most famous moment was, I remember years and years ago when, when Jeremy Lin, there was something called Linsanity in New York when he played with the Knicks and we would bring him so many deals and he would turn down so many deals and his family who was kind of involved would be like, no, no, no, we're holding out. We're holding out. We're holding out. A year later, there was no such thing as Linsanity and he should have taken the millions and millions of dollars that were offered to him for people to capitalize at that moment. So,

The town and their managers and agents have to be managed right. There's nothing worse than me negotiating or someone on my team negotiating with an imaginer, agent, or lawyer. It's good to believe in your client. It's good to believe that they're Rihanna or Tom Brady or Messi, but not everybody is. So pounce, do the deal if it makes sense, and go on to the next.

So you've done it for a lot of food brands. I remember last year you did like five or six or seven of the biggest commercials in the world and you did these celebrity deals. So when a brand comes to you, let's call it a KFC McDonald's type brand. They come to you and they're like, okay, pick the talent or maybe they have a talent in mind. How do you decide 1 million, 5 million, 10 million, 20 million equity? Like how do you come up with these things? So I don't care if it's food, clothing, cosmetics, tech, you know, video games, we're in every sector, right?

And I think what happens is, you know, there's two business models that we have. One is somebody says, go fetch. I want Dochi or, you know, I want Tyler or I want Billie Eilish.

And we go fetch. We give them the analytics. We tell them what else is doing. We get a price. We kind of look at what else they've done in the marketplace, what they have coming up, what projects they have. Do they have a new record that's hitting? Are they going on tour? How can we tie into them? Will they do interviews or not? And then the second model is...

I want a Latin comedian or I want a piece of music that sounds like beautiful day by YouTube, but isn't beautiful day. What's the modern version of beautiful day that's out there right now. And that's where our team really gets to work. You know, we have a sports team, a music team, a Hollywood team, international team, and all of our teams kind of sit back and say, okay, let's look at here's 20 people that fit that creative or fit that brief and

Here's what they're doing. Here's what they have going on. Here's what they're excited about. By the way, that person will not do Burger King because they're vegan or, hey, that person loves your product because they love fries and, you know, can't wait. And that's their kind of food passion. So we give them all the information, everything that's going on, provide the analytics, give our point of view.

but we also like the brands to choose we give them it's kind of like multiple choice here you go whatever fits the brief what's also nice is we're not trying to step on the toes of their ad agencies or their pr agencies who are coming up with the brilliant creative that the talent needs to be in or the brilliant creative that i need to plug in a piece of music to or the amazing creative that an athlete wants to tie themselves to

And I think what's important is we try to sit at the epicenter because when you have the ad agency and the corporate communications agency, they sometimes don't talk. You would think they would, but they don't a lot of the time. So sometimes what happens is the PR, corporate communications, or digital agency is working on something. The ad agency is working on something. And if we're at the epicenter, we can say, hey, wait, you want this person to develop content and show up at these three things as you're launching a new product, right?

It's the same time as the ad agency is coming up with new creative. Why don't we get one talent to do both? And that way, the right marries the left. So what sometimes happens when we're not involved is ad agency will come up with great creative, PR agency will come up with great...

kind of ancillary material and content, which is sometimes even more relevant than the hero spot nowadays, but they're not talking. So we need to kind of be there and say, hey guys, let's all work together and figure out to get the assets you need, get the assets you need. And here's the right person to do it and go from there.

So you mentioned that multiple of the companies have been acquired and you've gone off and acquired some companies along the way as well. Why is it important? Why are some of these media companies buying each other? Why are they buying you? Why are you buying companies? Like, why is that happening in this space?

Well, I think at the end of the day, I don't care if it's a CPG company like Pepsi buying Poppy last week or, you know, Hershey's buying companies or, you know, everybody's buying companies. I think, you know, P&G buys companies, Unilever buys companies, Colgate-Palmolive. I think what happens is,

People have bigger companies. We can talk about the media companies in a second, but even in traditional companies, they innovate, but people are risk averse there. People will get a great salary or in departments. If they take risks, they're sometimes penalized for it. If it doesn't work out, the entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs for a reason. And they're not afraid to take risks. They're not afraid to be bold. They're not afraid to try stuff and pivot and see what works, right?

And then ultimately, you get acquired by someone who says, wow, I wish we would have thought of that, developed that, marketing that. And that's also why you hear of when, for example, you know, I was an investor in Sir Kensington and we sold Unilever. The brand was so great. It redefined kind of...

a premium condiment, whether it's ketchup or mustard or mayonnaise. But the minute you put it inside a bigger company, it kind of lost its shine, lost its way. And you don't hear about it anymore. And it's too bad because it was a brand that the two founders had at a vision. They created ketchup in their dorm rooms. They seasoned it. They thought of the name and the graphics and they were scrappy and didn't have millions of dollars of marketing budgets. And then it goes inside this ecosystem and

Who knows? So I think the same thing happens with these media companies. I mean, look at our friends, Ryan and Chris, who four or five months ago sold to Publicis. Could Publicis have developed 10 years ago and figured out that influencers are the wave of the future and brands interacting with their billions of dollars to spend?

Sure. But Ryan and Chris did it better. They thought of it. They were bold. They got strategic investments for people like WME who put money in and believed in them. They worked with brands and were scrappy and got more and more and more brands. And then people realized, hey, wait a second. Creator economy really means something. And sometimes it's better to have these makeup influencers than Julia Roberts because Julia Roberts looks beautiful in a commercial.

but she's not doing a post a week. And she's also not posting for a living. Her career is making unbelievable movies. The creators are about creating. And that's all they want to do. And what is their unique point of view to create? Same thing with event marketing companies who can be really creative

You know, when we sold to Bruin Capital and Engine Shop, we were doing unbelievable things for InBev and Budweiser and unbelievable things for Mercedes and American Family Insurance and activating at Augusta and at the U.S. Open, doing stadium naming rights deals. And a company, Bruin, which was owned by Bruin Capital and WPP, said, we want that. And my partners and I, you know, sold. But that's the secret sauce. I think at the end of the day, there's always a place for

really, really good agencies that are smart, that are bold, that are hardworking. And I think what you see more and more in the marketplace is people like me who have done it multiple times because you have that entrepreneurial spirit. You can't help but want to do something else. I think part of my secret sauce is I kind of stay within my lane. My team laughs. I call myself a one-hit wonder.

Because I just do the same thing over and over and over again in different iterations. But if you capture the CEO, the CMO, the head of corporate communications ear and do a great job for them and not try to do 50 things for them, be a specialist. This is what I do. I am not trying to replace this company, this company, this company, this company. This is what I do. And I am the best at this.

And I think that's why corporations really like us is because we're not trying to be something we're not. We're not trying to capture every dollar and squeeze every dollar out of them. And we're saying, look, use me for what we're best in class at. And by the way, you need a production company. I'm going to introduce you to one. You know, you want a great director. I'm going to juice you on. You want a great PR company. I work with 30 of them. Let me introduce you to the people who've done great by my brands. And I think that's,

It's that circle that also us in this community all know each other, respect each other. I know the best five to 10 PR agencies. And if one of my clients says, I need a good, great entertainment PR agency, here you go. I don't ask for money. I don't ask for commission. What I asked the PR agencies for is, Hey, if any of those people ever want talent, think of us. They want music. They want a booking. They want a DJ to perform. They want someone to give a speech. Right.

That's what we do. And I think by staying in your lane, you're going to be really successful in trying to be everything to everybody. So you've also done some really creative, cool deals that are in the rapper space and athlete space and DJs and music space where you're placing them in video games.

Video games have massive budgets. I don't think people realize the video game industry dwarfs the movie industry. It actually makes it look tiny when you really think about the math behind the hundreds of billions of dollars that happen in the video game space. Talk about going in and getting like the cool rappers and athletes and placing them in some video games. I think without naming the video game companies we work with, because we work with all different ones, social games, hardcore games, this and that. I think what...

musical talent especially because we also put athletes and Hollywood stars and influencers in games. But I think when it really comes to music, it's explaining to them that this is a way to hit a different demo, get out there in a big way. It's more effective than radio. I mean, look, I mean, the days, why do you think all these labels are getting rid of most of their A&R radio department that back in the day you'd go and bring the record to a DJ and be like,

Hey, play this for me. That's the way to get exposure. I think at the end of the day, you put a record in a hip game or you put an artist in a hip game, it can make them relevant to a totally different demo. There was a rapper, I wouldn't even call it a rapper, a very big hip hop rapper that we used last year in a game and we did a concert with him in the game and we helped age down the

The people who listened to my, my 12 year old had never heard of this person. Wow. Interesting. All of a sudden they did a concert in the game and my 12 year old's like singing and knowing every record the guy ever did and following them. And you would kind of have that Holy cow moment that, that piece of content and that record playing and that visual was

to a 12, 13, 14, 15, 16-year-old, 17, 18-year-old to 21-year-old who haven't heard of you or heard of you but aren't that familiar with your music, you're opening back up to a different audience. And then you see their Spotify playlists start to get more. You see their socials start to get more. And I think, you know, with a lot of the companies we work with, they get pitched every day now. I think there's not a major label...

or maybe independent label that doesn't have somebody that's looking into the video game market or gaming market to how do we get our artists played? And I think it becomes a very, very important part of the label or the record or the artist marketing plan is back in the day, if you could land that perfect commercial for exposure,

Now it's, now it's more about gaming. If you can land that game, cause it also, a lot of it can live forever in that game. Back in the day, Guitar Hero, uh, which we weren't involved in, that Activision had, it was the same thing. People wanted to be on Guitar Hero because that music was going to be played. You were interacting with the game and it was pretty amazing that they were one of the first to really meld music and gaming together. Rock Band kind of was an iteration of that. But now I don't care what gaming company you are. Um,

Think about the youth when they're playing the games. Music is a very natural component. Brands and snacks, yeah, you're eating them and you're doing them, but being locked in and listening and watching and experiencing with your friends and peers, playing while listening is a very emotional moment. And who you want to play as is just as important. What kind of outfits you want to wear? What is your costume? Who do you want to be like?

And it's pretty amazing. And also, I think a lot of the video game companies are very quick to react to trends, as we were talking a little bit about before, how maybe advertisers are a little slower. I think the ability to, here's a TikTok kind of sound or moment, whether it's a real song or not, how do we get that in game? And how do we get it in game quickly? And capitalize on that moment or a dance or a saying.

And I think these gaming companies are very hip to the fact that, hey, we're not going to pay top dollar because no different than the radio stations back in the day didn't pay you, you know, a lot of money to play their songs on the radio. We're now a voice to the next generation and the future generations. So you want to mess with us. We're going to figure this out together. What's important to you? What's important to us? Let's put a deal together.

Why do you think it's important for brands to incorporate some type of philanthropy or charity to their brand overarching? Well, I think that's, it's a great question. I think that some brands do it to check the box. We have to do it. It's something that kind of, if you look back, I think Tom's was one of the first to really be out there and have a one for one, buy a pair of shoes, we're going to be giving a pair of shoes. And, and Tom was kind of,

the leader in that. Now people had done it before and given it foundations and cereals or soda or cars, but he was the first to really bring to the forefront, um, doing great projects by doing good and having a great product and, and, and, and doing good is really important. But I think today's culture and today's consumer knows if it's a check the box or if it's something that makes sense.

What I would also say is when a brand says to me, I'd like so-and-so to perform and it's a cancer awareness charity, why won't they do it for free? Or I know they make a million dollars, but for a hundred grand, that's a lot of money for our charity. I don't understand. What do they think? They're too good for us. And what I would say, but take a step back that that person is

might not have a connection to cancer awareness. That person might have something to do with Amphar or that person may have something to do with Alzheimer's or what's important to them or music cares. So sometimes a brand aligning with a charity that wants to align with talent, you have to take a step back and say, what's important to that talent

What are the talents causes? And why don't we support the talents causes that are important to them? And they might support your cause. But again, the days of I'm a million dollars. You should do this for me for a hundred grand because I'm a good cause are out the window because there are hundreds of charities which are needed in this country. I'm a big believer. But I think you also have to listen and understand who makes sense and who has a personal connection to that charity or to that foundation that

that wholly wants to be a part of it and feels it. Because again, you know, a lot of people who speak more than I do, authenticity, authenticity, authenticity. So you got to have that connection. You got to be able to tell that story and why that talent is going to be there. And you want the talent to want to lean in and not just even take a small pay cut from a million to 500 grand. Find the connection.

So there's one question I ask on every episode and I've never, ever, ever gotten the same answer. This is episode, I think, 118, 119. So you build up your company, you go acquire a bunch of other companies. And one day, many, many years from now, become a multi-billion dollar company. But finally, Ryan passes away. What percentage of that billion dollars do you leave to those children?

To my children or children in general? To your children. To my children. Oh, very, very, very good question. I thought the children. The children of the world? I believe the children of the people. I think it's something I've thought about, right? I'm 53 years old. I'm not a 23-year-old or 33- or 43-year-old entrepreneur. So I've had a lot of time to think about it. And I think...

My answer changes here and there. And if we're going to talk on a percentage basis, they're going to get a lot of it, but they're not going to get it all at once. They're not going to get it on their 18th or 21st birthday. But I want for my kids to wake up every day and be as passionate about what they are doing as I am for what I do. So if my 12 year old son decides to be

a high school lacrosse coach, and that's what he's passionate about. I don't want him to ever worry about a mortgage, a car, maybe sending his kids to private school or camp.

I don't want him to worry, but he's got to work. He's got to work hard and he's got to be passionate. Same thing with my two daughters. I have a 14 year old and an eight year old. And what's nice is my 14 year old listens to my conversations. Um, it's almost like in the movie, Sabrina, the chauffeur getting tips from, uh, you know, uh, from the heroes of it, from Harrison Ford and Greg Kinnear. But at the end of the day, or back in the day, Humphrey Bogart, um,

But for me, my 14-year-old listens. Her and her friend Violet want to form Gravy Entertainment. Her name is Grace, and it's Violet. And they're already talking about their company at 14 years old. Wow, I love it. And she asks questions. She listens. She learns.

She gives me advice on who's cool and who's not. Because as you know, Dan, and I don't want to admit to many people that don't know me, but I'm not on social media on any form. I've never been on Facebook or MySpace or Hot or Not. You know, all the big ones. Never been on a dating app either. But at the end of the day, the reality of it is, is I want my kids to work, to be driven,

but to do what they love without the worry of their next paycheck is going to X, Y, and Z. So it's not an exact number, but it's a number to be comfortable, but still want to work hard. And that's what's important to me. I think, you know, now more than ever with what's going on in the world, you focus on, you know, to me,

three or four things, health, family, friends, experiences. And again, I know it sounds cliche, but again, I started, I'm 19, I'm 53 now. I feel like I've never worked a day in my life. Our motto, this is not easy to do it, dude. If companies and agencies could get talent or music for the price that they want, for the usage that they want, with the deliverables that they want, I wouldn't have a job, right? So nothing's easy.

But we solve problems with enthusiasm. That's always been my motto. Let's solve these problems with enthusiasm. Let's find a way. Let's always kind of be straightforward. Let's not go like this. And let's do the right thing. And it's, I think probably if you said, but you didn't ask, but I'll answer anyway. What am I most proud about of Mayflower Entertainment, my current company that's in its ninth year right now? And probably most of my other companies.

and my partners that I've had, we have very, very, very little turnover. In nine years of having, almost nine years, our ninth year of having Mayflower, we fired one person

We had one person that didn't want to be in business affairs anymore and they wanted to be an account lead. We don't have account leads, so they went somewhere else. And we had one person go to a client who was servicing that client. The client loved them so much, they brought them in-house. That's it. Wow. Nobody really leaves because...

Again, from a cliche thing, you know, a lot of people talk about their family as we're all, this is my family. It's my work family, my family. I think if you put me aside, put me in the back room and interviewed all our employees, they would all say, yeah, we're really a family. We love what we do. Brian doesn't micromanage. He lets us do our thing. We're empowered. We feel heard. We feel respected. And look, we just brought on someone new, started Tuesday.

What day is today? Thursday, two days. Newest employee's been there two days. And in the interview process, they don't come to me first. I let them go for four or five other people. They interview them both ways.

The potential employee interviews my employees, they interview and it's more of kind of an interaction. Are you the right fit to become part of this family? Because you just can't come in. And I don't want someone who's going to be here a year, two years, three years or four years. I want someone who's going to be committed to learn and be a part of our family and not leave. You know, kind of like Hotel California. You check in, but you can never leave. But we don't want you to leave. And I think that it's very hard. We're in a very specialized business.

Very hard to train new people. Very hard to bring great people aboard. There's very few specialists that do what we do in music, sports, or Hollywood, or licensing. And when we get them, we don't want to lose them. And if you ever do want to leave, you know, I, Hot and Mry, we probably, we had over 100 people. And in like 14 years, I can count on two hands how many people left or quit or got fired.

And when you're ready to leave, one person in my sports group wanted to go to Golf Digest. I'll make the call for you. One wanted to be a yoga instructor. I don't know where that came from. Let me help you. A couple of them wanted to start their own businesses. Let me seed you. I learned that from Julian Robertson at Tiger. If I have great people and I believe in them, and they want to go off on their own and do something tangential to my business, how can I support you? How can I back you, both financially and

with monetary capital, but also human capital. Let me find you good employees. Let's talk. How can I help? And I think that's what I'm the most proud of. And I look back at my career, which is very, very far from over because it's a blessing and a curse.

I'm kind of never satisfied. I'm always still hungry for the next deal, the next thing. And my wife will say to me, wow, that spot of yours was amazing with Jennifer Aniston. Didn't you love it? I said, I worked on that deal three months ago. It's over. It's on TV. Great. I've done 80 deals since. I forgot that one already, but that's terrific that you're enjoying it. And I think it's staying hungry, staying on top of things, training great people, surrounding myself with really freaking smart people.

You know, it's very easy to get a 1080 on your SATs, which I get. So I make sure that everybody else is at least above that. But as you can tell, I'm very enthusiastic. I'm still bullish about our business. I think more and more brands, no matter what sector you're in, want to use athletes, celebrities, influencers, music to sell, right? Because what am I really doing? We're helping people become aware of products and

sell, right? We want consumers to buy what we're selling using talent, using celebrity, but it works. It's always worked. It's going to continue to work and it's becoming more and more relevant. I don't know a new brand out there that at least doesn't want an influencer to talk and shout out and get to their audience. So I think our business has a long way to go to continue to evolve and morph and change, but I've never been more bullish on it.

Ladies and gentlemen, normally I would say go follow our guest on social media, but he doesn't have any. He is behind the scenes being the magical Wizard of Oz, spending these hundreds of millions of dollars like you've heard about celebrities, brands, TV commercials, video games, everything between Mayflower Entertainment and some of the things that he's been working on, you will see out there on television for the rest of your lives because it sounds like he's still addicted to working for a few more decades. So as you guys know, with the Money Mondays, the whole goal of this is for you guys to have real life discussions with your friends,

family and followers. We all grew up thinking it's rude to talk about money. I think that's ridiculous. We've got to talk about loans, taxes, bank accounts, balancing a checkbook. Those are real life things in your business and in your household. You've got to have blunt discussions with the people from your past, present and future.

So share the podcast, themoneymondays.com. I would say check out Ryan Shindman, but why don't you just listen to this podcast and really think about what he's told you because there's very few characters on the planet that have done what he's done over his career, 30 years of being in this game. And you can learn a lot. You might want to share this with your friends, family, and followers. We will see you guys next Monday on themoneymondays.com.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the money Mondays This is a very special near and dear to my heart episode because I have one of my dearest friends here like a brother to me He is someone that travels all over the planet. I happen to catch him We're in his hometown, but he's barely ever here cuz he's flying this way this way this way performing in every city around the planet with celebrities athletes

hosting his own events, hosting his big annual charity event for I don't know how many years, like 10, 15 freaking years now. He is one of those rare humans out there in the entertainment industry that built up a personal brand from being positive and smiling all the time. Only smiles. See? Which I absolutely love his energy. That's also why so many...

brands, venues, celebrities all have an affinity and gravitate towards him because of his energy, from his smile, from his laugh. So what we're going to do is on the Money Mondays, we cover three core topics, how to make money, how to invest money, how to give it away to charity. But first, we're going to have DJ Irie give a quick two-minute bio so we can get straight to the money. Let's get it, man. Let's get to the money. DJ Irie, listen, thank you so much for such a kind intro. I appreciate that, man. And listen, when family calls, family shows up, right? So we're here.

Listen, I'm a kid that just loved music, right? And music has taken me on such an incredible journey. I started out collecting records. I had an opportunity to DJ an event. This is literally like my senior year of high school. Oh, wow. Right? Ended up working out because everybody was drunk, right? And it ended up being the general manager of Planet Hollywood that I did the event for.

And he was really impressed by what I was doing, ended up giving me an opportunity at Planet Hollywood. This is when Planet Hollywood was like the wildest thing ever. The Vegas casino? No, no, no. In Miami. Oh, the restaurant. The restaurant. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was one of my first opportunities. And then from there, I went to the skating rink. And the next thing you know, I'm on the radio. Yep.

I get a call from the Miami Heat. Hey, we need to talk. Right? And in 1999, 2000, I was the first official DJ, not just of the Miami Heat, but any professional sports franchise. - No way. - Did you know that? - Oh. - It didn't exist before that. This is the 1999, 2000 season when this happened. - Whoa, cool. - They had just moved from the Miami Arena to the American Airlines Arena. And the marketing team was like, hey, let's do something really cool and different

and it came up with the idea of having an official DJ. And, you know, start asking around town and ended up, hey, I think Irie's the guy that we should start this with. And the funny thing about it was when Keep It Real goes wrong, well, all this went wrong. I said no at first.

What? Yeah, I'm an idiot. Hello, Miami Heat, man. This guy needs to be committed, right? Yeah, I thought, I didn't think it was really on brand for me at the time, right? Because understanding who their season ticket holders were, which is really what they focus on, you know? Yeah.

I was like, these aren't the folks that are listening to my radio show. They're not the folks that are coming to my nightclub events. And then I woke up and said, hey, this is an incredible opportunity. 15,000 people a night? Yeah. I was like, there's something here, you know? And thank God I did. You know, three championship rings later, right? And just the most incredible experience of my life, you know? So that worked out really well. And then, you know, here we are today. You know, I started the Irie Foundation.

started Iry Weekend, which is on its 19th year. 19th year. Sorry, I said 10 to 15 years. 19 years. 19 years. That is definitely something, you know. 19th year of Iry Weekend. Artist Related, which is our events and talent acquisition firm. And yeah, and of course, Iry Music Corp, which handles my appearances and traveling events

All over the world. All over the planet. And yeah, and we're here. This is the most important place to be is right here, right now. So when...

Venues try to book you or events try to book you. How do you determine? How do you fit it all in because your schedule is so crazy? How do you decide when you're gonna say yes when you're gonna say no what's a lot different now? It's a lot different now well first of all I don't I don't put too much time and energy and books into into like just regular nightclub nights anymore The focus is really a lot more on you know private events and in corporate the cool thing with that is you know

Clubs are great, don't get me wrong. That's where I started and I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for all the support I got from my clubs. But from where I am now in my career and in my life, it's more than just going out and playing some songs. The relationships and what we're looking to create opportunity and business-wise is a lot bigger than just an event. And that magic happens in the private events world.

and in the corporate events world, right? So that's the first thing is the nature of the event, right? You know, second thing is, 'cause I don't ever wanna just show up, play some music, and leave, you know? Great, even for, you know, good amount of money, that's cool, 'cause you know money's important, right?

But that same amount of time, I'd rather put that into something where I can create a relationship that can create a much bigger opportunity. Whether it be on the event side, whether it be on the talent side, whether it be on brand side, there's always another opportunity to come out of an event. If you look at it as a platform and springboard rather than just, hey, I'm going to go and play a couple songs, get a check and leave.

So there's so many interesting characters from sports, billionaires, models that all try to become DJs. Sure. Yeah. Right? Yeah. What do you say to them about how they can actually get good at it so they're not just trying to check a box and like, I'm a DJ now and be able to stay the same DJ? I'll tell you exactly how and I'll give you an example because there's really...

when it comes to the motivation behind doing this a lot of you have different motivations right but there's only one motivation that you'll literally excel right and

and be embraced because people understand authenticity, right? And I think the best example I could probably give you, and it's very near and dear to me because I taught him how to DJ, is Shaq, okay? I can't tell you... Listen, I don't have enough fingers on two of my hands to tell you how many celebrities I've personally had conversations with that they want to become DJs. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Man. Man. But I want to focus on Shaq for a minute because...

Shaq, when he first came to Miami, this was 2004 or five, right? Shaq comes to Miami. We had known each other before, right? Just being around the scene. But he called me and he's like, "Hey man, come by the house." He's about his house in Starland. "Come by the house, I wanna build out a studio."

And I thought he just wanted, 'cause he was always rapping, right? So he's like, "Cool, I'll come help you out." So I go over there, and he's like, "No, no, no, a DJ student, "I wanna learn how to DJ." I was like, "What?" He goes, "Yo, I really, really love it. "I wanna learn how to DJ." I said, "All right, cool." So we put the equipment in, and you know what? He would go out and do an away game, get back to Miami at two o'clock in the morning. He's calling me up, "Hey man, meet me at the house."

And he's ready, he's putting the time in, he's putting the time in, putting the time in, putting it in, putting it in, right? He didn't wanna fake the funk, right? He didn't wanna just have the look, he wanted to truly, truly understand it. And the dude put in countless, countless, countless hours, right? And it shows, because you see where he's at today, right?

And that's something he told me. He says, hey, man, I want to play what I want to play, right? And I want to travel the world. I want to tour. I want to really, really, really do this. And if you don't have that level of passion for it, it doesn't matter what your name is. Yeah, you might get a gig here or there, but you're never going to truly excel. Shaq has excelled at it. DJ Diesel is a thing. For sure. DJ Diesel is a hard ticket act. For sure. That's not easy.

It's not easy, right? It's not easy moving thousands of tickets, especially as a DJ. And he's doing it. And he's not doing it because of his past doing dunks, right? Or NBA championships. They're doing it because they love what he's playing, right? And how he's playing it. And he's developed that. He's honed that over years, right? So if you don't have that approach, honestly, you can forget about excelling.

So someone out there is listening to the Money Mondays, maybe they're a DJ or a music artist and they're going out there performing for free at first, right? They're going to wherever they can go to the W Hotel Ballroom, the lobby. They're going to the restaurant. They're going to the places to just DJ or perform for free to build their name. What's the turning point when they can finally say, pay me 500 bucks or pay me $1,000 or pay me $2,000? It's very simple. When you're out doing that date for free and you also have a call to do something else,

and you're getting five bucks for it, now you know you're onto something. Right? Because it's your time. It's your time and you have to put a value on your time. Right? So, you're right. All those dates we did for free, that wasn't for free. That was you investing in yourself. Right? That was an investment. Investments, when done correctly, guess what? Yield a return. Right? So now you start getting that call, hey,

I want you for this date. Oh, you know what? I have some on there. Well, shoot, will you consider my offer? I want to pay you $2,000. Guess what? Maybe I'll do this instead. Right? And that's what it is. You get out there. You get your name out there. You get people to start hearing your style. You get people to get a taste of what you can do and start creating that demand. Right? And creating that demand will yield that return. Yeah.

So you're going through this journey and you decide 19 years ago to start IRE weekend, start the foundation. Why is it? Why still stick with it 19 years later and have guys like Shaq show up, Dwayne Wade, et cetera, come to your golf tournaments. Honestly, you know why? Because, because it's not easy, right? It's not easy and it's necessary. You know, um, the thought process behind doing it in the first place was, um,

I was getting calls constantly, Dan Marino, hey man, we're having something for the kids. We'd love for you to come out. They'd love to see you, if you can be a part of it.

Absolutely, let's do it. Right? Udonis Haslam. Hey, man, we have something going on. Let's do it. Alonzo. Hey, let's do it. Shaq would call. Right? All these amazing, you know, Dwayne, you know, and I would always try to be there. You know, the Special Olympics, you know, big brothers, big sisters, make a wish. We're all, hey, we're having something. As long as it was physically possible for me to be there.

I felt it incumbent upon myself to do it as my form of giving back. And moving around and seeing what's going on in my community, I started noticing areas where like, well, I don't think this is getting enough attention, right? I don't think this area is getting any kind of visibility, right? And I think this is important. And I was like, well, I'm not one to be like, well, hey, someone should do something. Right.

I'll do it. Right. And how do I gather the resources to start, you know, focusing on things that I believe are important, you know, in society? And that is OK. Well, shoot, maybe I should make some calls and see if they'll come and support me. Right. And the most amazing thing about it was when I figured out what I wanted to do, I started making some calls and it was absolutely amazing.

Of course, I'll be there. Right? What else can I do? And it was just overwhelming, you know? And that's how, you know, we got it off the ground. And, you know, year after year to see, you know...

To me, success is how many kids can we help? Sure. Right. Sure. How many how many scholarships can we send out? Right. How many kids can we get cars? Right. You know, how many things can we do to support them to be successful in their endeavors? Right. And get them out of their situation. Right. And as long as we can do that and convert these lives and put them on a path to success, this hard work is worth doing and we can continue doing it.

So a lot of people interface with celebrities, athletes, business people, et cetera. But I think they get their phone number where they take a quick picture and they don't actually build a relationship. Yeah. These are your friend friends. Yeah, for sure. We've all seen on your social media the Jamie Foxx's of the world. You travel the world with these people. You'll film with them. Yeah, man. Perform with them. Not post them sometimes. Sometimes they're posting you. Yeah, true. There's hundreds of times you've not posted them. I'm thrilled with that, man. And I always want to push them. I'm like, dude, you're with who? So yeah.

I'm so bad, man. I'm so bad. I'm so bad. But you're so good at building the relationship where they want you there. For someone that's trying to build a relationship with someone that's bigger than them, maybe it's a bigger business person, a bigger celebrity, a bigger athlete, a bigger music artist that they aspire to be like, or they just want to be closer friends with them, what would you say about the relationship part to make people feel comfortable with having you there? You know what? It's a great question, right? And it's funny. I was talking to...

a friend of mine just the other day, I won't say who he is, but he's worth about six billion, right? And he's a really, really good friend of mine. And we go on vacations together. He lends me his yacht. Like it's unreal, you know? And I'm like, you know what's funny?

He called me, this was like two days ago. He was telling me about a situation. He wanted to get my advice on something, right? And he was talking about a situation of someone who I know as well, and he kind of gave me the rundown. And I was like, damn, like this is kind of a messed up situation because it was a really close friendship that kind of went over money, right? And I was like, wow, never once. Listen, I've been, Dan, listen, man, I'm blessed, right?

super, super, super, super blessed, right? But dude, I've had tough times. Sure. Right? And I'm sure a lot of people out there have had tough times, right? You know what else is funny? In my tough times, and don't get me wrong, if I was in a situation where I couldn't put food in my family's mouths, I would do whatever I had to do to do that, right? But

I've never been in a situation where I didn't have to worry about, you know, where my next meal is going to come from. Right. But it would have been really, really, really convenient for me to pick up the phone and call my billionaire friend and say, hey, man, I need X amount. You know, can you help me? Right. And honestly, you know what? They probably would. They probably would. But you know what? I still wouldn't. Right. I still I still. And this this is me talking for me. Sure. Right. One thing I never want to.

you know, one of my wealthy friends to think is that he's around because he needs something from me. Right? And I know if I really, really needed it, I could. But it opened my eyes hearing that situation. Right? It's like, they're people. Right? Whether it be famous or... But they're still people. Right? And they want to be valued as a person, first and foremost. Right? And...

You know what, if I didn't mention, "Oh, hey man, I'm going through a tough time," whatever, they'd be the first ones to be like, "Hey, what you need?" You know what I mean? "I got you." But for me, it's more important that we're buds, right? We're buds. I got you. We can talk about anything. We hang, we have fun. One thing I'm never gonna be is your dependent. - Yep. - Right?

Never going to be, maybe some other people around you might need that. But me, I work for mine. I figure it out. And they respect that. You know what I mean? They respect that. They respect that. And even for me and other people that I see around me, and I know certain things, I respect that. You know? And if you stand for that, that's something that will...

carry you a long ways in that kind of circle. Don't ever be in that circle as someone that looks at, okay, what can I get? Oh, they got it, so I can ask for it. Don't ever, ever, ever be that way, ever. The godfather of my baby is the founder of Marvel Studios. Sold it to Disney for $4 billion and ended up being $8 billion deal. And my-

17 years we've been close friends and my one rule that he doesn't know about is I don't do business with him Yeah, the gods rather my child. Mm-hmm. We've been around the planet together. Yeah, we hang out 30 times a year Yeah, right. Yep, and I asked him business advice and he asked me life advice Mm-hmm, and he's asked about like can I invest in this guy invest in that and I've skirted around it without ever telling him my one rule Wow

And some of those companies have worked out great and he's joked about it, but he doesn't actually know why I don't do it. Right. And I just don't want to ever have that situation where he puts in a hundred K or 10 million or a million, whatever the number is into a deal. Yep. And whether it works out or not, I don't want to have that interaction where many of my other friends,

I do want that. Sure. Like, I want that relationship. I want to help them make money, but him putting in a million and getting back three million changes nothing. True. And so there's not as much of an incentive for me to help. For sure. He doesn't need to make money. He doesn't care about that. He wants life. Exactly. And he wants experiences. And guess what? That's what you can bring to the table. A lot of times people don't realize, you know, you have to understand that

how different people fit into your life. - Yeah. - Right? And what is of value to them. - Experiences of what they're valued. - Absolutely. - I invite him to charity events. - Absolutely. Absolutely. And I bet you that's made, that has enriched his life more than money ever could. - I still fight to pay for the dinners before he can get to the bill, by the way.

Right? It's funny. Listen, some of these folks, they don't even know what that is. It's just they automatically, whoever they're with, expects them to handle it. You know what I mean? His eyes are bugged out when there's no check coming in. Like, wait, what? Yeah, it's what he paid for. But that's the person I want to be. Yeah. Right? When it comes to being in those circles. And I think that's why...

I've become, you know, I mean, not only we become family and stuff, but they look at you differently, you know? And here's the thing about it too, that is like, you know, for me, I love music. Music is my business, but I am a businessman. You know, I operate a number of companies, right? But first and foremost, I'm a DJ. And I'm a DJ that have entered this world of music, right? And have created other opportunities. But here's the thing about it. When I go in these circles,

a lot of times people look at me and be, oh, that's the DJ, right? That's the talent, that's the entertainment. And that's all they'll see, right? And I know I have bigger aspirations in terms of what I want to talk about, right? And the opportunities I want to explore, right? How do you change that perception? How do you change that conversation, right? And it is a process, right? And one thing I'm most proud of

is that a lot of these folks I'm talking about that have gone on to be incredibly successful and multi-billionaires, I may have met them because I was hired to perform an event, but a year, two years, three years later, we're business partners.

Right? Sure. We're business partners. I've been given an opportunity to invest in a product that they're doing. They may have gotten involved in something that I'm doing, but I've over time been able to change that perception and change that conversation. Right?

And that is so important. And that's for me, but there's other people out there that are in different fields that maybe get introduced into a situation being viewed as one thing does not mean you have to stay in that position. Use your knowledge, your intellect, and put it out there, your aspirations. And people will be receptive to that.

Next thing you know you're in different rooms having different conversations than you ever even dreamt about so there's a couple key restaurant nightclub groups that we know of right that the public knows about because there's front-facing figures of Jason Strauss on this side Noah Teppenberg over here Dave Grutman in Miami Yeah, there's certain main characters and the key cities Miami Los Angeles Las Vegas New York etc. Yeah, and there's smaller pockets where someone will start off like a

Tosh would start off in Phoenix and then boom, now it's all over the country, right? - Boston. - You got Tucker Madera all over the place. Boston, you have Randy Greenstein. - Yeah, Big Night, yeah. - Right? There's certain main characters that run a city, right? They've got five to 20 venues and they are the man, right, or the woman. - Yep. - And so how are some of these characters lasting for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, 30 years in a space where most restaurant nightclubs fade away after one or two years? - Yep, yep. So here's the thing, Matt. It's one thing to just have a great concept.

It's another thing to really understand your market, right? And understand what drives your market. And at the end of the day, not only do you understand the makeup of your market, but you have to, have to, have to, have to be dialed into people. Because it really comes down to people, right? And if you really look at these different operators that have really gotten a super great hold, you know, on their respective cities, right? If you...

dissect what's going on. Not only you'll find great concepts, you'll find great customer service, whatever, but you will find people that have been a part of these organizations that, you know what, if you strip away everything else and put them on their own, they'll be doing their thing. You understand what I'm saying? So if you really look at it, you have all of these kind of micro-leaders that are incredible in their own right,

But now they're part of this bigger operation, right? So you're saying like the guys that are the movers and shakers like J-Rock, Mr. Miami Purple are- Exactly. They're out there, they're the driving force behind the Grutman Empire, right? But you put it all together and it works. Right. And it works, right? And you might have somebody go off and either go to another market or go out and somebody else is ready to come up, right? Because you take a, let's look at Miami, right? Yep.

There's a young promoter out there right now making a name for himself, right? There's a young operator out there making a name for himself. Matter of fact, you know what? There's a guy, I'll call him out, a guy named Chris Cuomo, right? I met Chris, he was working with a guy named Chef B at Nayara. Chris was an incredible restaurant operator, I mean, incredible. The guy just gets it, right? Gutman tapped him.

And said, hey man, I need you over here. Time to come to the big leagues. Right? And you know what? And he's been a superstar. Sure. A superstar. You literally...

See Dave, when Dave pulled over and said, hey man, what's Chris meant to the business? And he'll tell you, he's been a huge part of the business. So understanding when it comes to leadership, one thing great about Dave, he understands talent, nurtures that talent, and puts them in a position to win. That's the key. And in my opinion, and of course having great concepts, that's super important. But you identified that superstar talent, and you put them in a position to win, and give them the resources to win.

you'll be around 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. 100%. All right, guys. As you know, on this podcast, the whole goal is to talk about money, business, and for you to have these discussions with your friends, family, and followers. We grew up thinking it's rude to talk about money in our households, but actually it's rude not to talk about it. You've got to talk to people around you about finances, accounting, taxes, balancing a checkbook.

So that you don't go out there and not understand what to do for the IRS. Not understand what to do if you should lease a car or buy a car or how should you get a loan. Not understand all the basic things that are real life. Your checkbook, groceries, all those things are real life things. You need to have discussions with the people in the past.

present, and your future. So what I want you to do is make sure to share and follow this podcast with your friends, family, and followers because we've been running it ad-free for you for like 120 episodes now. I want you to enjoy the podcast. And when you hear things or see characters on this podcast that

impact other people's lives. If you know someone in the entertainment field or the music space or trying to come up in their category, well, you should share a podcast with someone like I read because they're going to get tidbits in here that could literally change the course of their life. Like literally change the course of their life. It's the butterfly effect is insane. So check out DJ I read across all social media platforms. Visit us on the money mondays.com. We'll see you guys next Monday.