Congress Grills NPR, a Filibuster Showdown & Behind the Tariffs Week In Review
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I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break Podcast, a real conversation about finance.

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have to revisit that. And we're not stopping at success stories. What happens when it doesn't go right? How do you cope with it? Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

Welcome to this verdict with Ted Cruz, a week in review. Ben Ferguson with you. And here are the big stories that you may have missed that we talked about this week. First up, NPR was in front of Congress having to answer questions about all the government funds that are going to their organization. You're going to be shocked what the CEO had to say and how out of touch they were with reality.

Also, you had a filibuster that happened this week, but what was it over? Well, that's the funny part. We'll give you the details of one senator that decided to stay up all day and all night to filibuster your vote. And finally, Senator Cruz takes you behind the scenes so you understand exactly what's going on with his colleagues when it comes to the tariff situation. It's the Weekend Review, and it starts right now.

Which brings us to another aspect of this, and that was what happened in Congress last week with NPR CEO and PBS CEO there in front of Congress having to deal with what Doge is doing, which is cutting waste, fraud and abuse.

And it did not go very well for the CEOs. It reminded me an awful lot, Senator, of when those the presidents of the Ivy League schools had to come and answer questions about anti-Semitism on college campuses.

after the attacks on Israel, and people were just in shock how radical they were and how they were not stopping it. It was very reminiscent of that with NPR CEO, very arrogant, PBS CEO, very arrogant, like, this is what we do. We take your money and we put out propaganda, so sue us. That's what we've been doing forever.

Well, and Catherine Maher, who's the CEO of NPR, is arrogant, drippingly arrogant. She is hard left. And it was exactly like it. You're right. The president of Harvard, the president of Penn, both of whom lost their jobs over their arrogant, out of touch testimony before the House, where she is.

Look, she's a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. She worked for UNICEF. She worked for the National Democratic Institute. She worked for the World Bank and Access Now. She worked for Wikimedia Foundation. She joined the Atlantic Council. She was part of the Department of State's Foreign Affairs Policy Board. She is a hard leftist. But look, don't take my word for it. Listen to it out of her own mouth. And I want you to listen in particular...

For this back and forth with Brandon Gill. Brandon Gill is is a freshman house member from Texas. He's a good friend. I campaigned hard for Brandon. I endorsed him in the primary. Brandon is a rising star in the house. And just listen to this back and forth as he questions her and and and and hangs her on her own petard with her own words. Give a listen.

Do you believe that America is addicted to white supremacy? I believe that I tweeted that. And as I've said earlier, I believe much of my thinking has evolved over the last half decade. It is. OK, stop, stop, stop, stop. I want you to notice something she says there. Much of my thinking has evolved over the last half decade. Ben, what's a half decade?

Five years. That would be five years. Doesn't a half decade sound long? I believe much of my thinking has evolved over the last half decade. Oh, crap. What I said five years ago. Oh, no, that's a real problem. Run away. Run away. All right. Go back to what he's playing with has evolved. I just like that comment. Her idiocy only gets worse. It made me laugh. As soon as I heard, I was like, this is not going well. Keep listening. It gets worse. Why did you tweet that? I don't recall the exact context, sir. So I wouldn't be able to say.

Okay. Do you believe that America believes in black plunder and white democracy? I don't believe that, sir. You tweeted that in reference to a book you were reading at the time, apparently, The Case for Reparations. I don't think I've ever read that book, sir. You tweeted about it. You said you took a day off to fully read The Case for Reparations. You put that on Twitter in January of 2020.

Apologies, I don't recall that I did. Okay. I have no doubt that your tweet there is correct, but I don't recall that. Okay. Do you believe that white people inherently feel superior to other races? I do not. You don't? You tweeted something to that effect. You said, I grew up feeling superior. Ha, how white of me. Why did you tweet that? I think I was probably reflecting on what it was to be white.

to grow up in an environment where I had lots of advantages. It sounds like you're saying that white people feel superior. I don't believe that anybody feels that way, sir. I was just reflecting on my own experiences. Do you think that white people should pay reparations? I have never said that, sir.

Yes, you did. You said it in January of 2020. You tweeted, yes, the North, yes, all of us, yes, America, yes, our original collective sin and unpaid debt, yes, reparations, yes, on this day. I don't believe that was a reference to fiscal reparations, sir. What kind of reparations was it a reference to? I think it was just a reference to the idea that we all owe much to the people who came before us. That's a bizarre way to frame what you tweeted, sir.

Okay. How much reparations have you personally paid? Sir, I don't believe that I've ever paid reparations. Okay. Just for everybody else? I'm not asking anyone to pay reparations. Seems to be what you're suggesting. Do you believe that looting is morally wrong? I believe that looting is illegal, and I refer to it as counterproductive. I think it should be prosecuted. Do you believe it's morally wrong, though? Of course. Of course. Then why did you refer to it as counterproductive? Okay.

It's a very different way to describe it. It is both morally wrong and counterproductive as well as being illegal. You tweeted, it's hard to be mad about protests in reference to the BLM protests not prioritizing the private property of a system of oppression. You didn't condemn the looting. You said that it was counterproductive.

NPR also promoted a book called In Defense of Looting. Do you think that that's an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars? I'm unfamiliar with that book, sir. And I don't believe that was at my time at NPR. You tweeted that you read that book. I don't believe that I did read that book. It's amazing. She tweeted that she read the book. She's like, I don't believe that I ever read that book. So you're either lying now or you're lying, what, a half a decade ago, if she likes to describe it. Right, Senator? Yeah.

Look, that is a crushingly effective cross-examination. And if you look at...

She is running away from everything she's ever said, everything she's ever believed, because it is indefensible. When she says, you know, she claimed on Twitter she took an entire day off to read a book on reparations. It was so important that she devoted a day of her. And now she has no recollection. I'm sorry. I you know, this this will be before you were watching TV. But but there was an old series. You ever watch Hogan's Heroes? Yeah. Oh, gosh. Yes. OK. Well, do you remember Sergeant Schultz?

Yes. Sergeant Schultz, he would say, I see nothing. I hear nothing. That is that is Catherine Moore. She sees nothing. She hears nothing. And yet this is someone charged with spending millions of taxpayer dollars running what is a left wing propaganda network. You know, her statement, I've never called for reparations.

I got to say, Brandon, I think does a fabulous job. Well, yes, you did. Let me read you the tweet. And she says, reparations, yes. Oh, oh, well, well, other than when I called for reparations, but I haven't called for it other than when I've called for it. But no, no, it's not fiscal reparations. It's, I mean, repairing the tires on their cars. Those are the reparations. I mean, it...

She has no answer because her answer is she desperately wants to run away from everything she has ever said or done. But let me actually, let's actually go to something else that she said and did, which is, what do you think she has cited as the number one challenge that is facing journalism right now?

Knowing this woman, have no idea. Okay. Here is a quote from her at a panel at the Atlantic Council Research Lab. Quote, The number one challenge that we see here is, of course,

the First Amendment in the United States. It's so on brand for her that it's almost unbelievable. A woman who says that she believes in the public and radio and free speech says that's the real problem is the First Amendment. In fact, Senator, here's the NPR CEO in her own words saying exactly that.

The number one challenge here that we see is, of course, the First Amendment in the United States is a fairly robust amendment.

protection of rights. And that is a protection of rights both for platforms, which I actually think is very important that platforms have those rights to be able to regulate what kind of content they want on their sites. But it also means that it is a little bit tricky to really address some of the real challenges of where does bad information come from and sort of the influence peddlers who have made a real market economy around it.

I mean, you listen to her and it's just amazing. If we could just do what we want and get rid of everything we don't want and silence anybody that says that is disagreeing with us and everything would be fine in media and with our government. Right. We could just control everybody and shut everybody down. We don't like that is the NPR CEO saying it.

Look, the left believes in censorship. They don't believe in journalism. They don't believe in media. They believe in propaganda. And you and I on this podcast covered last year a story that was written in the free press by Yuri Berliner, and it was in April of 24, and it was entitled...

I've been at NPR for 25 years. Here's how we lost America's trust. And I just want to read the beginning of it again, because we did a good chunk of a podcast just on this story. But it really sets up the absolute disaster that is NPR today. Here's how Uri Billiner began. You know the stereotype of the NPR lister, an EV driving, wordle playing, tote bag carrying coastal elite.

It doesn't precisely describe me, but it's not far off. I'm Sarah Lawrence educated, was raised by a lesbian peace activist mother. I drive a Subaru and Spotify says my listening habits are most similar to people in Berkeley. I fit the NPR mold. I'll cop to that. So when I got a job here 25 years ago, I never looked back. As a senior editor on the business desk where news is always breaking, we've covered up people's in the workplace, supermarket prices, social media and A.I.,

It's true NPR always had a liberal bent, but during most of my tenure here, an open-minded, curious culture prevailed. We were nerdy, not knee-jerk activists or scolding. In recent years, however, that has changed. Today, those who listen to NPR or read its coverage online find something different. The distilled worldview of a very small segment of the U.S. population. If you are a conservative, you will read this and say, duh, it's always been this way.

But it hasn't. For decades since its founding in 1970, a wide swath of America turned into NPR for reliable journalism and gorgeous audio pieces with birds singing in the Amazon. Millions came to us for conversations that exposed us to voices around the country and the world radically different from our own, engaging precisely because they were unguarded and unpredictable. No image generated more pride within NPR than the farmer listening to Morning Edition from his or her tractor at sunrise.

Back in 2011, although NPR's audiences tilted a bit to the left, it still bore a resemblance to America at large. 26% of listeners described themselves as conservative, 23% as middle-of-the-road, and 37% as liberal. By 2023, the picture was completely different.

Only 11% described themselves as very or somewhat conservative. 21% as middle of the road and 67% of listeners said they were very or somewhat liberal. We weren't just losing conservatives. We were also losing moderates and traditional liberals.

An open-minded spirit no longer exists within NPR. And now, predictably, we don't have an audience that reflects America. Now, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation, you can go back and listen to the full podcast from earlier this week.

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I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to The Wealth Break. Let's be honest. Building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle, and relying on your community to create something bigger. And that's exactly why we created The Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles, and real wins.

We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learned to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six-figure business, we're bringing you their stories. And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risks, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters.

Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same. So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place. Listen to the Wealth Brave podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

Now on to story number two. All right, Senator, so let's move to another very interesting moment. One of your colleagues in the Senate decided he was going to take away your record on a filibuster. You guys were very different in why you were filibustering, but he did beat your record today, and you even posted something that was hilarious online as well.

Well, Cory Booker, Democrat from New Jersey, has now set the record for the longest speech in history on the Senate floor. And he spoke for 25 hours and four minutes. And so it was incredibly long. It surpassed the record had been held by Strom Thurmond, who spoke for 24 hours and 18 minutes in 1957. And he was

He was filibustering. Strom Thurmond was filibustering the 1957 Civil Rights Act. And that had been the record until last night when Cory Booker broke it. Now, fourth all time is yours truly. I used to be third all time.

But but Corey knocked me down. And so so my record in in 2013, I spoke on the Senate floor for 21 hours and 19 minutes.

And so Corey just beat me. I will say I tweeted out right before he broke my record. And so I took to Twitter and tweeted out, as Cory Booker approaches my 21-hour filibuster record, I'm contemplating pulling the fire alarm.

hat tip Jamal Bowman. And I sent out a picture of Jamal Bowman, the Democrat congressman pulling the fire alarm in the Capitol to avoid a vote. And I will say that that that that tweet went viral. And in fact, Corey ended up at the end of his his 25 hour filibuster reading that tweet on the Senate floor, which which was a.

which I enjoyed. And I actually like Cory and he and I are friends. And so I'm glad he read it. And I will say in my 2013 filibuster, I read a number of tweets on the Senate floor. And I believe that was the first time in history a tweet had ever been read on the Senate floor. And I read a whole bunch of them. Now, there is a significant difference between what I was filibustering over and what Cory Booker was filibustering over.

What I was filibustering over was Obamacare. And I was doing so because it was right when Obamacare was going into effect.

And I was trying to stop it from going into effect because the American people, it was having the effect of driving up premiums, dramatically reducing choices. Barack Obama famously said, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. And millions of Americans discovered that was not the case. That was a lie. In fact, PolitiFact named Barack Obama's, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, the lie of the year. And for them to admit a Democrat is lying is really quite remarkable because PolitiFact lies for a living.

And so that filibuster, when I did it in 2013, I was a brand new baby freshman. And it was the theme of the filibuster was make D.C. listen. And I will tell you, it had a significant effect. And in fact, it energized people across the country. And I'll point to what the effect was in 2014.

The next year, we had an election and it was a tsunami election. Republicans ended up winning nine Senate seats. We retired Harry Reid as majority leader. And we ended up winning the biggest majority in the House of Representatives since 1928. And if you look at exit polling,

In that 2014 election, the number one issue in the country, according to the voters, that were turning out in massive numbers was Obamacare. And they were saying, finally, finally, you're fighting. Finally, Republicans are not rolling over. And so that had, I think, a very significant effect on Election Day and helped win back both the Senate and House for Republicans. I don't think Cory Booker's is going to have that same effect. And in fact...

Listen, I don't know how many people watched it. I suspect like the that CNN and MSNBC was probably gushing about it. But I'll confess I didn't turn on CNN or MSNBC. So I don't know one way or the other. I don't particularly care. The seven rabid partisans who watch those networks probably were quite happy with it.

But at the end of the day, look, what was Cory Booker talking about? As best I can tell, it was, I hate Donald Trump. I'm a Democrat. Trump bad. Orange man bad. I'm mad at the voters. Why did the voters elect Trump? Why did the voters elect a Republican Senate? Why did the voters elect a Republican House? Gosh, I'm mad at the voters. Gosh, I hate Trump. I'm not sure there's anything new there. I'm not sure. Was there a person in America who,

who was confused yesterday and didn't know that Senate Democrats hate Donald Trump? Like, was there any new information in it? And so I've got to say, I'm skeptical,

that it's going to have a meaningful impact. And I'll point out, it's not just me who said that. Take a listen to what Joe Biden's communications director, Kate Bedingfield, said about Cory Booker's speech.

The Democratic base and Democratic donors are looking for signs of life. And so I think what Senator Booker is giving them here are some signs of life. Is it going to have a tangible impact on business? I mean, if he is still alive after this. It's not. It may have a tangible impact on Senator Booker, but it won't have a tangible impact on business in Washington. All right.

I mean, that's CNN saying it, Senator. And look, it was they changed. And that's Biden's communications director. It's Biden's communication director, amazingly enough. And so so look, Corey, that's that that's fine. Now, I will tell you. So it was funny as as Booker was giving his his filibuster.

And reporters were all running up to me and then they all knew that that that he was he was aiming to beat my record. So they were asking me about it. And they said, did you have any advice? And I will I will admit, Corey didn't ask me for any advice. So now I did not give him any advice on this.

But I did share a story. So when I did the filibuster in 2013, I had gotten some advice from Rand Paul. So Rand Paul had done a 13-hour filibuster, and I was planning to do mine. And I asked him, hey, Rand, you got any advice? Because he'd just done 13 hours. And he said, yeah, two things. He said, number one, wear comfortable shoes, because he said your feet and your legs will be killing you.

And I will confess, as you know, every day in the Senate, I wear black cowboy boots. The boots, I wear alligator boots, and they have the Senate seal on the front. And on the back of it, they have the come and take it flag. And so that's my standard footwear in the Senate. But for the filibuster, I went to the store and I bought some black tennis shoes.

And in the middle of the filibuster, at like two or three in the morning, I confessed to the people of Texas. I said, look, I have to—I just have to apologize to the people of Texas. I'm sorry I didn't have the courage of my convictions.

to wear my boots. I weenied out and got black tennis shoes, but I was planning on standing here for a really long time. And so I will admit the tennis shoes are more comfortable for the marathon time. The second bit of advice Rand gave me. I got to ask you, though, when you were picking out the tennis shoes, did you buy brand new or did you wear them a little bit beforehand? Yeah, I didn't break them in and they were fine. And I don't think I've ever worn them since then. Like I literally wore them for the filibuster and that was it.

But fortunately, even though they were new, they were pretty comfortable. They were not bad at all. The second bit of advice Rand gave me was, if anything, even more important. He said, drink very little water. And in fact, Rand said when he ended at 13 hours, he said, my legs didn't make me give in. My bladder did.

And the most common question that I would get about the filibuster is, okay, what do you do about going to the bathroom? And the real simple answer is you don't. So the rules of a filibuster are,

You have to stand. You cannot sit. And you have to stay on the Senate floor. If you sit or if you leave the Senate floor, you relinquish the floor. And so and that's why that's why comfortable shoes matter, because you're not allowed. You're technically not even allowed to lean on the desk, although that that rule is not not heavily enforced. You can lean a little bit, but you can't.

But but you can't can't sit. And and legend has it that during Strom Thurmond's filibuster that that that he had an aide hold a bucket in in in in the Senate cloakroom and and and and he he took a leak.

While filibustering, while standing on the Senate floor, I figured in the in the era of C-SPAN, that probably wasn't the best idea. So I was not going to do that. And so for the entire course of 21 plus hours, I drank one tiny little glass of water and that that's all. I basically would take a little sip just to just to moisten my throat.

And I got to say, look, I've never gone 21 hours without going to the bathroom. And, you know, I discovered a very simple principle, which is nothing in, nothing out. And so it was fine, but that was excellent advice. All right. So final question on this. And this is, I'm sure, something that was going through your mind, Cory Booker's mind. When did you...

know you were just going to end it how do you decide are you looking at a certain time in your mind where you're like I gotta make it to X and then as soon as it hits I'm done what is the process of that as well

Well, actually, I could have gone longer. And the problem was in order to do the filibuster, a pure filibuster is when the Senate floor is wide open and you take control of the filibuster. And it is the prerogative of every every senator have unlimited debate. And so if you take control of the floor, you can hold it for as long as you are able to hold it.

When I started the filibuster, unfortunately, Harry Reid, then the majority leader, the Democrats were in charge,

had locked in a unanimous consent resolution that the next day there was a vote scheduled, I think at noon, and it was locked in, which meant I had an endpoint. I had an endpoint that was a wall because that unanimous consent had been locked in, and so it trumps voting.

It it it is it's effectively a Senate rule. And so when I was north of 21 hours, I had plenty of strength. I could have kept going and I really wanted to break Strom Thurmond's record. And I actually sent one of my staffers to ask Harry Reid if he would consent. I could have asked unanimous consent there.

to be allowed to complete my speech. And if Reed had allowed it, I would have been able to. So I asked my staffer, I'm like, look, do you really want the record for the longest filibuster to be held by a segregationist who was filibustering against the civil rights laws? Like,

You know, I'd really love to break it. And Harry Reid being Harry Reid, he just said no. And so I was forced to end when I did. Cory Booker, there was not a unanimous consent in place locking up the time. And so Cory was able to go long enough as long as he wanted. And then he was able to break the record. As before, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation on this topic, you can go back and download the podcast from early this week to hear the entire thing.

You know how we're always talking about what's next? Well, I've found it. It's called Formula E. Forget everything you think you know about racing. This isn't just cars going fast. It's like a supercomputer on wheels. The tech is insane. And the drivers? They're like chess grandmasters at 200 miles per hour. You've

Got to see it. Trust me, you'll be hooked. Follow Formula E live on Roku. Next race, Miami, April 12th.

After more than a year of war, terror, and pain in Israel, the need for security essentials and support for first responders is still critical. Israel must be prepared for the next attack, wherever it may come from, as Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides. Well, the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and will continue to support the people of Israel with life-saving security essentials.

And that is where your gift will help save lives by providing bomb shelters, armored security vehicles, armored ambulances, firefighting equipment, flak jackets, and bulletproof vests, and so much more. That's where your generous donation today will help ensure the people of Israel are safe and secure in the days and weeks to come. And as the threats of terror remain imminent. So give a gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting...

That's one word, supportifcj.org. Or call 888-488-IFCJ. That's 888-488-IFCJ. 888-488-4325 or supportifcj.org.

I was in Whole Foods the other day looking for a fun little bevy to go with my lunch, and I found my new obsession. SunSip is a gut-healthy soda from HealthAid, and they just dropped two new flavors. Dr. Bubbles is a fresh take on the doctor's signature blend of sweet fruit and subtle spices, while Cream Soda serves up velvety vanilla and sweet caramel. And the best part?

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I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to The Wealth Break. Let's be honest. Building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. It's not just about saving. It's about investing. It's about navigating systems that weren't built for you, embracing your hustle, and relying on your community to create something bigger. And that's exactly why we created The Wealth Break. We made something different, something more human. It's not just another financial podcast. It's a conversation about real life, real struggles, and real wins.

We're here to talk about the journey. You're hearing from people who've broken barriers, found creative ways to succeed, and learned to build wealth on their terms. Whether it's the first time homeowner, a gig worker, or someone turning a side hustle into a six-figure business, we're bringing you their stories. And we're not stopping at success stories. We're breaking down the realities, like what it means to take risks, how to navigate failure, and why resilience matters.

Because wealth isn't about money. It's about creating a life where you can thrive and help others to do the same. So if you're ready for a podcast as much as about people as it is about money, you're in the right place. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app. I want to get back to the big story number three of the week you may have missed. All right, so then I got to ask you this question. Behind the scenes...

What are the conversations with your colleagues on a scale of 1 to 10? How concerned are they over the scenario that you just described? 42. Okay. Look, there's another point that I think is important to understand. So you and I did a podcast, I think last week, where we talked about tariffs. And I talked about it. I said, listen, the president uses tariffs for two principal purposes. One is leverage, as an incentive to...

to incentivize other countries to enact policies that benefit America. And the clearest example of that is the threatened tariffs against Mexico and Canada, unless and until they help us secure the border. Now, using tariffs as leverage for something like that is very effective. The president uses it really well, and particularly using them to push sanctions

uh, securing the border. I am emphatically in favor of that is it, it has proven successful. It worked incredibly well in the first term. It produced the remain in Mexico agreement with Mexico. It produced the lowest rate of illegal immigration in 45 years, stopping the border invasion of the last four years is an acute national security and public safety, uh,

It is a mandate from the last election. It is massively important for Texas. So I'm all for using the threat of tariffs as leverage to get good policy that benefits America. But there's a second component, and this is an important thing to understand, which is Donald Trump and much of his administration believes in tariffs as an economic policy. We've all heard Donald Trump say, tariff is the most beautiful word in the English language.

And I do think the business community. So, look, look, we we had the stock market plummeted. We saw massive losses in the stock market. We may well see more massive losses than the stock market. I think the business community was shocked by the magnitude of these community of these tariffs, by the breadth of them.

Look, as we talked about in our earlier podcast on tariffs, what I've urged the president is two things. Number one, focus on China, because delinking our economy from China is emphatically in America's national security interest and economic security interest. And number two, focus on reciprocity. And the reason I've said focus on reciprocity is the upside scenario I just talked about.

which is by focusing on reciprocity, if you incentivize other countries to lower their tariffs and we lower ours, that's a win-win for America. But the thing to understand, I believe the business community has systematically underestimated

How much President Trump and the Trump administration views tariffs as an ongoing, permanent feature of our economic policy? I can tell you virtually every time I talk with the president, I talk with the president frequently. He goes on at length. Have you seen the billions of dollars, the hundreds of billions of dollars, the trillions of dollars we are raising and are going to raise from tariffs? Now, I think a lot of people said, oh, he's going to threaten these tariffs, but he's going to lift them very quickly.

If he does that, great. If he leaves them in place and we just have constant tariffs, that is a massive tax increase on the American people.

And I think many people are underestimating that the president believes and many members of his administration believe that tariffs are just a fabulous feature of the American economy. They harken back to William McKinley when he was president. Now, look, we used to have before the income tax, tariffs were the main source of revenue for the federal government. And they want to go back to that scenario.

And I got to say, we're going to find out because, listen, President Trump believes in this. I think in the first term he wanted to to impose policies like this. And I think many Republican senators talked him out of it, pressed him back and said, look, they're real risk. Don't do this. I think in the second term, Trump feels unchained. He feels unburdened. He's like, screw it. Let's go.

And he believes that I do. By the way, that's where the threat could actually work. Right. Because every other country is looking at this saying, hey, like this is surely he's not going to do it. He does it like he's going to flinch quickly. There's no indication he's going to flinch per se quickly. Right. I think the real threat of it is the fact that he's actually willing to go through with it. Look, I want this to succeed. I want it to succeed. But my definition of succeed may be different than the White House's.

My definition of succeed is dramatically lower tariffs abroad and result in dramatically lowering tariffs here. That's success for the American workers, American businesses, American growth, American prosperity. That's a great outcome. But look, I think we're going to find out. A hundred years ago, the U.S. economy didn't have the leverage to have the kind of impact we do now. But

I worry there are voices within the administration that want to see these tariffs continue forever and ever and ever. They don't want to lower them. They think they're great. And what is particularly, I think, has startled some observers, it wasn't just directed at China. It wasn't just directed at bad actors. It was directed against everybody there.

That is, the breadth of it is enormous, and it carries upside, but it also carries real risk. All right, let's talk timeline and your definition of short-term or long-term. What does that timeline look like?

because obviously people are trying to figure out weathering the storm, right? You talked about supply chain and the car is a great example. You don't feel the pain till let's say June. All right. So it gives us a few months for things to kind of work its way through, work it out. Is that a timeline of short term? And then after that it's, it's, it's considered, all right, this is longterm. What is that timeline in your opinion? Well, let's be clear. The timeline was immediate. So, so, so let me read from, from the wall street journal. Uh,

headline, Trump tariffs send Dow to a 1600 point decline, dollar slumps, Asian stocks hit for a second day, fears of recession rise. And here's what the Wall Street Journal reports, quote,

U.S. markets suffer their steepest decline since 2020 on fears President Trump's new tariffs plan will trigger a global trade war and drag the U.S. economy into recession. Major stock indexes dropped as much as 6% on Thursday. Stocks lost roughly $3.1 trillion in market value, their largest one-day decline since March 2020. Stock index futures drifted lower Thursday evening, and stocks in Japan were hit for a second day as Friday training began.

In Thursday's market plunge, the Dow Industrials dropped 16, 179 points or 4%. The tech-heavy NAGSTEC, which powered the market higher for years, was down 6%, pulled lower by big declines in NVIDIA, Apple, and Amazon.com. The S&P 500, which fell 4.8%, and the other benchmarks suffered their sharpest decline since the

early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. The dollar, meanwhile, tumbled with the Wall Street Journal dollar index suffering its sharpest decline since 2023. Now, those are immediate hits and understand, look, it's easy to say, okay, fine, you know, that's just rich people. Look, at this point, a majority of Americans have money invested in 401ks and IRAs, and so that's impacting everyone.

And people don't necessarily follow their 401k on a daily basis. Many people see their 401k statement when it comes out at the end of the quarter. A whole lot of people are looking at that, and we'll see if that's a temporary one-day hit. But if it continues to slide over the next few days, that's not waiting for six months to see the impact. That's freaking people out now. And so the consequences of this are real. And I want to be clear about something. Look, it's...

It used to be conventional wisdom in Republican politics that free trade is wonderful and we should just have no tariffs and lower tariffs. And that was almost everyone. Can I ask you a this is a question I'm just going to ask it because I know there's people listening. They want to know what the definition your definition of free trade is. That used to be conventional wisdom.

And I want to give Donald Trump credit for something really significant, which is he's changed the debate on trade fundamentally. And so I believe in free trade, but I also believe in fair trade. And so when I talk about reciprocity, Donald Trump has made a very clear point. It's a powerful point, which is many countries on Earth have been taking advantage of the United States and have been imposing really high tariffs and barriers to U.S. goods,

while having free access to the American markets. And that is unfair. And so I love that President Trump is willing to use leverage to lower tariffs. I think that's great. And that really is a change in the debate. Ten years ago, there was nobody in the Republican Party making that argument. And that is the direct result of President Trump's leadership. That's a good thing.

saying we should be treated fairly, that is a good thing. That is a very different proposition from saying it doesn't matter if other countries lower their tariffs, we're going to impose tariffs on everybody because we think tariffs should be the principal vehicle of funding the economy. If the outcome of this is a multi-trillion dollar tax increase on American consumers, I think that that is really consequential and really harmful.

So let me ask you one other question, and that is, if these tariffs don't change, Senator, then what would the impact be? Well, let me share an analysis that a group called the Tax Foundation did. Now, the Tax Foundation is a think tank based in Washington. They're very good. They're economic experts. They analyze tax policies. They have proven to be incredibly accurate in terms of measuring the impact of taxes.

Here's what the Tax Foundation has assessed from the announcement this week. They say if these stay in effect, the average tariff rate on all imports will rise from 2.5% in 2024 to 18.8%, the highest average rate since 1933 under the tariffs announced for 2025. The consequence of those tariffs, they will cause imports to fall significantly.

by slightly more than $900 billion in 2025, or 28%. So that's what they're predicting is that imports drop $900 billion, 28% this year. They also say the newly announced tariffs on April 2nd will raise $1.8 trillion in revenue over the next decade and will shrink U.S. GDP by 0.5%.

The April 2nd escalation, they note, comes in addition to the previously announced tariffs, which will raise another $1.3 trillion in revenue over the next decade and shrink U.S. GDP by 0.3%. Altogether, Trump's tariffs will raise nearly $3.2 trillion in revenue over the next decade and reduce U.S. GDP by 0.8%.

They further project the tariffs will reduce after-tax income by an average of 2.1% and amount to an average tax increase of more than $2,100 per U.S. household in 2025. Now, to be clear, that's a prediction if these tariffs stay in place, if they don't change.

If the upside that I described happens, if foreign countries slash their tariffs and Trump in turn slash these tariffs, none of those numbers hold. Instead, I think we see an enormous economic boom. But if that doesn't happen, if these tariffs stay in place as an ongoing economic policy, we're facing very real and I think very detrimental consequences.

As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz. Ben Ferguson with you. Don't forget to download my podcast and you can listen to my podcast every other day you're not listening to Verdict or each day when you listen to Verdict afterwards. I'd love to have you as a listener to, again, the Ben Ferguson podcast. And we will see you back here on Monday morning. I was in Whole Foods the other day looking for a fun little bevy to go with my lunch. And I found my new obsession. SunSip is a gut-healthy soda from HealthAid.

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I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break Podcast, a real conversation about finance.

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have to revisit that. And we're not stopping at success stories. What happens when it doesn't go right? How do you cope with it? Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.