Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
It's Wednesday, May 7th. I'm Jane Koston, and this is What A Day, the show that, like the Trump administration, has not held any tariff negotiations with the Chinese government. Honestly, the similarities between me and the Trump administration on this front are almost scary. Neither of us have any idea what we're doing, but both of us are really good at coming up with weird explanations for that.
On today's show, the Supreme Court lets President Donald Trump's ban on trans troops take effect, for now. And Trump has an awkward Oval Office sit-down with Canada's Prime Minister. But let's start with Elon Musk. Remember him? The world's richest man, and depending on whom you ask, the perceived head of the Department of Government Efficiency is taking a big step back from his role in the federal government.
Though, based on his continuous Fox News interviews, he will be sticking to his role of talking a lot about how the sun will eventually incinerate the Earth, so that's why we all have to move to Mars.
Yes, that is a real thing he really discussed with Fox News host Jesse Waters, as one does. So eventually all life on Earth will be destroyed by the sun. The sun is gradually expanding. And so we do at some point need to be a multi-planet civilization because Earth will be incinerated. I'm hearing this for the first time. No one's ever told me the sun is going to burn Earth.
I'm not disagreeing with it. I'm just saying I didn't know this was our destiny, to get roasted by the sun. Yes, and I don't think there's anyone who would disagree with that. Riveting and normal as always. Elon is stepping away at what one could delicately call a
difficult time for his popularity, both as a political figure and as a guy who runs a car company. As a political figure, most Americans disapprove of his handling of the Department of Government Efficiency. According to a Washington Post-ABC News poll released last week, 57% of Americans disapprove of Musk and Doge. And support for Musk is down by double digits among pretty much all demographics, including independents, adults under 30, and people without college degrees.
In Georgia, a red state, a survey performed by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution found that nearly 60% of registered voters disapproved of Elon playing a major role in the federal government. And then there's Tesla, Musk's car company. Sales of Teslas in Britain and Germany have dropped by about half, which Business Insider argued, quote, "...could partly be attributed to political tensions tied to Elon Musk's divisive role in the Trump administration and advocacy for right-wing European parties."
To LDR, people who might ordinarily be interested in an EV probably don't want to buy one from a guy who has never found a far-right European political movement he wasn't an awkward fanboy for. And in America, Tesla sales have experienced their largest decline in the company's history. The Cybertruck, or as I think of it, what would happen if you could drive Home Depot's cheapest stainless steel refrigerator, has been such a flop that the company is sitting on thousands of unsold vehicles, and Tesla dealers are refusing to accept trade-ins.
But let's be real here. Elon is still the richest man on earth. And the Department of Government Efficiency really did put multiple government agencies and the careers of tens of thousands of government employees into a metaphorical woodchipper. So what did Elon Musk's time in power actually mean for Americans? To find out, I talked to Brian Barrett, executive editor of news for Wired Magazine. Brian, welcome to What Today. Jane, thanks so much for having me.
So as Musk prepares to step back from taking his chainsaw to the federal government, how would you rate his tenure? Now, granted, it will be a failure to me, but would it be a success to someone else? Or is it too soon to tell? You know, I think what's interesting is, yeah, who is it a success for? I think you could say probably not for Elon Musk in a lot of ways, at least not yet, because he has...
lost billions of dollars in value in Tesla. Most of his money is wrapped up in Tesla stock, and that's in the tank, tied a lot to his performance there. I think the people who are winning are the sort of people who had these like preset agendas. And I think everyone else, I would rate it personally pretty poorly, given that he's dismantled so much of the federal government in such a short amount of time.
On the failure side, Musk came in promising to slash like $2 trillion from the federal budget. And there was talk, and you hear people talking about this still, people talking about getting Doge savings checks at one point. Like that was a real thing people were talking about.
Those projected savings were eventually downsized to $1 trillion and then to just $150 billion, which is still a ton of money, but in government spending terms, not that much. So why did cutting government spending prove to be so difficult? Is it because a lot of government spending is on stuff people really like?
Yeah, I think that's exactly it. So much of what the government spends money on are those programs, Social Security, Medicaid, things that people really care about and that are sort of third rails that nobody can really touch, especially not Elon Musk. So all of it becomes this sort of performative but very destructive process where you're sort of saving, you know, a hundred however many billion dollars, but
But the amount that then they're spending to defend the court cases of all these people rightly suing against that, the opportunity cost of cutting so much scientific research out of the federal government budget that we're going to be feeling for decades as a country falling behind on cancer research, falling behind on all kinds of things that we can't really afford to. So I think we're going to be we're going to look back at this as being a time where we lost way more than we than we saved.
And I think it's worth even asking, do we even know if the $150 billion is an accurate figure? Because there were tons of stories by some great reporters about how they were basically counting programs that had already been cut and not exactly that, you know, they haven't been really transparent about their activities. Yeah, it's every few weeks, it seems like they either get called out for having inaccurate numbers or
They have to, you know, they change the calculations themselves. Again, they're not including what it's actually costing also to employ all of these doge people. A lot of these doge people are bringing in six-figure salaries, which again, a drop in the bucket compared to the government budget. But all of that counts, right? I think there's no real accounting of what specifically they've saved and what
And again, what that's going to cost in the long run, how much is the U.S. going to spend now that USAID is dismantled? How much is the U.S. going to have to spend in the long run in national security in regions where we used to have a stronger presence and now we've kind of disappeared? Yeah, I think it's a sort of a total farce.
Let's talk about like the personal cost to Musk of his tenure at Doge. You've mentioned the sales of Teslas have plummeted in the US and Europe. Buying one now is kind of a political statement, which is not something you want if you run a car company. I was just thinking about how like, I don't know who the CEO of Toyota is. And I think that that's probably for the best for Toyota. So how has his personal brand suffered as a result of Doge?
Yeah, I think that his personal brand has suffered a lot, especially as you see the impacts of what Doge has done start to hit people. They are associating Elon Musk with all of this very unpopular activity that's going on. And so you're seeing that reflected in driving around a Cybertruck is a big statement. Buying a Cybertruck is a big statement.
that a lot of people don't want to make right now. And I think it's going to be hard to come back from that. Even if he's stepping away from the government, I think the damage is done. I think that people know what he thinks. He still tells people what he thinks on Twitter or X every day, dozens of times a day. So it's become this sort of toxic brand personally and that reflects across his businesses. Brian, it is still Twitter in this dojo. You don't need to worry about it. Thank you.
But Musk did manage to help Republicans do something they fantasized about for decades, which is slashing the federal workforce. His minions helped to get USAID, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. And I think he gave Republicans a foil so that like they can be like Elon did that. We didn't do it. Elon did it. So by that measure, it would seem that Doge has been a success for Republicans. Maybe not for Elon Musk. Definitely not for you and me, but for Republicans, right?
I think it has in terms of achieving their objectives. I think, again, a lot of what Doge has done lines up with what Project 2025 set out to do. But they're still going to have to own the consequences of it. I think that in the near term, you're going to have people who
It's going to take a lot longer for them to get on the phone with someone at the Social Security Administration, right? And I think that they know why that is. In the longer term, you're going to have people who they're unable to get access to certain medical treatment that they may have been hoping for. The problem is going to be where some of the stuff that's going to happen, I think some of the effects we're going to feel are going to be so far down the line that they're going to feel detached from dose. And they're going to be sort of a little bit abstract in terms of the day-to-day. Like, I feel like a lot of people aren't sitting around saying like,
You know, how come that latest cancer trial didn't go all the way? But it is that opportunity cost. So I don't know. I think I think we're going to they're going to feel it a little bit day to day. And I think the country as a whole is going to feel it a lot in the next few years.
Maybe more on the personal success front, Musk's many, many companies are deeply intertwined with the government. Some rely on billions in government contracts, and some of those agencies were investigating Musk's companies or they'd sued or fined them. So on that front, given that some of those agencies don't really exist anymore, how was he able to personally benefit from his time working in the government? I think the important thing to remember, which I keep sort of trying to remind people in our reporting too, is that just because Musk is gone doesn't mean that
he's no longer involved or he doesn't have people there to help. So we've got, you know, dozens of employees who have been associated with SpaceX, with X, with Tesla, who are now sort of spread out across these very key agencies, still looking for things and potentially looking for ways to benefit Elon Musk's companies. I think that he's got a lot of long-term potential benefits, even just in terms of having people inside the FAA from SpaceX. Uh,
FEA regulates SpaceX and regulates Elon Musk's very lucrative satellite industry. They're in a position now to sort of, you know, the next time the next contracts come up, the next time there's a procurement process, I think he clearly has the pole position, whether he's in the government or not. And Doge has also been able to tap into some of the most sensitive and valuable data in the world. What are the long-term ripple effects of that access going to be, I ask, horrified?
I'll tell you that I'm currently horrified about the near-term aspects because what we know they're already doing is looking for ways to combine this data to make it easier to identify and surveil immigrants in the United States and to make it easier to deport them. We've already seen the Justice Department credit Doge for giving an assist to an arrest in an immigration case a couple weeks ago. So that's a concrete example of how it's being used. I think long-term,
Once you bring all this data together that is supposed to be in different places because it is so sensitive, because combining it gives you way more information about someone than any agency needs to have, it's a lot harder to uncombine it, right? It's sort of the toothpaste back in the tube situation. So especially when like
Again, these are people who come from private industry that are very data dependent. They're going to go back to that private industry when their terms of government are done. It is a sort of a privacy nightmare in action that I don't see slowing down. And I think it's going to have long-term effects that we can't really reverse.
And let's be clear here, Musk isn't disappearing into the ether, sadly. Doge will still also exist without Musk's daily involvement. So where will it turn its sights to next? I've seen some worries about the Security and Exchange Commission. What do you think? I don't think there's any agency that's going to be immune from Doge. I think based on what we've seen, they've really focused on spreading out progressively. What we know they're doing is
in the immediate term, is working on this visa project, right? This sort of $5 million gets you a U.S. visa, the golden visa that Trump has been working on. That's Doge. And that's not necessarily a place you'd expect them to show up. But I think that's as indicative of any place that there is data, that there are technical processes, they are going to find their way into it. They've got this mandate that is as wide as the government. So I wouldn't expect to see
I wouldn't be surprised to see them pretty much anywhere. Brian, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much, Jane. That was my conversation with Brian Barrett, executive editor of news for Wired Magazine. We'll link to his work in our show notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube so you can see Elon be weird about the sun, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a Day is brought to you by Books.
Mother's Day is almost here, and I've been thinking about all the times my mom went out of her way just to make me happy. Honestly, I've lost count. My mom is a flower sender. She's a care package sender. She is somebody that is always sending me pictures on her phone if something reminds her of me. Sometimes I don't quite get it, but that's moms. Now that I've got kids of my own,
I get it. And I know that when they are older and they don't live with me anymore, I too will be spamming them with photos of things that remind me of them that they have forgotten about. My mom does everything to make me happy, so I'm returning the favor. This year, I'm sending happy flowers for a happy Mother's Day from the Books Company, short for bouquets.
And I got you 25% off your order so you can send some happy too. Books aren't just flowers. Their flowers are cut fresh from the best farms. So they're bigger, brighter, and last way longer. Some even grow on the side of a volcano. Wow mom with a bright, happy bouquet or go for the books flower subscription. So she gets fresh blooms and major joy on repeat. I did this for my mom a couple of years ago and I got to say,
There's three of us in my family, and I'm pretty sure I'm still her favorite one. So I'll let you guys know after this Mother's Day how that's going. It's easy. I pick my bouquet and delivery date, and I'm already done. And with 25% off, why stop with mom? Grab some for your wife, aunt, and grandma too. Look, guys, you can't forget mom. Mother's Day is May 11th. Order your books now. Go to books.com. Use my promo code WAD for 25% off. That's B-O-U-Q-S.com, promo code WAD, books, promo code WAD.
Amazon One Medical presents Painful Thoughts. Do they ever actually clean the ball pit at these kids' play gyms? Or is my kid just swimming in a vat of bacteria, catching whatever cootie of the day is breeding in there? A cootie that'll probably take down our whole family. Luckily, with Amazon One Medical 24-7 virtual care, you can get checked out for whatever ball pit-itis you've contracted. Amazon One Medical. Healthcare just got less painful.
Here's what else we're following today. Headlines.
As you know from real estate, there are some places that are never for sale. That's true. We're sitting in one right now, Buckingham Palace, that you visited as well. That's true. And having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign last several months, it's not for sale, won't be for sale ever.
Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney met with President Trump at the White House Tuesday. The two spoke to reporters in the Oval Office. Topics of discussion included Trump's interest in annexing Canada and making it America's 51st state. You just heard Carney say that will never happen. Of course, Trump had to follow up with... But never say never. Never say never. I'm saying never. Never.
Carney and Trump also shared a tense exchange about Trump's tariff war that has strained U.S.-Canada trade relations. Trump was asked if there was anything Carney could say during their meeting that would get him to lift his tariffs on Canadian goods. His answer was a big, fat, No, just the way it is. Trump was also asked what concession he wants most out of Canada when negotiating a trade deal, to which he said, Friendship.
Girls, same.
Carney's visit to Washington comes after he led Canada's Liberal Party to victory last week in the country's election. Carney's campaign was built on an anti-Trump message, something Trump alluded to in a super normal and not awkward way. I think I was probably the greatest thing that happened to him. If you're listening to this episode, I highly encourage you to head over to our YouTube channel to see the face Carney made here. I'd like to think it is the same face you'd make if Trump said he was probably the greatest thing that happened to you.
The Supreme Court will allow the Trump administration to start enforcing a ban on transgender troops in the military, for now. The court's emergency ruling Tuesday was unsigned, but the three liberal justices dissented. It's not the final decision in the case. The justices are just allowing the ban to go into effect while legal challenges play out. Lower courts had blocked the order. It's a big win for President Trump, who immediately started attacking trans rights when he returned to office.
In a January executive order calling for the ouster of trans troops, the White House said, quote,
Adoption of a gender identity inconsistent with an individual's sex conflicts with a soldier's commitment to an honorable, truthful, and disciplined lifestyle. I say, quote, fuck that. The case was filed by a group of trans service members and one trans person who hopes to enlist. They sued to block the ban on grounds it was insulting and violated the Constitution's Equal Protection Clause. One is a transgender Navy commander with nearly 20 years of service. She's flown more than 60 combat missions. In
In a statement, advocates for the service members called the decision a, quote, devastating blow. The Department of Justice on Monday asked a judge to dismiss a lawsuit seeking to limit access to the abortion drug Mifepristone. The lawsuit was brought by Idaho, Kansas, and Missouri after the Supreme Court ruled to preserve access to Mifepristone last year. They filed their lawsuit in Texas, likely because they wanted to find a sympathetic judge.
The GOP-led states sued the Food and Drug Administration, arguing that access to the drug, which was used in roughly two-thirds of all U.S. abortions in 2023, undermines their anti-abortion laws. But the DOJ says the states don't have legal standing to bring their case in Texas because their claims don't have any ties to the state. This is similar to the argument the Biden administration made last November when it sought to get this case thrown out.
But Monday's request doesn't mean the Trump administration is suddenly pro-choice or anything. The DOJ said the states can sue elsewhere, quote, "...in a district where venue is proper." Enforcement of Real ID at U.S. airports technically starts today. You know, that form of identification we've been hearing about for actual years? It sets minimum security standards for state-issued driver's licenses and identification cards.
But Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem told a congressional panel Tuesday that people who don't have a real ID yet should still be able to fly despite the deadline. Folks will come through the line and will issue their ID and show it. If it's not compliant, they may be diverted to a different line, have an extra step, but people will be allowed to fly.
Nome says 81% of people that travel by airline in the United States already have IDs that meet the requirements for a real ID, like passports or tribal IDs. Congress passed the Real ID Act 20 years ago after a recommendation from the 9-11 Commission. Enforcement has been repeatedly delayed over the years. The law was initially intended to take effect in 2008, when I was in college. Efficiency! Efficiency!
Real IDs will also be needed for access to certain federal facilities. To apply for a real ID, Homeland Security says people need to provide a social security number, proof of address, and proof of lawful status, among other things. And that's the news.
Before we go, hey, WOD fam, WODaday will be live at the Cascade PBS Ideas Festival on May 31st in downtown Seattle. That's the weekend after Memorial Day, for the record. I'll be interviewing former senator, comedian, and Saturday Night Live writer Al Franken, and it's a conversation you're not going to want to miss. The rest of the lineup at the festival includes guests like CNN anchor Jake Tapper, former Republican Senator Jeff Flake,
Washington's own Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, plus Amanda Knox and a ton of other live podcasts like Criminal and Radiolab. If you're in the area, come see us. You can get tickets and find out more at cascadepbs.org slash festival.
That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, and tell your friends to listen. And if you are into reading like me, What A Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at cricket.com slash subscribe. And finally, thank you to everyone for your kindness and patience during my absence over the last few weeks. As some of you may know, my mom died on April 18th after a long battle with ALS. It was a long battle.
It is by far the worst and stupidest thing that has ever happened to me and my family. They don't tell you that death is terrible and incredibly, incredibly dumb. But you guys, your DMs and emails and very kind comments have been so, so appreciated. I'm Jane Koston, and thank you.
Waterday is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fore. Our producer is Michelle Alloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gillyard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
Sitting through a lecture won't sharpen the people skills required to lead a company. That's why at UVA Darden, the moment you set foot on grounds, you're immersed in a dialogue-driven environment that simulates real-world business scenarios and calls for real leadership action. Our top-ranked faculty design a curriculum that empowers you to lead your peers, manage teams, and drive measurable results. Ranked the number one public business school in the country, Darden stands apart not just for what we teach, but how.
UVA Darden. Not business school as usual.
Know what tomorrow is? It's that day you do something. Monumental or seemingly inconsequential. Start a new job, leave an old one. A big date or a small gathering. Drinks with a new someone or simply to strut past an old flame. So celebrate in style. Step out and stack on. Flash a look of bold 14 karat gold. Layer that fit with a solitaire diamond drip. Whatever the reason, Jared Jewelers has the perfect on-trend way to show the world you did it. So
So tomorrow, you be the one who went to Jared.