In Trump vs Universities, Students Are Stuck In The Middle
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It's Thursday, May 1st. I'm Josie Duffy Rice, in for Jane Koston, and this is What a Day, the show that didn't know that President Donald Trump is joining the liberal war on Christmas. Somebody said, oh, the shelves are going to be open. Well, maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls, you know? And maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally. Daddy Warbucks says only two dolls for America's children.

And you know what? As someone who lives in a house with so many dolls everywhere all of the time with a four-year-old, I'm kind of for this two-doll thing. On today's show, Ukraine signs a minerals deal with the U.S. as Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent criticizes Russia's war. And the economy shows more signs of decline with first-quarter GDP numbers.

But first, let's start with Trump's war on college campuses. Many institutions find themselves copped up in an unwinnable fight. You either capitulate to the president's authoritarian-esque demands, or you lose millions or even billions in federal funding, including critical medical research dollars. Some schools, like Columbia, have already caved. Others have been more defiant. Harvard, for example, filed a lawsuit against the administration.

and others are trying to get out of his crosshairs while maintaining some autonomy.

But either way, for many institutions, the impact is not theoretical. Diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives are being shut down, campus protests are being curtailed, and the administration is threatening some of these institutions' tax-exempt status. Some of these policies, practices, and orders are being challenged, and sometimes overturned, in court. On Wednesday, a judge released Mohsen Madawi, a Palestinian student at Columbia University who protested against Israel's war in Gaza.

Earlier this month, immigration officials arrested him during an interview focused on finalizing his American citizenship. Madawi was greeted with cheers from hundreds of supporters when he walked out of a Vermont courthouse. He's a freak! And he sent a message to the White House. I am saying it clear and loud. Yes, yes.

to President Trump and his cabinet. I am not afraid of you. So who knows how long this assault on higher education will last. But either way, in just his first 100 days, Trump has managed to fundamentally reshape the relationship between the federal government and many of the nation's most revered universities. And while this could impact pretty much everyone — because we all need medical research, people —

Current college students are paying the immediate price. I spoke to Nathan Elias, editor-in-chief of Daily Trojan, the student newspaper at the University of Southern California, one of the many institutions that the administration seems intent on punishing. Nathan, welcome to What a Day. Thank you for having me. So USC made headlines last spring when nearly 100 students were arrested by the LAPD and later disciplined by the university for their involvement with a pro-Palestinian encampment on campus.

Now we're talking to you. It's been one year since that encampment was torn down. What do things look like now on campus at USC in terms of student activism, especially amid the new administration's effort to crack down on these kind of protests?

Yeah, so essentially it was about a year ago, I believe April 24th, when about 50 students were arrested, about 40 community members were arrested. And since that day, our campus has been locked down. So we already had gates around campus, but it was to the point now where each day you have to scan your ID to get inside. Or if you don't have like a student ID or like faculty ID, then you show your little government ID.

that legacy is still here. There are gates around Alumni Park where the protesters set up their first encampment. And there's just a greater sense of vigilance. It's kind of a regular thing for me to walk around and see our DPS, Department of Public Safety, they're kind of posted up around or they'll be biking or you see their car kind of posted up next to that Alumni Park area.

And because of that, there hasn't been as many protests in the campus itself. Now they'd be like protesting maybe outside of the gates. That's kind of their response to USC's ramping up of security.

And we're also seeing across the country, the Trump administration target international students, right, with its effort to deport students involved in these protests and other students as well. USC has a very large community of international students. What are you hearing from them? What are you seeing as they're kind of watching this crackdown happen? I believe we're about a quarter international students.

And so there's obviously like a very palpable feel, I mean, of people who may be participating in the protest, even people who aren't involved, because there is also an order that the Trump administration made to like give information on students that are Chinese nationals, for example. USC literally sent an email, multiple emails to international students saying, be careful about where you travel to. Think about what your summer plans are going to be. There is, I would say, palpable fear based on the uncertainty that the Trump administration is creating.

I think as it relates to visas being canceled, other schools would like, I believe they sent like all their students an email whenever they had a confirmed cases of that happening. USC has not informed the wider public and we've actually asked them multiple times and they wouldn't tell us either. I think palpable fear might be a way of describing it. Yeah, I'm also wondering about the grants. So the Trump administration more broadly has been

refusing to fund some medical research from the National Institute of Health or NIH. So what guidance has USC given students or researchers who kind of depend on that funding? And are you seeing any efforts to kind of close those funding gaps from the university?

So the thing about funding and the interaction with the Trump administration is even before Trump came into office, USC was already amid funding uncertainty and confusion. I think the biggest thing they cite is USC has been wrapped up in a couple lawsuits.

related to sexual abuse and things like that, that have totaled, I think, above $1 billion, essentially, that they've been having to pay out. There's like other costs that they said have been kind of hurting them. And so even before the Trump administration came into power, they had already asked different departments to kind of

wind down their own funding. But now that a lot of funding grants have came into question and USC relies on that funding, they've essentially tried to comply as much as possible, I think is the best way to describe it. They'll never describe it as that. And I actually interviewed our president, Carol Folt, and she stood firm in saying that they're not complying in advance. But in many ways, they've already kind of changed the wording and like, you know,

Maybe consolidated some DEI departments to kind of disguise them in terms of people's research that have been like paused or canceled. Some of my colleagues in the news section of the Daily Trojan have done some reporting on that related to like new medical grants, including even like humanities research that has been either canceled or paused.

I think the main idea there is very much just like watching what the Trump administration does and trying to comply as much as possible to avoid any more blows to our economy.

budget, which is already really limited, is at least what the president has been saying. Well, yeah, you brought up the DEI issue, which I was going to ask you about next, because Trump obviously has come for DEI programs, DEI language, and USC, like you mentioned, has sort of complied in some ways there, right? They removed the phrase DEI from its list of university values earlier this year. The president kind of instructed schools to get rid of their diversity programs.

And yet they're still being accused by the administration and others of being like too DEI friendly. Right. You know, you co-wrote this article in The Daily Trojan earlier this year about how Republican Senator Ted Cruz named USC on his list of universities that use federal funding for so-called woke DEI research projects. What are you hearing about that on campus? And do you think that the school has really abandoned that as a value? How are you kind of seeing it as a student?

Definitely administration is trying to do its best to walk a really thin tightrope of, they've stated in the past that DEI is a value of theirs. And so there's a large group of the community and students and et cetera that are counting on them to continue to uphold that value. But again, with their budget situation, they don't want to do anything that makes them a further target. But as students, it does really feel like, like that's what I'm hearing, that USC is essentially folded to the Trump administration in many ways.

And even though we haven't been one of the schools yet to have like this, like hundreds of millions of dollars be targeted, like, you know, Harvard, Columbia, I believe it was our provost who recently had a meeting with faculty and he said, it's very likely that USC might lose or is at risk of losing hundreds of millions of dollars. There's not necessarily much hope at the moment that USC will not fold to these demands. Right, right.

And out of curiosity, what projects is Senator Cruz referring to when he says, like, woke DEI research projects? What's he talking about? I remember as we were reaching out to the people who were listed as, like, the principal investigators or, like, the main researchers, they were very confused. Because essentially it would be that they were doing research on, like, maybe, like, a recyclable material, but, like, let's say it says the word environment. Or, like, research for a specific thing, but they have a statement that says, you know, we...

search for researchers of like marginalized backgrounds or something like that so they kind of felt shocked that they were targeted on that list but they also at the time they felt that kind of confident that they wouldn't have any further action taken against them but it was kind of that initial shock of like I'm studying like recycled carbon fibers for like

planes or something like that. Most people would not call woke, right? Yeah, yeah. So just from your perspective as a student, the attention that college campuses have gotten in American media kind of more broadly over the past decade,

year plus is just virtually unprecedented. It's just so such an onslaught. And now we're seeing that onslaught continue with the Trump administration's crackdown on campuses. What's this like for you as a student? How are you kind of taking all of this in? What's it been like watching this from the front row?

College is just always been something in my mind, especially like as my parents are like saying, oh, you know, college education is very important. It's always been built up as like this is the center of, you know, research and social mobility in many ways. It's where students are researching and kind of putting these ideas into practice, maybe sometimes for the first time or like

in a real way more than ever before. So when things like protests happens, like colleges are the center because students have that opportunity to use it towards whatever they think is most important. And at the same time, again, we're the center of like research that's very important for a lot of people. Like USC has like a deep medical portfolio of hospitals. It's very much an important facet of, I think, society. And so, yeah.

In that sense, I'm not surprised that we have again become like a center of the national conversation, but it is definitely at times concerning like what implications does this have? Like,

For example, when or if our school ends up being targeted and they publish the number of how many millions of dollars are under threat, does that mean our newspaper can't hire any more people? Can we even print? Does that mean cultural organizations and their cultural centers on campus, their physical office spaces, can they still exist? Who else is going to get fired? So it's like the duality of like,

Of course, a college is going to be the center of this discussion, but this has real impacts on people. Absolutely. Nathan, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you. That was my conversation with Nathan Elias, editor-in-chief of Daily Trojan, the University of Southern California student newspaper. We'll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads.

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After weeks of insisting that there was absolutely nothing the U.S. could do to bring back a man that they wrongfully deported to El Salvador, President Donald Trump admitted that he actually does have the power to make it happen. He just won't.

He did so in an interview to mark his first 100 days back in office that he did with ABC News senior national correspondent Terry Moran that aired Tuesday. But Trump also said bringing back the deported man, Kilmar Abrego-Garcia, is not up to him. The most powerful man in the world, not to mention within his own administration. You know, make it make sense.

I'm not the one making this decision. We have lawyers that don't want to do this. But the buck stops in his office. No, no, no, no. I follow the law. You want me to follow the law? If I were the president that just wanted to do anything, I'd probably keep him right where he is. The Supreme Court says what the law is. Truly incredible to hear this man say, I follow the law. Just...

Couldn't write this if I tried. And who is making the decisions then? If it's not him, who are these lawyers that don't want to do that? Who's he talking about? Trump also notably derailed the interview at one point by wrongly insisting that Abrego Garcia literally had the gang name MS-13 tattooed on his knuckles.

which he does not. It says MS-13. That was Photoshopped. That was Photoshopped, Terry. You can't do that. Hey, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime. You know, you're doing the interview. I picked you because, frankly, I never heard of you, but that's okay. I picked you, Terry, but you're not being very nice. He had MS-13 tattooed. We'll agree to disagree.

It's possible Trump was referring to a photo that he posted earlier this month on Truth Social that shows Abrego Garcia's finger tattoos with MS-13 very clearly, like, typed digitally above them. For the record, he does have symbols tattooed on his knuckles, but they don't literally say MS-13 in, like, a Times New Roman-esque font. The White House insists that Abrego Garcia is a member of MS-13, but he and his family have repeatedly denied that.

While that exchange is obviously ridiculous, Trump's earlier admission is more notable because it directly contradicts what the White House is currently arguing in court, that returning Abrego Garcia, who was deported in a, quote, administrative error, is up to El Salvador.

Today's agreement signals clearly to Russian leadership that the Trump administration is committed to a peace process centered on a free, sovereign and prosperous Ukraine over the long term. It's time for this cruel and senseless war to end. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant announced Wednesday that the U.S. and Ukraine signed an economic partnership agreement.

President Trump had been urging Kiev for weeks to make a deal involving access to Ukraine's natural resources as repayment for U.S. aid to Ukraine to fend off Russia. The Treasury Department said in a statement that under the newly minted United States-Ukraine Reconstruction Investment Fund, the two countries will, quote, "...work collaboratively and invest together to ensure that our mutual assets, talents, and capabilities can accelerate Ukraine's economic recovery."

Ukraine's economy minister said on Twitter that the deal sends a signal to global partners that long-term cooperation with Ukraine over decades is not only possible, but reliable. The agreement comes after a disastrous Oval Office meeting in February between Trump, Vice President J.D. Vance, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that left much of the world wondering which side the U.S. was actually on. In the last few days, Trump has criticized Russia for its recent strikes on Ukraine.

This was the best negative print, as they say in the trade, for GDP I have ever seen in my life. It really should be very positive news for America. Just an incredible, incredible way to spend the shrinking U.S. economy, Peter Navarro. It makes sense that you're a trade advisor to the president.

The real gross domestic product, or GDP, decreased for the first time in three years during the first quarter of 2025. That's according to the advance estimate released by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis on Wednesday. President Trump commented on the numbers during a cabinet meeting. You probably saw some numbers today. And I have to start off by saying that's Biden. That's not Trump because we came in on January 1st.

The Commerce Department says the decrease in real GDP from January through March primarily reflects, quote, an increase in imports and a, quote, decrease in government spending. This comes after real GDP increased during the final months of the Biden administration. But economists say the GDP report might not be a full reflection of the state of our economic growth, especially because we saw a surge in imports as companies hurried to get ahead of President Trump's major tariffs announcement in April.

In a case that could reshape a fundamental constitutional principle, the separation of church and state, the Supreme Court seems likely to let states use taxpayer money to fund religious public charter schools.

The justices heard arguments Wednesday in a case out of Oklahoma. At issue is whether the First Amendment allows or potentially even requires states to fund such schools. The case is also noteworthy because it pits conservatives against conservatives. In one corner, you've got attorneys for St. Isidore of Seville Catholic Virtual School, which applied for charter status.

The Trump administration is siding with them. In the other corner is the office of Oklahoma's Republican Attorney General, who sued to block the school from receiving that funding. The court's most conservative justices seemed ready to side with the Catholic school. Justice Brett Kavanaugh in particular seemed pretty much all in. When you have a program that's open to all comers except religion, no, we can't do that. We can do everything else. That is...

seems like rank discrimination against religion.

The court's three liberals appeared ready to side with Oklahoma's attorney general. Justice Amy Coney Barrett recused herself from the case, though she didn't really give a reason. And that would seem to leave Chief Justice John Roberts with the deciding vote, meaning the case could end in a tie. A 4-4 split would leave in place an Oklahoma State Supreme Court decision ruling that found funding the school to be unlawful. The Supreme Court is likely to issue its final ruling in the case in June. And that's the news. ♪

Before we go, let's look overseas on what's happening across the pond. This week on Pod Save the UK, the UK Supreme Court just ruled that the legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, a chilling win for the anti-trans movement.

Trans campaigner and author Ellen Jones joins hosts Nish and Coco to break down how they got here, what J.K. Rowling has to do with it, and what allies can actually do to support the trans community right now. Plus, with Australia heading to the polls, Nish talks to former Deputy Prime Minister Wayne Swan about what the U.S. and U.K. can learn from Australia's voting system and why the Commonwealth might matter more than ever in the Trump era. Listen to this episode now on the Pod Save the U.K. YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcasts.

That is all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, hoard some Christmas presents for the kids in your life, and tell your friends to listen. And if you are into reading and not just tips and tricks on how to grow a tariff victory garden like me, What A Day is also a nightly newsletter, so check it out and subscribe at Cricut.com slash subscribe. I'm Josie Duffy Rice, and maybe we'll get used to the taste of gruel.

Waterday is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fore. Our producer is Michelle Alloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gillyard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.