Is ICE Only Arresting Criminal Migrants?
20:29 Share

It's Thursday, January 30th. I'm Jane Koston, and this is What A Day, the show telling you to hide your roadkill because we're recapping the RFK Jr. confirmation hearings. On today's show, former New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez receives a sentencing for those gold bars, and the Trump administration's federal funding freeze is in flux. But let's start with immigration because there's a lot to cover.

On Wednesday, President Donald Trump signed the Lake and Riley Act, which requires that undocumented immigrants who are accused, not convicted, of committing a crime, whether it's violent or not, be detained. The bill got bipartisan support, including from Democrats in swing districts. And Trump got to do two of his favorite things, take a victory lap and denigrate some immigrants. They come from all over the world. They come from every continent. They

And they came here by plane and they were loaded onto buses and they were driven right up to our border and they drove right through the border and nobody even said a word to them. And in those buses and those cars and those trucks were some of the meanest criminals anywhere in the world. He also did his third favorite thing, make a big announcement that seems like a massive deal but raises a bunch of questions that he will never, ever answer.

In this case, he announced plans to sign an executive order to send migrants to a detention center in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Most people don't even know about it. We have 30,000 beds in Guantanamo to detain the worst criminal illegal aliens threatening the American people. Some of them are so bad we don't even trust the countries to hold them.

because we don't want them coming back, so we're going to send them out to Guantanamo. All of this is taking place while the Trump administration is coordinating immigration raids in cities across the country. According to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, at least 4,800 arrests have taken place since Inauguration Day. For comparison's sake, in September 2024, the Biden administration arrested around 282 people per day.

There's a new quota system for ICE. According to the Washington Post, ICE's field offices were told to meet a quota of roughly 1,200 to 1,500 arrests per day. And real communities are bearing the brunt of the fear and confusion that such raids can create. I mean, when Native American folks are getting swept up by ICE, I think I can state, that's not great. I mean,

Many have been visited by ICE or any other law enforcement officials, either at their apartment homes, their homes, or even at their places of work. So right now there's a lot of frustration happening here on the Navajo Nation on how to address this. So to try and figure out what is actually going on with ICE and the Trump administration right now, I called up Michelle Hackman. She's a reporter at The Wall Street Journal with a focus on U.S. immigration policy. Michelle, welcome to What A Day.

Thanks for having me. So who are the people being targeted in these raids we keep seeing on TV? Were these people known to ICE before Trump took office?

So as far as we know, ICE is working off what they call target lists that have been developed mostly previous to the Trump administration even taking office. And as far as we know, they are primarily still actually trying to go after people with some kind of criminal history. They're defining that pretty broadly, but we haven't seen any kind of like really broad neighborhood sweeps that are kind of people's worst nightmares. Does arrest mean automatic deportation?

No, because when someone's arrested, ICE has to then make a determination, is that person deportable? And if they're not, they're not going to really waste a detention space on them. They have pretty limited space in detention right now. And in a lot of cases, someone, you know, depending on their home country or where they are sort of in the immigration process, they either might not have a final order of removal or they might be from a country that just won't take them back. And in that case, ICE typically just releases somebody.

There was an interesting exchange during Tuesday's White House press briefing where Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt was asked by a reporter about the arrests. Let's take a quick listen. Of the 3,500 arrests ICE has made so far since President Trump came back into office, can you just tell us the numbers? How many have a criminal record versus those who are just in the country illegally? All of them because they illegally broke our nation's laws and therefore they are criminals as far as this administration goes.

So in the eyes of this administration, are we to understand that they're defining criminal as anyone who is here illegally and not someone who has committed crimes in addition to being here illegally? I think we've seen a lot of mixed messaging from this administration on that point, which is really interesting. Shocking news. Right. I think what's happened is that Trump obviously campaigned on this huge,

huge. I mean, he was saying he wanted to deport 15 or 20 million people. And right after the election, we saw officials around Trump and even Trump to some extent narrowing the scope of what he was promising. And so they said things like, you know, we're going to go for the worst of the worst first. We're going to go for

criminals. And that was actually their way of saying, like, we need to be realistic here. We need to go for, like, numbers of people that we can actually promise that we'll deport. And that's more like the hundreds of thousands. And then what's happened since then is that they have started targeting criminals. The numbers of arrests haven't, you know, in the view of their supporters, been high enough. And so they've almost been getting flack and reversing course. And that's why you're now hearing them say, well, anyone's a criminal.

And now Trump also says he wants to put as many as 30,000 migrants in a detention facility at Guantanamo Bay. Now, Trump says a lot of things, but how realistic is that?

Guantanamo Bay, obviously, you know, most well known for being a prison, but it has also functioned as a migrant detention center since at least the 1980s. There was a really famous incident where we held thousands of Haitians there, sometimes indefinitely. And so it's possible and it's something that's relatively easy. I don't know how easy it is to scale up to 30,000 people. I think that's something that we still have to report on. But some of the infrastructure is there.

The Trump administration wants us to believe, you were mentioning this, that they are really cracking down on illegal immigration. And to some extent, it's true that they are. But how does what we're seeing compare to what Biden and Obama did when they were president? I was just looking at some of Biden's deportation numbers and they were really high. So is this meaningfully different or are they just doing it on television wearing fancy jackets?

I think there's a little bit of A, a little bit of B, especially in the first few days when you saw ICE under Trump sort of basically conducting business as usual. They attempted to dress it up and make it look different by putting, again, those ICE agents on TV, sending out Dr. Phil with ICE agents in Chicago. And since then, I think it's like the way I would describe it is ICE's activities haven't yet

significantly changed in kind, but they have in pace. You know, they're forcing ICE agents to work overtime. They have people out 24-7 in a way that maybe isn't always the case. So things are definitely speeding up.

The Trump administration has said it wants to implement quotas on arrests of migrants from a few hundred a day to as many as 1,500. What would that all mean in terms of who would be targeted for deportation? Because whenever I hear quotas for an agency that is supposed to be enforcing anything, I just keep thinking of like tickets from cops where they just start pulling over everybody, essentially.

Right. And that's, again, the fear here that is that, you know, former ICE officials have said ICE rarely has quotas. It's not a great system, you know, when you're trying to especially go for, like, quality just over quantity. And so the fear is that they're going to start arresting a lot more people who, you know, have done nothing other than enter the country illegally or maybe overstay a visa or something, because typically those people are much easier

easier to find an arrest than someone who has some kind of a criminal history, especially someone with a serious criminal history that sort of knows how to evade law enforcement.

So the administration is also promising to do raids in three cities each week. But it's kind of an open secret that farms, poultry factories and businesses in parts of the country that supported Trump also rely heavily on labor from undocumented workers. It's not just a blue liberal city thing. So to what extent does the administration acknowledge that? And are they willing to upset their own voters in pursuit of carrying out their plans for mass deportations?

It's a really interesting question, and I don't think we fully have the answer yet. You know, outwardly, I think they would say all people here illegally are on the table and we're not going to discriminate. I do think to some extent there are two things going on. One is that they really relished the fight with the blue cities. You know, the going after sanctuary cities to them is a big problem.

part of the message that they want to project, which is just as important as the actual numbers. And the other thing that we've privately heard from Trump officials is that they are actually aware of the effect that this could have on the economy. And so I think there are at least some voices in the White House that want to tread a little bit carefully and not sort of tank entire sectors by going sort of whole hog and raiding so many businesses.

How is this trickling down to communities that include undocumented people? Whether the Trump administration is actually able to do the kind of crackdown on immigration it's envisioning is an open question. But there's no denying that part of this is fear, and the fear is very real. So what are you hearing from people who worry that they could get swept up in this?

Absolutely. I mean, I think people are rightfully, you know, picking up the messages that are being sent to them and fear. You know, we've heard all sorts of things that sort of very Latino neighborhoods are pretty empty. Someone told me today that the 7 train, which comes up from a Latino part of Brooklyn, was sort of empty today. There are business owners saying their employees are afraid to come to work.

sort of Latino-heavy businesses that are suffering because customers are not coming, people are afraid to go to the grocery store, all sorts of things like that. You know, we've even heard of some cases where people are being taken advantage of by lawyers who are sort of drawing up fraudulent documents for them that say, you know, I have rights or I'm able to stay in the country. So you can imagine people have very little information, have a lot of fear,

And there are some people who believed that they were here legally who are now seeing their sort of temporary legal statuses revoked. So there's another level of panic there, too. Michelle, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you. That was my conversation with Michelle Hackman. She's a reporter at the Wall Street Journal with a focus on U.S. immigration policy. We'll link to some of her work in the show notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads.

What a Day is brought to you by Magic Spoon. Magic Spoon has turned their super popular high-protein cereal into high-protein treats that are light, crispy, and taste just like those classic crunchy cereal bars you remember. Magic Spoon is also launching a brand new high-protein granola. True to the Magic Spoon promise, it's packed with protein and so crunchy and so sweet, perfect for breakfast or snacking, and I've been having them pretty much every day in my lunch.

Magic Spoon's high-protein treats are crispy, crunchy, airy, and an easy way to get 12 grams of protein on the go.

What's that?

poppin' listeners. I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Want to know about the fake errors? We got them. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will whine and dine you and then

steal all your coins. Oh, you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien, and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts. That spice is 10 out of 10. Would recommend.

Hi, my name is Khadijah. And a little thing I love about the Chick-fil-A grilled spicy deluxe sandwich is that spicy kick of the chicken. It's just the right amount of heat and it gets me excited. And then pro tip, add that cilantro lime sauce. It cools it down. If the sandwich is at 100, the cilantro lime takes it to 200. It makes me want to like tell all my friends and family. Order a Chick-fil-A grilled spicy deluxe sandwich and a diet Dr. Pepper on the Chick-fil-A app for a limited time. Real guests paid for their testimonial.

Here's what else we're following today. News reports have claimed that I'm anti-vaccine or anti-industry. I am neither. The Senate held its first confirmation hearing for Secretary of Health and Human Services nominee Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on Wednesday, and lawmakers spent hours grilling him about his long record of anti-vaccine rhetoric.

Kennedy denied being an anti-vaxxer and tried to walk back previous statements, like the time he said, quote, there is no vaccine that is safe and effective in 2023. But Democratic Senator Michael Bennett of Colorado wasn't having it. He ran through a list of several conspiracy theories Kennedy has pushed.

And he did not let up.

Did you say Lyme disease is a highly likely militarily engineered bioweapon? I probably did say that. Did you say that? And that's what the developer of Lyme disease said. Okay, I want all of our colleagues to hear it, Mr. Kennedy. I want them to hear it. You said yes.

Did you say that exposure to pesticides causes children to become transgender? No, I never said that. OK, I have the record that I'll give to the chairman and he can make his judgment about what you said. I mean, Bennett really did not let up.

This matters. It doesn't matter what you come here and say that isn't true, that's not reflective of what you really believe, that you haven't said over decade after decade after decade. Because unlike other jobs we're confirming around this place, this is a job where it is life and death.

Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont also wasn't convinced. He pointed to a line of baby onesies sold by Children's Health Defense, an anti-vax nonprofit Kennedy founded, onesies that feature fun slogans like unvaxed, unafraid, and no vax, no problem. Your organization is making money selling a child's product

Oh, and remember that measles outbreak in Samoa in 2019 that killed 83 people, mostly children and babies? The outbreak that's been connected to Kennedy because he took a trip there to push lies about vaccines shortly before?

Yeah. Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon asked Kennedy about that during the hearing. And Kennedy's response was... I went in June of 2019. The measles house break started in August.

Oh, clearly I had nothing to do with the measles. Last time I checked, August comes after June, and disease outbreaks don't happen overnight. They usually happen over time. But sure. Kennedy's got another confirmation hearing on the books for today. The chamber is also scheduled to hold hearings for two other Trump nominees, Director of National Intelligence nominee Tulsi Gabbard and FBI Director nominee Kash Patel.

The Senate has now confirmed six Trump nominees. Lee Zeldin, the president's pick for director of the Environmental Protection Agency, was confirmed Wednesday.

A lot has happened in the last 72 hours regarding the Trump administration's memo freezing federal loans and grants. So let's recap with the latest. On Monday night, the Office of Management and Budget sent out a directive that froze trillions of dollars in federal financial assistance. The order caused confusion among lawmakers as well as schools and organizations like Meals on Wheels that rely on the aid. White

White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt said Tuesday it was not a blanket pause on federal assistance and grant programs. Individual assistance that includes I'm not naming everything that's included, but just to give you a few examples, Social Security benefits, Medicare benefits, food stamps, welfare benefits, assistance that is going directly to individuals will not be impacted by this pause.

The pause was set to go into effect Tuesday evening, but a federal judge in D.C. temporarily blocked the order. That brings us to Wednesday, when the OMB sent out a two-sentence notice rescinding its initial pause on payments for federal grants and other programs. Leave it to Levitt to add to the confusion. After the memo went out, she posted on Twitter, quote, Levitt said Trump's executive orders on federal funding, quote,

Later on Wednesday, U.S. District Judge John McConnell said he'd grant a group of Democratic attorneys general's request to block the freeze on federal aid. But he's asking the states for new language to block the funding freeze before he signs off on it. McConnell referenced the White House's mixed signals. He said Lovett's statement contradicted the OMB's memo to rescind the hugely ambiguous freeze. Because of the confusion, McConnell suggested the harm caused by the original memo was still likely to occur.

Who's to say what will happen in the next 72 hours? Former Congressman Bob Menendez was sentenced to 11 years in federal prison on Wednesday. The former New Jersey senator was accused of accepting nearly $1 million in bribes from the Qatari and Egyptian governments. Those payouts came in the form of cash, cars, and even gold bars. This obviously presented a huge conflict of interest, seeing as Menendez used to lead the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee.

A jury found Menendez guilty on several charges, including extortion, conspiracy, and obstruction of justice last summer. Menendez's sentence will be deferred until July so he can attend the trial of his wife, Nadine, who faces similar charges. And finally, Elon Musk is pointing fingers at the Biden administration for the extended stay of two astronauts at the International Space Station. But according to Musk, help is on the way. He said Tuesday that President Trump asks SpaceX to bring home the astronauts, quote, as soon as possible. No.

NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore and Sonny Williams have been stuck at the International Space Station since June. Their trip in orbit was supposed to last about a week or two, but because of a malfunction with Boeing's Starliner spacecraft, NASA delayed their voyage home. On Tuesday, Trump confirmed on Truth Social, quote,

Yay! Elon Musk to the rescue. Said no one. Ever. If it's between stay in space and go home but you have to be with Elon Musk, I'm kicking it in space for the rest of my life. The funny thing about this, among other things, is that SpaceX was already scheduled to bring Wilmore and Williams back to Earth no earlier than late March. And that's the news. ♪

Before we go, this week in Assembly Required, Senator Cory Booker joined Stacey Abrams for a conversation on how to communicate effectively with your elected representatives and support organizations pushing back on the new administration. They also share tips for amplifying useful Democratic information online. It's a great and helpful listen and made us feel a little bit more hopeful. So make sure to check it out wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.

That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review. Remember the time that Michelle Obama was like, eat some vegetables and the American right freaked out? And tell your friends to listen.

And if you're into reading and not just about the Let's Move campaign and how in response Fox News brought on a psychiatrist to declare that Michelle Obama was too fat to talk about nutrition, like me, What Today is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com slash subscribe. I'm Jane Koston, and I've been cursed with remembering events that took place before 2015.

Waterday is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fore. Our producer is Michelle Alloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gillyard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

What's poppin', listeners? I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Want to know about the fake errors? We got them. What about a career con man? We've got them too. Guys that will whine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it.

I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien, and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.