Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
It's Friday, April 25th. I'm Erin Ryan, in for Jane Koston, and this is What A Day, the show that will always be by your side, like a college football girlfriend during the NFL draft.
On today's show, President Donald Trump pulls a popper now on Vladimir Putin. And the president goes crawling back to the Supreme Court to let him enforce his hateful agenda, this time over barring trans troops from the military. But first... Of all the leaders in the world today, no leader is working harder to prevent wars or end them than President Trump is right now. That's why we're talking to Iran. That's why we're engaged with Ukraine and Russia. It's the desire to prevent these wars from breaking out and to end the ones that exist already.
That's Secretary of State and patron saint of wincing, Marco Rubio, speaking to the press in the Oval Office Thursday. Alongside him is President Donald Trump, who is doing what might be best described as looming.
Rubio's confident air, however, runs contrary to reports of fear and chaos reigning at the State Department, which oversees foreign diplomacy. Since Trump reassumed office back in January, there have been rumors of an impending, dramatic overhaul of the agency. But this week, we got some actual details, and those details didn't do much to calm nerves.
The administration wants to eliminate around 700 positions within the State Department, as well as ax the offices that focus on war crimes and global conflict, and reduce staff overall by 15% domestically. The plan, like so many other Trump administration rollouts, is heavy on the what and light on the how. However, it calls for these changes to be implemented by July 1st.
State Department spokesperson Tammy Bruce, apparently reading the room, attempted to quell concerns that these plans may also be a sloppy pastiche conjured up by a ketamine-fueled child with an AI assistant. I would say that Doge is not in charge of this, but this is the result of what we've learned and the fact that we appreciate the results and we want more of those results. And it is now in the hands of the secretaries.
So to learn more about the planned State Department reorganization and what it says about the Trump administration's views on foreign diplomacy, I wanted to speak with Nahal Toosi, senior foreign affairs correspondent for Politico. Nahal, welcome to What A Day. Hey, thanks for having me. So to start, can you walk us through the State Department reorganization that Secretary of State Marco Rubio laid out? What are the big takeaways?
Well, it's significant, but I would avoid words like radical or massive or like some other folks have been describing it that way. It's actually far less severe than I think a lot of people expect it. And I think the key changes are that we're going to see way less emphasis on values type issues like fighting war crimes or promoting human rights and
and way more on kind of traditional region to region relations and typical diplomatic stuff. Overall, we're hearing that the number of bureaus and offices are going to be brought down to roughly 600 from about 730 something. And they're talking about a 15% staff cut in Washington, D.C. Now, the big kind of unknown so far is what's going to happen to the embassies overseas, consulates,
the tens of thousands of people that work for the department overseas, many of them locals of other countries, that they have yet to make announcements about. So I think when a lot of people think about the State Department, they think about, like, human rights issues, refugees, those things that you say will now be less emphasized. So, like, what's left in the diplomatic stuff you talk about? Like, are they going to change the embassies into spirit Halloweens? Like, what's going to happen? Um...
Well, some of the some of those buildings are way too nice to be a spirit Halloween. Look, they're going to do lots of things that they continue to do. I mean, they are going to be part of peace talks right between Ukraine and Russia. They're still involved in energy issues. That's going to be actually a pretty big deal.
trying to find new energy partners. Commercial diplomacy is still going to be a part of what they do, which is basically trying to find ways to help U.S. businesses operate overseas better. There are many, many things that the department does. I mean, peace treaties I mentioned, but, you know, the nuclear talks,
traditional issues of war and peace that you kind of want to avoid getting into a war if the diplomats can do their jobs. There's still a lot that the department can do. I think the way that Secretary Rubio framed it, though, is like, and he had to do it like in this kind of very MAGA way of just being like, oh, we're not going to do the woke stuff anymore. And we're not going to become like ideological warriors. And he kind of said those things to throw some red meat to the base. But I got to tell you, the diplomats
restructuring is not nearly as extensive as a lot of people feared it would be. Mm-hmm. So back to the specifics of the reorg, there have been a few proposals floating around, including an executive order draft that some diplomats called, and I quote, bonkers crazy pants. So how is what Rubio laid out different than the most bonkers crazy pants suggestions?
Look, that bonkers crazy pants is actually a source of mine. And who said that? And wow, it might be the most famous thing I ever write. Look...
That so-called executive order draft, to my best reporting, I don't think it was ever anything that even remotely reached Secretary of State Rubio or was remotely a real thing. I think it was something probably something tankers drafted and some people inside the department flirted around. But it was calling for things like
Getting rid of the entire bureau devoted to Africa, completely axing huge parts of the department, including, of course, the democracy elements and human rights and things like that.
major staff cuts. But this was put out there and it absolutely freaked out a group of people, diplomats who already were freaked out. And, you know, even though the secretary said it was fake, et cetera. I think there have been some other things too. I mean, there have been other
proposals that I think are more real about closing several embassies and consulates overseas. That I think many of those are going to happen, including several embassy closures in Africa and some consulate closures in Europe. I think those are things that will happen, including there are some proposals to really slash the spending. But the budget is a different thing than the structure of the department.
And Congress, at the end of the day, at least last I checked, Congress has the power of the purse. And let's see if they're willing to keep the funding going for the department. Okay, so the absolute most extreme proposal that you got hold of, written in crayon, probably never actually going to be like a real proposal that got enacted. But on the topic of budget, earlier this month, you wrote about how the Trump administration might ask Congress
to cut the State Department budget in half, which seems like a lot. Bonkers crazy pants, just stick with the theme here. Without sounding flip, how does the work of the State Department impact the daily lives of average Americans? Like, will they even feel anything when that happens? Because I think that's what the administration is counting on, that the State Department work primarily affects people outside of the U.S. who won't, and most people in the U.S. won't care.
Well, yeah, I mean, look, there's there's the immediate effect and then there's the long term effect. Right. On an immediate effect, say you need to get your passport renewed because you have to go travel somewhere. But they have cut the staffing at the passport office. And so it takes much longer and actually maybe costs more to get your passport renewed. I mean, that is one immediate thing that affects ordinary Americans.
But then in the long term, if you have a State Department that is just dysfunctional diplomatically and it can't get along in certain places from Beijing to smaller countries where it's trying to, for instance, promote programs that reduce the risk of young people turning to terrorism, then yes, you have problems.
fragile societies overseas that can crumble and which can lead to violence and which can lead to eventually targeting of Americans, including possibly Americans who are traveling overseas, right? So...
So a lot of what the department does in a lot of ways is preventative. It's about preventing terrible things from happening. It's why military leaders, you know, often say that they really want more funding for diplomacy, that they want to help the diplomats, because the more the diplomats succeed, the less they have to send young men and women in to fight wars.
Mm hmm. The State Department has been undergoing some seemingly drastic changes ever since Trump returned to office. The big one being the decision to basically shutter USAID and fold its remaining staff into state, which brings us to another story you wrote about how the White House appears to be abandoning the entire continent of Africa. Can you describe what that looks like?
Yeah, I mean, if you look at what they're doing, it's really, really extraordinary. I mean, basically folding USAID and deleting most of it affects Africa a great deal. There's many, many programs in Africa, especially health-related programs that the U.S. was funding, as well as education programs and counter-extremism programs, things like that, that USAID was doing. And those are basically being packed up or really, really scaled back or scaled down.
So that was one example. Another example was simply that they haven't really named any Africa officials to the Trump administration. It just hasn't been much of a priority. They're definitely going to be closing some embassies in Africa, from what I am told. And there's just this, you know, it looks like there's this breakup, like we're just kind of walking away. And in a way we are. But my understanding from talking to people who are in the Trump administration or hope to go in is that
This is actually a step they hope that in the long run will help African countries become less dependent on foreign aid and more inclined to simply find their own ways to make revenue and turbocharge their private sectors.
really increase trade, at least among each other, but also with the United States. And so Trump administration officials just really feel like the relationship has to change and they're going to make these really tough decisions
some would say cruel decisions, but they just say, no, we have to make these hard decisions and we're sorry if people die, but we have to think about the long-term. It's a very interesting thing. We'll see. We'll see what happens five, 10 years from now. But that's their idea. You said we're already seeing people die, but diplomatically, are we seeing, say, China step into the vacuum that we're leaving in Africa and leaving, is it going to leave us like diplomatically
diplomatically vulnerable in those places? Is it going to give China the inside track on having relations with Africa and everything that the continent has to offer? Well, you know, that is kind of the argument many opponents of the Trump administration make right now. And I would say two things to that. One is that
to a degree, we've already lost the battle. And I want to just take a second, you know, Africa is 54 countries. They are all diverse. They are different. It's hard to make these kind of sweeping generalizations that I kind of hate doing it, especially sub-Saharan Africa is different than Northern Africa. I want people to understand that I'm not like painting with a broad brush. But in terms of the overall regional approach,
Yeah, like I think the Chinese have long made inroads that are just much stronger. They make Africa a priority. Their foreign minister, his first trip every year is to Africa.
So that is not what we do. Now, that said, when I bring up China to Trump administration officials, they're like, look, the Chinese economy is going south right now. They don't have the resources or the will to kind of do the extensive work that we did on the aid front. So we actually don't think that they're necessarily going to fill in the way what we are leaving. They don't think that China will fill that vacuum to the degree to the degree that they could.
And so they they think that the China threat has been overhyped by the aid establishment to continue the funding. It's again, it's an interesting theory. We'll see where we are five or 10 years. OK, what does all this tell you about the administration's overall approach to foreign diplomacy?
Look, I think they are just much more realpolitik, much less interested in soft issues, as they would call them, like human rights and education and definitely not promoting democracy. They feel like these types of soft power are just a giant waste of money that actually kind of interfere in a way with democracy.
America's ability to have a real relationship with certain countries, especially places like China and Russia and others that they just see as very important. So it's just going to be more transactional, more business focused. The weirdest thing about all this is it's
Marco Rubio doing this. He, when he was a senator, was a big advocate for promoting human rights and soft power and aid and all of these things. And he is, you know, very much determined to survive in the Trump era. And so he is taking a very different tack on these issues now. Well, how's the old saying go? You catch more flies with vinegar than with honey? Oh, no. Opposite.
Nahal, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. That was my conversation with Nahal Toosey, Senior Foreign Affairs Correspondent for Politico. We'll link to her work in our show notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. This episode of What A Day is brought to you by Magic Spoon.
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Here's what else we're following today. Headlines.
I didn't like last night. I wasn't happy with it. And we're in the midst of talking peace and missiles were fired. And I was not happy with it. I want to make that my ringtone when I get a text message from somebody I don't like. President Trump said Thursday that he's not happy after the Kremlin launched its deadliest attack on Ukraine in months. But
According to Ukrainian officials, a barrage of Russian airstrikes killed at least 12 people and left more than 90 wounded in Kiev early Thursday morning. The assault came the day after Trump claimed that a deal to end the war was, quote, very close and accused Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky of derailing negotiations. The deal, by the way, is basically a Xeroxed page of Russia's demands. In a post to Truth Social Thursday, Trump responded to news of the attack, writing, quote, Vladimir, stop!
Speaking to reporters in the Oval Office, Trump said the U.S. is pressuring Russia to accept a peace deal. But when asked if Russia has offered any concessions to help things along, the president said, Stopping the war. Stopping taking the whole country. Pretty big concession.
Sure, they get like 20% of Ukraine's territory on top of Crimea, which they illegally invaded, and prevent Ukraine from ever joining NATO. But sure, big concessions. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said Thursday that more Russia-Ukraine peace talks are scheduled for this weekend. President Trump asked the Supreme Court Thursday to allow Pentagon officials to immediately enforce a ban on transgender troops while legal challenges to the policy play out in court.
Trump signed an executive order back in January directing Secretary, oh sorry, I mean Diva of Defense Pete Hegseth to establish new policies around trans service members. While the order itself wasn't an outright ban, the Pentagon issued a memo in February announcing its plans to identify and remove trans service members with some exceptions. Two federal judges blocked officials from going through with it.
On Thursday, Politico reported that the Pentagon will resume providing gender-affirming care to trans service members. But the administration filed an emergency appeal to the high court Thursday, arguing that trans troops, quote, undermine military effectiveness and lethality.
Speaking of our diva of defense, Hegseth had signaled the encrypted messaging app installed on a desktop computer at the Pentagon, The Washington Post reports. This is so guy who cheated on two wives coded that I cannot even stand it. Hegseth reportedly wanted to find a way to circumvent bad cell phone service in the building and communicate quickly with White House officials. Sure, Jan. Fun fact, several Pentagon workers have lost their security clearances for way less severe offenses than Hegseth.
who the New York Times says texted sensitive military information to his wife. He's a wife guy. Can you blame him? Yes, actually.
The National Endowment for the Humanities says help is wanted. It needs artists to sculpt, quote, life-size statues of 250 great individuals from America's past who have contributed to our cultural, scientific, economic, and political heritage for the planned National Garden of American Heroes. The federal agency said in a press release Thursday it's for the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence in 2026.
The garden was proposed by Trump during his first term, and in an executive order earlier this year, Trump established a White House task force to celebrate America's 250th birthday. Cannot wait for this shitty version of Epcot. An official site has not been chosen for the garden just yet, but the governor of South Dakota in a letter last month offered up land near Mount Rushmore, which is great for me because it means I will never accidentally go there.
The grant notice says artists can receive up to $200,000 per sculpture with a cap at $600,000 for three sculptures. The NEH says with the help of the National Endowment for the Arts, $30 million will go toward enabling the creation of the marble, granite, bronze, copper, or brass statues. So if you're ready to sculpt Ingrid Bergman, Johnny Cash, Ray Charles, Frederick Douglass, Woody Guthrie, Aretha Franklin, Christopher Columbus, he's not even American, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Henry David Thoreau, Kobe Bryant, or George Washington,
Now is your time to shine. And that's the news. Before we go, when your grocery bills are climbing and our friends and neighbors are being unlawfully shipped to a country with a brutal human rights record, that's not just domestic policy at work. And that's why you should tune into Crooked's foreign policy show, Pod Save the World. Each week, hosts Tommy Vitor and Ben Rhodes talk about how U.S. decisions on immigration, trade, foreign aid, and
etc., have ripple effects around the world and shape how other countries respond to us in turn. Like tariffs that trigger global trade fights and supply chain issues, or the deportation of people to El Salvador prisons with horrific conditions while the government there is jailing thousands without due process. There's a lot going on in the world. Let's make sense of it. New episodes of Pod Save the World drop every Wednesday. Tune in wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube.
That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, go see Ryan Coogler's buzzy horror film Sinners in theaters, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just pop culture essays that contain no spoilers for Ryan Coogler's Sinners, like me, What A Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com slash subscribe. I'm Erin Ryan, and knock it off, Vladimir Putin.
Waterday is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fore. Our producer is Michelle Alloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gillyard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.
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