Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Twins, 19, Miss Flight To Boston, Found Dead On Georgia Mountain
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With special guests, a great big world. Get tickets now at LiveNation.com. Body Bags with Joseph Scott Moore. I still have a memory from when I was a child of going to the grocery store with my grandmother. And we did that every week, essentially, and I was her travel buddy. But the reason this memory stands out, it was the first time, and I was probably about maybe four, maybe five,

It was the first time I'd ever seen a set of twins. And it was shocking, you know, when you're that age because you see duplicates. It's, you know, as the young mind, I don't think can really wrap their perception around that very well. And it was shocking. I remember asking my grandmother about that. And, you know, she didn't have any definitive answers in

I do remember her saying, well, we don't have any twins in our family. Got a bunch of redheads, but no twins. As I've gotten older, I've made friends with twins over the years. And as a matter of fact, my wife's best friend, she has identical twins. But I want to talk about a set of twins today. A set of twins that had a trip planned to Boston back in March. And they were to be at the Atlanta airport and they didn't show up.

They didn't show up and were not found until someone came across them 90 miles away from their home in one of the most isolated locations in the state of Georgia on top of a mountain. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags.

Dave, we're going to talk today about this very unusual case. You know, Joe, you said that right. 19-year-old twin brothers, Kadir Lewis and Nazir Lewis, are found dead at the summit of Bell Mountain. And the GBI says it was a murder-suicide. But you said this area is remote, right? The area where these two young men were found.

was in a location in Towns County, Georgia, and that's one of the least populated counties in the state of Georgia. But I lived in this area over in a town called Dahlonega. Some of you guys might be familiar with it. I taught college up there for years and years. A lot of Hallmark movies are made up there. And to get to Bell Mountain in Towns County, Georgia, I

It gives quite the reward when you get there because it's got a 360 degree view of the Appalachian Mountains. And one of the most striking things is that you look down from the precipice of this mountain at almost 3,300 feet down onto Lake Hiawassee, which actually...

To give you some idea geographically where it is, part of it is in North Georgia. The other part of it is in North Carolina. So that gives you an idea. You can see over into North Carolina from there pretty easily. And it is just, you stand up there and you, you know, it's one of those moments where you behold God's creation. It's absolutely gorgeous. But the fact that these two young men were found up there,

is amazing and obviously quite tragic. You know, you started off by talking about twins. And I have to tell you that I have twin brothers. My little brothers are twins, identical twins. And yeah, they have their own language. First time I ever got freaked out was my parents. I'm six years older than my twin brothers. And my parents had gone out and I was there with them. I'm probably they were probably five. OK, so I'm 11, 12 years old.

And it was they should have been asleep. Right. And I hear him talking, can't make out what they're saying, but I can hear him and I'm responsible. I'm going to be the one in trouble if they're awake when mom and dad get home. So I go up there to chew them out and I try to hear what they're saying. Right. Can't understand it. It's gibberish. And so I creep up and I open the door and one of them is sitting that bed, you know, a little single bed. Yes. Sitting right there in the same. But anyway, one is sitting up in the bed.

And he's just gibberish, gibberish, gibberish. And then he sits back down on his pillow and the other one pops up and he starts talking gibberish. And then he falls back down. The other one gets it. This went on for minutes to the point where I'm like,

do I wake them up? I mean, I always heard you don't wake up people that are talking in their sleep, but this is freaking me out, man. So I actually, I did what any 11, 12 year old would do. I found a ball and threw it at them. That way I wasn't waking them up. The ball was, but I thought they were best possible deniability, but even at an early age, I was thinking like a lawyer at any rate, but twins run in my family. There are twins all over the place actually. But to go past this,

Because I've seen twins in action and how they do interact with one another. My favorite nieces are twins and they have a different way of looking at life, of looking at relationships. And it's deeper. Their kinship is just deeper. And anyway, when I saw this story and the first word from the GBI, they suspected murder suicide. And I've got a question for you about that. But I want to fill the story in first. OK, it doesn't start at Bell Mountain.

Which, by the way, you can park at the bottom of Bell Mountain and in the parking lot there and you can walk to the summit. Takes about 10 minutes is a half mile. Now, granted, it's steep and you are going to be breathing heavy if you're fat and out of shape. But it's it's not a tremendous walk through the woods. It's paved. OK, it's made it's made to get to God's creation and see it without dying on your way. Yeah. Yeah. Now this.

Started off, you mentioned a plane flight to Boston. And the guys called. They had a 7 a.m. flight to head out of Hartsfield in Atlanta. Your favorite place, Joe. And a place where I missed a flight recently for the same reason. Hang on. Let me put in a plug for Hartsfield real quick. As a matter of fact, the old saying is that if you –

If you're going to hell, you literally have to change planes at Hartsfield Atlanta Airport. So, yeah, it's it's that kind of place. I've been in every airport, every major airport in America. And by far, how can I be kind? It's the most challenging. There you go to that. There we go. Well, the twins had a 7 a.m. flight to go to Boston to visit with friends.

They had their tickets. They called an Uber. Now, they live in Lawrenceville, Georgia, and they were going to Hartsfield, which means they should have been up and on their way by 4 a.m. to catch a 7 a.m. flight. They didn't make it in time for their flight. Now, here's the catch. We don't know what happened after that, right? Maybe not. As luck would have it, we know that the guys missed their flight.

But now we know that that Friday they ended up back in Lawrenceville because at 1030 Friday night, they were seen on surveillance video at a gas station nine minutes from their home, a place where they go and they grab snacks and drink water. By the way,

It's interesting to note that both of these guys are known as cheapskates. They do not like to waste money on gas. They don't like to waste money on anything. And so these twins, these 19-year-old twins, are at this gas station convenience store at 1030, and they're drinking water because it's free and eating snacks. There is no sign of distress whatsoever. They're dressed like they normally dress.

And they're just hanging out. Two twin brothers, 19 years old. Boom. Now, that was at 1030 that night. 12 hours later at 11 a.m., their bodies are found at the summit of Bell Mountain, 90 miles away from Lawrenceville, Georgia. Neither one of these twins is a hiker.

Neither one has been to Bell Mountain. And it's not a place you would drive at night to get to the roads there. And I look these up. They're not easy to find during the daytime. And this is a place where you need to be familiar with where you're going and have a real reason and purpose for being there since they planned on being in Boston with friends.

At the time they were found on Belle Mountain, that's where the confusion comes in for their family. So we do know that after missing their plane flight, they did make it back to Lawrenceville. They were in familiar territory. They were at the gas station at 1030 that night. What happened between the time they left the gas station at 1030

And 12 and a half hours later, when 911 got called with two bodies at the summit of Bell Mountain. And how, Joe, can they come up with a murder-suicide? So, there you go. And, you know, right now, still to this point now, keep in mind, this was back in March when this occurred. And...

This story did not hit my desk at all. It did not come across my feed. You have a much more broad spectrum view of things than I do because of all the stories you're chasing all the time. But for me personally, I did not I did not see it.

to my discredit because this is something that I found very interesting in a sense that, well, first off, just the nature of it, that you've got two city kids that live in Lawrenceville. And if folks don't know where Lawrenceville is, it's on the northeastern side of Atlanta, and

I actually lived in Lawrenceville. Oh, okay. Well, you know this. It's right off of I-85, which goes northeast. You can get to Greenville, South Carolina. A quick heads up. If any of you watch the TV show on Netflix, Stranger Things. Yeah.

Yeah. They film all the mall scenes that you see in that movie or that TV show because it's based in the 80s. So a mall is a center part of that thing. They film the mall and most of the indoor scenes in Lawrenceville at Gwinnett Place Mall. Well, it used to be Gwinnett Place Mall just up I-85. Yeah. I got one more for you. All right. Lake Lanier. Oh.

is right by there. And your favorite show of all time, I'll go and tell everybody, Ozark, which is supposed to be taking place in Arkansas, Missouri, that area, is actually filmed there in Georgia on Lake Lanier. This area there, it's not a place where

Let's see. How can I say? You have to have a bit of money in certain areas up there because it is one of the fastest growing. For a long time, it was the fastest growing zip code in America. It's densely, densely populated. And this is the environment that these kids lived in. And like you said, I was watching an interview with the family and the family said,

pointedly says, we've never even heard of Towns County, much less Bell Mountain. And we've never been there. The twins have never been there. And, oh, by the way, there's no indication that they were suicidal on any level whatsoever.

So they've had more questions than answers. But as we all know, particularly when it comes to the cases we cover on body bags, that's kind of the norm, isn't it?

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These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. So Dave, my understanding is that this park, the hours are essentially from 8 a.m. until dusk. And of course, dusk is going to be variable, but March 8th of this year,

That's still well within the parameters of wintertime. It's going dark much earlier than later, like the time of year that we're in right now in spring, late spring. And so it's a different ball of wax. So the question is, whoever locked that gate, because I think the gate was in fact locked and didn't see the car parked in there,

Did they drive in there and inspect the area? And how far is the gate from the parking lot? I mean, we've talked about how far a walk it is. And this is more like a leisurely walk than it is a hike. You know, and it's not a big area. When the family, there was a family, I think it's the Bell family, donated this land. This whole thing's only 18 acres. And it's like the top of the mountain. And they donated this thing. And the state of Georgia set up a

a, um, a state park there, I think back in 2016, it's not an old one. And there are a lot of old ones up there. Uh, you know, you, you think about that and did anybody roll around through there? And the police have also said, and here's one major problem with this, uh,

There's no video up there. There's no CCTV. So you can't account for somebody coming and going in there. You're not going to be able to clip that out. You know, we've got video. I think you had mentioned we've got video of them back in Gwinnett County, Lawrenceville. Yeah. Yeah. Having been at the store. So how does that balance out in the mind? And I guess one of the big questions is, again,

How were they found? Well, OK, look, Joe, here's the part that I think I don't know how the GBI could come up with.

an answer to how they were found and say it was a murder-suicide to family members. I don't know how they can. I'm not challenging that. They're the professionals, not me. I just would think you'd have to have more results in that, like the autopsy report should include all everything. You know, when before you come up and tell a family member that their twins, 19-year-old twins, have committed murder-suicide,

Before you tell them that, you ought to have every other answer solved. I know they want answers, but the family is just, no, they're not going to believe that. Families don't believe it when you tell them that they found their child with a bullet in their head that they committed suicide. People don't want to believe that about people they love. We just don't want to believe that.

So they told them it was a murder suicide. But Joe, there's something even worse than anything on this that I've seen so far. And I actually saw this in the New York Post. And I thought, oh, they've missed on. They they run headlines all the time that are wrong. Yeah. Yeah. But there is a story that a volunteer fireman from Towns County. And by the way, Towns County Sheriff's Department invited in the GBI from the very beginning. The minute this case came in.

They called him in and said, we don't have. And you mentioned the size of the county and the number of the population. They said, we don't have we do not have what's needed to do this case justice. So they called in the GBI to be the investigation of record. So one of the people on scene was a volunteer firefighter, a volunteer first responder for Towns County. And this person, Joe, allegedly. Well, no, not allegedly took action.

pictures of these two young men, 19 year old twins took pictures of their dead bodies, Kadir and Nazir Lewis. He took pictures and then shared them, Joe. He shared them. And then it wasn't just sharing them with his boss to say, Hey, I just wanted you to have this. So you would know this is going on social media. You know how they found out kids at the school, the high school. Yeah. And that's, that's what kind of,

flip the switch relative to the sheriff's office to look into this. Now, this volunteer firefighter was charged in this case. Yeah, with, I don't know if it was obstruction or it was. It was a misdemeanor charge of obstruction. Yeah, and so that's a very broad spectrum charge that you can kind of hang on somebody.

But the problem is, is that now, you know, when a volunteer firefighter and God bless them, because it's a hard job that no one, they're volunteers, but they're firefighters. They have to go through the academy. And a lot of people enjoy being volunteer firefighters. I've got a lot of buddies over the years that have done that. When.

They roll out. They are rolling out as first responders, so they're probably trained in basic life-saving. So when a call comes up, they're going to say, you know, we've got two individuals down. They're not going to say that over the air, that we've got a murder-suicide, because that hasn't been concluded yet. All they know is that we've got...

Two people that have been found in this isolated area on top of this mountain. So when this individual would have rolled out and there were probably maybe a couple of other ones, sometimes they'll show up in their private vehicles. If you ever see like in your rural areas, you'll see a guy in a pickup truck and he's got a red light flashing on a private vehicle.

Red lights indicate fire. Blue lights indicate law enforcement. They will roll up. Many times they might live near that area, and they carry these very powerful radios that even in those isolated areas they can pick up transmissions with. He probably showed up, and when he showed up,

Your first inclination is to take photos of the dead and disseminate them. That's what we're doing because that's the way this worked out. And the problem is, is that this individual has

themselves into the investigative bubble at this point in time. Hey, it's happening right away. Is he filming his own? Did he set this up? How did he get there so fast? Was he the guy that committed the murder? And now he's back there pretending that he was, you know, is this something you've ever heard of before, Joe? Yeah. Somebody taking photos. It actually happened in Atlanta and it was to my great shame. I had nothing to do with it, but it

It was my case, but we actually had – this was not a volunteer. This was an Atlanta firefighter. We had a guy that was involved in a foot chase with the police on what's called the Grady Curve, which is an elevated portion of 75-85 that is conjoined in downtown Atlanta. He hops out of his car, runs through oncoming traffic, and we postulated that he jumped over the wall –

thinking that it was only like a, I don't know, like a 10-foot drop. It was a 30-foot drop, and he landed on a wrought iron fence, and the spike of the fence went through his foramen magnum, which is the large opening in the base of your skull. It ripped his body off of, or ripped his head off of his shoulders, and the head is impaled on this thing.

And the firefighter that was out there, this is in the early days of digital cameras, began snapping photos. And I've actually got the photos that this individual took. They were sent to me by an investigator that was homicide investigator. He says, this is what happens when firefighters take photos. And I said, how did you get these?

Guess what he told me? He said these came off of a German website, a German-administrated website, back during the days when there was all of these websites like rotten.com that don't exist anymore that show these horrible things. And so to the point of the twins, to the point of the twins, that data, you think about that was in the early 2000s.

early, mid 2000s, probably when that happened, how much further reaching now is the the Internet, social media than it was back then? I mean, we didn't even have things or think about things like Instagram and even Twitter or X or whatever they call it now. And, you know, there was Facebook, but it didn't it wasn't far and wide now everywhere. So these two

kids and they are somebody's kids with a mama that loves them very much and a family that loves them very much. Now, in this state of death, in an isolated area away from those that they love, they're dead, have been out there for a while. This guy takes photographs and disseminates them all over the place. So, yeah, if I were an investigator,

I don't know necessarily that he had anything to do with it, but if you're an investigator, you have to go question this person. He's added onto the list at this point in time, because if they're suspecting that this is something other than a quote unquote murder suicide, then you would run down the list because Dave, it's not, it's not like you're in a densely populated area up there where you're going to run across people that would do harm to you. Okay. So Dave,

There's very few people, first off, that know that this place exists, including the twins, according to their family. And...

This is in isolation. How do you get these two kids to get up here? And they both got gunshot wounds. Family says they'd never been there before. And you're talking about driving through an area that is, it's beautiful, but it's scary. They've got hairpin turns that run all through these areas. And there's only two, what would be considered, I don't even want to call them major thoroughfares, but there's two areas.

state highways that kind of run through this area. Everything else is, as my grandmother used to say, pig trails. You have to know where you're going. Sometimes your GPS doesn't even work up there. So you got a lot going on here as far as how they arrived. They're inside a locked area. Their vehicle's there. Oh, and let me tell you one other thing. When the police got into the vehicle, their wallets are in there and those plane tickets for that flight to Boston are

is still there and has never been used. A type of case that I was always fearful of screwing up, traditionally for me at least, was going to be murder-suicides. And I'll tell you why. Because if it's a murder-suicide, there's violence involved. Generally, there has to be homicidal violence. And I was always terrified that I was going to arrive at an incorrect conclusion and that I would miss something.

Because if you ever notice, my friends, that when an individual, unless they're a high profile subject, takes their life, never makes it into the news cycle. Never does as far as suicides are going. And do yourself a favor. Pay attention to what I'm saying right now. You will hear in the news today, you know, we had a murder, suicide, and a guy went in and killed his whole family and then killed himself.

How many other news cycles does it make it through? It doesn't. It doesn't. Maybe two. There might be a follow-up article because they'll catch your eye with the horrific nature of slaughtering an entire family.

The individual kills himself. And as far as the news media is concerned, the news business, there's no other business to be had here. There's no other story, Joe. Yeah, there is no. The well has run dry. It's solved. But my question goes back to.

Very quickly after the discovery of the bodies, we have the GBI allegedly telling the family it's a murder-suicide, or so they believe. That happened very early on. When you start dealing with gunfire-related homicide and suicide, what are you looking for, and what does it tell you? How could they look at two dead bodies on the ground and say it was a murder-suicide? Right.

If there's no witness in a video. Yeah. This is how it would work out for me. This is what I think that they're thinking, at least. This is what I think they're thinking. Don't you love that? We haven't heard anything about a note. Not that they would necessarily tell us because there have been cases out there where a note was left behind and we don't find out about it until well after the fact. But we haven't heard about that. Okay.

We have, but conversely, there has been, according to the family, there's been no suicidal ideation on either of these kids. And I would imagine if there's no suicidal ideation, there's no what psychiatrists refer to as suicidal vocalization, where they're saying, I want to end my life. Like they're entering into a pact to end their lives together. All right.

So how did they arrive at this conclusion? Well, these we do know because I think that... Let me check my notes here. I think probably back in March 17th, March 18th, there was a release from the state medical examiner that ruled these cases as gunshot wounds to the head. All right? So...

My thought is they would probably, if they're calling this a murder-suicide, they would have had to have recovered a weapon at the scene. That's the first bit of information. So is the weapon lying immediately adjacent to one of the twins, like to their hand? Okay, is it in proximity to the body? Because people, you don't necessarily have to have a weapon in your hand.

following suicide and it be a suicide because the body does odd things afterwards. And it can come down to how you fall, how you collapse. Bodies can spasm. It depends on a lot of things. I've had weapons that I found that are some distance away from the body, but yet still in that same space. And it was ruled a suicide. And I felt very comfortable with that.

So I'm thinking that they probably found a weapon. Now, what type of weapon other than it is probably a firearm because they're calling these gunshot wounds? I have no idea because they haven't released that information. Secondly, you're going to be looking at the pathology on both of their bodies. Well, what do you mean by that, Morgan? Well, I'll tell you what I mean by it. What I mean by that is the fact that they will have.

Gunshot wounds, and if it is a, let's say that this is, let's take murder first. If this is a murder, a word which I hate because it's a lawyer's word, I prefer the word homicide. If this is a homicide, then that means death at the hand of another. That's how we define homicide in the medical legal world. You will have a relationship between the end of the muzzle and the, the, the,

bullet defect in the head. Now, what that means is what was your range of fire? What do you think the angle of fire was? So was one of these individuals kneeling adjacent to the other one and the other one walked up and popped them in the head? Single GSW, is it a through and through? Did they

into the wound or into the scalp, for instance, where you have what would be like a tight seal and pull the trigger, or were they standing away? Well, if they're standing backwards of the body and the relationship from the end of the muzzle to that point where the projectile enters the body, you're going to have soot deposition. If it's a close range, it can be close to intermediate. So if it's close range,

You're going to have soot deposition around there. You'll have bits or flecks of unburned gunpowder. And depending upon how that distribution of that evidence is spread out away from the actual hole in the body gives you an idea of range. Just think about spraying a water hose. The further away you get from the nozzle itself, it begins to expand outward. And it forms...

like a big circle. So the further away you are downrange, the broader the circle gets until it just kind of falls away.

So they're looking at this from that perspective. That's from the homicide perspective. Now, with the suicide perspective, you can have self-inflicted wounds. And I've had them all over bodies. I've had people that have taken weapons and flipped them upside down and placed them at the back of their head to make it look like they were executed. I've actually had that happen.

I've had individuals, multitude of individuals that have placed weapons adjacent to their temple and pull the trigger. Intraoral gunshot wounds into the mouth. I've had people fire weapons beneath their chin. I've had people fire weapons into their chest. I've had one that fired a weapon into their stomach.

Bad choice because they languish for some time. So you can have all of these different types of of attitudes relative to placement of the weapon. But there's something that is pointing them there. And most of the time, Dave, with suicides, the firing or discharging of a weapon is.

The suicide is most of the time going to be close contact or maybe even like a press contact. Press contact means that the end of the muzzle is literally just tight. It almost forms a seal in the skin and nothing expands outside of the muzzle. Really, it's all blown into the body. That's a classic self-inflicted gunshot wound. Can you have those in homicides? No.

Most of the time, not unless the individual is passed out asleep or you have them restrained in some way to get a contact gunshot wound like that, because most people, your natural reaction is that if you're aware that a weapon is being placed to your head, you're going to move away. You know, you're going to try to parry that move and move away.

So with suicides, that's one of the things that we'd look for. I think that that's probably how they're reaching this conclusion, at least on the surface. We don't have really anything else to go on in this case. And this is still...

You know, this is back in March. We're laying this down right now in the midst of May, Dave. And it's my understanding this case is still open, correct? But yet they ruled it as a murder-suicide. Well, didn't necessarily rule it a murder-suicide. They told the family that that's what they believed it was. And the family was very public saying they didn't do it. They wouldn't do that. And they're still saying that. And I understand it. I don't, you know...

It's tough to lose a family member and to lose somebody. And they have trouble understanding it because it was twins, because they were so close to have this happen. And one of them had to harm the other one first. And they're just having trouble with that. Those that knew the twins, those that knew these two men. I know we've often referred to them as boys because they're

So many times when we have young people now that are in their teens, especially when they're twins and brothers, we refer to them as the boys. It's just how we refer to young people. And I think the shock is that I'm thinking about the family. I am thinking about them. I'm thinking about the horror, what they must have felt being told that, you know, they didn't know what happened. They just knew that they've got two 19 year olds who had never been as far as they knew to Bell Mountain, Georgia. They didn't know what happened.

that they weren't hikers. They weren't people who drove way out of their way because they were cheapskates. They didn't want to put gas in their car. So you're talking about driving 90 miles from their house or 90 minutes from their house. I mean, 90 miles or 90 minutes? 90 miles. Yeah, 90 miles. And it's, I mean, it's a poke to get up there. And like I said, I wish that everybody that is listening to this could appreciate the distance that we're talking about. And 90 miles for many people is like, that's not much of a distance.

Well, this is not driving down I-5 in California. Okay. This is not like a straight shot.

You have to know where you're going. This place is so out of the way, they have to pump sunlight in there because it is isolated. It's on top of a mountain. It's not like some place you just kind of stumble on. And that's why the family has so much trouble with it, Joe. They didn't like to burn their gas as it is. Do you really think they're going to drive? Yeah, I think it was a family member that I heard. He actually stated that.

he actually stated in the interview that

They don't like to drive. And I thought he was going to say, because, you know, Atlanta traffic is notorious. I thought he was going to say they're fearful of getting out on the road. No, no, no, no, no. That's not what he said. They hate to spend money on gas. Yeah. You talk about two 19-year-olds that are that thrifty. That's the only way I don't want to use the word cheap, but they're thrifty. And you said that they're drinking water. They're not, you know, knocking back sodas or energy drinks. Getting a snack and drinking water at the local store at 1030 at night. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, I think that the dynamic, again, you bring this up, Dave, and you said it so well, and thanks for sharing that about your family. The language that twins have, and it is a very specific language. I mean, they have a way of communicating with one another. How in the world could two young men, so bright and so full of life, wind up dead so far away from the home of

that they had with their family, with those that love them in such a far isolated place. Listen, if you or anyone you know is having trouble in their life and they're thinking about ending their own life, all you got to do is call three numbers, 988-988. You're not alone. Help is available.

I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Bags. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.