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Today marks 20 years since emergency responders found a murdered woman inside of a burning home in Kill Devil Hills. The victim was 33-year-old Denise Johnson. You wouldn't know it looking at this home that something terrible happened here 20 years ago, a horrible crime that is yet to be solved. I remember seeing heavy black smoke up in the air. I just remember a pool of blood and her laying in it. We knew obviously something was way wrong. This wasn't just a routine call. ♪♪
On July 13th, 1997, someone brutally murdered 33-year-old Denise Johnson inside her childhood home in North Carolina, then set it on fire. For 22 years, Johnson's killer has eluded police, living among us, undetected. This is CounterClock, the investigation into the unsolved murder of Denise Johnson. I'm your host, Delia Diemra. ♪♪
You'll hear every police detective say it: retrace your victim's footsteps. Establish a timeline. Cops say it's the only way to know for sure when someone was last seen alive, and it's the best way to find clues of who might have been with them. The timeline of where Denise Johnson was right before her murder is fairly simple. Police told newspapers and the Johnson family that on July 12, 1997, Denise had been waitressing most of the night.
As July 12 turned into the early hours of July 13, Denise stopped at a convenience store two blocks from her house. Detectives found a receipt in her truck for the John Amco gas station store, time stamped between 1 and 1:30 in the morning on July 13. I'd struck out verifying any of Denise's time cards with her employers from back then, so my next stop was trying to validate the time stamp printed on that receipt.
In order for Denise to have made a purchase, there had to be someone working. After a year of investigating, I found that someone. A woman named Teresa Rogers, who was the clerk on duty that night. I was the night clerk that worked alone at the night, the graveyard shift. She came in about 1, something like that, around after 1. And she looked tired, and she had just worked two jobs, she said.
a pack of Marlboro cigarettes, and a lighter. After 22 years, Teresa Rogers still remembers the night she saw Denise Johnson come into her store, even remembering the items that Denise bought. Denise was a regular in the store, and Teresa got to know her. She was a sweet girl, and it was just awful. I couldn't believe it happened, and I continued thinking about her, wondering if they're ever going to solve it. Then I'd choke up thinking about her.
On most visits, Denise would buy the same things. Drinks, snacks, cigarettes. Sometimes she'd come in with a boyfriend. Other times, she'd just be by herself. On July 13th, Teresa says Denise was alone, or at least our victim thought she was. This one tall girl kept following her around. She never bought anything. I don't know her name or anything, but I remember seeing her. She drove me to the airport for years. And she always wore an American flag bathing suit.
Such an odd thing. So odd that all these years later, Teresa still remembers it. And then looked up when she came out.
It's that last part, the tall blonde girl following Denise out of the store and into the night that will stick with Teresa Rogers forever. I can't swear to that one, but I do believe that the girl is the one that did what she did to Denise.
She thought it was so suspicious back in 1997 that it was the first thing she told police when officers came by after the crime. What did police ask you?
They asked me if I would do a drawing and have somebody look, but they didn't do it right. It didn't look like the girl I was trying to describe. It's familiar, but not good enough.
Teresa Rogers is the person who helped detectives come up with the notorious blonde woman composite sketch. That image, which you can see on our website or on any of our social media accounts, was circulated around the Outer Banks, and newspapers latched onto it, dubbing it Investigator's Hottest Lead. But to this day, it has never provided useful tips to law enforcement. Maybe that's because, like Teresa just said, it was done wrong.
Teresa says on the night Denise came into the store and she was working, there was a young couple doing laundry in a laundromat in the back. In addition to the strange woman who followed Denise throughout the store, there was another young woman who chatted with Denise, but there remained inside drinking a beer after Denise left. Teresa says the composite sketch doesn't look anything like the woman she was trying to describe. She says the sketch is too generic. In
And to this day, Teresa knows the woman's face but doesn't know her name. Back then, she recognized her as having been in the area often but knew she wasn't a local. She didn't know her name but thought she knew or heard of her boyfriend, who was a local. After the murder, she never saw the girl again. She also realized the boyfriend of the woman lived next door to Denise. I think he was like a neighbor or something. That girlfriend, the girl...
Denise's next-door neighbor in 1997 was a man named Eric. Was Eric's girlfriend the same one that Denise's roommate, Karen Bittinger, called a psycho, the same woman following Denise out of that convenience store? The same woman Andrew and Donna Smithson knew had caught Denise and Eric having a fling in their downstairs apartment? I needed to dig further into this connection.
So with parting words to Teresa Rogers, my all-out search for Eric began.
A few Facebook messages from listeners in Kill Devil Hills who heard the podcast told me they knew him in the 1990s. Once I knew his full name, I searched for him in local jails and the Dare County Clerk of Courts records, but I didn't get any hits. I dug around a little further on the internet, and it was there that I found him. He had a business, and front and center on Google, I found his headshot and telephone number.
Just to be sure that I did have the right guy, I sent his photo to his old friends and they confirmed it was the person I was looking for. I dialed the number for him. On the other end, a man picked up who claimed not to be the Eric I was looking for and denied ever living in North Carolina. I knew he was lying. I've interviewed hundreds of people, thieves, drug dealers, even murderers. I know when someone is being evasive and deceptive. I looped Donnie Johnson in on the lead that I was following.
I messaged a lot of people on Facebook and they identified his photo and his information as being the Eric that lived next to Denise. So he lied to me. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
Look, there's usually two reasons why a person lies. Fear, lying to distance yourself, to keep people from thinking you're involved in something. Or guilt, intentionally hiding the truth. Eric lied to me in our first phone call, and I wanted to know why. Weeks later, I called him again. He answered on his work number. This time, I wasn't going to let him lie to me.
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The exchange you're about to hear is the transcription of our conversation, which lasted six minutes. I've turned over a copy of my notes to Kill Devil Hills Police, and for that reason, I had a friend voice over Eric's responses to my questions.
Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. No.
Okay, because I know when I talked to you before that I actually was talking to the right Eric. I've had a lot of people reach out to me and tell me, I'm talking to the right Eric. Yeah, I really don't know what you're talking about. So you're not Eric who lived in Kill Devil Hills on Norfolk Street. I mean, I've had a lot of people from the Outer Banks telling me you're the Eric that used to live in North Carolina. I really can't, really can't talk about this. I don't know what it is you think I want to talk about, but I'm just doing some research and I'm trying to touch base with people that used to live on Norfolk Street.
Yeah, I know you're at work, so I can certainly call when you're not busy, but I'm just trying to talk to people that live there, and I'm investigating some stuff with the Denise Johnson murder. I'm trying to talk to neighbors and people that knew her and knew that area. So if you just had a couple minutes, it would be super helpful for my work. Yeah, I mean, I spoke to the police and all that, and I don't really have anything else to say.
I mean, even being after 21 years, it still doesn't bother you that no one has solved your next-door neighbor's murder? Yeah, I mean, you know, it's always, I've always thought about it, but I mean, there's nothing I can do. And, you know, I've moved, and I have family, and, you know, I don't really want to rehash all that. I dealt with the police, clear. You know, I don't have anything to do with it or know anything about it.
Nobody is a suspect, right? So I'm not saying that you're a suspect or were ever a suspect. It's just helpful to know if people that were closer to Denise, maybe that what was going on in her life at the time.
Like, they only contacted you because you were her neighbor? Or did they contact you because you guys might have been friends? Why did they even contact you just because you live next door? What did they ask you?
Just like neighbors or... Just like other neighbors or like firemen or like did you see the fire actually start or was it once everyone else had kind of come on scene?
Have the police ever talked to you again after that time? What did they want to know then?
Some people had told me that there was kind of a tumultuous woman potentially in your life at the time that may have had some quarrels with Denise. I don't know if you remember any of that? No. No? Like an ex-girlfriend that was kind of crazy or anything like that? No. Gotcha.
So I really don't have any more comments on that. I was interviewed by the police, took lie detectors, cleared, you know, everything. So I don't have anything else to say, so I'm on a do not call list, so I would appreciate you don't call me again. You understand that? Yeah, I certainly understand that. It's a federal offense, okay? I'm on a do not call list. Don't call me again. Do not call my work because you called through my work. Do not call me again.
Finally, denial was out the window. Eric told me who he was and that he lived next door to Denise in 1997. And just to be clear, again, I'm choosing not to use his full name because he's never been named a suspect in this case.
After our phone call, I was convinced he knew more than what he was saying. He talked for several minutes, but as soon as I brought up his ex-girlfriend, the one who found out about his relationship with Denise and was known by several witnesses as being jealous, he shut down the conversation. I mean, shut down. He became defensive and downright hostile, yelling at me to never call him again about the murder of Denise Johnson or his old girlfriend.
My search was not stopping here, not by a long shot. If Eric was going to never talk to me again, I needed to find people who knew him, who would talk. You see, I'm from the Outer Banks, and I know that no matter how far you go when you leave or how long you're gone, people still talk about you, and they definitely still talk about your baggage, including relationships. Sometimes people even talk about your businesses, or in this case, a failed business.
In my research, I learned that Eric owned a Kill Devil Hills business in July 1997, just a few blocks from Norfolk Street. A former employee of his contacted me. I was actually working for Eric.
who was neighbors with Denise. So I think it hit a little bit closer home because of that connection. You were a teenager in 1997. Where were you working and what was your role there? It was like a retail shop. I also did some body piercing and I was pretty much the only employee there. It was me and another guy named Mark.
who did some body piercing there. But I pretty much manned the front counter, bring people up. It was one of those retail jobs that everybody has in their teenage years here on the Outer Banks. And that was pretty much it. I mean, we were the two employees and Eric was our boss. That's Amelia Baldaggi. She was 16 when she worked as a store clerk and manager for Eric. She's now in her 30s, but has stayed around the area most of her life.
She's a fan of this podcast and agreed to help me understand what was going on in Kill Devil Hills, particularly with her boss in 1997. How would you describe Eric as a boss? A little moody, maybe. I would say he could be a little difficult. I had a little bit of a temper. I mean, overall, I didn't... He was...
generally a nice guy. I didn't see him that often. I think he was more interested in having a business than he was necessarily working in it.
I just don't think that he cared very much about anybody but himself. So whether you label that, you know, narcissism or not, you know, I'm not a psychologist, but I just didn't have the sense that he had the sense that he was really out for himself. And as long as, you know, he was OK, that was great. And.
And if other people had to be thrown into the bus, so be it. I don't feel like he was a person with a whole lot of empathy, at least at that point in his life. How would you describe him as a person and his life in 1997 in the times that you did come across him or those connected to him? I'm aware that he was a partier. And again, like I said, he wasn't maybe the nicest guy. He was a little volatile.
I know he had a group of guy friends that he was very close with, and I think he was kind of a guy's guy. A little bit dismissive towards women, I would say. I think that's a fair characterization of him. Not a characterization most women would desire in a person, but Amelia says there was one woman who kept coming back to that kind of behavior. Eric's on-again, off-again girlfriend, who went by the name Teresa.
I remember Teresa very well. Yes, that was the girl that he was dating. I believe she was from Virginia Beach. So she wasn't around a lot. Again, he wasn't around a lot inside the business anyway. So mostly when I encountered her, it was because she was looking for him. And she generally wasn't in the best mood when that was the case because she didn't know where he was.
It was pretty well known that he was sleeping with his neighbor, which I didn't even know her name was Denise at the time, just that he slept with her from time to time. I don't know...
how frequently. Again, I wasn't that close with him, but, you know, I knew people who knew him. And again, just his awareness that he had at least had some, you know, sexual encounters with his neighbor that Teresa was also aware of. At least one time, I know that he had come in to the shop and had told me and Mark that, you know, she had caught him and had been very angry.
It's a similar story to what Donna Smithson, Eric's landlord, described about Eric and his girlfriend Teresa in 1997. Teresa would often show up out of the blue to Eric's downstairs apartment. They fought constantly. And most specifically, Teresa knew Denise had been with her man and she wasn't happy about it. I think he was probably sleeping with other women as well. I mean, I think Teresa was aware of that too. Not long after Denise's murder, police came to the store where Amelia worked.
It was either just me or it was me and Mark when a police officer came in and kind of asked us some questions. And it sounded, my recollection of it, it sounded like pretty much thought Teresa was a prime suspect. And I know that I had expressed that that's not true.
That's who my guess would be, given the circumstances and given kind of what I knew of Teresa's off of being pretty volatile. She seemed a little unstable anyway. So I think we were a little anxious about that. I know for a time period, we did not leave work without each other in the evenings. I think people started to get a little weirded out in the weeks after that happened, especially as there seemed to be no movement towards work.
finding out who did it and specifically finding Teresa, I think, because in my recollection, in my awareness of it, she kind of disappeared and they kind of let her disappear. Did you ever get the sense that Eric and his girlfriend were being questioned by police?
No, I didn't get that sense. And I think that was another thing that was a little frustrating and weird for me. You know, again, it gets a little fuzzy for me, but I feel as though that was one of the things I said, like, I think you really need to talk to Eric. I think you really need to talk to Teresa. And I got the sense that the officer at the time was like, yeah, we know we need to do that. And I was kind of like, why are you talking to me first? I mean, I did just seemed an odd. It seemed that
If this was even true, I guess my sense that I was being spoken to before the two people that seemed the most necessary to talk to had been interrogated or anything. I just I don't know. And I expected to hear more from that officer, but I was never contacted again after that.
So in 22 years, no one has ever talked to you again about anything that you may have heard, witnessed, spoken to or about in 1997? You are the first person in any kind of professional capacity that has asked me about it since then.
It seems strange to me that Amelia had such good information, but then investigators never followed up with her. Not even to tell her, "Hey, we looked into those things. The two of them were cleared." Or, "They were interviewed and you shouldn't be worried." But no, nothing like that ever happened.
Amelia and her co-worker just went on working and living in tension until a short time later, the store they worked at closed. Yeah, that's right. In the months after Denise Johnson's murder, Amelia says Eric left the area and his business folded. Amelia remembers two brothers, who were Eric's best friends at the time, came in and helped him close the shop. The brothers later hired Amelia to work at their store.
I asked her more about these men and Eric because as I've been investigating this case, I've received information that these brothers also knew Denise Johnson in 1997.
I worked for them for many years, gosh, probably almost 10 years after I was working for Eric and his business closed. That was a time when there was a lot of drugs, there was a lot of partying. This was, I think, pre, you know, or just as some of them were starting to have kids. I don't think it was quite into family lifetime for that period of their lives.
So, yeah, I think there was a lot of drugs, a lot of parties. Wouldn't be surprised if they had known Denise. I mean, definitely, I'm sure Eric had parties and they would have been there, the brothers and, you know, various other people. Did you ever hear any of these individuals, whether it be Eric, his ex-girlfriend, these brothers, these friends, ever speak about the Denise Johnson murder? Not to my recollection, no.
If Amelia never overheard her new or old bosses talking about the murder, that may just be because they didn't know anything. But like I've said, everyone who lived in Kill Devil Hills was talking about Denise's death in 1997 and have been in the years after. So for Amelia, an employee and somewhat a member of their inner circle, to never hear them speak about it seemed odd. She doesn't think that will change now.
I think the group of men that we're talking about right now, I think even to this day, are a very... I think especially then, very close-knit, very...
and probably even today have each other's backs, particularly if it involved one of them getting in trouble. At that point in time and over the years that I did know them in the late 90s, early 2000s, I think they were a closed system. And if they didn't want to talk about something that would hurt another person in that group or hurt any of them, honestly, yeah, I don't think they're going to talk.
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Amelia Baldaggi seemed pretty sure that those brothers who knew Eric and Teresa were probably too tight-lipped to discuss the case. They weren't the type to have someone pry into their lives from decades ago. But Amelia didn't leave me empty-handed. She told me to call the ex-wife of one of those brothers, a woman named Amy Lowe.
We were all young. None of us were married at the time. We didn't have children. We were still in the party scene. We still went out drinking and partying together and, you know, just a lot of late nights having a good time.
Eric, I've met him through my ex-husband. They grew up together. They've been lifelong friends. I still know Eric. And Teresa and him lived with us in Naxat Cove. And we also lived with them in Myrtle Beach for a winter before they moved back here right before Denise was murdered.
How would you describe that relationship? And more particularly, how would you describe Teresa as a person? The relationship was very toxic. They fought a lot. They were on and off. Teresa, to me, was very unstable. She was crazy. She actually even accused me of fooling around with Eric.
At one point, there was just something not right about her, ever.
Because Amy and her ex-husband were so close with Eric and Teresa in the late 1990s, they saw and knew things that now looking back years later, she says stand out as suspect. But at the time, were really never addressed. We knew that her and Eric had a fight that night and that she had slid his tires and that supposedly she had left for Virginia. But as soon as we heard that there was a blonde scene at a convenience store with Denise, later we all...
Amy says Teresa's jealousy went beyond just Eric's fling with Denise. She says a woman Eric married a few years later lived in fear of Teresa, too.
And I know that Eric's wife, for a while there, I think she got phone calls from Teresa. And she always, and it wasn't really jokingly, she actually meant it. She goes, if anything ever happens to me, it was Teresa. She had a fear of Teresa, too.
When Amy thinks about the Denise Johnson murder, she can only think of one thing. When you guys talk about this and talk about the podcast and what we've uncovered and what we're pursuing, what is y'all's biggest takeaway from this? Well, I mean, I'm glad that it's being talked about now. I can't believe 22 years have went by and everybody just thought, well, Teresa just got away with it.
And I'm glad that you're not letting it die. What do you feel like law enforcement needs to do to pursue this to the end of the line? They need to find Teresa.
That's the big question, one I often wonder if police in this case asked seriously. I'm making it my mission to track Teresa down. If you, the listener, can help me make that process easier, please email me or contact me through the website, counterclockpodcast.com. Information you provide can be anonymous.
We spent a lot of time in this episode focusing on Eric and his volatile girlfriend, Teresa. But in every case, it's not good to get hung up on one lead. Since the start of the investigation, police had one man clear in their sights as possibly being involved. The first man on scene who reported Denise's house being on fire. The man who was driving to pick Denise's neighbor, Rob Constantino up for work.
In 2018, I arranged to meet him and discuss this case. When it came time to meet, he stood me up, didn't pick up my calls for several months after. But one day, he did finally answer. He told me he knew all about the case, but there was a reason he couldn't talk to me. He said there were circumstances that he didn't want to go on record about, but he told me he had nothing to do with the murder. He said he was questioned, cleared, and didn't have any more to say. He said he knew Eric and claimed Eric was cleared too.
He ended our phone call stating that the person who went missing was probably the one who did it, and that's who I needed to be looking for. I didn't know what he meant or who he was talking about, but I accepted him declining an interview. If I couldn't get the person who saw this scene to talk to me, I needed to go back to the evidence and what that was telling me.
I wanted to see the pieces of evidence for myself, but looking at the photos of the crime scene Kill Devil Hills Police included in their Crimeline YouTube video, I kept coming back to thinking about the fire set inside the house. What were those images of everything covered in soot and smoke hiding? Ask the M.A. just what's going on there. That should have stuck out like a, you know, that would have lit my fire.
Clues that only a medical examiner can decipher. Because I would have a lot of specific questions about what was seen during the autopsy. That's next time on CounterClock. If you're enjoying this series, follow us on social media to get the behind-the-scenes look at the investigation. We're on Twitter at at CounterClockPod and on Instagram, look for the handle CounterClockPodcast.
CounterClock is an AudioChuck original podcast. Ashley Flowers is the executive producer. And all reporting and hosting is done by me, Delia D'Ambra.
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