I still love Cameron to this day just as much as I loved him back then. He was a unique, special person. No matter how we fought, I don't believe he would have walked out on everything like that. That man loved me, I loved him, and I know he loved his daughter. He was a good man, hardworking, a little different. We got into our spats, we got into our fights, what couple don't?

But Cameron, like I said, he had trauma to the brain. He would have never really hurt me. Something pissed him off. He took it deeply. But in the end, if somebody would come at me or Sabrina...

I would have felt bad for him. He would have walked away from me. He would have walked away from his parents. He would have walked away from his dog. He would have never walked away from Sabrina, though. I see in the way he loved his daughter, our daughter. Something happened because he... No.

Last week, you heard part one of Cameron Sequeira's story. You learned how Cameron disappeared in June 2010, along with his dog, Zero. Cameron's parents were told that he dropped his two-year-old daughter off with his girlfriend Kelly's great-grandmother, Louise, and left to walk his dog. Louise attempted to report Cameron missing the following day, after he failed to return to pick up his daughter.

But an officer said she had to wait until Cameron was missing for more than 24 hours. In the days that followed, chaos ensued, as another person living on the same property fled the state with his infant son. Cameron's parents came to learn that this man and Cameron had a dispute over money. This caused them the question if he had fled because he had something to do with Cameron's disappearance. Or was this all a big coincidence, and he had fled to protect his baby?

Join us as we dig deeper into this mystery and unravel what may have happened to Cameron Sequeira. I'm Marissa, and from Wondery, this is episode 462 of The Vanished, Cameron Sequeira's story part two, Threads of Deception.

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It's believed that Cameron disappeared from Forest Lakes, Arizona on June 26, 2010. It appears that Cameron was alive and well that day because his parents were told that he phoned a relative in California and left a voicemail in the afternoon or evening. Later that night, Louise, the great-grandmother of Cameron's girlfriend, recalled that Cameron dropped off his two-year-old daughter. The story goes that next, he went for a walk with his dog, Zero.

Though witnesses never seemed to directly report that to law enforcement, and perhaps that was simply an assumption that was made when Louise went to Cameron's trailer the following morning after he failed to pick up Sabrina, and she found that both Cameron and Zero were gone. Louise phoned the sheriff's office that morning to report Cameron missing. They came out and looked for him, but declined to take a missing persons report until he was missing for at least 24 hours. Cameron's girlfriend Kelly was in a treatment facility that weekend.

She told us that she talked to Cameron that Saturday. On Sunday, she said she spoke to her great-grandmother, who told her that Cameron must have been working. Kelly was released on Monday, and when Louise picked her up, Kelly said Louise told her that no one had seen Cameron since Saturday. Police reports note that Kelly told them Zero had returned to the property that Monday morning. And this is also the day that a missing persons report was filed, Monday the 28th. In the early morning hours of Tuesday, the 29th,

The sheriff's office began receiving calls about Ryan, the husband of Kelly's sister, Casey. He had fled the area with his infant son. Casey was frantic and desperately wanted to find her baby. This shifted the focus of the search efforts. They had been looking for Cameron, and at that time, it appeared that maybe Cameron went for a walk and something happened to him.

But now they were also looking for Ryan, along with the son he shared with Casey, and wondering why he would do such a thing when another family member was already missing. As you can imagine, it was a chaotic situation.

They later learned that when Ryan left, he took a back way toward Phoenix to head to the airport, a route that would have taken much more time. His truck broke down, but he somehow made it to Sky Harbor Airport and got on a plane with his son and later landed in Florida. It seemed like a drastic move.

Ryan later left the state of Florida and flew to Oregon, where his mother was living at the time. And that's where investigators looking for Cameron caught up with Ryan. They didn't go speak with him in person, but they were able to reach him by phone. Police records include a transcript of the recorded call with Ryan.

Early on in the interview, an investigator said, Ryan said that wasn't true. He claimed that he didn't leave town because of Cameron. It was only to keep his son safe.

The investigator said, Nobody knew you were going to leave. You slipped out in the early morning hours on that Tuesday and nobody knew. Nobody knew you were going. Ryan repeated that he got out of there because of his son and not Cameron. The investigator pressed Ryan again, saying you disappear the same time he disappears and you don't even like each other. What's that lead me to think? If you're not involved in him going off or taking off or wherever he may be right now, then I'm asking for your help to help me find him.

Ryan said, whatever I can do. The investigator asked Ryan to go over the timeline of when he left.

Ryan said that he left that morning around 7 a.m. when asked why he took the route that he chose, which wouldn't have been the most direct way to get to the airport. He said that he thought Casey might call the cops since he took their son. He claimed that he was trying to get his son to a safe place because, quote, their family is pretty crazy. Ryan ended up getting a flat tire, and he said a man stopped and asked if he needed help.

That man gave Ryan a ride down to the valley. He didn't know who the man was. It was just a stranger who stopped to help. But because of this, they weren't able to contact the man to verify Ryan's story. He later elaborated that the man was in the area camping and had two female family members with him.

Ryan stated that he made it to the airport around 1 p.m., which gave him enough time to make his 3 p.m. flight to Florida. When asked if Ryan already had tickets or if he purchased them at the airport, he said he already had the tickets. However, Doreen said she was told by an investigator that they had a video of Ryan purchasing tickets at the airport. The investigator who interviewed Ryan wanted to know why he chose to fly to Florida of all places.

Ryan said he planned to see his biological father. When asked where his father lived in Florida, he said he wasn't exactly sure because he wasn't able to contact him once he made it to Florida. Ryan said that he stayed in a hotel in Tampa for two days. He claimed that he lost his ID and folder with everything at the airport, which left him stranded. He waited around to get some money together. His grandmother Lorraine sent him some money to fly to Medford, Oregon, where his mom lived.

Ryan expressed that since he made it to Oregon, he had been working to clean up his life and get away from drugs. The investigator brought the conversation back to Cameron once again. They inquired about when Ryan last saw him. Ryan said he couldn't really remember the days. As a reminder, it's believed that Cameron disappeared on the 26th. When Ryan was asked when he last saw Cameron, he first said the 29th, which was the day he left town. But

But then he said the 27th or the 28th, which would have been Sunday or Monday.

Going over the events of those last days before he fled the area, Ryan said that he got into an argument with Casey. He went to a neighbor's house and called CPS. He wanted CPS to investigate because he claimed his wife was smoking marijuana while breastfeeding. He became frustrated because he felt CPS gave him the runaround. When asked if Ryan saw Cameron on Saturday, he said he didn't think so. When asked if he slept in the main house on Saturday night, he said that he did and that he slept in an upstairs bedroom.

Ryan claimed that he didn't hear any arguments or anything going on that night. The investigator asked Ryan if he saw Cameron drop his daughter off with Louise on Saturday night. He replied, if that's what she said. But Ryan claimed he didn't witness Cameron dropping Sabrina off. Then they moved to Sunday and asked if Ryan saw Cameron that day. He said he didn't think so, but couldn't remember. The investigator inquired about Cameron's dog. Had Ryan seen Zero? He said he didn't think so.

Last week, you heard Kelly say the following about Cameron, Zero, and Ryan and Casey's dog, Tipsy, disappearing from the property that same weekend. My sister's dog, Tipsy, how do my dog, Zero, my blue tick, LaQueen's Healer, Tipsy, my sister's pit bull, and a man, my husband, basically, go missing in one day? Tipsy never came back. No. Zero did.

During this interview, the investigator asked Ryan about Zero. He said he saw Zero come back. Zero was running around outside the fence, so he went inside to tell Louise, and she went out to get Zero back inside the gate.

Ryan places zero returning on Sunday, while others said that was Monday, though his memory of which day it was when anything occurred that weekend didn't sound very clear. The investigator asked, where's your dog then? I know you've got a dog, or you and Casey have a dog, right? Ryan said, yeah, and the investigator asked what happened to the dog. Ryan said, I'm not sure. He'd, you know, he took off like every other day out of the yard and was running around. I don't know, he might be in the pound.

A few minutes later, the conversation returned to Ryan's dog, Tipsy, once again. They asked Ryan what he said to Casey before taking off. He said, I don't remember what I said. I said I was going to check to see if Tipsy was back yet, because, uh, our dog had been missing. The investigator asked, Okay, so you tell her you're going to get up and check on the dog, and instead you leave. Ryan said, Yeah.

We will return to this point about the dogs later in the episode, but for now we want to continue on with Ryan's interview. The investigator asked Ryan if he saw Cameron on Monday or Tuesday morning before he left town. Ryan said no. The investigator then asked if Cameron was known to leave like this, and Ryan said that Cameron and Kelly fought often, and that Cameron would sometimes just walk off when he was angry. So when no one could find Cameron, Ryan figured that was what happened again, but

But remember, Kelly wasn't there that weekend. She was in that facility. They pried further into Ryan and Cameron's relationship. Ryan said he didn't have problems with Cameron. Cameron was the one who had issues with him and his wife for stuff. But he didn't elaborate further on what he meant by stuff.

The investigator asked Ryan what Kelly was doing between the time she got back from rehab on Monday and when he left on Tuesday morning. He said he didn't really know, but that he saw her on the phone a lot. He claimed that Kelly said on Monday night that she was sick of Cameron and had been hooking up with some guy named Sean or something. He didn't know who that was, but thought it was one of Cameron's friends from down in the valley.

Ryan claimed that he slept in the main house again that night. He was planning to sneak out early the following morning, so he slept with his shoes and jacket on. The investigator said Mike

Ryan said that wasn't true. He did get up several times that night because he was nervous and planning to escape with his son, but that he didn't actually leave the house until morning when he took his son out to the truck in his car seat and left.

One of Ryan's claims was that he was upset that Casey was taking their son to her mother's house. He said that Casey and Kelly's mother was strung out on meth. You may recall from Part 1 that Casey and Kelly's mother, Jessie, was briefly mentioned. A witness came forward claiming they were asked by Kelly and Jessie to help carry heavy bags from Louise's house to the back of a pickup truck. One bag ripped and a gooey substance dripped out.

The tipster was aware that Cameron was missing, which made him suspicious. So he asked what was in the bags, because they seemed heavy. He was told that it was stuff from an old freezer.

When Ryan was asked what his opinion was regarding where he thought Cameron might be, he said that Casey and Kelly's mother, Jessie, was really upset with Cameron because he was keeping Sabrina from her. In part one, it was briefly mentioned that prior to Ryan taking off, he went to neighboring Navajo County to point out drug houses to sheriff's deputies. At another point in Ryan's interview, he was asked about this.

One of the houses that Ryan pointed out was Casey and Kelly's mother's home. He was asked if he left because he had given up that information. He said not really. He just wanted to get his son away. The investigator asked, Ryan, essentially you're driving around with a deputy and snitching out people then all of a sudden. Ryan interjected, stating that he didn't care about that. The investigator asked again, you weren't afraid of anybody coming and hurting you or anything like that.

Ryan said he didn't trust anyone in their family because, quote, all of them are a bit out there and probably capable of doing just about anything. He reiterated that that was the reason he decided to get his son out of there. The other theory that Ryan offered up was that Cameron left to go down to the valley. When asked how he would have gotten there, he mentioned two friends, Eric and Sean, who could have picked Cameron up.

Remember, a few minutes ago, Ryan said Kelly had told him that she was hooking up with Cameron's friend named Sean. And hang on to that name Eric. We'll come back to him later on in this episode.

When asked about his theory on why Zero would return without Cameron, Ryan said he had no idea, but it didn't sound like a good situation. It made him think that Cameron was hurt or something. One problem with establishing a timeline in this case is that witness reports have varied on dates and times. Some people have changed their stories repeatedly, and it's difficult to know if that's simply fuzzy memories or if they have something to hide. The

The investigator asked Ryan about something Kelly had told them, and we need to provide some context before we dig further into what Ryan said. In the police records, there are notes regarding a July 1, 2010 interview with Kelly. In this interview, she said that she saw and had an argument with Cameron on the evening of the 28th into the morning of the 29th, which would have been two days after Cameron disappeared. If this is true, it would have been the evening after Kelly returned from that facility.

Kelly said Cameron just showed up late that night, and an argument ensued. She claimed that she was shoved into the refrigerator, then Cameron ran into the woods. She didn't initially follow him because she was barefoot. She went to put shoes on, and when she went back to where she had seen Cameron, she saw Ryan standing there. Cameron was gone, but she acknowledged that she didn't witness Ryan doing anything to Cameron. It's important to note that the report says Kelly did provide other information as to the whereabouts of Cameron.

However, all leads that Kelly has provided have been met with negative results, and at this time, Kelly's credibility remains in question. It should also be noted that during the time Cameron went missing, Kelly was in a rehabilitation center identified as Pine View Rehab Center in Show Low, Arizona.

So that's the backstory to this claim Kelly made on July 1st. In Ryan's recorded interview, the investigator asked him, I'm being told that Monday night, Cameron returned back to the house, just before the morning that you left, and he got into an argument with Kelly downstairs. After the argument, Cameron goes running off between some houses going towards the next cul-de-sac over, and you were seen running after him in the dark.

Ryan asked, that I was? The investigator continued, yeah, and you both turned down that street, and down there where there's a gully, I'm being told that Cameron ran down into that gully, and you ran in there after him. Ryan replied, no, that's completely false. I never saw him Monday night, and as far as their arguments go, I don't have anything to do with what they do, or I never get involved in what they're arguing about. The investigator asked, then

Then why am I hearing that you saw him that night and you chased him into the woods? Ryan said, I have no idea. But whoever is telling you that, I might look a little closer at them. Throughout his interview, Ryan kept to his story that he didn't have anything to do with Cameron's disappearance, and he didn't have any specific information that would help investigators locate Cameron.

By mid-July of 2010, Ryan was back in the Forest Lakes area. At that time, due to a lack of evidence pointing at Ryan, investigators no longer considered him a person of interest in the case.

But it's noted that his actions and movements would be monitored should anything of evidentiary value surface at a later date. Today, Kelly refutes much of what Ryan said in his interview. She doesn't believe he was picked up by a stranger after his truck broke down. And she questions why he would choose to make that drastic move by fleeing the state. That's bullshit. His grandmother picked him up and gave him a ride with him.

His child. That's what my sister Casey told me. Why would you go down Young Road to get to the airport? You have 290. If you want to go to the airport, why wouldn't you just go through Payson? This is what I've been trying to tell everyone the whole time is, why was this truck down in Young Road? Even if Casey did call the cops on him, that's the father of

of the child. They wouldn't have been able to do anything. They were married, no emergency custody order. This is what my sister Casey told me. She woke up in the morning and...

My nephew was gone. Now, they had no argument. I'm just telling you what people told me because in the end, I was in a treatment center. I got there after he went missing. Ryan was acting crazy. Ryan was flipping out for no reason. And this wasn't just that day. He threatened our god sisters.

She was there when I was at the treatment center. She told me straight up, Ryan was crazy.

crazy. He was acting insane. And not just that, my great-grandmother, she was old, but she was a smart woman. You know how old-fashioned women are. She was going on 83 years old, and she never said the F word in her life. My great-grandmother raised me. I was her baby. My great-grandmother looked at me when I came home from Pineview, looked at me straight in my eyes and told me, there's something wrong with Ryan Statham.

Fuck away from that man for your own safety and keep my great grandbaby away from him too. He's dangerous. When you're that old, you have enough life experience where you have that just intuition. Why would you go to Tampa, Florida when you don't even know where your dad is? That's a lie. You are on the run. I'm not dumb.

Then after they found you in Tampa, you skipped to Oregon. Come on. Doesn't that just seem kind of out there? Think about it. That's a perfect puzzle piece on a lie right there. I've had more life experience now and I've had 14 years to think about this and I've thought about it every day.

Ryan, for one, was strung out on meth. My mom and my sister were sober at that time. Not just that, my mom is the grandmother. Why can't she see her grandchildren? And not just that, Casey went over to my mom because Ryan terrified the shit out of her. He was abusive. He beat her. Ryan was very abusive. Me and my sister protected each other in a way.

Last week, Doreen mentioned an alleged altercation between Cameron and Ryan that took place in the lead-up to Cameron's disappearance. Sheriff's deputies recalled Cameron was arrested and held overnight before being released. Doreen said that years later, an investigator told her that while Cameron was held overnight, he tried to harm himself.

What I found out was he had tried to commit suicide while I was in there. This is not written anywhere and I cannot find it anywhere. But Chuck Jones, he was the cold case investigator somewhere in these last 14 years and was working on Cameron's case for a very long time. He's an ex-FBI agent. And he had told me that he came across that report. And I've got what they gave me of the report.

But it doesn't say anything about, and I said, how can they release him the next day if he tried to commit suicide? Why wouldn't they get him help then? You guys let him go the next day. And none of that made any sense to me. And it still doesn't. Lots of questions.

There is a report in the files we received regarding an incident that occurred on May 7, 2010, more than a month prior to Cameron's disappearance. The report states that sheriff's deputies were called out to the residence and Kelly met them at the gate. She said that Cameron was freaking out. They could hear him yelling and two windows were broken out on the trailer. They arrested Cameron but didn't pursue charges in the case.

There's no mention of Ryan in that report, but it also doesn't go into the details of what Cameron was upset over at the time. Also absent from the records are any mentions of a suicide attempt while he was in jail that night, which is why Doreen continues to have questions about all of this today.

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After Cameron disappeared, Doreen and Frank knew that they had to jump into action to protect Cameron's daughter, Sabrina. Cameron had been her main caregiver, and they were worried about her safety now that he wasn't there to make sure she was okay.

I asked Kelly, what are you going to do? And she said, well, Cameron was the one who took care of her and I don't take care of her. And I said, okay, so we'll take her then. So she went with me to the Flagstaff courts and handed Sabrina over. Until today on Facebook and everywhere else, she tells everybody, I stole the baby. I had enough money to take the baby away from her, which

which I did not do. She went to court with me, and we figured it would be best that way. I got guardianship over Sabrina and brought her back here. There was so much uncertainty during this time, but Frank said the one thing they could control was making sure that their granddaughter was safe.

She was two when we got her. She's 16 now. What happened was somebody called Child Protective Services and Child Protective Services went over to a friend's and took her from where she was. And then we went to the court. Kelly gave her to me and Doreen. When we went into the courtroom,

to talk to the judge about the situation. She just stood up and goes, "I'm giving the rights to my daughter, to these people, because they'll raise her properly." And the judge even told her, "You know, you realize that you've given up rights, that if you ever want to see her, you have to go to court." She can't just show up one day and say, "Hey, I'm taking my daughter."

Kelly expressed that she ultimately made the decision to hand Sabrina over to Doreen and Frank because she felt Sabrina would be safer in their care.

My great-grandmother told me, Kelly, stay away from that man. Keep Sabrina, my great-great-granddaughter. That's another reason why I had her go with her grandma Doreen to Oregon. The further away, the better. He was living there, and I did not want my child around him. Not happening. Doreen and Frank were now back in Oregon raising Sabrina when they received a call from Kelly about something she allegedly found.

Shortly after that, I get a phone call from Kelly saying, oh, my God, we broke into Ryan's trailer, her and Casey, and we found Cameron's dad ring. When Cam, he was so proud to be a daddy that Kelly gave him and said dad on it. And he never took that ring off. Never. That ring meant so much to him. But that ring was found on the top of a television set sitting in Ryan's trailer.

So I immediately say, okay, let me call the sheriff's department. I'll have them come get the ring. When we spoke to Kelly, she told us more about finding Cameron's ring and how she confronted Ryan about it. I made a dad ring for Cameron that said dad on it. I spent like four or five hundred bucks on this ring. Sterling Silver specially made one of a kind ring, right?

What the fuck was it doing in Ryan's trailer on top of his TV? My daughter was already in a safe spot. And at that time, I wanted to get down. Till this day, I'm not afraid of Ryan. Nope. I got in his face. I'm all like, why was Cameron's dad ring on your fucking TV? I got mean with him. He's like, Kelly, I found it in the dirt. I'm like, you fucking liar.

and walked off. Pardon my language, but that's a lie. Cameron never took that fucking ring off. Doreen had her suspicions about the other people living on the property where her son was last seen, and she didn't know who to trust or believe. But even if they weren't involved, they may have valuable information. So she kept in touch with Ryan, who later moved away from Arizona. She was hoping he might give her a clue. Eventually, Doreen worked up the courage to ask Ryan about that ring.

So we would correspond on the computer every once in a while. You know, he showed me pictures of his kid. I would show him pictures of Sabrina. And, you know, I just pretended to be a friend. I kept going back to that ring. The cop said, we don't know if Kelly and Casey planted that ring.

We don't know. Maybe Ryan didn't even know it was there. Okay. So it took me two years of talking to Ryan to get comfortable enough to say, hey, Ryan, you know, when the police department went into your trailer, they took a bunch of pictures, you know, the inside of your place. And I just happened to notice something.

Cameron's ring on the top of your television. And he writes back to me. Yeah, you know, that's funny because I found it out there in the driveway. So now it put it, he found it. So at least now we knew that Kelly and them did not. But you know what? None of those pictures captured. They captured the TV, but you can't see the ring that's on it.

For years, Doreen has wondered if Ryan had something to do with her son's disappearance. To her, it just seems like the most logical conclusion. Ryan, the main house on the property, his ex-wife and the two kids would sleep up there, but he had his own trailer. The night that he disappeared, he went and fell asleep up in Casey's room with both the kids, fell asleep supposedly on the extra bed in their bedroom.

And got up in the middle of the night. He fell asleep with his clothes on, Casey said. During the night, he gets up, grabs the baby with a blanket, sneaks out, goes and gets into his truck and takes the back roads from Forest Lakes all the way to Sky Harbor Airport where he buys a ticket one way to Florida. He did do a phone interview with the cops. And when they said, what did you do in Florida? He goes, I went to go see my dad in Florida. And

And he goes, oh, okay, great. So could you tell me, you know, his name and address? Because we need to verify that. And he goes, oh, well, when I got to Florida, I couldn't find him. That was just an excuse to get out of town. The cops all knew he was there. He ended up doing the phone interview from Medford, Oregon. They were concerned about a blue tarp. They

They made sure that they let me know that they were concerned about a blue tarp. That's in a police report somewhere. And there was a quad that I know that they had tested to that was Ryan's. And in the meantime, what Ryan did was he chose to go to the next county, to Navajo County, and do a ride-along with the cops to point out the meth houses.

And then he takes off to Florida. Cameron was a peaceful guy. Cameron didn't start shit unless he absolutely had to. And being that Ryan threw a rock, broke his window, when you start linking all these pieces to this puzzle, it sort of just makes sense. I mean, when we went up there to search for him and to get the baby and bring her back,

We talked to people. Cameron had no enemies. Let's put it this way. It looks pretty good. It just makes sense in my mind. Despite Doreen's suspicions, she does keep an open mind, and she tries to look at all of the evidence, not just the pieces that fit the theory she thinks is most likely.

I mean, there are other reasons. I mean, there's all kinds of things that it could be. The thing that stands out mostly because Ryan taking off in his car and stealing his own child and going to Florida for no reason. And why would they not put him through a interrogation, bring him in? And from what I understand, they never did that. It was just a phone interview.

Doreen explained that once she and Frank arrived in Arizona after Cameron disappeared, Kelly quickly handed over Cameron's things, and then custody of Sabrina. We wondered about Cameron's dog, Zero, who had disappeared with him, but later returned. Did she give Cameron's beloved dog to them, too? Had they seen Zero while they were there? Whatever came of him? We asked Doreen this question, and she said that she had always taken the story about Zero returning without Cameron as fact.

But she never actually saw the dog. And the police reports we obtained don't recount any firsthand interactions that law enforcement had with Zero.

From what I understand, the dog came back. Kelly made this wild story up about the fact that forensics came and clipped the hair from the dog's paws, removed a few stickers from the dog's feet to try to see if they could find out where the dog had been. But then when I talked to them, they said they did no such thing. That's all we know. And then what she ended up doing is giving the dog away, she said, to an Amish family that lived up there.

You know, I would have taken the dog in had I had known she was going to do that. I mean, that was Cam's best friend. He went nowhere without zero. Fishing, hiking, everything. And you know what I'm thinking is, now Kelly also did mention, first she had told me that she thought Ryan had killed the dog because he's famous for killing dogs. Whether or not he really came back, I don't know. I have no proof of that. Because the dog was not present when we got there to pick up Sabrina and

the dog was not around, I would have taken the dog. I don't know why, for some reason, I believe that Zero came back. I guess because my heart wanted Zero to come back, but actually we don't have any proof. But she didn't tell me at the time she'd given away. I found out that she'd given that dog away long after. I would always ask about Zero and she would say, oh, he's fine, he's fine. But probably maybe a year, year and a half after, I said, what did she do with Zero? She goes, oh, I gave the dog away. She

She gave me her child. Why wouldn't she give me the dog? I was so emotionally crazy anyways. Now that time has passed and I start thinking about some of the things she did and how she reacted to certain situations. A lot of it is all just downright deceitful lies.

There was one independent witness who told investigators that he believed he had seen Zero around the time Cameron disappeared. He said that he knew the dog belonged to Cameron and Kelly, and described the dog that he saw as a black and white bulldog type, possibly with some pit bull. He said that he had seen the dog not far from Cameron and Kelly's home, possibly as early as Sunday, but more likely it was Monday or Tuesday. Kelly told us that after Zero returned, she was forced to give him away, but that he lived a good life.

I could not afford Zero without Cameron. I gave Zero to a good home. He had a wonderful life. I gave Zero to a cattle farmer. He was a friend of mine. Sadly, Zero has passed on. And sadly, the person I gave Zero to has passed on too. I wanted to keep Zero, but I couldn't afford him. Especially everything that was going on. He lived until he was like 17. And that's long for a dog.

Fast forward to 2018. Kelly's sister Casey, who was married to Ryan back in 2010, was now incarcerated. Investigators met with Casey to inquire about the relationship between Cameron and her ex-husband, Ryan. They asked Casey about Ryan taking off days after Cameron disappeared. She said that she could recall Ryan coming to bed, picking up their baby, then leaving the house. He had made some comments that didn't make sense to her.

Prior to this, they hadn't discussed any plans for Ryan to take the baby or for them to fly to Florida or Oregon. Casey said that after Ryan fled, she obtained a court order, flew to Oregon to serve him, and later returned to Arizona with her son. We're going to briefly discuss the animal abuse that was mentioned in Part 1. Again, it may be distressing for some listeners. Please take care and consider skipping this section if you find such topics triggering.

Investigators asked Casey if she thought Ryan could be responsible for Cameron's disappearance. She said she believed that he had done something, but she didn't have any factual information to support that belief. She was making an assumption based upon Ryan subsequently leaving the area so soon after Cameron mysteriously vanished.

When asked if she thought Ryan was capable of hurting or killing someone, she replied yes. The investigator asked her why she believed that, and Casey said that when they lived in Oregon, he had come home high on meth and demanded money. When Casey refused, he pulled out a pistol and shot her dog. She said that she was quite scared of Ryan, and would never do anything to intentionally provoke him after that incident. It's disturbing to hear about this. It makes your mind wonder what a person is capable of, if they harmed an innocent animal.

Earlier, you learned that Ryan and Casey's dog, Tipsy, also disappeared when Cameron and Zero vanished. Though Kelly said that she's always wondered if Cameron's disappearance had something to do with the dogs. Had Cameron come upon Ryan hurting Tipsy and being a dog lover tried to intervene?

Cameron, if anyone would have came near his dog, he might have been small, but he would not have tolerated that. I've watched Cameron numerous times pick a fight with Ryan because Cameron didn't like him. Ryan didn't like Cameron. If somebody did something to Cameron, it would have been Ryan.

My dog, Zero, was a blue tickle Queensland heeler, and he was fast. I clocked that dog running at 45 miles an hour when I was on a quad. I actually, me and Cameron, flipped that quad trying to catch the dog because he got out one day. Zero was fast.

Well, Tipsy, I think Ryan killed Tipsy, went to kill Zero, and Zero got away from him and ran back home. I believe Cameron was with Ryan that day because how does two dogs and one man go missing in the same day? Ryan took off two days later.

Is there more of a tie between the dogs disappearing with Cameron than anyone has ever uncovered? Considering Ryan's history with a pet dog, Cameron's loved ones believe that if he had witnessed Ryan hurting his dog or any other dog, he would have attempted to intervene. Could that have been a motive to make Cameron disappear? That remains a question to this very day.

The police reports go on to document a strange tip that came in through Silent Witness on July 12, 2021. The anonymous caller stated that he and his wife were traveling with another couple through Arizona when the other woman told his wife that her husband wasn't allowed to drive any longer because he had hit something while driving to their cabin.

They didn't know if it was a person or an animal, but whatever it was, they saw a dog chasing after it. The caller didn't say when the conversation had occurred or when this woman said they had hit something, but he thought that it was around 2010. Due to the reported time frame, the location where Cameron went missing, and the description of a dog being present, it seemed like this tip could possibly line up with Cameron's disappearance and wouldn't have been a good idea.

and warranted further investigation. They searched the names of the couple that were given by the tipster, and they found that the man was now deceased. Investigators also contacted DPS to request that they search for any reported hit-and-runs or remains found in the area that the tipster mentioned. DPS reported back that there were no unidentified remains found along that road since 2010.

They also learned what vehicle the couple owned back then and pulled the Carfax Vehicle History Report for it. The car was declared a total loss in 2020 and sold at a salvage auction, but there were no accident claims filed for the vehicle in 2010 or 2011. Investigators found an address for the woman and went to her home, but no one was there and it appeared to be unoccupied. They later reached her by phone and asked if she and her husband were involved in an unreported accident in 2010.

She said she was currently living in Oregon and couldn't recall an accident. She went on to say that she divorced her husband around 1999 or 2000, 10-plus years prior to Cameron's disappearance, and her husband had never lived in the state of Arizona. But they did take some road trips from Oregon to Yuma, Arizona, though she said she had no knowledge of Forest Lakes or being there in 2010.

She stated that she filed for bankruptcy after her divorce, and that was consistent with records investigators found, which lent credibility to her claim of being divorced years prior to 2010. She also mentioned that it was her belief that if her ex-husband had hit someone, that he would have reported that and not ignored it or attempted to cover it up. The investigator noted that based on this woman's denial of an accident occurring, no known reports of a hit and run in the area from 2010, and

and without additional information from the silent witness tipster, the lead was deemed not credible. Doreen said she's been confused about this tip because she was told a different story about what the silent witness tipster had reported.

They told me it was a bunch of kids driving and they were all intoxicated with liquor. This is exactly what he told me. He said that a pilot report came through and we followed up on it. It was a teenage girl who called in years after it happened because she said they were all intoxicated drinking and they hit something. They didn't say it was a person. They thought it might have been Cameron because of everything that was going on, you know, the description. And she saw that.

Doreen has never received a sufficient explanation for the discrepancies between what she was told and what was written in reports, so this remains yet another question mark for her. On July 20, 2021, investigators were contacted by a detective in Gila County, Arizona, which is a neighboring county to the south of Coconino County. You may recall that Ryan's truck was found broken down in Gila County after he fled the area with his son in the days following Cameron's disappearance.

The detective said that they had an open case regarding unidentified remains found there, with an estimated date of death between 2014 and 2019. The bones had been located by a hiker in February of 2020, off of a hiking trail near Tonto Basin. They found a portion of a human skull, a femur, and a DC brand sneaker. They thought the bones were possibly female, or a male who was smaller in stature, and Cameron was only 4'11".

The report states that although the year of death was off by four years, due to the estimated slight stature, the location of remains being only 46 miles southwest of where Cameron disappeared,

and the presence of a DC brand shoe, which Cameron was reported as possibly wearing when he disappeared. They believe the remains could possibly be Cameron. The size was no longer visible on the shoe that was found near the bones, so they took measurements of the shoe, about 11 inches from toe to heel, and sent that information to DC Corporation to see if they could confirm what size the sneaker was. Doreen told us that they were never able to pin down the exact size of the shoe.

They heard back from the Arizona DPS lab that

that their analysis of the femur indicated there wasn't sufficient DNA in the sample to develop a profile. When investigators spoke to Doreen about the shoe, she said she was almost positive that shoe belonged to Cameron. Doreen acknowledged that Cameron wore work boots while working, but otherwise, he always wore DC brand sneakers or Vans. Cameron had smaller feet, and Doreen said usually he wore a size 6.5 to 7.5 shoe, sometimes up to an 8 depending on the brand or style.

The investigator contacted Kelly, who stated that Cameron only wore steel-toe work boots size 10 or 11 and didn't own any sneakers at the time of his disappearance. She said that the information about him wearing sneakers must have come from his parents, who didn't live with him at the time and wouldn't know what shoes he owned. The report states, It should be noted that when I reviewed the photos taken in the trailer, several pairs of shoes were photographed including work boots, DC sneakers, and Vans sneakers.

During this call, the investigator took the opportunity to ask Kelly if she had any information regarding Cameron's disappearance. She said that she didn't have anything new, but always had a feeling that Ryan did something to Cameron. She said she confronted Ryan several times, but he never made any admissions. In a follow-up call with Kelly, she said that Doreen sent her a photo of the shoe, and she was now positive that it was Cameron's shoe. She could remember the day they purchased that pair of shoes at a store in Phoenix.

It's noted that this information was contradictory to what Kelly had said during a call weeks prior, when she claimed that Cameron didn't own any sneakers, only steel-toe work boots. Doreen explained that she was informed about the remains found in Gila County quite some time ago, but it's been a long process of waiting to get results from DNA testing. While seeing the shoe found with the remains convinced Doreen that this was likely Cameron, she also knew that there were other families who thought it could be their missing loved one as well.

And now we're waiting on new DNA that it was taken a year ago. The hiker found them and, you know, marked it with GPS and everything. And the sheriffs went up there and they did find several bones and a tennis shoe. And the detective sent me a picture of the tennis shoe. And I said, that's my son's D.C. shoe. He wore those skater shoes. Those were the last shoes my son had on. But

Now three other families are saying that's their son too. And I think it's my son's shoe. But of course, they sent the bones down the first time and they just put it through the real quick, you know, the very first one they have. And they went down to Phoenix and the lab came back with, they didn't get any traces of DNA from it. So now last year, July, Karen, who's the detective in Gila County,

So she finally got it approved because now there's four families affected by this because those people also say, or three, say that that could be their child too. So now the bones went down a year ago to, they were sent over to Bodie and still waiting. Multiple times I found a skull out there and I waited for that one. Went through this several times. Frank said that when he saw the shoe that was found with bones off of a remote trail, he was shocked.

Oh, I got chills when she sent me a picture of that gator shoe just like he wore. It was in a pretty remote area. The shoe and the bones were found in the same area.

When they sent me the picture of that shoe, I, oh, chills. One place said they couldn't get DNA off of it. Well, they say a fire went through that area, but they said there was a new way of getting DNA out.

When Dorian learned about the location of the remains that were recovered, she couldn't help but think back to the information she had learned over the years, about Ryan's movements in the days after her son vanished, how he took off with his son, and where his truck was abandoned in Gila County.

When Ryan's truck broke down in Young, if you were to draw a straight line from where those, the coordinates, where those remains were found, you almost draw a straight line. It's pretty close. I mean, you have to take the roads, which are going to take you a lot further. But, yeah, I don't know, man. I just help but wonder, you know, if that is Cameron up there.

Whenever Doreen heard from law enforcement, she would update us on the status of the testing. As we were preparing to air Cameron's story, on October 9th, we reached out to Detective Karen Balz from Gila County to inquire about the status of the DNA testing. She told us that they had not yet received a hit. Days before Cameron's first episode was due to air, Doreen received word from Detective Balz about the DNA testing that she had been waiting on for so long.

Karen had called about the DNA and it was done where they did a direct comparison. And she said, no, it's definitely not Cameron. I said, is there any error for mistakes? She said, no, it's gone through the process now and it will continue to keep going through the process as new information goes into CODIS, of course. Her exact words to me today was there was no hit yet on anything. I thought that was for sure was my son's shoe.

I really did. I mean, it's devastating. For 14 years, I waited for that phone call to come and it's hard. Not that I wanted that DNA to be my son. I didn't want that to happen. But if it would provide the closure that's needed to move on, because we can't move on. We can't. We've tried. It touches our lives in every way, in every way. You could accept it because death is inevitable. We all know we will expire one day.

Hopefully not your children before you, but things happen. And you can accept it. You learn to live with it. But when there are no answers and you keep searching and you keep searching and you keep looking to everything. I mean, the smallest thing. Is this a sign? Driving down the street. I saw a boy, sort of Frank, that looked just like Cameron. Combed his hair just like Cameron. Wore the same kind of clothes just like Cameron. Backpack like Cameron. We had

We had to do a double take back and forth two or three times past this person to look at him. And then finally, Frank had to stop and get out to verify that it wasn't him. I mean, there's torture. It's absolute torture.

Over the course of many months, as we worked with Cameron's loved ones, they all spoke about these remains and how conflicted they felt. They wanted a match so badly, so that there would be some sort of end to all of this not knowing. But they also didn't want Cameron to be gone. This is something that families of the missing go through all the time. Every time they hear a body has been found or some bones were recovered, it starts this cycle again. Could it be their missing loved one? If

If so, how could that fit into the puzzle? Now, Doreen is starting at square one all over again. She's taken those bones and that remote trail off of her puzzle, because she now knows that those pieces belong on another family's puzzle.

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Starting at the beginning again, Doreen goes back to how this all started, with that panicked call from Kelly before Cameron was even missing. How does that fit into the puzzle?

A few months after that, it hit me how full of drama she was. He was supposed to call her at 530. It was only a little before six when she started panicking. And the way she was panicking, now that I look back, it was an act. There's no doubt in my mind that this was a pre-staged act. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I feel like there's something wrong. I feel like there's something wrong. I know Cameron's gone. I just know it. I just know it.

It's very quiet up there. You make a noise, everybody hears it. I mean, you hear it. To boil it down, a ruckus had to occur that night. And if it did, I mean, there's a story about a shovel that was covered with Cameron's blood from Ryan hitting him with the shovel. I remember seeing the shovel when I was up there. All these little things are just starting to add up. But my gut, and I trust my gut, tells me that she knows more than she's saying.

I hate to say it, but even after his disappearance, of course, we went up there and everything. And then the detectives took me aside and they said, Doreen, we've got a case here where we're looking at seven, maybe eight different guys that Kelly is involved with.

When investigators spoke to Kelly via phone in 2022 to inquire about what shoes Cameron wore, they also asked her about information Doreen had recently given them, that Kelly had allegedly said that she witnessed Ryan hit Cameron in the head with a shovel on the day he went missing. Kelly refuted that and said she was still in rehab when Cameron disappeared.

but that another couple had informed her that they saw Ryan attack Cameron with a shovel. Though according to these witnesses, he only threatened Cameron with a shovel. Ryan didn't actually strike him with it. This story about the shovel has remained somewhat consistent, but there have been variations in the story. When we spoke to Kelly, she brought it up.

I heard stories about when Cameron went missing. Cameron threw me in a treatment center because I was having panic attacks. I went to Pineview. My friend, Josh, when I came back from Pineview and my life was ruined, basically, Josh, I've known since grade school. He was one of my friends. He looked after me like I was his little sister. He was like my big brother.

ran into him after I lost my daughter and everything he pulled me to the car he Josh yeah he's a prankster but I knew for a fact Josh was not fucking around I knew he was serious he's like Kelly when you're in that treatment center I went to sell Ryan an ounce of pot that

then it was illegal so it was a big deal you know what I mean I couldn't really say anything because pot was illegal at the time it's not like nowadays where you can smoke it Josh is like Kelly I go up to the house and I guess Josh caught Ryan attacking Cameron was a shovel Josh had to smoke

physically stop Ryan from it. That's what Josh told me. How true it is. But in the end, the way my friend was telling me this, still to this day, I believe him. I believe Josh. I believe Ryan did that. Cameron was only, what, 4'9"? Ryan was 6'3". Did Ryan and him get into a fight? Did Ryan kill him?

Do I believe Ryan has something to do with it? My heart and my gut tell me, but do I have proof? No. I wish I did. I really do. One of Doreen's greatest frustrations throughout the last 14 years have been the inconsistent stories that she's heard. It's nearly impossible to create a firm timeline when stories shift dramatically from one day to the next.

She told me that Ryan had hit Cameron in the head with a shovel, that he hit his head against the rock. But yeah, we have no proof. We know that Kelly is a consistent liar. She believes her own lies. That was part of the excuse why the detectives didn't want to put her under a lie detector test, because he stated to me that she...

is a compulsive liar and that she believes her own life. So putting her through a test like that would do no good. And I think that's what makes this case worse is that you get somebody who can make up these stories. She told me she knocked out Donna Tyree, who was a CPS worker that took Sabrina. She told me she punched her and beat her up. I asked Donna and Donna doesn't know, Doreen, that never happened. It's hard to sort the lies.

Doreen mentioned that she was frustrated that Kelly was never given a polygraph. We know that polygraphs can be unreliable, and they aren't admissible in court. However, law enforcement still utilizes them as a tool. When we spoke to Kelly, she claimed that everyone living at the property when Cameron vanished had been offered to take one, except Ryan.

They suspected him, but they didn't do shit like they were supposed to. I'm sorry, but they did not do their job right. That's how I feel. They offered me a polygraph test. My sister, my great grandmother, they offered everyone a polygraph test. Everyone said yes, except Ryan. What you got to hide?

In a 2013 email from an investigator to Doreen, he said the following about why Kelly was never administered a polygraph. Quote, There was never a good time to give Kelly a polygraph exam, as she was always on something, and that would defeat the examination. I don't think she would be a good candidate for an exam anyway, because she is a pathological liar. Casey agreed to take an exam, but it was never scheduled. In both the records we obtained and the email correspondence we reviewed,

We never came across any information to confirm that anyone was offered a chance to take a polygraph except Casey and Cameron's friend Eric, who was mentioned briefly earlier in this episode. So who is Eric? When Kelly was contacted about that shoe that was found with the bones, the investigator also asked her about someone named Eric and a story about Eric saying he saw Cameron on January 5th or 6th, 2011, months after he was reported missing.

Now, there were a couple of earlier mentions of Eric in the police records, but they lacked context. The first one was in March 2011, and it says they were trying to contact Eric to inquire about taking a polygraph. They went to Eric's mother's residence and asked to speak to her son. She said Eric didn't want to speak with investigators or cooperate any further because he was upset about his last contact with the sheriff's office due to the questions he was asked.

The 2022 report documents that Kelly said Eric was a friend of hers, but he never told anyone that he had seen Cameron. She claimed Eric told her that he never said that. The investigator advised Kelly that during a recorded interview, Eric had told them that he saw Cameron. Kelly responded that Eric probably said that just to piss off Doreen. She promised to contact Eric and ask about this.

In March of 2022, they phoned Kelly once again. She stated that she had been in contact with Eric and he didn't wish to speak to investigators, and she had no phone number or location for him.

While reviewing email correspondence between Doreen and investigators, we found a 2013 email from a cold case investigator where he mentioned reading a transcript of a conversation with Eric. He said,

and gave specific details about it. But later in your conversation, he talks as if Cam got murdered. I need to talk to him again, but don't have his phone number. I went to his house in May and had a long talk with his mother and left my card with her. He called me a few days later and left a message about Kelly being in jail, but didn't leave his phone number. There weren't any further conversations with or about Eric documented in the records we received. When we spoke to Kelly, we asked her for her take on Eric.

and the story of him allegedly saying he had seen Cameron in 2011. Eric? Yeah, that was one of his best friends. He's known Cameron for a good 30 years now, if Cameron was still around. He knew him a good 20 years before I even came around.

Eric was the only one of his friends, the only one out of his side that was there for me after he went missing. The only one that didn't accuse me of killing him. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm still best friends with Eric to this day. Doreen was trying to say that Eric seen Cameron and went fishing with him and all this kind of shit. That was a lie. And they found out it was a lie, so they crossed it out. Also, they said that I...

I was sleeping with this man and I've never slept.

So there's just a lot of stuff that was a lie. And when they investigated and found out the truth, you see what I'm saying? Doreen tried to say that Eric told her that they were fishing together and all this kind of stuff. And that Eric claimed that. When I called Eric and I asked Eric, Eric's like, I didn't see Cameron. I have no idea. That woman is batshit crazy is what he said. He got mad because they were trying to accuse me and him of having an affair.

which was not true. So Eric's like, there's the type of person, he's like, no, I'm not talking to you guys. You're just going to twist my story around and call me a liar. So no, Eric already said to him what he needed to say. He told him what he knew and that's all he knew. And then they turned around and tried to accuse him of having an affair with me. So yeah, he was pretty salty about the situation. And any man would have been, especially when that man was his best friend.

Last time I spoke to Eric, it was probably three days ago. He calls and texts up on me because I'm Cameron's baby mom and his best friend went missing. So yeah, that man does what any good friend would do and call and make sure his mother's child is okay.

In June of 2023, there was yet another development in the case. An Instagram reel was posted that showed a man in San Francisco who looked a lot like Cameron. Doreen explained that it was Eric who had said he had seen Cameron on that reel in 2023.

Cameron found out that Eric was sleeping with Kelly. That put a problem between the two of them. After Cam went missing, I brought her here to Oregon to spend some time with the baby and stuff. Well, she gets a phone call on her phone and she goes outside to talk. And then she comes back in and she goes, oh, I just talked with Eric. And Eric says, him and Cam went fishing last weekend. And I went, what? Cam's been missing by this time probably a few months. He goes, yeah.

Yeah, they went fishing together. Some guy in a white car dropped Cameron off at his house and they went to Lake Pleasant fishing. Cops are aware of this. The cops have been trying to contact Eric. They actually went down to the valley to interview him and he refused to be interviewed. He wouldn't talk with them. They asked him to do a lie detector and he said, no. We got along so good and Eric hated me now. I mean, he was outraged with me now. Kelly convinced him that I had stolen the baby.

when she went right with me to court and he hated me. I mean, I think he still does. You know, that's fine. You can believe what you want, but I didn't steal her. She was found in the drug house. But anyway, long story short, they never got any further on that because they couldn't question him. He just wouldn't cooperate. The way he would talk to me about Cameron and some of his conversations were like, well, Cameron is dead. You need to know that. And then the other time, no, I saw him. So I don't know. I

I don't understand what kind of a game he was playing or why. Last July, he did it again. He called and texted me first. He goes, I've got news. I found Cameron. And I'm going like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So Sabrina sat in here with me and we talked to Eric. And Eric showed us a video of a person that looked so much like Cameron. And so they found him in the Tenderloin District on a YouTube video. And I'm telling you, this looked like my son. We went to San Francisco to investigate that. Turned out it wasn't him.

As we worked with Cameron's loved ones over a period of months, we had documents that Doreen requested and received, and we also had done our own record requests, though much of what we received was the same as what Doreen already had. Doreen mentioned a cold case investigator, Chuck Jones, who came to work on the case after the investigation went cold. She had gotten close to him and knew that he had done a considerable amount of work on Cameron's case.

Unfortunately, none of his reports were in the records either of us had obtained. However, while reviewing the records over and over with a fine-tooth comb, we noticed in our records that there was a brief note from 2021. It said that upon reviewing the case, they found five supplemental reports from cold case investigator Chuck Jones.

They ranged from 2013 to 2015. They hadn't been entered previously, but they were now attaching them to the case, though they weren't included in the records we received. We pointed this out to Doreen, and she decided to ask for those reports specifically. When Doreen received them, she told us she was shocked.

You're not going to believe when you start to read this supplemental report from Chuck. It started tearing me apart. I couldn't go any further. Yeah, it was a lot more brutal than I expected. I knew about the freezer that broke down and the big garbage bags that smelled bad. Somebody called in and said that, you know, there was plastic bags. They were asked to remove by Kelly because their supposed freezer stopped working.

So this guy came to take the bags away and he said they were very suspicious. He knew Cameron was missing. He called the police right away and made a statement that it had a bad odor to it. And I guess that's probably what prompted them to search the dump. I think this goes into a lot more detail because I think what happened was there was the initial report and then I guess Chuck went back.

As Doreen mentioned, Chuck Jones re-interviewed the witness who had told investigators very early on that they had helped Kelly and her mother, Jessie, move heavy bags. He told Chuck Jones that he was initially asked to help move a TV from a trailer into the main house. Then they asked him to help move three black trash bags that weighed about 40 pounds each into the back of a pickup truck.

He reiterated what he had said several years prior, that one bag ripped and a gooey substance leaked out. He knew that Cameron was missing, and he was suspicious of the bags. So he asked them what was in them. He was told that it was food from a freezer that had broken down, and they had to take the bags to the dump. The witness believed that this happened in early July 2010. The investigator asked if he saw a deep freezer well inside the house. He said no.

The investigator then asked if he had seen Louise, and he said he only saw Kelly and Jesse.

Chuck Jones asked why they would have wanted the bags in the truck instead of the trash can. The witness said that the bags probably would have fit into the trash can, but they would have filled it up, and the trash had already been collected for the week. He went on to speculate that the bags already had a bad odor and would have really stunk after a few more days, which could have made other residents in the area suspicious, considering that everyone knew that Cameron was missing. He believed that was likely why they chose to take them to the dump.

There's another interview with someone who had hired Cameron and Ryan to work for them. He said he hired Cameron after Kelly literally begged him on her knees. She said they needed money to feed the baby. From his home, he could see the trailer that Cameron and Kelly lived in and recalled that he often witnessed them arguing. Chuck Jones asked about Cameron's relationship with Ryan. The witness said that the two couldn't work together.

They always wanted to know what the other was saying about them. And Ryan would typically say, what is that little prick Cameron saying about me? If he says anything bad, I will beat that little son of a bitch to death.

He also said that Cameron always talked about how much Ryan hated him. When asked if he knew what was the source of the bad blood between them, he said that he didn't know other than what Cameron said about Ryan, and that he verbally abused him, and the fact that Ryan and Casey got privileges to stay in the main house, while Cameron and Kelly were stuck out in the trailer.

The witness never actually saw the two of them get into a physical altercation. He described Cameron as the type to slash your tires to get even with you, and Ryan as the type who would physically beat you up, and that Ryan had a real mean streak in him. However, when asked what he thought may have happened to Cameron, he said he thought he could have taken his own life.

Chuck Jones inquired as to why he believed that, and he stated that Cameron suffered through a lot of pain due to a car accident and had to take a lot of medications to get through it. He recalled Cameron mentioning suicide once, and he stated that he would just take a handful of pills and go to sleep. Chuck Jones asked about Kelly's mother, Jessie, and the man said that he knew Jessie when they were younger, and Kelly had told him that her mother was currently dating the biggest meth dealer in the Heber Overguard area.

There's a summary of an interview that Chuck Jones conducted with yet another witness. This man said he came to meet Cameron after Kelly asked him to give Cameron work at his repair shop. She said they needed money for their baby. He said that Cameron was a hard worker and knew a lot about vehicles. When asked what Kelly told him about Cameron's disappearance, he said just that he left without his medications and that she believed Ryan had killed Cameron.

Kelly also told him that she traveled to Phoenix to speak with Cameron's friend, Sean. And while she was there, Sean's wife was standing behind him listening. And Sean kept looking up the steps, as if someone was up there. When asked who Kelly associated with after Cameron vanished, he said a man named Grant, whom he believed was her new boyfriend.

Chuck Jones asked the witness what he believed happened to Cameron. He said it was possible that Kelly killed him. That theory was based on a comment she made to him one day. She allegedly said, I will kill him if you get rid of the body. He claimed that he was shocked to hear her say that. On another occasion, he alleged that Kelly claimed that she had a friend by the name of Cecil who would do anything for her, but he didn't have knowledge of who that person was.

This witness admitted that later in 2010, he and Kelly began engaging in a sexual relationship. That fall, he said Kelly came over one day and said, You won't believe who I ran into. She told him that while she was at a Walmart in Payson, Arizona to buy condoms, she ran into Cameron, and he was with a scraggy-looking woman. She said she spoke to Cameron at the Walmart and told him that she was buying condoms because she was going over to sleep with this witness.

Prior to this, he said Kelly told him that she was receiving text messages from Cameron. In late 2010, the witness said Kelly moved away to Phoenix with a guy named Josh. They weren't seeing one another after this time, but would sometimes chat via text. The last time the witness recalled ever seeing Kelly was in June of 2011, a year after Cameron had vanished.

The final thing mentioned was that Chuck Jones contacted Pineview regarding Kelly's stay there during the weekend that Cameron went missing. They were able to confirm that Kelly was, in fact, a patient there in June 2010. But that's all it says about the time frame. And they were told that if law enforcement wanted to access patient records, they would have to get a court order. While Coconino County handed over these supplements to Doreen, it looks like there may be more that she still hasn't received.

The note we found about these records being located in 2021 stated that the supplements were from 2013 to 2015. However, the reports we just shared with you were all from 2013. Going through this process with Doreen, we compared notes as we uncovered new things, and that helped her recall tidbits of memories. In the original file, there weren't many mentions of Kelly's mother, Jessie. Only a brief note about the bags, and Ryan stating that Jessie was mad at Cameron for keeping her granddaughter from her.

The reports from Chuck Jones had more information about the freezer story, and reading over what Ryan said again, about how he and Cameron didn't want their kids around Jesse, and that Ryan went and pointed out drug houses right before fleeing, specifically pointing out Jesse's home, Doreen began to wonder if there was more to that.

It's very obvious in the comments I read today in these supplemental reports that there was a very bad hostility between the two of them to go turn in his friends before he takes off to Florida. Just maybe. I thought about this in every way I possibly could. He did take off to Florida because now he knew that once he turned them in, that maybe his life would be in jeopardy. I thought about that. But then I thought, no, because according to him, he wasn't in fear that those guys were going to come after him for turning them in. Jeff,

Jessie is definitely another character in herself. Oh my God, she was always a meth addict. Cameron and her, oh God, hated each other because Cameron would not allow the baby to go to her house because of the mask.

While reviewing correspondence between Doreen and Chuck Jones from 2013, he asked Doreen about the relationship between Kelly and her mother, Jessie, after Doreen mentioned that they seemed to develop a close bond after Cameron vanished. This was strange to Doreen because she had known Kelly for years, and she and her mother never seemed to get along. Chuck asked, how did you determine that Kelly and her mom became close after Cam disappeared? I'm going to try to find Jessie and talk to her.

Doreen replied, Thinking this through, Doreen remembered a time when she had a run-in with Jesse, before Cameron even disappeared.

When I had met Jessie at that dollar store, the only time I'd ever met her, she was very threatening to me. I'd never met her before. I'd never seen her before. But I know that because Cameron kept saying from the beginning, right when Sabrina was born, he forbid that baby to be taken to Jessie's house because of the meth. When she confronted me and started screaming at me at the dollar store up there, your son, well, let me see the baby.

Cameron had already told me there was some really bad shit going on at that house. He said, the baby's not going there. So he stopped Kelly from taking the baby there. And after that incident in the dollar store, I was scared, actually. I remember for a couple of days thinking I would run into this woman again, and I didn't want to. I've thought about just a perfect stranger. I put all these into my head as scenarios of what could have happened. Let's just go with the scenario. I hadn't thought about this one. Cameron

Cameron wouldn't allow the baby to be ever around Jesse, and that's taking her grandchild away. Cameron didn't have just one enemy there. He had Jesse. Because she was older and strung out, I just didn't even consider her. But the freezer. Now that you are mentioning Ryan was afraid of them, and then Kelly keeps saying Ryan did it. She's pointing the fingers at Ryan, maybe, covering up for her mom. Get Kelly off the scene, put her in rehab.

basically kind of point fingers at Ryan. She had access to really bad people. But then how does that tie into Ryan? Use him as a scapegoat, but maybe he was scared of them because he knew he was going to be pointed at, or maybe he oversaw something or overheard something. There's so many different scenarios, but you got to go with the logical one. You got to go with the one once you know all the facts. But again, finding those facts to be truthful, that

That in itself is challenging. I mean... Is it possible that Jesse could have been behind Cameron's disappearance and the finger was purposely pointed at Ryan? Jesse has since passed away, so she isn't here for us to ask questions today. And we found no reports documenting that Jesse was ever interviewed.

Last weekend, Doreen decided to find her old cell phones that she's had since 2010 so that she could charge them up to see if they had any useful information stored on them. She found some further correspondence with investigator Chuck Jones. There was a message about that voicemail Cameron left for Doreen's stepmother. Doreen has been under the impression that was left on Saturday, June 26th. That's the one thing that Doreen has hung on to, to prove that Cameron was alive on Saturday the 26th.

The other piece of information we have comes from Kelly's great-grandmother, who said she saw Cameron that evening when he dropped Sabrina off with her. But there isn't anything else from an unrelated party. Doreen found an email from Chuck that referenced that voicemail, and Chuck stated, It was left on Friday, June 25, 2010, at 6.58 p.m.

This voicemail is not referenced in any other reports we obtained, so if this is true, then it throws the entire timeline into question once again. Could that have simply been a typo? Ever since Cameron went missing, Doreen has felt that she's had the carpet ripped out from under her over and over again. Things she pulled together and believed were facts later become questionable, and how can you ever find the truth without a solid foundation to build upon?

While working to cover Cameron, we contacted the Coconino County Sheriff's Office to request an interview or a statement regarding the investigation into Cameron's disappearance. Their public information officer said, We're not doing any interviews on this case at this time. We continue to follow up on any leads and or tips we receive. They referred us to a press release from June 2024 that said,

This week marks the 14th anniversary of the disappearance of Cameron John Sequeira from the Forest Lakes community. The Coconino County Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigations Division and Cold Case Squad are requesting assistance from the public in locating missing person Cameron Sequeira. Mr. Sequeira was last seen at his residence on Bluebird Circle in Forest Lakes, Arizona on June 26, 2010, at 8.30 p.m. He reportedly left his residence on foot with his dog.

Mr. Sequeira's dog returned to the residence on June 28, 2010. The area surrounding the neighborhood was searched extensively by Coconino County Sheriff's Office search and rescue units. Detectives conducted a thorough investigation into the case and have exhausted all leads to determine what happened to Cameron and or a reason for his disappearance. The Coconino County Sheriff's Office is requesting assistance from the public to determine the whereabouts of Cameron Sequeira.

14 years of searching for answers has had a devastating impact on his loved ones. Cameron's daughter Sabrina is now a teenager. She's grown up with Frank and Doreen. Her father is missing, and Doreen said that Kelly hasn't ever pulled it together enough to be a consistent presence in her life.

She's now 16. She understands her mom's involvement with drugs. I won't keep them two apart because it's not my job to do that. Sabrina needs to know her mom. So Kelly does from time to time call Sabrina and she keeps saying she's going to be the mom that she never was. Kelly would send pictures of all these new babies.

Oh, to Sabrina, you know, look, look at your new sister, look at your new brother. Sabrina would just sit and melt and cry. How come she could be a mom to them, but she's not a mom to me? Sabrina has grown up with Doreen and Frank as her support system. But that isn't the same as having both of your parents and your grandparents in your life. We also spoke to Sabrina, and she said that it's been a tough road for her.

School was hard. Being out in general was hard because I would see kids, mostly daughters with their dads, and then I'd get sad. And it was just like a constant reminder, kind of like, oh, well, I don't have a dad.

I've had moments where I was really curious about it and then next where I didn't want anything to do with it. For the most part, I've always been like wanting to know. Every day things change. My perspective on life changes. Right now, I just want what is right.

I just want the right thing to be done, whether it be karma, whether it be justice. I just want it to feel right. I don't like it when automatically people be like, well, all I heard was he loved you, so he must have loved you. Like, yeah, that's a really good possibility. But you don't know that, though. So don't tell me that you know, because you don't. No one knows.

He may have loved me so dearly, but you never know. He could have just had something going on, had something growing in him that he started to hate in me or just realized that he wasn't happy. It's not always what it seems like.

People who don't have a father or a mother don't really have anyone to look up but themselves. Because I always saw my grandpa as my grandpa. It's a different kind of feeling. And so I mostly felt the need to try to take care of myself because it's not my grandpa's job to take care of me.

It was my mom and dad, but my mom shoved the burden and the caregiving to her. It's hard for people who have both parents in their lives or even one parent in their life to understand what it's like to feel like everyone's gone. You feel alone a lot. It's very depressing. You become a parent. You need to be there for your child.

While some believe that Kelly knows more about what happened to Cameron, Kelly said that Cameron's disappearance has had a profound impact on her life as well. I think Cameron is the reason why I can't love now. I try. Every relationship I've ever been in hasn't worked out. Do you really want to know what this has done to me? I've never been the same person. Ever. I have no answers. I have no closure. And I lost my daughter over this shit.

I think of Cameron and her every fucking day. And in the end, what happened is Darlene, his mom, his dad, and everyone turned against me and called me a murderer. I was blamed for Cameron's murder.

Sabrina, my daughter is 16 years old now. You know she has a brother and a sister that is missing their older sister because of all of this. My babies have to miss out on siblings because of this.

I lost my world. My whole fucking world. Do you have any idea what kind of mindfuck? In the end, you're being accused and a suspect. My 16-year-old daughter hates me because I can't find her daddy. Do you know what this has done to me? Lose your whole world. End up on the streets of Phoenix.

because you don't know what to do. You just want to get out of the situation because if you don't, it's just too much. Yeah, I did become a drug addict. I'm not going to lie. Yes, I did. But you know what? It wasn't because I wanted to. I didn't want to feel it. My family and his family turned against me. And still to this day, I'm still all alone.

You think they talk to me? You think my family talks to me because of this? My daughter hates me because of this. You have no idea what was taken from my daughter, taken from me. I haven't talked about this in a long time. Do you know what kind of nightmares I have? It's not even nightmares to me. It feels real. It feels like it's happening. I don't have them like I used to. There's once in a while where...

I wake up and I feel like it just happened yesterday. And it's not fun. You learn to deal with it. You learn to live with it. I'm not going to lie. When you hit me up, brought back a lot of shit. It's like opening the scar again. It's like a C-section and you're getting another one. You're cutting over the same scar. You're opening old wounds and obviously they'll heal again. Not just that. It's part of the healing process, right? Being heard.

Cameron is important enough. He wasn't perfect, but you know what? He wasn't bad either. He didn't deserve this. I'm going to get to the bottom of this. He needs to be looked for because he is an important person. Very important. You just listening to me and me knowing you're real and trying to get Cameron's story out there after 14 years, that means a lot.

There are many theories about what may have happened to Cameron. Did Ryan harm him and then flee the state? Did Cameron end his own life? Did Kelly's mother or someone Kelly was seeing have something to do with this? In law enforcement records, it's documented that Kelly told them initially that she believed Cameron took his own life. And Doreen was told that he had tried to harm himself when he was incarcerated for an evening after an altercation. But they let him go the following morning, though Doreen has never been able to find documentation of this.

When we spoke to Kelly, she didn't say that she believed Cameron had harmed himself. This has left Doreen to wonder if Kelly's mentions of suicide were just stories to get everyone to believe that Cameron simply took off to harm himself. Or is that a real possibility? And Cameron has just never been found.

Usually I can pull records up from Arizona like I found Casey was in jail. Usually I can do that. And with this, I couldn't find anything when that incident had happened because I really firmly believe that if my son tried to commit suicide in there,

They should have gotten help. And if that's the case, why didn't they? So many things I think could have changed the outcome of this. I still don't understand. Kelly kept saying Cameron was going to commit suicide. Cameron was going to commit suicide. But here's the thing. I don't think he would have left Sabrina like that. I really know. He loved his dog and he loved her. And my son, when he loved, he loved, he loved. You can tell by the years he put up with Kelly's drugs and the boyfriends and

He loved her enough to put up with it. I mean, he would just put up with it. That's my son's nature. Kelly said she's always felt in her heart that Ryan did something to Cameron. But she holds on to the possibility that he chose to walk away, as far-fetched as that may seem. Cameron still, honestly, he still could be out there. Could have Ryan killed him? Yes, absolutely he could have. But could Cameron have just walked off? Absolutely too. Would he have...

I think he loved his daughter way too much. The way he was with Sabrina, no. Sabrina was his world. He would not have just walked out on her. I believe that to this day. Yeah, we argued, we fight, but it wasn't that bad to where he would have abandoned his daughter. No.

Could he be out there? I pray to God. Honestly, I would have rather if him just left. I pray to God every day that's what he did. I would rather that Sabrina still have her daddy because in the end, at least, he's still alive because he's a good person.

I know Ryan did something to him. I know. You know that feeling that you get. It's not just in your gut. It's in your gut and shoots all the way up to your heart. You just sense it. When I went around Ryan, he was weird. Then all of a sudden, three, four years after I'm on the street, I lose everything. Ryan calls me and asks me if I'm okay. He just found God.

The conversation I last had with Ryan was really weird. What do you mean you found God? What are you repenting on, is how I felt. What did you do? I'm trying to protect you. I'm your big brother. I'm on the streets with nothing because I lost everything because Cameron went missing. Why are you reaching out to me like this? I kept in contact with Ryan.

For my own benefits. You know what I mean? I have a feeling that that man did something. And I try to keep close tabs. You know how they say keep your friends close, enemies closer? That's exactly what I was doing. Then all of a sudden, no Facebook, nothing. He literally like vanished. I think he went in hiding.

When Ryan came back from that trip, I got into his face in front of God and everybody. What did you do with Cameron? I didn't ask him. I accused him. What did you do with him? Ryan couldn't let me straighten the eye.

You know, when you feel like someone's lying to you, but they don't have the heart to tell you because they know what they did is wrong. That's how it felt. A lot of people were afraid of Ryan. I wasn't. It's like, what are you going to do to me that you already haven't done? What, you're going to kill me too? That's how I felt. I'm the only one that actually confronted Ryan to his face like that. It scared the living daylights out of my great-grandma. My great-grandma was afraid of him.

Dorian believes that foul play occurred here, and that it may have been premeditated, considering that Kelly had sounded the alarm well before Cameron actually disappeared. Frank wonders about many things that have happened, and stories they were told, which never seem to add up to anything cohesive.

Oh, I've always questioned how much she knows. The police said every time they talked to Kelly, it was a different story. She couldn't remember what she lied about in the last visit. See, when we got there, there was a shovel and stuff leaning against the garage door. Like somebody could have picked it up and beat somebody with it. Cam and this guy Ryan didn't get along too good.

From where we were in the mountains of Arizona, there was this really roundabout way of getting to Phoenix, to the airport. He snatches the baby out, hops in his truck, and attempted to drive to the airport. And the ring was found in Ryan's trailer. I mean, it was his dad's ring. He wore it all the time.

And then Ryan says he found it out in the driveway. At the center of the story, we had Cameron and his dog disappearing. Then later we learned that Ryan and Casey's dog Tipsy also went missing. Then Ryan was gone too. Considering what we've learned about Ryan's history with dogs, Frank can't help but wonder if Cameron witnessed something, and that's why his son is missing today.

What I think happened, this is just an idea of mine. I kind of think Cam came upon him burying that dog and got beat to death with a shovel. That's my opinion on what I think could have happened. He would have said something. That's why I think he might have came upon them burying that dog on the property somewhere there. We don't know what happened to his dog.

So what happened to Cameron Sequeira in late June of 2010? Did he really walk away with his dog after dropping Sabrina off and just never came back? Was there some type of accident out there? Could Cameron have harmed himself? Or was Cameron the victim of foul play? It's easy to understand why Cameron's parents became suspicious after learning that Ryan had fled the area with his son. And the stories from Kelly kept shifting with time.

In her quest for answers, Dorian has been met with silence from many of those who had been close friends of Cameron's. When she decided that she was going to submit Cameron's case to the show, she contacted them hoping they would contribute in some way. But unfortunately, they declined. That has led her to wonder if they know more. Dorian believes that her son's case is solvable. But she also acknowledges that there's so much that you need to pick through in order to find out which story is the actual truth.

In a case like this, all it could take would be for one person to decide to do the right thing. Cameron's loved ones are seeking the answers to the lingering questions that haunt them. What happened to Cameron and why? They're hoping that someone out there listening will find it in their heart to come forward.

If you have any information regarding the disappearance of Cameron Sequeira, please call the Coconino County Sheriff's Office at 928-774-4523 or 1-800-338-7888. If you'd like to remain anonymous, you can call Silent Witness at 928-774-6111.

I don't know.

I don't know, it probably means absolutely nothing. But the fact that the detective, when you look at certain things the detective has asked Ryan, like the dog, he seems to bring that up a lot. And then there's something there, and maybe the reason why they didn't hassle Ryan

is because they really didn't feel Ryan did it. Maybe they thought Jesse had something to do with it because now Ryan is also saying, "Uh-uh, I don't want my kids around you either." Now you've got Cameron saying, "You can't see this kid." And now her other daughter, Casey's boyfriend is saying, or husband, "You can't see the kids either."

And I hope you really do get my story out there because you know what? One person, maybe not important to the world, but he was important to me, Sabrina, Doreen. And I hope just by getting this story out there, maybe someone will be like, hey, I've seen this. It means a lot that someone actually cares enough to hear me. This is actually very...

very comforting to know that there's someone that actually gives a shit out there. I did contact Eric about the podcast. I asked Eric and he said no. And then I asked Sean, who was Cameron's very good friend. In fact, him and Sean were the ones that were together when Cameron got hit by the car. And he doesn't want to. So...

I think Eric is trying to make everybody think that Cameron is still out there. I can't think of any other reason why he would say he went fishing with my son months after. That brings us to the end of episode 462. I'd like to thank everyone who spoke with us for this story. If you have a missing loved one that you'd like to have featured on the show, there's a case submission form at thevanishedpodcast.com.

If you'd like to join in on the discussion, there's a page and discussion group on Facebook. You can also find us on Instagram. If you like our show, please give us a five-star rating and review. You can also support the show by contributing on Patreon, where you can get early and ad-free episodes. Be sure to tune in next week. We'll be covering a case from Washington. Thanks for listening.

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