Replay: Barbara Cotton Part 2 - A Tangled Web
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I don't think anybody even knows what to think anymore. It's like everything you thought you knew about this case probably isn't necessarily as relevant as you thought. For instance, like Barb last being seen walking into the park. To my knowledge, that's not the last time she was seen. You know, but that's the most widely shared story about her disappearance.

I know things were a lot different back then, and people don't understand that, just at day and age, you know? My mom and Barb didn't get along real well, I know that. But teenagers usually don't get along with their parents a whole good, real good most of the time. But my mom had different ways about her, what is actually truth about different stuff, because she kept a lot of stuff secret. It just seemed like, I guess, what was in the past is in the past, no need to talk about it now.

I'd like to see her come back and I'd just like to put my arms around her and tell her how much I loved her and missed her. I guess that's why I guess I'd rather have that hope than a body. But on the flip side, like I said, I'd like to see something come to justice if that's the truth, if they actually killed her.

In April of 1981, 15-year-old Barbara Cotton disappeared from Williston, North Dakota. Barbara was a bright young woman with plans for her future. She was saving for her first apartment that she planned to rent when she turned 16 in the fall. But Barb's dreams came to a screeching halt on the chilly spring evening when she vanished. Piecing together even the most basic clues today is difficult. Who last saw Barb and at what time?

And how can we even confirm these things now? There are conflicting stories and big pieces of the puzzle missing. But now more than ever before, people are invested in finding out what happened to Barb Cotton. I'm Marissa, and from Wondery, this is episode 362 of The Vanished, part two of Barbara Cotton's story.

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Yesterday, we brought you part one of our coverage of Barbara Cotton's story. You learned about Barb's life, her relationships with friends and family, and the known circumstances surrounding her disappearance, which can be murky and difficult to piece together.

Was Barb last seen with this mystery boyfriend, Stacy, walking into Recreation Park? Or was she last seen at a party that night? Could both things be true? Could she have been at that party with her boyfriend, and then they parted ways after in Recreation Park? Or could it be the other way around? Could they have parted ways at Recreation Park and then Barb showed up at a party later on? Unfortunately, we can't answer these questions.

The only thing we're certain of is that Barb disappeared and hasn't been found in over 41 years. We left off at the end of part one discussing how they learned that Barb may have been at a party on the night of her disappearance. This was something that had been erased from the narrative for many years. But Louise had reported this to the police early on, that Stacey last saw Barb when they parted at Recreation Park, and then Barb was seen later at a party around 10 p.m.,

While speaking with James, the host of Dakota Spotlight, he told us why this part of the timeline is strange. What is very interesting is that the official sort of narrative of this story online and everywhere has been she had dinner downtown with a friend and walks home and there's never been any mention of a party. And what's even more interesting is that...

In my interview with Wilson PD, that's when we learned about this party.

However, Barbara's siblings, Kent and Kathy anyway, have no recollection of ever being told that their sister was at a party. And I mean, all families are different and dynamics are different. And obviously, it seems like Louise Cotton was either shielding her kids from information or something. But still, I just want to feel like

They would know the narrative of Barbara's last movements, and they'd never heard of this party. On the other hand, we've interviewed someone who remembers meeting Barbara at a party she had. So I don't know why Louise or the person she spoke to would make that up.

It is odd that no one else seemed to know about Barb being at a party. James spoke to a woman who believes that Barb may have been at her apartment on the night she disappeared. She frequently had parties there around this time. She just can't be certain that it was that very night. She also said that Louise called her for months, looking to see if she knew anything.

In a 1985 article in the Bismarck Tribune, Louise is quoted as saying that she came home from work that night around 11 p.m. and talked to Barb. Barb stated that she would be home soon because she was scheduled to work the following morning at Country Kitchen. Did Barb call Louise from the party that night around 11 p.m., stating that she would be home but never made it?

The woman who hosted a party at her apartment and her sister both remember Barb being at a party there with a boy. They didn't know who he was. They were shown a photo of Stacey Werder. The man Louise says Barb was dating, and they believe that it could have been him, but they can't be certain. One of the sisters remembers Barb leaving the party with the boy and that he returned later without her. She asked him where Barb went and he said she got a ride.

The other sister has a memory of the boy coming back the next day and asking where Barb was. Learning about the party has possibly given us some further clues as to how the evening unfolded, if that was in fact the night that Barb disappeared.

There are different versions of stories about what occurred that evening. She was seen at Cakes and Cones. Then she parted ways with her boyfriend at Recreation Park, and now a party. Lisa explained that she's tried to piece together a timeline of that night the best that she can, while also keeping an open mind, as the story has continued to shift and evolve with time.

Barb probably was at a restaurant and she was probably at a restaurant with Stacy Werger. And from there, it gets kind of fuzzy because, you know, we have an article saying that Barb's mom saw her downtown, which Barb's mom at the time was working at a Chinese restaurant downtown. So it's like Barb and Stacy could have stopped in there and maybe they were going to Cakes and Cones. And she would not have gotten home until...

10:30, 11 o'clock, I believe, if I'm not mistaken.

Louise would not have gotten home. The article said that Louise spoke to her last around 11 p.m. and that she was coming home. She had to work in the morning. She bussed tables at a restaurant. Either Barb was at home at that time or maybe Louise called around or maybe Barb called home from maybe a party. The part about Stacey and her parting ways at the Plainsman, it's like they could have parted ways maybe yesterday

When they were downtown, maybe Barb went home to get ready for the party. Or maybe it was after the party. And maybe that's where they split and Barb was walking home after the party. We don't actually know what time that was. All of the stuff that is routinely reported on it is they had dinner and then he watched her walk home from Recreation Park. Well, I haven't been able to put those connections together yet.

in that timeline. So it's like, I try to keep my timeline a little looser and

This is a case where we literally know nothing. We don't know anything. There's things that we can assume are plausible enough that they likely happened. But as far as can I say that this is a fact, this is a fact of this case? No, I can't say that about cakes and cones. I can't say that about the party. You know, I can't say that about what time Stacy watched her walk into recreation park. I can't even say that he did. If I had to guess that,

the timeline. I would think that they were downtown. They probably were at a restaurant, maybe Case and Cohn's. Maybe they popped in and saw Louise. Maybe they actually had dinner with Louise, but that doesn't actually seem all that likely just because Louise would have been working. I think that Barb probably did go to a party. It was a Saturday night. Otherwise, why wouldn't she be at home at 11? Why would Louise have had to talk to her about her plans to come home? But

But beyond that, I'm not sure. Talking to the gals who had the apartment and them believing that Barb was likely there

The night of the party, these sisters partied with her around that time or something, and I ended up reaching out to the one sister, and she mentioned the party and that she thought that Barb might have been there that night. And I was like, oh, my God, they cannot be certain that Barb was there that night, but they really do believe that she was.

And Louise called them for six months after, just asking them if they remembered anything. I mean, that tells me that they're probably right, that Barb probably was there that night. After the party, they can't be sure when or who or the context of the conversation, but they vaguely remember talking to police.

Throughout this story, you have frequently heard about this boyfriend, Stacy Werder, but not much in the way of details about him. Stacy himself is a bit of a mystery. We know about Stacy because Barb's mom mentioned him to the police when she reported Barb missing. And we know that Stacy was a real person who existed. One odd aspect is that the only person who places Stacy in Williston is Louise Cotton.

Stacy wasn't from Williston. He was a bit of a drifter. If he was living there or temporarily staying there, no one knows where. Not a single friend or family member besides Louise can ever recall Barb mentioning that she was dating this man, or saying that she had a boyfriend around that time.

Barb's closest friend at the time, Diane, recalled seeing Barb days prior and then speaking to her on the phone in the lead-up to her disappearance. And she said that Barb didn't mention a new boyfriend. Diane believes that she would have been the first person that Barb would have told. Is it possible that Barb met Stacy sometime during those last few days, and she didn't get a chance to tell anyone else about him besides her mother? It is strange.

Barb's friend Diane said that she and Barb didn't see one another as much in that last week, and she couldn't recall why. Could it have been that Barb did, in fact, meet a new boyfriend and was busy spending time with him?

We're going to share with you what we know about Stacy. He was a 21-year-old man from California who died about three months after Barb disappeared. Stacy took his own life inside a jail in Malta, Montana. James Wallner from Dakota Spotlight has done a significant amount of research on Stacy and was able to track down some of his remaining family members in California in order to help fill in the gaps about who Stacy Werder was.

He's a riddle, really. I mean, we've learned that he grew up in Huayrica, California, and he was apparently very intelligent. He has a couple sisters, and I interviewed them in the podcast. Very intelligent, but also had, presumably, some mental issues. They say he was paranoid schizophrenic. The sisters have relayed stories to us about how Stacy almost killed his father, or at least

strangled him with an electric cord, I believe. The other sisters shared that he had burned down their house one time. I think he was like in the class of 1978, around there in Huayrica. And after graduating, well, he was in the Navy for a short time, and he was discharged, I believe. And I think that's where they discovered that he was schizophrenic, according to his sisters. And then he kind of became a drifter.

and kind of traveled all over, and he's sometimes come back to Wairika, I guess. And we don't know his path out to North Dakota. In fact, Williston PD did tell us, when we did get to speak with them, that nobody but Louise Cotton, Barbara's mother, can place Stacey Werder with Barbara in Williston. And in fact, I don't believe we've talked to anyone who saw him

remembers him being in Williston. Like the only connection to this Stacey Werder being in Williston is Louise Cotton, Barbara's mother's comment to police that she saw Barbara with him earlier in the evening. But Stacey, after Barbara went missing, he gets arrested in Glasgow, Montana. He's in jail for about a week or 10 days, something like that.

When he gets out of there, he ends up in Malta, Montana, and goes to a movie with a friend. And Stacy gets arrested. They're causing some trouble in the theater, gets arrested for disorderly conduct, and he later hangs himself in the Malta jail that night.

Through my interviews with his sisters, who have never been spoken to by law enforcement, which makes me wonder if Stacy is just not considered a strong suspect for some reason that we don't know. His sister took his phone call, last phone call home, and he apparently said, tell mom I love her, tell her I'm sorry for what I did, I'm damn sorry for what I did. She believes like the next day or something was when he took his own life. So,

There's been a lot of speculation, like, was he saying, tell mom I'm sorry for what I did, meaning I'm going to kill myself and I'm telling mom I'm sorry for killing myself? Or did he have something to do with maybe Barbara's disappearance? And that's what he's sorry for? We don't know. Laura did say, I've always thought my brother had something to do with Barbara's disappearance. I've always thought that.

And he would just turn on a dime, like she said. It was like flipping a switch. And he would go from being nice to just kind of crazy, I guess. And his actions, his violent actions towards his family. I think that's probably one of the stronger things we discovered in the podcast that gave light to who this Stacey Werder was. And again, we had to figure out who he was ourselves. Well, based off of the first name, but...

When Louise told the police about Stacey, she mentioned that he used to be a dishwasher at Cakes and Cones. In recent years, Barb's friend Sandy has finally been interviewed by law enforcement, and she asked them if they ever tried to confirm that he worked there with the owners of that business. Maybe they could have provided some insight about who he was, and that could have given them someone other than Louise to place Stacey in Williston.

Sandy felt like this would have been something that could have easily been done at the time. I'm in there doing the interview and we're talking about Stacey Warder or whatever. And, okay, friends of ours, and remember my dad was also a police officer. So friends of ours owned a restaurant and they also cooked the jail, the prisoners food and brought it up there every day, three times a day or two times a day, whatever it was. I think back then it was actually three times a day.

Every one of them knew who they were. It was one of the famous restaurants to eat. It was open late hours called Cakes and Cones. Supposedly, this Stacey Wardner worked there as a dishwasher for a while. So when I'm in there, I ask if that's true or if anybody asks Cakes and Cones, the owners of it, Ron and Joyce Merrick, or any of the staff there. Louise even worked there part-time for a while.

Did anybody ask about the Stacey Wardner to them? They couldn't tell me. And I was like, what do you mean you can't tell me? Ron and Joyce were up here three times a day. And she says to me, well, we're not going to get into that. We're not going to bad mouth any police officers in the past. We're not going to criticize their investigation. And I remember just being put back because I think I'm asking a valid question. And she just totally shut me down.

And I knew from that minute right on, even though I told her my dad was a police officer, I understand I'm not out here. Most of those police officers were friends of mine. Even after my dad got out of the force, we camped together. They hung out together. We snowmobiled together. I don't want to criticize any one of them, really. I just want to know what they know and like to ask them questions and want to go, well, did anybody do this? You

You know, I'm just coming from question point of view, not like you guys didn't do a good job. There's just nothing documented anymore. Like what's in the file about, you know, them interviewing Stacy can't say that they did or that they didn't interview him because there's nothing in there. Did they find out he did work at cakes and cones? I can't tell you that because there's nothing in the file.

Did they go to SCOBY? Can't tell you that because there's nothing in the file. Lisa has thought a lot about this relationship between Barb and Stacey. Could it have been all made up? Or is it true? She has a theory on how this could have unfolded. A big thing with this is Diane Leduther, Barb's best friend at the time, she, I mean, you remember being that age, she would have known about Stacey before Louise would have known Stacey.

Maybe Barb met Stacey earlier that day. I mean, and maybe she just hadn't gotten around to telling Diane about him. I mean, if it was a manipulation, a case of manipulation, and maybe Barb was just that smitten with him, I mean, maybe Stacey was like, yeah, let's go meet your mom. I could see that happening. And in that case, nobody would have known about him except for Louise. You know, maybe they met and

hit it off right away and they were hanging out and Barb had to stop downtown and talk to her mom or something like that. It could be realistically just as innocent as that. Barb's younger sister Kathy told us that Barb didn't bring boyfriends around and she didn't know anything about Stacy or any boyfriend that Barb had. But she does remember Barb having someone over that she thought was a friend. Today, Kathy wonders if that could have been Stacy.

There was an assumption that she had a boyfriend. I didn't know that she had had a boyfriend. Stacey had been mentioned to me a couple of different times throughout the years, but I don't remember him. Of course, she really didn't bring boyfriends home or anything. I mean, there was one day I come home from school and there was a guy laying on the couch

I was asleep, and I asked Barb who that was, and she said it was just a friend who needed a place to crash for a little while. And I told her, I said, well, you better get him out of here before mom gets home. She's not going to be very happy about this. I vaguely remember his face and the color of his hair. It was kind of like a light, sandy, blondish-looking hair.

Some of Stacy's pictures kind of resembles this guy that was on the couch, but I couldn't say for sure. I don't think it was too many months before Barb disappeared.

Another strange thing is that Barb's mother was in contact with Stacy's mom after Barb disappeared. We don't know if Louise called Stacy's mom Cynthia first, or if it was the other way around. We also don't know how they would have found one another, with Stacy's family being in California, and Louise in North Dakota. If Barb and Stacy had just met, how did Louise or Cynthia know enough to track down the other family?

Did Louise just call information and ask for phone numbers for people with that last name? We don't know the answers to most of these questions, but Lisa has been trying to make sense of what they do know.

talking to Stacey's sisters and learning that he was paranoid schizophrenic and that he had a violent background, at least with his family. Obviously, Stacey's sisters were under the understanding that Barb and Stacey were boyfriend and girlfriend. But Louise had been in contact with Cynthia. That's Stacey's mom. I kind of wonder how much of that did Louise insert into the storyline for Cynthia?

We have no way of knowing if this is something that Stacy talked to Cynthia about himself. I would imagine that if that were the case, yes, he would have, but...

you know, we can't go back and verify that, that Stacey presented it to his mother that way. Or that Stacey ever spoke to his mother about Barb at all. Maybe this was all stuff that Cynthia got from Louise. Nobody in Williston remembers him, at least not for sure. And certainly nobody in Williston that has came forward anyways, even if they did interact with him, seemed to...

to know him at all. There was a police report where Louise said that Stacy's mom wanted Barb to call her if she came home. There's a lot of unknowns there. There's a lot of assumptions, and I try to be careful about the assumptions that I make. It allows me to accept new information more readily than getting planted on something that would make me have to switch everything up. So it's like I try to keep everything loosely

In part one, we told you about a tip that Louise Cotton gave to the police after Barb disappeared. She said that Barb may have been in a hotel with Stacey Werder in Scobie, Montana.

There is a note in the police file that this tip was cleared, but no other details were known about that. It was a very specific tip that even included a room number to check at the hotel. James told us that he is still perplexed about this particular tip and what it could potentially mean.

That's such an interesting detail of this case. So Barbara goes missing April 11th, a Saturday, and her mother apparently sees her downtown with Stacy, right? And then she calls the police the next day. She says her daughter's missing. She tells them that she saw her with Stacy. And then on Monday, I believe, she calls the police again, like she's done some detective work between Sunday and Monday. And she says she thinks...

Her daughter might be in Scobie, Montana at the Pioneer Hotel or Inn in room 205. She's got a room number. And I believe she also says she thanks someone, a friend of Barbara's, whom Wilson PD would not share the name with us.

In my interview with them, Louise said she thinks this unnamed person knows where Barb is, but she won't tell her. Regardless, regarding Scobie, she calls on Monday, two days after the disappearance, and tells them she thinks her daughter is in the Pioneer Inn.

in Scobie, Montana, in room 205. So it comes from Barbara's mother, and you kind of get the feeling she was doing some asking around, right? And where she got that information exactly, we don't know. Do I think she was in Scobie? It's really hard to say. It's really one of these mysteries in this case that's just really kind of fascinating in a way. I mean, it's interesting that that is the part of the world where Stacey Werder, who

Louise said she saw Barbara with does end up getting arrested, not in Scobie, but in a, you know, a nearby town, maybe 60, 100 miles away in Glasgow and then later in Malta. I mean, that's he's out there. That's where he is.

Sandy has memories of Louise talking about the police tracking Stacey down in Montana in order to see if Barb was with him at his motel room. Her memories line up with the bits of information in the police file and might help fill in some gaps in the documentation.

So when Barb goes missing, the first thing I hear from Louise and my mom or my mom tells me about Barb is that she was with Stacy and Barb's mom Louise ran into her that night. And they actually had a really good night because her and her mom were having a little bit of problems. And that this guy that Barb's with, Stacy Wardner, then goes like crazy.

That's on a Saturday night, then on Monday, he's in Montana, and that the police thought she was with him. And I had heard from my mom, from Louise, that the police had been there twice and searched his apartment or his motel room. Now that, the police couldn't even verify was true. And she said, the detective said, well...

We might have just went there and talked to them and there wouldn't have been a report then. So they can't even tell me if that's true, if that they ever went there and searched it. But I feel a little bit vindicated that my memories are true, but really gives us no answers.

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Addie. That's Addie. A-D-D-Y-I dot com. While James was speaking to Stacey's sisters, they mentioned a friend who had dropped off Stacey's belongings with their family. They remembered a few details about him, including his nickname Red. It wasn't much to go on, but James and Lisa went to work.

When we interviewed Stacy's sisters out in Northern California, we asked a lot of questions about what they remembered. And they remembered someone named Red coming to California after their brother took his own life, coming with Stacy's belongings, right? So this person named Red, and they couldn't remember a last name or anything, came out with a couple other people, bringing Stacy's belongings to their mother, Cynthia, to their parents.

And of course, we're wondering, so who is this Red? Because if they have Stacey's belongings, they were obviously either traveling with him or, you know, what's the connection? Were they with Stacey?

Stacy, were they part of a crime towards Barbara? So who's Red? And we never really got anywhere. I'm putting out on Facebook, in the Facebook group, does anyone know someone named Red, nicknamed Red in the Williston area back in the early 80s? Never really got anywhere. And then I petitioned the county up in Malta where Stacy took his own life. I wanted to see the coroner's inquest.

And they wouldn't just give it to me as an open record. I had to actually petition, sue the county for it. And we went through this long process. It took several weeks, but a judge finally did release the coroner's inquest. And the inquest was basically...

Sort of a, almost like a little trial, a few months after Stacy hung himself. I wouldn't call it a trial, though, but, you know, an inquest into, they were trying to substantiate, did this guy kill himself, or was he, you know, they wanted to make sure there wasn't a crime. Someone didn't hang him in a cell or something, right? So, it's kind of an interesting read, because you're basically reading through this inquest and these different witnesses, right?

And they interviewed the police officer who arrested Stacey for disorderly conduct that night. And then suddenly, right there, I see the name because Stacey was not alone.

oh, there was someone else with them. And it was the name Red Sullivan, which was an incredibly exciting moment because suddenly, you know, we felt that we found Red, or at least his last name. And then, you know, we tried to find him. And I have to give all credit to Lisa Jo Shealy for actually finding him in the end, because she did that. You know, she's an excellent researcher, obviously. And

Ultimately, we found him. And when we spoke to him, we thought, you know, what is he going to tell us? And it turns out he just had run into Stacy in Malta. Stacy was out hitchhiking, I think, and they ran into each other and Red was there camping. And they'd spent a few days, you know, three or four days together, went to the movies together.

Stacy gets arrested and that was kind of the end of it. So that was disappointing. You know, we were thinking maybe this Red had been traveling with him for weeks and weeks, but unfortunately, no. And again, kudos to Lisa Jo Scheele for actually finding him. I'm not even sure how she did in the end.

Finding Red ended up being a dead end. He didn't seem to know anything about Barb, but he helped fill in some gaps about Stacey. Stacey Werder remains a person of interest in Barb's case, since he passed away just months after Barb disappeared. That has always made people suspicious, and those suspicions remain today.

There's certainly a lot that points towards him, right? If he was actually seen with her that night, of the persons of interest that we've come across, that's the one person we know was with her. And then it's potentially suspicious, depending on how you look at him taking his own life and his call out to his family saying he's sorry for what he did.

If Louise's information is accurate that they were, Barbara was in Scobie while he's in Montana. There's just a lot pointing at him. But I can't say that I believe any one person that we've come across is definitely responsible now.

While Stacey Werder sounds like a solid suspect in Barb's disappearance, maybe he had nothing to do with it. Perhaps he ended his life due to guilt over his possible role in her disappearance. Or maybe he chose to end his life due to his own battles. We may never know the answers. But Stacey isn't the only person of interest in Barb's disappearance. The second person of interest is someone that has no known connection to Barb. He likely would have been a stranger to her.

He was working in Williston around the time of her disappearance, and it is possible that they could have crossed paths, perhaps in the restaurant that Barb worked at or elsewhere. But there's no established connection between the two. No one who knew Barb had ever heard of this name until recently. James interviewed an investigator from the Williston Police Department. It was a rather tense interview. You can hear it for yourself in episode 6 of his series on Barb.

We requested an interview with the Williston Police Department on multiple occasions since we began working on covering Barb in 2021, but they have declined to do any further podcast interviews. But going off of James' interview, we know that they said that they had Team Adam come out in 2020 to review and digitize Barb's file. They worked on building timelines and establishing persons of interest.

That's when they uncovered an interesting bit of information. In May of 1981, not quite a month after Barb had disappeared, the Williston Police Department received information from law enforcement in Wyoming that they had a double homicide of two young girls in Rawlins, Wyoming.

Before the murders, this man had also tried to pick up other young women, girls, and a little boy. The plate on his vehicle came back to Frank Della Pena, who had been staying in Williston. Law enforcement saw this as a red flag. A man who had murdered two young girls and had been attempting to lure other women and children was likely in Williston the night that Barb disappeared.

After the murders, he was initially on the run, but was later apprehended. And just like Stacey Werder, Frank Della Pena took his own life once he was incarcerated. This new lead seemed promising and also shocking to Barb's loved ones, as they learned more about the crimes that this man committed and envisioned what he could have done to Barb. When James heard about Frank Della Pena, he started submitting record requests to the various agencies involved in the Wyoming double murder case.

We learned quite a bit. I mean, we got records, requested records from Wyoming. So Frank Della Pena was born in Mexico, I believe. He was working in Williston. He had like a van and a camper he was driving around with, working in the oil industry. He was staying at a KOA campground in Williston.

This may have been a coincidence, or perhaps not. But in the weeks following Barb's disappearance, Frank Della Pena checked himself into a hospital. He gets checked into the hospital for a pressure in his head and a lot of anxiety, and he's under observation for two days. And this occurs on May... He was released on May 2, 81. So this is about two weeks, two to three weeks after Barbara goes missing.

After he gets checked out on a Saturday, May 2nd, he stays in Williston for three more days. After the brief hospital stay, Della Pena left Williston, and this is when things took a frightening turn. On Tuesday, he drives down to Wyoming, and on Wednesday, I believe, he starts almost randomly, not completely randomly, trying to abduct people, trying to coerce women, usually, into his van, saying he's got a puppy.

that he wants to give them. And he tries several times. I mean, he goes to Shoshone, Wyoming, Riverton, Wyoming. He goes into this drugstore and tries to do the same thing with a gal named Diana. Say, hey, I got a puppy. You want to come out and take a look at it? He ends up in Rawlings. And this is just one of the most terrible, heartbreaking parts of this thing I've learned in this story is that he ends up

killing two girls, nine-year-old Penny Swanson and 12-year-old Renee Davidson in Rawlings, Wyoming on May 7th, which is less than a month after Barbara went missing, right? And it's just terrible, terrible crime. And he dumps their bodies the same night or the next day, just kind of on the side of the road. I mean, his behavior is very reckless. He's compelled. It seems like he just seems compelled to try to commit these crimes.

And yet five days later, he's applying for a job down in Colorado. You know, he gives his name like a reference up in Williston. The guy who's going to hire him calls up to Williston and turns out he's already wanted for this murder because someone had seen his license plate there in Wyoming and the cops were already on to him. And they bust him, throw him in jail. And within like a week, he hangs himself in jail also.

Very similar to what Stacey Werder did, right? And these are within three months of each other. Or basically, another way of putting it is both Stacey Werder and Frank Della Pena hung themselves rather promptly after getting arrested. I mean, Stacey the same night and Della Pena waited a few days. It just seemed like a weird, I guess, coincidence, if you believe in that kind of thing.

On Stacey Werder's death certificate, it says oil worker. So he was moving in potentially in the oil worker circles in Williston, as was Della Pena. We've speculated. There's never been able to connect them. But, you know, did they know each other? You know, is it possible they committed a crime together with the suicide pact? I mean, that's getting kind of very, very speculative. Right. But you can't help but wonder about some of these things.

Della Pena was an unexpected lead. When Lisa first heard about him, she couldn't wait to start digging for information.

They found the information on him when Team Adam and stuff was there, and they went back through Barb's file, is what the police said. So, I mean, at some point in time, somebody must have associated De La Pena with Barb enough to leave that little nugget of it. I guess I don't have any experience to say, but to leave that little nugget of information in her file somewhere where they came across it, unless they were fanning out from that, but

Rollins did contact Williston because Frank's vehicle was registered to North Dakota. Police gave them what they had on Frank D'Alpina, but no, there was never any inquiry about Barb to my knowledge. And you'd think less than a month later, that would be a thing. But we've tried to tie Stacy and Frank D'Alpina together. We haven't found anything. Frank D'Alpina was a seismology worker.

And apparently, according to what the police said that Louise, Barb's mother, reported the day after Barb went missing was that Stacy, she said, used to wash dishes at Cakes and Cones, which was a local restaurant there. But then July, when Stacy hung himself in Malta, Montana, they had enlisted as a laborer in the oil fields. We did try to make that connection that maybe they worked together or something, but

We weren't successful. So with Frank de la Pena, we did get a hold of the files from Colorado when he was arrested. And then he was held in the Hugo jail, which is where he killed himself awaiting extradition to Wyoming. All of his, like his van and his camper, it was all sent to the Cheyenne crime lab. And we got all the files from there. And James said,

was um requesting to know if there was any physical evidence left because you know they had all these hairs and stuff back then photographs like photographs would have been awesome yeah maybe barb was in one of them maybe stacy werder was in one of them they can't find them which after 40 years and nobody seeking any information on frank de la pina that doesn't surprise me i don't feel like there was much obligation there for them to hold on to that i wish they had but

it's understandable, I suppose, you know, but they, they were very forthcoming with everything. Wyoming and Colorado, they were very helpful. And the lady who emailed us back about the crime lab stuff,

She's like, I'm going to check one more place. She's like, but I haven't came across it yet. I don't think it's going to be here, but I'm going to try. Frank Della Pena, he did have an arrest in Williston for, I think it was petty larceny, but I don't think he was in Williston for too long.

And I did pull an arrest record. They don't have the case file anymore, but he was arrested in Denver for first degree sexual assault. So I have no details. I just know that he was arrested May 19th of 1980. And I do have that record. And apparently there's nothing more to it that they still have.

While Della Pena sounds like he could possibly be responsible for Barb's disappearance, she disappeared when he was likely in town. He killed two young girls and also tried to abduct others as well. To James, there is a piece of Barb's case that doesn't seem to fit Della Pena's M.O. When he killed Penny Swanson and Renee Davidson, he made no effort to really hide their bodies.

And it's surprising they didn't find her body then. We have discussed that, you know, that the way he attempted to abduct people with the puppy story, Barb's siblings talk a lot about how she was just so nice. And she might be the kind of person that would get in someone's car to look at a puppy. I know she had a lot of faith in people and believed in people, it seems like, spiritually.

So she might have been the person who's like, yeah, I'll go in here and see this puppy. But if Frank Della Pena was responsible for Barbara's death, I kind of feel like her body would have been found just laying along the side of the road or something. Just like Stacey Werder, it appears that Frank Della Pena is another person of interest who can't be ruled out at this time.

and we may never know if he happened to pawn Barb that fateful night, perhaps while she was walking home alone, and asked her if she wanted to see his puppy. It's certainly a frightening scenario to think about, considering the fate of those two innocent girls in Wyoming who lost their lives at the hands of Frank Della Pena.

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The third person of interest that we're going to discuss is a bit closer to home. In fact, he's one of Barb's own brothers, Frank Cotton. Frank was much older than Barb. He was in the older grouping of siblings and was 32 years old when Barb disappeared. In James' interview with the Williston police, he was told that Frank was considered a person of interest early on and still is today. Frank was a man of interest to Barb.

Frank died in 1999 from cancer, so he isn't here to shed any light on the case today.

Over the years, Frank sometimes stayed at the apartment with Louise and the kids for periods of time, though no one can recall today if he was staying there at the time Barb disappeared. Even if he wasn't living there at the time, he was there on a regular basis and often helped Louise out with things around the house. Barb's sister Kathy told us that she was always very wary of Frank when she was young.

I stayed clear of him because I got bad vibes from him when I was younger. But he first time ever asked me to go to the bar with him to celebrate my birthday. Sure, I went. Everything went fine in Danny except for when...

guys would hit on me, he acted more like my boyfriend than my brother, which, you know, kind of struck me as odd. And then when the bars closed, he took me home and then he made advances on me. I got in my apartment, called my boyfriend. While he was on his way, my brother did come back, but I never did open the door. Make a long story short, I told my mom about it and my mom called me a liar. Come to find out you're

Years later that he molested my sister, a girlfriend of his that he was living with, come to my apartment one day with her two girls, young girls. And she told me what the girls had told her. And I'm like, yep, that sounds about right. You know, I believed her 100% that he was molesting the girls.

My mom said I was a liar. She was a liar. The girls were lying and Frank did nothing wrong. I got her to bring her girls and stay with me for a while. And when I mean for, I guess for a couple of days and then Frank came knocking on the door, talked to me into coming back home. And he told me to stay the hell out of his business. And I'm like,

You cannot seriously, seriously going to take this girl back into that situation. She just kind of shrugged her shoulders and left with the girls.

And her one daughter had gotten a hold of me, I don't remember how many years back, and told me what happened with my brother. He was molesting them. And my mom defended him. My mom got mad at me. She told me I needed to mind my own business and that it was a family matter. And then she inappropriately made comments to my niece saying,

and grabbed her while we were out fishing.

And it was finally brought to my attention. I took to the police station. I filled out a report. I had her tell the detective what had happened. Boy, did I get in trouble for that one too. My mom would not talk to me for quite some time because it was a family matter and I had no right to do that. And I'm like, seriously? It's not okay. You're still defending that piece of work?

I feel in my mom's mind, that was perfectly fine for him to be doing that. Barb's older sister, Diane, explained that she had come to suspect Frank years ago, and she wasn't aware that he was considered a person of interest at that time.

I always thought it was my brother. Well, not always. At first, when she first disappeared, I thought probably she'd got abducted because it was an oil boom at the time in the early 80s. And there were a lot of strange people out there. And I heard there was a cult in town and stuff. So I didn't know because she didn't take any money with her or any clothes or anything. I didn't think she'd run away.

I thought she'd got abducted, kidnapped or something. And then when my brother died, Frank died.

At the time that Frank was sick and died, then I was like after he died that I found out that she had declared Barb dead. But it was just the way that she acted after Frank died. She quit actively looking for her. And up to that time, she'd always been looking for her. She'd talk to the missing people.

an exploited children place. And I know she had been contacted a couple of times through them, I believe, about bodies being found in different areas of the country. And then they always turned out not to be Barb. So up to that time, I figured she'd been kidnapped or abducted. But after my brother died, I thought, maybe not. Maybe it was an accident.

But I had had dealings with my brother and my daughter. He had made inappropriate moves on her, and I was going to take him to court. But because of other things that were happening at the same time, we dropped him.

to charges with prejudice. I never heard of anything until I just went to and had an interview with Detective Darry of the Urgel. He just mainly wanted to know what my home life was when I was growing up, and that was pretty much about it. And then he told me that my brother Frank had been one of the prime suspects.

Frank is a controversial subject within the family. Some believe he did something to Barb, while others defend his character and remember him as a good guy who helped others.

He did have a good side. There's people who say, oh, no, he couldn't have done anything because he was a good guy. He always helped people out whenever they needed it. He taught my brother about mechanics and my younger brother, Kent, and took him fishing and stuff, you know, and played the dad role with him and stuff. But he still had that other side. And like I say, my mom always seemed to always defend the men. That was just the way she was brought up.

The idea that Frank could be responsible for Barb's disappearance brings into question Barb's own mother, Louise, and what she may have known. For Barb's sister, Kathy, she can't help but wonder about Frank and if her mother could have known.

I am finding so many indiscrepancies in stories that my mom has told different people compared to what I know. And I'm more confused now than I ever have been. My main thought was that my sister was kidnapped, abducted back then. I never thought she ran away.

And it just, what I found out recently just adds more and more to what I thought back then. I took care of my mom when she was dying of cancer in 2004. And she would sit at her kitchen table and stick her head in her hands and say she was going to go to hell. She was going to burn in hell for what she did. And I asked her, I said, Mom, what are you talking about? What are you going to burn in hell for?

And she'd get really mad at me and slam down her fist. She told me to never mind. I was in my 30s when my mom passed. And I didn't know what to think at the time. But the more I thought about it and the more I looked back on the different things that had happened after my sister disappeared.

I hate to say this, but I think my brother Frank had something to do with my sister's disappearance, and I think my mom knew about it. She might not have known about it right away, which she did later on. That's my feelings on this. Thinking about it afterwards, after she had passed and I had time to reflect on things, her reaction and everything, I'm thinking, was she talking about Barb, Barb's disappearance?

Did she know more than she was saying? These new things that had surfaced last year that I didn't know anything about

I believe Kent didn't know anything about my brother that also lived at home at the time. You know, that my mom knew she was at a party the night she never came home. And that my mom had went to the apartment in low-income housing looking for my sister. I did not know anything about any of this up until last year. And I'm like, what? The story that mama always told us was that she didn't see Barb in

at all that day and then find out that she had lunch with Barb or dinner with Barb that day. She stuck to that story till the day she died, but she did not see Barb.

Hearing this made us want to look at the relationship between Barb and Louise a little closer. Throughout this story, you have heard that nearly all of the information that is known came from Louise. And there isn't much context to show the sources of that information beyond her. Like Stacey Werder being Barb's boyfriend. No one else seems to have known about that. The lead in Scobie, Montana. Where did that come from? So,

Some people are skeptical of Louise, and that seems fair. Was she a grieving mother, or did she know more? Kathy was in the home at the time and witnessed the arguments between Barb and their mom. She told us that things often got uglier than most others realized.

She was, you know, being a typical 15 year old, hanging out with friends. I didn't realize the amount of partying that she was doing back then. She didn't want to live at home anymore. She was wanting to move in with her friend, Diane, and my mom wouldn't let her. My mom was really mean to her. She was mean to all of us, but she was worse with Barb for some reason at that time.

She was calling my sister a whore and verbal abuse. My sister was definitely not. She had boyfriends like most teenagers do, but it wasn't like she was going out to parties and sleeping around all the time, you know. Barb and I got the brunt of a lot of the anger. I mean, my brother can't really got in trouble, but not to the extent that his girls did. He was allowed to do more things than the girls because he's a boy.

And my mom always favored the boys in the family. If you had something to tell her that she didn't agree with about the boys in the family, she would tell you you were lying. You know, if...

Mom got mad at her and her feelings extremely. She was very passive, very kind, quiet, gentle, and she would do anything and everything she could to make things right. She was a people pleaser. She would not stand up for herself. An incident that had happened, oh, I don't know.

It was the year before she, Barb had disappeared. Barb had come in late or something on that situation. And mom had come into our bedroom because we shared a bedroom and mom was yelling at her and calling her a whore and a slut. And she had done this on numerous occasions.

And I finally stood up on my bed and got in my mom's face. And I said, would you stop calling my sister a slut in the heart? Because she's not. And mom turned and she gave me this look and I gave her the look back. And yeah, that was for some reason I reached out and I slapped my mom across the face. She looked at me in shock.

And she backed up. Barb looked at me in shock. My mom actually left our room. Barb looked at me and she goes, I can't believe you did that. You should go apologize to mom. She's sitting here calling, standing here calling you a slut and a whore. And you want me to go apologize to mom for standing up for her, for you. I've always stood up for myself and everybody that I care about.

And Barb was very quiet and passive. And I know Barb was getting tired of the verbal abuse and the physical abuse from her mom. And come to find out, she had already had plans in the works to move out of the house.

Barb's friend Sandy spent a lot of time at Barb's home growing up. She has a different take on Louise, and she doesn't remember seeing Louise act in an abusive manner. But she wasn't always there, and perhaps there were things she simply didn't see.

me being a friend and not a sibling or, you know, not Louise's daughter or whatever. Maybe she maybe acted a little different around me, but I was there so much. I stayed overnight. Barb was kind of scared of my dad because he was a big guy. He was a police officer too. Not when she goes missing, but shortly before that, she was kind of scared of him. So she didn't like to come to my house. So we hung at her house all the time. Kent and Kathy, we,

We still call each other like brother and sister because I grew up in that house so much that it kind of surprises me. Kathy says I don't know so much that what went on with her mom, but Louise always took great care of me. She was a single mom, worked really hard and did everything on a tight budget. Like the first time I ever learn or try ramen noodles is with them guys.

Because that's a staple of a single mom, right? There's only one incident that I can remember where somebody got in trouble. One of the girls, either Barb or Kathy, I can't remember which, where her mom, and I think the threat of it was worse than what actually happened. But Kathy said she remembers the switch. But she sent one of the girls out to go find their own switch to get a spanking.

Other than that one incident, I don't remember anything like that. Louise, as long as we behaved, which we always did, she let us pretty much just be. I don't remember any commotions in the house. I don't remember them fighting other than that one time. And Kit and Kathy and I were, and Barb were just really tight, like brothers and sisters. Kathy now has a different take on this. I don't know. She remembers her mom more harshly than I do.

Kathy also noticed that after Barb disappeared, their mom began to act odd when others would come around. And people would come over and right after Barb had disappeared...

She'd be fine before they walked through the door. It was like she put on this act. To me, it looked like an act, a show for them. And then as soon as they left, the tears dried up and she was back to normal. Quick. I mean, she could turn that on and turn it off very quickly.

I don't know, to me it looked like an act. I knew when she was really crying about something and when she really wasn't. And when it came to Barb and her talking to people, I don't know, it was fake. Even at 13 years old, I found that very strange.

The renewed efforts to find answers in this case have excavated a lot of dark secrets from the past. Some of those secrets make people uncomfortable. Things they would prefer stayed forgotten. But the building pressure within the community has helped some new leads trickle in. Kathy told us about one such lead.

There's a woman that I've known her for years. I'd come forward and said that she had seen Barb after she was reported missing at the hospital, which I did not know that before. And then she had went to the police station and reported it. And she was told that she did not see Barb and that she shouldn't make things up. She's like,

No, seriously, I did see her. And when she told it to me, I 100% believe her that she really did see Barb. And she'd seen her up at the hospital here in town. She never veered from the story. And then I took her to the Williston Police Department here a couple weeks ago so she could tell Lieutenant Derry, who's in charge of Barb's case now. And it was...

the same thing she had said to me. It was very shocking, very, very shocking. I'm like, what? And just wondering what went wrong 41 years ago. Who didn't do their job? Who just turned a blind eye? I talked to Lieutenant Derry here a few weeks back, and I guess he's been getting lots of phone calls.

If that witness really did see Barb at a hospital after she had disappeared, what could that mean and how would it shift the entire timeline of this case? While speaking with Kathy, we asked her what she thinks today about what happened to her sister so many years ago.

There are a lot of different avenues that have opened up. I still believe deep down that my brother had something to do with it. My mom knew about it. But there's always these other guys that were around that possibly could have something to do with my sister's disappearance, too. That would have been Stacy Werder and that Frank Della Pino. I think my mom had vented to my brother Frank about my sister. My mom and my sister weren't getting along.

And I personally think, Frank, I picked her up to scare her, to get her to listen to my mom more. And things went wrong in the process. Now, I don't have evidence that had happened. It's just my gut feeling. My mom wasn't telling me everything. She

The way she acted, the way she talked, I always felt she was hiding something when it come to Bart. Why would she call a young man's mother who had just hung himself way in California? So many questions have come up over the past year, more questions than answers, and I'm just like,

I'm more confused now than I ever have been. Did she know what happened to Barb? Scenarios keep going through my head. Okay, my mom had a temper, a big temper. And what if she found Barb that night and had picked her up and she lost her temper with Barb, accidentally hurt her in some way and didn't know what to do about it. From what I've seen over the years,

that disappearances like this, not always, but a good majority are family related. I hate to, you know, point the finger at my mom and my brother when I don't have concrete evidence, but everything that I've seen keeps circling back around to those two.

That's what I feel. It was an accident. And the places that her body possibly could have been have been coming up a dead end. And I guess without finding her, it's kind of hard to say that they had something to do with it. If she was covering something up for Frank, Frank was her baby. Frank was her favorite child out of

all of us. And Frank could do no wrong. If she was covering up something for him, she would have taken it to her grave. Even though he was already dead. Which is sad. With everything that's happened this year, I am feeling more and more confident that they're going to find her body. We did have a celebration of life for her on the anniversary of her disappearance in April. I needed that. I know my siblings needed that. And the

The turnout of the community was just overwhelming and so heart-touching. The rest of everybody moved out of Williston. I'm the only one left.

And I have, you know, like anxiety attacks just thinking about moving away from here. Deep down, I know she's gone. But there's always that small part of me that hopes she comes back. Life has to go on. That's all there is to it. But I always have the feelings and hope that someday she'll come back. But deep down, I know that's never going to happen.

No one ever wants to suspect that their own family member could do such a thing. But Diane also suspects her brother, Frank.

I thought it was strange when her boyfriend hung himself in jail after she disappeared. And I kind of thought, well, maybe he might have had something to do with it back then. And then when Frank died and the stuff that I had dealings with him about, I thought, well, maybe he had picked her up to give her a ride home and tried something and it went wrong and might have been an accident and

He would know all the places around there to hide bodies because he was an avid hunter and fisherman. And my mom, the way she stuck up for the men, wouldn't surprise me at all that she would have...

not went to the police about that and would have helped him not said anything to anybody. And let, um, you know, what's in the past is in the past, especially because Frank helped her out a lot after she had divorced my dad and went on, on his own, you know, she, he would come there and help her mechanics and stuff. And I mean, he had a good side and that's how he did. There's a lot of bad in the family too.

I would like to know before I die. I wish for sure my mom would have known. I don't know if she did for sure or not. I don't know if Frank confessed to her on his deathbed. Is why she changed and quit looking and stuff. I don't know. Diane has been disappointed by what she has learned about the initial investigation into her sister's disappearance. And it's impossible to go back and uncover everything that was missed at the time.

Still, she has hope, but tries to remain realistic with her expectations. I did not know about the last lady that had worked at this candy striper, and that she thought she had seen Barb about a week after she disappeared, and...

I was always really disappointed with the police work done back then. And to expect the police now to actually discover things that weren't investigated and people are dead or memories are bad, I really don't expect a whole lot.

I'm hopeful, but I'm not optimistic. You know, you never know. Miracles can happen. People have been found 40 years later or found out what happened to them 30 years later.

But with just about everybody that was involved, their dad, pretty hard to investigate something like that, I would think. And I guess I'm just, I've got my own theories, but it doesn't mean they're right. There's so many different theories out there now that I'm a little confused on what to believe some days.

And then other days, I'm like, yeah, that could have been possible, you know. The different things have come up with the different people. So I guess I'm just sitting back waiting, hoping some more people will come forward. That's the biggest hope is someone will come forward and contact the police and find more information on them.

Sandy told us that she remembers Frank from when they were kids. He was often there when Sandy was at Barb's, but she didn't have any negative experiences with Frank. Sandy has always believed that a stranger abducted Barb. In learning about what Della Pena did to those two little girls, has Sandy worried that Barb may have suffered the same fate? My personal feeling is...

a stranger i think she was kidnapped killed and we have such a countryside here with lakes rivers wilderness you know nobody lives you know in these spots where i feel like she was put and probably will never be found after 40 years that she hasn't been found now and things would have overgrown since that in 40 years it would take maybe

maybe a development going up somewhere where nothing had been before, where they're moving ground. That's the only way I see her being found anymore. Unless somebody, like we keep saying, if somebody says something, who knows something, maybe then that way we could find her. And, you know, there is a lot of people that we've tried to talk to just because

Uh, maybe Barb hung out with, and we've tried to get in touch with them and they want nothing. They won't even off the record in, we have like a Dropbox that you can put in any information, you know, and it's totally anonymous.

There's a lot of people that won't talk to you. It's like, why? Why wouldn't you tell us? This Frank Della Pena, the two girls that he murders, is heinous. It's really heinous. And they were nine and 12. And like, that has been my biggest fear about thinking about what has happened to Barb. Like what, you know, what were her last moments like? That just terrifies me and scares me and makes me really upset because I don't believe that

that there's anything innocent. It was something terrible that happened to her. Otherwise, she'd be home by now. Like if she was drug into a car and taken away or whatever, that whole fear, the fear that would have been, that she would have been going through. There was that Frank Della Pena that was in Williston. And I don't know if he was a serial killer, but probably very well could have been. I've always thought something terrible has happened to her. It's only gotten worse after

after you hear things about like Frank Delapenian, what he did to those girls. Could he have done something like that to bar her? That one horrifies me. Scares me to death that something really awful happened to her in her last hour or

Lisa continues to research Barb's case today. She is determined to leave no stone unturned. She has learned so much over the past few years, but there's still so much that is unclear about Barb's case, leaving Lisa unsure what to think about what happened to Barb.

Do you think Stacey was involved in Barb's disappearance? He could have been. Do you think Frank could be responsible for Barb's disappearance? He could have been. Do I think that a perfect stranger who was just passing through Williston for the first time could be involved in her disappearance? Definitely could have been. When you touch on it lately, Stacey seems like the most obvious suspect in this, you

You know, it's always the boyfriend. I mean, we're not even positive about the boyfriend necessarily, but how much of that was talked up by Louise? It's always the boyfriend. It's always the spouse, right? Except this boyfriend didn't have a car. He didn't even have a driver's license. How would he, what would he do with a body to the point where 40 years later, 41 years later now, nobody has ever found it. The more people involved, the more likely that it's all going to fall apart. That is possible, that it

It wasn't just Stacey. In fact, if it was Stacey, he had to have had help. We've even looked at the possibility of Frank Dillapina. Maybe they met up somehow. Frank had a van. He had a camper. He had the camper at the time. He had the van. We thought of the possibility that maybe they were buddies. Maybe they were both in on it. I don't really know. I have a million theories and I'm

There aren't many that I favor over the others. The possibilities still seem endless. Short of aliens coming and picking her up and no one ever hearing from her again, the fact that she has never been found after 41 years, it's unreal. And I could not pick one and say that this is what I believe most likely happened. I could never just pick one right now.

One thing that Lisa told us that she's thankful for is the community that has formed to support their efforts to find Barb. Lisa has met other families of the missing through this, and they help each other by comparing notes and sharing resources. Lisa formed a close bond with one such family member after hearing him in one of our episodes earlier this year.

In listening to the podcast, you put up the story about Judy Brown not that long ago. Julian in that episode said that Judy's the girl that time forgot.

And, you know, Barb really is too. And there's a lot of girls. There's a lot of boys that time forgot. And after listening to that episode and with Julian mentioning needing to track down people and me being the avid people tracker downer that I am, I reached out to him and offered to help him track down people and we've actually became very good friends. And to the point where not only do I...

Have I been helping Julian with Judy's case? But he's been helping me with Barb's case, bouncing ideas off me. And it's nice to have somebody else, you know, look at it from the outside. It's really a testament to people refer to the true crime community. And that's really what it is. I never intended to.

to become a part of the true crime community. Genealogy was my thing. I became really good at finding people because of genealogy. I just never realized how well it would cross over into these investigations.

I think there's a lot of people out there like Julian who realize after the fact, he's a part of this true crime community. And the term, it takes a village, really comes to mind. It takes a village to solve a case. I just think it's great. Everybody's so helpful. And it's just really, it's amazed me.

You know, a lot of it has been suffering in silence. Unfortunately, a lot of families, that's what they've done for the past, in Barb's case, 41 years, suffered in silence. This gives them a platform and gives them access to that community experience.

So what happened to Barbara Cotton on April 11th, 1981? This is a case where it feels like we know so much, but yet so little all at the same time. Is it true that Barb had a new boyfriend? Was he really the last to see her walking into Recreation Park? Or was she at a party later that night? Was Stacey there with her too? It's difficult to build a firm narrative with Barb's story because the foundation feels weak.

We only know bits and pieces of information, and it all seems to come from Louise. If Louise could have been protecting her son Frank, is any of that information reliable and accurate?

On the other hand, Louise could have just been a grieving parent who provided more information and context to the police, but it simply wasn't documented. Did Barb meet Stacy Werder sometime shortly before she disappeared, and she never got to tell her friends about him? Could he have harmed her that night and took that secret with him to his grave, when he took his own life just a few months later? Or did Barb walk home that night and Frank Della Pena was lurking nearby?

Could he have lured her with a puppy, like he had with others? Or does it all go back to Barb's own brother? Could he have given her a ride that night or gone out looking for her and something happened? Or is there someone that remains a mystery to this very day, who could be responsible for what happened to Barbara Cotton?

For Barb's loved ones, they feel like they've waited so long for answers to come. It feels like they're closer now than ever before. But those answers still feel out of reach. But they still have hope that someone out there knows something and will come forward finally.

If you have any information regarding the disappearance of Barbara Cotton, please contact the Williston Police Department at 701-577-1212. You can follow Barb's story on social media at FindBarbCotton. You can find more information at FindBarbCotton.com. And be sure to check out James' season on Barb. You can find Dakota Spotlight wherever you get your podcasts.

I don't know what to say anymore. Like the frustration is just so overwhelming. And I feel like...

I won't find out the answer until I die and see her again. I don't know that I want to put, you know, that loss of hope out there, but I kind of feel like I am losing hope. And I always had hopes to bring her home. And I don't know if that'll ever happen anymore. Can we just somehow luckily come across her bones? That's one of the hopes that I still keep is that, like, maybe...

some new developments going up and they start to break ground and they find bones and then because of DNA we find her and we can bring her home. I hope it's in my lifetime too but if not I'm sure I'll be up there with Barbara holding her hands and we'll be clapping and celebrating. Well I know so I believe that you know I believe in the afterlife and I believe I'll see her again but I just hope to have the answers before I leave this earth.

That brings us to the end of episode 362. I'd like to thank everyone who spoke with us. If you have a missing loved one that you'd like to have featured on the show, there's a case submission form at thevanishedpodcast.com. If you have a missing loved one that you'd like to have featured on the show,

If you'd like to join in on the discussion, there's a page and discussion group on Facebook. I'm on Twitter at TheVanishedPod and also on Instagram. If you like our show, please give us a five-star rating and review. Follow The Vanished on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Or you can listen ad-free by joining Wondery Plus on Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app.

Please support us by supporting our sponsors. By supporting them, you can help us offer the show for free. Another way you can support the show is by filling out a survey at wondery.com slash survey. You can also support the show by joining Patreon, where you can get early and ad-free episodes. Be sure to tune in next week. We'll be covering a case from Arkansas. Thanks for listening.

If you like The Vanished, you can listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. I'm Tristan Redman, and as a journalist, I've never believed in ghosts. But when I discovered that my wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door to where I grew up, I started wondering about the inexplicable things that happened in my childhood bedroom.

When I tried to find out more, I discovered that someone who slept in my room after me, someone I'd never met, was visited by the ghost of a faceless woman. So I started digging into the murder in my wife's family, and I unearthed family secrets nobody could have imagined. Ghost Story won Best Documentary Podcast at the 2024 Ambies and is a Best True Crime nominee at the British Podcast Awards 2024. Ghost Story is now the first ever Apple Podcast Series Essential.

Each month, Apple Podcast editors spotlight one series that has captivated listeners with masterful storytelling, creative excellence, and a unique creative voice and vision. To recognize Ghost Story being chosen as the first series essential, Wondery has made it ad-free for a limited time only on Apple Podcasts. If you haven't listened yet, head over to Apple Podcasts to hear for yourself.