Brittany Norwood : The LuluLemon Murder
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And it is a doozy. And it's just one that everybody has probably heard before. But I promise you, you ain't never heard it like this. Our players this week are Jaina Murray, our victim, and Brittany Norwood, our murderess. Brittany Norwood was born May 19th, 1982 in Washington State, like a little further south of Seattle. She had four brothers, four sisters, and

So nine kids total. Her mom was a homemaker and an advisor and her dad, he kind of ran an upholstery shop. So one of Brittany's sisters, Marissa, her older sister, but her older sister by like 17 months, they shared everything growing up. They shared like the same bedroom. They shared the same hairbrush. And they also shared their love for like Washington, D.C. Like they wanted to be across the country as far away from Washington state that they could be. So

So in middle and high school, Brittany was in all types of activities. Like she was super involved in school. She played soccer. She was really, she had a lot of friends. She was always known to be like really smiling all the time, really funny. And in high school, she made the varsity team as a freshman playing soccer, which is like, you know. Same. I will say though, our high school team was trash.

So anybody who played club soccer? I feel like y'all all played club soccer. Everybody in our class. But the soccer team before that, maybe two or three of them played club soccer. I was going to say, because y'all were pretty good. But I guess I started watching y'all when we started playing. Like 11th grade. Yeah. My year that came in, I think we had nine girls who played club soccer.

So then that's what made the difference. Because everybody knew there was only 11 on the field. So if nine of us are playing club soccer, we got a better chance. But yeah, me and niggas was mad.

Well, after high school, she was accepted to Stony Brook University, which is in, like, Long Island, New York. And she decided to major in sociology. And she was really happy because, you know, like, she was really close to D.C. You remember when I got accepted, when I transferred to Norfolk State, and I was like, I'm closer to New York. Yes. Making my way. I'm almost...

almost there so she was feeling like she was getting close to where she wanted to be at this time she was in the news for like her athleticism in 2001 during her first year at Stony Brook she made an all rookie team selection and she started like 18 games in her first season so like

I'm assuming that means she's pretty good. I see your soccer trophies over there to your... Not Tassie brought props. I didn't. My trophies fell and you know that. So in 2002, she was first team American East selection at a tournament banquet. In 2002, she was also named the 2002 National Soccer Coaches Association of America Northeast Regional Team. So I guess like she was pretty darn good. Like, you know, she...

And soccer is a hard sport. Let me tell you, my coach used to say soccer is the hardest sport because we don't have timeouts. There are no plays.

Like, there was, like, in football, you got somebody, like, running the plays. And, yes, there's quick action, but you get to stop and regroup, where soccer is just the ongoing thing. And then with basketball, it's a lot of sprinting, but it's a lot of breaks. And we have sprints and we have runnings and all of this stuff. And we don't get a break until after 45 minutes. We get a 10-minute break, and then we got to do it again. And don't let there be overtime, because good God almighty. I've been—I think the longest game I've played—

That shit goes into double time, double overtime. You be like, ref, how much more time? Ref, please, how much more time? How much more time, ref? Hell nah.

She was great at soccer and a lot of athleticism. But while she was also playing in soccer, there were some rumors going around that Brittany had a problem with taking things that didn't belong to her. One time, one of her friends was like, I went to brunch with her, and all of a sudden, my wallet ended up missing. Her teammates were like,

I think she's going through the lockers, like, every time, you know, she's away from us, you know, locker. I just feel like if you're going to steal, you should at least have a code. Like, it's not good for morale to steal from the team, first of all. And you're going to be out there wondering why niggas don't pass you the ball. And that's what they said. They, like, confronted her. And...

She was remorseful or whatever. And people just didn't want to play with her no more. The team wouldn't pass with her. It was awkward on the field. They were telling the new people that came in, the freshmen that were coming, hey, watch your shit. Because it's really like a game of trust. You got to trust that that person you passed the ball to is going to do what the fuck they're supposed to do with it. And if you don't trust them off the field, you'll see people who are closer play better together than people who are strangers. And if you're sitting there isolating yourself by doing this stuff, you're not good for the team.

Like, even if you good on your own, it's a team sport. Yep. So, you know, everybody was saying, you know,

keep an eye on your shit when she was around. So she had plans, you know, after college, she wants to open up her own gym. The rumors got so bad and the mistrust on that team, it was felt by everybody that Brittany left the soccer team. Not only did she leave the soccer team, she just like dropped out of school when she had 11 credits left from her degree. That's just two semesters if you play your cards right. Or two semesters in the summer if you don't. But here's the thing. She told her family that she did graduate.

And because she has a balance on her account for her tuition, that's the reason why she hasn't received her diploma. Which is really funny because that is actually why I have my master's degree on the wall.

But I think I owe Norfolk State like $2.25 or something crazy like that. And that's the reason why I don't have my undergrad degree. But, like, so, you know, it's a believable story because I am living proof that that can be the truth. But she—they, of course, you know, they went with it. I just think if they were a wealthy family, they would have paid that balance for her because people like that want to see the degree. They were well-known, you know, but—

How big of a balance was it? They're putting nine kids. What number did she come up with? Nine kids going through school. Like, that's hard work. You know, I guess that she was cute or whatever, I guess. You know, she used to keep herself up, according to people. You know, hair did, nails did, everything done. And because of that, you know, she would keep a lot of boyfriends.

you know, sometimes they were like secret service agents, maybe a college professor here, maybe a politician here, you know, the young ones. Maybe the Pickens is just different in D.C. Because could you imagine updating a secret service agent? I was talking to Shayla, she was like, this is normal, girl. Like in the DMV, like this is

these are the jobs that are there. I mean, I guess it makes sense, but I'm just like, she, she some high class men. Okay. But she also remember she dated that dentist. So she actually, she dated a dentist in 2007, right?

And she used to work in his dental office as an office manager, which kind of seems like an inappropriate relationship to begin with, but we'll not go there. So if it's your office, then, you know, you're over HR because you own the place. That's terrible. Didn't say it was right. I was just saying how we could get there. You sound like a...

trying to explain HR rules. Michael Scott. Yes, like... Let's get ethical, ethical. I want to get ethical. So, their relationship did not last long because of Brittany's lies. Like, what is wrong with you? I think he was just like, I think she's a little crazy. So, they broke up and...

He got a new girlfriend, you know, moved on with his life. And, like, this is, like, a year and a half later, like, after they broke up or whatever. And they had to get a restraining order against Brittany.

Because she was stalking him. They have sworn testimony of her ex and his new girlfriend saying that Brittany came into their home and stole a Movado watch, a diamond pair of earrings, a bottle of Vera Wang perfume, a polo shirt, checks from a checkbook because she had to make sure she was going to keep this extended benefit. I mean...

uh house keys car keys a cell phone all of this so they take she's just like that's crazy like i'm i'm just gonna notice my house and car keys you broke into my house but also she's like escalating right like at first she was just stalking them and now she's breaking in they like had to take her to court and be like keep this

the kid just laid away from me and so she she went to court and she never admitted to stealing anything but she did agree to leave them alone so after this restraining order was in place they actually saw her a time later parked outside the dentist office that he worked at and they was like okay call call the cops and the cops was like ma'am you have to leave you're in violation okay following

Like, ma'am, no. Don't follow them home. So that's the last we hear about them. But in April of 2008, Brittany, still living in D.C., she worked at a high-end hotel, and she had a roommate, right? So her and her roommate are trying to live the high life. They've got a $3,000 apartment. Whew.

No. I'm telling you, it's expensive up there. I'm going to pass. That's why everybody coming to Atlanta and y'all are making it very expensive. Everybody finna go to Texas. Y'all, we're on our way. Yeah, so they was trying to keep up with this $3,000 ass rent and they ended up getting too much behind on it.

And so eventually they were evicted, of course. And Brittany needed a place to live. So she's like, okay, I think the best thing for me is just go stay with my older sister Marissa and her fiance, right? And so she stayed in the basement part of their townhome. So it wasn't like awkward or intrusive because it had its own outside door, its own kitchen, its own bathroom. Like she didn't necessarily need to come upstairs, right? And so it wasn't unusual for Marissa and Brittany to go a day or two without seeing each other. So it's kind of like, you know, she still has her...

Her fiance privacy and all that shit. And Brittany has her own space. And, you know, everything's cool. So then Brittany has another incident, right? So like Mariah said, she likes to keep her nails did, hair did, everything did, right? So she goes to the salon and she gets a weave put in her hair, right?

And, you know, she was like, oh, you did fabulous. I'm a bad bitch. They had a good time. You know? So now it's time for her to pay, right? And she's like, oh, shit, where's my purse? She's looking for her purse. She's looking for her purse. She goes to the front area where the reception lady is. She's like, where's my purse? Oh, okay, I found my purse. She digs inside. Where's my money?

She was like, this shit's ridiculous. How I leave my purse out here and now my money missing. This shit is crazy. I can't believe this. Right. Because when you go to the hair salon, like, even if you are like, if I do accidentally leave my purse, it's the hair salon. I'm expecting you to, I'm still expecting it to be taken care of. I'm not expecting anything to be stolen. Mm-hmm.

So, then she's like, this is crazy, girl. I'm going to have to pay you back later. I can't even believe this shit. The people there are embarrassed. They're like, we can't believe we've had somebody steal from her while she was at the salon. That's crazy. And so, they go back and they're looking at footage. And it turns out nobody ever went towards that purse. The receptionist never got up from the desk. Nobody went in her purse. Nobody took any money from her. So, then...

Which is wild. Like, you caused a scene. That's how she's got to sell it. You caused a... They said that she caused a scene about how dare somebody... If she didn't cause a scene, was the money even there? Right, because I guess I would... If I legit, $1,000 cash was missing from my purse...

I would be like, I would call the scene. She told the girl she was going to pay her back later. Blocks the salon. Blocks them on Facebook. They're like, we were never able to get in touch with this girl again. This shit was ridiculous. First she turns it on us and then ghosts us. That bitch was like, I have no...

Never. All that work I put in her hair for nothing. Crazy. Hair is expensive. Hair is really expensive. And those girls be taxing, okay? So there is also rumor that she was also on these, like, sugar daddy sites. So some headlines from this case are like, Lululemon, buy a prostitute. But the only thing is, like, she had a couple sugar daddies when she was, you know,

And they were trying to make this connection between like the sugar daddies and these unaccounted for trips to Miami. And also like she, like I said, hair done, nails done, everything did. People were like, how is she getting everything paid for? You know, I considered having a sugar daddy. I've talked to you about the times that I've considered having a sugar daddy, especially

Many times. I could never do the follow through. But like, my goodness. In December of 2010, Brittany, she started working at this up and coming yoga store called Lululemon. Now, Lululemon is where the fancy schmancy whites get their Target outfits. Like, it is where, you know, you know, the Target moms, their Lululemon, their sneakers, their tighty tights.

Top target bag. So she starts working there and it seems like it's going well, I guess. But one night they have a shop night, which you've worked retail. Have you ever? I remember somebody telling me about a shop night. Have you ever had one? I know you've worked. No, I can use my discount whenever I want.

Or it could at that time. Okay, so at this shop night, I guess they were looking at new merch, new material, and employees could purchase up to $1,000 worth of merchandise for 70% off. That was smart for them to put a cap because I would have dragged it. Everybody put your orders in.

We balling out every day, 70% off. So it was practically free. With little limits. Practically the price of full price. So Brittany, she went over this limit and she bought about like $2,000 worth of shit.

Now, abusing her discount, of course, is fraud. It was also said that everybody kind of abused the discount. Like, they was like, okay, we'll let you go over. And I think it's just that she went way over. Right? Like, I think it was like, okay, we'll let you spend $1,050, maybe even $1,100 or whatever, right? But she, like, doubled the limit, which is going to raise red flags on that and shit. Right. Like, no.

Not smart with here. You got to be strategic with the blessings that you get. So that on top of the fact that there was missing money out of like wallets, there was missing money out of registers. You know, people's personal items are starting to go up missing. The manager fired Brittany. Like, you got to go.

After being fired, she reported it to the regional manager because they had no proof. And so they had an internal investigation. And because there was no solid proof of her sealing, she was just reinstated and moved to the Bethesda location. So now she's at the Bethesda Row location. Like, this store is directly next to an Apple store. It is a very affluent neighborhood, super bougie. There's, like, restaurants. There's bars. There's all these other high-end, like,

It's what Linux used to be. Is Linux not Linux anymore? I mean, if you want to get shot, like. Like Saks Fifth Avenue over there? Yeah, it's like the Saks Plaza. No, it's not.

But an outlet mall. Yeah. Yeah. They were like, you know, it's an area where they're like, oh, there's a Bentley. Oh, there's a Porsche. Like, and so she started working there in January of 2011. So she worked there for a month and had occasional shifts with Jane and Mary, right? They bonded over athletics, traveling, and Seattle. Seattle.

Jaina was going to move to Seattle with her with her fiance after she finished her dual master's degree program at the nearby John Hopkins University. That's just impressive because first of all John Hopkins is hard. Second of all two masters at the

At the same time? Mm-mm. Mm-mm. You got it. Right. She was five credits away while she was working there around this time, right? Dude, I just finished my master's degree in 2021. Listen, do you want another? And I, like—

I was contemplating going for a doctoral degree. I don't know if I've told you this, but I decided that I was going to give myself another year to start thinking about it because boy, oh boy, like that's another commitment. Like, Jaina was 30 years old. She was born in Kansas, but she grew up in Texas. In high school, she was recruited for track and field and she ended up playing in college. After college, she accepted a job that allowed her to travel the world and she just loved to travel. She visited Spain and France and

she really liked to live life, right? She was described as a beam of light and super adventurous. She bungee jumped. She salsa danced. She scuba dived and said, that's not enough. I'm going to dive out the sky now, you know? She was just, she was lit, right? She also was like a tap dancer and she was like really good. Like they were like, you need to like take, go to New York and try your luck and go to Broadway. And she was like, no, you know, you can't,

Right. To be so multi-talented, man. I think her dad was like a military guy, so like maybe structure was really her thing. So was mine, but it came off different.

Her first two degrees are in business administration and communications. But this final degree that she's working on, right, is... Her first two master's degrees. Correct. Don't get her fucked up. Right. So her final MBA, she was writing her thesis on the Lululemon corporate motto. This is actually the reason why she took the job at Lululemon, to write her thesis paper. It's because her corporate motto is like...

hire successful people or people who have promising futures and show the balance between wellness and athletics and the working woman or whatever. I guess, but, like, Lululemon is, like, one of the... It's almost like working... They have horror stories. They're, like, working at, like, Abercrombie & Fitch. Like, you...

It's still a retail store. They pay you pennies. It's still a retail store, but they want the people who work there to like... Life goals shouldn't be Lululemon. It's like, we want to see you in school. We want to see you being proactive. We want to see you making moves in the background. Like Chick-fil-A. Yeah. Yeah.

So Jane and her boyfriend, Frasier, they've known each other or at least known of each other since the seventh grade. Right. And they had kind of, you know, went your separate ways and they reconnected in college. Adorable. And they started dating and...

They'd been together so long, you know, it's time to look at these rings, you know? So that's why, you know, they got engaged and she's preparing to move to Seattle, right? Just got to finish them degrees first, girl. But she had dreams of working at the Lululemon's headquarters. Like, she really...

the whole idea behind the store, right? So unlike Britney, Jaina was focused on the health and wellness part of working at Lululemon while Britney was more into the glitz and glamour. This is a high-end store, bitch, okay? I'm working right next to Apple, like... Okay, okay.

So the store, the location, it offered lots of different network opportunities, especially for somebody looking for a sugar dad, you know what I mean? So a month after working at Little Lemon, Brittany had an interview with Equinox for a personal trainer position. And this was like...

That's Britney's dream. Like, okay, I need to get this. The interview went so well, they asked her back for a second interview. So she was supposed to come back on March 14, 2011. She's so excited. She was like, I'm about to start my life. You know when you get that first job, like, in your career track, and you're like, okay, now we start. Now, Britney's reputation preceded her. Now, remember, she got moved from the previous store for...

death-related incidents and fraud-related incidents. And so, you know, police believe they gave a warning when she was transferred. And she's having kind of the same issues at her new Lululemon.

Things are coming up missing. Cash is missing from wallets. Clothes are missing from personal bags. And everybody's like, we know exactly who it is. Like one incident was she was talking to one of her coworkers and her coworkers like, ooh, check out this new perfume I just got. She gives Brittany a whiff. Brittany's like, ooh, girl, that smell good. What's the name of it? She was like, oh, it's yada, yada, yada, girl. She was like, oh, that's nice. I'm going to have to get me some. And got her some. She did.

She shows up, talk about some, oh, I've got this new perfume. Thanks for the recommendation, girl. And it's like, it's amazing how you just got the same perfume that I just got, but mine is missing and now you up on it.

Miracles. Mm-hmm. So, everybody's like, at this point, all we have to do is catch her. Everybody's playing it cool. Oh, nothing's wrong. Kiki, we still like Brittany. Just kidding. The supervisors had a meeting, and it was like, keep an eye on her. And as soon as she's caught stealing, she's out of here. So, on Friday, March 11, 2011, they're at the Lululemon store. And Jaina was scheduled at 3 p.m. She actually wasn't supposed to have this shift. She ended up, like, covering for somebody. And so...

She was like the closing manager, the closing leader for March 11th. And she actually texts Courtney, which is another coworker. And she's like, I have to close with the thief tonight. You think I'll catch her?

Like, she texts her that. That's crazy. 3 p.m., you know. So there's, like, six people there total. There's Jaina. There's Rachel. There's Brittany. And there's three other employees, right? Cuts start happening. People start leaving for the day. Now, you would think, if cuts are happening and people are leaving for today, why would they leave?

I guess everybody don't want to work the latest shift. Right. At 7 p.m., Rachel, who, remember, Rachel's the store manager. She's the head of underneath the regional manager. And she leaves at 7 p.m. And she's like, oh, you know, my man's taking me out tonight. And she lives right across the street. Like, everybody knows she lives right across the street. She's like, my man's taking me out tonight. Like, I'm going. On a midnight date. On a midnight date. Like, we about to, you know, we doing, like, the late night thing. I've been working real hard. He trying to do me right. So...

She leaves around 7 o'clock.

Around 8.57, the last customer leaves for the store because the store closes at 9 o'clock. So it's around, you know, after the store closes, you have to clean up, you have to do everything. And it's just Jaina and Brittany. And around 9.30, they're done cleaning up. And most, I do remember my one month of retail that when you close, you did have to like, you have to open your bag and make sure that nobody stole something. And it's really not like you don't even go through their bag. I would never let somebody catch me with some shit in my bag.

ever crazy tazzy i'm gonna need you to calm down i'm gonna need you to calm down like because how dumb are you knowing that you got bag checks and you work in retail you could have put it that's gonna be my my oj like so they have bag check you know jana opens her bag bernice looks in it cool bernie opens her bag jana says um are those leggings those leggings with a tag on it

And she's like, oh, I bought them. She's like, okay, where's your receipt? She's like, oh, I don't have my receipt. And then Jane is like, okay, who rang you out? And she's like, oh, it was like this girl. It was one of the other managers, Chioma or whatever. And she was like, I just threw out my receipt. And she's like,

okay, let me just go in the computer and check. And so, but the computers, it's after hours, the computer's already locked up and they didn't work. She's like, fuck it, no big deal. I'll just call Chioma, make sure that it's cool. We'll deal with it later. At 9.45, the alarm was set on the store for them to leave. So Jaina's walking to her car and on the way she calls Chioma and she's like, and she tells her what happened. Chioma's like, I did not check her out.

Don't put that on me. No, no, no. Don't you know when somebody use your name in a lie? And you're like, hold on. You didn't even call me, text me first. We're not even cool like that. People that I would lie for know what they need to do for me to lie for them. Like, they know the protocol. And I do, too. So, on the way to the car, Jaina calls Rachel, the store manager. And she's like, I caught the bitch. And Rachel's like, bet. Gonna fire her in the morning. Let's get, you know, done.

So, Jaina, they're leaving. And then Jaina gets a text from Brit—she gets a text from Brittany. And she's like, how the fuck did this bitch get my number? I'm sure she didn't—we don't have court documents saying that, but I'm sure that she said, how the fuck did this bitch get my number? And—

It says, hey, it's Britt. I left my wallet at the store. And Jaina's like, oh, fuck. Like, and she knows that Brittany's using public transportation. She's like, okay, I'll go back to the store, obviously. She's like, I left my laptop anyways. I will just, I was going to get it in the morning. I guess I'll just get it now. Okay. Okay.

So around 10.05 p.m., Brittany walks back up to the store and Jaina drives up to the store and she parks in a fire lane from the store because, like, it's after hours, ain't nobody there. The two meet outside the store and Jaina deactivates the alarm. They get inside of the store. They walk through the whole store in the back where the employees keep their personal belongings. Jaina gets her laptop, comes to the front of the store waiting to leave. Brittany's in the back and she's like, where the fuck is this bitch at?

So the two men outside of the store, they deactivate the alarm. They go inside. They walk through the entire store. They're going to get all their things. And they're in the back area where there's personal belongings, where the store keeps their extra equipment, mannequin shelves, you know, those merchandise pegs, all of those things, right? So five minutes pass. It's like 10, 10 p.m. now. And there's Apple Store employees next door because iPad 2 is about to drop.

They're preparing for the next day. You know, these are the times when nobody gets a day off. Everybody has to show up to the store because it's going to get crazy, right? Breeze hell, ew. I know. So next door, the employees are Yana, Ricardo, and a security guard, right? And they start to hear some sounds coming from the yoga store that they share a wall with.

And I'm like, what is going on over there? And like, you can literally see them on the surveillance video. They're all standing in one part of the store and then they all walk up towards a wall. When she goes and get one, come back and they're like, oh shit. And they're not grabbing or looking at anything on the wall. So you can tell like they're kind of listening in. Right. And they hear high pitched yelps, screams, grunts, the

thuds, a dragging noise, and hysterical crying. They hear someone say, talk to me, don't do this, talk to me, what's going on? Then they hear the same voice go, God help me, please help me. They hear thumps. Again, there's dragging, there's heavy breathing, and like, they're hearing all of this shit, and they're like, we only hear female voices, and it must be them uppity little lemon girls up in a cat fight or something, like,

They really got beef going over there at the Lululemon store, you know? Okay. So they didn't call the police because they believed it was just drama. Like...

girls fighting it's obviously nothing that's just what girls do i don't know i just feel like i'm nosy like if i in high school when there was a fight going on that i wasn't in i was definitely trying to see it you know and if something really bad is happening well you think you would have went next door i definitely think i would have grabbed everybody and convinced them to at least walk in with me or maybe knock on the wall they did knock on the wall did they yeah you didn't know that i

Okay, so during this time, they're hearing, like, commotion. And he does, he, like, knocks on the wall. The manager at the time, what's his name? Ricardo. Who? Ricardo. Ricardo, he knocks on the wall. You know how you tell a nosy neighbor to shut the fuck up? He's like, I guess, you know, those girls know we hear them now. Well, I guess I see why they didn't do anything.

Because that's what they did was nothing. They didn't call 911. They didn't go over there and check. You heard help me. You heard help me, though.

I'm going to be honest with you. All the podcasts are like, I can't believe that security guard didn't do anything. That's his job. He was rented for one purpose. Apple purpose only. He wasn't an actual officer. He was still a rent-a-cop. People ain't out here looking for extra work to do. And nobody takes them all cops seriously. I wonder if they don't even take themselves seriously. I wonder if they even take themselves seriously.

So anytime you really see, and maybe this is just the movies, but the only time you see the mall cops taking themselves seriously when it's that overzealous, like you couldn't be a cop, so you're a mall cop cop, you know? And those are usually the cops. It's really just me trying to get that working. And those are usually the security guards at the club in real life. Real life, the mall cops are the mall cops, and that's what it is.

So it's 1019. Now this is like nine minutes after they hear the original commotion and Ricardo and Yana continue to do their closing duties or whatever. Right. And then the security guard hears a crashing noise. Still, no one calls the police. It's now 1056 and the Apple employees leave for the evening. They were there a while ago.

Damn near a whole hour while that shit was going on. Through this whole hour, damn near, Noah checked to see what the commotion was. There was a commotion going on over there. Quite a commotion, actually. So, Brittany and Jaina, they go in the store. And Jaina, of course, knows where she left her shit. She grabs it. She's ready to go. And Brittany is kind of lollygagging in the back. And Jaina's like, what the fuck is this girl doing? Like, I'm ready to go home, but I already turned around for you. At least you can do a speed it on up, right? Right.

So Brittany's like, oh, gee, I can't find my wallet. What I'm going to do? What I'm going to do? Jaina's like, I'll tell you what. I've got an extra metro pass. You can take it. And she turns to hand it to Brittany. Brittany sucker punches her right. She sucker punches Jaina right in the head. And Jaina runs to the front of the store trying to leave. And Brittany drags her away.

to the back of the store, which is crazy, right? Because Brittany is dragging her to the back of the store. From there, she starts to beat Jaina with anything that she can find in the store. There's this toolbox back there. She's hitting her with a wrench.

She's slicing her with box cutters. She tied her throat with some rope, trying to suffocate her. Jaina was hit a minimum of 331 times with a fatal blow to the back of the head with a merchandise rack peg, like the little hook you put in the wall to hold shit. Mm-hmm. So now Jaina's dead, and Brittany's like, all right, fuck the right thing, I need to do something, right? So she's thinking, thinking. She's like, uh...

Like she looks outside and she sees Jada's car and she was like, first things first, I got to get rid of that shit. One, because their boss, Rachel, lives right across the street. And remember, she's going on this midnight date. So if she comes out the house and she sees Jada's car in front of the Lululemon store at midnight, she's going to come over and check it up.

What Brittany needs right now is time, okay? So she was like, got to go get rid of this car. Also, it's parked in like a fire lane, so it's also parked illegally. So if it's there too long, it's also going to raise suspicion, right? So she leaves outside. She goes parks the car a few blocks away. And then as she walks back to the store, she thinks of her master plan.

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So it's the next morning, Saturday, March 12th, 2011. It's 8 o'clock in the morning, and Rachel, our store manager that lives right across the way, approached the store to start her day. And when she entered, she was shocked because the store was ransacked. It was in a disarray. So she sees blaze shoe prints on the floor. She sees clothes, receipts.

seats everywhere. She's like, she's like, oh my gosh, I think we've been robbed. So she rushes out of the store and she calls 911 and she's like, oh my goodness, I think that Lululemon has been robbed. And this innocent bystander, his name is Ryan. He is in the long line waiting for Apple. I mean, Apple. He is in the long Apple line waiting for the iPad 2 to drop. He's like, hey, what's going on? And he volunteers to go in there and see what, what this young lady's all

Does work up about Ryan. He like, he enters the store. He sees bloodstains. He sees the sign of a struggle. And then he goes further back into the store and,

He's like, yo, what the fuck is happening? There's blood everywhere. And he sees blood seeping from this purple door because like this purple door led to the hallway that led to the back door where you take out the trash, where you get deliveries, that thing. So he sees blood coming from that door. He pushes it open and he can't even get it open. He's hitting the feet of

of dead Jana Murray. She was laying there, face down, in a pool of her own blood. She had a red toolbox on her back, and she was...

obviously dead. So he's like horrified. I mean, he sees everything. He sees there's a wrench near her, a hammer near her, all these random items. She's covered in blood. Like he's looking and there's blood splatter like six feet high and he's horrified. Right. And he's like about to get out of there. This good Samaritan Ryan. You know what I mean? Look what she signed up for. And so then he's like, ah, let me keep looking. And so he's on his way to the front of the store to see what he sees. And then he sees, uh oh, two legs sticking out.

Covered in zip ties.

And a woman laying unconscious on the floor. And her hands are tied. She's laying down with her hands over her head with zip ties. And her feet are also bound with zip ties, too. And, I mean, her face is bloodied. She's got, there's, like, rocks around her. She's cut, like, her pants and her panties were cut. Hers and Jaina's. The crotch of her pants. Let's just call a spade a spade here. That's what it was. And...

And this, he runs into Brittany. Brittany Norwood is laying there. And so he's like, are you okay? You know, what's going on? You know, of course, he asked Jaina the same thing. Jaina clearly didn't answer. He asked Brittany, and Brittany's like, hmm. And he hears a moan. So Ryan's like, oh, shit. And he runs back to the front of the store. He's like, oh, shit, call 911. There's a body because he says that he is former military. And so he knew not to mess with a crime scene. Maybe that's why he felt so compelled to help.

Right. And so when Ryan comes out, he tells Rebecca what he found. Rebecca already called about the robbery. She calls 911 again. And she's like, oh, my God, there's bodies in there. Like, call, bring the ambulance. Now, a single police officer, a single female police officer, she was on her way to the Lululemon to report the burglary. Right. Like, she doesn't need a whole squad. She just needs to make a report for the uppity folks. Right. So she's the first person to get on the scene. And she sees exactly what Ryan sees. Right.

in every single gory detail she sees that both of their underwear was cut and that's who i believe took the picture because there is a picture and you guys can find it it's anywhere of britney laying down and actually in the position and i was like who took that picture i really wanted to know and so the only conclusion that i can come up with is that this initial cop did it did um

Because Ryan just wouldn't, right? Right. I just... He wouldn't, right? So it had to have been her, in my mind. If anybody knows, let me know. So this police officer is shocked because, like...

There, everybody kept saying it was just so much blood and it was like deep red blood, like somebody, it wasn't just a cut, like you had been bleeding, laying out bleeding there for a while. And at this exact moment, they didn't even know who this was. Like her face was bashed in. She was completely unrecognizable. Right.

she was like slashed, pounded, wounds her head, everything. You know, they see Jaina's body. They're like, this is terrible. This is tragic. So they're like surprised that Brittany actually even survived the attack, right? They hear her moaning in the back or like just a few moans. And somebody said when they touched her initially, she flinched, right?

Right. Right.

So they're like, we just we're going to have to figure out what happened here. So Brittany, the survivor of the attack, is at the hospital and she's about to be interviewed by Detective Deanna Mackey of the Montgomery County Police Department.

Deanna and Brittany spoke for about 45 minutes. She went to the crime scene to tell the other detectives what the only surviving victim had said about in her statement. Now, the story that Brittany gave the detectives was that she and Jaina were working late the night before, and after leaving around 9.45 p.m., she realized that she left her wallet, so she called Jaina to see if she could meet her back at the store. Jaina obliged. They get to the store. She can't find her MetroCard. She's like, oh, no, Jaina offers hers back.

to use for the night. They're leaving out the employee bedroom in the back and from the front door, a guy comes out of nowhere and hits Jane in the face and then another guy grabs Brittany and is dragging her

buy her hair to the back, right? And the two men are in black ski masks and hoodies, and they just start attacking him, right? One of the guys is tall, one is short, they're demanding money. Brittany's like, they made me go to the small safe under the register, and she's telling me to open it, and she just hears the other guy in the back, and he's just torturing Jaina, right? And just so y'all know, it's about to start getting graphic. So,

So I need a warning first. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm about to say. Yeah, I know. I'm about to say what she's. He says. All the other podcasts are like, we won't say it. No, I'm going to say what the fuck he said.

So then she's like, they tied her up and they started raping her. And he's like telling her all this racist shit. Like, you're a dirty nigga, this, this, this. And she's like, every time he's saying something, he's just cutting me. And then she says, takes his dick out. And he's like about to put it in her. And he was like, you think I would be that stupid? You think I'd be that stupid to leave it in you? No. Instead, I'm going to fuck you with this. And I'm going to fuck you with this hanger and stuff. You think I'm so stupid that I would fuck you? You know what I mean? And...

She's like, then he took a coat hanger and these are like...

the coat hangers that keep up tank tops. So they've got ridges and shit on them. And like, if you look, there's got metal ridges on it. You know, some are soft and plastic or whatever. These are metal ridges on a wooden hanger, right? She's like, he's raping her with a hanger and he's saying all this racist shit to her. Balling when she's telling the officer this, like the waterworks are on, her voice is cracking. You can hear the audio. And then Brittany continues. And she was like, she hears screaming coming from Jaina. And she just kept screaming.

hearing him hit her and slice her. And I don't know how you hear a slice, but she heard it, right? So then she says she keeps hearing Jaina scream until suddenly it was silent. Next thing you know, she's knocked out with a big gash on her head and she doesn't even know what else happened after that, right? So the detective's like, okay, can you tell us anything about the guys? You know, what are their race?

whatever whatever right she was like i don't really i didn't get the chance to see their skin color but they sounded white like in the racist shit that they were saying seems like something like a white person would say right and then she says is my friend gonna be okay

Speaking of Jaina, right? She was given no information on the status of Jaina and was left alone in a hospital to heal and then discharged the next day. Detectives are like, OK, all of our focus needs to go on these like mass assailants, these two guys that we need to find. And what do we know? What do we know, people? We know that they were an all black group.

We know that one was tall, one was short. We're not sure about race. We know one had a book bag and that they would be around at that time. So they try to pull footage. Lululemon has no security cameras whatsoever. Not inside, not outside, not nothing. You would think that like, I guess when you're in an uppity place, you don't need them. Exactly. But Apple... In places like that, they don't want you to feel like you're a thief. So they'll like lessen their security to make the people feel comfortable and not watch. Like it's not like it's...

Burberry or something. You know what I mean? It's Lululemon. But, of course, there was cameras outside of Apple. They try to pull whatever footage they can find. And lo and behold, they see two men walking from the direction of the Lululemon store crossing the Apple cameras around the same time that everything seems to be going down.

And the detectives are like, well, God damn, like I just did my job. So freaking good. You know, right now the town is going crazy and they bring these two guys in and they're like, you know, and they're like, um, well, people usually come back to the scene of the crime. Let's see if good old fashioned detective work works again. That's crazy. And people usually come back to the scene of the crime. I know. And so they stake out the joint and just like clockwork,

Two guys wearing black around the same time. One tall, one short, one wearing a bag was there. And they were like, hey, guys, gonna have to tell you to come down here with me. The men come and they get questioned by the police. The police are like, hey, are these pictures on CCTV? Are these you? And the gentlemen are like, yes, they are, actually, as a matter of fact. And they're like, what the fuck? What happened? And they're like, what do you mean? Like, these niggas are busboys. Yeah.

And dishwashers at the local restaurant. And the restaurant that's really close on Bethesda Row. And so, of course, they're wearing all black. And they're coming home because they're walked to the bus. Oh, my gosh. What's up? It just finally clicked with me. What did? These niggas probably ride her bus all the time. She knew to frame them. Everybody was like, it's such a coincidence. It's such a coincidence. It's not. Yeah.

You think so? Because they all got on the bus from the mall at the same time? Because they would all get off around the same time. Oh, everybody was like, it's too close of a coincidence. I know, right? I was like, that's crazy. That is too... Ah, you out, bitch. Okay, so...

Easily they rule these two guys out because they don't know what the heck is going on. And so then everybody's like, okay, well, there's this homeless guy. His name is Keith Lockett, right? And Keith is known to just be getting into fights with everybody. And he's a homeless dude, but he's also a regular at this bar. You know, he'll go out and beg and spend it on liquor. He was also known for getting into bar fights the whole nine. So just so happens the night of the Lululemon murder,

He was not at his local drinkery. And everybody was like, suspicious? Very much so. So they find him. And turns out he's checked into a hospital because he's got wounds. So they're like, ding, ding, ding. We've got our man. Once again, they go. They see him. And he's just babbling on and on about how he got into a fight with another homeless guy. And da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And the police were like, yeah, not him because...

The blood on him, yeah, he got his ass beat, but, like, the blood on him is not enough compared to the crime scene. Right. And they was like, take care of yourself. Bye. And then they were back to the drawing board.

So on Saturday, like the detectives are detectiving and looking around the crime scene, seeing what they can find. And in the crime scene, they're seeing these like footprints. They're trying to make heads and tails of it. Everybody's trying to get their pictures and all. They're doing their jobs. OK, I guess the detective, he looks up and he's like, interesting size 14 sneakers here at the Lululemon store.

What are these here for? They ask and they're like, oh, you know, we have shoes because the men's, a lot of the men's clothing we tailor to their bodies. So we try to estimate what it needs to be based off of their sneaker length. He pulls it down and he's like, the pattern on the back of this shoe really matches the pattern that I'm seeing on the floor. Wait a minute. And he's like, ah, but these are clean. Like, ah, you know.

And then he starts to realize, you know, there's only like two sets of footprints. They don't know, you know, they're trying to figure it out. They're still scratching their heads and they're like, ah, this is crazy. Like the town is going crazy. We've got to solve this case, right? Like,

Two masked men. I see these patterns. Is it possible? And the town is just, like, going wild. Bethesda Row, their sales, the entire area that week, their sales cut in half. And around the city, self-defense products, like, shot up in sales. And I'm sure that I probably would have started a class on self-defense. I don't even know shit. Come on over here, take a class. Tell you how to beat somebody's ass. On Monday...

It was supposed to be Brittany's interview with the Equinox, but, you know, she was so distressed that she didn't end up going to her interview. Of course, you know, she's been brutally attacked. Right. But instead, her sister actually called the police detectives and was like, you know, Brittany has more to say. She says that she remembered more. Won't y'all come over? And around 8 p.m., Detective Drury and Detective Reuven come in and they're out of uniform.

They're just, you know, coming basically to check on her, make sure that everything's okay. We just want to talk. We just want to talk. The conversation was recorded.

And notes were taken and they asked Brittany again what happened. And Brittany gives the exact same statement. She tells the exact same statement, the same story that she told Detective Mackey at the hospital. And the detectives are like, you know, these footprints, we're trying to figure it out. We're not really sure. And, you know, they're trying to tell her the things that we can't figure out. Like, why did they keep you alive? And she was like, oh, it was so horrible. They said that the reason that they kept me alive is because I was fun to fuck.

And I was just a dirty slut. And they were just, and Jaina, she was just in there yelling for help. And she, and of course, like Brittany, again, she's getting so emotional. And at the end of the interview, she tells the text, you know, she was like, you know, things are getting really hard. And I just, I feel like it's my time. Like, I feel like I need to go back home to Seattle.

I like how she laid that out there. Just so you... Not fleeing. Not fleeing. I'm just real shooken up, okay? The text is like, ah, one more thing, one more thing. We cannot find Jaina's car keys. Have you seen it? Do you know what happened to it? And she's like...

No, I don't know. Because at the crime scene, they found her wallet. It was like in it was like stuffed in a chair in the back area. So if she was like reasonably couldn't find if it was like stuff down on the couch. OK. And they also found that Jada had a duffel and in it was her laptop. It was like a bottle of wine. And yeah, you know, she was also here.

she grown. She's about to be her man. And so they, and they found her, her student ID, but they could not find her car keys. No keys, no cash. And I was just like, damn, can't find it. So they ask you, have you ever seen her car? Do you know what her car looks like? Do you know anything about it? She's like, no, I've never seen her car. And they were like, never. You don't never want, she's like, I ain't never seen. And they were like, all right, well we'll be in touch.

And the detectives, again, they do their detectiving and their investigating. And on the next day, March 15th, they find Jaina's car. It's illegally parked about three blocks away from the store. And they're confused because outside of the car on the tires, they see blood. And on the inside, they find blood. But they know for a fact.

That Jenna's dead body and make it back into the car. For sure. And Brittany wasn't in it. She never seen the car. And we don't have any masked assailants. Questions that need answers. So detectives, they go back and they got to think about some things. So they sit down in their thinking chair and think. And think. And think. Use your mind. You take a step at a time. You can do anything. Anything.

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Check out her website at audrey-gram.com to get these books for your young ones and show that the colors of friendship are endless. They're like, okay, we've got these size 14 men's shoes and they're put away in the lemon store. And they're like, I didn't even know they sold shoes, but you know, like Mariah said, they match perfectly to the blood. So...

We have this men's size 14 footprint. This clean 14 shoe. Like, it can't be that one, right? Uh-huh. And then Brittany's footprint. Uh-huh. Out of the four people in the store, those are the only two bloody footprints that we have. If Jaina was, like, you know, around and, like, fighting or whatever, wouldn't she have footprints there? Wouldn't the other person? Jaina's, the bottom of Jaina's shoes were clean other than drops that came from above. Right.

Right, so they're saying if she wasn't down. But at least her attacker would have had footprints. So there at least would have been three. Another thing, there's no footprints on the outside of the store. Just the inside. So what, everybody packed a second pair of shoes? Then they're like, then let's jump to Brittany. Brittany's got a big-ass wound on her head that needed some stitches. But Jaina's like dead, dead, right? Like she's been brutally attacked. We couldn't even recognize her.

why do you brutally murder this girl? And then just kind of attack the other. They're sending, like, way different range. And that's dark to think, but, like, if you're in the same area, even if it was two attackers. Mm-hmm. And then they're like, these attackers didn't come with anything. All the, nobody brought their own weapon, it looks like. Everything that was used to attack Jaina came from inside the store. The box cutter, the ropes.

The merchandise preg. The zip ties even that they were tied with were from inside the store. You didn't even bring your own duct tape. Nothing. No gun. Because how she was beaten, if you had a gun, you just would have shot her. You know what I mean? So we're supposed to think that they brought their own shoes to make a clean getaway, but they didn't bring any weapons. So the detective, he's thinking and he's like, on top of this, she's describing like...

the worst man in the world. He's a racist. He's a rapist. He's a thief. You're no good. Heartbreaker. You're a liar. And you're a cheat. He's basically the boogeyman. And the whole town is on high alert for this damn boogeyman, right? Like, this is everybody's worst nightmare. You know what I'm saying? Like, and then if he was a racist, that doesn't even make a white people feel safe because he's

kill the white one you know what I mean and also like you don't know who this boogeyman's motivation is like the girls are like uh uh not closing everybody's like not coming to work no one's staying out late like you don't know is this like the night stalker where they're just anybody is at random is it just the girls working at Lululemon like who is it stores are like hiring security to escort people to their cars like everybody's really shaken up by this you know

And they're like, again, you know, what the fuck is the motivation? They got, what, $600, $900? And it was like, even if it was a robbery gone wrong, it doesn't end like this. Because you know what they say. After a certain amount of stabs, it turns from just something that happened to, like, some passion, some personal shit. Like, you know what I mean? After a certain number, it turns into somebody you know. So for it to be a random attack to do them this bad, like...

This is a psychopath. You know what I'm saying? This is not just your regular armed robbery. So they're like, could this story be this crazy? But they have to play their cards right because they're like, do we believe her? No. Are we going to outright say we don't believe her? No.

Why? Because she came to us as a sexual assault victim, right? And we're not about to just go right off her story. Because if there is a slim chance that she's not lying or that at least part of the story is true, I'm not going to be out there calling this bitch a liar and tell her that this didn't really happen to her. I mean, it's a whole bunch of old white men that is going to tell a 27-year-old black girl that she was not raped.

It's not going to fly. In a prominent... And racial slurs were being told to her while she was being raped at a very prominent white area, at a very prominent white store. Like, no. So...

It's Wednesday, March 16th. What? Five days after the murder and the police are on their third interview, right? So, Brittany's summoned to the police station. They're like, check this out. We need your hair, blood, and fingerprint samples so that we can differentiate you from your assailants, right? Like, we want to go ahead and roll out all your blood so we can see who we're left with, right? This was both a lie and a trap because, like we said, the cops are already suspecting her. But...

they are not ready to act, right? They need to, like, solidify their case. And this is why they have not Mirandized her because she's technically not under the arrest, right? So what they're waiting on is to match her blood with the blood that they found in Jaina's car just the day before, right? So she gets there. They fingerprint her. They take her samples. They small talk. And they're, like, sad.

So you don't know what Jaina's car looks like. And she was like, okay, man, like I seen it, but like I can't describe it, which that is me in most people's car. I don't know cars. I don't know cars. I do not know cars. I've been in Brie's car maybe 20 times. Can I point it out? No. I know a Honda and Kia's actually say it. And now the new Kia's. It took me a minute. I was like, oh, goodness. Can I ask a new logo? Oh, goodness. I don't know cars. I know a Ford because it says it.

I know a ram because I know the animal. I know the logos, but like, am I going to be able to know that that car is yours? No. Absolutely not. They're like, all right, you know, whatever, whatever. Let you go. We're going to run these through the labs. We'll be in touch the next day, Thursday, March 17th. Chris and Marissa Norwood, her brother and sister, call the police.

They said that Brittany has just a little bit more to tell them, right? So the cops are like, all right, just bring her in tomorrow. All right, so it's Friday, March 18th. This is her fourth time talking to the police, and it's 10 in the morning. Brittany, Chris, and Marissa, they all arrive at the police station. Like, good brothers and sisters, like, really got her back. Brittany... I want to say goodbye to you, too.

It's never a right time to say goodbye. Brittany's talking to the officer. She's talking about her plans for the future. She's talking about how she wants to move back to Seattle. And she says, oh, you know, I wanted to talk to you guys because I remember that I actually, I forgot to tell you that I actually had been in Jaina's car. What had happened was before the guys sexually assaulted and zip-tied me up,

They told me to go into Jaina's purse and get her keys, go and move her car into a different parking lot because, you know, it was illegally parked. And maybe that'll explain, you know, why the blood's in the car and some ones might come back a little positive, I mean. Right. And they were like, so you got in the car and drove away?

three blocks away and came back why it's just like well they said they were watching me and they said if you do anything like i know where you live i know you don't even know who they are i would definitely call your bluff you don't know me and then they're like how did you get back and she's like i walked

So you were at least fucked up a little bit. Jaina, you said it has never left that back room. And for some reason, for some reason, you got to go move the car, come back and walk back. And nobody saw you. She said, actually, I saw a cop.

I saw a cop come by, but I didn't wave him down or anything because I was so scared. And she's like, I was just so worried. They said that they knew where I lived. I got to keep my family safe. I live with my sister and her fiance. And then she says, also, I just remembered, I was wearing a black hat. And they were like, oh, really? You don't say. She's like, yes, I think maybe I might have left it in her car. It's a lot of details for somebody who had never, uh-uh, no way, hadn't even seen the car.

And it's crazy because the police were like bonkers because it just so happens that we found a black hat. And they knew at this time that it just so happened that blood was on that hat matching Jaina Murray. And it just so happens that like the sweatband inside of the hat, that DNA happened to test positive for Brittany. So we knew that it was Brittany's hat inside of Jaina's car with Jaina's blood on it.

So crazy how she just happened to bring that up, right? And the police are like, okay, I hear what you're saying, girl. But these shoe prints, like it's yours and this size 14 Lululemon shoe print. And they're back there near your body. But I see a shoe print, but you told me that you never saw the attack. And she's like, oh, yes, like I did see the attack. I forgot. They took me and they threw me to the back room and they

pushed me on top of her and she fell and they were like well can you be more specific how did you like straddle like face down what like what happened and she was like I fell on top of them on top of her and that's why my my feet tracks are over there and they were just saying so much racist shit and then they pulled me back and that's when I got attacked my feet tracks my foot tracks foot prints girl but

Yes. I'm going to keep it. Not a wild animal. They were talking about, what's it called? Rosalie's sons. Like, we were tracking them through the woods last week. Yeah, that was a different time. Listen. So the detectives, they're just, you know, they're not buying it. And she's kind of being combative during this statement. She feel them cracks. Yeah. And finally, the police are like, all right, fuck it. Let me tell you what I think.

So they're like, let's start with the injuries that you have. They're self-inflicted and we know it, right? And she was like, no, no, I would never do that to myself, right? They're like, second of all, you're a thief. You know it. Everybody knows it. And they, Jaina and Rachel at the store knew it too. And she's like, no, that's not me. I wouldn't do that. Jaina was my friend. So she's denying, she's denying. She was like, you know what? I'm getting a little worked up. Can I speak to my brother and sister?

And the cops are like, you know what? Maybe, you know, this family seems like a really good family. She comes from a nice place. Maybe they can talk some sense into her. So, yeah. Bring them all in. Right? So, Chris and Marissa are escorted back to the room with Brittany and another detective. And the detective turns up to the brother and sister and is like, so let's tell you what we got on your sister. They lay out the evidence for them. That's pretty bold. Yeah. In front of you, like, to see how you would act. Because, I mean...

I'm telling you right now, depending on what sister I'm with, depends on how comfortable or uncomfortable I feel in that situation. Oh, my gosh. They're like, the story's not making sense. And so the detectives tell them they lay out all the evidence and they're like, her story just doesn't make any sense. And Chris is a little hesitant. He's a little confused. And they're like, we're just going to come out with it. It's almost impossible that these two women were raped and beaten together.

and killed. One is killed by two men in mass. And then it's Brittany who's covered in her body. And then Brittany has to move the dead girl's car and walk back to the store where they didn't tie her back up and leave her on the floor alive as a living witness. They're like, everything is contradicting her statements. And Chris is the logical one. And he's like, all right,

detective be straight with me what's your theory and they're like the theory is that britney killed jaina and britney says uh-uh and chris and marissa are still there and marissa starts to lose her shit like no no not my sister not my sister she's gonna be hysterical they're like ma'am come on we're gonna take you outside i'm sorry you just this is obviously too much for you let's bring you on out

And Chris is sitting there, you know, keeping a cool head. He's trying to reason with the detectives. And he's like, okay, okay, what if she did kill her? Then why would she move her car? And he's just like, he's trying to make sense of it. And the detectives...

They're like, we don't know and we'd like to know, you know? Brittany's the only one who can tell us. So Brittany asked her brother if she can go now since they came in willingly. But a few moments later, after they're trying to talk and convince Chris what the detectives really thought happened, Brittany was not read her rights, but handcuffed to the table and was not allowed to leave. So before they left, the police officers came.

handed a picture to chris like a picture of jana and he was like this is jana and like the picture of her laying down and they're like yeah this is her and you know her pants are ripped everything and chris is just like he's just standing there like it's a huge it's like a pincer pause like he's just standing there he's like i don't know what to do and chris asked her asked britney like do you want to say anything britney doesn't say anything the detective keeps going on like

I think that there was no robbery. He's saying everything that he believes. And finally, Chris is like, can I talk to my sister by myself? Let me just, let me, let me talk to her on my own.

And they're like, sure. And they, you know, they go out, they excuse themselves. And literally when they're leaving, they're going to obviously a surveillance room. And one of the people that was with them, like, they were like, what do you think they're saying? And everybody's like, shut the fuck up, because they're trying to hear everything that's going on in this room. Clearly they're being surveilled. And in there they see Chris ask her, like, should I ask you? Did you?

And all she says is that all she says back is, I don't want to talk about it here. I just want to go, Chrissy. And he goes, listen, listen, I don't know if they're going to let you go. You need to tell me right now. Did you do it? And she's like, Chrissy, I just want to go home. And he's like, listen, Brittany, I'm not going to fucking rat you out, but I need you to tell me so I know how to talk to these guys. Because if you did this, you know, we got to go get a lawyer. Like things have to be put in order. Right.

And so Bernie's like, are you sure that they can hear us? Like, can they hear us? And he's like, listen, he's an engineer. He's like, I looked around for listening devices. There's nothing in this room. If they did, if they recorded this, they can't even use it in court. It's not admissible. You're fine. Like somehow he knows everything. He's like, what we're going to do, we're going to have to get you a defense attorney. We've basically got two options. Like he starts, you know, being a big brother mode. He's like option number one.

is that we can say that you were, like, temporarily insane or something like that, but the problem with that, he's like, you know, you talk to many people. Like, you talk to detectives, you talk to detectives. They done had a psychiatrist call the house or whatever, and she's like... Everybody knows you're not crazy. Everybody knows that you're not, you know, off the rocker. And she's like, I didn't talk to the psychiatrist. He's like, yes, you did. You was on the phone with the psychiatrist yesterday. I fucking heard you. And...

She just can't stop, huh? Her brother is like, okay, plan number two could be that, you know, we devise that we say that she tried to attack you may turn into a self-defense thing. Obviously, great choice.

And, but this doesn't look good because you tried to fucking cover it up, dumbass. And he's like, all right, let me see if I can get you out of here, okay? Brittany's just like, I'm so sorry, Chris. I'm so sorry, Chris. Like, you know, like, and she's crying. She's like, I damn near had a job. Like, I think that's the worst feeling is being a disappointment. Yeah. Yeah.

And she, and Chris is like trying to coax her. He's like, okay, she attacked. Okay. So what, then what happened? She's like, I don't know. She said that she was going to tell our manager on me or something. And she's like, let your manager, tell your manager on what? Tell him what? That you were shoplifting. And she was like, but I wasn't like, I really wasn't. I haven't sold anything. And he looks at her. He's like, have you stolen from that store before? And she's like, Chris, listen, honestly, I haven't. I wouldn't. I was doing good. And then he like gets down and he whispers to her. He's like, I'm going to tell you something.

You've done it three times. When they ask you a question, you look down and you're looking to your left. That means you're lying, okay? If you're going to lie when you talk to them, find something in the room. You see that red button over there? Look at that red button every time. Do not look at anything else. He's just like nip-a-dip-a.

Shut up. He's like, you have a tail and you need to fix it. If you're going to lie your way out, you better be a better fucking liar. And then he's like, not fooling me right now. And he's like, and I know because I lie all the time. So I'm going to need you to clean it up. So I can figure out how to get you out of this shit. And they're like, got her. So Chris goes out and he tells Marissa everything that happens. He says, okay, this is what happened. J-Nex, she's Brittany of Shoplifting.

And Brittany lost it. She snapped. And, you know, she's like, Chris, I don't know what happened. And then she spent the rest of the night trying to cover it up. And that's why she hasn't been able to sleep. And Marissa and Chris, they were like, you know, love you, girl. Leaving you here, obviously, because she was under arrest. And after they left, the detectives went back to talk to her. And Brittany's like, I didn't start it.

She just said that she wasn't able to say anything. She's like, I can't. I just, I just, I don't want people to think I'm horrible. Like she said that to them or whatever. But that night, a press release went out that 28 year old Brittany Norwood was charged with first degree premeditated murder of 30 year old Jaina Murray.

Now, Jaina's family found out about this confession arrest while they were on the way to Jaina's funeral. And, like, their family, I read that, like, their family was trying to send flowers to the hospital to Brittany. Because, like, both of our families have gone through a horrible thing. Don't have survivor's guilt. You know what I'm saying? Don't feel bad. It's not your fault that you survived. Don't take it too hard. You know, we're all with you.

It's hard for everybody. We understand. I just would be real sympathetic like they don't have their own grief to deal with. Right. And they didn't send them because actually Brittany was like, you know, I didn't want the flowers. You know, it's not about the flowers. It's just about my friend. To find out on the way to the funeral, though, they've already had to do all of this. And it's going to be a hard day already to get through. But like, talk about some icing on the damn cake. Right. It took seven months for them to start the trial proceedings. Right.

They recorded every single one of her jailhouse calls, and they didn't really get anything of use.

Only thing was, you know, I hated hair. My nails and my hair looked jagged. Because remember, she liked to keep her nails done, her hair done, everything did. They said that was all it was about. And I was like, you can't tell me that for seven months, all she said on the phone. During a pretrial motion, they tried to disqualify all of Brittany's statements. As we've seen, there's a lot of statements. It's got a lot of add-ons and amendments, right? Mm-hmm. So her defense said that the cops had already thought

Correct.

They made sure to leave the door open during these interviews so that legally she could leave, but they're not telling her any of this. You see that all the time. Right. Instead, the detectives maintained the fact that they did not think that she was a suspect until her arrest on Friday, March 18th. There was talk of maybe offering her a plea deal and being paroled after 15 years so that she could at least tell them what happened, but she did not accept the plea deal.

And then again, before the trial, the judge ruled that Rachel, the store manager conversation with Jaina, was hearsay. So the jury wouldn't hear that at trial. So that text message, like, I'm going to fire her in the morning. Yeah, all that shit. So, like, it's just a big question of why would Brittany want to kill Jaina? You know, that they have to kind of prove and argue in court, right? And the fence thought, you know, this is a win. You know, no motive whatsoever.

No conviction, right? Not a first degree. Yeah, that was like she maybe get second degree or whatever, but no way they'll get her on premeditated with this. Right. And this was, you know, looked at as a huge loss for the prosecution. And I had to find a new way to tell why Brick brutally murdered Jaina. But they gathered all their evidence and they got ready to go to trial.

Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial, bitch. Take that shit to trial. It's October 26, 2011, and opening statements have begun. There were 200 people that attended the court proceedings. And it was the first time that anybody had saw Brittany not in an orange jumpsuit since she was arrested. They were like, her brother, Jaina's brother, was just like pissed. Like, Jaina had like big brothers, and they were pissed.

They were just hard to contain. I really wanted one, too. They were just hard to contain their anger when they saw Brittany. Of course, the defense comes in during their opening statements, and they say, listen, there was no motive. You know, they're using their win. They shocked the courtroom because they just outright said, listen, my client did it. She was responsible. But listen, this was not premeditated.

She just lost it, you know? Like, yes, yes, she did it. We're not denying that. But she just snapped. And Defense is like, listen, there was a fight between the two girls. Brittany just happened to see in red again. That's like my favorite Ingrid song. And Brittany, you know, she just started, she lost it. She started seeing red. They said it was unplanned. That's why objects in the store were being used. And she was so frustrated.

She knew that she had seen red. She knew that it was bad. And so her natural instinct was to downplay it and cover it up and make it seem like someone else had done it or that she had lost her mind. Now, the prosecution is like, listen, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Brittany is a liar and she is a cold blooded killer. They have proof and witnesses that the women were arguing and

Could not wait. I just can't wait. Love opening statements. Oh, jury, we cannot wait to tell you about how she faked a robbery. And although they couldn't talk motive, you know, because the shopping shoplifting was hearsay or whatever. Right. So their strategy, instead of to talk about why she did it, they talked just about the brutality of the murder. And they,

So prosecution saying no reason and defense. I mean, defense is saying you have no reason for us to do this. And prosecution is saying there may be no reason, but the brutality was enough. And they said that Brittany, they were like, ladies and gentlemen, Brittany tricked Jayna into coming back in that store and then brutally assaulted and killed her. And they oh, they were here to prove it.

So the prosecution decided, listen, this is what we're going to do. We're just going to lay it out exactly what happened because they were like how, that's why this case I feel like is so well known because they had to tell everything that happened in order to get the point across in order to get the conviction that they want it because they could not say that it was over a stolen pair of leggings. So they say, all right, after coming back into the store, um,

Brittany and Jaina went to the back of the store where the employees kept their personal belongings. The fight started, and Brittany hit Jaina hard in the head, and it started bleeding so bad that Jaina fell to the floor. And she, like, was grabbing her hair in defense. She was on her knees. She wasn't all the way to the ground yet. Yeah, they said she was grabbing so hard, like, her hair was still in between her fingers. Yeah. Like, that's how they found her, with, like,

loose strands in her hands. So she stumbles and she falls and a palm print is found on like the outside wall of going in before you go into the back area. The first of the back areas. So it's like, you'll see a map. Oh, we'll post a map. And it's that handprint. The reason they know that is because it's Jaina's handprint in Jaina's blood. So after that, Jaina is in fight or flight escape mode. Like she's still a strong ass girl, right? Yeah.

She runs for the back door. She probably is. She remembers that, you know, the front door is locking because it locks after them. She bursts through the purple door. And this is like the purple door that goes to the hallway that goes to the final back door where you get deliveries or take out the trash. And she's trying to get out of that back back door. Mm hmm.

It's an emergency exit and it just so happens she has the key too. So she's probably running. They're saying she's running back there with the key trying to get out. The key was in the door. That's so scary. That's that shit you see on the movies when they finally make it to the exit and then something drags them back in. The key was in the door. But, you know, Miss Wannabe personal trainer was right behind her, pulled her back.

back by the hair, dragged her to the narrow part of that hallway, up against the wall, the wall that is shared with the Apple store. And once she gets a hold of Jaina, Brittany hits, stabs, slashes, pounds in Jaina's face, head, body, even like

Her hands stopped moving, but they said that she was still alive. And you said it earlier, she had a minimum of 331 wounds. But the reason that we have to say a minimum is because there were so many that they didn't even count the overlapping ones. So if you got hit two times, if I hit you two times in the same spot and made one bruise...

That's still only counting as one. And if something overlaps and we can't count it all the way, it's not going to get counted. So that's just a minimum. In the 105 defensive wounds, of course, that's you putting up a fight. That means they were like, sis fought to the very end. And she was alive for most of it. That metal peg is like eight pounds.

So being hit in the head with that, like... So at the time, she was kind of running up against the back door. That's when Apple employees had it.

heard someone say, what's going on? At the time where Jaina's running towards the back door or whatever, that's when they feel that the Apple employees heard someone say, what's going on? And the way the prosecution lays it out is that they feel like this was when Brittany... I guess Jaina was trying to defuse the situation, right? Brittany continues with her attack, and when she finally gets to the knife, she stabbed through the base of the brain, severing her spinal cord.

The stabs, you can tell they came late in the attack because of the amount of blood that was coming off of Jaina's body from these points. So what happened was they said Brittany walked into the kitchen and took the serrated bread knife off the wall. And that's when she finally found her weapon that she was going to use to kill Jaina. And when she stabbed her, Jaina was dead in less than a minute. They suspect...

that

The attack lasted about 15 minutes, but nobody can really say for sure, right? Brittany's not speaking. Jaina's for sure not speaking, right? Right. So nobody can really tell how long it goes on, and all they can do is estimate how much time it takes to do the attack. It was just so interesting to me hearing about... I know this is so weird that it was so interesting, but it was so interesting to me hearing about Jaina and, like, how they were able to tell that she was alive through that entire thing because...

of how your blood travels to wounds as your heart is beating. So, like, as she started, as her heart started slowing, you could tell which wounds were coming later and later. Like, that is, but they could tell which ones were, she was really alive for, which were most of them because of the more your heart is beating, the more your blood is rushing. Science. That was crazy to me. Yeah. The prosecution also lays out that Brittany killed Jenna while wearing a pink

pair of size seven and a half new balances. They said she took them off, stepped into the size 14 Reeboks that were kept at the store for alterations and walked through the blood to make footprints of like for the attackers. Right. But they weren't in the front of the store. Only the size seven and a half footprints on in the front of the store. Right. So then there's a sink in the back. And when they looked at it,

With Luminol, they can tell that she's cleaned everything off, like the whole thing is lit up. And so they assume that she took the bottom of the size 14 V-Box and cleaned it with the Windex and 409 and the green scrub brush that they kept there.

Because there's blood all over that, too, that's washed off. And they could see that there was blood on the hot water handle, too, right? And that also explains why the pair of shoes at the store were clean but still matched, right? And...

But in washing the shoes, one thing that she did forget to clean was the shoelaces. And, like, her laces were untied and it kept flopping underneath her shoe. So, in the shoe print, you could see that lace flopping and leaving a trail the whole time, right? And it's seen at the sink, right? Like, after she cleans it, because she did not clean the shoelace, like... Right. How do you miss that? So...

Then they say that she went to the bathroom and got a towel to dip in Jaina's blood to create bloodstains. And they're like, a little bit of time after this, Brittany cuts Jaina's pants and underwear to make it look like she had been sexually assaulted and then cuts hers too. And then she finalizes her master cover-up plan by cutting her face and cutting, like, other parts of her body and tying herself up with zip ties.

Also, she left some bloody footprints. She went and put on the shoes, stepped in Jaina's blood, and then just walked around randomly and aimlessly. They said it looked like she was in there doing a goddamn chicken dance. So...

So then she looked, she thought she could get away with it, and she laid down in Jaina's blood in the bathroom and waited for somebody to come and rescue her and believe her story. Brittany laid there from 10.30 p.m. to 8 a.m., longer than the shift she was scheduled to work for. You know, they also found weird, and they pointed out, like, she was zip-tied in the front, in the front. Yeah.

But when they found her, her arms are over her head. And she was conscious enough that, like, I feel like I would have been in, like, if I was alive, I'd be in the fetal position. You know, like, especially, like, if I've been there for a long time, the attack happened so long ago, I still would not be with my hands over my head if I can at least put them in front of me.

And they were like, don't tell me, you know, one plus one. The prosecution said, listen, this is why it's premeditated first degree murder. Because Brittany killed Jaina with multiple weapons. And each time that she picked a new object, which we know is 10, but suspect to be about 15 different objects. Each time she made a choice. She made a choice.

to continue on with this attack on Jaina. And each time that you made that choice, it is premeditation. The prosecution also brings in a blood splatter witness. Now, this blood splatter witness comes in and testifies the blood splatter, where it travels. We talked about the high mid-range. But they also showed a picture of the break room that...

Part of the attack happened. There were shoe prints in there and there was like a chair overturned. There's some ugly orange chairs. There's a ladder and they're like, an attack happened in here. And this ladder is still standing up right. And they look and see that there's blood and it seems like there might have been an attack, but no.

there was no blood found underneath any of those things, objects. It was just like, oh, this just feels just so staged, right? And the blood splatter expert is like, yeah, seems staged to me. The blood not here and here, like you, it, now when the ME took the stand, the medical examiner was cross-examined and, you know, they have to go through all the autopsy photos and you can find a lot of the photos for this case really just anywhere. Um,

She had, out of those 331 cuts and stabs, she had 152 to the head and 105 to her hands and arms. And like we said, in defensive, like they were defensive wounds. The prosecution said, listen, Brittany...

She's a kleptomaniac. She has a personality disorder. She's a pathological liar. She has a lack of remorse or guilt. She had a problem and she was about to be caught again. And her solution to that problem was to kill somebody. Is that somebody we want on the street? I think not. The defense, they stuck with their story. They said, yes, you know, she killed her. She killed her, not premeditated, should be charged with second degree murder. Do you know that her defense did not call up one witness? No.

What can you say? So, after the closing arguments, the jury had to go and decide if they were going to charge her with either first-degree or second-degree murder. And on November 2nd, 2011... Sorry, that's my birthday. It's voting day. On November 2nd, 2011, the jury was ready to deliver their verdict just 10 minutes. 10 minutes after closing arguments. I mean, like, you couldn't even go stretch your legs. I think everybody...

was so terrified. Like, she didn't have that strong of a story, but I think everybody still sat with that fear. Mm-hmm, for a while. Yeah, so trying to speak in that trial just probably took them back to that place and was like, whoever made me feel that, yeah, you need to be off the street. And she is, because they found her guilty of first-degree murder after 10 minutes. Brittany's reaction was pretty subtle. Like...

What could you expect? So Friday, January 27, 2012 was her sentencing. Now the jury convicted Brittany, but now it was time for the judge to, uh, tell her how much time she's going to serve. So like I said, she received 60 letters from friends and family asking to please just let her have some hope and give her a chance for parole. Right. Please just let her have parole. Um,

It was Brittany's turn to speak, and she stood up and she asked if she could address the Murray family. And she said, quote,

I need for you to hear me tell you how deeply sorry I am. My hope for your family is that someday you will be able to find forgiveness in your heart and peace. I am truly sorry for my family. As you know, I couldn't have asked for a better family. Mom and Dad, you've been loving and supportive. To my brothers and sisters, I've always had a special bond with each of you.

I'm truly best to have you as my family. Your Honor, I understand I'll be severely punished for the crime I have been convicted of. And now I face a possible lifetime in prison. I know there are many people who want for me to have a sentence without hope. But I'm asking you today to leave me with some. I ask this for my family, for my mom and dad. Thank you. So her family starts crying. Girl, don't even want to hear that. So then the judge speaks and he was like,

Listen, I guess we'll never know, Miss Norwood, whether you went back to the Lululemon store or

If you intended to kill Miss Mary. I'm not 100% that when you went back there that that was your intention. But once you started your assault, you reveled in the gore. You found yourself an incredible strength to rain down more than 300 blows with a variety of instruments. With adrenaline coursing through your body, you mutilated this woman. After every blow, you had a chance to think about what you were doing. The lies that you told afterwards were incredible. You're one hell of a liar, ma'am.

I watched your family during this trial, and I wanted to cry for them. And he started talking about how most people he sentenced don't have a family, but she did, and he just can't understand why she would throw her life away. He also was like, he wanted her to know, like, he took time into considering this. And he says, I sat at home, and I hit an object over and over like this. It took me 300 seconds.

He said, for me to do that 350 times, it took me three minutes. For me to do that 331 times, it took me three whole minutes. You switched up your weapons. You, like, how many times did you switch up your weapons? Like, you had plenty of time to stop. You had plenty of pauses and breaks, and you just didn't take advantage of any of them. So then he asked Brittany to stand up.

And he says it is a sentence of this court that you be confined to the Maryland Division of Correction for the balance of your natural life without the possibility of parole. I just feel like Maryland must not be a deaf state. It's up north. They don't usually have the death penalty up north, do they? Because I know in Georgia, I feel like they would have probably tried to get. You think they would have went for life? I think they would have went for death. Yeah, that's what I meant.

If you're listening to this, you probably already know what I'm about to say. That today is the day for you to start your podcast. You have everything that you need. Your computer, a little microphone, and Spotify for podcasters. It is the all-in-one platform where you can host, edit, and record your podcast and distribute it everywhere. Where you're listening right now, you can have your podcast there. I promise. For real. And it's free. And you can make some money off of your podcast. For free. Free.

Free money. Free money is out there. Just go get it by starting your podcast today. Streaming October 6th on Paramount+. First place I learned about death was the Pet Sematary. Dead things buried in that land would come back. There's something else. Something's wrong with Timmy. He needs time to adjust. That's not Timmy. Something's talking to him.

Sometimes dead is better. Pet Cemetery. Bloodlines. Rated R. Streaming only on Paramount+. All right, y'all. It's time for... Well, I'm not black. I'm OG. I ain't do it, but if I did...

I would have used the same rope that was on Jaina to tie me up because she was tied up with zip ties. And at the end of her, you know, to tie yourself up, you need to pull a zip tie to tie it. So she did her feet. And then when she tried to do her hands, she had to do it with, she had to tighten it with her mouth. It just so happened that the teeth, and there were teeth mark in it. And it just so happened those teeth mark were too small to send in so they didn't use it in court. But like, girl, no.

Yeah. There's rope right there. You know where it is, clearly. I mean, I think she probably would have faced the same issue trying to tie the rope behind her back, but I think...

I think if she got crafty enough, she could have tied the zip ties behind her back. I don't think she was thinking hard enough. But you could have, like, put your hands behind your back. Like, start the circle, right? Slip your hands in behind your back and, like, get a jaw open. There's a way to do it. Put your hip against the jaw and pull your arms away so that it pulls it tighter. It might be a bit of a struggle, but... You can make it happen. You can make it happen. It's going to be an uncomfortable 10.30 to 8 a.m., but...

Commit, you know? Her hands were over her head from 10.30 to 8 a.m. I mean, but you're laying down, too, so you're kind of just... Whatever, right? No. If you like this laying down, she's probably like... She probably heard them niggas come in the store and was like... Assume position? Right. So, I think she should have committed to having her hands behind her back. Like...

Leave some questions. Another thing I would have did, I would have destroyed the fucking crime scene. What fingerprints? Everything's just smeared everywhere. Like, you, again, you have to commit. You can't give Jaina this brutal ass beating and not be willing to mark yourself up. I want to see slashes to the face like somebody didn't give a fuck about you. That's what I'm saying. Like, they, her gash of the head needed stitches, but the rest of them were so superficial. Everything was superficial. But, like,

Also, you're like hurting yourself. Like it's not somebody else doing it to you. Equal. Beat her ass like that. Beat your ass like that. Y'all got attacked, right? You better commit to the story you told. Or else you didn't have to do that much. But it was because it was falling apart. It was falling apart bad. If she hadn't did that much in the first place, if she would have just if she could have just got one good knock or even if it was just a scuffle.

And then still just hit her with one item, maybe twice. If that thing hit her twice in the head, probably she'd have been out because it really only took one, right? So if she would have hurry up and did the attack and then maybe...

She could have got away with doing some light stuff. But it was the fact that Jaina was so brutal and hers was like, you got off easy. Like, if you got attacked, you got off easy. She went to the hospital and the next day she was discharged. Right. And Jaina did not make it to the hospital. Like, it's insane. With over 300 cuts. How many times did you cut yourself? And like, damn, the girl didn't do nothing but to you. Shit.

I am doing my job. If I did, you would not have caught them leggings in my bag, okay? Like, I have a shirt. She was wearing a jacket. You could have put the leggings on all of your pants. You know it's a bad check at the end of the night. Everybody knows that. It's not like they didn't tell you. It's not like you ain't been working there. It's the same thing every night. And you're going to say, ooh, uh, like they're not going to check into it. If you're going to do it, be smart.

She should know better, honestly. You been lying and stealing for that long? And you still not good at it? Shame. Give it up. Once you realize that Jana already told, there's really nothing else you can do. An attack makes you look even worse, even if she did survive. She was going to say something, but you took it as far as murder, as if that was going to solve or make anything better. You were caught. They were going to fire you.

maybe you don't put them as a reference for Equinox. Right. You already got your second interview, though. You know what I mean? Move on. Like, do you care that... I think her thing was shame, for real, for real. Like, because if you got caught stealing, all right, I'm out this bitch. I didn't do it, but if I did, I would have taken Jaina's car and ran to the police.

Uh-huh. With those superficial wounds. I got away. I got away. It was crazy. She's still back there. I think she should have broke a bone. Oh my gosh. She should have broke a bone. She needed to sell it, man. She needed to just get it over with because who's breaking their bone? You know what I mean? I'm not. You know?

No, I think I would have ran away and ran to the police. I think that would have been my brutal attack. I would have ran. I would have taken her car and ran to the police. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You got to get to the limousine. I don't even hardly know how to drive this car. You don't get to do two totally different scale attacks and call it the same night. It just. All right. Parole or no parole? Parole.

It's a no for me, girl. And I know people, I know somebody that is under the opinion that, like, possibly after you do your 25 years, but I'm going to have to go say no for that. And you can call it the southerner, the southerner in me, because, you know. Yeah, you're harsh. I, um, listen, she's been in there, what, 11 years? She's like 40 now. So she'll be how old? 50, 54? Sure. Yeah. So, I don't know.

I'd like to hear what she's got going on. I think she'd have work to do. I think she'd have to do outreach with the family.

I think she'd have to show some improvement and change. And we've seen that it's possible to do that from the inside. But you have to be willing to do that. And I think that she's got too much like, I feel like she's kind of like the Antoinette Frank case. She's like a narcissist. Yeah. And the people who really changed their life don't focus on the appeals. They just focus on moving forward. And it's the ones who keep trying to get that appeal, even though they know that it was dead wrong, which kind of makes us look at like, are you even sorry?

Like, work on you first and then come ask us some things. Right. Don't say, oh, this was a mistrial. Say, I've changed my life in this way and this is why I deserve an appeal. Mm-hmm. Because we know you did it. All right. You ready for some reviews? It's time for some reviews. Leave us a review. Hopefully it's five stars. Or if you have a problem with us, just email us. Like, it's okay. Our feelings are tough. But our ratings are sensitive. So...

Tell a friend if you love us. Don't tell anyone at all. Don't even mention our names if you hate us. This one says, love it. Keep it coming. Love it.

This one says, love it here. I absolutely love this podcast. I watch Snap, Forbidden Files, Fatal Attraction, etc. So some of these cases sound familiar. But just listening to the way you ladies tell it makes me excited and has me talking to my phone. I listen when I'm working, driving, and cleaning up. With you always, girl. Helping you get through today. Thank you so much for your reviews, guys.

Okay, this is the end of the show for real. If you would like to purchase ad space or if you want to give us some recommendations for episodes or if you just want to say hey or if you want to give us recommendations on how to be better or if you have woes with us, whatever you want, you can email us at sisterswhokillpodcasts at gmail.com.

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Talk to us when we talk back. Bye. Sometimes I just want to be like, no.