Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. A trigger warning for this episode, it does have to do with murder, but also a trigger warning for sexual abuse to minors by minors. The justice system. Tazzy, do we trust it? Never. And I sometimes think that when you don't trust something or someone, you should... Take that shit to trial! ♪♪
Our players this week are Hassan Abbas, our victim, and Kavonna Flanoy, our murderess. Kavonna Flanoy was born on May 1st, 1991 in Kansas City, Kansas to her mom, Stacey Lewis. If she had to describe her own life growing up, she said that it was middle class. She didn't really have to want for anything. Life was pretty good. Her mom was a minister and her mom described
would describe Kavanaugh as a unique child. She sang in the choir. She danced. She could dance circles around anybody. And she just was one of those kids that was just special and you knew it. Her dad isn't mentioned in any of the things that we saw, but we did hear a jailhouse interview where she mentions her dad for the first and like only time that we've heard about him. And she says that dad was an alcoholic. I'm not sure if mom and dad were actually like together.
But she says that dad was an alcoholic. Now, growing up for Kavanaugh started off pretty well. But then when she hit middle school, she started to experience a series of unfortunate events. Like, that is really the only way that you can describe it. Like, one thing after another happened. So when she was in sixth grade, when she was 12 years old, she was sexually assaulted by a boy. Now, the boy was from around the neighborhood. And they were friends. You know, sixth grade, you hang out with everybody. And he...
pushes her down climbs on top of her she's like wait what are you doing and he pulls up her shirt and starts like messing with her boobs sucking on her breasts but she's in sixth grade she's 12 years old and you know that's when you're starting to figure out what your body is doing by yourself and for your little nasty ass to also decide that you're gonna figure out what my body does at the same time that's not fair to me
She tells somebody about it and it doesn't seem like anything really happens. The kid gets reprimanded. Now, when she hits seventh grade, she's then raped by a boy in her neighborhood. And this was traumatizing to her that it couldn't get any worse. The next week, I guess this boy went to go talk to his little friends. The next week, one of the other boys that was friends with the first boy comes and rapes her again, this time in the woods.
And then the next week, a third boy from that little friend group attacks her and rapes her. And now she does tell her mom about this and they file police reports. Her mom is having her back, wants these boys to be prosecuted.
And for Kavanaugh, this is a whirlwind experience that could have ever happened to her. And she wants something bad to happen to these boys. They need to suffer the consequences of their actions. But what they got were kind of slaps on the wrist. Now, these kids were also minors. So when they stood in front of the judge pleading for their lives, most of them, they got expelled from school. One boy, he had to leave town. But the most they got was probation for a year.
Plus the one kid getting expelled. And so for Kavonna, it's like a slap in the face. And I'm sure for her mom, too. I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, trying to protect my baby. And it feels like we got nothing.
It's always society doing so much to protect the boys and their future because they're young and don't know any better. But what does that mean for the girls? Right. Exactly. How did it affect the girls' future? Like, you're so worried about how they'll be viewed in society, but like, how's she supposed to live with herself? You
You know? Right. There's more of an internal struggle. And the court does give her therapists. They do give her therapists to talk to, but you know how that goes. She never got to stick with one therapist. It was a revolving door of mental health professionals. And she honestly felt like I was telling them my problem and they were not giving me real solutions. And you know when you go to therapy and they say it's going to take time to find the right therapist. And I don't know that...
a 13 year old has that much willpower to just keep going through before they say this shit just doesn't work. You know what I mean? And also if it's court mandated and you're just getting the therapist that the system gave you because you can't afford to go from therapist to therapist, you just kind of get what you get. And then once you start putting on limitations like, oh, I want a black woman, then it gets even smaller. Oh, yeah. Well,
What seemed like the only solution that people came up with was to put her on medication. Now, I don't know for sure what medicine that they put her on. She was a minor at this time. So, you know, some information is private. She said that those medications just made her sleepy. And I've seen that. Like, I know some friends or some people that I was around that started taking antidepressants as a teenager. And their mood totally changed. They were just tired.
I remember one time I went up to this girl and I said, what is wrong with you? What's going on with you? Because she was like laying. It was at summer camp. And she was just laying on the ground with her arms crisscrossing head down. And I was like, what's going on? And she was like, nothing. It's my new antidepressant. And I was like, OK. Deep. Yeah.
But also, like, it didn't look like an antidepressant. I was also, like, in middle school at the time talking to this girl. But, like, I remember thinking to myself, like, she's telling me she's on antidepressants. She looks sad right now.
Sadder than she did last week, you know? Yeah. And so what do you do as a teenager that you don't want to take the medicine because it makes you sadder or sleepy? You don't have anybody to really talk to. Or numb, which is almost worse than sad. Right. And so eventually she starts smoking weed. She starts to drink and...
I heard her say in that jailhouse interview that her first drink and like her first puff of weed, it actually came from a family member. Those were her vices of choice. At this point, she's never felt protected. She's like, I don't have no daddy for real. All the men, the boys, the males that I've ever encountered, they have hurt me. No one tried to protect me. And I know that like men are supposed to protect. So maybe if I could find me a good man that wanted to protect me, my life would be a little bit easier.
At that point, girl, I would have got a good stud. Yeah, you would have. So she's kind of living her life, trying to figure out what she's going to do with herself. And here she is. She's 16 years old and she finds out that she is pregnant and she is about to have a little boy. This is a turning point for her. Like, I have a son now. I want to make sure that he is protected at all times.
She's also kind of relieved. She said that she was relieved because she was like, I have a boy. Finally, I'm going to have some male that's going to love me unconditionally. After she had her son, she got herself a new boyfriend. Don't know this man's name, but she got herself a new boyfriend. This boyfriend also liked to smoke weed and liked to drink. So they would do it together. And when they did that,
He had a mean streak on him and he became very abusive to Kavanaugh. It usually was when he was smoking. They would drink together. He would knock her out. One time he hit her so hard, she blacked out. She had to go to the hospital. And when she goes to the hospital,
They ask her, do you want to press any charges? And she says no. Later, they ask her why she didn't press charges. And she was like, I've seen what pressing charges does. It works everybody up. It's very expensive and no one gets any justice. So she is looking for love in all of the wrong places. One time she finds out that she has a date with this guy and she's excited. And the guy picks her up. And instead of going on a date, he's like, oh, come back to my crib.
Oh, I'm a photographer. You should let me take some pictures of you. Oh, yeah. Why don't you put this lingerie and let me take pictures of you? It already sounds sketchy. No, no, you can't go. Don't go nowhere. Predatory pickup lines. Right? I'm a photographer. It's what I do. Let me take these pictures of you. And then, after that, he forces her to perform oral sex on him. Now, here's a formal warning. The story and the court documents...
on this case are very different. She tells her story on plenty of other platforms, the court documents, you can Google them. So Taz and I will try to go back and forth throughout the timeline to give you both sides of the story throughout the time, okay? So y'all just be ready, okay? Thank you. Now that we're all here. She was really upset about all these attacks that she constantly had to endure. And so she was talking to her cousin about it. And her cousin said,
you know, that's really crazy. You really need to figure out how to protect yourself. I actually know somebody that's selling a gun and I think he's selling it for $100. You probably should get that so that you can protect yourself. And she was like, yeah, yeah, that's a really good idea. Two sides of the story. This gun, she either bought it from the cousin's friend because she needed to protect herself from all the attacks that were happening and she had the gun for about a week and a half until the story starts or...
She purchased the gun right around the time that she met Hassan A. Abbas. Hassan Abbas was born February 13, 1979. We don't have a lot of information about his background, but we do know that he was Sudanese Arab, which is the largest ethnic group in Sudan. They're mainly Muslims, and he did identify as a follower of Islam, and his native tongue was Arabic. He's 32 years old. He's working at this liquor store.
All the guys, they're cool who work here. Like, he gets along with his co-workers. He even has a roommate who works there at the store with him. So it's a pretty chill environment. One day, Kavana walks in and she's, you know, feeling down, a little depressed. She's ready to drown herself in some weed and some alcohol. She's only 19 years old, so she's not depressed.
legally able to buy liquor but she's about to see if she can finesse it real quick she goes to the liquor store that is down the street from where she stays so this is the first part of the story where Kavanaugh's and other people's stories start to differ right
So Kavana goes up to this guy on the counter. She hands him whatever alcohol she picked out. The guy working the counter, his name is Hani. He's like, I can tell this idea is fake. Like, you're not going to pass me. And she's like, you're going to fuck with me? He's like, nah. But I tell you what, though. My friend Hassan over there, he'll buy it for you.
But you might have to go out on a date with him or something. And she was like, eh. It was like, you want it or not? She's like, yeah. So makes the introduction with Hassan. Hassan gets the liquor, gives it to Kavanaugh, and they make plans. And this is where the story starts to split between Kavanaugh's side and other people's side, right? So Kavanaugh says this all happened on Tuesday, March 9, 2010. Hani says that this happened a week prior.
Right. So take this how you will. See, Hani is saying that Kavanaugh and Hassan ended up meeting at their shared place because remember Hani and Hassan are roommates. So Hani was like Kavanaugh and Hassan met up at their spot on Friday before Tuesday, March 9th. He says they got to the house. They drank. They smoked some weed.
She's 19. She looks 19 years old. He's 32. It's just weird. It's an icky situation. Right. You know, it's March. So you know what time of year that is? Tax refund time. So he was like, yeah, I'm about to get $2,400 back on my taxes. That's what everybody love to talk about. How much money I'm going to get back on my taxes. How much money they get back.
One of my homegirls was like, it's okay. She was crying the blues a couple months ago. She was like, it's okay, my refund check hit. I said, I know that's right. Listen, I don't know that's right. I'm just hoping I don't owe. And if I owe, please don't let me owe nothing crazy. So yeah, he said that like, oh, about to hit on this $2,400. It's going to be up. You know, you're already planning on blowing it whatever stupid way you want to. And he said, you know what?
I might even take you out. Talking to Kavanaugh. According to Hani, they continue to hang out that Friday evening. She spends the night until Saturday. And she goes home and she doesn't see him again until Tuesday, March 9th. Now, another split in the story is about this gun that Mariah mentioned that she bought. Now, she said she's had the gun a week and a half or like...
you know, at least four days before she met up with Hassan. But also she's saying that she only met up with Hassan on March 9th, right? But if you think about it, four days before, if she did buy the gun four days before March 9th, which is when she claimed she met Hassan, four days before that is also the Friday where Hani says that she did hang out with Hassan and found out that he was getting $2,400 back on her tax refunds.
We're officially at March 9th. This day, she either met him for the first time, according to her, or she had just met him prior and found out about this refund. So the day of their date, Kavanaugh drops her son off at her mama's house. And she's like, I'm going out on this date. We're going to go to Corral. I don't know if she told her mom, like, I'm going to be with this dude that I was with Friday night to Saturday morning. But either way, her mom was like,
I don't know, baby. The Holy Spirit is telling me that you shouldn't go. And she's like, mama, what? She's like, I'm just telling you something bad is going to happen tonight. Like, I feel like you should just stay here with me and the baby. No, mama, everything is going to be fine. Like, I'm going to go. I'm going to be right back. I'm going to have a good night. I'll see you soon. And her mama's like, okay, if you say so. I got the baby. And Hasan pulls up in front of Kavana's house.
Kavanaugh gets in the car. They talk about going to Golden Corral. So she's, you know, probably feeling excited. And then he's driving and he's driving for a while. She realizes like, hold on, Golden Corral is not in this direction. And then she she's starting to realize like, oh, we're not in Kansas anymore. We have crossed state lines and we're in Missouri. She's like, where are we going? And he was like, oh, yeah.
I just got off of work. You know, I work at the liquor store right by your house. I just finished hauling boxes all day. I just need to go to my house and take a shower real quick. And then we can go to go to Corral. I understand that his house was like 30 minutes away or whatever. But once you have taken me across state lines on my first time, even second time interacting with you and you didn't clear across the state lines with me ahead of time. I'm feeling I'm just saying.
You know? I'm just saying. Don't detour me across state lines. I don't care if state lines is right. Don't do that. I don't know you. But Kavon's like, you know, it makes sense, right? Like, maybe he was so excited to see me. And...
He needs to really take a shower because don't nobody want to be dirty while they eat. Like, I get it. You just get enough work. I work too. She's trying to rationalize it in her mind. And so they go to his house and his house is in Platt County, Missouri. Now, allegedly, Platt County, Missouri is like Gwinnett County. You don't want to get in no trouble there. That's exactly what I thought. I was like, oh, so you're Gwinnett.
Like, everybody know where you're not supposed to get in trouble. And they go inside. He's like, I'm about to take a shower real quick here. You want a drink? I got some Hennessy. She's like, of course. He's like, great. You want some to smoke? She's like, yeah. He's like, great. I got some PCP. You should smoke that. She's like, oh, I've never tried PCP before, but sure.
Now, for those of you that do not know, PCP is a street drug also known as angel dust and PCP can fuck you up. Here are some fun facts that I found using the World Wide Wikipedia. PCP is a dissociative anesthetic mainly used recreationally for its significant mind-altering effects. PCP may cause hallucinations, distorted perceptions of sound and violent behavior.
Symptoms are summarized by the mnemonic device RED-DANES. Say it with me, class. RED-DANES. That stands for rage, erythema, dilated pupils, delusions, amnesia, nostalgus, excitation, and skin dryness. That make you ashy too. Can you be serious?
You know, in PCP, you remember in high school when people were smoking like synthetic weed? Yeah. I thought the Lord was coming to get me once. Did you smoke synthetic weed? Twice. Oh, Lord. One time they thought they lost me. Oh, Lord. It was me. It was me, redacted number one. Yes, and I said, I know who you was with, too, before you even started the story. Redacted number one's cousin. Anyways, they thought they lost me that one time.
And I was just laid out on the hood of a truck. And I remember them being like, oh, my God, shine some light in her eye. And I could hear them, but I just couldn't respond to them. Idiots. Shine some light in her eye. And what are you checking for? Idiot. Idiot. Listen, they were scared. I was stuck and scared, too. I just couldn't move and express it. Don't do drugs. Don't do drugs.
Don't do anything synthetic. How about that? Natural. Natural is the way to go. Right. At least I was with people that I trust. I'm not going to do no new drug with somebody that I've only hung out with once or twice. Like a stranger? Please. I don't even know if you're nice enough to take care of me. What if I have a full breakdown? What if I start crying? Hello? What are you going to do if I start crying? Okay. So they're smoking on PCP. First time ever.
Hassan gets in the shower. She takes off her black and white Chuck Taylors. She's chilling while Hassan's in the shower. He gets out the shower and he comes out fully naked. Dick up, condom on. She's like, Hassan, boy get dressed. We not gonna make it to the go to cry like this. And he's like, uh-uh, you still owe me for the liquor. And she's like, hmm? He said, yeah, and the PCP.
Ain't nothing in this life free. So he was like, he straight up told her. You either gonna have to suck or you gonna have to fuck. She was like, I don't suck dick. And he was like. I guess you gonna fuck. Cause she was like, no nigga, I just met you. And he was like. So I'm gonna have to give. And she's like, oh Lord, please don't make me do this. I have a son at home. Just, just take me back to my son. Now this girl's 4'11". I think she described her son to be 6'7", about 200 pounds.
can't find a picture of this man can't confirm but apparently this was a big nigga Hassan laid down on the bed and like basically laying down getting ready to see what she gonna give him or whatever and she's like she tried to turn away from him but he grabbed her the room is dark and she kind of was like well let me act like I'm gonna go along with it so I can make my escape
So she kind of plays like she's getting along with it. She kind of steps up to him and she's like, okay. But instead reaches in her purse, grabs her gun and ends up pointing it directly at him. Shoot him in the chest. First shot. That man will stay down. He gets up and he starts coming after her. She shoots again. She's running out the house.
firing the gun as she runs. Another shot hits him in the face and another in his side. One shot misses, hits the back wall. All this time, he's still coming after her. He ends up making it from the bedroom to the front door before he collapses. According to Kavanaugh, she was
trying to shut the door to try and stop him from following him. So she's like, she's just trying to get a couple of shots off as the door is closing. Doorknob in one hand, gun in the other. She's like, I don't know if any of the shots hit Hassan. I'm just running and going. Now, according to her, she says that she's screaming the whole time, please, please just leave me alone. Hassan gets the door open. She picks up her bag.
his car keys and runs to the car. And when I say she darted the hell up out of there, she don't even have no shoes on her feet.
now his car is the way she got there so that's the way she was planning on leaving too so she did end up grabbing his keys on the way out she's driving she ends up realizing she's about to run out of gas so she pulls up to a gas station and realizes that he left his wallet and phone in the car so she uses his gas card to put gas in the tank because she's supposed to be going on a date she wasn't supposed to be paying for nothing anyway so she's
Probably ain't got no money. So she's out in his 1995 Honda Accord with a Missouri's license plate, CA1S4F. Now she gets gas in the car, she gets back in the car, and she just starts driving. She's panicking and she's driving. She leaves and Hassan's roommate comes home. And when he walks in, clearly there's blood everywhere. He sees Hassan laying on the ground, unresponsive, and...
Then his roommate, Hani, decides, I got to call 911. He calls 911. I need you to get to my place right now. Hurry, my roommate, he's dying. He's dying. Please make sure that he's there. And so police are then dispatched to 4911 Northwest Gateway Drive, apartment 23 in Platt County, Missouri at 723 p.m. Imagine listening to a podcast and you hear your own address pop up. Not the mail that comes to this house. No, why was I actually looking at something on the news?
In Tennessee, some man shot the deputy, and he was on the run. And they said they found him on something, something, something, Linden Avenue. I said, not Linden Avenue. That was my address in Tennessee. I was like, oh, boy. So I started watching the tape, and I was like, what side of the street he on? Can I see my house from here, my old house from here?
Now, when the police and the EMS show up, they give immediate care to Hassan and they actually find a very faint pulse. So then Hassan is rushed to North Kansas City Hospital. He was pronounced dead later at the hospital. Police, of course, are talking to Hassan's roommate, Hany, and they're like, can you tell us anything? What was he supposed to be doing? Does he have any enemies? And Hany is like, well, he was supposed to be hanging out with this girl. And he describes Kavanaugh.
And the police are like, great, that's a good lead. If he's supposed to be with her, where is she? Let's try and find her because we have questions. Now, Kavanaugh was clearly long gone at this point because like Tazzy said, she got in that car and she started driving and she basically just kept driving straight until she found something that looked familiar.
And then she realized that she was low on gas. It was like, oh crap, need to get some gas. She pulls him into a gas station, tries to use his credit card to get some gas. And she's like, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? Oh shoot, my cousin live around here. So she pulls up to her cousin's house and she's like, yo, cause something crazy just happened. And she tells her cousin everything. Obviously her first mind is not to call the police. And if you ask her,
The answer is what you expect. What happens when you call the police? Nothing. I feel like she said her cousins were also on PCP. She did say that, but this was supposed to be her first time ever having PCP. And maybe that's why she was more willing to try it because her cousins did it. And I feel like she kind of meant that her cousins had done PCP before. Because when she went there, her cousins were like, you telling us you smoke PCP? You must just be tripping. Right.
Like, you probably just having a bad trip. We know how this goes. Now, at one point, Kavanaugh had a Honda of her own. And so she decided to take off Hassan's license plate and put on her own license plate that belonged to her old car. Just letting y'all know that never works. Back at the crime scene, the detectives find the .40 caliber shell casings and bullet rounds in Hassan's bedroom.
Of course, they find blood on his bed, blood on the wall, on the floor. There's brain matter everywhere. And they also find a size seven shoe in his bedroom. And so the detectives are like, oh, the roommate was telling the truth. He must have been here with some girl that wears a size seven. Now, what they didn't see at the crime scene were bullet holes in the doors. Because remember, Kavana said in her story that she was shooting through the door.
They didn't see no bullet holes there. Now, of course, there was a bolo out for Hassan's car. And a few days later, on March 11th, 2010, Kavanaugh was spotted in Hassan's car. The police talked to her and they're like, hey. Well, she switched the plate. So obviously she thought that that was all she needed to do. The police then are like, hey, Kavanaugh.
We would love to have you come down to the station. We have a few questions for you. And at no point does she ask the police officers like, excuse me, what is this about? Why do you want to talk to me? She just cooperatively agrees to go down to the Riverside Department of Public Safety and talk to the officers. They Mirandize her. They had her sign a Miranda waiver and she just gets to chatting with the police.
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You know, she shares that she had been violated too. And this is really starting to feel like a safe space for Kavanaugh. Dexter's like, listen, I'm just going to give you a break. I'm just going to leave you here with this paper. And feel free to do whatever you want on this paper. If you feel more comfortable drawing or doodling, do that. Write a letter to yourself, your mom, God. Just...
Release what you've been feeling, okay? I'm just gonna give you a little break or whatever. So, Kavanaugh begins to write out a lot of things on this paper, including things like, that's when I told him, I don't suck no dick. Other things, said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And...
One part in particular that stood out to the police was a part where she said, quote, I pushed him down like I was about to fuck him. I got the gun and I just pulled the trigger. So for the police, this little trick that they pulled out worked. There's a written confession. She just said she pushed him down onto the bed and pulled the trigger. Now, she also, when she was talking to the detectives, admitted that she had just purchased a gun a few days before the murder.
and a few days before meeting Hassan. So the police at this point, they feel like we've got written confession, we've got all we need. Kavanaugh, no, you're under arrest. When she saw the judge for the first time, he gave her a bond for a quarter mil, $250,000. The state offered a plea deal of second degree murder instead of first degree if she was willing to plead guilty.
Kavanaugh told her lawyer that she wanted to claim self-defense because for her that's what she felt that it was. This man was about to try and force her into yet another sexual act that she did not want to do and she had this gun to protect herself and she decided to use it. But her lawyer said that if she didn't take the plea deal and gamble going to trial she could possibly be charged with first degree murder which would mean she'd have a life sentence.
They were like, listen, I can probably negotiate about 10 years for you and you'll be able to get out and see your son. Otherwise, you could think about doing your life in jail. And so to Kavonna, she was like, well, of course, I want to see my son. So, you know, I'll take the plea and just do the 10 years, you know. Why are those the two options? I hope that I get 10 years because you're going to I'm going to trust that you'll be able to negotiate down because that's not where we started. Or I have to go for the rest of my life, throw away the key.
And it's crazy because they literally give you no choice but to gamble. And it's like when you feel like the system's already stacked up against you, every time a child's going for the under, it's never supposed to be on your side. And they constantly encourage you to take the plea. We talked about that a couple of weeks ago. They're always going to encourage you to take the plea, even when it's not in your best interest. On that I Am A Killer, on that episode,
The appealant lady, she was saying that 97% of all the cases don't go to trial and in a plea deal. She was like, if we were to see that 97%, we would come to a halt. We don't even have the resources to send everybody to trial. It's all a game. It's all a cycle. It's all a ploy.
to fill up these prison systems because jail and prison is money. That's free labor. It's the only way to have a free, illegal slave in America is to send them to jail. It's all part of the plan. Y'all think it's not, y'all think it's broken and it's working exactly the way it's supposed to. And that's the problem. And that's why they teach the narrative that you're wasting everybody's time and you,
Right. And they try to subservient you into just take right and do what you deserve to do because you did the time. And they put you down for that. What does she deserve that nobody made sure she couldn't find me the resources when I was a teenager. Right. You couldn't find the resources. I was a teenager to find a consistent therapist for me. And now you don't want to find the resources anymore.
To take this case to trial where I could possibly win. But I don't know, girl. The thing that would make me take the plea? The roommate. The roommate is a tough story to go against. Yeah.
And his is directly against everything that you're saying. Yeah. Now, Kavanaugh's lawyer didn't fight to get any other type of plea deal. They were just like, you know, we're going to shoot for these 10 years and have our fingers crossed. Her mom thought that she should go to trial. She thought that would have been a better option because at least then she can lay out the facts and explain her side of the story. And the lawyer was like, listen, yeah, you got a sad upbringing. Yeah, yeah.
We can talk about it, but we don't want to gamble. I'd rather save that story for the sentencing time because at the end of the day, we all know that she did kill him. That's not what we're debating here. And I just don't know that we have enough facts to make them say it was self-defense. So we'll save, you know, her story for sentencing and hopefully she'll sympathize. And that's how we'll get it down to 10 years. But I don't think you're going to get any lower than that. And I don't think that's good counsel. Yeah.
Unless it is. Unless the good counsel is that we'll get it down there. Because I think that's the hard part about it is she doesn't necessarily have facts on her side. And I don't fully even think she was lying. But it's going to be very easy to make her look not credible because she is a teenage mother. Because...
She was high on PCP. PCP that he gave me, the grown man. Yeah, but as always, we could have dealt with him, you know, but instead you decided to break the law too. Now Kavanaugh's mother stood by her side, supporting her the whole time. She insisted that her daughter did not want to hurt Hassan, but because he was trying to make her do something sexually and she refused, she did what she had to. Kavanaugh ultimately ends up taking the plea.
And her sentencing hearing was set for January 21st, 2011. Wow. That was a day for me. What was January 21st, 2011? No, January 21st is my redacted's birthday. And 2011 is the year we threw him a birthday party. So that was the day. The first kiss. And we started. Oh, my goodness. Take me back.
Like when I saw it, I was like, hmm. Because, you know, when you see these dates, you always wonder where you were at that point in time. And I was like, oh, you know exactly where you were. So Judge Owens Lee Holt Jr. presided over the case. And the way this plea was set up was how much time Kavon was going to receive was completely up to the judge. Of course, when you do a plea, they read you all the charges that they're putting you up against. Do you understand this plea? Do you understand?
that once you say this plea, if you don't like the outcome of the plea, you cannot take the plea back. Do you understand that you are waiving rights to a trial by doing this plea? They're going to ask you all of this before they accept the plea. They're going to ask you, can you read? Can you write? Can you understand everything we're saying to you? What's your level of education? Okay, so you can comprehend? Good, cool, cool, cool. In doing all this and waiving all these rights in the plea, she no longer gets to claim that she acted in self-defense.
She says, yes, I understand. And I accept these conditions of the police. So at the sentencing hearing, prosecutor Eric Zahn told the court, quote, this defendant bought a gun the day after she met her victim. Three days later, she took that gun to his apartment, murdered him and stole his wallet and car. He said that the judge should dismiss
decide to give her life in prison because in his words, the defendant misled the victim into believing that she was going to have sex with him before she killed him. The prosecution was basically arguing, listen, this is premeditated murder. This wasn't a case of her being sad. This wasn't a case of her being attacked. It was the fact that she knew that he had a refund check coming and she wanted to make sure that she could secure that refund check
for her and her son. And yeah, she may look real sweet and innocent right here and she's got a baby face and she may be 19 years old, but the truth is she is a dangerous woman. Which like, chill on me. Dangerous woman! Now, Kavanaugh's defense attorney, this woman stood in front of the court and she said, quote, my client pled guilty and opted to forego presenting a self-defense claim to a jury because we have discussed
you know, the legal standards of self-defense. But she and I are asking this court to consider all of the circumstances and the totality of the circumstances, her state of mind in the mitigation of this crime. Those spaces are in there for a reason. Which like, girl, they were quoting her and I was like, she's not speaking with enough confidence for me.
How I said that, the, the, with the mitigation of, of this crime, she wasn't speaking with enough confidence to defend me. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're fighting for my life right now. I need you to stand on business. You know what I'm saying? I need you to stand on business. That's why you're here. Court appointed or not, this is why you're here.
But the defense attorney did have Dr. Marilyn Hutchinson come and take the stand. Now, Dr. Marilyn Hutchinson was hired by the defense to evaluate Kavanaugh.
And Dr. Hutchinson took the stand and talked about how she diagnosed Kavanaugh with major depression, recurrent and severe, generalized anxiety, PTSD, a personality disorder with traits of depressive, borderline, schizotypal, dependent, paranoid, and antisocial disorders that could dissipate over time. Dr. Hutchinson also talked about
Kavanaugh's upbringing. She talked about the multiple times that Kavanaugh has felt used and was abused by men in her life and how that would affect her state of mind.
The doctor said that at the time, Kavanaugh's mind wasn't there, you know, wasn't in his room at that time. Her mind was having flashbacks. And what she did was emotional reactivity for all of the previous rapes that happened. She felt backed into a corner in that flashback.
feeling was too familiar. And from that, she determined that this time she was going to protect herself. Now, the doctor also said that the second degree murder plea just didn't make sense for the type of crime that this was, right? It wasn't premeditated. It wasn't like she meant to kill him, but she felt attacked. She just got this gun. So for once, she felt empowered enough to protect herself. And it wasn't just him. It was every other person that
had gotten away with hurting her. Her attorney asked the judge for 10 years on the second-degree murder charge or, alternatively, for five years probation on the second-degree murder charge and for three years incarceration for the armed criminal action charge. So the judge takes all this in, lays out the facts of the case, goes to his chamber, and makes a decision.
The judge comes back and he sentences Kavanaugh to 25 years for second-degree murder, 20 years in prison for armed criminal action, and five years in prison for tampering with a motor vehicle and stealing. For real? And he could have did that consecutively or concurrently, which one is to be honest. And she must serve 85% of her sentence before she's eligible for parole, which would be 2031. She'd be almost 40 years old. There's not a good bit of time left.
Some of these people would be like, oh, they about to get out. She got some time left. Upon hearing the verdict, Kavanaugh, of course, began to cry and just lose it a little bit. The prosecutor, Zod, said, quote, there is no doubt this young woman has had a tumultuous childhood, but that cannot excuse the act of cold-blooded murder. Three years later, Kavanaugh filed an appeal citing improper counsel and representation at the time of her trial.
She blames her counsel for not properly fighting for her, especially because, according to Canava, she wasn't fully aware that pleading guilty to second-degree murder would mean she wouldn't be able to claim self-defense in any way. Her appeal was denied, and the court said she received appropriate legal representation at her original trial. In June of 2020, a Change.org petition was started in Canava's behalf by London Eubanks.
She started the petition after seeing her story on Netflix's I Am A Killer. It's so hard to withdraw a plea. It is. It is so hard. She does currently serve her sentence at the Chillicothe Correctional Center in Livingston, Missouri. And that is the story of Kavanaugh Flannoy. ♪
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rocketmoney.com slash sisters. All right, y'all, it's time for... Well, I'm not black. I'm OG. I didn't do it, but if I did, this is how I would have got away with it. I ain't do it, but if I did, I ain't never touch no PCP. Yeah, don't smoke nothing in your weed but weed. Take it from me, friends. Like, just smoke the weed. Just leave it there. Speaking of which, I would have...
went to trial, and I would have turned myself into an anti-drug advocate and be like a symbol for the anti-drug people and really play on the public's heartstrings to try and influence the judge's decision, to influence the wheels of the law. I think I might have acted like I was going to go in trial so then they could set a trial date and really try and gather the evidence, you know.
to really plead, build on this. I think, I don't think she had enough time to present a strong enough case that would even have brought her down to second degree. But I think had they got, you know, this testimony and stuff and then right before the trial maybe tried to renegotiate another deal,
But I feel like do the resources and then check back with it. You can come back and plead guilty. You just can't come back and plead innocent. But then also, that's also playing on a chance. Like, you can't come back and plead guilty if the state no longer wants to offer you a deal. Right. So you would definitely have to have enough evidence to where they still want to offer you a deal. It's a gamble, any way you put it. I ain't do it, but if I did...
My first time handling a gun or shooting a gun wouldn't be at a human. I feel like my first time like, oh, great, cousin, your friend has a gun that I can buy for $100. Amazing. I've got a legal, she should have some legal ID that says that she's 19. She just used a fake one to say she was 21.
Let's go to the gun range real quick so I know how to use it. She said in there, she was like, I don't know. I thought it was like the movies. Like, I shot him and he kept running. Some people survive shot wounds. You have to be a good shot. Don't use guns if you don't know how to use them. Yeah. I ain't doing it, but if I did, I'm not switching the tags on his car. Like, ditch the car, girl. Let it go. Yeah, that was very young thinking. You very much tied it right back up to you. And...
Again, you've lost the story. You could totally have had a point, but now you've done other things that cloud your side of the story. So now it's like, I don't know, were you trying to do something more? Because you did something more. You did a little too much. And now our brain is starting to spin. I ain't do it, but if I did, if I got in the car and he was driving, talking, driving, and I say, oh, we're not in Kansas anymore. Toto, where are we? And you tell me that you're going to your house to take a shower. I would have been like, you know what?
My mama told me. My mama told me that something was about to be off. Yeah. You could go ahead and take me home. I think that would have been my point right there. Like, and my mama said something. At first, I tried to ignore her, but we ain't going to Golden Corral immediately. And see, a bitch like me don't like to wait on her food. No, no, she does not.
You can take me home. I think that it's really hard and really discouraging for somebody to feel like the justice system is not working for them when something so horrible happened. Yeah. But I ain't do it. But if I did, I think I would have kept pressing charges like I would have kept doing it because at some point something would have at some point, at least even if it's the hope that some point something will work out. Like I would have pressed charges against the boyfriend that knocked me out.
I would have called police and said, this man tried to rape me right here. This is what happened.
Like, I would keep. I guess it's like, honestly, would you like from being in a point where you're at 12 years old, where everybody is telling you if you're in trouble, that's when they teach you if you're in trouble, you call the police, you tell your parents, parents to help you handle it. And to get no resolution to even be the one. She mentioned one situation where she called the police and they was like, actually, you got a ticket. So I'm gonna have to arrest you.
Like she said several times, justice ain't never worked for me. Like to call the police because somebody's assaulting you and you end up getting arrested over a traffic violation. And again, nothing happens to them. I don't know that somebody would keep calling because it's just like, what does it get me? But more trouble or just more hurt. And I think that's really it's really tough to learn as a.
as a teenager. But also, you're not dealing with the juvenile system anymore. And I don't think that she even fully realized that either. But also, there's a lot of times where even the adult system still doesn't work out in that way for you. I think the only thing with the juvenile system is her punishment was going to be harsher. But like, even still, I don't think that there was a safe place for her to turn to where she was mentally at. I think
The hardest, I think one of the saddest parts of listening is she says if she could do it all over again, she would have just fucked him and just dealt with the hurt. Like, she would have just let it happen, let the rape happen and dealt with the hurt. And I feel like that's a very sucky position to be in. Like...
Like, I wish I would have just let him do it. At least I wouldn't be spending 25 years in jail away from my son or in prison away from my son. Like, that's a terrible odds to be faced with. Right. Like, do this or do that. I knew it. But if I did. Hmm. I don't know. I feel like she should have got something in writing from that lawyer. Like the lawyer should have gone and negotiated another deal with the prosecution that looked more like 10 years ago.
before signing your life away. Or even like if she felt like she didn't have that confidence in her lawyer before going to trial, you get to a point where you can't turn back. So if you need a new lawyer, ask for it then. If y'all not feeling confident in your lawyer before trial, switch them. You can't look after the fact and be like, I knew he wasn't worth a damn. Like, no. Why are you somebody who's worth a damn? It's your life. It's your whole life.
I had a bad feeling about you all along. Don't bet your life on somebody who give you a bad feeling. Listen, find a good lawyer. Look, do you got a payment plan? What you need? You need somebody to mow your lawn? I need representation. Do what you got to do. You're going to be like, buddy, no matter how you play this, you doing some time. So when you going to get around to mowing my damn lawn? Yeah.
Listen, when I get out after my 10 years, and then if you go away for 25 years, my nigga, you ain't never getting your shit long mode. My back gonna be aching by the time I get out. Okay. Parole or no parole? I'll parole her. Yeah.
I would parole her as well. I was like, yeah, you've been through a lot, but that doesn't give you a right. But like, are you looking at what all she's, how, what all she's been through played a role on this very night? Like, I feel like you're treating them like two separate instances and it's all a buildup and a buildup and a buildup. So do you think that it was self-defense or murder? I think in her head, it felt like self-defense. I think in her head, high on PCP,
having suffered abuse after abuse after abuse, she was probably tripping a little bit and not in a good way. And she was probably feeling extremely heightened. So if this situation already made her uncomfortable and she's tweaking and probably hallucinating a little bit, everything probably seemed a little bit more scary than what it actually was. You know what I mean? Mentally and psychedelically, like,
I think everything was heightened. So I think in her head in that moment, it was self-defense. I think a sober person watching it would have been like, girl, you could have got out of there. You know, but that's not who we're dealing with. We're dealing with somebody with trauma, somebody who is high and drunk and still has a she's still a teenager. She's 19, but she's 19. You know? Yeah. That's what I would have done. Guilty by reason of drugs. Yeah.
And I would have become the biggest anti-drug advocate in the world. In the world. I'd never touch another drug again. I don't even take Tylenol. I feel like, I don't know why they thought that they could get 10. Like, let's be for real. I would have been shocked when you told me 10 and I feel lucky. And then you come back with 25 and I would be very shocked. I know where she's coming from. But like...
You thought she was going to get 10 for killing a man, stealing his car, switching the license plates. And see, I feel like she's not taking all of that into account. Like she's just focused on the murder, not realizing that you did a few other crimes in that. Cause she could have even like, but I also feel like her lawyer should have explained it to her a little bit better. Right. Cause I truly believe that she doesn't think she didn't think that she could really couldn't say self-defense. I think she thought she couldn't argue it in court, but like,
I'm sure that was pretty much part of her statement when she went up to tell the judge about her and they said, ah, ah, ah, you can't say you was trying to defend yourself. She was like, well, how do I explain where I'm coming from if I can't say I was trying to defend myself? And they was like, just say you fucking sorry. You know what I mean? And that's why they had the psychiatrist that they hired. And I think that was a good move on the defense's part. But it wasn't enough because, like you said, she didn't understand it fully. I didn't teach our kids the law.
Because when they're 18, it's too late to teach them. They don't get expulsion from school and you get to skip town. Like she should have had a lawyer with her from the jump, especially because she knew she killed him and she knew that she planned on saying that she killed him. Had she had a lawyer there from the jump, those details wouldn't have been released until something was kind of solidified. You know what I mean? Yep.
Because that's what they pinned her with was her own confession. That's what they kind of marked against her. So I think if she would have sat down with a lawyer and they would have came up with a game plan before she talked to the police, I think then she might have could have got to 10 years. But she should have been working with a lawyer from the jump. Even if y'all are innocent, even if you feel like you got a good case, work with a lawyer. All right. That's the end of the show. You guys made it. Congratulations. All right. Let's read some reviews.
Go home. Okay, this one. Oh, you can leave us a review. Please do. If you enjoy the show, five stars. Tell a friend, tell a friend, tell a friend. Share it. Post it. Be cute. If you don't like it, keep it to yourself. So this review says...
OMG, I randomly found this podcast one day scrolling and I'm so glad I did. I feel like I'm riding down the road with my homegirls getting some tea on the murderess. Instead of listening to music, I'm learning something, so thank you for that. I legit have everyone around me listening. My boss, who is a type A white lady, is now hooked. Keep it up, girls. Purple heart, purple heart.
Dang. Shout out to your white woman. I'm a 46-year-old woman who worked military intelligence for 20 years. I was laid off in 2023, and once I found your podcast, I was obsessed. Kind of mad I breezed through the episodes thinking I wouldn't catch up. I listened to all the pods, listened for more, because I've heard y'all warning. You can't blame us for y'all being so interesting.
I'm sharing flowers because you two deserve it. Keep doing what you beautiful ladies do. P.S. The random singing used to drive me mad in the beginning, but now I adore it. Little girl, that's the lesson. Yep, that's the lesson. Thanks, friends. Glad you're here. We have a live show if you want to see us. Live and in living color. You can do what you want to do. In living color.
Taz and I will be live in Living Color in Atlanta, Georgia, March 23rd at the Variety Playhouse. Got anything to say about it, friend? Yes, we will be there. Get your tickets. Don't disappoint me. We're going to have so much fun. If I can do it, you can too. It's going to be pretty packed out there from the looks of it. So I hope you guys make sure you grab a seat before you can't. That's right.
It'll be a hoot. We'll sing. We'll dance. No, we won't dance. We'll have a great time. Don't lie to me. You'll meet a murderess you've never met before. Hopefully. Yeah, very excited about the story. We're trying to put together a good show for you guys, so come on out. That's right. And no, you're not going to be able to pay to stream in to see the show. So if you can't see it, so sorry for you.
Shout out to the VIPs. Can't wait to meet y'all. That's all I got. Oh, follow us everywhere. Sisters Who Kill, Sisters Who Kill podcast.
You can email us, this is who kill podcast, gmail.com. You can go on Facebook. We have a public Facebook page. It's really cool. We have a private discussion group. That's really cool. We chit chat. There's a whole bunch of people in there, girl. You missing out if you ain't in there, but I understand if you don't like Facebook, that's fine. But you got to answer questions to get in to make sure that I know you. Cause if I don't, you don't get in. Anything else friend? Somebody said, it said, pick your favorite episode. And they said,
I said something like, no, it ain't my fault. She said none. It ain't my fault. You make them all so good. I'm about to choose. Period. But yeah, this will be our last. This should be our last episode on Tubi coming out. So if y'all didn't catch it, catch up. We have three episodes on Tubi. Love you to death.
Check those out. I haven't seen the second one yet, but somebody posted a picture and the shirt I was wearing looked cute. Yeah, I saw that. I didn't open it yet either, but I'm going to skim through it. See what outfit they got me in that time. Everybody was like, I love how y'all coordinated. We spent on two separate days and packed three outfits and didn't coordinate which outfit was going with what episode at all.
Taz told me that morning. She was like, I thought about it and I was like, we need three outfits. So make sure you bring three outfits. So I just, I said, that shirt is so wrinkled. I pulled out the back. Talk to you, sweet topic.