Deep Dive
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What's going on everybody? I'm Ra. And I'm Tess. And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. Love is a powerful thing, but cheating after having stood beside you and all your mess, that is something that this week's murderess was not standing for. 🎵
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Free money. Free money is out there. Just go get it by starting your podcast today. Streaming October 6th on Paramount+. First place I learned about death was the Pet Sematary. Dead things buried in that land would come back. There's something else. Something's wrong with Timmy. He needs time to adjust. That's not Timmy. Something's talking to him.
Sometimes, dead is better. Pet Cemetery Bloodlines. Rated R. Streaming only on Paramount+. Alrighty, let's go ahead and get into our players. This week we have Lee Morgan, who is a famous jazz musician. He's a trumpeteer. And Helen's common-law husband. And then we have Helen Morgan, this week's murderess. Helen was born in 1926 in rural Brunswick County in North Carolina.
Her family was from a farm near Cape Fear River, and she had to work the farm as farm kids do. She knew from an early age that farm life was not for her at all. When she was 13 years old, she had her first child, and by 14, she had her second. Who the father of her children are is a mystery, and many...
that both children were conceived out of coercion. She was not ready to really have children. She actually said she never wanted children. She never even had the chance to want children. She just, like, was pregnant. So she was like, I didn't raise my kids because I was a kid. So my grandma raised them, and at 15, I left because I didn't want to be there. And she went to Wilmington, North Carolina. When she was 17 years old, Helen met her first husband, and she married him after only knowing him a week.
I just want to emphasize that it was a week. Go ahead. Her husband was 39 years old, a bootlegger, and not much else is known about their relationship. But we do know that by the time she was 19, her husband died by a drowning.
this was probably very hard for her you know she's young she lost her husband and all of that stuff and that's that's like her only family that she fucking with at this point it's not she she's with her kids or at home with her mom so she goes her husband her late husband was from New York so she goes to New York to visit his family after the funeral and stuff and she was supposed to stay for two weeks and
I guess she just loved the city because she never came back. I mean, if I had the opportunity to go to New York and fall in love with the city and have the means to not come back, I
I probably would as well. I mean, especially because she didn't want the country life and New York is the complete opposite of country life. That's a whole lot of city. It is. It is a whole lot of city. It is. It's a whole, New York is a whole nother woman. Okay. So in New York, she found herself an apartment on 53rd street and she got a job like at an answering service where they do the pushing and the pulling of the cords, connecting your phone call from one to another. She was known at her job as being really nice and,
People loved her personality because she was a good talker. And people that are good talkers, they usually fit in in New York. She also was a great dresser, like stylish. She would wear these like lined suits that would get her a lot of attention. And she really looked good throughout the day. And at night, she would be out on the town and she frequented at the jazz nightclubs. That was kind of her scene. She was the type of person that didn't really want to work for anyone. But, you know, she had her job because she had to work.
Once she started being on the jazz scene, she realized that within jazz is a lot of drugs and she wasn't a drug user. So she kind of got in and she was kind of like a mule. She was transporting drugs from one state to another because...
because the drug dealers could trust her she wasn't going to use it because she wasn't an addict and she wasn't using it herself all of this time she was still immersed in the jazz nightlife and her spot on 53rd street was just like known as the spot for musicians and other artists to come after their sets and they would drink they would listen to records and she would be cooking for everybody like everybody was like look she knew how to cook if we were like oh we need a little snacky snack she was like it's so
can I get you something? Then she would start whipping up something crazy in the kitchen. So even though she was now a New Yorker, she was still a Southerner at heart. Like, you know, niggas down South, they gonna make sure you fit. They gonna make sure you got food on your stomach. Okay. Show up to nobody's house and I have a plate. Exactly. It's rude to come over to my house and you,
And I don't offer you some food. Right. Like, did you offer them something to eat? Somebody can come and be working on the refrigerator. Did you offer him something to drink? Did you see if he wanted anything? Because it's rude not to. No, nigga, he here to work. And if somebody comes to you and they ask for a snack and you only give them like a piece of bread, like, come on now.
So she was the type of person that was really known to be kind. And if you were hungry, she would help, especially musicians. Although she was kind to those around her, she was naturally street smart. And folks knew that she had a slick tongue and you could not play her like no fool. She was just the type that, you know, she wouldn't take no shit.
She had an interview and she was quoted saying, I'm not one of the nicest persons either. I would not sit here and tell you I was nice because I'm not. I was one who would cut you. I was sharp. Yeah, and I had to be. I had to be. I was sharp. And I looked out for me. And like when she say, I feel. When she be like, I'll cut you and I'll sharp. I feel like she mean more so with her mouth. You know what I mean? Like, I'll cut you with this tongue and I'll give you a lashing real quick on my words. Boy, try me. Right, like she wasn't the type of person you could just.
push over. I relate. That whole, I'm not the nicest person. You know, niggas love me, but I'm not going to describe myself as nice. I don't think, I think I'm a kind person. And I think there's a difference between nice and kind. What's the difference? Well, I think that kind more has to do with the heart. I have a good heart and I will give from my heart, but being nice to you because for no reason, especially if you don't deserve it. No. No.
I'll give you the shirt off my back and still let you go about your business. I don't know. I feel you. I feel you. One night, Helen's friend, Benny Green, he was a jazz player, knocked on her door. Helen goes to the door and standing behind him is once-famed musician Lee Morgan. He can hardly stand due to the New York winters. The first thing she asked him was, where is your coat? And he tells her he pawned it. He pawned his coat because at this moment, Lee Morgan was at rock bottom because of his addiction to heroin.
She's told that he's a trumpeter and she looks at him and says, well, where's your instrument? And he tells her he found that too.
She's like, you don't have an instrument? All right. And she goes and she marches him down to the pawn shop to buy back his trumpet and his coat. That's very nice of her. She said, it's too cold out here to be out here without a coat. Like, it's zero degrees and you out here shivering. Shivering. So, Lee Morgan was born, Edward Lee Morgan. He was born July 10th, 1983.
He was a famed trumpeteer and he was founded by Dizzy Gillespie and joined his big band when he was 18 years old. From there, his career started to pretty much skyrocket in the jazz musician world. Using drugs was already extremely common. So although he was known for being such a great musician. Was it in the jazz musician world or was it in the musician world? Well, it was in the musician world, but one of the bands that he was in, literally the head of the band was a functioning addict.
It was almost like a rite of passage for you to try drugs or try heroin or try whatever drugs they were doing at the time. And some people were able to do it all the time because some people can be functioning addicts. But Lee Morgan was the type of person that that drug really took a hold of him. And it was to the point where he was making money because he was gigging, but he was starting to not show up.
he was starting to lose the money faster than he was making it because you're always, with heroin, you're always chasing that high. That first high, you're always chasing it. So you're spending your money to get it. It was to the point where he showed up to a gig in slippers. And you know, this is jazz. You wear your hard bottom shoes. He showed up in slippers and everybody's like, where are your shoes? And he's like,
I had to pawn him so I could get some drugs. Come on, quit playing. These are fire slippers you done seen. Boy, I'm about to skate on crossfit stage. He looking at us. He looking at us like we wrong. Like we wrong for questioning him about wearing slippers on his feet. He trying to convince us to change into slippers too.
like no sir yo this man he pawned his shoes for drugs he's giving me heavy david ruffin vibes you know they was talking about he ain't making these gigs you know when david he was like i say tickets to my soul he was trying to he's trying to uh get tickets to the show away he was like these tickets for yesterday he said well i guess i ain't gonna be on that stage no i'm not
Yeah, that's what he's giving. Yeah, one time, one time he, when he was really down, he kind of OD'd and he fell on the radiator at his house and burned half of his scalp off. Like, there's pictures with him like a bandage around his head. You almost know. He said the reason he woke up
Was because he smelled burning flesh. That's the reason he woke up. And that was not his rock bottom. No, it wasn't. And that burning flesh was literally him. Him. His head. You'll notice that after the mid-60s...
the early early early to mid 60s he he started combing his hair different because of this burn spot on his head so really started to hit bottom and he actually was trying to get rehab he was trying to get a little bit of help but he wasn't very successful at it but one time that he was sober he was in a writing session and they were trying to come up with their next album their next big album and he kind of went away to the bathroom for a little while and everybody was like
Where the fuck is Lee? Because if Lee's gone for too long, that probably means that he's, you know, shooting up, doing something he ain't got no business. But Lee comes back after like a while in the bathroom and he wrote on toilet paper. So he goes to the restroom. He writes on toilet paper this song called The Swindler.
That ends up being the name of the album. And it's this really awesome jazz piece that you guys will put up somewhere for you guys to listen to. You said you guys will put up? We'll put it up. They'll put it up probably before we get to it because that usually is how that happens because I get tired. So...
Things started looking up for him, but once again, the heroin addiction was just getting to him. And so finally, it was to the point where he was selling his trumpet, so he couldn't make any more music. Not that he was getting any gigs, because he wasn't showing up for them. He wasn't showing up for the gigs. He was now sleeping outside of the theaters that he once was headlining. Oh, don't ever let me fall from grace that far, Lorde.
So this was around the time that he was found and sent to Helen's doorstep where she really saw him for who he was. Like,
He had metal in his mouth because he had his teeth knocked out earlier. And his metal in his mouth should have been taken out. But he never went to the appointment because, of course, that money is going to be spent on drugs. So she took him in. She got his coat. She got his horn back. I'm sure she gave him a really good hot meal. A good bath. Cleaned him up. I'm sure she gave him a really good bath. Like, she really took him in. And...
She then finds a drug rehab program for him to get into. And in the movie that's on Netflix, it's called I Call Him Morgan. She's like, I can never figure out anything that could make you in the dead of wintertime, zero weather, take off your coat and sell it. Because it's cold in New York. And I don't like the cold. I do not like the cold. I do not like. I love this season though because I'm wrapped up in sweatpants and hoodies.
And will be. And I'm so comfortable that way. And warm. And so comfortable that way. So she then gets him into a methadone clinic. So methadone is...
I'm just going to read it straight from drugs.com because that's the kind of clearest way if you don't know what it is. Methadone is an opioid medication. An opioid, it's sometimes called a narcotic. Methadone reduces withdrawal symptoms in people addicted to heroin and other narcotic drugs without causing the high...
associated with the drug addiction. Methadone is used as a pain reliever and as part of drug addiction detoxification and maintenance programs. It is available only from a certified pharmacy. Warnings! You should not use methadone if you have severe asthma or breathing problems or blockage in your stomach or intestines.
I just don't understand the treating drug addiction with more drugs. Like, it just doesn't make sense. Because that shit is so vicious trying to come off of that shit that you don't even have to. Fuck craving the heroin. You'll take the fucking shit just to make that pain stop. You are throwing up. You got the shakes. You're cold. You're hot. It is a myth. Like, imagine having the flu and all you got to do is hit up real quick and get it over with.
People be having a flirty, but like, I'm dying. I'm dying. Yeah, they do. But I mean, you, it's a part of that withdrawal symptom, but also like you remember, um, we kind of briefly touched about this on the Asada Shakur episode. Like there are other ways to,
of helping those symptoms like the black panther party created the acupuncture clinic for heroin addicted folk you know so there are more holistic ways so nobody want to put holistic medicine into play because because it doesn't make enough money for the government that's why right so he started to put the heroin down he's playing a trumpet again and helen was there to support him through it all you know anything he needed she was at every step of the way
And they ended up moving into their own apartment together on the Grand Concourse in the Bronx. Not only that, but, you know, their relationship kind of turned a little more than friends, you know? Got a little spicy. And the two became inseparable. Lee was doing much better. And people wanted to book him for shows again because he was that nigga, you know? Right.
You know, he was looking like he was getting on his way back. He's back to dressing better. My boy was swaggy. Listen, now he was swaggy before this, but you know that heroin made him get distracted. But like, he was back on his game. They was like, you know...
All we wanted to do in jazz is look good. We had that Ivy League style. We was fresh to death. You know what I'm saying? It was like about making sure that hair kept cut, making sure them shoes were shined. That's why when he pulled up with them slippers, they was like, sir. What the fuck is you doing? We ain't getting no one. It was about oppressing the ladies. Right. You know what I'm saying? You got to make them want you. And don't nobody want you in your busted slippers. Exactly. So...
The people that were eyeing him were surprised based off everything he had gone through and how he was able to turn his life around. You know, so from here, Helen starts managing his career and she completely ran the show. She handled the contracts, the bookings, making sure the entire band got paid. She was over all of that. Jerry Schultz, the owner of the club Slugs, said that Helen was his everything, his manager, his nurse, his old lady, his mama, and everything.
And then on Crimes of Passion podcast, she said that Helen even carried his trumpet case for him. Okay, you know, Tessie, you and I have played sports. Yeah, we've done that. And I know how your mom is, and I know how my mom is, but you know how our parents would never, ever, ever...
carry our bags for us i think like maybe if i was late and had to run on the field because you know i'm late to everything okay that's the only excuse um but you know how if you play like the white kids and their parents are carrying their soccer bags and their tennis bags or anybody with a dad maybe that's what we were missing um it's time to talk about our trauma
Um, no. Um, but it reminded me of that, like, you carrying this man's trumpet case? He can't, like, real... He can't carry his trumpet case? Okay, girl. You know, she wanted to cater to him, you know? It probably wasn't even a here, home, I think. It was like, I'ma do this for you. You done worked hard. And I'ma make you feel like you that nigga, you know? So...
During this time, she was kind of just like an overprotective parent, right? She was in love and everything that she did revolved around him. She was sitting in his rehearsals, you know, soundcheck, she there. You know, we booking gigs, she there. We playing the gigs, she there. She's everywhere. She's everywhere. Then you go home to her, like, they're living the same life at this point. I heard that she would not leave the house during the day to run errands. That she would wait for him to fall asleep for a nap, like...
Real codependent stuff. Maybe she felt like she couldn't leave him alone. Maybe she felt like she was keeping him sober. And you'd be like... I'm his sponsor. I have to do everything for him. Not even like a sponsor. I mean, maybe you don't. But people would be feeling so responsible for a person that...
it kind of takes over you. That's when they be like in real toxic relationships. And it's like, you're not doing, you're not in this relationship for you anymore. At this point, your whole purpose is to support this person and get them through. You might know a little bit about that. I'm so excited.
Actually, you might. And it's a hard place for the other person to be in. And they had such a big age difference between them. Like, Helen was 13 years older than Lee. So not only was he her lover, or they were lovers, you know, but she probably did feel like, I have to take care of him because that baby don't know nothing. Right. I know what I was like in this place. And, you know, I'm going to just...
knowing better and being older and why is it like let me just let me just show this boy I mean and she's also a woman I mean like I know just nurturing I'm in a couple of groups where like women are like they're like do any of y'all even
do any of y'all ever sit down and wonder how the fuck y'all's husband survived without us like what married women they're just like because i mean this man is an idiot how did he survive before he met me and i'm like that's just listening to stories i'd be like is your nigga stupid are you a dumb person like no it's just men are stupid men are not bright they're not
Even the brightest of them. They need. Because I can't. I can't do stupid. They need somebody else there. They're not even stupid. Just not bright. Hating podcasts. No.
be really having questions be like and when that didn't work then what I did have date I did date somebody that was just getting to the next step like common of god damn you could tell that they had never actually had to do something for themselves and that is it is hard to feel like you are the person that has to do everything for them because they can't my gosh I'm gonna have to raise both of us I see okay sure yeah no thank you
Oh, yeah. And then when you're codependent, like they were going everywhere together. And I know about this part in particular. Lee couldn't go anywhere without her. How lonely could that be? Like, you're not allowed to see your friends without her. You can't go to the club without her. You can't. Every time you come home, they were like, he never stayed out all night. Never. He went to his gigs. Helen was there. She took him home. Like, you lose those connections with your friends and things like that.
It gets lonely in a codependent relationship. Like, it does. I can't do that plus me shit. Like, if it's always going to be the two of you, I'll just pass and y'all can just have each other. You can hit me on another life or something. What are you talking about? You said everywhere they go. Where is it? Everywhere you want to go, they go. No. Yeah. This is actually a no plus one type of thing. Okay.
actually has been like you're not allowed to bring anybody else plenty of people be like and who are you bringing no one you are i am inviting you just you but yeah despite all of this shit things are still looking up for him right he's back to selling out clubs um she's keeping him in line keeping him clean you know that that career is back he's back common charts and everything
It's going good. Okay, so then he started to switch his style up a little bit, right? So he was initially known for hard bop, which is like soul and R&B infused jazz. But by the time the 1970s rolled around, he was playing a flugelhorn to give him like a richer sound. It's kind of larger than a trumpet. So I guess more sexier vibes. Yeah, it gives that deeper like sexy horn. Yeah, that kind of horn, you know, it gives a good horn.
Horns are hard, yo. So I learned that the secret to a good horn player is having a good tongue. I ain't never dated no horn player, but y'all let... I'm sure that somebody could let us know. I tried to join band in middle school, and that nigga signed me with the baritone.
I hated that shit. I thought it was disgusting. I didn't like dealing with the spit valve, especially off of a rented instrument. What is this? But it was hard, like getting your cheeks to blow up. My cheeks burned. I hate it. I hate it. Shout out to you horn players because it's for the birds. But, you know, despite all of this, there was still one thing pissing off Lee Morgan, and it was that jazz music was not getting the respect that it deserved.
black musicians were not booking the big venues for jazz and jazz is black music you know elvis is on tv booking out the biggest arenas and they are up there singing black music because in case y'all didn't know elvis presley stole his music from niggas i mean hound dog the list goes on all that is stolen all this shit when y'all be like oh rock and roll is white people music rock and roll was invented by black people again yes
Jazz invented by black people. We are music. What are you talking about? Literally, the drum is a heartbeat. Come on now. Come on now. We are music. Everywhere we go, you cannot take an instrument away from us. They will sit there and they will make their body the instrument, you know, beatboxing and shit. Like...
So he also noticed that the late night music shows weren't interviewing black musicians or having black musicians featured on their late night shows. So on August 27th, 1970, he and some other musicians crashed the stage of the Merv Griffin show. Merv was interviewing an actor from across the pond and he was like, oh, it's so hard to find jazz clubs in New York. It
It's so hot because there's not a lot of jazz musicians here in New York, you know? And A, that's a lie. And because that's a lie, whistles started blowing from the audience. They started blowing like whistles from the audience. And then all of these jazz musicians, Lee Morgan leading them out, went to the stage and started...
playing their music on stage, like, as a form of protest. Like, they bum-rush the stage. It's a live recording. The house band is trying to drown them out, but, of course, they can't because all of these musicians are literally having a big, huge jam session in the middle of the stage. While it is happening, Lee Morgan also runs to the back and talks to the producers and, you know, it's not just a protest. Like, we're here to actually plead our case and tell you what's up and tells them, like...
black music is so influential. He says that he talks, he talks to newspapers about how important jazz is to American history. And he says that it is the only true American music. You know, he, he also states that the government, especially in American government in the arts, they put a lot of money to preserve the classics, like even Beethoven Bach, what we would consider those classics that came from the East. Um,
came from the Englands and the Londons. The classics. I can't wait to hear our British listeners critique your accent. I actually just got a letter from somebody in London saying, can we do London cases? And I'm like, yes. And Mariah is going to do all their stories in a British accent. I will. He says, the government is putting money into the projects that could...
that are preserving classical music and the art of classical music, but the government isn't putting in that same type of money to preserve jazz and the art that is jazz. And jazz is classic music for black people. And which I believe is true. I'm going to go ahead and put a stamp on that statement. But that was something that... That jazz is for black people? That jazz is classic music for black people. I feel that, right? Classic music with a little... That's us! With a little vibe! Like, and so I'm just going to go ahead and...
say that that is the truth because we already know that it is when he said that i was like like duh right and the music on television is not reflecting the music in the streets it's not reflecting the music that people want to listen to it's not reflecting the music that is speaking to black people so that protest happens helen also gets involved in this uh movement as well and it kind of reminds me of the it kind of reminds me of the black theater movement especially after the pandemic and
a lot of black artists were like hey our stories are not being told like we're just tired of doing trauma porn we want to do pieces that are meaningful plays written by black playwrights um directors that are black when there's black so artists really fighting for their artistic integrity is really what it is within black art which we have been doing since the beginning of time like
Did you watch Different World? Yes. But did you see, okay, did you see the episode on the Mammy episode? Probably not. Okay. Did you listen to my podcast about the Mammy episode? I think so. Did you? Probably.
If it was early, I did. We're being honest. No, but on A Different World, they did a whole Mammy episode, and it was so good because everybody feels so torn about Mammy. You know what I mean? It's like, put her up, don't do it. I feel like it's split kind of how people are about nigga. Like, don't say nigga. That's what they use to define us, and it's like, no, we're taking it back. And it was split like that on the episode and going through the history of it, and it's definitely important. It's definitely what got us here, but it's like...
The fact that we have to go through these degrading roles in order to be able to play the roles or to see us on TV as how we really are.
as opposed to how you think we are. Yeah. And that's also because it's, that's why I love TV now. Like, you know, when you see a movie and you be like, oh, a white person wrote this for a black, and they really thought they were going in when they were, when they put that pen to paper. So like, how do we break from that? And we define ourselves by ourselves, you know? And I think that's, that's what Lee Morgan wanted for jazz music. And I think that's what a lot of, especially black artists want because it is our music, our story, our culture. There you go. But,
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rocketmoney.com slash sisters that's our story so lee and helen had been together for years at this point and even though they had never gotten officially married uh helen and lee kind of referred to helen as his wife as his common law wife it was kind of like all right we've been together forever in a day so we ain't saw no papers we ain't jumped no broom we ain't go to no courthouse but we
you're mine and I'm yours and I'm going by Mrs. Mrs. Lee Morgan like in the papers it says Mrs. Lee Morgan I was like you better put claims to him period okay
She was like, you know, I'm your wife and that's that. Now, Lee would be lying if he said that Helen was not the reason that his career was back on track to stardom that he was destined for. Like, she really put him right back on the track. But he was ready to kind of take his career back into his own hands. He was kind of ready to have that freedom from Helen. You know how you whip somebody for a season? And it's not a reason? No, there's always a reason for the season, okay?
There's always a reason for this. But you know how, like, and I think this is a hard part of a lot of relationships moving from one to another, especially when you're dating. Like, you learn stuff from people. Like, a lot of my relations that didn't work out, like, I still learned something. I learned something from everybody. Even if it's something small. Like, how to make spaghetti. Yeah. Girl, because that spaghetti recipe hits. Shout out to redacted number two. Yeah.
That recipe hits. But like... I'm telling you. You learn something. Like, even if it's something about yourself, something that you can take using for it. Like...
dating is fun and all, but I feel like each time that I connect with somebody new, I learn something new about myself because people treat you in different ways. But his life was back on track and Helen really helped him with that. But now he wanted to take control back of his life. Like he felt like he could finally stand on his own two feet and he wanted to do that. He didn't want to be up under Helen all the time and have her up under him. But honestly, that's...
in a healthy relationship that's what you would want is for you to get back to being you right yeah but when he got back to himself he didn't want her no more see this is where the problem comes in you see what i'm saying because how you gonna forget the niggas that got you there oh that's what i'm so he started just like leaving the house and not coming back i remember like we said his friends were like look he always went home helen made sure of it
So Helen calls around. It's like, where's Lee? Ain't seen him. He didn't come home. And then Lee calls his buddy back. He's like, yeah, I know Helen calling everybody. Adam found me a little shorty or whatever. And we got this connection. We bobbing like I ain't never bobbed. We got a thing going on. Do-do. Do-do. Do-do.
We both know that it's wrong. Anyways, so he finds... So he's got this little shorty on the side. And then he starts going out a little bit more often. So he really starts, you know...
Wearing less and going out more. Having a good time. Meeting new women. Flirting with women. And something that they mentioned in that I Am Morgan, it was... He never really got to experience his sexuality because he was in a band. Then he was addicted to drugs. The drugs kind of took over his life for a very long time. I feel like that in a band part was his time where he experienced his sexuality. And it goes for the rest of them? I mean, yeah. But then he...
You didn't have experience. Because he's not an ugly nigga. Oh, no. He is a handsome guy. But you also. And he was that nigga by the age of 19. And you tell. He was. But he had such a big gap of not really finding love. He was probably fucking. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It was exploring. His first love was. Exploring sexually and exploring and like real trying to actually have concrete relationships are two totally different things. Exploring sexually and exploring love are two different things. And you said exploring sexually. I said.
Like, that's... Most of his time that he was supposed to... His prime, he was addicted to drugs, so I doubt he was getting any. My personal opinion, not rooted in fact, everybody. Not rooted in fact. Okay, so he started...
spending the night at these women's house to avoid coming home to helen because you know they were living together and he wanted to do his own thing see other women um and helen of course knew where he was playing at knew where he was scheduled to be because she was the one that signed the contracts booked the gigs did everything so he was kind of like trying to sneak out from somebody that knew his whole schedule um he was being really shady are you gonna hide when i got your location right
He's being really shady and speaking, chatting to other women. And she, of course, didn't like this. Some people were saying that, oh, Helen was addicted to him. And it felt like she owed him something. I think that she did feel that way. And it comes in those quotes.
It's like, damn, I've been here for all it is. When somebody seems to like drop everything that they have and everything they have revolves around you and you're the source of their happiness and you're the source of their joy. And they're at her point at this point, her work revolves around him, everything. That is a lot of pressure because like I've been in a relationship where somebody was like, you're my, you're, you're my source of happiness. And I'm like, I cannot be that. I can't. Okay. Let's clarify that. No. No.
You don't want to be their only source of happiness. I should enhance the joy you already have. If on the bad days you need an extra pick me up, okay, but if you need to pick me up every single day, if I am your source of happiness, if I'm your source of joy every single day. Your soul source. Where do I get to be filled up?
Where do I get to have a bad day? When do you pour into me? Exactly. So it was kind of one of those things where everything she did was pouring into her, pouring into him. And he was fulfilling that to her because he appreciated everything she was doing. They were having a relationship. They were loving on each other. But when he started wanting to explore outside of her, she wasn't with that. He was gone. So a lot of other people were saying addictive, whatever. And then some people were like, listen, it was an open secret, but the least that he owed her was some respect. And I feel like,
That is at least... Like, you running around here. I'm sitting at home wondering... How you gonna have an open secret and respect? The open secret is already disrespectful. So that's what people are saying. The least that you owed her was some respect. Okay. You know?
because my guy you may not want to be with me but the least you can do is not have me waiting up all night for you like where are you you could communicate that with me you out here in somebody else's bed the least you can do is let me know like let me why am I sitting here at home thinking something's wrong with me actually no the
the least you could do was be better at it to where i don't know i wish you would fucking call me and be like yeah tell me you don't want to be with me no no because that's not what she wanted to hear that's not what she wanted to hear if you gonna be sneaking around you better not fucking get caught kind of like a lorenzen wright and shara wright robinson situation yes you don't need to fucking get caught that's how you be respectful cheating i shouldn't know your attention if you're gonna go this route you're
he could have do was have some respect. I mean, the respect would be you telling me to leave her. Would be to leave me, not to cheat on me. There is no disrespectful cheating. The respect is to leave me. You talking about I am currently being cheated on. I am sitting here with a clown face. I would rather be in the dark than somebody calling me talking about something. Yeah, I'm not because I'm with Keisha.
I'd rather you break up with me and do whatever the fuck you want to do. That's where it needs to be. But was she going to let him break up with her? Probably not. Curtis was supposed to love me. I turned my back and found you could have warned me, but that would have been too kind. So now we all know he was messing around in these streets. But one woman in particular who had his heart was Miss Lena, honey. And Helen knew all of this. You know, she started, you know, she started off kind of giving him the cold shoulder.
Like, all right, I guess I'm not going to show up for your shows. You know, you see, you see how it feels when I pull back. I would hate that. Like, that's the way to make me feel like you hate me. You didn't come to my show. Really? You didn't come to my show when you were supposed to. That's California. She remember she missed that flight when she was to come down to one of my shows. That's how she got blocked. Mm hmm.
Because he... You're supposed to see me perform, but I guess he didn't care. That's when I care. Right, that's what I'm saying. You have to care for that, right? That's when I care. Because it's not that he was waiting up at her shows. She assigned herself at his shows. You know what I mean? It's not like he invited and was like, baby, come see me. She was like, I'm here. You know? So... She booked the show. She booked the damn show. So, I mean... I guess she was hoping that he would miss her. Of course, it did not really go that way. He did not say...
Much about her not being there
And then one night, she saw him in front of an apartment building. And he is kissing another girl goodnight. And when he walks in, he comes home. She's like, oh, no, you didn't. And he's like, oh, no, I didn't. And she was like, yes, you did. And he was like, nah, baby, that wasn't me. And she was like, nigga, I know. You think I don't know you in these streets? It wasn't me. Like, straight up, he was lying, gaslighting the fuck out of her. What you not finna do is call me a liar in my face.
come on now I saw you so this one night him and his new girl Lena they getting ready to go to the club it's February 19th 1975 it's been 10 years since Lee showed up on Helen's doorstep right so he's playing this evening at the club called Slugs and Helen of course knew where the show was that night because she booked it so he
He's driving little Miss Lena Sherrod around in her car. He's trying to head to his show. But it's February in New York, and it's a full-on blizzard starting up, right? So the snow is sticking. The ice is all over the road. And I
As they're driving the slugs, and next thing you know, he gets a car accident. He totals her car. Ugh, the way I roll my eyes so hard because you totaled my car? Not you totaled your car. You totaled my car. Buy me a new one. The fuck? I just don't know what the other answer is. There's no other answers. So, both of them were okay. They, like, survived the car accident. It's just the car is fucked, right? So, they keep on keeping on to the club. I didn't call for a tow truck just yet because...
They crashed just because of ice. You know what I'm saying? It's a blizzard. Nobody's coming to tow that car out. Right. So, before Lee's set, you know, he's nervous and he's shaking up before the accident. You know, that shit really shake your nerves. Like, you can be perfectly fine, walk away, there's not a scratch or a bump, and you're like, I almost died. I mean, it kind of reminded me, do you remember when... My first accident. Your first accident when I was in the car with all the... And Tazzy was just like...
And it really was. I hit it on Mariah's side. I felt so. I got hit on Mariah's side. Right. And I felt so bad. And we were all okay. The car wasn't total. But Tazzy was like, I can't. I was sick. We had just graduated from high school. And it was a car full of like all of us about to go to college again.
Like, come on, girl. Sick. But those, it really, it really messes with you. So, yeah, he's all shaking up. He's throwing up before he gets on stage. Like, that shit really threw him off, you know? Okay, so he goes on stage to perform or whatever and...
Lena, she's not even, like, in the show. The place is packed already in a blizzard, which, why? New Yorkers. But she's like, my car just got totaled. I'm at the door waiting on a cab. Like, I don't have time. Like, I saw my little boo perform. I'm happy to be here. It's time to go. Like, she's like, I'm sitting at the door waiting for the cab to come in. She said, next thing you know, doors fly open. Helen walks in. Helen looks over. She see Lee at the bar talking to some whole other chick. Like...
So you just fucked up my car. Here's your wife. And you at the bar talking to who? This nigga's out of control. This nigga's out of control, right? So Helen busts through the doors. I'm here for the draw. Me and her. Her cut of the money. Or his cut of the money. Whoever's cut of the money, but she here to collect. Okay? Okay.
And like, it was just a whole scene. Like everybody saw her walk in. Right. So she go in and she sees Lee and she sees him at the bar flirting with this woman. Right. So she pulls his friend to the side. She's like this. I don't like you need to tell her to go this. Shut that shit down right now, man. If you got respect for the wife, you have to know who's the home team. Right. And if that's his wife, you got to keep it copacetic in the wife. I say,
not saying that he gotta go and be like hey he's over there cheating just hey bro clean it up she's here okay i mean i that that is the most respectful thing that a a friend could do right hey bro your man your woman is here she's at least in the building can we like while she's here maybe not and we all know you're making it awkward for the rest of us so he goes and he tries to tell lee you know clean it up and lee says no i'm gonna do what i want and um
Helen, she's sick of it. She's sick of the disrespect, you know? And while Beth, Helen, she already took her coat off at this point. And she rolls up, she, so she rolls up to him like, Hoppo, who this woman? He's like, don't worry about it. Not even, you know who she is. Don't worry about it. And she's like, oh, hell no. She starts yelling at him. The girl's like, just tell her, like, tell her you're not together. Like, da, da,
He's like, he starts yelling at her, screaming in her face. We are not together. We are not married. I don't want you. She slaps him. You called, cuz. She slaps him. Because what you're not going to do is yell at me in front of everybody that knows that we have been together. And play me like we ain't been down for 10 years. At that, 10 years. He's never had a job for a dime. You by yourself. Yo. So then after this incident,
after she slaps him he kind of like shoves her out of the bar shoves her out of the bar she doesn't have her coat but she has her purse on him and in her purse she has that gun he tells the bouncer hey don't let her back in this club or whatever first of all she flashes her gun at that bouncer the bouncer steps aside and she comes in and she puts the gun back in her purse she goes up to him and she pulls the gun out he lunges for her with both hands tries to stop her and like disarm her for the gun then she did one shot into his chest and lee was down
Now, if you listen to Sisters Who Kill podcast, you should already know the answer to this question. What do we always say to do as soon as you start getting interrogated? That's right. Ask for a lawyer. And when you're looking for the right lawyer, you want to make sure that you have a good lawyer, not just a good lawyer. You want the best lawyer. And that's where this week's sponsor comes in. This week's episode is brought to you by attorney Gloria L. Smith.
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Now, what happens afterwards depends on who you want to listen to. According to Helen, immediately she felt horrible. She was holding him, crying uncontrollably. She was like, I can't believe it. I'm so sorry. And apparently he whispered to her, I know you didn't mean to do it. I hope he did.
You hope he did. I hope he did, man. I hope that's true. And she was just listening to her talking about it. She was like, I was shocked. I couldn't believe what I heard. She couldn't believe she did it. It was definitely a crime of passion, like heightened emotion. But other people that were there were like, they heard her say, Morgan, how come you made me shoot you? Which also was like, how come you made me shoot you? Damn it, nigga. Yes, because it did have to be this way for you to just act it right. Or if you would have just told me it's over, if you would have legit been...
Stop fucking lying to me. He was trying to play her. But remember, they had that 13-year age gap. And so I feel like he was trying to play little boy games. And she was on that grown woman shit. And that age gap between them really showed in their relationship. Just how they were handling everything. So that single gunshot wound actually wouldn't have been fatal. But it took the ambulance an hour to get to the club because that blizzard had been laying on the city so thick.
By the time the ambulance arrived an hour later, he was already dead. She was there for the entire time. She didn't run or anything like that. And then she was arrested and sent to Rikers Island. In April 1972, she pleaded not guilty and she posted bail on May. In 1973, she switched her plea to guilty, second degree manslaughter, and...
Most of what she was sentenced to was unknown. Some people were saying she was in a mental hospital. Her records kind of got like... They said they were taken out of the clerk's office. And I'm like, taken by who? Right. And for why? All that's really known is that she was released from wherever after serving two years.
Only two years. Yeah. So sometime after getting out, she goes back by Slugs, the club where he was murdered at. And, you know, she sees all her old jazz people. They're all her friends. They were her friends. Right. And I what a person it is to go around here because I would just want to avoid everybody. Right. And there were people up there who were interviewed and it was like.
I thought about what I would do when I saw her again. You know, she took my friend away from me and I just thought about all this stuff I would do. So I saw her and just the remorsefulness that she had. I couldn't do anything but forgive her. Like you could see it hurt her as much as it hurt all the rest of us, you know, like,
He's like, I couldn't do nothing but forgive her. Just I wanted to be mad and couldn't. Yeah. So after that, she moved back to Wilmington and she was devoted to the church until her death of 1996. Now, when I say devoted for the church, it's not like she became some huge religious woman. Right. She felt like she needed to do something good with her life. So she sang in the choir and she did her tithes and kind of, you know,
I think she was just trying to be redeemed and forgiven. Like, I really took a whole ass life out here. And not just any old life. A life that I loved. Right. That you really cared of. All because emotion. All right. So now it is time for... Well, I'm not black. I'm OG.
I didn't do it, but if I did, this is how I would have gotten away with it. Oh, that. Why am I thinking we don't review this? That's why I'm like, what are you doing? Okay. I ain't do it, but if I did, oh my God. I just feel like being a hothead, you probably shouldn't carry a gun in your purse. If we're on these intense emotions, you know what I'm saying? But she didn't have the gun because she was a hothead. She went to that bar.
because she knew the way she stormed in there with the doors flying open she was on some hothead shit you know what i'm saying some people she just you're one bad day away from a murder and he tried her bad days you could save yourself a murder if you don't pack the weapon you can always find a weapon at a bar you could but i think it'd have been better off if he got smashed with a bottle than shot by a gun i didn't do it but if i did i would have gotten legally married to him
First of all, common law is not really acknowledged by a lot of people, especially now. Nigga, it's acknowledged by the fucking law. That's why it's called common law marriage. If I'm with you 10 years, I've got rights, nigga. This says no minimum amount of time. That's weird.
A couple can live together for one day and be considered common law married if they agree to be married and hold themselves as such. So all you got to do is say we together and you basically wifey. And I'm taking your ass to court. Call me wifey too many times and try and blame me. But you know what? That one time that, man, I might not put this on the air. And the police were like, you can't kick her out. It don't matter if she don't pay bills. Yes.
A victim bum ass niggas is hard, yo. Cause if I'm living here like this is my home, you're not allowed to snatch my home away from me. I'm like, nigga, I got a sock drawer. Like, you can't do it. That's what I'm saying. It don't matter who acknowledge it. The law acknowledges it. That's why I like, I can't just be moving in with motherfuckers. Like, cause I have rights. I have rights and you're gonna be upset when I, when I use them. When I invoke those rights? Yeah, man. People be like,
No, no, no, you don't because I'm cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Listen. You better ask somebody. In Georgia, you either have to be there 30 days or receive mail. Mail come quick. It takes no time to change that address. Mail comes quick. Okay. All you have to do is pay that $1 service fee. Trust me, I know. Okay.
It's really our show. It definitely... It's sad that Lee was really getting back on his feet and he was starting to reach new heights in his career before he was taken away. I think it's sad and I don't think there's any good answer. It's just the breaks, right? But, like, she put all this work into him just for him. Like, when he was down and out. Problem was that, like...
He was fine being with her. The problem is him. He used to use fine being with her when I need, when he needed her. But now that he was back on top and could take care of himself. Now all of that's gone and it ain't nothing you can do about it. Like, I mean, the best thing is to get away from a nigga that don't love you for real. You know what I mean? But it hurts. Cause it's not like this was some short thing. She put years, 10 years, years into this nigga for you to act like,
I'm nothing. When a woman's fed up, there ain't nothing you can do about it. Just like falling out of love.
And it's too late to talk about it. Parole or no parole, friend? She out. She out. That was quick, too. Two years. I don't know what the hell she did, but I'll take it. She finesse. I really wish I could know. Listen, tell me what to do. I need to know. Share with the listeners. For research purposes. Okay.
She's, of course, passed on. But, like, I wish we could get a little bit of, let us know. But I hate that her interview didn't finish. I bet she had some more to tell. Oh, I bet she did. That's why you get good lawyers like our sponsor this week. All right. I think that's all we have. Let's go ahead and read some reviews.
Oh my my says love it. I found y'all on TikTok and said let me tune in. Once I listened I was hooked. I knew Taz was a Scorpio. Me too girl. 11-11. That's one day before my supposed due date. I was supposed to be born on the 12th.
We definitely react the same way. The same energy is definitely given what it's supposed to get gave. Keep up the amazing work, sisters. I'm just trying to be real, man. They out here wildin'. I know. All right. This one is from Jiggly Jada. Jiggly Jada? I love that shit. Okay. I was like, I bet she look good in some shorts. Jiggly Jada says, Hey!
I was wondering if you guys could do a few stories about some West Coast girls, if there are any. I just wanted to compare the difference in the justice system, which I'm sure there are some cases that we haven't listened from the West Coast. Also, yeah, definitely send in some. Ain't nobody killing like the Midwest girls. Clearly, we need to find us a black cow girl. That'll be fun. Oh, so, um, yeah, that's it. Thank you guys so much for everybody that came to our first live chat with you all.
Tazzy was so nervous. I was so nervous. We are so grateful for everybody that has donated to the tech fund and continues to donate to the tech fund. We finally started, you know...
getting new equipment. It doesn't, it's on its way. It's not here this week. So hopefully things will slowly but surely start to improve, but we are not there yet. We have not reached our goal and there's still quite a few things that we need to make sure that this production is going to be absolutely amazing for you every single week. So make sure that you give in the tech fund, the description, the link is in the description box of the podcast. Yeah. If you want to hang out with us, you can email Tassie.
If you want to talk to us. If you want to talk about it.
No, you cannot hang out with us. We do not trust you all. Freaking weirdos. But if you want to talk to us, you can email us at sisterswhokillpodcasts at gmail.com. You can follow us on Instagram at sisterswhokillpod, on Twitter at sisterswhokill, on Instagram at sisterswhokillpodcast, and join the discussion group where we just get into it in there, okay? Tessie, you have anything else to say? Talk to us, we talk back. All right, peace. Peace.