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What's going on, everybody? I'm Marah. And I'm Tez. And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. Thank you all so much for all of the love and support. And thank you for everybody that's been responding to all of the podcasts. We wanted to make a quick
a quick correction to ourselves from last week. We actually mispronounced the city that Daphne was, well, the city that Daphne committed her murder in. The name of the city is actually called Sioux Falls, named after the Native American Sioux tribe. So shout out to one of our listeners that is a lifelong Sioux Falls resident that emailed us and corrected us. Thank you, thank you. For this week's episode, we have always heard about those neighbors that get on your nerves, right? Mm-hmm.
But is a neighbor's quarrel reason enough to kill?
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Alright, so our players this week are Jason Patrick Horsley, the neighbor. Debra Lucille, the neighbor and Jason's fiance, so they live together. Beverly Grant Cobb, the neighbor slash landlord of Maleka Griffin, our murderess. Now, Maleka Griffin grew up in Pontiac, Michigan, a city just outside of Detroit.
Her mother described her as a wonderful daughter. Her mother said that she was respectful, responsible, focused. She was a very bright young girl and was awarded a full-ride scholarship to Jackson State University in Mississippi. Shout out to the HBCUs. From there, she graduated magna cum laude, top of her class with a degree in chemistry. So you know she was like...
Super smart, because chemistry ain't no hope. She began working towards her PhD, but she decided she wanted to go ahead and drop out because she wanted to explore the world. She then went backpacking across Europe for an entire year, which is extremely hard to do. She did this all alone for a year and came back and decided she wanted to taste the states. So she wanted to go from state to state, live in those states, and kind of be a drifter, see what life was like.
Finally, she moved to Denver, settled down because she decided that this is where she wanted to call home. Right, so it's January 1999 and she decided she'd stay in Denver. She frequented a coffee shop where she met Beverly, who also ran the coffee shop. And I guess she talked about how she moved from place to place and she would stay in hostels. And Beverly was like, well, since you want to stay, I got a rental property two houses down from me.
So, you know, if you want to rent that out, you can. And she did. But Beverly says Malika was a great tenant, actually a model tenant. She's like she paid on time, if not early. Like she was quiet. She she caused no issues. Her neighbors also described her as quiet and nice.
all except one. In 1997, Jason Horsley left his home of Cheyenne, Wyoming and bought a house on Humboldt Street with his fiance, Debra. The area was said to be up and coming and the prices were super affordable, but I guess it's because Jason bought himself a former crack house. They say like this was a time of gentrification in this city.
And that's immediately what my mind went to. Go ahead. That's what it is. The houses were nice. They just hadn't been taken care of and they got run down. So they needed a lot of fixing up. Lucky for Jason, he was a carpenter. So he and his fiance move in and they fix up the house.
and they set on a goal of getting to know each and every one of the neighbors. Like, he's like, I'm going to learn all of y'all and we're just going to have a good time. He really wanted to be a good neighbor because... Very first homeowner type shit. Yes, but also he was like, the house isn't the only thing that brought him there. He specifically chose this area and he specifically chose to be in a predominantly black neighborhood because he wanted to be around more diversity.
So did he not grow up around diversity? And he was like, so I was talking to Yana and she told me nobody lives in Wyoming. And I was like, what do you mean nobody lives there? And she was like, they might have one of the lowest populations. Really, it's Alaska. But next is Wyoming. They have a population of like they have like six people per square mile. So I'm sure there wouldn't be a lot of diversity out there.
But yeah, so cheap houses and black people. That's what brought them out. So let's fast forward to April 1999. Malika had already been living at the rental property for just a little while. And her and her neighbors had their first incident. The couple had these large dogs. And like these dogs were known for being very not well trained. They're
They seem kind of aggressive. They're growling. They're barking at people. But you know, like white people and their dogs, like they're very like, I love them. They're my baby. I do not like untrained dogs. Like I don't like dogs jumping on me. I don't like it. I'm going to judge you if your dog is acting up. I don't care what size it is. I don't care what size it is. If your dog does not listen to you and like just out here acting wild, then you either need to take that dog to a trainer or get that dog up.
Right, exactly. So these dogs would bark all the time, which I know is extremely irritating to me. And it was especially irritating to Malika, who did not like dogs. There was a conversation. Either dog was barking or maybe growled. And even the landlord said, like, sometimes if the dogs didn't know you, they would come up to you like they're gonna attack. So her and Deb get into an argument. Malika's like, you need to control your motherfucking dogs. Deb's like, you don't tell me what to do.
to do and Malika said if your dog step on this yard I'm gonna shoot them like straight up which
it's very dramatic. This made Deb extremely upset and she starts going off on Malika. The landlord, Deb, she ends up pulling up on the scene, but she pulls up at the very end of the argument. She said that she could hear Deb going off on Malika. So at this time, she's mostly hearing Deb, this white woman, yelling at Malika. Finally, when she asked, like, what's going on? Why are y'all arguing? I just heard y'all arguing. Malika's like, girl...
Nothing. I was just telling her she needs to control them damn dogs. Them dogs are out of control. And Bev was like, you know, that's a fair statement. Like, those dogs really are crazy. And so, after speaking to Malika, Bev checks in with Deb, who was super apologetic. Like, you know, they're still new to the neighborhood. They are the only white people in this neighborhood, or one of the few white people in this neighborhood. So...
very, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to do that. She basically like had tears in her eyes because she was just shaken up and she just wanted to apologize and make things right, you know? Sure. So after that incident, almost everything became a little argument between the
couple and Malika complaints about him cleaning out his truck, about him leaving tools just everywhere outside and about the house that they're working on because construction is loud and they're renovating an entire house. So sometimes when he's doing construction in the evening, it's loud and you can hear
equipment going off it really pissed off malika then one day his ladder was on her side of the property and it just pissed her off so it was just a whole bunch of like nitpicking shit yeah you know when somebody pisses you off like if they breathe you're pissed it's called your bitch eating crackers that bitch could be eating crackers and it will piss you the fuck off right
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but the way that their houses are set up, Beverly, the landlord's house is first. Then she is next door neighbor to the couple who is next door neighbor to Malika. Right. It's May 18th, 1999. The couple had just gotten home from walking their dogs and Jason goes outside to start unpacking his truck so he can repack it in a more organized fashion.
So apparently this is like a nightly routine for him. Like throughout the day, he's just throwing shit in there. He comes at night. He organizes his truck so he can start the next day. Right. Malika comes outside. She's like, clean this shit up and move your car. Now, at this time, he was parked in front of her house, but because somebody was parked in front of his house. But here's the thing. She didn't have a car. She didn't have a car. Car. Car.
So I don't know why she wanted him to move. But again, that's her bitch eating crackers. So no, you can't have the spot in front of my house, you know? But I also know people are like, do not park in front of my crib. Don't park in front of my house. I don't care who it is. Don't park in front of my house. Don't turn around in my driveway. So yeah, she's like, clean this shit up. And he's like, bitch, leave me alone. I'll clean it up when I'm finished.
Debra comes outside and she was like, don't be talking to my boyfriend like that. I don't like that. She begins with her white woman arguing like the sidewalk is public property and yada, yada, yada rules, yada regulations. So Malika responds by talking shit back. She's like, you white bread, honey, whatever the fuck. What you think this is? 90210? Classic. Right.
Now, Deborah says Malika looked like she was about to hit her. So she continues on her white woman-ness with, Don't try and fight me because if you do, I will take you to court and I will be pressing charges. To which Malika responds, I don't do prison. Now, Deb says she doesn't know what that meant. And she keeps going. And she was like, I'm sorry you're so bitter and angry. And I'm sorry your life sucks. But we are not who you need to be mad at. And that's it.
yada yada yada jason leaves and he goes to beverly he was like listen then women at it again can you come defuse the situation you know because this is her tenant beverly comes out here and she's like i'm coming in on a tail and again but all i see is deb again yelling at malika and she's like and malika is like standing there nodding taking it and she was like that was being rude she's like i ain't make
$40,000 a year. I have a man. You don't have a man. I think you're a lesbian. Just... I could just imagine her there, like, you know how, like, when you nodding your head and you know you're upset and you got your lip poked out, like, yeah, bitch, I got something coming for you. Mm-hmm. It's definitely one of those moments. She was counting in her head and the time went off and she was still mad, so it was time for plan B. Right.
She's just nodding. Beverly sees her just nodding or whatever and Deb finally shuts up and Malika was like, "You know what? You wait right here." She goes in the house. Nobody waits. Beverly goes back to her house. Deborah goes back into her house. Malika goes in her house, grabs her 9mm semi-automatic pistol with the laser sights, steps outside to only Jason. She walks up on him, holds the pistol 18 inches from his back, and pulls the trigger.
Boom. Loud noise goes off. Beverly runs outside to Deb. Deb's running outside. She's like, girl, did you hear that? Deb's like, yeah. So they go around looking to see what could have caused the noise. And they find Jason with his feet hanging out the truck. He had been shot. Deb is horrified. She tries to get him to the hospital, but she's so shaken up. She can't even turn the car on. A neighbor runs from across the street, grabs the keys from her, pushes her over into the truck and takes the car. He's blowing past the stop signs, trying to rush Jason to the hospital, but it was of no use because Jason died already.
almost instantly. The bullet broke through part of his left clavicle, through part of his lung, through part of the left side of his heart and exited out of his chest. So it's the same day around 9 p.m. So meanwhile, back at the house, remember, Deb has ran off and she's at the hospital trying to hopefully save his life. Back at the house, someone calls the police and the police arrive immediately.
very quickly. On the snapped episode that we watched, they said that pretty much the entire block called the police. And it took no time for that place to be lit up with sirens or whatever. This used to be a bad neighborhood that is like in the early phases of gentrification. So the police scan the scene and realize that there is only one
one neighbor that's not accounted for so neighbors tell the cops about the argument but there's no eyewitnesses of the shooting like yeah they got into an argument but that doesn't mean that she actually shot him no one actually saw her do it right witness however they describe a woman fitting her description in a red jacket running southbound shortly after jason was pronounced dead and the cops picked up deb from the hospital she told the police that this had maleka written all over
So Deb is telling the police everything that she knows. She's telling them about the fight. She's telling about the petty arguments that they had because she's like, there's nobody that it could be other than this woman, Maleka. Now, meanwhile, while Deb is doing that, Maleka had ran to an acquaintance house who wasn't home. The acquaintance wasn't home, but her teenage son was. She like shows the gun to the kid and is like, I just killed a white man. You've got to help me get rid of this. And the kid is like, um...
No. I just don't know why you would ask a kid for that type of help. Ask a teenager. Like, no. So the police kind of track her steps and get to this house of the acquaintance, but Malika had already left out of the back door and dumped her red jacket in the dumpster behind the house. After that, she made another stop, and this time that stop was to her friend Monique.
Now, Monique said Malika arrived at her house real nervous and she said that she could smell alcohol on her breath. Monique asked her, like, yo, girl, what's going on? And Malika told her, I'm having issues with my boyfriend. You know, I need to borrow your car. I need to just get out. I need to go somewhere. Monique says, girl, you can't borrow my car. Right.
But I can take you wherever you need to go. Which is very understandable. You can't jack my shit. You're not even telling me where you're going. I understand you're going through something. I will definitely drop you off. Tell me where you need to go. Malika says...
no that's not the case and she whips out the gun grabs the keys unplugs the phone and she says i don't want to do this don't scream don't call the police and she started to leave but saw police cruising down the street she orders monique to tell her when the coast is clear she's like don't you fucking lie to me so she orders monique to tell her when the coast is clear monique is like okay a couple minutes go by the coast is clear malika then jumps in the car and leaves now you know monique wasn't gonna just let her shit get stolen right
Monique actually had a much older car at the time and it wasn't in great condition, but that don't give nobody a right to steal your shit. So Monique definitely went to go report it. They put out a be on the lookout for her car because, okay, our right now person of interest suspect is out here in this vehicle. So police are still trying to work. They're trying to figure out where this woman is and they finally get a warrant to search her house. In her closet, they find...
so much shit y'all they find so much shit in her closet they find a fully loaded assault rifle and y'all this assault rifle people were so shocked to find it because remember this is 99 this is the same type of gun that was used in the columbine massacre so police are already on very high alert
They also find two hand grenades. Now when hand grenades are found, police have to back out and call in bomb squad. Bomb squad comes in and they determine that these hand grenades are just the shells. They then find books. Two books that stood out in particular. One is the Anarchist Cookbook and the other one, The Poor Man's James Bond. They also find gun magazines and basically this is like a terrorist library. Like these are the books that they're like, oh, these books teach you how to change your identity, how to make
How to evade the police. How to make booby traps. All types of shit that you would need if you are planning some type of... Crime. Extreme crime. They also found an abandoned backpack that had papers that related back to Malika. Like maybe her names were on it or something. Yeah.
In this bag were two binders which made up her diary. And these passages, like the pages in her diary, were kind of outrageous. They were wild. So they had some of the following statements. Quote, it's inevitable that we'll have to go to war with whites. We must kill them. So also at this time, just imagine.
About a week before the shooting happened, Malaika actually had to file for bankruptcy. And oh yeah, she didn't have a car because it got repossessed. Now, she justifies this in this paperwork. She says, quote, so we can't pay attention to their laws and their rules. They shouldn't have a say in keeping us in or out of our business. They shouldn't be in the loan offices, appraisers, etc. We should ignore them.
So they were like, oh, she just got repossessed. She just filed bankruptcy, but...
She's not even planning on paying none of this back anyways because it's the white man's law, which, all right. She continues, we need to control whites for the good of womankind. Look at all the destruction they have created. We must not...
devalue whites to think that they are less than us they must be worth nothing their existence must have no human significance to blacks they must exist only to assure us of our black value and act out and attribute our most destructive instincts so she's like pretty much imagining a parallel universe like everything is off
Right. She's saying like, fuck our enemies. But she's also saying like, fuck our enemies. They will kill us for sure. Black women need to learn defense. Kill your enemies by any means. And then she goes on with like the different ways of killing your enemies and how you can get away with it. Like how to muffle a gun or maybe hire somebody. And then she says black women.
women unite i think my favorite was fuck what our enemies say their opinion should no longer guide us in the direction out of this white supremacist patriarchal hell i hate them and deep down you do too 98 of black female population thinks wife ain't worth shit and don't want to be around them let alone think about them we hate whites more than they hate us so it's time that we used our fear anger disgust to destroy them black women unite and i just i want to check those statistics
Right. Well, I mean...
she was a chemist so maybe they're right uh but basically what she was alluding to was a race war and in that race war how black women specifically had to protect themselves once it broke out right i think her problem was she's a radical like i'm with you you're just on the extreme side of it and if we could dial that scale back like a ton i think we could get somewhere
Right. She's another one of those people that's like, I see your thought process. I understand where it is. Like, you're just taking it a little too far. Like, how do we change these systems to ensure that black women have the ability to live and thrive and flourish? Maybe without murder? Right. But she wasn't looking for an equal system. She wants it turned on her head. Y'all had the power for so long. It's our time. Fuck you. And I also understand that too, sis. I do. I do. I do.
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So now she's on the run. The police have spread the bolo out because now they know that she's in a car. So they basically got a bolo from Denver to her home state of Michigan, thinking that she'll go back to her mom. She had no criminal past, so she had no record. There were no good fingerprints for them to use. Only thing that they had was that bankruptcy paperwork that she filed for, which is not a lot when you're trying to do a murder case. Right. They're talking to her family and her friends, and they're like, first of all...
Never even knew she was into guns and weapons and shit.
Second of all, this hatred of white people, don't know where the fuck that came from because I've just never seen her express these things to us. You know what I'm saying? That's her mom. These are people who she went to school with. And it was like, I mean, I guess people change, but that's a big ass change. On June 21st, like two and a half days later, they find Monique's car broken down in Iowa City, Iowa. From there, Malika befriended a man who got her a ticket and put her on a bus to Chicago.
Tracking these movements, they assume that she's headed to her mother's house again, but instead she calls home and informs her mom that she's in trouble. This was the last contact she made to her mother. Now that they could prove that she crossed state lines, they were able to seek help from the FBI. They put a UFAP warrant on her,
which is unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. And so they basically arrest her anywhere on site. Right, because if you commit a crime, especially like a capital offense, and you cross state lines, now it's in the FBI's hand. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
but Maleka disappeared. Vanished, y'all. Like, dead ass vanished. So this is 1999, and in March 2000, about nine months later, America's Most Wanted aired the story of Maleka. America's Most Wanted, they tell you about the crime, they tell you, like, kind of what they did, and who or what signs to look out for Maleka. They said that she possibly worked in the biotech field because, you know, her degree. They got hella tired.
tips people reported seeing her everywhere they said that they saw her in Alaska they said they saw her in Tennessee in Jersey in Cali all over anywhere in the United States that they thought that they saw this woman they were reporting her but all of those ended up being dead ends years go by and they continue to run that episode and nothing ever panned out so and they said they fully investigated every tip like
every single week they was like we have to go in like nothing they had to find her exactly and when when you're on america's most wanted i guess like you're still getting in a lot of tips because people think that they saw you i you guys i'm in the acting field like i know somebody that had to do one of those i don't know if it was america's most wanted or one of those other shows where it talks about reenactments and somebody called the police on him like the very next day because they thought it was him and he's like no i'm the actor
that's so funny. He's like, it's not me. I'm the actor. And it like a whole police pulled up and he was like, and it was a whole thing. It was so funny. Anyways. So at this point they're wondering like, did she flee the country? They know that she at least has studied the knowledge of how to evade the police. They're like, did she assume a new identity? They thought that maybe she was in Cuba. Some people even thought that maybe,
She got sick of life on the run. It really wasn't in her natural personality and maybe committed suicide and she's not here at all. You know what? First of all, seems like it is her natural personality because sis been on the move since jump.
Right. Like you left Michigan, went to Mississippi to go to school, then back to back across Europe to come back to the States to just live a little bit in each state and get a feel for it. So like, right. She's kind of made for life on a run. Right. She also kind of reminds me of Eric Rudolph. You know, Eric Rudolph, the centennial bomber. Yeah.
Like he he was pretty good at hiding too like I think he stayed hidden for seven years hiding from the FBI But he just he hid in the woods. That's a whole different level of shit. But yeah, she was good at it We're in June 2005 at this point America's Most Wanted airs her episode for the seventh time now in the San Diego office of the FBI they get a call as the episode is playing and
And somebody says, that girl from that episode works at my job. She was hired last week. Her tip seemed pretty promising. She said she looked like her. She worked at a biotech firm, which is what they said she would probably work at at the end of the episode. And the girl had just started, you know. But the most interesting part of this tip was the new hire's name, Lake Griffin. Let me tell you what.
Mariah Williams will not be my undercover name. Mariah Williams will not be my undercover name either. You know why they said they do it? They was like, you got a lot to deal with when you're living life on the run. You don't need to remember a whole new identity. So a lot of people actually get something pretty close because it's just less to remember and keep up with. You know, they tell you only tell kind of a lie. The best lies are mostly true, right? Right, I guess. Yeah.
So June 5th 2015 would have been Jason's 32nd birthday Instead it was today that the police finally arrested Malika Griffin She did not resist but instead met the officers at her door and calmly went into police custody It basically turns out she was doing whatever she had to do to survive She worked any job that she could at the time and even at the time she was arrested. She was working three jobs She was working at some food
food service job she worked at a thrift store and at the biotech firm and you know i just feel like she know what it's like to be broke and she's not going back there no more like life on the run or not here's the thing like when you're were all these jobs other than bios were all these jobs paying her under the table because you have to show your id to get on payroll
it's a lot of people who don't use their own id to work their job some of them using two ids so they can get overtime without doing overtime like it cost me airing your crimes out on this podcast friend they're not my crimes i'm just saying i've worked with people who are not working under their own social they
They get her into custody and they start preparing for the trial. Takes them about eight months to get things together. You think they've had all this time to get their shit together, but... But here's the thing, they have to go find witnesses. Right, because, like, first of all, are they even alive? What state are they even in? Like...
I'm sure they've lost touch with these people six years later. They had to refine all these people, rebuild the case, and they charged her with first-degree murder, aggravated robbery, and aggravated motor vehicle theft. She didn't contest the robbery or the theft, so the only challenge for the prosecution was to prove first-degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution argued that because she went
into the house to get the gun and then return that that's what made it first degree meaning like she planned it as opposed to just being a reaction i mean i guess when sisters who kill began an online store was the furthest thing from our minds i mean
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RocketMoney.com slash sisters. The defense argued self-defense. And in order to get self-defense, you have to prove there was a reasonable and honest belief that you were going to sustain an injury, have bodily harm, or die.
die on march 1st malika took the stand and she had to testify because she was doing a self-defense plea so she's the only one who can speak you know to the danger she was in so it was two people in the situation and one of them is dead right so she was like when i returned outside i was afraid jason turned around and he was like i'm getting tired of you bitch and i'm gonna resolve this she says at that point he reached back in his truck and he grabbed something which she thought was to hurt her he
Even still, she didn't intend to kill him, but was startled by the dogs barking. And for me, this kind of just feels like one of those full circle jokes. A full circle joke? Okay, so like I was doing a play with one of my kids and it was about trousers, right? And so these brothers, this brother brought his other brother's trousers and he ripped a hole in the knee. He was like, you're always messing up my stuff. And he was like, no, I'm not. He was like, you messed up this. I spilled water on your laptop. Sorry, it was an accident.
He was like, what about this? And he was like, sorry, it was an accident. Then he holds his shorts up and he was like, I think your shorts shrunk. And he's like, oh, wait, you didn't ruin my shorts. You ruined yours. He was like, but I got them out your door. And he was like, oh, guess it was an accident. You know, and so they're like, the dog's barking, the dog's barking. It's not that deep. And she was like, I didn't mean to kill you. The dogs were barking. Like, I told you to control your dogs.
And she also says, like, when they ask, like, why do you have this gun on you? I mean, I'm a single woman living in the city and danger is out. So having a gun on my person is not the craziest thing. We see it all the time, even to this day. This argument didn't go well because the prosecution argued that she shot him in the back with the barrel about
18 inches away from him. So pretty much execution style. When questioned about her diary, because, you know, we read those quotes earlier and they were a little out there, she had a very calm, cool, and collected answer. And she said, well, I was writing a play and that most of those crazy statements aren't hers. They're just quotes.
She also said that by the end of the play, everyone was going to come together and get along and everything that you saw, that was completely fiction. And at some point, I plan on producing this episode.
peace the prosecution said hell no shut that shit down it was not written like a fictional piece so here's what i wonder right did she write about anything other than hating white people like was there like oh i had this day at work talking about the day at the pharmacy or the the biotech firm or whatever you know what i'm saying or was it strictly about this
Because if it's a diary, you think it would contain more than just that, right? It would be a whole bunch of other stuff, too. Well, those pieces weren't submitted into evidence, so I guess you and I will never know. Never. Because white people are going to put in what they only want to. So when they asked her, okay, so if this was self-defense, if...
These papers are a fictional piece of literature. Why did you run away? And she has an answer that makes a lot of fucking sense to me. It's the best answer I've heard. Right. She says, look, I'm a black woman and I just shot a white man. If I get arrested, I'm not going to get a fair trial.
Where's the line? I feel you, girl. It is so hard to be a black woman in America and then to do a heinous crime against not just a white person, but a white male. You might as well just bury yourself under the prison because no one's going to even want to hear what you have to say. No one's going to want to believe anything that comes out of your mouth. So the jury leaves. They deliberate for about eight
eight hours and they come back and they found her guilty of first-degree murder with an automatic sentence of life without parole she was also found guilty for aggravated robbery and motor vehicle theft which tacked on an additional ten years so she's got life and ten years after that life and ten life and ten she's serving her sentence at La Vista Correctional Facility in Colorado she filed an appeal arguing attorney Pro Hack Vice which basically
basically means that her state, her court appointed attorney actually wasn't licensed to practice in that state. And apparently this is a pretty common practice. It's actually extremely easy for you not to be licensed in a particular state and still be able to practice in that state. I was reading from like the official bar exam article
I mean, the official bar, like how you could do that. So in some states, there's a fee for the attorney to work in that state just for that particular case. And in Colorado, it's absolutely free. There's actually quite a few rules in the state of Colorado that allow pro-hack vice attorneys. And...
Some states are less than others. Like I'm looking at Georgia because y'all know we're from Georgia. There's only one condition that you can use that. But in Colorado, there's one, two, three, four, five and no fee, which I'm scrolling down and I don't see any other ones. In my quick scroll, there might be one. And in my quick scroll, I don't see any other ones where the lawyer does not have to pay a fee for that temporary license in that state. So the court system says, NOSIS denied. You got a fair trial. Yeah, that's our case. Uh,
But I got a couple of things that I still want to get into. Sure.
So, first of all, it wasn't argued in court, but they said that she showed symptoms of paranoid personality disorder. And so it says, people with paranoid personality disorder suffer from paranoia and unrelenting mistrust and suspicion of others, even when there is no reason to be suspicious. That sounds like her fucking way out of jail. I don't know why she didn't do that. Right. Especially because...
her feelings were so secret, you know, like this hatred of white people, you know, it's extreme, like paranoia, you know, but also her family and friends didn't know about it. So it was like also a secret, you know, I think she should definitely get checked out for that.
and then try her appeal again if she can. Another thing was America's Most Wanted. Yeah, America's Most Wanted. Like, you think about America's Most Wanted because, like, we've grown up. It's been on TV. It's, especially during our lifetime, it's...
been fairly popular. Like, I've seen the old school ones. It was away and now it's back. Yeah. And it was Fox's first hit series. Right. Which, like, I hate you Fox News, but, like, that was one of their very first hit series. And the thing about
America's Most Wanted that I don't like and I think that a lot of people actually have argued is the fact that you're telling the story of somebody that has allegedly committed this crime and in this way that you're telling it you have already presumed them to be guilty this person has not stand it
trial they have not been able to tell their side of the story they have not stood in front of a jury of their peers however in the eyes of the people that are viewing this show that person is already guilty and we're looking for a criminal they're not looking for like someone to bring in to hopefully try for a crime they're like a murderer they don't really say like allegedly they say like they did it and that's against your constitutional rights and
For somebody in Maleka's case, she was aired seven times across this show that is a hit show. It's a lot. First of all, kudos to you for saying hidden while you're on national fucking TV every fucking year. Constantly. Right.
Every year, they're saying, this is a criminal, this is a killer, this is a criminal, this is a killer. So how, at that point, can you have an unbiased and fair trial, you know? Like, I'm sure there's somebody who wasn't watching it, but still. I'm sure it was the talk of the town in Denver. And she didn't fight being extradited back home, so she went and did it where she committed the crime. So I'm sure they had the most publicity about it. It's just... Oh, absolutely. Doesn't seem quite right. It doesn't, because, like, she committed this crime, and she admits that she committed the crime. But...
one of the things is like she had that very strong argument of the fact that it was self-defense and especially when there's no eyewitnesses it's an argument that can be seen and that can be used and I think that it was a smart move for her and her attorneys to do but the
the fact that this is basically a trial by media. You know what I'm saying? Like she was proven guilty before she even had the chance to stand trial. So her as a black woman for killing a white man absolutely did not get a fair trial. Now she has filed for appeals, but each one has been denied. Right. And then even when she was in trial, like the prosecutor, he says, it's basically comes down to what caused you to kill hate or fear.
And I feel like, is this not the same question we're asking all these cops who are killing us in these streets? Like, was it hate or was it fear? It's a little bit of hate because you're supposed to be trained and every time it's a white person, it don't seem to be as fearful. You know what I'm saying? Right. You're not as scared when you're taking somebody that just shot up a church to Burger King. You're not scared of them then, but you're scared of an unarmed black child. You're scared of a girl with a knife, but you're not scared of
of a guy that literally just murdered people y'all got me fucked up all right so that brings us to our next segment well i'm not black i'm oj i ain't do it but if i did
This is how I would do it. Okay, friend. I ain't do it. But if I committed this crime, I would have got my ass out of the country. She clearly already knew how. Already had... I mean, you're already up north. Like, you couldn't just get up to Canada? I mean, she definitely did good. There's no telling how many states she hit on the way to... Like, did she go out to Michigan or did she stay out west? You know, did she go down south any? I'm sure she had to constantly move. I wonder how many, like,
I wonder if she had any really close encounters. Because they said that they got a lot of tips on her. They thought it would be something and then it's nothing. Did she catch on and she was like, oh, gotta go? Or was she just that good?
Right. I think that was the best part thing that she did was, you know, evading them. I honestly think she was over it. Like they're like, it wasn't a hassle. She came to the door and was like, yeah, it's me. Yeah, but she had to. But my thing is, like, if you if you are on America's Most Wanted for seven times, I know she at least saw one of them.
And so you know that they're looking for you in that biotech field. And I understand that you probably miss your job, girl, especially because, like, you got a degree and you work so hard. She was known for being quiet and kind of a nerd. She studied a lot. She wasn't a party animal. She didn't really go out. And, like, HBCUs, honey, we going to be out. But she wasn't that type of person. So maybe she really missed her field and decided she wanted to go back into it. And that, sis, is what slipped you up. Yeah.
What about you, friend? If I did it, I, one, would not have dropped my backpack. So she left out of the house with that book bag. And they didn't find it in her house. They found it, like, dropped on the street or something.
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Don't even let them get that. You know what I'm saying? Not with anything that they can trace back to me. Like, her name was on some of the papers in there or something. So, I think that was mistake number one. That was your first official tie. And without that backpack, without those letters, it wouldn't have been this whole hate crime thing. You know what I'm saying? And she might have could have went with the story of, I'm a black woman who shot a white man, and I won't get it. You know, maybe. But all this hate. Right, because everybody calling her a racist. I'm like...
because it just can't be. I know you white people love to be like, racist goes both ways. No, no, no, no, it doesn't. Not by definition, and that's what we're dealing with here. So this one says...
adjective prejudice against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group typically one that is a minority or marginalized white people y'all are never the minority y'all are never ever ever the minority you can be prejudiced but you cannot be racist
I know y'all love to throw it back on us. It's just, by definition, since y'all want to, I mean, let's get technical because, like, on our TikToks, we have a lot of technical Tina's. I mean, here we are. Like, they want to be part of everything. How you mad that people can't be racist towards you? What?
They want to be a part of everything. White people want to be oppressed so badly. White people want to be oppressed so badly. And I'm not saying that, like, this white man should have lost his life because he seemed like a very nice person. There definitely seemed to be something going on with her, whatever it may have been. But, like, saying that this was, like, a hate crime. You know what the other difference would have been for me? No. I'd have killed Debra and not Jason.
well i now now let's we're not in court so she's already been charged but i definitely think she went to go get that gun for deb and so listen so it was attempted first degree murder she told deb she said you know she was murder for deb but then what is it uh what's it when it's spontaneous
that's what it is for Jason. He was like manslaughter at when on the snap episode, he was like manslaughter at best. We're going to walk out of here today. But I definitely think when, when Deb was going off on her and Deb was trying to defend her man and all that stuff. And she was there shaking her head like, okay, I got something for that. And told her ass to wait right here. Oh, she was going, she was going to get that shit for Deb. And Jason just happened to be the only one left outside. It was really her and her wife.
out but that's the thing but Deb also said that she told him she was like come on let's just go in the house let all of us go in the house and Jason is like look I'm about to do my tools I'm about to rearrange this shit but see Debra says that she said that before the argument even started
she was like it's not fun being uncomfortable where you live i saw two different i saw two different things with deb on it and i saw two different stories right it's the story that she said when she was having the conversation and then there's a story that she told the police and so when she had the conversation she was like yeah like we argued and you know i just got flustered like when she talks to beverly who's also the landlord was also back when she talks to beverly it's
I'm sorry. I just, you know, got upset. Those are my dogs, but I want to make it right. Did you ever go and make it right? I doubt it. Right. Did you ever actually apologize to her? Right. And then again, she's coming back and Beverly always says, I never really see, I wasn't there the whole time, but I don't see Malika saying anything. I just see Deb going off every time. So. Right. And also your landlord is not your babysitter. I would be pissed if.
if somebody came and got me every time they got into an argument with my tenant, and I was like, I'd be like, does that have anything to do with my property? Like, is there damage to my property? Because at this point, y'all are neighbors, and you're going to have to work it out. Now we have our segment, Parole or No Parole? Parole or No Parole? Okay, so she's not eligible for parole. You know, girl... But if she was? I think, girl...
I want to, but I think you're going to have to just stay in there, girl, because I think you would have had a better argument and I probably would have let you out if you didn't run away. If you had that thought for that argument of self-defense and you didn't run away, I probably would have let you out. But, sis, I would like you to write a book. But then she has her argument of she wasn't going to get a fair trial. She had to live whatever free year she could before she gave it a rest. I get that, but I think she would have had...
I do get that, and I think that she's absolutely correct. But I think that she would have had more of a... Both trials were unfair, but she would have had more of a fair trial if she wasn't on America's Most Wanted seven times. Oh, so you're saying by running away, she became... She would have had more of a fair trial if it wasn't a trial by media. She would have had more of a fair trial if they were like, this woman killed this man execution style and then was away and hid for six years. Like, then...
You have more of an argument. You have more things stacked up for you than against you. By the time she hit trial, she had so many things stacked up against her. She basically was handcuffing herself. I wouldn't say parole. I would say another appeal and go for that paranoid personality disorder. And we'll see where that gets you. Maybe you can get some treatment or something. Yeah.
it's pretty crazy shit bro that library that you had at home did not that's the part that really didn't help it it didn't help you yeah yeah you definitely should have took that with you sis even if you had the gun and without the library i think you would have been like if they found the gun but they didn't find the library you still probably would have been okay so like put those books even the like gun magazine right that doesn't make you a killer
Well, that is another episode of Sisters Who Kill. Thank you to everybody that has listened to the episode and has come back. Thank you to all our newcomers. Hey, y'all. Welcome, killers. We see y'all. And please continue to support the podcast. You can review us on Apple Podcasts, and we're going to read some of our favorite reviews this week. People, you love us. You really love us. This one is from Poisoned Rum. It said, love, love, love.
Come on now.
actually entertaining. I found this last night and finished it all today. Crying face emoji, crying face emoji. I really feel like we homegirls talking about true crime for real. Y'all better pull through with the numbers, guys. We are homegirls. Y'all the killers. We here to tell y'all the crimes and we just, this is our hangout sesh every Friday. Exactly, exactly. Okay, I got another one from Demetria3 that says, sisters who kill.
love your dialect and opinion for each scenario this is such a great open and honest depiction of the judicial process for black women thank you I feel like when she was talking about our dialect right are you talking about are you calling this country everybody was talking about because during the episode of the murder of Imani Maz who was like that baby that baby ain't do nothing
and it's that is such a country thing to say so shout out to you thank you so much y'all we are like I gotta I have to do this one I have to do one more we usually do just two but I gotta do one more Deanna JW
said homegrown and i love it you are with your homegirls and you're in your house and that's why i love it don't clean it up i love you guys i'm tuned in every friday as a black girl crime junkie this is just a fresh breath of air thank you girl you so sweet
We were worried about it. And y'all, this is not a podcast for you to be watching, listen to. I made sure to go back and turn on the explicit. I'm seeing our ratings go up for that zero to 17. This is not for y'all. Right. This is, this is for grown folks. This is for grown folks, 18 and up.
All right. Make sure you all follow and support the podcast. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, ideas, suggestions, we've been loving all of the suggestions from you all. You can email us at sisterswhokillpodcast at gmail.com. You can follow us on TikTok at sisterswhokillpod. You can follow the discussion group. There's a link to it in the description box. You can follow us on Instagram at sisterswhokillpodcast. And you can follow us on Twitter at sisterswhokillpod.
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