Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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If you're listening to this, you probably already know what I'm about to say. That today is the day for you to start your podcast. You have everything that you need. Your computer, a little microphone, and Spotify for podcasters. It is the all-in-one platform where you can host, edit, and record your podcast and distribute it everywhere. Where you're listening right now, you can have your podcast there. I promise, for real. And it's free. And you can make some money off of your podcast. For
For free. Free money. Free money is out there. Just go get it by starting your podcast today. What's going on, everybody? I'm Marah. And I'm Taz. And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. Many of us have had the same dream when we get out of college, to land an entry position with a person or a company that would jumpstart your career. But when your job is demanding and you're working to cover up lies, someone always gets hurt. ♪♪
All righty, so let's start off with our players. We have two today. We have Linda Stein, who is a former punk band manager turned celebrity real estate agent. And we have Natavia Lowry. This is our murderess.
So Natavia was born September 7th, 1981 in the Grant Projects in West Harlem. Her father died when she was really young and so her mom had to work to make ends meet. Her mom, Lottie, eventually dated and married her stepfather, Daniel Walsh, and the family moved to Brooklyn. Natavia went to high school in Manhattan.
After high school, Natavia picked up a few jobs, and she stayed out there until she ended up going to college at North Carolina A&T. Shout out to HBCU. She went there in 2002. She ended up transferring to Hunter College, where she graduated with a business degree. So, so far, it seems like she's doing everything right. She, you know, got a job. She got her degree, and she's ready to go back to New York and start her career. Joke. Joke.
All the people who graduated ready to start their career and still have nothing. Me, currently, with a master's degree. Listen. In 2007, she decided to go into the Axios, which is a temp agency that hooks you up with work like temp agencies do.
So from there, she pretty much landed the job of a lifetime. She became a close personal assistant to the top celebrity realtor in New York, Linda Stein. Linda Stein was born Linda Adler on April 24th, 1945, until she met her husband, Seymour Stein. Her husband was the co-founder of Sire Records in 1966 until the record company was acquired by Warner Brothers in 1980.
He served as the vice president of Warner Brothers until his retirement in 2018. They both had a passion for music and they managed bands and artists and they were essentially responsible for launching the careers of folks like, you know, like Madonna, the Talking Heads, the Pretenders, all of these like super famous people, mostly punk plus Madonna, you know,
They had two daughters, but even still, they lived the drug, sex, and rock and roll lifestyle together while they were married between 1971 and 1979. They were partying with everyone, like Elton John, all the celebrities. I imagine their parties, if you guys have seen the BET Awards, Megan had that after party, and everybody is there. Everybody is at Megan's after party. You got Megan pouring liquor in a...
yeah but it's the white version you know what i'm saying i mean obviously i don't be at white people's parties but like the hot celebrities getting together and having a good fucking time i know they had like the top drugs anyways as a talent manager linda was known to be someone that you did not want to piss off okay as she
When she managed the big time punk group, the Ramones, she was said to be responsible for bringing punk to Britain. So like not only was she kind of mean, but she was on her shit. Like she did her job. She was known to be loud and blunt. And as much as she was known for being lively and fun, she was also known for her off the chart temper. So in like the 1990s, I guess her ex-husband wanted to get rid of one of his apartments. So she was like, okay, cool, I'll sell it. And this kind of kickstarted her career as a real estate entrepreneur.
broker for the stars. She sold homes to and for everyone, okay? Like Bruce Willis, Angelina Jolie, Madonna again, Sting, Steven Spielberg, like million dollar cribs, okay? All of these rich and famous people would just have their million dollars just circulating amongst each other because that's what rich and famous people do. And when doing business, Linda was known as
Okay. Usually the commission is sold 50, 50, but somehow she was able to negotiate her way of getting 65% of the commission. So like,
Whatever she was doing in the business world sis was doing it right. Okay, right Not only was she successful, but she also was a breast cancer survivor in the 90s she had a double mastectomy in the 90s and Just found out during the time of the story that she had a benign brain tumor and they didn't require surgery for it but she was on a very crazy concoction of pills and prescriptions just to keep her stable and it was definitely taking a toll on her body and
She was a yogi. She loved to do yoga and she practiced it every day. And now these small tasks like brushing her hair or standing up and doing things that she would normally do with ease, they were becoming very difficult because of her health condition kind of going down. She was also known, like we said, as loud. They said that she could say fuck both times in the same sentence and just... They said she used fuck as the noun, the verb, the adjective, whatever.
All of that. The relationship between Natavia and Linda were a little different than what we would think as like boss and personal assistant because it's not just that office setting. I was telling Tazzy like...
when i was researching this is very much reminded me of devil wears prada right yes you have to do my clergy work you have to you know set appointments and make sure that everything is coming in on time but also like go and make sure that the kids are straight make sure that the house is straight you're doing every single thing that this person needs for their life so she was setting up her aa meeting she was sometimes accompanying her on her walks or her jogs and she was even known to like wash her hair because these are things that she just couldn't do anymore now remember
This is a entry-level job that she got from a temp company. She's getting paid peanuts for all of the work that she's doing. Now, Linda did, you know, give her a little extra time or two, like gave her a little couple dollars here, a couple dollars there, especially when she had to do tasks such as washing her hair. And it was said that Linda, for the most part, was kind to her, like flew her boyfriend out at one point. So like, but here's the thing.
It's not enough money to live in New York. And I just want to pause here because I just I'm about to go on my little rant. But like my problem with because I mean, Tassie, we just both graduated from school and I just finished with my master's degree. And I coming from somebody that had to work throughout your entire time of school just to make sure that you had, you know, food.
And yeah, you may have. So I'm in school. I have a job. I'm trying to maintain my sanity. But also now I have graduated. I have a degree, but now I lack the experience. And so now you have these entry level jobs where they teach you.
They say they're going to teach you, but they give you peanuts and they want so much out of you. And I'm not afraid of work. Like, I'm not somebody that's afraid of work. But it's also not the work that's on my path. They're like, well, you got to work your way to your path to work your way up your path. And I get that, too. But, like, it's also a way that you go about it. Like, that's my problem with internships. Like, internships, it's so classes to me because...
For me, I couldn't afford to do an internship in undergrad or in grad school. The only time I did an internship was when it was required and my school paid for it. You know what I'm saying? Other than that, I couldn't afford to do that. I wanted to. I saw other people doing it. And because of that, they're probably doing a little bit better than me. But that's because...
They have the privilege of not being of not having to work, of having a disposable income. And think about like these high end jobs, the way that you get into these high end companies is by being an intern that doesn't get paid and being seen. But if you're a black kid from from Harlem or from from wherever, you can't afford to take an internship where they're not paying you in order to succeed. So it's they always want to keep us down, y'all.
But anyways, if money wasn't stressful enough, Natavia just found out that she was pregnant. So stress is already piling up on her. And New York is not cheap. At all. At all.
And with a baby? Can't imagine. It's October 2007, and Linda's daughter, who was crashing at her mother's New York apartment while she's in town working on a documentary, called her mom up to see what she's doing and to remind her that she'd be by later that afternoon. Instead of her mom answering the phone, her assistant Natavia did, and she said that her mom was out of the house at the moment and she took the message. This was no surprise for her daughter because this was the normal lifestyle for them. Calling her mom's phone and getting her assistant instead was not a big deal.
When her daughter did arrive later that afternoon, you know how you used to be like, when you get a phone or whatever, you'd be like, hold on, let me be your assistant. Hello, this is such and such phone. And be sitting there taking messages from your friends. Girl.
Acting like we knew what we was doing. Right. So when her daughter did arrive later that afternoon, like 1030 p.m., she opens the door to her mom's apartment at 965 Fifth Avenue Upper East Side to find Linda laying face down in a pool of blood.
She calls 911. Oh, my God. Police. Police operator. 1142. It's emergency. Hello? I just called. Please, I need an ambulance. Okay. What happened then, ma'am? My mom, she's dead, I think. I don't know. Call 911. Call 911.
Hello? Hello? What happened? Yes, ma'am. I saw it. Miss? Miss? Hello? Do you have a patient breathing and awake? Is this 911? Yes, it is. It's for a male or a female? For a female. How old is the patient? Approximate. How old?
The police arrive quickly because that's what they do for witch-rite women, right? And they get there and...
Automatically, it's like a whodunit. Linda was not the most liked person in the world. Like, she was liked, but she was also hated. Right, because she was mean to everybody. She was a bitch. You know, like, she was a bitch. Somebody tried to describe her, and they was like, she had a way with words. They was like, she wouldn't be like, oh, no, you do it like this. But she also wouldn't be like, this is fucking wrong. She'd be like, what the fuck is this?
Like, this isn't going to work. Fucking clean this shit up. And, you know, she was just very blunt with the way she talked. And it doesn't that doesn't rub everybody the right way. You know what I mean? So they're kind of looking at where to start and going through people who she might have had falling out to it. And so, of course, they start with her ex-boyfriend.
Who is Francisco Arena. Of course, you always start with the most recent lover because that's, you know, where these type of crimes usually go, right? That's usually who does it. If any time a woman is dead, I want to know who she was fucking. Right.
So, Francisco was an Italian contractor who Linda had been doing renovations with on her properties. They dated for a while. It seems like their breakup was amicable though. He took care of her during her last round of surgeries and they still considered each other friends. They also looked into Raul Garcia Bernal.
This was her old sales assistant back in 2005. She connected with Ryle, not just as an assistant, but like from the way they worded it, it looks like she was looking for like a companion to like she wanted his support and she wanted him to be there for her.
And he wasn't really fulfilling that. And like one night, the straw that broke the camel's back was she was hosting some event and he was supposed to, as her assistant, go around and work the room for her. Girl, he was going around and working the room for himself trying to get all her clients. No. Yeah. So she was like, you know what? That's it. Get the fuck out of here. So they was like, let's look into him too. Both of these guys alibied out like quickly. So they're no longer on the list. So they're like, okay.
Let's look at her new assistant. Let's look into Natavia. So they bring her in for questioning and homegirls already got her lawyer, Mr. Gilbert Paris. And he's like, listen, I do not want y'all talking to her without me. And the police is like, you know what? You're free to go. So Natavia is feeling pretty good, but little does she know the police has some surveillance footage.
They didn't tell her at the time though. They was like, you free to go. We'll call you. The police received this footage and on the tape, you can see Natavia. She comes down the elevators at the apartment with a bag. She leaves. She comes back through the apartment. At some point, she's looking down at her shoes. They suspect to see, they think she's looking to see if there's blood on her shoes. And she had on some cargo pants and they were now turned inside out.
Which they suspect was to hide any bloodstains. But if bloodstains was on one side of the pant, wouldn't it be on the other side of the pant? I mean, I guess if she's not saturated in blood, if it's just splatter. Maybe like cargo, it's on the pocket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
They even saw her at one point look, she looked up and saw that she was on camera. And like, I guess her demeanor changed or whatever. But like, she was briskly walking back and forth through that lobby. Like, it wasn't like a speed walk. But you know, when you be walking and you don't want nobody to really know that you want to rush. Like, you're not trying to make a scene or whatever, but you want to rush and you gots to get scooting. But she definitely was walking with purpose. There we go. Walking with purpose. Yeah.
So she still doesn't know that they have all of this right. November 7th comes around and they really haven't bothered her all this time. But all of a sudden there's a press release and they're like, oh, you know, Natavia, Linda's old assistant is a thief. She's got this closed out case for identity theft and theft.
you know she's probably the person who killed her or whatever and the family has suspected natavia this whole time mind you and so natavia calls the cops she's like yo the reporters are outside of my house they're harassing me and like you need to come take care of this and the cops is like come talk to us natavia do they invite her lawyer no they do not so they sit down and they talk to her and by 6 a.m the next morning they had a confession
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So, now y'all remember, Linda was getting kind of sick, and she was growing really weaker. And, like, a lot of the things that normal people could do, she couldn't do. You know what I'm saying? And so...
They think maybe, you know, because she was bitchy, maybe she was taking this out on Natalia. Like, when you start to lose things that you know so well, you know what I'm saying? It pisses you the fuck off. Like, my grandmother had a stroke, and it makes it hard for her to, like, remember words. And I remember when it first happened, she'd be so angry. Like, I'm not stupid. Like, sis, you have a PhD. I know you're not stupid. You've had a stroke. Calm down.
Let's try and work through this. And so, like, it really, it's an ego thing. It gets in your head, you know. You're not what you used to be. And so, they think, like, she took it out a lot of times on Natavia. And this day in particular, she was being mad rude.
So it's kind of weird because when Natavia used to talk about her, she'd be like, oh, you know, we have a pretty good relationship, but she'd be treating other people disrespectfully, you know? Like, but she was like, she done flew my boyfriend out and, you know, she do this or whatever. She talk a little crazy, but I know how to handle her. That's how it's been thus far. As it is with your boss, like... And it's not been a long relationship. She started in July and she died in October. Linda died in October. So it's like...
You know, just a few months of this going on. Right, not long at all. But now that, you know, she went and talked to police and they was like, we got this footage. She was like, check this out. She was racially, physically, and verbally abusive to me. She didn't know how to talk and she was just...
and drunk all the time. And just this day, it just got out of control. I don't know what happened. She was like, but she's sitting there and she was like, get the fucking emails. How can you be so fucking slow? And she's got her yoga, her yoga stick in her hand. Linda has her yoga stick in her hand. For y'all that don't know what a yoga stick is, it's literally just a stick. Like if you see...
The best way that I can describe it, or one of two ways, both of them are ballet. The wooden ballet bars that you would do like your plies and hold on to, just the stick by itself. Or you can think of it as if you're doing ballet and that dance teacher that's really mean has the stick that straightens out your back and taps the back of your leg. So is it solid or is it hollow? Oh, it's solid. It's a solid wooden long cylinder. Okay. Okay.
So this is a four pound strength building yoga stick and she's waving it at her, right? Natavia is like, I'm doing my best. I'm trying to get these goddamn emails out to her. This is tripping. And Natavia says she's blowing weed in her face. And like, you know, Natavia is pregnant. She's like, I don't really appreciate all of that. And Natavia,
Uh, she says, then Linda's like, what do you want for lunch? I'll buy you lunch. And she's like, I guess she trying to like make amends or whatever. But at this point, I don't want you to buy me lunch. So Natavia is like, I'll buy myself lunch. I got my own money, right? Natavia says, Linda says, black people don't have any money. Save your money and I'll buy you lunch.
And Natavia says this was just it for her. And she just snapped. She said she grabbed that yoga bar from her and she hit her upside the head with it like six or seven times. Now, she says like six or seven times, but what's it called? Well, she says that she just wasn't herself. So it's very, it's not like you're counting your punches. You know what I'm saying? You're not counting your licks. No, you're not counting your licks. But she says six or seven times.
Linda was hit two dozen times. Six or seven and two dozen are significantly different numbers. She saw red. She don't know what happened, I guess. So she's like, once she realized what she'd done, she was immediately sorry, according to her confession. So what did her sorry ass do next? She put a cup...
She put her coat over Linda's head. She cleaned up what she could in a crime scene, which is when y'all see her coming out through the surveillance camera with a bag. And she takes Linda's phone with her. When she returns, she no longer has this bag. The yoga bar is gone. She's received calls on Linda's phone and has taken messages. Hey, can we talk to Linda? One of her good friends was like, it's my birthday. Want to have dinner? She was like, yeah, Linda's busy doing shit right now. I'll tell her that you called and maybe she'll meet with you later.
And I will be damned, friend, if I call your phone and your assistant answers the phone and tells me that you are out. And I'm like, okay, cool. Tell her to call me back. And I find out that you are not out. In fact, you are in and dead. Take me, lock me up. I can't see myself without a phone on me. Like, I feel like if I had an assistant who had a phone, you would just call my other number and get in touch with me directly, you know? Because, what? Yeah.
Um, but on top of all this, she also found some time to help herself to $800 out of Linda's bank account. So she stopped at the ATM, put her car in her pen and took out some cash, went back to the place. Right. So when she gets back, you know, that's when she gets the call from Linda's daughter, you know, so she knows she needs to get moving because this is on the way. Mm hmm.
She leaves a note on Linda's desk. She's like, hey, Linda, gone for the day. You're still out. Let me know, whatever. Then she calls Linda and leaves her a voicemail.
Hey, Linda, it's Miss Avia. I just wanted to let you know that I'm leaving work at 5.30. Hopefully the walk in the park was actually good. I left everything upstairs at the door and Seymour called. He said just give him a call back if he had a question to ask you. And I hope that the showing goes well with Ursula. And I will see you tomorrow. So if you get this before 5.30, you can just call me. If not, talk to you later. Bye. Bye.
so after that some time passes and she texts her friend or her friend is texting her but in her messages she was like girl i am at the house about to go to sleep y'all police ran the uh location of where that text was sent from and she was out by a river not about to go to sleep she tried it though they
She did. I just, I want y'all to realize that you can't, you can't cover your tracks with text messages from the feds. Like you can cover your tracks and text messages from your nigga. Like it's not the same. You're not working on the same way. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So the police believe that this is the river where she dumped the bloody cargo pants and the yoga bar because they never found either one of those, which smart because back when we did Hannah Mary tabs, they dumped that gun and, and Quenetta, the torso.
Yeah, but also, Quenetta, too, they dumped it in a lake or a pond. That's a still body of water. And they dug that shit up and they found it. She put this in a river. This is gonna keep going. You gots to be smart. On November 9th, 2007.
Natavia was arrested for Linda's murder. Despite the confession you all just heard and Natavia's arraignment, she pled not guilty to the charges of second degree murder. This surprised everyone since she literally confessed and she signed an affidavit saying that everything she said was true. But now Natavia said that her confession was not true and it was coerced by the detectives.
she and her lawyers claimed that she was exhausted after being questioned for six hours straight and said that she just wanted to give them whatever they wanted to hear so that they could just leave her alone because she just wanted to finish the interview. And so she just decided to give them what they wanted. And now...
Since she is officially pled not guilty, the prosecutors have to get ready to go to trial.
Now that the prosecution has to work to try to get a guilty verdict, they start looking into Natavia's background. They're looking for anything in her past that would explain to her jury why she would kill. You know, and it turns out there absolutely was something for them to find. Now, we brought it up before. It turns out at some point in Natavia's life, she was living down there in Norfolk, Norfolk, Virginia. Shout out to Norfolk State.
And while she was there, she was working at Calvary Christian Church. And while she was working at the church, she embezzled about $3,000. Not from the church, Lord. Yeah, she done stole from the church, Lord. You gone good. Listen, that is bad juju. Fuck parole and not parole. You going to hell. Listen, you can't be not stealing from the Lord. Right.
So at some point, also in her past, she worked at Planned Parenthood. And while she was working at Planned Parenthood, she was stealing thousands of dollars by buying items on the Planned Parenthood company credit card and then returning the items for cash. Girl. Yes. That's why niggas are changing their return policy. Yes.
yes they now you have to bring in your id and they keep track of how many times you return shit and you if you return shit one too many times you're not allowed to buy shit no more this is not all of her little scams so then one of her high school friends and this girl that was also her roommate in brooklyn same person they came for it and said that natalia was stealing her identity and was opening up fraudulent accounts in her name and then she said that she comes fucking with my credit and you're supposed to be my friend
Come on now. Because you're my friend and you're fucking with my credit? Girl. Because I know your ass not going to pay them goddamn bills because you out here stealing other people's money. You out here stealing, stealing. But here's the thing. And so when her friend confronted Natavia because she wasn't going to take that shit lying down, Natavia was like, oh, girl. She was super dismissive about it. And it's like, no, like, you fucked up. Now what you're not going to do is be wrong and act like it's no big deal. Right. Like, if you're wrong, be wrong. You know? Right.
We can get past this as friends. I mean, maybe not because how bad did you fuck up my credit? But what we're not going to do on top of that is act like I'm fucking dumb. Right. And that's for you to even have access to the information to steal my identity. There had to have been some level of trust. And you have clearly broken it and multiple times. But girl, the hot antics not done. So.
This habit of stealing did not end when she left parenthood or left the church and came to work for Linda. So according to this podcast that we listened to about this case called Red Collar, prosecutors claim that Natavia opened up two American Express cards in Linda's name and forged like a $4,000 check to the Boys and Girls Club so that she can get tickets to the premiere of American Gangster.
I just feel like Linda could have got tickets to American Gangster. Right. Because when I was I was like I said, I was interning in New York at the top of the year of top of last year. And I didn't have to beg, borrow or steal for Broadway tickets like they got them abundantly and were like, here, take the Broadway tickets. So I'm pretty sure that Linda Stein already had a ticket to American Gangster.
Or if she didn't, knew how to get one. But anyways, anyways, this is not all that she's done. If that wasn't enough already, when investigators searched Linda's apartment, because of course they searched her apartment high and low looking for any type of evidence, they of course looked at Natavia's desk. And at Natavia's desk in Linda's house, they found copies of Linda's driver's license, but instead of the picture being Linda...
The picture was of Natavia's mother, Lottie. So Natavia was stealing money from Linda by opening up these fraudulent accounts. And in order to get that money, she made her mama a fake ID to go and pick up all the money that was needed. So you had your mama in on the scam. Clearly your mom was okay with it, I guess. So it was rumored that she stole money.
About $30,000. Do you know some people are reporting it's closer to $60,000? Some people are reporting that. But here's the thing. Like you just said, what was it? A two, three month relationship? She started in July. July, August, September, October 4th. Four months? Yes.
That's a lot of money. So she sold that money. And not even for a whole month. And then they found out that about $10,000 of that money ended up in Miss Lottie's account. And that money that she stole from Linda was how they were paying for these lawyers and these court fees. So you are using, you murdered this woman and then stole her money to pay for you. To defend yourself. To get away, to defend yourself against her murder. Yes.
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rocketmoney.com slash sisters so they're in the middle of the trial right and natavia tries to fire her lawyer and request a new one she stated that she was unhappy with the counsel she was receiving and was unhappy with the current strategy that was entered in court she no longer wanted counsel from the defender service of harlem and she wanted her lawyer to be paul brenner not she got one picked out though the judge denied her request for new counsel
Paul Brenner was a young lawyer and was not prepared to take on such a high-profile and complex case. Isn't that her choice, though? If she wants to shoot her in the foot, isn't that her right? It is very much her choice. And I guess maybe the judge was just trying to be... I guess that's the judge's call.
Because the judge is supposed to be fair at all times or whatever. That's what they're supposed to do. He's like, let me save you from yourself. This nigga's not ready. Because it kind of reminds me of Tiffany Moss. It's like, are you sure? Right. You don't want nobody else. And even when she was like by myself, he was like, listen, so these are at least going to be your support counsel and you can ask them for questions. Right. So that's it.
So when this happened, her supporters and the audience erupted with protest. But this was not the first or the last time that Natavia's mom and them was acting up in court. They'd been wiling in this courtroom the whole time, yelling at the lawyers, the jury, and the judge. At one point, her stepdaddy was taken out of court in handcuffs and charged with contempt of court. The contempt charges were eventually dropped, and after the family did all that hooting and hollering, the judge said, "'Fine.'"
Paul Brenner can take over this case in the middle of the trial. And Paul promised the family that he would be able to get the case overturned. Yeah, so they put all their trust in him. Aren't you not supposed to promise an outcome? I do not know the ethics of lawyerhood, but I would be really fucking pissed off if...
They'd be like, I'm not going to tell you I can. I'm going to tell you that I'm pretty sure I can and I will work my hardest to do so. I would be like at the end of the day, this person has all the decision that you promise you're going to get some shit done. And I'm sitting down. Right. Yeah.
Right. Though the cargo pants that Natavia was wearing, nor the yoga stick was ever found, the prosecution still had a very strong trial. You know what I'm saying? They had video footage of her walking in and out of the building. They kind of had a motive. And they were trying to get Natavia as much time behind bars as she could get. The coroner, Dr. Michael Sloan, testified in court that Linda was hit as little as 24 times. So she said that it could have been up to 50 times.
But it was as little as 24 times. So like was getting the shit. At least. Right. Also the coroner reported that there were no defensive wounds on Linda's body. Basically that first hit it, how it hit her must've either instantly blacked her out or
or paralyzed her or made her unconscious. She was a weak woman already. Right. But she, and she was already, she could barely brush and wash her hair. So you think she can fight you off? Right. So after that first hit, she was pretty much either unconscious or paralyzed from that first hit throughout the end of the attack. So it was brutal. And they said that at some point it seemed as if Natavia was standing on her back while hitting her. And,
But she said that it wasn't confirmed. It just seemed that way just because of how of just the angle of the hits of the wounds. I don't even want to step on a cockroach and hear that crunch, let alone hear bones cracking. I just couldn't. Oh, my God. I love the crunch of a cockroach being squished. Do you? Oh, my God. That's the worst part. Like, I will get rid of it, but I will not step on it because it's so cringy.
Oh, talk about I love it. Yeah. It's totally different crunch than like stepping on leaves. Like I'll step on anything with like an exo cell, anything with like an exoskeleton. I really like beetles, so I don't really be out here killing beetles, but I have stepped on one a time or two and same thing. Yeah, I do. Like I enjoy beetles quite a lot.
Okay, so on Wednesday, June 16, 2010, a jury found Natavia guilty of second-degree murder, three counts of grand larceny in a third degree, which is unlawfully taking someone's property, two counts of identity theft in the first degree, six counts of petty larceny, and three counts of forgery in the second degree. Six counts of grand larceny in a fourth degree, and she was sentenced to 32 years to life.
And she's still maintaining her innocence, you guys. She's still saying that she didn't do it. She says that she wasn't granted a fair trial. And I guess the only thing that I could say that wasn't fair about it was the fact that she wanted to change lawyers and couldn't. And they didn't really talk about what the jury pool looked like. But she ended up getting it anyways.
Right. She ended up getting it anyways, but after her folks acted a fucking fool in the courtroom and they said that her parents, like her family. Did he win? Did he deliver on his promise? No, he did not. Or was he too young and inexperienced, like the judge said? He definitely, I don't know, but they said that her family was sending threatening letters to
to the prosecutors like they were really kind of harassing them like no court you can tell you can tell that she come from don't know how to act because the ten thousand dollars was sitting in the bank account if i put ten thousand dollars in my mom's bank account she for sure wants to know where that money came from i think lottie knew okay lottie has never been charged so she comes from
Exactly. So she comes from that being okay and that being acceptable. So I have no doubt in my mind that they went in there and showed their ass or whatever. They absolutely did. And like I said, Lottie has not been charged with a crime, which is like baffling to me. No, she didn't murder her, but you are definitely in on the whole larceny, stealing, thievery, forgery. Or is she going to say her daughter set her up? She was going harder for her kid.
than uh then uh uh lorenzen's lorenzen mama harder than lorenzen mama okay it was shouting in the court way more than lorenzen okay at least deborah sat down when she started shouting they said all right she said i'm gonna be quiet yeah natavia's family said no we no we ain't gonna shut up no okay that's our story friend
Yeah. Short and sweet. Short, sweet, and to the point, y'all. Tazzy is out of town. Tazzy's out of the country. So we gave y'all a short, short sweet. She outside. I gave y'all something. She outside. All right, y'all. It is time for. Well, I'm not black. I'm OG. I ain't do it. But if I did, this is how I would have got away with it. You want to go first, friend, or you want me to go?
You go first. Okay. I told you guys I write these down. Okay. So. Yeah, I know. I've got two things for you, girl. Okay. I didn't do it. But if I did, number one, why would you have the ID of your boss with your mom's picture on it at your desk in the home of your boss? Why? Why?
Yeah. First of all, even if you weren't... Even if you were just stealing from her... Or she should have cleaned up her shit when she was finished. Exactly. That's... You doing real... Real... You forging documents, girl. Do that shit at your house. In your... And I understand... With the shredder right next to the disc. Right. You need to go to Kinko's or to Office Max or to Print Copy and you need to do that shit on your own. Don't do that shit at her house. I understand she probably has the good printer, but you can't do it there. And why would you... Because...
I'm sure that she wasn't even thinking about that when she was cleaning up the mess. But, like, you should have been thinking about that when you were doing it. You should have never had any of your... Always clean your tracks. What? What? And here's the other thing. She talks about...
linda kind of being rude and she says that linda was smoking weed but when they really got heated like linda intentionally blew it in her face because you guys heard it in the confession she's like she blew it and my mouth was open and it kind of like choked me or whatever and so i would have said yeah i did it but it was self-defense she blew smoke right into my lungs and
And I have a kid. Attempted murder. She was trying to kill me. So here's the problem with that, right? That they didn't find weed in her bloodstream. I know. They did a tox cream on her and there was no weed in her system. But... My detective test determines that was a lie. I don't know. I really find that hard to believe because, you know, coroner reports, you know, anybody can get paid off. Especially because all of these articles were like, look, she smoked weed. They did say that she smoked, but they said she smoked respectfully and by herself.
But I don't... Her having this persona as a bitch, I don't think that's so far-fetched. And weed is in your system for 30 days. Right. So you're telling me that there was no weed in her system? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't... I definitely think that that part might have been tweaked. And I didn't hear anything about alcohol in her system, but it said...
she was an aa even though she was talking shit about aa but she did swear off vodka or something like that but like those are the things that i would have done i would have either been like it was self-defense she was trying to kill me and my baby or and for sure girl i don't even know why the fuck you had those ids at your desk like you could have at least gotten charged with murder and not with all of these other crimes girl like come on okay i didn't do it but if i did now i feel that
I have found myself in a similar situation to Natavia a couple of years ago when I was working. I had a boss who I really felt was going to, you know, show me the ropes and move me through the system. And he definitely took me under his wing, but he was definitely an asshole. He was definitely a Trump supporter. And it was like...
One day it's cool jokes and fun. And then one day it's cussing each other the fuck out because you tripping, you know? Right. Yeah. But, you know, still trying to get my job done. And then it end up coming to a head. But...
Play it cool because what you need to do is keep receipts of all this foul shit that's going on. Recordings, text messages, phone calls, voicemails. Keep all that shit. Try and stop having your conversations over the phone. And if you do, that's their trick. They have them conversations over the phone because nobody's recording phone calls.
And so there's no proof that you said it. Emails, text message, get all that shit and take it to fucking take it to fucking EEOC and have her write you a fat ass check for having a hostile work environment. And then you wouldn't have to steal from her because she'd just be ordered to write you this fat ass check because you don't know how to treat people. They average they pay out 20,000.
That would have been so nice. I guess $20,000 ain't shit when you're trying to get $60,000. But you got to just take... When you're scamming, girl... If she could have got her to hit her one good time... Yes. Scamming is a marathon, not a sprint. You got to... It is. You've got to play it. You have to be able to cover yourself on the back end. It's long-term thinking.
Exactly. And I also had when I was in New York and I think New York is just one of those hustle and bustle places where everything is go, go, go. And people are generally really mean. Like I got into you remember when I got into my fight with a New Yorker on the subway? Yes. So it was so fucking funny with that white woman.
Yes. I might put the clip. Maybe I'll put the clip in just so people can see. Because it's my country ass and a New Yorker. New Yorker's like, fuck you. Fuck your mother. And I'm like, ma'am. Oh my God, ma'am.
Anyways, if I find it, I'll put it in. Anyways, so when I was working, I was working at this very like top company in my field. And when I was working there, I loved it. And I wasn't, I knew the heads of the company, but there were a lot of smaller associates, directors within the company that I was still trying to get to learn. It was my first week.
And one of the jobs that we had to do, whoever was getting ready for the next, if they had like an event the next day or a meeting the next day, you go around and say, okay, your meetings at this time. What are all the things that you need in the room? What do you require? Because everybody requires different things. And so I went up to the wrong person.
And I asked her, I was like, oh, you're so-and-so or I don't remember her. I don't remember her name, but I was like, oh, you're Lisa. And she's like, no, I'm Carol. If you don't want to know my name and you don't want to do it and you can just leave. And I like had to just, I literally turned around with the clipboard. I was, it was six of us. It was eight in,
interns two of us were black I turned around with the clipboard handed it to the other girl and the one other black girl she just looked because she knew that I was about to go the fuck off but I'm like okay I can't go off this is an opportunity that can make or break your career these are the times when you have to walk away but like also after that moment she avoided me and I avoided her we didn't really work in the same department but I feel like she knew she did me wrong and
And everybody else looked at her like she was fucking crazy for talking to me like that. And y'all really need to... People that are higher up, like people that are in these internships or in these entry-level positions, we're coming to be a sponge. We're not coming to trample all over you. I want to learn. And people are going to fuck up. I don't understand why Kate... That was my first week. I'm from the South. And I have dreamed of moving to New York. And within my first week of New York, my...
supposedly awesome career, I get yelled at by this lady because I just literally... I went up to the wrong person. I'm so sorry. In this very small office, you know? That I'm on my first week. Like, my second day. So, it's like, you guys really need to learn how to treat these people that are going to be the future bosses. And...
They take that for granted. And so many people are like, well, I had to come like that. That's how I had to work my way up. And it's like... I don't understand why paying your dues involves being disrespected. I don't know why that's one and the same. And people think that just having... Being disres... Yeah. Like, you don't have to disrespect me for me to learn. Like, I'm okay. I am good when I'm wrong. Like, I know how to be wrong and say, oh, okay, I'll do it better. I know how to ask questions. I'm very teachable. But...
you just coming up and yelling at me when I made a mistake and didn't even give me the opportunity to not say, I'm the wrong person. You are talking to, I forgot the fake names I gave. You're talking to Cindy and you meant to be talking to Bethy Ann. So that's who you're looking for. I probably wouldn't have never made that mistake again out of just straight up embarrassment. And you wonder why you can't find people for these entry-level jobs because you treat them like shit and you pay them peanuts, right?
or nothing or or nothing like my internship like but nothing I was on loans paying paying off the debt currently with no job no career just the podcast but she did do some good things they never found the murder weapon yeah I think that that river was a good look and they never found her pants also the river was a good look yeah um what else did she do well
I think it was good for her to keep answering the phone calls and acting as if she's alive because she didn't alarm too many people. Nope. At first. Like, they weren't alarmed until they found the body. So she did good on that part. Definitely should have stopped by the house, sent a text message, maybe left her phone at home, went to the river, dumped it. And so it just looks like she's been there all night. But also in 2007, people were really not understanding anything.
technology the way that we understand it now because the early 2000s the early mid-2000s people just really we were learning google you know and we were learned it was a transitional internet age and people were learning about their internet footprint i think i learned about how much access people had to us exactly yeah and now that we when you know better you do better um but she was young and how was she 28 when this happened
she was 28 when she was when she was found guilty she was 26 yeah so she was the same that age that i was when i was in new york trying just trying to fucking figure it out anyways okay friend parole and a parole oh i'm gonna say no she's got a long history of don't act right not gonna act right her people ain't gonna make her act right
Yeah, I agree with you. Because also, she's still in prison acting up. She got written up not too long ago for throwing feces at the guards, right? Right. I was thinking about that when we were talking about it earlier because so many times I think about this case of her throwing feces, the last case where...
What's it called? It was flooding the toilet. All of these things that I don't think you ever would have done outside of prison. You know? I don't think that I would have thought...
I still don't think that I would have thought to put my shit in my hands and throw it at somebody. And you wonder why people act like that. But it's also like when you're, I don't even like getting something, not shit that I dropped in a toilet. Like it's a hard, am I just going to flush this? Will it flush? You know what I mean? So let alone getting my own shit. No, that's a hard no from you. I just want to know what, because so, so often for black women, they talk about what you did and,
And not what made you do it. What triggered you. Yeah. And it could be rebellion. I could be wrong. It could be just straight up rebellion. But I also like, I feel like these extreme things such as flooding your cell or throwing feces is something that is showing that there is a deeper level of something wrong within that prison. You know, there's some. Yeah. I'm not if I'm getting my hot, my three hots in a cot.
I have no reason to throw, and treat it respectfully. I have no reason to throw pieces at you. Right, that's the part right there. That's it. It's like once you're in prison, you've like become less of a person. You know, like how slaves are three-fifths of a person. It's like prisoners are like four-fifths. Yeah. Almost. And when you get free, what do people think about letting you be a whole person? Yeah. Put you on a trial notice and see. We're going to let you go back to working for, I don't know,
Two cents a day. Yeah. And then tell you you're lazy for not working hard. Yeah. All right. That's all I got, friend. That's all I got, too. Cool. Let's read some reviews. Oh, yeah.
Alright you guys, before we read your reviews, we have some very important announcements to make. We have told you before, we warned y'all so don't be coming at us crazy. The logo is about to change. The official Sissusukill logo is about to change. And we have some amazing artists that have sent us these beautiful, beautiful, beautiful pieces of artwork. Tassie and I are getting together as soon as we're done recording this episode and we're picking our top five out of all of the submissions. Yes.
And from there, guess who gets to pick? You all do. You all will get to pick what is going to be the next logo of Sisters Who Kill. Now, these are all original works by all of the artists. We got some really dope-ass artists that are going to show you some of their amazing work. And so everybody check out the Instagram, the TikTok, the Twitter. I don't know. It's going to be everywhere so that you can vote and tell it.
And tell us what logo you want to be the new official artwork of Sisters Who Kill podcast. You guys will see it. It's going to be amazing. All right, on to these reviews. You can go first because I haven't picked one out. I absolutely love this podcast. They go over so many crimes that I've never heard of. The hosts are phenomenal and bring so much life to the story. I'm most impressed with how the hosts are doing.
I'm most impressed with how the hosts talk about all the social political issues surrounding each case. It doesn't matter where it is or who it's happening to. If there's an injustice, these ladies are calling it out. Would highly recommend listening. Thanks, sis. Yay. I think everybody should be treated with something. You know, like if we're all going to have this basic level of human rights, then let's all have this basic level of human rights. Exactly. We're not going to pick and choose who gets them. Right. Right.
All right, this is from P Bellamy 16.
And it says, having a combo with my sisters. Listening to Marat and Tazzy are like listening to my sisters. I love the familiarity in their voices and I'm learning about these black murderesses and some of their unfortunate situations. I binge the series in a day or two and impatiently wait for those Friday releases. From the knowledge drop to their best friend chemistry to the amount of work they clearly goes into researching these cases. I appreciate it all and I am completely here for it. Sisters Who Kill is currently in the top
podcast that i recommend keep it up ladies yeah girl we be up all night hey we be all night i'm telling you did we even sleep last night no friend we did not sleep last night we were up up up but um that's the end of our episode oh my god look look at us we did it again another week down again friend why am i looking at this and it says we have 16 episodes yeah
Six. Wow. We've been doing this for a minute. This is the most consistent thing I've done in a long time. You and I both. And you and I are very good at distracting each other to just not do anything. Really good.
really good at it. So it's definitely y'all support that's keeping us going. I promise y'all. So make sure that you guys keep in contact with us. We can, you can get in contact with us pretty much across any platform whatsoever. You can email us, um, just to say hi, to suggest cases, to maybe, you know, get an ad space for your business. And you can email us at sisters who kill podcast at gmail.com. You can follow us on, I don't know, um,
instagram where there'll be pictures and videos and all that great stuff about the case and that is sisters who kill pod tiktok is sisters who kill podcast if y'all want to be on twitter you know blow up tazzy spot that's sisters who kill on twitter join the discussion group join the discussion group and make sure that you answer the questions to get my group because i will delete them she will y'all be watching her do it okay okay all right that's it you got anything else friend
Talk to us. We talk back. Yes. I know I've been talking to y'all last week. Sorry. You know, sometimes we have lives. But I try and go back later and at least, like, love it or say thank you. Right, right. I appreciate all of y'all. All right, y'all. Peace. Bye. Bye. Bye.