The Tragedy of Shilie Turner
01:18:26 Share

It's summertime and it is officially self-care season. How are you taking care of yourself? Are you working out? Are you eating healthy using that sunscreen that you're supposed to use? Well, whether you're off to the pool, hiking, or traveling this summer, you can bring your microbiomes with you too. That's right.

Seeds DS01 Daily Symbiotic benefits your gut, skin, and heart health with just two capsules a day. I've been really trying to figure out my health journey. I've been telling you guys about this, especially since I'm 30. And one thing I've noticed is that my gut...

I have to make sure that this is all the way together. And Seeds DS01 Daily Symbiotic has been so great for me. Your body is an entire ecosystem and your gut is the central hub for various pathways through your body. And a healthy gut microbiome means benefits for digestion, skin health, heart health and immune system and so much more. And trust me, this is backed by science. A lot of science.

So support your gut this summer with Seeds DS01 Daily Symbiotic. Go to seed.com slash sisters and use code 25 sisters to get 25% off your first month. That's 25% off your first month of Seeds DS01 Daily Symbiotic at seed.com slash sisters code 25.

25 sisters. I love being outside. And when I mean being outside, I mean going to events.

concerts, baseball games, basketball games, anything that you can think of. I love being just in the mix. My family has a tradition of going to the Braves game every single year and I haven't missed a year yet. And this year buying tickets is going to be easier than ever with the Game Time app. I'm using the Game Time app to buy Father's Day Braves tickets for my cousin and for the rest of my family and we'll all get together. And the deals that I see for these seats are a

So much cheaper than they would have been going through any other app or the team website. I can customize my spot. They've got flash deals. And I am so excited about all the MLB games that I will be able to see this year because finally there's something in my budget. You can save up to 60% off when buying last minute tickets for sports, concerts,

comedy theaters, anything that you can get a ticket for. And trust me, it is the lowest price guaranteed. And you know that means a lot to me. And if you find a price that's lower, don't you worry your pretty little head. Game Time will credit you 110% of the difference. Now that is a guarantee that I can work for.

So take the guesswork of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use the code SISTAS to get $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem with the code SISTAS to get $20 off. Download the GameTime app today. Last minute tickets, lowest price, guaranteed. What's going on, everybody? I'm Marah. And I'm Tez.

And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. Y'all, the relationship between a mother and a daughter can be a beautiful thing. It also can be one of the most toxic relationships there ever were. ♪♪

If you're listening to this, you probably already know what I'm about to say. That today is the day for you to start your podcast. You have everything that you need. Your computer, a little microphone, and Spotify for podcasters. It is the all-in-one platform where you can host, edit, and record your podcast and distribute it everywhere. Where you're listening right now, you can have your podcast there. I promise, for real. And it's free. And you can make some money off of your podcast for free. For free.

free money. Free money is out there. Just go get it by starting your podcast today. Our players this week are Shelly Lachey-Harner, known by our friends as Shea or Shea-Shea. She's our victim. We have

Andrea McCall, Shelly's best friend, and Vivian King, Shelly's mother and our murderess. Shelly was born on March 15th, 1975 in Philadelphia, PA to Vivian King. Her dad wasn't in her life and it isn't mentioned much about him in their news article. Shelly did have an older sister, Trina, who was nine when she was born and had a sister named Clara who wasn't born for another 10 years. So like she's

Nine years apart from her oldest and ten years apart from her youngest. Really big age gaps between...

The children. When Clara was born, Shelly, she was pretty much the person that took care of her. She really took her on as, you know, her baby, the one that was making her meals, the one that was making sure her diaper was changed, the one that was teaching her the basic things. She was really stepping into that mom role for her younger sister, Clara. And the reason that she had to do this is because mom, Vivian, liked to drink.

not just like to drink, she loved to drink. She was known as a drunk. She was known to be mean and angry and a drunk. And it wasn't just in the house. Like people in the neighborhood would know her as a mean, angry drunk on the, on, on her stoop.

That was pretty much, I'm telling you, that's my vision of Vivian. Every time that we've, we've like gone over and talked about this case, like she's angry drunk. Because people were, we'll tell you about it later, but the people said so.

And when she was drunk, she would cuss out at the girls. She was so angry. She was very violent to them. And Shelly, she, of course, took care of her sister, but she also had something that she really, really, really, really loved. And that was running. She was obsessed with track and field. She was running. She started doing track and field at her church. You know how the churches be having the church leagues?

So she started at her church and it's something that she day and night was all about running, all about track and field. People knew her around the neighborhood to run everywhere, always training, always wanting to be the best. She wanted to go to the Olympics. She wanted to fulfill her dreams. And she knew that running was going to be the way that was going to take her out of the situation that she was in now. So, of course, Shelly had her best friend. Her best friend's name was Andrea McCall.

And they live directly across the street from each other. And they always have gone to school together. They've known each other forever. Like they were really the definition of best friends. And the high school that they went to together was William Penn High.

And of course, Shelly was on the track team there. There's this footage from Shelly being in a I think the footage is dated in 1990. And it's her coming in second place. And she's almost in second place. She's almost in second place. And at the very end, she kicks it in the high gear. She like zooms past against first place.

very you know how they talk they suck about like Serena Williams like you can sometimes like if you really watch her matches she'll be down for a little while but she always kicks it in the end and kicks you right in the ass so Shelly had that same type of strategy that's like I think that's winner mentality you don't give them all you can kick it kick him when they tired anyways

That's going to sound bad. You kick them when they're tired. Kick them while they're down. So Coach Hickey was the coach for the girls track team. And his whole team was stars, right? Like they was winning all the matches and shit. He had amazing runners, amazing jumpers. And they were the best girls track team in the city. And they didn't even have a track at day school.

You know, we do. South Tucker did. You know, I'm telling you, because when I was doing cross country, like we were running on the street and up random ass heels and random and whatever coach found for us to run up. That's what we were running on. But, you know, you can't you can't hold us back. So they were stars anyway. And he did. He trained them kind of just like that in the streets, on the sidewalks.

Just learn and run, drop, dodge obstacles, going up hills, building stamina. Like they need no fancy shit. We just want to use what we got and we're going to train. But almost that makes you better. Like, you know, you can do it in any condition. You can do it in the right condition, you know? Absolutely. Shelly ran track all four years of high school and won hella awards. Her room was full of them.

And during the start of her senior year in September of 1992, she was offered a full athletic ride to Clemson University in South Carolina for track and field. Shout out to you. Right, because that ain't no school, easy school to get into, not for no sports. So, you know, of course, Shelly is very happy. All her hard work is beginning to pay off. She's about to go to college for free. It doesn't snow in South Carolina like yesterday.

She she's about to enter the best years of her life. Right. Right. She's lit. She's excited. Another exciting thing that happened her senior year was she met Mrs. Sean Williams. He was a transfer student at William Penn High School. And he kind of caught her eye a little bit in the hallway. And next thing you know, the two started dating, you know.

So it's Sunday, January 17th, 1993. Everybody had just gotten back from winter break. School was back. And, you know, and Shelly tells her mom, hey, mom, I'm going over Andrea's house.

There is a dance tonight and I'm just going to go get ready over there. We're going to have a good time. Mom says, cool. She goes to Andrea's house, but she had absolutely no intentions of going to a party. There was no party. What she was going to do is to go get ready to go see Sean because of course her mother was not going to approve of, you know, her and Sean hanging out. So when she shows up at her friend Andrea's house, she's wearing a lavender sweatsuit with a Malcolm X sweatshirt and just has like the big X on the front. And Andrea's like, girl,

What are you wearing? Thank God you came over here to get ready before you left. And that very much reminds me of me and Tazzy, because if y'all don't know us like that, but Tazzy has actual style and I do not. So listen, you got what works for you, friend.

Yeah, your closet. It does. Your closet always comes through. I mean, like, my head shots. Tassie was like, I think I might have something. I'm going for a date. She's like, I think I might have something that goes with that. She was like, sure, I could pull something out that matches that. That doesn't work. Like, for us that ain't got no style, it's always good to have a friend that has a shopping problem and good taste. Get you one. Yeah.

So Andrea's like, okay, girl, let me help you get your outfit together. And her dad has a leather jacket. She's like, oh, wear this leather jacket. It'll look really cute with your outfit. You know, trying to zhuzh up this lavender you came in to go see your man. And you're a whole senior in high school. You know what I'm saying? So when Shelly leaves Andrea's house to go see Sean, she's like, all right, girl, you know, I'm not going to be out late. You know how that goes. I have track in the morning. There's this really big meet that's happening the next day. So Shelly leaves.

So Shelly leaves. She goes to the bus stop. Remember, you know, we up north. They use the bus stop for everywhere. So don't get surprised how many times that they are at the bus and the times that they at the bus. So because we're in Philly. So it's like 830, nine o'clock. And Shelly makes her way to Sean's house. They hang out. They have a good time. We don't know what they did, but, you know, they was hanging out. Yeah.

And they were having such a good time that they lost track of time. And Shelly looks at the clock and she's like, oh shit, it's 1.30 in the morning. So Shelly panics. She's like, I gotta get home. My mom is gonna be pissed. She's gonna be so upset. And...

You know, once it's nighttime, especially like one o'clock in the morning, the buses only go certain routes. So Sean walks Shelly to the bus stop, watches her get on the bus. She gets on the bus and then she is dropped off at North 60th Street and West Girard Avenue. And this is about six blocks from Shelly's house. So she makes the truck home. When she makes it home, she finds Vivian drunk off cone liquor waiting on her ass.

Of course, her first thing she says is, where have you been? And where were you? And Shelly is trying to just, she knows how her mom is when she's drunk. She's trying to go in. She's just trying to get ready for bed. Shelly gets past her mom and Vivian is crying.

How dare you come in this house late? Who do you think you are? You think you grown? You think you can just run shit? And next thing you know, Vivian goes in her room and pulls out her gun. The two got into a verbal altercation. They're yelling. They're yelling back and forth. And suddenly...

Vivian shoots two warning shots in the air, both piercing the ceiling of the kitchen. Vivian is like, if you don't want to live here, if you don't want to abide by my rules, then you don't have to get your ass in the car and I'm taking you right down to the police station. Shelly's like, all right.

So they get into the car. Vivian's got her gun, of course. And they start heading towards the police station. They go towards the police station. They pass the police station. And Vivian decides to take them to Paramount Park. When they get to Paramount Park, they're walking around. Vivian has Shelly in a dark place. She pistol whoops Shelly. Shelly falls down. And next thing you know, Vivian shoots Shelly six times. She looks around. She sees a piece of tarp.

She lightly covers her with the tarp and a little bit of brush, gets in her car and goes back home. So it's Monday, January 18th, 1993. And Shelly's coach, Coach Hickey, and her teammates are at the track meet wondering where the hell Shelly is at, waiting for her to show. They know she's going to show because she always shows. She doesn't show. So Mr. Hickey immediately knows that something's wrong.

Because she would never do this. She would never let the team down like this. And not without a call, nothing. No, it's just not like Shelly, right? And then just last Friday, she ran 800 meter in two minutes and 15 seconds. And she was determined to beat that time at this specific meet. Like,

She had been working for this meet. No, we need to figure out where Shelly's at, right? So Mr. Hickey asks around. He's talking to the other coaches at the meet, the players, everybody. Nobody's seen or heard from Shelly, right? So Coach Hickey calls up the moms, like, hey, Vivian, you know...

I know I've never seen you at a track meet here before, but we can't seem to locate your daughter. Do you know where she's at? Do you know why she didn't make it? I just want to make sure that Shelly's all right. We're concerned. And, you know, as he's calling, he's got it in the back of her head. He's heard, like, little rumors and stuff about Shelly's life at home. And he remembers hearing Shelly tell people, you don't know what it's like there. But, you know, I think, like, with kids, it's kind of, is it really you don't know what it's like there? Or is it...

a teenage daughter and mom relationship, right? So... I mean, you know, like, as a person on the out... That's the hard thing about mandated reporters, you know? Those kids will just be upset and say some shit, but there's kids who will really be needing help and don't get it. So her mom, Vivian, her sisters, Trina, Clara, and...

Mr. Clarence I don't remember if we said who Mr. Clarence was but Mr. Clarence is Vivian's boyfriend that also lives in the house not her stepdaddy now I'm wondering if Clarence is Clara's daddy right who knows but you know niggas love naming their kid after them male or female um

So they're sitting at the house. They're waiting, twiddling their thumbs, wondering if Shelly's going to come back. And Vivian, she starts telling everybody that she's really concerned. Shelly started hanging around with the wrong crowd. And she's been coming back later and later. And so her not coming back at all, that's just so...

Um, it's so unlike her. Even though there was no sign of Shelly, you know, she was 17 years old. They didn't do anything for an entire 24 hours. The next morning, which was Tuesday, January 19th, 1993, um,

The Turner family wakes up and still Shelly is not there. So they're like, okay, it's time to call the police. The police send out a detective to the family to get more information about Shelly. Vivian tells the police officer, the detective exactly what happened, right? Her version of events. She said that Shelly left the house around 8 p.m. on the 17th to go to her best friend's house because they were supposed to go to some party together. And ever since she left for that party, she hasn't seen or heard from her since.

She describes Shelly. She's about 5'9", about 130 pounds, dark skin, black hair. The cops are like, okay, got the description, and they start investigating. So of course the first thing they do is hit a best friend. Now, when detectives knock on best friend's door, Andrea's like,

You know, I'm sure she's in this position. Like, do I tell the truth? Or, like... Yeah. It's been a full 24 hours, so now it's time to fess up to the police about best friend. Because, you know, you never...

I ain't gonna play about your luck now. I'm telling you, friend, if your location goes black and you don't answer, I'm gonna be like, all right, nigga, you got 24 hours. Listen, you better get in touch soon. Because, you know, like, I understand going dark. I do that, but you got 24 hours, nigga. And you need to give a warning before you go dark. Like, hey, I'm gonna be off the grid for a second. Hmm.

sometimes I just randomly get in a dark place and I go, no. But anyways, Andrea, of course, takes this extremely seriously. She is extremely concerned about her best friend. She too has not seen or heard from her in over 24 hours. And she tells the detectives, yes, Shelly did come over. They got ready and, and,

Shelly went to her boyfriend Sean's house. So police are like, great, a boyfriend. You know it's always the boyfriend, right? It's always the lover. So they go straight to Sean. Sean really was a good guy by all accounts and purposes as far as this tale is. I don't know him in real life, and you know niggas ain't shit, but...

In this story, he really was a good guy. Police didn't have any reason to move forward with him. He says that, you know, I dropped Shelly off at the bus stop. I walked her there around 1.32 o'clock in the morning. They found the bus driver who says, yes, Shelly did get on the bus and he walked her there and he stayed until we pulled off.

So very quickly, they ruled Sean out as a suspect. After talking to Shelly's friends, family, boyfriend, coach, everybody, they're like, where the fuck is this girl? We don't have any clues. So the police searched the six blocks that Shelly walked after getting off the bus, and they knew it was not a great area. The year before, there had been many houses that had became abandoned and turned into bando's and...

Drug arrest and girls have gone missing. And, you know, maybe Shelly just suffered that same fate. But nobody wanted to believe that. Right. Not Shelly. So days turn into weeks. There's still no sign of Shelly. Vivian, her mom, starts holding rallies and getting the community involved to get support to search for Shelly.

She's standing in the street with a bullhorn with volunteers around and, you know, proclaiming her love for her daughter. We have a guy to find, Shelly. Please bring my baby home, right? Andrea and Shelly's other friends were also leading search parties. They're out in the cold Philadelphia winter, searching every tunnel, every bando, every pathway. They've got missing person posters posted. They are looking everywhere. Yeah.

There's a rock. They lifting it up and looking under it. I mean, so the community even managed to get between $5,000 and $6,000 of rewarded money for anybody who had any information regarding Shelly's whereabouts.

So, of course, they started getting calls, tips, but nothing would pan out. Two more weeks go by. They're searching in the cold, snowy weather, and everyone's coming up empty-handed. There's no sign of Shelly. And it's almost like she disappeared without a trace. She just vanished off the face of the planet, right?

So the police go back to Vivian and they're like, is there anything that you may have left out? Like anything that you thought wasn't important that could be important? We're looking for any minor detail that you can give us. Did you did you find anything out while you've been out in the streets looking like we could use any kind of clue right now? Right.

So Vivian told the police that they should check out Coach Hickey, Shelly's track coach, because she thinks it's awfully weird how much time and attention he's been putting into her. That's low, but there have been coaches. There have. They were all at our high school. Yeah.

I remember, like, I would hang around the coaches because they would write me passes to get out of class. But, like, the more I started getting close to the coaches, my sister, who was two grades older than me, like, maybe my first, second week of high school, she was like, you gonna be cool with whoever? Not that one. Don't let me get you hanging around that one. Because he will try it. And I'm like, whoa. And has. And has. Yeah.

She also complained, you know, he was a cold man. He pushed the girls too hard. But Coach Hickey and even the community, other teammates, they were not backing that story up. Everybody loved Coach Hickey. A good coach is a strong coach.

And they gonna push you hard and work hard. And a good coach, like, majority of the team, you know, you got those few who complain, but the majority team ain't mad at it. They appreciate the work being put in, you know what I mean? So it's not like it's hard or cold. Like, yeah, we working out in the rain. That shit used to make me feel like a real athlete working in the rain. We got Rain or Shine, we out here, nigga.

Let's go. I love running in the rain. Love it. But, you know, when the coach was talking to the police, he was like, Shelly was the spirit of this team. Everyone looked up to her. They couldn't really find anything maybe pointing towards inappropriate behavior or being rough or disliked as a coach. But most importantly, he had an alibi and a solid one at that. The night of Shelly's disappearance, O'Keefe was at a party.

And people saw his ass. Yeah. So they was like, yep, it definitely could not have been you. So, you know, way to be out and seen when you needed to be out and seen. Um...

But while Coach Hickey had the coach, I mean, the officers there, he did make sure to mention Shelly's home life and how she often talked about how it was sad there. And, you know, she couldn't wait to leave. Or she hated living there and hated being there. And it was like, you know, I've been a coach for 20 years and I didn't see mothers and daughters fight. But he was like, there was just this sadness over Shelly that she carried with her. He was like, you know, I was proud of her for 20 years.

turning that into something and fueling that into into track and letting track be in her guiding way out and her her oasis kind of like her escape you know it turned her into a fierce competitor but it was definitely something going on there right so the police is like yeah okay we're back to no suspects

We have no leads anymore. And it's kind of getting a bit discouraging. So time and time passes and there's no sign of Shelly. Then one day, best friend Andrea walks out of her house. She looks across the street at her best friend's house, probably thinking, I wonder where my best friend is. And out of her best friend's door, she sees Mr. Clarence, that's not so stepdaddy, Vivian's boyfriend, walking out of the house.

And she does a little double tape because she looks over and that man is wearing the leather jacket, not just any leather jacket, the leather jacket that she let Shelly borrow, that she knows is her daddy's jacket that she let Shelly borrow the night that she went missing. And I'm sure you probably could have knocked her over with a feather at that point.

She goes straight to the investigator and she's like, tells them everything that happens. And police are like, that is extremely suspicious. And of course they're going to believe best friend. And they go and they get Clarence. They pick Clarence up. They ask Clarence to come on down to the station. You know, he's probably been through this a couple of times because the family is going through this right now. He goes down and they're like, um, where'd you get that jacket? Clarence is like, what? This jacket? Yeah.

They're like, yes, that jacket. He was like, uh, I... I'm a man. This my house. I saw a jacket. It fit me. I put it on him because it's cold as hell outside. And so the police are like, are you sure? And they're questioning him and they're questioning him. And he genuinely is like...

I don't know what to tell you. This jacket, I don't know if it has any correlation with her at all. I picked a jacket up and put it on because it was cold. It was right by the door. And they were like, can you tell us, can you tell us again what you were doing the night that Shelly went missing? He's like, sure. I deliver newspapers late at night. He was like, I'm usually up and out of the house around about 3.15. And I have a whole route.

check my clock in, clock out. He said, check my clock in, clock out. And so the timeline of his job that he was proven to have delivered the papers and this disappearance, it just didn't add up. So once again, investigators thought they had a lead, but again, they are stuck. So they decide to bring in a medium. Yes, like a psychic medium.

This medium's name is Valerie Morrison. And they were just trying to see if maybe she could help because the police were just that stuck. Now, there is an article from the U.S. Department of Justice office, and it's titled Psychics and Police Work. It was published in 1993, and it basically says...

Quote, the usefulness of psychics and police investigation is controversial, but psychics have but psychics have long been and will undoubtedly continue to be involved in unsolved criminal investigations, end quote. And like.

I've heard of cases more than a few times. You guys that listen to the show are crime junkies. So you've heard of cases more than a few times where psychics were used to try to help solve a case, whether they were helpful or not.

In Pennsylvania, actually, there were more than a thousand cases that had been solved by psychic mediums. Yeah, a thousand. Most psychics like to have articles from the person, maybe like, you know, hairbrush, trophies, track shoes, I don't know, and a photograph of the victim. And they like to visit the victim's home and the crime scene. They're just trying to get more of a sense of who that person is so that they can help solve cases. So the police are like, hey, can we get...

Valerie to come check out, you know, see what she sees. And Vivian's like, okay, sure. So first they're like, you know, leaning on that stepdad because he did have that jacket, you know, just make sure that we

We didn't miss anything over there. And Clarence, he starts showing pictures of Shelly and showing off all her trophies and awards and stuff. And then she's like, you know, I'd like to go upstairs. I'd like to go upstairs and see Shelly's bedroom. And so Vivian takes her there and everybody else stays downstairs, cops included. Right. So Valerie goes into Shelly's bedroom and she lays down on the bed.

And Vivian, she just starts crying. Somebody took my baby. And then Valerie says that she started to feel numb and tingling and like Shelly was inside of her. And she starts talking. My mother was very angry. I was very happy getting ready for bed. Mother said, where are you? I was shaking. I felt the house, but not alone. I was freezing. I was cold. It was snowing and snow on the ground. My feet was freezing. Y'all, this is Vivian.

This is Vivian speaking as if she is Shelly, if you don't know, if you haven't caught on. And she's like, my feet are freezing. I feel the ruffling of the trees. I was shivering, pleading, begging. Then darkness seemed falling. I see water. It's holy water. So Valerie's like, oh shit. So she reached out and she takes Vivian's arm.

And then she continues to speak as Shelly. She says, Mommy, tell them where you put me. She's like grabbing her arm. Mommy, tell me where, tell them where you put me. Mommy, tell them where you put me. And Vivian is like, holy shit. So she's like screaming and the cops are downstairs. They're like, what the heck's going on? What's happening? What's happening? And Vivian,

Vivian runs down the stairs. She's, like, stressed. She breathing heavy, all this shit. She said, I can't do this. I can't do this. I want you all to leave. You can't court order somebody to let a psychic in your home. So they just have to pack up and go. So Valerie and detectives leave. And when they get into the car, she says the mother's the killer. She killed the daughter. And Shelly is buried in Fairmount Park in a shallow grave near something religious. And there's water. And you'll find her with no jacket and no shoes.

And I think this is a very, very specific description that she's given. Like, she sounds like she knows what the fuck she's talking about. Very detailed. Right. But the issue is Fairmont Park is about 9,000 acres. So they're like, you're telling me it's in Fairmont Park. You're not really narrowing it down. We done already put a lot of manpower behind this. We can't order a search of the entire park.

based off of your psychic vision, it's just not going to fly. Right. It's still in police's eyes or like in the law's eyes, it's still technically an unreliable source. But if I was an unreliable source, why y'all call me? Yeah.

Because they want to take those clues and build on it unofficially until they get something officially. So Vivian continues after this whole incident. She continues holding rallies and search parties looking for her daughter. She's quoted in a newspaper saying, this is just a nightmare and I just can't wake up. Whenever I'm up, I pray and I ask God for strength to keep me up and give me courage and give me faith. He's the only one who can bring her back.

His eyes are the only eyes that see and know where she is. Why you lying on the Lord? I bet she did. I bet her ass did pray that prayer. And I bet God was looking down like, girl, she said, fix it, Jesus. Girl, the truth shall set you free. So 33 days had passed and still no sign of Shelly.

A lot of people were starting to lose faith. I mean, I'm sure that the momentum behind her, that being missing that long momentum is starting to die down. And suddenly on Saturday, February 20th, 1993, while Vivian, who was out that day at a rally with a bullhorn, screaming and yelling about finding my daughter. If you listen to the video, it's very, or if you watch the video, it's really, it just seems like she's very rehearsed.

um about how much she loves her she's probably practiced it a few times oh please if anybody if anybody is there please help and just so happens that same day in Fairmont Park a man was jogging with his dog and his dog just happens to not be on a leash probably a good trained dog or whatever and the dog just catches a scent and runs into the brush and the man is like yo pup

Scotty, come on. I don't know what the dog's name is. Yo, pup, come on. And the man follows the dog and sees a tarp. And he sees the tarp and outside of the tarp, it looks like blood. And the dude is like, yo, Scotty, come here. And then he discovers that underneath that tarp is a dead body.

He calls the police. The police arrive. They remove the tarp and they see an unrecognizable female in a lavender sweatsuit, no socks, no shoes, no jackets, several bullet wounds in her hands, face and chest.

At the scene, the body in the face was so badly mangled from the bullet wounds that she was actually really hard to identify. But they did know and they remembered that Shelly was wearing a lavender sweatsuit when she disappeared. So they immediately call Vivian in and they take her to the medical examiner's office and they try to give a positive ID of this body again.

And Vivian cries while she confirms that that is the body of her daughter, Shelly Turner. Now, Valerie, the psychic, the medium, she gets a call from the police. Just a little update call. And it turns out that Shelly's body was found about 100 yards away from this Catholic fountain. So a religious statue found.

that had water. Valerie then asked the detectives, well, where are her shoes and her jacket? And literally, like we said, and like she predicted, Shelly had no shoes and no jacket. Vivian, of course, is at the medical examiner's office crying. Oh, I forgot to tell y'all. Now, we called Valerie.

We did. She is still working. Don't start bombarding her phone unless you really have some serious inquiries. We called her and all she said to us was, honey, I do not want to talk about that. And she confirmed that she was the site. She was the medium that worked on this case. But she said she don't want to talk about it. Y'all don't go in there cutting a fool, trying to hit her line unless you're going to pay for her services. I'm assuming this is not an ad.

I just know how y'all niggas are. I mean, everything that Valerie said came to be true. And Vivian, of course, she is at the medical examiner's office just broken down. She is bawling. She has to be consoled by everybody. And...

you know, like everybody has been looking for her for a month now, a little over a month. This is the worst possible outcome. Like everybody was still thinking that just like, there are pretty bad outcomes that could possibly be the case before death, you know? And everybody was just like, Oh, she's probably being tortured, but at least maybe she's alive, you know? And Shelly, Fairmont park was a place that Shelly went to often. She ran there often. Like we said, she runs everywhere. So it's,

was wild to everybody that they missed it, that they missed her body. As I said, if this is her usual route, why are we not checking her usual spots? I can only assume that it was too far off and that people just didn't. What I think happened, if you want to know the truth, I think that Vivian knew exactly where the fuck she was, and that's why she was leading all the search parties, so that she could steer everybody in another direction. Mm-hmm.

That's what I think she did. The autopsy happened on Sunday, February 21st, 1993. And the medical examiner had his hands full, to say the least, while he was trying to figure out the cause of death. And after completing the autopsy, the medical examiner reports read that the cause of death was blunt force trauma to the right side of the head and six bullet wounds in the head, face, left hand, and chest.

He said that she was shot with a .38 caliber Taurus gun. There was no blood other than Shelly's, so no other DNA found on her, no hairs, no fiber, no identifying markers of who this person could have been that murdered her. Shelly's funeral was held, you know, of course, towards the end of February. We don't have a specific date, but she was found on the 21st, and February is a short month, so...

In about a week, she had her funeral, right? It was just very sad. Like, you know, she was the city hero. She was the one that was going to, you know, make the city proud. Put them on the map. Yeah. Yeah. So people definitely came out and showed their support.

Reverend Albert Campbell was the family pastor and he presided over the funeral. And it was just so much grief in the room. Track coaches came from all over, like ones who had scouted her, ones who have coached her, ones who admired her. Just everybody was up there showing up for her. Her friends, other moms, just everybody.

It was standing room only at Mount Carmel Baptist Church. Of course, it's named Mount Carmel. Of course. Vivian sat behind the casket in the pulpit and she wore all black with a black veil. Now, during the funeral, Andrea, she sits in the back of the church and she's just kind of taking it all in, looking at everybody. And she's like, everybody is just, you know, grieving and sad. And her mom is kind of

put together for the situation. Like, she's greeting the guest and she's being, like, a good hostess and shit, which, I mean, I think when it's time to do a funeral, it's not always fair to judge how people act at the funeral because sometimes that shit don't sink in, you know? And sometimes they just be trying to get through it and it's just like...

OK, I've got to, you know, it's if that's your person, like whether it's your husband or your wife or your kids, you know, you're hosting that funeral. And yes, people should come and console you. But a lot of times I feel like people try and put on that face and thank everybody for coming and being there for them, you know? Yeah, I...

When my Nana passed, my cousin was her only daughter and had to literally the week leading up to the memorial. She was just like stone cold, you know, check the boxes, make sure everything's done, do all the work. And it wasn't until like almost a month later where she just like fell apart. Like you got to get through the shit first. Like you got to handle business first. Yeah.

Right, and then when you sit down, that's when you usually, like, really just... And she fell apart for a while, you know? Like, so...

Usually the funeral is not how you can judge somebody and their grieving process. But Vivian, you know, she was a little too smiley. And so Andrea was not really the only person to notice this either. And Andrea, she's really kind of bothered ever since she spotted her daddy's leather jacket because she's like, it's just something ain't right about it. Because I don't understand if you ain't seen her since she came to my house, how you got my jacket.

right because if the if she left with my house that means she had to have been in the house right she playing detective like we are like she gonna find her friend so rumors start to circulate and everybody is saying i heard this i heard that and you know y'all seen how vivian was at the funeral and you know she was always angry maybe she did do it it was so funny um

watching watching it uh buried alive on oxygen they're like and this is they said and the people of the town said they began to hear rumors and then they showed this audio clip of this lady she was like i don't want to say she did it but i have heard rumors i said way to back that point up right i heard rumors yeah we've heard rumors

um but yeah so eyes are now turned on to vivian so vivian was hearing rumors that she had was hearing these rumors around town it wasn't the first time that she heard it and so she decided to reach out to mary mason which was a radio tv personality in philly now mary mason she was a spearhead in the radio industry like this station that she worked at um

became the first in the nation, the first station in the nation to hire a full-time Black announcer to feature Black women as newscasters and hosts and to air an all-Black daily talk show. So Mary's show was called Mornings with Mary. And Mary had had Vivian on the show throughout this entire search time because the disappearance of Shelly was a huge story. After Shelly's body was found,

These rumors started coming up again that Vivian maybe was the one that, you know, took her daughter out. And so Vivian calls Mary. Vivian calls Mary. She's like, hey, girl, I want to come back on your show because, you know, people listen to the show and people are out here talking crazy. I just want to be able to clear my name.

She called Mary at six o'clock in the day of morning. And initially when she was on the show, she was saying, you know, I thought that maybe she ran away. I have no idea. She's like, I thought that she ran away, but at this point I believe she's dead. I just want to know where she is. Like, I want that body, you know, she's like begging for it. So once she comes back on the show after, um,

once she comes back on the show, she calls, she has to be back on the show. And this is March 4th of 1993. And when she gets on the show, it's a little tense. She's on the show for about 40 minutes and,

And of course, she denies killing her daughter the entire time. She offers up a theory of how she thinks that Shelly died, because of course, they're going to ask you, well, what do you think happened? And she said that, you know, Shelly started getting around with the wrong crowd. And she was hanging out with this other girl that was in West Philly. And she was starting to get into drugs. She was starting, apparently, this friend that Shelly was hanging out with was drug dealing.

And she thinks that, you know, the streets is rough out there in Philly and maybe somebody put a hit out on Shelly because she was just hanging out with the wrong crowd.

No, her mom said that maybe they put a hit out on the little drug girl that Shelly was hanging out with, but since the two were hanging out so much, they killed Shelly instead of the girl. Mary's like, okay, okay. A good host keeps asking questions because they want you to keep talking, and Vivian is just taking this time to make up a story. So during a break when things weren't being recorded, Mary asked Vivian about her daughter being killed and, you know, what the median said, and...

And Vivian's like describing how Shelly would have looked in a cold, dark field. And she's like, Shelly's teeth were glistening, pearly whites in the moonlight. And she talked about how like her hands came up to cover her face when she was shot and

And Mary's like, oh, girl, this is too much. Like, she stopped the interview. I'm not really sure about this fact. Well, I don't know if she stopped the interview, but I know it was when they weren't recording. Right. Or she said she asked her to leave the interview. So, I don't know. Me, I'm just thinking as a talk show host, wouldn't you want to get all the details? You would ask somebody to leave?

She started feeling uncomfortable. She started feeling like, I think you're a murderer. Yeah, so. I'm going to need you not in this confined space with me. So she was like, all right, well, you know, show's over. You can go. And when she left, Mary picks up the phone and she calls the cops. She's like, yo, this shit was weird. This girl knows something. And the cops are like, wow, well, guess who else just called us? Vivian called.

And she's like, oh, I got to tell you guys some extra details that I just remembered. She's like, you know, I have more things to share with you. So they set up an interview for Friday, March 6th. So in this interview, Vivian goes to the police station. She walks into the interrogation room. She was like, I'm sick of this. I'm sick of the rumors. I'm sick of the reporters. Everybody's trying to tell me I killed my daughter. No, no. What I got to do to get everybody to stop saying that? And it was like, it's like polygraph test.

She was like, you know what? Hook me up. I'll take the test because I'm sick of it. She takes the test. She fails the test. They're like, so you're lying. You got something else you want to tell us, girl? So let's hear the real story of what's going on. So Vivian's like, all right, I'll tell you. This is what really happened. And so she starts telling the police. She's like, listen, listen.

I got an alcohol problem. Me and booze, we're BFFs. And listen, I know, I know that I have an alcohol problem and I need help with this alcohol problem. I will black out. And sometimes, you know, when I black out, I just, it starts coming back to me in pieces. So I've been piecing together everything that's happening. So what I kind of sort of remember is that I was in the, I was downstairs in the kitchen

I was getting some food and it was like three o'clock in the morning. Shelly comes home. At first she goes upstairs and I thought that, you know, maybe she'd gone to the bathroom or something. And then she came downstairs and I started to, you know, ask her where the hell she was coming from at three o'clock in the fucking morning.

Because who going to walk in my house at 3 o'clock in the fucking morning? She told me she was tired of me getting on her case. By this time, I was standing by the counter, right? And she grabbed me. She's like, she grabbed me by the chest and she hit me. She hit me. And so I grabbed her and I turned her like, I turned her like she was towards the kitchen sink, like your gut on the kitchen sink. And then she grabbed the knife and she was like,

I'm tired of you always getting on me. Nothing I do ever satisfies you. And I asked her what the fuck she was going to do with that knife. And I don't remember what she said. I don't remember what she said, but I ran upstairs. She followed me up there. And so she ran upstairs after me. I went in my bedroom and underneath my mattress, I got a .25 caliber. You know, I got a gun. She came towards me. So I hit her in the face with a gun. I pistol whipped her right there in the house.

And I told her, I told her right then and there, you're going to have to get your shit and you're going to have to get the fuck out. I went to the drawer because, you know, the clip wasn't in the gun. So I went to the drawer and I got the clip for the gun. I put it in my pocket. I took her ass downstairs and I was told her I was taking her to the police station because

Because she wanted to be so bad. She wanted to be out this house. And that's where she was going to go. I drove. I drove by it. But I didn't stop. We were arguing. She was crying. She was telling me how she hated me. Shelly's like, I fucking hate you. I hate you. And Vivian's like, I hate you too, Jodi. So she says, so Vivian says that she goes, she takes her to the park.

She takes Shelly to the park and they just start walking and they're still arguing. They walk through this like brush area. And remember, Vivian has a gun on her.

Shelly picks, she says that Shelly picks up a bottle and tries to swing and hit Vivian. And so Vivian takes out her gun and pistol whips Shelly again. After she hits Shelly, Shelly is on the ground. And she says she's laying there with one hand up kind of by her face, you know, trying to like be defensive. She's like, and then I shot her. She's like, and I shot her three times.

And she was like, I know, I know the medical examiner said, told me that she was shot six times, but I only remember shooting her three times. And then when after that, I got home, I took off my pants. I put the gun back out of the mattress, put the clip where it's supposed to be.

I went into the front room and then I went to sleep. The next morning, she didn't wake up until about seven in the morning when little Clara came in because little Clara, she's still young. She wanted to watch TV. She was like, so she watched TV and I went back to sleep. And she said she only slept for a little while. She called her friend and she was like, whew, I had a horrible nightmare last night. So she's saying she shot her and then she kept going?

like and then she went to bed like everything was fine yeah girl and it woke up and thought it was a dream yeah that's what i just said yeah y'all all heard it right she tells the police that she was like oh i told her i had a bad dream and she's like you know i was on that corn liquor she laughs she's like i'm she laughs and the police are like bitch are you laughing the investigators are shocked they're like she really did it she she really killed her child

But also, like, you know, they already had this feeling that she did it. So, like, they're like, OK, we got the statement. We need a couple of other details to wrap this up because we gots to get you in jail, man. So they're like, so where's the gun? Not we gots to get you under arrest. We've got to shut this thing down. You've been on these streets long enough. Out here a month and a half assisting the investigation. You really just impeding it.

Mm-hmm. So the first question they ask is, where's the gun? And Vivian says, it's either under my mattress or in one of my drawers. They said, okay, well, did Shelly cut you with the knife in any way? She's like, no, I thought she was going to, but she didn't. It's like, okay, well, did you tell anybody else what happened to Shelly the night before? And she was like, or did you, they said, did you tell anybody else what happened to Shelly before tonight?

Nope. I never told nobody nothing. It was like, why did you shoot Shelly after she was already laying on the ground? She says, I just lost my mind. Yeah. I said, did you shoot your gun at Shelly in the house before you went to the park? She's like, I don't remember. I was in a rage. I'm seeing red. I don't know.

So then they say, okay, were y'all having problems beforehand? She says, yeah, because peep this, y'all. Shelly got pregnant. And she was like, this girl wasn't listening to me. I was trying to discipline her. It's just been months of just not listening. And she started doing anything she wanted, hanging out with girls and guys with beepers and drugs and shit. I need help. I hurt so bad because of all of this. It just hurt so bad. Where was my mind? I just went crazy. I couldn't even believe what I had done. And...

They were like, okay, well, that's enough. And they handcuffed her and they put her under arrest for the murder of her 17-year-old daughter. And she was arraigned on first-degree murder charges, which, you know, she was facing a death penalty if she was found guilty. And they held her there without bail. Streaming October 6th on Paramount+. First place I learned about death was a pet cemetery. Dead things buried in that land would come back.

There's something out. Something's wrong with Timmy. He needs time to adjust. That's not Timmy. Something's fucking driven him. Sometimes dead is better. Pet Sematary. Bloodlines. Rated R. Streaming only on Paramount+. Now that they got her out the way, Saturday, March 7th comes, and they search the house. And this is like the day after she got arrested.

And the town is just watching. And they was like, we see you, girl. I knew ever since that funeral someone, right? I knew. And I see now. So they're like, we just got to get some answers. So they're searching the house and they don't find any blood. They don't find any guns. And none of the other family members have any information to add to this.

Of course, because it's been well over a month. She got rid of that shit. Don't remember my ass. So they start in the kitchen and they look up at the ceiling and they immediately find two bullet holes and showcases in the ceiling and they're 38 caliber. Vivian did not shoot Shelly in the house. So I'm assuming they were just like, she fired off a couple of warning shots, which that's already screaming crazy because who the fuck shoots inside their house warning shots? Right. But like...

You know, and then I had Shelly dip in the cold of winter. No shoes, no real jacket or nothing like it. So they searched the rest of the house. They still cannot find the gun. They still cannot find blood or the leather jacket that they had seen Clarence wearing or or the leather jacket that Andrea had seen Clarence wearing.

They didn't look for Shelly's shoes that she was wearing. Not sure why, but that wasn't part of the things they were searching for. Mm-mm-mm-mm.

So remember, all of this happened on the confession on the 6th, which was a Friday. Saturday was the 7th, which was when they were checking the house. And Sunday, March 8th, is when Vivian got herself a lawyer. She lawyered up and her lawyer recants all of her statements.

Now, one reason was that the gun that was used to kill Vivian was a .38 caliber. Records show that Vivian owned a .25 caliber. Also, there was no physical evidence. Remember, they checked Shelly's body. There was no DNA that was out of the ordinary. There were also no eyewitnesses.

The only evidence that there was was this confession that she made. Of course, the lawyer, I mean, I guess that's a smart lawyer move, especially when they don't have anything on you. He was like, nah, nah, nah. You were can't all that shit. Vivian says that the only reason that she told the story was because she was just, she was being pressured by the police officer. She was like, they were yelling at me. They were accusing me. They told me that I was going to go to hell. Like, I just wanted it to stop. So I just said that I did it. I just made up this story. So,

Um, Vivian sits in jail until the fall of 1993, where she then goes to trial. Vivian King's trial took place at the James A. Bryan U.S. Courthouse in Philadelphia, PA. Nearly 300 people, mostly mothers and daughters, stood outside of the hallway of the hearing.

Clarence Jones, who, remember, is Vivian's man, he's like the first person ready to get into the courtroom to sit right behind his woman and support her, right? But then they tell him that he can't go into the courtroom because, oh, hold on, buddy. We're going to need you as a witness so you can't see what else is happening in these court proceedings. So he has to go until it's time for him to get on the stand. The first thing that happens in the court is that Vivian's defense attorney, his name was Jack O'Connor,

Mick Mahone asked the court to let Vivian change into the church clothes that he brought for her, you know, take her out of this, these shackles and, and all of these, the, this prison guard, put her, put her in the clothes that I brought for her, which I mean,

Okay. She wanted to look appropriate, but also like, I feel like that's what they do for trial. Like you don't have to do that. They won't let you do that for your appeals. They won't let you do that for anything after, but your initial trial, like everybody gets to wear at least the clothes that they get to choose from the prison, prison, uh, stockpile of dress up clothes. Yeah. But you put your best foot forward. Right. So if they bring it for you. Legitly.

The prosecution was led by assistant DA Judith Rubino, who did not want Vivian to change clothes. She wanted her to stay in her prison garb and her jail garb. And she said that she couldn't believe that Vivian was thinking about acting or even looking appropriate for anything. Like, you're on trial for killing your daughter. Why do you care about what you look like? But like we said, I feel like they at least—you allowed to look like somebody, right?

Or you should be allowed to look at somebody, at least for your trial. Like, you know, especially if you, you know, didn't do it. But, oh, the prosecution was ready for that ass. Prosecution asked for Vivian to be held without bond. She didn't, but she didn't have any prior. So they gave her a $200,000 bail. Of course, she couldn't afford to pay that. So she stayed until her trial anyway. The prosecution, they're like, we want her down for first degree murder. We want blood for blood, right? Right.

and they did their best to try and prove first degree. They didn't have any physical evidence, and Vivian recanted their confession, which was their real piece of evidence. So all they really had to work with was crime scene photos and testimony from Shelly's friends and family about, you know, talking about how great she was and their relationships and stuff. People talked about her smile, her laugh, her love for others, etc.

they talked about how she would train her teammates and, you know, you only as strong as your weakest link. We all gots to be great. And they talked about

Shelly's views of her mother and, like, how horrible she was to her. Even when all this shit was going on and it was like, okay, Vivian lost her daughter, nobody on the block went to go comfort Vivian because she's got a bad temper. She always trying to fight you. She come outside threatening you is crazy. So, like, we know that Vivian is crazy. So...

The detective, James Stardy, he gets on the stand and he reads Vivian's original confession. And he's talking about all the details. And then he combines that with what she told Mary Mason, because, you know, Mary Mason called and said it. The prosecution was like, this will really be the...

be the nail in the coffin for her. And the jury's really going to look at this and be like, no, no way. So fighting against, you know, the recanted confession and the lack of a weapon, they did have one little surprise up their sleeve. And that surprise name was Ezell Manuel. Now, Ezell Manuel was the owner of a .38 caliber Taurus gun

But he was also Vivian's little side piece. So they, you know, they kept it pretty casual. They hung out. They got drinks. They had sex at Ezell's house. And he was like, I'm not sure if the gun was stolen during a burglary or Vivian took it one night when she came over. Like, I don't know what happened to the gun, but I just know I don't have a gun right now, you know?

Then, two officers get up and they testify that there was never a report that Ezell's gun was missing in the first place. Like, what do you mean you don't know if it happened in a burglary or it was stolen or what? Why don't you know where your weapon is at? Listen, listen, listen. Y'all know we got gun control problems. We got gun control problems. But also, like, if you from the hood, when your shit get broken into, you're not automatically going to have a police report. Like...

Most people are. And what you're going to say, oh, my gun is stolen? Oh, my house got burglarized and maybe my gun is missing? So the defense is like, listen, the prosecution is spewing you lies. They want to keep talking about this confession that she was coerced. She was forced. She spent 10 hours in that investigation room before she had a confession, okay? She just wanted to get the hell up out of there.

And they also was like, you know, Vivian loved her daughter. She would have never killed her. They discussed how Vivian struggled with alcoholism, but they're like, but she's not a murderer. And they're up there asking her on the stand, did you kill your daughter? And she says, no, no, I love my daughter. The prosecution is kind of coming at her like, girl, no, you didn't.

They're like, that is some fucking bullshit. That is some bullshit. They said, you were jealous of your daughter. And I think they're just really trying to grasp for a motive at this point. The prosecution is like, that is some fucking bullshit. And you fucking know it. Because A, bitch, you willingly came to the police station.

And you said that you had info and you willingly sat down for a polygraph test. And after we said, why the fuck did you fail it? You gave us a confession, a loving daughter, a loving mother. Bullshit. Everybody here and we can bring up coach. You never went to any of her track meets. Never.

She was recruited by Clemson. Mothers would be jumping for motherfucking joy. And you never showed up to any of her things. Question for you. Weren't you trying to be a track star when you were little? Didn't you not do that? Okay, so you're jealous of her. Boom. If your story that Shelly was killed in a robbery, why would this robber take her jacket, socks, and shoes?

When she had on jewelry, she had on earrings, necklaces. She had all this jewelry on, but she was robbed. How'd that happen? And robbing, like scamming and robbing niggas, they just shoot you and run away and leave. She was partially covered up. Like it was some very piss poor way of trying to cover up the body.

It just doesn't correlate with somebody just getting robbed or her getting mugged or even having a hit out on her. So they have all of this evidence. And the really, the main thing that they're trying to pin down is motive, of course. So they start off with the jealousy motive. Like, Shelly's doing way better than you did in track. She's out here, you know,

becoming successful becoming a prodigy becoming a well-known name around the city and you're jealous of it also Shelly did have some abortions and from what we hear on the streets I saw a YouTube video and in the comments somebody was like they know her and and they were like the story is just like the story about the abortions is way deeper than it shows and witness got on the stand and

And said not only was Shelly pregnant, but Shelly was pregnant by Vivian's boyfriend, Mr. Clarence. So y'all can put that in y'all. That's not true. Like, please, Lord. You know, sometimes the comment section of doing this research is where I find all the tea. All the tea, man. They be like, I know her.

Right. That's where you run into all the tea. And people constantly came up and they were like, you know, Vivian was really pissed every time that Shelly was gone or at a track meet or doing some type of extracurricular activity because that means that Shelly was not at home taking care of her little sister.

And that was supposed to be like Shelly's place in Vivian's eyes. The trial itself lasted for four weeks and the jury took six hours to come to their decision. They found her guilty of third degree murder and not first degree murder. So in Pennsylvania...

They have this rule, this loophole, this law, whatever the fuck you want to call it, that if you're under the influence of alcohol or if you're under the influence of any type of substance while you commit a murder, it's like, oh, the liquor made me do it. I was gone off the liquor.

And the jury had to just like come together and they had to agree that if she was sober, she would not have committed this murder. And so somehow that jury was convinced of it. Prosecution really was hoping that like, you know,

Shelly wasn't shot one time, you know, she her face was busted as well. So they were hoping that all of these hits would have shown would have overruled this stipulation. But the jury was like, no, we think that, you know, maybe she was sober, that she wouldn't do it.

Which is bullshit to me. I think it's bullshit. I think it's fucking bullshit because, I mean, we've done, we've talked about it with all, a lot of our cases. Every time that you do something, you have a choice. You were sober enough to, you, you, yes, you was drunk, but you knew exactly where your gun was. You knew where your clip was. You keep them in separate places. You were able to drive. You were able to stronghold her. You shot her more than once. You, a shot.

a gunshot is loud you know and it also has kickback it's enough to at least jolt you and to know like even if you black out a little bit like oh what the fuck did i just shoot somebody there's so many times where she could have if she was headed to towards the police station she had a choice to pass the police station and go to the park instead everything was a choice and if she's an alcoholic like

Everybody says that she is. Alcoholics, yeah, they may be crazy and black out, but alcoholics still know how to function. A lot of them do. And it sounds like she at least knew what the fuck was going on. I think...

The jury was just trying to bring something that makes sense. Like, you know, I'm sure they put mothers on a thing and they're probably like, as a mother, there's nothing that would make me kill my child. So it has to be something. If you're saying it's the alcohol, then it must be the alcohol, because how could you do it to your child? Like trying to make it make sense. You know what I mean? Evil don't make sense all the time.

You know, like it doesn't. There's no there are way too many choices that she made. And then on top of that, you lead the search party, bitch. It's everything that you did afterwards, too. Like, it's not just the crime itself, which is already horrific enough. You was you was dead ass wasting all of our time, money and resources. They should be there should be an extra charge for that. But then she's probably saying I blacked out. It's just not coming back to me.

Yeah, no, fuck that. And then they probably, I don't know, I think if this was something that you blacked out, you know, like you have like repressed memories, that'd probably be one of the stuff down there is killing my kid. I don't want to think about it. So she probably could have got away with the lie on that jury. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. She gets to the sentencing phase and she's like, listen, I did not kill my daughter.

I know the jury found me guilty of this crime, so I'm asking you to please be lenient with me. You know, when they give her her sentence. Now, she could have received a minimum of five years in prison and a maximum of 25 under the guidelines. The judge gave her what he considered a strong sentence of 10 to 20 years because she refused to admit still after being found guilty that she did the crime. He was like, you're not showing any remorse. You still won't say you did it. So I'm not about to be lenient with you.

So she got the 10 to 20, and then she also got sentenced to two and a half to five years for a weapons violation, even though they never found the 25 or the 38 caliber gun. After 11 years of serving time, Vivian King was released, and she is currently living a quiet life in Philly. Don't know what her relationship is like with her remaining kids. Don't know if she's laid off the bottle.

Don't know if she's still with Clarence. Don't know if Clarence held her down. Doubt it. Clarence probably needed a place to stay. I think that's just crazy that she's out, though, you know? Yeah, it is. Because, like, you killed your kid. She really, I mean, she got charged with third-degree murder, but she really should have got first degree, and she really should be in there. All right, y'all, it's time for... Well, I'm not Black. I'm OG.

I ain't do it. But if I did, this is how I would have got away with it. If you knew you did it, why would you love Psychic Annie? I wouldn't even play with y'all like that. You know, I think that maybe because you have some belief in it, like maybe she didn't believe. And maybe when that girl started talking, she was like, listen, you a little too on her nose. Back the fuck up out my house. You gots to go.

Most people don't know this, and Shelly probably didn't have the resources for this, but like, emancipator. If you really couldn't fucking deal with her ass, emancipator. Go through the legal doctrine to get the kid out the house. You can do that.

And, oh, Shelly would have got even more money when she was applying for financial aid for college. Oh, my gosh. She would have got even more money if she was an emancipated minor. Oh, why didn't you do that? If you didn't want her that bad, she could go across the street to Andrea's house. But don't when you get emancipated, you have to prove that you can survive on your own without a parent? Like I said, she didn't know those resources. Right.

If she knew there was options, I'm sure she would have done it. But also, what are you going to do? Leave your little sister behind? Mm-hmm. Ugh. Her little sister that she's always taking care of. She probably felt kind of like real mommy stores there. Absolutely. She was 10 years older than her. She was in the 10th grade. Where did Shelly go wrong? The bottle. I ain't do it. I ain't do it. But if I did, a gun should have never came into play. Like...

It's a deadly weapon. Like, yeah, you can say Shelly got a knife, yada, yada, yada, but you backing that up with a gun? Right. And you already pistol-whipped her more than a few times. I ain't do it, but if I did, I'd just stop at the damn police station. But the fact that you kept going past that shit, police probably would have put you in a drunk tank, called it a domestic dispute, and y'all both would have been back home before the weekend was over. Right. And...

It just doesn't make sense to me. Or maybe not before the weekend was over because it was a Sunday and it's real hard to get out on a Sunday, but still...

Y'all would have been home soon. Y'all would have been home soon and nobody would be dead. And y'all probably would have had to have had a real come to Jesus about what needs to happen in this house. Doubt it. Because according to everybody in the neighborhood, Vivian was just like a mean ass bitch. Like nobody, everybody was like during the investigation and during the search parties when nobody knew that Vivian did this, they were like, I mean, we were all feeling for her, for Shelly.

It was always fuck Vivian over here. She was, I mean, they were saying that she was like drunk on the soup trying to fight people. Like it was always fuck Vivian. And I just feel like if that community, it's so hard. Like when a community rallies behind one, like, but nobody had the resources when she was still here or knew of what was really going on. Her coach brushed it off because yeah, people be having problems, but like coach trying to tell you for real, for real, we having problems.

And I think that's always a tricky situation because it's like, how serious do you take it? And it's like, I know one of the kids I was tutoring, he used to tell me some shit. And I'd be like, I went to his parents and they were just like, he just lies. He just, and then he'll come back and be like, oh, I didn't mean any of it. I was just upset. And I'm like, do you want to be taken away from your mother? He's like, no, I love my mom. And I was like, don't say those things. That kid is...

But that kid's a proven liar because I mean, think about, think about Catherine and Curtis who goes back and tells lies, but it was, but they were actually telling the truth in the first place. Right. But even it's like, I'm going to say, do you, do you need help? Do you need to be taken away? He's like, no, no, no. I don't want to leave my mom. I don't want to be taken away from my mom. You can't say these things. Right. You can't say these things because you got some real consequences. Yeah.

But also on the flip side, when when they are saying those things and they're really saying them like, why? And at this time, like she's a teenager. Yeah. But hello. Help, please. Like it seems like at some point she was at least reaching out for help or at least trying to get people to realize that, you know, shit ain't peaching the cream over in this house. Was she reaching out for help or was she just complaining and just channeling it through track? Because a lot of people suffer in silence.

And it might just, you know, as black people, we taught what happens in a home stays in a home. You know what I mean? So even when shit do get rough, you know, you're not really, you might tell your close, good best friend, but you're not telling everybody shit's rough at home. You know? Right. What happens in a house stay in a house. And so I think she really just thugged it out on the field and that was her piece and that was her space. And yeah,

I don't think it was just, I don't think anybody realized it was this bad. Parole or no parole? I mean, she was released, but they definitely, I think I would have liked her to say at least 20. Nah, girl, you could have gone ahead and did life on that one. At least 20, 25. Nah, you can go ahead and do life without the possible. I mean, and that's fine too, but 11 years, that shit is,

I'm sure Shelly had 11 more years or way more than 11 more years left of living to go. Right. So somebody, it keeps playing in my mind because we're telling these dates, 93, 90. I seen on Twitter, somebody said, uh,

My son just referred to my birth year as the late 1900s, and that shit pissed me off. I was like, they said, I can't believe it's been 30 years since the 90s. I said, well, damn, I guess it has. It has. Late 1900s. Kiss my ass. We old, y'all. We old. All right.

Let's read some reviews and skedaddle. This review is from Fuck Y'all. F-U-X. Fuck y'all. It says, this show is awesome. Five stars. You two are amazing. It feels like I'm hanging with my friends while you talk. This is the best show I could have stumbled upon while doing my late door dashes. Thanks, girl.

I've been listening to podcasts, too, when I do my late door dashes, but not this one. This one says, listen to this podcast right now. Love this show. I've been listening to true crime podcasts for about three years now and started out with a pretty popular one, but was getting pretty annoyed with the annoying, obviously scripted commentary. If you know, you know. And I just wasn't feeling super engaged. I stumbled across Fishes Who Kill when y'all only had about 10 episodes and I binged them all so quick.

I love the banter and the cases, but I also really enjoy the way they talk about the cases that have so many layers, like Daphne Wright, CeCe McDonald, Angel Bumpus, and Centoria Brown. And the ads? I found so many amazing companies just because I was listening to the podcast that I enjoyed. I could sing out praises all day, and the only reason I waited so long to write a review is because I honestly couldn't figure out how. Keep up the incredible work.

Thank you, girl. Y'all hear that? They enjoy the ads. They enjoy the ads. Yes. I think that's the end of the show for real. Yes, they enjoy the ad. And if you want to add space for your small business on this amazing platform that is growing and growing and growing, you can hit us up via email at sisterswhokillpodcasts at gmail.com. If you want to also give us suggestions, just say hi. You can also email us there as well.

If you prefer to tweet us, you can tweet us at sisters who kill. If you want to see pictures from this episode, you can look us up at sisters who kill pod on Instagram, on Tik TOK at sisters who kill podcast. Sorry, making Tik TOKs again. Y'all saw that y'all y'all with me. I'm trying to keep, keep me consistent. Y'all like, come on. And then you can join the discussion group on Facebook. It is a private discussion group. You must answer the questions to get in all of them as well as agree to the group rules or we will not let you in. Um, anything else friend?

Talk to us when we talk back. Bye.