Tia Skinner
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What's going on, everybody? I'm Marah. And I'm Tez. And welcome back to Sisters Who Kill. What you wouldn't do, do for love. You tried everything and it wouldn't be enough. What you wouldn't do, do for love. Would you kill and make everything messed up? Our players this week are Mara Skinner, our victim, survivor, and Tia's mother.

Paul Skinner, our victim, and Tia's dad. James Preston, accomplice. Jonathan Kurtz, accomplice, and Tia's boyfriend. And Tia Skinner, our murderess. Tia Marie Michelle Skinner was born on December of 1992. Now, we've had different sources. Some people said she was born on the 2nd. Some people said she was born on the 8th. But either way, December of 1992.

Now, she was born to her mother, who was in prison at the time of her birth. Her mother's name was Valerie Bora. Now, Valerie spent time in prison for possession of a controlled substance, breaking and entering, and a couple of other things, according to the Michigan Department of Corrections. Now, after Tia was born, Tia actually had an older brother that was about two years older.

But Tia, she lived with dad who was in Detroit for about the first 10 months of her life. And then she moved into foster care for a couple of weeks because she couldn't stay with dad anymore. From being in foster care, she then moved in with her great grandmother who lived in Charlevix. And I know y'all gonna say I spelled that, said that wrong. They lived in Charlevix until she was about two years old. Her brother already at this time was living with their aunt and uncle in Charlotte.

So at that time, they decided that they were going to take Tia in as well. This is technically her half-brother, but, you know, it's her brother. Now, I'm not sure how old they were when Mara and Paul formally adopted the two, but they had two older children, and they loved them, and it was very easy for, like, my cousins to become my siblings type of thing. And when they grew up, their life was pretty normal. Tia sang in the church choir at Yale United Methodist Church. She participated in band. She excelled in school.

And it was really working out for the couple to have their nieces and nephews now become their children. Now, Paul, the uncle, now her father, was born on December 11th, 1962 in Highland Park, Michigan, to his parents, Graydon and Nancy Skinner.

He worked as a pipe fitter for the Sterlon Contractors in Shelby Township, and he was a faithful member of the Church of Believers. His family and God were the two most important things in his life. And he was married to Mara Roxanne Bora. Now, I do need to let y'all know that Paul and Mara are white people.

And Mara was Tia's mom's sister. So Tia is mixed and they got white kids. This information people didn't know. I feel like Mara and Valerie looked alike because Tia resembles her.

Like they got them same cheeks. If it's her sister's kid, more than likely they're going to look alike because a lot of people, they have kids and they're like, oh man, this kid looks like my sister. Like they, her and her sister must look a lot alike because she done passed on that face still. Yeah. Strong genes. Even like Cardi B, she be saying that culture looks just like her sister Hennessy. And I'm like, she really does though. Mm-hmm.

Mara Roxanne Boer worked as a school teacher for 15 years. On April 12th of 1986, she was

She and Paul got married and they moved to Yale, Michigan in 1992. They lived here happily. They raised their kids here. They had two biological children, Aaron and Madeline. Later, they adopted Tia and her older brother, Jeff, when their mother got arrested and all that shit happened, right? Mara not only worked as a teacher at Yale Middle School, but she also coached the track team.

For Tia, growing up here, she had a pretty normal life. She went to school. She did well at school. At the age of 17, she was an honor student with great grades, so much so that she had a full-ride scholarship to Western Michigan University. According to her friends, she was charismatic, personable. She had all types of friends. She kicked it with the athletes. She kicked it with the nerds. Like,

I feel like that was me though. I had like, I didn't have like a clique. I just knew bits and people from different cliques. I fuck with these two from over there and him from over there and you from over there. Nah, I feel like that was me though. Like, I feel like I was kicking it with everybody with the IB students. My first time getting fucked up in high school was with IB students.

I was on cross country wrestling. Like I did a little bit French club, drum club. I was a little bit of reading bowl. Like I was fucking. Yeah. Yeah. She was just she was all around girl. And not only did she sing in the church choir, but she also was part of a youth church group there that would meet once a week. So like very involved in a church. Right.

And one day she notices this new boy starting to show up at church. And church has got a whole lot more interest in that, hasn't it? It's like fall of 2010. Here comes this little scrawny white kid, Jonathan Aaron Kurtz.

That's right. Jonathan Aaron Kurtz was born on December 11th, 1991. He had a pretty rough upbringing. His mom wasn't really in the picture. His dad wasn't there. He was around, but he wasn't very reliable or super supportive. He was pretty much marked as a troubled youth. He was deemed the bad boy. He would go out and smoke weed. He would go out and drink and party because he had no real supervision. Now, he was a little bit of a

eventually he became really good friends with James Preston. Now, James Leslie Preston was born on March 23rd, 1992. And James...

came from a good family. His family was going to church all the time. His family was very similar to Tia's. They were loving, they were caring, they were nurturing. They kept him involved in things such as Eagle Scouts, athletics in high school, wrestling, just doing all the things that you should be doing as a young adult. And when he became friends with Jonathan...

Jonathan's home life was really rocky, really shaky. And so James asked his parents if Jonathan could move in, like, can we help him out a little bit? And James's family opened their doors to Jonathan and really tried to help him turn his life around. They introduced him to church. They introduced him to the youth group.

Things were really working out. Now, James had just graduated from high school. And in 2009, he gave, he didn't give birth. His baby mama gave birth. In 2009, he had his first child, a daughter that he welcomed into the world. When Jonathan meets Tia for the first time in church, he's like, the very first time that I saw your brown eyes.

you'll say hello. And I said, hi. And they were like, praise the Lord. I have found the person for me. He said that she was like a breath of fresh air. And even though they were complete opposites, like Jonathan was marked as a person that didn't have much of a future. He was a partier. He smoked weed. And Tia was the complete opposite. She knew what she was going to do with her life. She had a great upbringing. She was

really active in the church. She knew the Lord her whole life. She had a full scholarship, fellowship. She was really excited about her future. And even though Jonathan did graduate high school in 2010, it's still...

their futures didn't seem like they were going to be the same, which I honestly don't like because why are you going to count me out based off my upbringing? Like just because I had no adult supervision at the age of 16 doesn't mean that I won't go on to be an amazing person.

This was a small town that they were living in. Word traveled quick. And so Mara knew that Tia was running around with Jonathan. And she also knew that Jonathan was a bad boy. Like he was doing all the things. And this was the first time that Mara found herself questioning Tia's judgment in her friends. Most of the boys that you're going to start talking to, like your senior year of high school, in high school, you're always pushing the needle.

And I also saw that one of her friends were like, she didn't get a lot of play like that. So when a boy was interested in her, this was like, wow, a boy is interested in me. And that happens a lot to girls. Like you don't, especially because standard beauty standards or whatever. She was mixed, raised by white people. So they didn't know how to do her hair. Your first time getting play from a boy, you're like, oh my goodness. Like this, you like me?

Oh, you like me. You want to marry me. You want to kiss me. Love me forever. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All of that. But Mara and Paul, they're not with the shits. And I think Mara's more the mouth behind it. And Paul's like, yeah, what she said. And...

Mara is gone and she's talking to you. She's like, listen, Paula and I talked about friends that were in his peer groups. And that's something that I don't want you exposed to. I don't think you need to be around people who are drinking. Don't need to be around people who are smoking. You're a focused young girl. You're almost out of here. Like you're at the home stretch. Don't mess it up. Senioritis is real. OK, this boy is already graduated. So school is not a priority for him.

you need to be focused so not lose your full ride scholarship to college scholarship to a good college all you gotta do is just finish the year and finish it strong and sometimes I feel like that has to be the hardest time for parents like if I already know I got a full ride I feel like what's like that way when I felt like I knew I had a full ride to college I was like all right

Secure the bag. What they going to do, take it away? And they will. They will. Yo, I remember somebody saying, once you get somebody, I feel like somebody our senior year, I don't know what football player it was, but had a full ride and thought that since he had a full ride that he ain't, like, need to do anything anymore. It was like, it's all contingent upon you. They had to haul ass at the end of the year. Like, you fucking dumbass. It all counts. It all counts.

Man, I can think about five of our football players who that could have possibly been. And I'm sure it might have been all of them at the same time. Probably all told each other that very dumb thing that they made up. Don't believe the things you make up in your brain. Google, do some research. Y'all think these two have been in it for the long haul or whatever, right? They just met each other, okay? Yeah.

So Mara's not taking it that deep. She's like, listen, girl, he's not the one. OK, try again. But that ain't really who I want you around. But Tia and Jonathan getting closer and closer to the point where Mara's like, listen, I tried to talk to you. I do not want you to see him anymore. And this takes place around like October 31st. So Mara has forbade this from happening. She don't want to hear no more about it.

She ends up going through Tia's phone and seeing a text message from Jonathan professing his love for Tia. Mara's like, you don't fall in love in a week. Y'all just met each other. Like, get over it, okay? Mara ends up giving Tia her phone back, and Tia's like, fine, Mom, I'll stop seeing him, okay? And, of course, that was a lie. And she continues to hang out with Jonathan. So, you know...

Right at the beginning of November, Tia is a month away from turning 18. She's feeling grown. If I want to see this boy, why can't I see this boy? We're in love. And she just mad that she ain't have a love at first sight story like we did. And she really just needs to mind her business. So she's like, fuck what mom said. I'm still going to see him.

She can't tell me what to do. Now, Mara finds out, of course, because kids aren't as sneaky as they think that they are. She's upset, like, girl, I don't even understand why I've had to tell you this many times to leave this boy alone. So now you're in trouble, as black people say, on punishment. Part of her punishment was having her phone compensated. And of course, when you're on punishment, you can't go nowhere. White people call it grounded. Black people on punishment.

I remember one time when I was going to a school and I had a white friend and it was maybe like third or fourth grade and I was on punishment. And my white friend, when she was grounded, she was still able to watch TV. And when I was on punishment, I couldn't. Yeah, you can't do that on punishment. I was like, so-and-so gets grounded and I want to be grounded. She said, if you want to call it grounded, you can call it grounded too. Go to your room. Gagged me. She said, whatever you want to call it, get out my face. It is shut down.

So while she was on punishment, of course, she couldn't leave the house except for to go to school and to go to band practice and, of course, to church. She didn't have her phone. Y'all know how it is with a phone. Don't take that shit away. It's mine. That's my whole world, okay? What do you mean you're taking it from me? Especially at 17. Like, there's nothing more important than your phone.

I feel like she must have not got her phone taken like that because remember in high school, I never had my phone. I stayed with a phone out. Like we was the most emailing ass niggas. I can find very old emails from us in my inbox to this day. I found some crazy old emails from the times when I did not have a phone. Said, listen,

Every time somebody does something crazy over a phone, I'm like, y'all really didn't get your phone taken like that? Like, I knew that having my phone was a privilege. We did used to email a lot. Yeah. I'm on punishment, friend. Just wanted to tell you hi. Oh, my God. On top of having her phone taken, that means she can't talk to Jonathan.

except for when they see each other at church, right? They go here once a week. It's not every day like they want it, but she's got a fix for this. She goes to youth group and she tells Jonathan, my mom's so annoying. She took my phone and she like doesn't want us to be together. I don't know why, but like, I'm sick of it. I wish you were dead. She was like, we should do something. And Jonathan's like, yeah, yeah, okay. And she was like, all right. So I'm going to draw this map out.

And Jonathan's like, oh, whoa, for real? And she was like, do you love me? And he's like, of course, anything you want, right? So Jonathan, he's committing to this. And I think he's like, I got half a mind thinking it's going to blow over. But then the next week comes and the next youth group comes and Tia's prepared, right?

So now you remember Jonathan and James, they're best bros or whatever. They're always together. And James is the one who even introduced him to this group in the first place. Tia's like, definitely going to need some help. So James, you need to help Jonathan do this. And Jonathan's like, bro, like, it's my girl. You got to help me do this. And James is like, I don't know about that. And Tia's like, all right, what if I give you $1,000? And like you and Jonathan can split it.

And they were like, hell yeah, $1,000 totes. So $100, friends. I love how everybody makes it sound big. $1,000 to split. Yeah. Yeah. Besides, Jane's got a baby. So everything, every little bit helps. All right. So another youth group day comes up. It's Tuesday, November 10, 2010. And Tia is.

pulls up a youth group she's sitting next to jonathan they talking she's like oh yeah you're gonna kill my parents this weekend he's like of course baby anything for you so then she pulls out a map that she drew she drew the exterior of her home how to pull up where to park she said this is what you have to do i've laid it out for you baby she pulls out a map of the interior of her home

And she says, this is where my room is. This is where you will enter. This is where my parents' room is. Everything is labeled. She gives the path that he needs to go. She tells him, I will leave the windows open for you. I will leave weapons out for you. And your $1,000 will be on the bed waiting for you when you arrive. And then she gives a third piece of paper. And this third piece of paper is titled, Quick Tips.

And on the quick tips page, it said, the dogs will bark. Please do not hurt them. Which is crazy because my dog's going to hurt you before you hurt it. Or hide. Not my dog. Rex's ass going to be under the bed talking about Mariah Giddle. Loud as hell, too. He going to bark, boy. He going to bark. He under the bed talking about, now let me go, let me go. You better be happy they're holding me.

Don't do my dog like that. Don't do my dog like that. When your dogs won't even fight, they're just a sturdy in number. Yep. Sometimes that's all you need. Yep. That works. Too many of them motherfuckers. They see all them big dogs and be like, nah, I'm good. I'm playing. I'm playing. Anyways, okay, so it says, please don't hurt the dogs. The later the better.

It says, "Try to make it look like a robbery gone bad. Best place to park is the abandoned house behind me. If you do it earlier, be prepared for them to be in the TV room. If I am for some reason not out of the house, I will be in my room with the TV and the music loud." So here it is, November 11, 2010, and her dad, Paul, comes home early from a work trip. He and his wife, Mara, and Tia, they go shopping for party supplies, then they go to dinner.

The family is supposed to be really happy they're all together because the oldest daughter, Madeline, she just got engaged. And they're going to do like a little bit of an engagement celebration. It's really great. They go out to eat. They come back home. And what do you know? Jeff comes in town to surprise everybody. And everybody's like, oh, my goodness, Jeff is here. He's like, oh, my goodness, my big brother is here. Hmm, this kind of messes things up. But we're really excited to see him. So everybody...

has their family get together for the evening. Parents go to bed and Jeff is sitting on the couch watching the new TV that they just got in the living room. And Tia, she goes, she swipes her phone from her parents and she sends a text message to her little boyfriend. And she says, it has to happen tonight. Don't text back. I snatched the phone from my parents. It has to happen tonight, 11 o'clock. Dun, dun, dun.

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You can do it all with Squarespace. Dramatic. So Jeff is kicking away his family for about an hour and Atiyah's like, hey, you want to go watch movies in the basement?

And he's like, we can watch a movie here in the living room on the couch. It's a brand new TV. It's nice. You can just chill here. She's like, please, can we just go to the basement, do like a movie night in the basement? He's like, okay, if it's that important to you. Now, before she goes downstairs, Tia goes to her room, opens a window, cuts the screen, lays out weapons, multiple knives on her bed. And she was supposed to leave $1,000, but...

She didn't. Now she goes down to the basement and Tia's like, oh, Jeff, actually, could you help me with a book report while we're down here? And he's like, sure. And she's like, oh, oh, I need to go get some paper. And then she goes upstairs to get paper, but then doesn't come back with any paper. And she's like, oh, wait, I need to go get a pen. She comes back with no pen. And then she's like, oh, you want a drink? And he's like, nah, I got one. She's like, let me get you a drink. And he's like, all right, you're being fucking weird.

It's Friday night. Like, y'all have to understand, at this point, Tia and Jonathan are celebrating their two-week anniversary. Like, they're fresh still, okay? But the love is deep and cannot be denied, okay? So it's, like, 11 p.m. Mara and Paul, they're in their mid to late 40s. Like, they're in bed, okay? And Tia and Jeff, they're in the basement watching a movie, working on a report, whatever you—whatever Tia's got going on, right?

So, Jonathan and James, they make their way into the house. And according to Jonathan, once he gets in the house, he's like, I don't know if we should be doing this anymore. And James is like, bro, let's just hurry up and do it. Now they look on their bed, and the weapons are there, but the $1,000 that Tia promised is not. They're like, should we still do it? He's like, we came all this way. We might as well not waste the gas. So, I did it like, I know y'all be wanting video. I did a hard side eye after I said that because...

Let's just kill him. Not waste of gas. Not even getting fucking paid, but we drove all this way, right? Love. Love will pay the way. So they follow this little map to get into Tia's parents' bedroom. They get upstairs. They go to the bedroom. Jonathan goes to Mara and James goes to Paul. And they just start stabbing them.

Suddenly after the attack, Paul wakes up screaming to Mara, Mara wakes up feeling like she just got punched in the stomach. Then she sees somebody on top of her husband and she realizes somebody's on top of her doing the same thing, stabbing her over and over and over again. Paul's trying to fight back the intruders to get them off of him and to save his wife. He gets out of bed and he turns on the bedroom light. And as Paul starts fighting back, Jonathan and James are trying to get away.

Paul puts James into a headlock, but then James just keeps stabbing Paul until Paul lets him go. And that's when James was able to run out of the room and Jonathan follows out behind him. They run out the front door and Paul's like, nah, fuck you because you just broke into my house and threatened my family. So he's chasing out after them, making sure they're good and gone. The two make it out the house and they get in their car and drive off.

Paul makes his way back inside and collapses on the floor. Mara is stabbed a total of 26 times. And as she stayed in the room, she called 911. To herself, she thought, oh my gosh, this was it.

She's seeing her children and her life is flashing before her eyes. She was so scared and just trying to save herself. She grabbed the knife with her bare hands. She said, you got to go. You guys got to go. Jeff's here. Like, my son just came to visit today. And y'all want to intrude my house today? Nah, I don't think she was saying it like that. I think she was saying, like, you see how my husband is whooping y'all ass right now? My son's about to come upstairs and start whooping y'all asses too. That's how I read it.

Is that how you read it? Because I was like, Jeff ain't the only one there. Shit, Tia there too. Tia wasn't finna do nothing because when they heard the commotion going on, Jeff runs upstairs. And by the time he gets upstairs, Paul has already started chasing them out the house, right? So when Paul comes in, Jeff looks at his dad. And he's like, I look at him and he looked like he's painted red with blood. Like his insides are cut.

And that's when he falls out. Jeff runs to his dad because remember, he's in training right now. He's in school to be a medical professional. He runs to his dad. He tries to emergency like saving. But Paul is like, no, go to your mom, go to your mom. Because I think Paul like knew that his injuries were really bad. And so this whole time,

Jeff runs in there Mara is on the phone Jeff is yelling for his sister Tia Tia come upstairs come upstairs Tia's like I can't come upstairs she's yelling from the basement I can't go up there I can't go up there Mara is on the phone with 9-1-1 when they're like 9-1-1 how can I help you she's just like help help we're bleeding really bad like help help and Jeff runs into the room

He gets on the phone and he kind of like tells them 911 what's going on, his name, all that. In the background, you can hear Paul saying like, I can't breathe. Jeff is like, please send somebody. I can't help both of them at the same time. Please tell EMS to hurry up and get there. Morrow, she was taking her entire body. She was pressing herself against the headboard because you know, a wound, like when you get a wound, you're supposed to apply pressure. But when the pressure is, the cut is like,

All over your front body. She was just pressing herself, trying to like stop the blood from coming, like literally trying to survive. Jeff is trying to help her, trying to attend to his dad as much as he can. When EMS arrives, he's like, listen, he's really bad. Go check on mom. Go check on mom. The EMTs get Mara stabilized. They come back to Paul. Paul is dead on the scene and they pronounce it.

Paul suffered a lot of cuts. His chest cavity ended up pooling in about half a gallon of blood. His aorta was cut and that ultimately made him bleed out and die. So people still can't believe that maybe it was adrenaline. Maybe it was like really trying to fend off his family, his wife and his home, like as a man. But nobody really knows how he had the energy to run and chase after these men. And then before coming back and

falling on the floor. The EMS arrived, the police arrived, Tia is still downstairs. She finally comes upstairs and Mara is being loaded into an ambulance and taken to the hospital. Tia and Jeff are outside the house consoling each other like, wow, what a crazy fucking night, right? Like, what happened to our parents?

The police, they do a basic questioning of the two. The sheriff, Deputy Jeff Green, is like, do you guys know what happened here? Tia says, no, but my brother said it was bad. The police start questioning Jeff and Tia right there, asking if they know anybody who would want to hurt their parents. Why would anybody do this? They both start, no. They notice that both of these kids are pretty calm, like,

Both of your parents were just brutally attacked. One is dead. One, we don't know how it's going to end up. Y'all were in the house when it happened. Nobody's crying uncontrollably. Nobody's like freaking out. Everybody's just like calmly answering the questions. Should we be looking at them? Even when they talked to Tia, not once did she ask about the state of her parents.

But they're like, you know what? Probably just in shock. Let's just focus on what this could be. So they're like, maybe somebody was trying to rob the house and were chased away by Paul when he started to attack. Because at the end of the day, the kids don't have any blood on them or anything. It's obviously not them who did the attack. Right. Let's think elsewhere. Maybe somebody else tried to rob them.

you know they find out from the kids that they went shopping earlier that day and they're like okay somebody probably saw y'all shopping felt like y'all had money followed you home tried to rob the place so they're like you know what we're gonna start our investigation on his house Jeff you guys are gonna have to leave because this is now active crime scene so while all this is happening Mars rushed to the hospital in the ambulance with her is a Yale City Patrol officer Brace Timmons he

He says that he didn't question her. The whole ride was kind of just breathe, just breathe, hoping that she made it to the hospital. Right. It was at the hospital. They realized she had been stabbed a total of 26 times. She was conscious, but she wasn't able to give Officer Timmons any real information. And when she got to the hospital, she was put in the ICU.

Now, later that night, neighbors come over. Phil LaGore, in particular, goes inside the house. Not sure how that was allowed to happen since it's a crime scene, but he said there was blood everywhere. Like, I'm saying y'all can see fingerprints dragging across the walls, smeared blood on the walls, on the floor, all over the sheets. It was a crime scene, okay? Everything covered in blood.

And still can't get over a nosy neighbor being like, I walked in a house. I walked in that active crime scene and I was like, holy shit. It's got to be something like he had to pack bags for the kids or something like he has to have been escorted through there. And because it don't make no sense. But he says, I remember crying out, stay with us, Paul, stay with us.

He said, I was just hoping for a miracle. Now, as the police get inside the house, they see the bloodbath that's here, right? There's footprints, handprints. There clearly was a struggle throughout this house near the staircase. There's two bloodstained knives. So they have the murder weapon right there. When the investigators arrived, they were like, this is a literal massacre.

bloodbath. Like this crime scene is like out of this world. They're walking around and they see that near the staircase, there are two bloodstained Ikea knives. And they're like, hmm, look at that, the murder weapon right there. They're looking around the house. How could somebody have possibly gotten in? And they see in Tia's room, oh, look, the windows open and the screens cut out.

great, that must be how the killers got in. They look outside and they're like, hmm, her window is not the window that I would have chosen as a murderer. The police investigator was a Black woman. Her name was Twanda Powell. And she looked out there and she said, you know what? I ain't do it, but if I did, I would not have used that window because it doesn't seem like the most logical window. It wasn't like you needed a chair to get in. You needed somebody else to help you get in. It wasn't the one you should use. And so...

They continued their way through the house. Now, I'm sure she's in there picking up evidence like, wow, okay, I got the murder weapon. I got the entrance point. It seems like maybe somebody was trying to rob the house. Obviously, that would be the first thought. But they're like, it's no evidence of a robbery because the valuables are still here.

And four people are here. Like most robbers would say, oh, somebody's home. Let's not rob this house. Why would somebody just enter into a house where there's a TV going on, a few TVs, music playing? So she goes and she talks to the neighbors. Have y'all seen anything? Y'all heard anything? Maybe a lover's quarrel? Is somebody mad at Mara? Is somebody mad at Paul? Like...

any tea to give. And the neighbors are like, no, there's nothing. Like, we don't understand who would have done this. And then the detective gets word that Mara has been stabilized in the hospital. So they're like, great, she's awake. We can rush to the hospital and

We can have some police officer still assessing the crime scene. We need to talk to her before she gets into surgery. So time is of the essence. They run to the hospital. They talk to her and they're like, Mara, is there anything that you can tell us? And she tells the same story that they already knew from Tia and from Jeff. Her, Paul, her, Paul and Tia went out to eat. Jeff was there when they got home that evening. Everybody went to bed around 11 o'clock.

And she says, I felt like as soon as I got to sleep, there was a sharp pain in my back. And she thought she was being punched. And she woke up because Paul screamed for her. And she found out that she was being stabbed. And they're like, can you identify any of the people that attacked you? She says, no, there were two men. But I don't know. They had ski masks on.

I can't identify them. And the detectives are like, okay, but that's good to know because when they talked to Jeff, remember Jeff ran upstairs later. So he thought that there was only one guy. And now the detectives know that they're looking for two guys. They ask her the questions. Do you know anybody that would want to kill your husband? And she says, no, I don't know anybody. I don't know who would want to hurt us. Before Detective Brace leaves the hospital, he's able to talk to Maura and Paul's oldest daughter, Madeline. They're questioning her and they're like, no.

We need a lead. Who would want to do this to your parents? And she's like, I couldn't tell you. And they were like, has there been any issues that they've been having lately? And they were like, no, they get along with everybody. My mom and Tia got into it over some boys she's been seeing lately, but like no way that that's over. They just met each other. It's two weeks.

I was like, the boy's name is Jonathan, but that's me grasping for straws here, right? The police, they start looking for Jonathan. They're like, okay, where was he the night of the attack? Maybe he was mad that Ma and Paul wouldn't let Tia see him anymore and decided to take things into his own hands so he could be with his love.

So they're digging into him and they're like, he's not the worst kid. Like he don't got no real crimes under his belt. Seems like he had a rough background or whatever.

He's probably not a positive role model, but he's not a bad kid either, right? There's no history of violence, no, like, arrest history, none of that. Nothing to make him think, like, this is the troublemaker in this sense, right? Like, we're talking murder here, okay? The police are at the hospital. They start wrapping up this conversation with Madeline, and CSU is still at the house canvassing the area. So they've already gone through the front yard, and now they're circling the perimeter trying to see what they can find out there.

And what do they find but a map? It's the map. It's the map. It's the map. It's the map. They find this piece of paper and it's a hand-drawn map, right? And it's got the layout of the inside of the house. It's coming from the top. The perspective is from Tia's bedroom. And you can see inside the house. You can see outside the house. It's very detailed, right?

And it's even got neighboring houses around it. This is the Lagor's house. This is the Effingham's house. Like, this is the abandoned house. This is this street. This is that street. But the piece that was really was put this investigation into effect was the house labeled My House. So they're like, OK, fine.

So somebody just drew a map for somebody to break into this house. And the map is right here. This house is labeled my house. So whoever drew this house lived in this house. Absolutely. So Jeff is dead. So we're going to take a wild guess and say it's not him. Mara's alive, but she's in pretty bad condition. So if it is her, she made a bad deal. Jeff is here and Tia's here.

Then they're like, OK, maybe it was Jeff. He just so happened to come home this day. He was pretty fucking calm when his parents were attacked and you were right there in the house when it happened. And then even when we questioned you afterwards, you weren't all shaken up, pretty stoic, pretty just real collected to have had a pretty traumatic tonight, to have had such a traumatic night. And then they're like, but then also there's Tia, who lives in the house, just got in a fight with her mom.

She's in love with this boy. So they decide they're going to start off talking to Tia. So is it one or the other? Were they both in cahoots? We're going to have to talk to them. So they're like, let's start with Tia. And they're talking to her and they're like, tell us some things. What's life at home like? Yada, yada. And they probably interrogated her maybe like an hour, right? And they're like, so let's get down to it. Did you have anything to do with your parents' murder?

She's like, "Of course not." She's kind of keeping her cool. And then they're like, "All right, I just wanted to share something with you." And they pull out the map. And Tia looks at that map and that map looks back at her. And she breaks and she's just like, "Okay." When she sees the map,

She breaks down. Okay, guys, I want to tell you everything. She says it was me. It was Jonathan. It was James. She started pointing fingers. They said they were going to kill my parents. We were fighting because, of course, me and Jonathan want to be together. And they told me that I had to draw a map. They said that they needed a map so that they knew where they were going. And I was like, I don't know if we should do that. And they were like, no, draw a map. So I drew them a map.

And she's like, I did it because Jonathan and I, we want to be together. I told him that my mama said that we couldn't be together. He said he would do whatever it took for us to be together. The police are like, okay, this is making sense, but it's also not making sense because if Jonathan wants to be with you, why is James in on it? They looking at James, they know that James ain't really been in no trouble. He comes from a good family. Like, and he knows that James is helping Jonathan get his life back on track, but like,

Why you out here murdering? So they're like, okay, we need to find James and Jonathan. Before they just roll up there, they start surveilling the place. And while they're surveilling James's house, a car drives away. It's James's parents because of course he lives with his parents. They're young.

They pull over their parents, talk to the parents, and his mom is like, my James is a good boy. Like, he's the type of person that will lend a helping hand to a friend in need. He's a good person. I think that he's a wonderful boy. Why do you ask? And they say, ma'am, do you know that your son is right now a suspect for Mr. Skinner's murder? And his parents are like, what? Are you serious?

My son, James? No. James would never. That's not like him at all. And they were like, well, Jonathan as well. And I'm sure you know Jonathan. She's like, yes, of course we know Jonathan.

And they're like, we need to talk to them. Do you know where they are? And she's like, James and Jonathan are always together. She's like, I'll call them and you guys can go find them and talk to them because there's no way that those boys did that. No way whatsoever. The police roll up, they find Jonathan and James. They were together and they were at a friend's house. So as soon as they take them downtown to the station, James is the first person they interview. And he's like, listen,

Here's what happened. We snuck into that house because Jonathan and that girl Tia are in love.

And he said we were about to stab her parents. I didn't want to, but then they said, oh, I would get $500 and I just got a kid and $500 is hard to come by. So like, I really needed that $500. And Jonathan said that it was because Tia's parents were being strict because Tia's parents were being a bitch and I didn't want to really participate at first. I really needed the money. I didn't stab anybody. Okay. I didn't stab anybody, but Jonathan, Tia, they did everything.

detectives they take down the statement and then James is like all right can I go home and they're like no sir no James you're not going home tonight it is the new year and if you are like me your new year's resolution probably means that you are trying to lose weight trying to go to the gym trying to eat more healthy you've probably gone on the internet and tried to search up healthy meals and then you go to the grocery store and you have no idea what you're looking at

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he's like yeah man Tia Tia wants to get revenge on her parents for forbidding him to see me and so like she asked us to go and kill them and I did because I loved her but it wasn't me like what do I want to kill them for so they're like okay one of y'all lying so they're like who's gonna tell us the truth them phone records so they pull up

Right. We all remember.

They also, through this text thread, find out that Tia agreed to pay Jonathan and James $1,000 to do the deed. And she was like, y'all can split it. And so then the police dig a little deeper, and they pull up text messages between Jonathan and James. They see Jonathan and James talking about how they gonna spend this stack. Yeah, bro, I'm gonna get me a PS3. Totes, man. Been wanting one of those real bad. Gonna play 2K and whoop your ass, right? Like...

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rocketmoney.com slash sisters. So to one of the detectives, she was like, it just ain't no way in hell. All of this is about her phone getting snatched, right? And if that's the case, if your mom took your phone, why kill your dad too? And she's like, maybe it's because Paul supported his wife on the decision and

And then, Jonathan, it don't make no sense for you to have done this, to have killed some people that you don't know. Have only met this girl for two weeks just because she asked you to and you love her. But Jonathan's been rejected a lot of times by his parents, by people who are supposed to support him. So he's grasping on the love at any place he can. And if this is what he's got to do to prove his love, then he'll prove it.

All three arrested and charged with first-degree murder, assault, attempted murder, and conspiracy to commit murder, and were all held without bond. On November 30th, 2010, that is when they had their preliminary hearing. And the preliminary hearing is when a lot of evidence gets laid out for the very first time.

When they're trying to figure out how the trial is going to be, they first have all three of them together and they all try to plead to have separate trials. And at this preliminary hearing, Mara and Jeff, they have to testify to what happened. And Mara tells her version of the events for the first time because maybe she has to tell her story over and over and over again later.

She talks about how she was asleep and she woke up to her husband shouting, hun, hun, about the feeling, the blows, about everybody screaming. She talks about how she couldn't see the attackers until the light was turned on. And she talks about grabbing the knife. Jeff talks about running upstairs and seeing his mom and his dad injured. And he also talks about how he yelled for his sister. His sister stayed in the basement. They talk about the moments later

that Paul ran after the attackers and then fell into his ultimate demise. And when the investigative chief, Regina, testifies, she talks about Tia's lack of concern, how when they spoke to her and they brought her in the car that she was talking about anything and everything in her own life other than her parents' death.

being severely injured. On December 15th, 2010, the 911 call became public. You know, that lets people go into a frenzy. And

People are really trying to figure out what's going to happen when Tia, James and Jonathan go to trial. Now, Tia's attorney talks to the public and Tia's attorney says they speak for themselves. And he said that he publicly wasn't going to say anything for the upcoming trial. And he said that it is appropriate that people be tried in the courts, which is.

Did you see on Snapped when her defense attorney was talking? I was like, man, spit it out. Did you see that? I was like, oh, my gosh. He is just babbling. I do not want him representing me. He was, oh, I would not want him. He must have been cheap. Or the public. He was the public defender. I know. You know they don't like it when you say that. I'm sorry.

Some people really do do their jobs. It be everybody else making everybody look bad. In April of 2011, Tia had a criminal responsibility psych evaluation, which revealed that she did struggle with attachment, but not enough to have had an attachment disorder. Marr testified in Tia, James, and Jonathan's trial, as did blood spatter experts who testified that

to saying that there was blood found all around the house and it was consistent with somebody who was actively bleeding, moving from bedroom to downstairs to on the porch and then coming back inside.

They also testified to finding blood-covered clothing and other items in James and Jonathan's house. On June 22nd of 2011, Jonathan's trial starts, and Jonathan apparently told his mom not to come, especially not to the sentencing, and she was just like, we're all heartbroken, not only for us, but for the other families involved. Jonathan's defense was that because of his delicate mental state,

At the time of the murder, he wasn't fully able to understand how serious his actions were. They said that he had a vulnerable state of mind and the whole situation, especially because he was going through a depression and taking medicine for it, he was taken advantage of, he was manipulated. It's not his fault. And honestly, why did you say yes so easy? That's my thing. Because honestly, you can say, hey girl, I'm not going to kill your parents. You could have said, listen girl, you tired...

I ain't do it if I did. But I don't know. He just said yes a little too easy. Like, now James goes to court on July of 2011.

James' dad went to the trial, but James' mom eventually stopped going because she said it was really, really rough for her. They said there was no question that James stabbed Paul. Remember, James at his first interview said that he didn't stab Paul, but actually his second interview, he admitted that he did stab him. So they're saying there's no question that he did it, but it doesn't mean that he's guilty of first-degree murder. It doesn't mean that he needs to spend the rest of his life in prison. They say that on the night of the murder...

They got in and James was like, I don't know. I don't think we should do this. And Jonathan, pointing the finger at Jonathan, he said, you either come with me or I will turn on you and I will turn on your baby daughter. And he's like, damn, you're going to put my kid into this? Like now you're threatening me. You're threatening my kid's life. He says that Paul rabbed onto him and he was trying to get away from Paul because Paul was strong. Like Paul was fighting for his family. And he said he was angry.

stressed out. He was under such duress that he was just stabbing and he stabbed and he stabbed and he stabbed Paul in the back. And what's really crazy about this entire thing is Mara, she knew James really well. They all did. They knew him from church, but also Mara coached him, was his coach when he was in middle school track.

You grew up and you almost killed me and killed my husband. That's crazy. Your coach, though? Like, it's not even a stranger who you can completely detach yourself. Like, this girl taught you and coached you?

Tia went to trial in August of 2011, and Mara, along with the rest of her family, were in the courtroom. Tia admitted to leaving the window open, but she said it was to air out the room because the dog had funked it up a little bit. The prosecutors alleged that Tia was the mastermind of this whole shebang, okay? Without Tia, James and Jonathan would have never broken into the home to begin with, and Paul would have never been murdered, and Mara would have never been attacked.

She's the one who laid out the time. She's the one who laid out the weapons. She's the one who concocted the plan. It's all fingers point to her. Mara testified in this trial about what led up to her husband's murder and the night of the murder itself. She talked about feeling a blunt force to her back. She talked about feeling, quote, a blunt force to the back of my neck. I was being attacked and my husband was being attacked. I was screaming. My husband's screaming.

Jeff testified at the trial and said on the night of the murder, Tia was making weird requests and going up and down stairs for no reason, getting him drinks and just not acting normal. Not acting crazy, but not acting normal. On August 16th of 2011, Tia was found guilty of all charges and given life in prison without parole.

Tia's attorney, John Lives, he says, it's just incredibly ironic that this whole plot begins in a church meeting. And the jury only took 45 minutes to find her guilty. Now, Tia, Jonathan and James were all sentenced on the same day.

and at the same time. So they all sat together in their orange jumpsuits on September 16th, 2011. This is the time, of course, for the victims to have their impact statement, for the families to speak, and for them to have their final words. James says, Your Honor, I have given you evidence and statements to show my innocence. Convicting me is an injustice, okay? The prosecution has failed to do that in my case. Like, this is...

Putting me away is not what you should do. I'm a good person. Jonathan addresses the court and he's like, listen, I'm sorry for what we did. He looks at the judge. The judge's name is Daniel Kelly. He said, listen, on behalf of everybody you put away for life, fuck you. I'm like, bro, for real? People be acting up to the judge. You saw that man that attacked that judge last week, this week? Did I? Yeah.

I sent it to you. You said Bailiff fired. Because how you let him hop his ass up here? He flew. Somebody interviewed Judge Judy and Judge Judy was like, I don't see how he got that far without being shot. Like, for real. Not shot. Judge Judy said, don't play about me. Kill him dead. Don't let him touch me. Tia gets up and she also speaks. She says, quote,

I wanted my parents to be able to live their lives. I fought with my parents as most teenagers would. I said something to a guy and he took it literally and he carried out the act. I wish I could go back before I got involved with this guy. She downplayed that heavy. Parents said about him. And most importantly, I wish I could have my family back. Unfortunately, none of those wishes will come true.

She said, I love my family so very much. And I realized I was given the best life I could have ever had. Of course you realize it now that you're about to lose it all. Right. Almost doesn't count, babes. The fact that you sitting here after the fact saying, I wish I would have listened to my parents and never left him alone. That's all they asked you to do. And because they asked you to do that, you killed them. And now you wishing you would have just listened because now you killed them.

Girl. What? Mara gets to speak. She has her victim impact statement and she says to all three of them, our screams and our cries for help went unanswered. You heard them and you chose not to stop. She then played a slideshow full of pictures of her husband, Paul, like his favorite moments, things, memories that they had so they could see exactly what happened.

Those three took away from her. And I bet you, I bet you she ain't put one picture of Tia in there. Like imagine your family going through all the pictures and they purposely took you out of all of them. I don't know if that happened, but like I would. I'd be petty enough. I'd be petty enough for you to be like, oh, yeah, that's when the family was. We all went on a trip to Florida. I know I was in this picture. I don't see myself edited out.

Photoshop do amazing things. Photoshop do amazing things. James felt like he should not go to jail for this crime. He really was asking the judge for an acquittal. And Mara turned to James and was like, listen, you found it easy to commit an unthinkable crime. Yet in the face of your evil choices, here you are. You still refuse to accept responsibility. Nah, bro, I'll put him away. An acquittal? An acquittal is a big ass. Like that's a big ass. Or something that you did.

Judge, I just want you to make it go away. No, no, babes. So the judge came back, all three of them, life without the possibility of parole. Now, remember, like, she was 17 at the time. She was tried as an adult. Those guys were like 18, 19. Their life is now gone. Tia's friends said that they could...

Never imagine like, you know, when you play like which friend is most likely to go away for murder. Tia wasn't that friend. OK, like it's crazy that this happened. And this is almost this is the first semester of their senior year. Like she ain't even going to go to a prom. She's not going to prom. She's not doing graduation. That full ride scholarship that she had gone gone.

She got a full ride to prison. 21st birthday, we'll never get to do it together. And I can, like, as a friend, especially if it's a friend that I least suspect, whew. You had a full ride. The fuck is you doing? Your Honor, like, this is a shocker to me, too.

Around July 12th of 2012, Tia gave an interview from jail. In this interview, she says that she regrets all of her decisions. And she said everything she did was awful. The act was awful. The thought was awful. It was just all awful. She even stated that she was having second thoughts on the night of the murder.

Never would I have thought that these two boys would have gone against what I said. I just wonder how everything could have been flipped upside down so quick. And I never would have thought that I'd be the one to orchestrate something to hurt my family because my family is people I'd protect. In the interview, she even talked about hearing her mom and dad scream while Jeff tried to save them and she was still in the basement. She said it sounded awful to me. It literally made my heart break into two to hear my dad like that.

I think it was just awful. I just had such a bad temper, and I took it out on somebody who didn't deserve it, somebody who took care of me. She said, I was hoping both of them would pull through. That was the biggest thing. I hoped both of them would pull. What you got on your knees and prayed? Dear God, make me a bird so I can fly far, far away. I think by not putting $1,000 on the bed, that was her way of saying, it's off. Like, if I don't pay them, they ain't going to do it. And these two dumbasses was like, ow.

Spit the gas. The knives were on the bed. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. The window frame thing was cut. You know how, like, we be like, we gonna record at 5 a.m.? And you'll be prepared to record at 5 a.m.

But if I don't call you, you're not going to wake up. You prepared for my call. But if you'd be like, if you sleep in, I'm going to sleep in. You know what I mean? Like you prep for it, but you just leave. It's like a podcast. We're not committing murder. They're not making good decisions. Still. None of this is logical. First of all, I call you.

In the morning sometimes. Sometimes. So that everybody knows. Sometimes. And sometimes she be like, you don't say nothing, I won't say nothing. Somebody emailed us, somebody tweeted us last week talking about some, ooh, the one day I was hoping y'all wouldn't post on time because I said, if y'all don't post by this time, I'm not going to the gym. And damn it, I got to go to the gym. Damn, so sorry. She ended the interview by saying she hopes that one day she will be free and

and she wants everybody to know that she is so sorry that this happened. She said, quote, I believe everybody deserves a second chance in life. Not this time, her mom, nor any other part of her family, her friends, nobody has tried to reach out to her since her arrest. She said, it's been rough. It's hard losing your whole family in the blink of an eye. It's tough because that's my family. They're supposed to stay by you through thick and thin. I said, bitch.

No, you didn't. I killed my dad and my whole family disappeared. Like, what's that about? She said that she felt that 20 years would be a proper sentence for her role in the murder and the attack.

Now, she did file a few appeals. Her first appeal was on November 2018 on the grounds that she was 17 years old when the crimes were committed. And it just became unconstitutional for minors to automatically be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. So her trial, so her case was about to go in front of the judge again.

She goes and the judge says, actually, your appeal is denied because it just depends on certain circumstances. And your crimes were pretty bad. And he says, it doesn't matter. Justice demands that you serve not one day less than your life without the possibility of parole. Tia is standing before the judge and is like, listen, I am the coward that everybody says that I am. I'm sorry. Like, I...

I shouldn't have done it. I was a part of it, but I do deserve a chance at life. Her lawyer says, listen, the murder was egregious. The murder was incomprehensible, but she was young. She had no prior criminal record. She was a good kid. There has to have some type of chance for her to see freedom again.

Her uncle gets up and testifies about why he thinks that she needs to stay behind bars for the rest of his life. The judge goes on and says, listen, you were raised in a very privileged lifestyle. Yes, you had maybe a rough couple of years, but those white folks gave your little black ass the best life you could have ever had. OK, you were privileged.

You took advantage of everything that they gave you and you committed this crime without thinking about the consequences. You ain't have no peer pressure. They didn't just tell you to draw the map and you drew the map. No, you're not a follower. You a leader. Appeal number one denied. So she ends up going in front of this judge two more times.

For a total, like, she's at her third, she's at three appeals at this time. And each time she's getting life, I couldn't imagine the same judge over and over and over again. And each time, life without parole. Life without parole. Like, he has sentenced her three times to life without parole. And her lawyers are like, listen, we want the jury. Somebody's got to look into that. Like, where's the checks and balances here? Like, what?

There's nobody else to look at this? Well, and so that's when they asked for a jury to be in panel because they were like, listen, we feel like it's constitutionally required. And the courts were like, don't agree. They filed, and so then they filed another appeal on that basis. So the court of appeals was like, listen, the default sentence for a juvenile convicted of first-degree murder is a term of years. In order to increase that sentence to life without parole, a prosecutor must make a motion and factual findings necessary

must be made as to the defendant's immaturity, their family and home environment, how they were handled and contacted with their lawyers, police and prosecution. And they stated that Tia's irreparable corruption must be proven to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt in sentencing. And her lawyer is like...

We want the jury to consider a time of 25 years to 60 years instead of life without parole. They said Ms. Skinner is incredibly sorry for what she did, and she's trying to do everything in her power to make herself a better person. And the prosecution plans to appeal this decision to the Michigan State Supreme Court. She received a valid sentence three times in a row now, and it's horrible to put the victims through this over and over again.

Our office is not focused on who she is or what her age is. It's what she did. And what she did was first degree premeditated murder. And like, it's not just about like having her back there, but Mara has to get up there and testify every time these appeals go on. And so she's like, it's been seven years and I've had to testify about this three different times. They try to make me do it a fourth. Like, stop. It's traumatizing.

Not to mention the three times that she has to do it initially because they got their trial separated. And then you had to tell that the preliminary hearing, like I'm tired of telling this story of how I was so how I was damn near killed and I lost my husband. I'm tired of telling it. It's not a fun story to tell.

The judge, David Saar, said there was no need to authorize a child court to impose a sentence of life without parole. The only factual finding necessary to authorize a child court to impose a sentence of life without parole was that the defendant's involvement in the killing of her father constituted first-degree murder, and they said that it did. After all this went down, Mara, of course, couldn't live in the house, so she moved in with her brother shortly after. From this event, it was traumatizing.

if she would hear something in the night, she would jump out of bed. She said every night she was scared. She would call her daughter in the middle of the night. She's like, "Somebody's on the roof. Somebody's on the roof. I can hear somebody." And they're like, "Nobody's there." Like, she's really thinking. She can't sleep at night.

She constantly thought that somebody was going to get her. She started having suicidal ideations and she started therapy because she found herself in a completely dark spot. She said at the time that she wasn't thinking, but in the back of her mind, she was like, I need to talk to somebody. Like, I need to talk to a counselor. Like, things are really not going well since all of this happened.

I don't know, like the back of her mind told her she needed to. So she called the hospital where she spent weeks, got a recommendation and started therapy. After a while, she decided to turn her pain into a purpose. She started working with the St. Clair County Victims Rights Office in Michigan. And then she decided that she was going to start her own nonprofit called P.S. You're My Hero. P.S., of course, standing for Paul Skinner.

They have annual walks and runs to raise money for service animals and counseling packages and comfort rooms, anything to help victims that are just coming out of a very traumatic experience. She does eventually get remarried and she does have a new last name. I believe she hyphenated it because I would if my first husband died. Yeah, I'm keeping it. So sorry.

And now that she's married, she lives in Port Huron. She, of course, still has a wonderful relationship with all three of her children, her two biological children and adopted son, Jeff. She did take a break from teaching, and I'm sure you can understand why. And now she is a grandma. Both Kathy Preston, James' mom, and Barbara Kurtz, Jonathan's mom, are both heartbroken over everything that has happened.

Kathy says that she, too, has suicidal thoughts and nervous breakdowns and eventually needed a prescription to cope with everything. And she uses writing as a form of therapy. She's working. She at the time was working on a book called What Went Wrong? A Mother's Perspective. I wonder if it's a good read. She says she isn't exactly sure why James helped in this crime, but the devil and jealousy had to have played a part.

Why jealousy? The devil, yes. But why jealousy? Maybe because James was single and didn't have this love. I don't know. I don't know. That doesn't really... I don't know. I don't know why jealousy. I'm gonna look up this book. She also said that when she and her husband read the messages between James and Jonathan about how they wanted to buy a PS3...

After they had murdered Paula Morris, she was like, at this point, I know Jonathan must have sent those messages from my son's phone in order to set him up. Like, no way that's my James talking about buying a PS3 with murder money. She said when James first got arrested, she could hardly breathe.

And James' dad, George, is also in denial about his son's involvement and says he has a hard time watching old John Wayne movies because that's what they did together. He said, I don't know what I'll believe until I get to heaven and ask God. Oh, I can't watch my John Wayne. Like, come on now. This is traumatized.

I don't know. I'm gonna have to wait till I get to heaven and ask. James is now held at the Muskegon Correctional Facility. Jonathan is at the Baraga Maximum Facility. And Tia is at the Huron Valley Women's Complex. They are going to be there for the rest of their lives. Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and you say, wow, you are so beautiful?

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swk25 at checkout we will have a link in the description box below all right y'all it's time for well i'm not black i'm oj i didn't do it but if i did this is how i would have got away with it first up i ain't do it but if i did i would have waited till i turned 18 and just moved out the house

That's a whole like year from now. She's in the very beginning of her first semester. She's not going to college for another year. You and if you if you want to sit there and have no parents so bad at 18, move up out the house and you and Jonathan figure it out. Hmm. Listen, I don't know. She wasn't going to do that at her 18. She was it was her senior year of high school.

You killing your parents? You don't want to be with them anyways? Just move out. First of all, I don't know why she's killing her parents. Like, that's why I guess I'm still operating under the assumption that you wouldn't be killing your parents.

No, she is. And so if that's your choice, if you're down to the point where they've got to die, get the fuck up out their house. I don't know. When you're a teenager, you feel like the whole world is wrapped up into this person, especially when you're a teenager in love doing stupid shit. And it's really never worth it. It's really not even worth, like, the argument with your parents. It just feels good to have a little drama in your life. I ain't do it, but if I did, James, I wouldn't have done it, babes.

I would have told somebody. I think I would have snitched. If you keep telling me that you're going to kill somebody, I think if they weren't, they were out of school, weren't they? These people just weren't smart. I ain't do it, but if I did, I wouldn't have wrote a note of quick tips on how you can kill my parents. That looks very premeditated. FYI. I ain't do it, but if I did, I would not have left a map outside. I know she wouldn't expect to see that.

And she was like, Nichols, I did all the work for you just for you to screw it up at the end. I laid the knives out. I cut the screen. Kids are so stupid because what was she actually expecting to happen? And where was she actually about to get $1,000? She knew she had some scholarship money coming in in a year, girl. FYI. I ain't do it, but if I did, if my brother Jeff pops up,

for an impromptu visit, I wouldn't say, "No, it must happen tonight." I would say, "It's off. It's off. My big brother is here." That, like, come on now. But I think she was like, "Oh, my brother is here. I've got an alibi." I was downstairs with him the whole time. And that's stupid teenage thinking. Like, what? Our parents are dead. Not just that, our adoptive parents that gave us this amazing life. I ain't do it, but if I did,

I wouldn't be planning this at church. Y'all going straight to hell. Straight to hell. Y'all did it at the church. She ain't had no other way because her phone was taken. If you swiped your phone to text him, why you ain't swipe your phone to text him other days? You should have just been emailing him so you had somebody to talk to. You should have just called me, girl. I could have told you. 2010? You only a couple years older than me. Girl, you're...

In 2010, I had my phone taken by my mom and was sending them emails. I would have found something to communicate. You was there in the AIM days. You know how this go. Come on. You acting like there was no other way that you could talk to this white boy. I ain't do it, but if I did, if the $1,000 wasn't there, I wasn't going to do it. Why? Not at all. I ain't do it, but if I did, not doing it for $1,000.

And not doing it for some girl I met two weeks ago. They were in love. You have to understand. I can't. I just remember even like all the romances and times that I thought that I was in love. And none of those times I was like, you need to kill for me. Okay. I need you to murder somebody. Even in high school, like, and I was doing some wild shit with the person that I was in love with in high school. And at no point did I go to him and I was like, okay, okay.

Here's what I need you to do so that we can be together forever. You just snuck around on the weekends like a regular kid. Right. Sneak out of the house, babes. Skip school. Skip class. Come on. That's exactly what I mean. He was out of school, didn't have no car because that's exactly what I would have done. I would have started skipping school, especially if you already got your scholarship. You think you said you don't really realize. Right.

Just like those dudes on the football team, right? You don't really realize that you still need all your grades because you think you got your full ride and you good to go. I would have started sneaking out of school to go see my man. That's what I would have done. No murder needed. All right. Parole or no parole? She didn't get parole. I probably haven't heard about her doing anything except for appeals. So I don't know what work she's done to deserve parole.

if it were an option but it's not but that's got to be crazy to go to jail for life at the age of 17 you didn't even get to live you didn't even get to live i remember when i was watching like orange is the new black and they were like i'm sitting here in my early 20s my body is looking amazing right now nobody will ever see it i think just as a woman that would fuck me up

Like, she just became an adult. And you will never do adult things. Ever. Ever. Like, her friends said, you missed out on prom. You missed out on turning 21. You missed out on graduating, college, like, all this shit. You fucked it all up. And it's crazy because, like, we were fully expecting to do that together. We had plans next week. You didn't tell me you was going to kill your parents this week, girl. I would have told you something. Girl. I would have told you not to. Yeah.

I don't know. I feel like she should serve, like, 30 years. She didn't do nothing before this, but, like, you got to serve a little over. I feel like they should give her 25 to life, and then maybe after, like, 30 years. And you got to see what your mama say, because you set her up, too. That's how I feel. The boys, James. Damn, James. He was collateral damage, my boy. That sucks. I don't know.

You swung a weapon, babes. I think you got to keep your life. Jonathan, baby, you just got to stay in there. Keep your life. Mm-hmm. And James don't want to accept no responsibility. He damn sure ain't getting out. Right. Like, you really didn't have to be involved in this. And I think that's why he's like, I feel like I shouldn't be here. You shouldn't have been there. You absolutely shouldn't have been there. And now look at you, where you shouldn't have been because you were where you shouldn't have been. Mm-hmm. All right. That's it. That's all I got. You want to read some reviews and go home?

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