Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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How are you doing tonight, Aaron?
I'm doing just fine. How are you? I'm doing okay. All right, Aaron. We're going on a cruise. Yeah, who predicted this, right? Not me. I definitely wasn't going to ever put that on my bucket list, but here we are, and we're super excited. Oh, yeah. Exhibit C is going to do a true crime cruise. It's happening January 26th through the 30th, 2026. It's leaving out of Miami, Florida to Nassau in the Bahamas.
It's going to be super fun, right? Wondery's exclusive voyage offers fans unprecedented access to their favorite podcast hosts, true crime experts, and interactive workshops. The full lineup was just announced. Obviously, we're on it. So we're super excited to be on board. But make sure you sign up for the presale before March 3rd to secure your spot and get the best choice of cabin. Where do they get the information? Go
Go to ExhibitCCruise.com for all the details. But if you're a Wondery Plus subscriber and you're listening to us on Wondery Plus right now, you can get special perks on board. So cool. Go out to ExhibitCCruise.com and sign up today.
And I'd like to take this time to ask people, do you listen to Generation Y with family or friends, or do you discuss the episodes later after listening? We recently got an email from Steven. He was telling us how his mom had passed this year, but she had been listening to Generation Y. At his suggestion to help her through a tough time, I just wanted to say thank you because
It's just interesting how many times over the years we've heard from people who say, I listen with my brother, I listen with my mother, with my aunt, or the siblings get together and listen sometimes. And, you know, it's good to hear. And it's also nice to hear that somehow our soothing voices, our cadence is soothing to people who need that at the end of the day or if they're going through a tough time. So a shout out to Stephen and his mother, Mary.
So tonight's case, Aaron, is a pretty gruesome one and still unsolved. So it's not one I'd heard of before and was pretty shocked when I was reading up on it. What are we talking about tonight? Yeah, this is a case out of Jamesville, New York. It happened in 1996. And it really kicks off when a fisherman who was driving near the Jamesville Reservoir found a woman lying on the ground.
And she appeared to have suffered massive injuries to her pelvic region. And this woman was still alive, but unable to talk. When they found out who she was, she turned out to be Carol Ryan, a 42-year-old local woman. And we're going to dive into this case and tell you more about it. Yeah.
So Carol Ryan was born July 4th, 1954. Her maiden name was Carol Paul. She grew up in Boylston, New York in a large family. She was one of seven siblings. Several of her siblings moved away in adulthood and they lost touch.
Carol's sister, Kathy Lane, who has spoken to several news outlets about this case, sadly passed away in June of 2022. Carol went to school in Sandy Creek, the next town over from Boylston. She participated in the school chorus. She had one child, a son named Sean Hamilton. He was 25 when his mother died.
Sean's father is a man named Clark Hamilton. Sean said he never met his dad and was raised by his mother and his grandmother, Edith Paul. According to the Syracuse Herald Journal, Carol remarried years later and got divorced. Sean said he grew up all over the place. He was close with his mother. And according to Sean, everybody said we were more like brother and sister. So, you know, it's...
A different dynamic, but Sean only has good things to say about his mother. Carol's ex-husband was a man named Patrick Ryan. And according to his obituary, Patrick was born in Syracuse. He was in the Marine Corps. He was a veteran. He had earned a Purple Heart twice. Carol and Patrick got married in the mid-70s.
They were together for 10 years and Sean said, "Pat Ryan was a pretty brutal man. He liked to put his hands on people. He liked to smack my mom around and he liked to smack me around a lot. He did this up until I was 17 years old, till finally that's when I had enough and I moved out." Sean said that Carol didn't just take the abuse.
Yeah, I guess that means she probably fought back in some way, either through words or physically. We just don't know what that was. But Carol worked on and off at local factories. At the time of her death, though, she was unemployed. And she was living at the Grant Village Apartments in Eastwood. That's a neighborhood in Syracuse. She had no roommates, but she did have a cat. And neighbors reported that Carol Ryan was very quiet.
Now, a big moment in Carol's life was when her mother, Edith Paul, died of heart failure January 20th, 1996. And because of this, it was said that Carol started to drink more. And according to her son, Sean, she was pulled over and got another DWI and it was just kind of downhill from there.
So people started trying to help Carol with this. Sean said he started to try and talk to his mother much more often. He tried to lend whatever support he could because he could tell she was depressed.
And this, you know, life's not going her way. And as we know, people will self-medicate or try to numb the pain with drugs and alcohol. So this is kind of making her spiral. On August 27th, 1996, just five days before her death, Carol and her son attended a Jethro Tull show together at the New York State Fair's grandstand. Now, Carol loved rock music. She loved dancing.
And it said that her favorite performers were Bob Seger, Black Sabbath, and Lynyrd Skynyrd. Carol was making plans for a family reunion the day before she died. And she spoke to her sister on the phone the morning of Saturday, August 31st. And she told her sister that she wanted to have a cookout at her son's house on September 1st.
And it, you know, it seemed like she was in a good mood, but she did tell her sister that she missed her mom. And Carol spoke to her sister almost every week. Uh, Kathy Lane told the post standard anytime she had a problem, it was me. She called.
So regardless of the distance and whatever with this family, they seem to be there for each other, especially the ones that are still in touch. So Carol is supposed to have this cookout at her son's house on September 1st.
But on August 31st, Carol goes bar hopping in Syracuse and Eastwood. She was seen at the Dinosaur Barbecue in Syracuse around midnight and five witnesses saw her from midnight to 1230 a.m.
Uh, Carol then went to pros grill, which is a small dye bar on Willow street in Syracuse. The bar later be torn down. Uh, but you know, it seems like she's kind of just going from one place to another, a witness named Donna booth saw Carol at pros grill, uh,
Donna said she was having a few beers, just like the other patrons and witnesses saw her there from 1230 to one 15 AM. And at around one 30 AM, Carol was seen at the East room bar in Eastwood, uh,
This place is now a Middle Eastern restaurant or something. East Room is an eight to 10 minute drive from Pro's Grill. So Carol most likely hitchhiked because she didn't have a car and her license was suspended at the time. It's thought that she most likely did not catch a bus at that late hour. Buses probably weren't running. So it's common for her to hitchhike around is what is implied here.
Several witnesses saw her there. The bartender who served Carol said she seemed happy and was playing pool with other people. No one appeared to be bothering her or following her. So this is the last time it seems that she was kind of seen, right? Yeah, this is the final moment where people are seeing her. I mean, at the end of the night, Carol offered to take everyone in the bar to breakfast and
She wanted to pay for it with a disability check she'd just gotten from Social Security insurance for a chronic lung problem. But when she left the bar at 2 a.m., she left alone. That's when the bar closed. There were two witnesses who said they saw Carol hitchhiking westbound on James Street. That street runs from Eastwood back to downtown Syracuse.
And it's possible Carol was trying to get a ride home, but her apartment was just a short walk away. It's also possible that she was trying to get a ride downtown, perhaps to go to breakfast. She had offered to take everyone to breakfast and maybe she did that hoping she'd get a ride.
Now, one of the witnesses who saw her was Cindy Charvala, who spoke to the police a week after Carol was killed. She was out driving and initially thought Carol was a man, but then thought, no, that's probably a woman. And she felt guilty because...
She could have offered her a ride. And according to former Onondaga County Sheriff Eugene Conway, Carol was hitchhiking when two women in a car saw her. She was last seen wearing a silver shirt, black jeans, black boots, silver jewelry, and a black fringe jacket. Her clothing, shoes, and necklace have never been located. Now it's September 1st, 1994. Carol Ryan was found beaten, naked, and dying in the driveway.
This is early morning. This is a compost site off Route 91 across the street from the Jamesville Reservoir.
A local fisherman was driving by and saw her body at 6.20 a.m. This fisherman spoke to the Syracuse Herald Journal in August of 97. He asked that his name not be published because he worried that the killer would incorrectly think Carol told him his name. The fisherman said he saw a naked body laying face down in the paved driveway outside
At first, he thought it was a young person who went skinny dipping and passed out from drinking, somebody partying. He continued driving, but turned around and came back to help because the person wasn't moving. He then realized the person was a woman with an open wound on her buttocks and pelvic region. She wasn't moving, so he thought she was dead, possibly from a car accident.
He saw her move a little once he got close enough to see what was going on. Yeah. So this fisherman, he ran to a nearby security office to call 911, then returned to the scene. He got on his knees about three feet from this woman. He told her help was coming and asked for her name repeatedly, but he said she could only respond with sluggish moans of pain. So obviously she's trying to answer him, but he couldn't understand her.
He also asked, what happened to you? Now the fisherman's looking at her and he sees that her eyes are swollen shut, her face is bruised. Pieces of straw or dried grass were tangled in her hair and on her back. It did not match anything in the immediate area. This woman tried to move but couldn't turn her head. After seeing her injuries, this fisherman thought she had been shot.
According to the Syracuse Herald Journal, there are no homes near this compost station. County highway employees were working at a highway garage a few hundred yards down from the driveway entrance on the east side of Route 91. First responders saw that the woman's head was severely beaten and she had cuts and a crushed pelvis. They did not know right away what had caused these injuries.
She was taken to the Upstate University Hospital and went immediately into emergency surgery, but she would die five hours later. So these are severe injuries. They're trying to figure out what they are. They're thinking she got hit by a car, which that makes sense because waist high, if you're hit by a car or if you're run over.
But this is still kind of a mystery to what happened to her. But they are suspecting foul play. Dr. Mary Jumbalik is the retired chief medical examiner for Onondaga County. She was deputy chief medical examiner at the time and examined the victim before and after death. Now, the woman was alive when the police first approached Dr. Jumbalik. They wanted her opinion on what had caused the wound.
And this medical examiner said in an interview with Syracuse.com, there was so much tissue damage that it defied a reasonable explanation. So according to Dr. Jumlick's notes,
The woman had mouth injuries from pressure or punches. She had marks on her nipples. Dr. Jumbalik tried to identify if those were bite marks. She said that the marks were potentially caused by clips. The woman had a lot of scrapes on her arms and legs. She had been dragged based on the marks on her back and buttocks. The blast injuries were concentrated in the pelvic region. Her bladder was destroyed and the bones were opened up completely. There were also injuries to the lungs,
rib fractures and rib bruising, this could have been caused by the explosion itself. Because at this point, it's starting to look like there was a bomb involved. Other things stood out to Dr. Jambalik, such as a regurgitated piece of potato in the woman's esophagus.
And no one knows what Carol did between 2 a.m. and 5.30 a.m. It's possible she ended up at a 24-hour diner. I mean, at this point, they're still trying to track down if she had been anywhere else, if there were any other witnesses to explain where she had gone or possibly what could have happened to her. So when it came down to it, Dr. Jumbalik listed the cause of death as multiple blunt force injuries, which
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Yeah. But when you are treating somebody, you have to clean them up and get them prepared for surgery. And so her body was flushed before surgery, which could have washed away key evidence. Another issue was the fact that it was an outdoor crime scene. So what's going on outside? Well, you have all the elements and everything. So if there's footprints, if there's any,
Any sort of residue. I mean, morning dew, just a little bit of water or anything can wash away anything and degrade DNA evidence. So they had to identify this woman, and this was accomplished by using fingerprints. When they found out it was Carol Ryan, they discovered she had a history of drunk driving arrests, which is why her prints were already in the system.
So...
Two of Carol's rings were found at the scene. One ring was a 10-carat gold band with two small green stones and a small diamond. The other was a white opal with a white gold band. One ring was on Carol's finger. The other one was on the ground beside her. Carol's red ruby ring was missing. So if this was a robbery, which would be a very odd situation,
I mean, they took one ring or maybe that ring is just missing, meaning it got blown away by whatever caused this incident. So this is the detectives trying to figure out what the motive was here.
Yeah, Carl Kruger was the lead detective. He told Syracuse.com that at first detectives couldn't figure out what kind of weapon was used, saying, I remember some bloodstains and these red paper fragments that didn't make sense to us. You know, we're going, what the heck is this? Then we went, oh my God, that's firework fragments. And I'm sure many of you have used fireworks. You know what that looks like after they explode. There are those paper fragments left over.
Former Onondaga County Sheriff Eugene Conway told Syracuse.com that the crime scene was not in pristine condition because emergency responders had to transport Carol to the hospital. And that could have compromised potential evidence. You know, they're trying to save her life. If she had already been deceased, then maybe they could have locked the scene down and done a better job of collecting that evidence. But they were trying to save her life.
Another problem was the fact that many of the witnesses who saw Carol early on September 1st had been drinking themselves. So whether or not they're remembering what exactly happened, who she was talking to, who she was with, it's a little fuzzy.
But the sheriff's detectives will question about six people, but they didn't have any suspects here. And four days later, September 4th, investigators searched the Jamesville reservoir to look for Carol's clothing or any weapons.
And September 13th, the sheriff's department sent information to the FBI for review. The FBI agent said they'd never seen another homicide where someone was killed in this manner.
So this is, they're figuring out that this was an explosion, an internal explosion that blew its way out of her body. Yeah, it's September 17th, 1996, when they announced that Carol Ryan had been killed by an explosive device that was inserted into her vagina, then detonated. This explosive device had the strength of a quarter stick of dynamite.
And according to the Syracuse Herald-Journal, Carroll's injuries were so gruesome that emergency room workers received counseling afterwards. And they don't have any suspects. This is horrifying to me, Aaron. I mean, you see horrible things in scary movies that Saw or something that could...
Compared to this, but this is the first time I've ever really heard about somebody dying in this manner, especially in the United States. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't think of anything either. And, you know, the medical examiner's office in this case determined that not only was there an explosive device involved, but before it was used, Carol Ryan was badly beaten. So obviously whoever did this, their motive was to torture Carol Ryan and destroy her.
So that sounds very personal. So they're trying to figure out what device was used. So they sent the fragments to the ATF, which determined that it was an M-80 style recreational explosive. A sheriff's detective sent blood and what they believed could be semen to the state police lab.
to determine if the fluids could implicate a North Syracuse man in the murder. So they have some ideas, they're looking at some people in this case. The samples came back from behind the dashboard and seat of a 1985 Crown Victoria owned by the man. So they found somebody and they found something what they thought was blood and semen, they send it in.
However, the sheriff said, it's looking less and less likely he's involved. So whoever this man was, they thought he had a connection and they found some stuff in his car that they felt was suspicious, but it didn't seem to pan out. The man was one of more than 100 people who had been interviewed. After the murder, he told several people that he had beaten and killed a woman, but it was the wrong one.
Now, when he's asked about this, he tells the detectives he was just joking. But deputies obtained a warrant to search his car. He was arrested on September 2nd on a felony weapon possession charge. He was found with a shotgun, but was prohibited from having one because he had felony convictions. And Sheriff Walsh said that Carroll knew several people with long criminal records. Detectives interviewed several people and had ruled them out.
By January of 97, detectives had interviewed 200 people and tracked down 250 to 300 leads. They're doing their due diligence here because she had gone to multiple bars and possibly ended up at a breakfast restaurant.
So they're going through all of this, questioning everybody. Sheriff Conway said that they were looking at half a dozen people and the FBI was putting together a profile of the killer. And detectives looked into the possibility that a man named John B. Andrews Jr. was involved. Andrews was accused of killing two Drayton High School cheerleaders.
However, Conway said that they did not have any information that Andrews was in the area during this murder. Andrews was eventually cleared and later killed himself by hanging in jail. So if Andrews was the murderer, he's gone now. But according to the investigation, they're saying it doesn't sound like he was involved.
In 1997, the Herald Journal reported that the Sheriff's Department believed that a potential witness might return to the area only on Labor Day weekend each year. So they hoped publicity about the anniversary would prompt someone to call in, and the authorities said they needed help. They admitted...
They had a very hot lead, but they wouldn't disclose what that was. According to District Attorney Bill Fitzpatrick, the manner of death suggested a sinister mind, and it may have been a statement from someone who hates women. Anytime there's mutilation to the genitalia, you have to think of some type of intense rage directed against the gender in general, as opposed to this person specifically. So it seems like they're trying to say,
This may not be personal against Carol Ryan, but just personal against women. And in 1998, Sheriff Sergeant Jim Radella revealed that a very, very hot lead didn't end up panning out. So they thought they had something. They were keeping it close to the vest.
They did their due diligence, you know, they looked into it and now they're realizing they're not gaining as much ground as they thought they had. Yeah. And Sergeant Rinella said that they had interviewed four to 500 people in the first months of the investigation.
I mean, nothing panned out here. All of their hot leads, all of their call-ins, nothing here. So this obviously is big news in the area. People are afraid, especially because of the manner of death. Carol's sister, Kathy Lane, spoke to the press and said she had heard about a man bragging that he had killed a woman. She found his information and turned him in to the police.
But this was another false lead. And what's going on with all these men bragging about murdering women, Aaron? Like that's just messed up. Yeah, we know that when horrible things happen, sometimes people brag and try to act like they're involved, but it's just talk.
About two to three weeks into the investigation, there was a man that called into the sheriff's criminal investigations unit and left what would be incriminating statements or evidence. Investigators spent a week locating and then interviewing him, and his story turned out to be fake. And in another instance, a woman called the sheriff's department with a license plate number from a car she claimed to have seen near the crime scene, but it ended up she was just trying to get her ex-partner in trouble. So a lot of...
You know, I'd say these are speed bumps for the police. They're trying to get ahead in the investigation and literally the some in the public are slowing them down. Yeah. So it's September of 2000. It was reported that the police were investigating a potential new lead out of northern West Virginia.
Sandra Motes, a writer for the Pimsborough News, said the paper received an anonymous letter saying the killer was living in the area. The letter described a case similar to the murder of Carol Ryan. Now, according to Motes, the letter did not name Carol, but described her as being beaten, blown up, and left for dead. So this...
matches the elements of this crime, but it's not exactly stated if it had anything in this letter that would be more than what the public already knew. But this is a lead. Yeah, Onondaga County got a copy of this, but West Virginia State Police were sending them the original, which they were going to check for prints. And according to Sheriff Sergeant Don Richards, the police had a suspect
but he declined to say where they thought the suspect was. Investigators were also redoing DNA and other testing to see if they could find new leads. 2001, the county crime lab was reexamining evidence for possible DNA testing. Investigators still had their suspect, but not enough evidence to arrest them.
And investigators told Carol's sister, Kathy Lane, that she did not know the suspect. So this is somebody that's not close to the family, nobody that was intimate with anyone. So maybe a stranger that she had just run into that night.
So if you're wondering who potential persons of interest are in the case, Syracuse.com produced a documentary titled Firecracker. And in it, they explain how during the investigation, Carol's neighbors told the police that she had been having loud fights at her home with her ex-boyfriend, Bobby McGee. Carol's son, Sean, said he knew Bobby and did not like him.
Bobby was one of the first people approached by police. Detective Carl Kruger spent a few hours talking to him and said he was brought in half a dozen times after that to be interviewed.
The police were trying to understand if he had an alibi, but they were still looking at other people. They weren't just focused on McGee. Another person of interest was Carol's ex-husband, Patrick Ryan, who later died in 2006. He was a retired truck driver and was married at the time of his death. Carol's boyfriend, Walt Krakowski, was also questioned. Carol had been staying with Walt a couple months before she died.
Some squirrels got in his house and Carol was upset because Walter used a quarter stick of dynamite to blow the squirrels up. Red flag. Yeah, that's anyone can buy explosives like firecrackers and stuff. But right there is where I think there's a connection. It's like, oh, you were shot with this caliber of gun and then you find somebody with that caliber of gun.
It's a connection. It doesn't mean they did it, but for someone to have, you know, M 80s or quarter sticks of dynamite and then their ex or significant other dies by that manner. To me, it's a huge clue. Yeah. Something needs to be looked into, but you know, detective Carl Kruger said Walter was more of a platonic friend than a boyfriend.
They looked into Walter, but determined he probably had no motive or reason to want Carol dead. And when they spoke with him, he seemed devastated by her murder. Now, District Attorney William Fitzpatrick said that a full sexual assault kit was completed, but because of the damage to Carol's genital area, they couldn't find any evidence. So, you know, I just, I like this due diligence. They're
I'm sure some people would have said, there's no point in doing this kit. But I mean, I like that they're doing this. It shows that they care. If they could find anything, it's because they're looking for it. So here we are, you know, they're looking at strangers to her. They're looking at people that were close to her.
But they're all very divided on this motive. Some believe that the killer knew Carol. However, DA Fitzpatrick believes it could have been a stranger who Carol met that night.
And as we know, if somebody's coming on to you and you rebuff them, things can go south real quick. They're talking about people that were close to her, friends, ex-boyfriends. Again, if there was some jealousy, if there was some conflict there.
It could have turned bad, but the atrocity of this seems to be more personal. But is it personal against her or is it personal against women in general?
Yeah, this detective said in the documentary, in fact, it suggests just the opposite to me. If it was somebody that knew Carol and had planned on killing her, even in a sadistic manner, I don't think it would have been done at that location where detection could be so readily available because of the nature of the traffic there. It seems to me it would have been better planned out. This is just somebody that encountered Carol, in my judgment, that night and just hates women.
So he's using his experience and his instincts to come up with this angle. What he believes is the true motive for the murder of Carol Ryan. Yeah. And I get it. I think it could go either way. I, I don't know if this murder was planned or if it just happened. So therefore it doesn't matter if it's a stranger or somebody she knows, because if it just happened in the moment, then,
location doesn't dictate if it was a known assailant or an unknown assailant to Carol. So he thinks it was someone who saw her out and he thinks the encounter could have occurred at the East room bar. Now the police, they did focus a bit on a man who was at that bar at the same time as Carol.
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According to Detective Kruger, some things came to light that brought the spotlight on this man, obviously. Everyone was asked what time they left the bar and what time they got home. The man said he got home at around 10. They found out that he lied about his alibi and his girlfriend lied to the police for him. The girlfriend admitted she lied when she was interviewed a second time.
So in this canvassing and speaking to all these people,
They're clearing people because they say, were you at the bar at this time? And if somebody says, no, I went home, well, you get cleared. But then on this follow-up, they start saying, oh, well, you did talk to her. You said you left, and now we know you didn't. Kruger said that during the initial investigation, the news reports that a female victim was found. Carol was unidentified on September 1st.
This man was at his friend's mother's house and saw the news and made the comment that I was drinking with her at the East Room last night. So he puts himself there at the same time as her. Yeah, I mean, how does he know that he was drinking with that specific person? Yeah. I mean, they didn't release a name or a picture yet. It's just suspicious. If he had a explanation or if there was any...
Type of detail that was put out, you know, they didn't put out her name and I'm assuming they didn't put a photo out of.
How would he know I was drinking with that person? Unless they said something like she was wearing this brown coat and she was at this bar, but it doesn't appear. It just sounds like we found a woman who'd been horribly attacked at this location, period. They didn't know she was at a bar. They didn't know anything more. So for this man to say, I was drinking with her at the East Room last night, how would he know? It doesn't make any sense.
Unless he had something to do with it. Yeah, and that's the idea here. In fact, this guy is still alive, although he moved out of the state after Carol Ryan's murder. And the Post Standard figured out where he was, reached out to him, and they just asked, hey, can we talk to you about the murder of Carol Ryan? And he got pretty testy. He said, no, I got no more to say about that, and then hung up.
The reporter called back and asked if he could speak briefly. And he said, no, them damn sheriffs up there ruined me up there years ago. I couldn't even live up there no more. So obviously this guy, you know, whether you believe he could be tied to this murder or not, he's saying that being a suspect or a person of interest in the case ruined his life. And that's why he moved out. Now he's still a person of interest according to the authorities, but
And he was offered a polygraph test. He took it. But of course, you know, polygraph tests, they're not reliable. And Syracuse.com did not give the results of that test. The police did say they spoke to him multiple times. And eventually he requested an attorney and got that shut down.
And if he didn't have anything to do with this, I understand why he would move. I understand why he would feel like he's being harassed because he's being accused essentially in the public eye of a horrendous crime, the most horrendous thing we can imagine here. And if he's innocent, if he didn't do this, then yeah. But
At the same time, if it's, hey, you made this comment that you were drinking with the woman that night, maybe put out a statement saying, yeah, they said she was wearing a brown coat and I remembered that. Something, anything to give an answer to why you would make that comment or I never made that comment and they're just making it up. Whatever the excuse or explanation is, but he just refuses to speak to anyone at this point.
Yeah, and the DA, Bill Fitzpatrick, has spoken about this as recently as 2023. He said, there is a specific identifiable suspect that we have in this case. It's not enough to arrest him, but I'm hopeful that DNA technology may get to the point in the very near future where we can examine some of the physical evidence at the scene and either exonerate him or conclusively tie him to the crime. He went on to say, I'm not revealing anything to him. I'm not tipping him off.
He knows he's a suspect. So I guess, you know, where this is at is Fitzpatrick goes on to talk about how witnesses are also passing away. I mean, time has gone on and he said, unless we find some legal way to get that person's affidavit in front of a grand jury, in front of a court,
that testimony is lost forever so as their witnesses pass away the case might be slipping away with it they're just they need that break with the dna hopefully yeah yeah you know this was what the 90s so anyone that's involved here is getting older people are forgetting details uh so the to me the only conclusion to this case is going to come from either someone just confessing or dna evidence
Me and you, we've visited DNA analysis labs. We know that the technology is getting better every day. And if they just even have a shred of DNA evidence that matches anyone that could have been a potential suspect or was in the area, had interacted with her that night, I think that might be a closure to this case.
Now, a detective, Alexander Hebert, took over the case in 2021. And in the next year, he resubmitted a pack of evidence and DNA samples to the Onondaga County Center for Forensic Sciences. This pack included fingernails and other evidence. And a few months later, the police learned no matches had been found, but the retesting was still going on. And when this detective was asked about the whole process, he said it's slow moving.
So if you have any information about this case, you think you can help, you know something, you can contact the Onondaga County Sheriff's Office at 315-435-3051. Obviously, you can also look them up online. You can also submit an anonymous tip to the Sheriff's Office by texting TIPONON and your tip to 847-411. Any other thoughts, Justin?
I think I kind of gave them. I think the only way this is getting solved is with DNA tying somebody to it. I think they have a half dozen...
people of interest. I won't call them suspects, but people that could have had some sort of tie into her had some action or behavior that made them look suspicious. But it's hard to say. I mean, we have the one guy who killed squirrels with an M-80. We have
other people who brag about killing women. And we have the one guy who said, I drank with the woman that night. How would he know? Unless there's a reasonable and logical explanation of why he would be able to identify somebody that hasn't been named or pictured in the news. Yeah. And you talked earlier about Andrews who was awaiting arraignment in the murders of two teens when he hanged himself.
Police had charged him with kidnapping, sexually assaulting, torturing, and murdering his next-door neighbor, a 16-year-old girl, and her best friend, who was also 16. They were Dryden High School cheerleaders. They feel like he could be a suspect because Carol Ryan, although she was older, does fit his profile of the victim that he was interested in. So there are so many ways to look at this. There are probably several suspects involved.
And it's difficult to say if any one of them was responsible for this. But, you know, it seems like the authorities, the law enforcement in this case, gave it their best shot. And they have enough now that they can keep retesting evidence as the technology gets better. And it sounds like they have not given up on it. So kudos to them because we'd love to see this case closed.
I
I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks, both recognizable and unrecognizable names, about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph.
My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up. They connected with the people that I'm talking to and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.