“The only thing that is artificial or fake about me is THIS” with Paulina Porizkova
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It is summer. And on NPR's Planet Money podcast, that means it is time to grab your notebooks and your headphones and tune into the economics crash course for your ears.

Planet Money Summer School is covering the economic history of the world. From the birth of money to the Industrial Revolution to modern trade policy, we've got the lessons to keep you sounding smart at the beach with help from real economic historians. Every Wednesday until Labor Day. Listen to Planet Money from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm also Lacey Lamar. Just kidding. I'm Amber Revin. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. This season, we make new friends, deep dive into my steamy DMs,

Answer your listener questions and more. The more is punch each other. Listen to the Amber and Lacey Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen, okay? Or Lacey gets it. Do it.

Welcome to the CINO Show. I'm your host, Cino McFarlane. I'm an addiction specialist. I'm a coach. I'm a translator. And I'm God's middleman. My job is to crack hearts and let the light in and help everyone shift the narrative. I want to help you wake up and I want to help you get free. Most importantly, I don't want you to feel alone. Listen to the CINO Show every Wednesday on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Today we are going back to New York season six. This is one of the seasons after my departure, before my return. Aviva Drescher returns to the group for the first time in weeks. Insults and body parts fly in an explosive season-ending confrontation. No stranger to New York City and drama, we're bringing in supermodel Paulina Porizkova to give her unfiltered take on this iconic episode.

This is The Real Housewives of New York, Season 6, Episode 20, The Last Leg.

I appreciate you doing this and doing the homework because that's a pain in the ass. So I appreciate you watching a show. You forget that I watched the show and I watched like I watched all the way up till maybe season 11 or 12. So it's not like I'm unfamiliar with what's what was going on there. I'm like, oh, yes, I remember the leg on the table. And yeah, I remember. Oh, OK. Oh, you remember. But to me, going back and watching these shows.

It's a little dated. People definitely look different. We all have aged and fashion has aged. And I do see it differently. And it's funny because I see people...

I find characters sympathetic that I didn't when I was there. Yes. Well, I'll tell you why. So this era of this show, it's when Aviva pulls her leg out. This particular era, this is when I left for the second time. I left...

And then you were back in season seven. Yeah, you're better than I am. Okay, so this is when I left for the first time and there were three seasons and this is when they brought in Kristen, Carol, and Heather. And not that I'm saying it's because of those three girls or the combination or me being gone or whatever, but the ratings had gone from like 3.1 million viewers down to 1.6 during this era. And it's funny because I, back...

Then when watching, I didn't think it was that good. Like I didn't think it was as good as it had been before, but watching it last night, I found it entirely entertaining and I didn't watch all the shows when I was gone, not because I was bitter or anything I left. It's because I never really watched when I was on. I only watched my episode to see if I got in trouble or not. And then that was it. So people, when I was on the show as a business person and wanting it to be successful, I

that I would not think were great housewives, I still think are great people. So like back when Alex, you know, back in my Alex genre on the Scary Island trip, I now watched that and found her very sympathetic and sensible and reasonable. But I didn't think she was a great housewife because she wasn't polarizing or didn't speak up enough. And I found that about Kristen in this episode.

And she was speaking up in this episode. I found her to be pretty and sweet and nice and relatable. But when I was there, I remember not thinking that she was the best housewife because you're trying to like move traffic and move story. And not everyone is a good housewife, but they might be a good person.

So I find that interesting.

You're like a little fire spark every time you're on screen. There's, I mean, you know, obviously because you've done very well for yourself since, um,

And it's your energy. It's your enthusiasm. It's your curiosity. And it's just, and you don't have to be mean to get tension started. You're just like this little ball of fire that keeps setting things aflame. Exactly. That's exactly what it's like. Little fires everywhere and moving traffic. And there's a lot going on. And producers on the show have said, I think like a producer. So I'm on the show dealing with what's happening. But in my mind, I'm,

I'm not... There's never been any acting or anything, but I'm aware that we're not there to just talk about our cuticles. Like, we're there to move story. And, um...

It wasn't very good for me because I'm good for it. And I found that in different career choices, producing events. I was amazing at, cause I never missed a goddamn detail and I was obsessive, but it wasn't that good for me. So I'm good for reality TV because I can light it up, move it around, close the tabs and do it, but it might not be good for me. But for someone like a Jacqueline, the Rita on Jersey or Kristen, it could be good for them because it could light them up a little. They may, you know,

feel like they feel or can be mundane, but there they light it up. So I think it's interesting. And you must have found in different parts of your career and different jobs that some things are good for you or take you out of your comfort zone. And some may, maybe the car is moving too fast.

Yeah, that's a very profound question that I wasn't ready for. Yeah, I'm sure you're right. But I think in my career, given that I have been doing it since I was 15, I always just kind of-- the whole thing becomes a muscle memory to me when it comes to modeling. And then when it comes to more public speaking or my books, my writing and stuff, that's outside my zone of comfort.

But I always found, I guess I kind of rely on just being honest and being me and hope it carries, you know, and it doesn't always. I mean, sometimes, you know, sometimes it might be a little abrasive and sometimes and sometimes it might even be dull.

But yes, but you being a model, I'm picturing you the way you're describing it. You can walk in there. You know exactly what to do, how to do it, give them what they want, the eyes, the look, the walk, the thing, right? Whatever it is. So it's like you on the reality show. Exactly. But it's not always good.

That's exactly me. But with you, I'm sure that while you're great at it, modeling may sometimes feel toxic or not good for you, or you don't feel good about yourself all the time in that environment. Oh, no, you're absolutely right about that. In fact, I never feel worse about myself than after I've spent a day modeling. I never feel so old. I never feel so ugly. I never feel so inadequate as after a day of modeling. And that's even if it's

going really well and the pictures look good. Interesting. So that's the point. That's exactly the point. So I can walk in right now and I do sometimes miss it because I'm sure you miss looking amazing. The clothes are there, the attention that you walk in like or whatever, whatever it is, the picture looks great. You're talking to people, whatever the thing is. I, you know, would like to walk right now. Not now, but tonight.

get dressed up for no reason because I never get dressed up but like put on makeup get dressed up to go to some event walk in set the place on fire make people laugh then do an interview about it and walk out like I'm great at that but you're right all the things it comes with and the press and the scrutiny and the things that come with make you feel gross sometimes so that's very what who would have

thought when Elizabeth Moss was on here we found parallels between reality TV and acting and right now I'm finding a parallel between me and reality TV and you and modeling so that kind of stuff makes me happy well done you just connected the dots interesting I love it

Seriously, I swear.

And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so will my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that, Michael. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one.

Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Oh, just stop now. If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye-bye-bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

It is summer, and on NPR's Planet Money podcast, that means it is time to grab your notebooks and your headphones and tune into the economics crash course for your ears.

Planet Money Summer School is covering the economic history of the world. From the birth of money to the Industrial Revolution to modern trade policy, we've got the lessons to keep you sounding smart at the beach with help from real economic historians. Every Wednesday until Labor Day. Listen to Planet Money from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hello, everyone. I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm Amber Ruffin, a better Lacey Lamar. Boo. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. You thought you had fun last season? Well, you were right. And you should tune in today for new fun segments like Sister Court and listening to Lacey's steamy DMs. We've got new and exciting guests like Michael Beach. That's my husband. Daphne Springs.

Daniel Thrasher, Peppermint, Morgan J., and more. You gotta watch us. No, you mean you have to listen to us. I mean, you can still watch us, but you gotta listen. Like, if you're watching us, you have to tell us. Like, if you're out the window, you have to say, hey, I'm watching you outside of the window. Just, you know what? Listen to the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the CINO Show. I'm your host, CINO McFarlane. I'm an addiction specialist. I'm a coach. I'm a translator. And I'm God's middleman. My job is to crack hearts and let the light in and help everyone shift the narrative. Whether your get down is sex, drugs, alcohol, love addiction, self-hate, codependency, or anything else for that matter.

I want to help you wake up and I want to help you get free. I want to help you unleash your potential, overcome obstacles, and achieve your goals. Most importantly, I don't want you to feel alone. So join me on The Cino Show, where each week we'll feature a compelling individual with an even more noteworthy story that will be sure to inspire and educate. Listen to The Cino Show every Wednesday on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, so let's get into this episode. So we start off and I have this. This is my little stupid notepad from when I was watching last night because my daughter was next to me. It was dark and I was scribbling. And then I have like a formal paper that they did for me. But I'm sure I can remember most things that happened. Remind me if I don't. So we start off and we have Kristen and Josh. I know Josh from off the show. And I met Kristen on the show.

And my friend who was best friends with Josh and you told me that when Christine was on the show, she was getting hair and makeup every day and really, really lit about the outfits. And like that became the era when people started caring about what they looked like more. If you look before this era, it was really us just sitting in sweaters like I am right now or you like you are right now. Just being...

being on a reality show because it was reality. Right. And did you do your own makeup? And you did your own makeup. Yeah. I mean, they weren't paying for you to do your makeup, maybe for interviews. I don't know when that started, but in the beginning, they weren't even paying for interviews. And you would choose yourself if you would get your makeup done for a big event. But, you know, this is the era when...

Really, it was Kristen, Heather, Carol. They would be doing wardrobe changes and they would be getting their makeup done in the Berkshires. And it seemed...

annoying because having been there in the beginning, it felt like now we're putting on a show and I was just not in HD yet. It was like, I was still dial up internet because on Beverly Hills, they were wearing logos head to toe and having glam squads come with them everywhere. So this was, this was the era when the show, the shows turned into like, we're going to spend as much, if not more time thinking about what we look like than the content

Of what we're doing. So I found that to be very interesting. And Kristen is one of those people that really always looked perfect. Yeah. And you know what? I mean, I understand that on her part, because when you are a model and when you are perceived as somebody that's supposed to be attractive, it's such a.

you know, it's like the expectations of you are such that it's really hard to just not be pretty because it's like, you know, it's like, it's like you were expect to set the room on fire. Right. She's pretty. Interesting. Good for you for telling me and fashionable. You're right. Cause and fashionable. You're right. That's you're right. I didn't, someone had just told me that. It's like a part of her persona. This is what she's bringing to the table. Like you bringing your,

fire sparky personality and Heather is bringing her you know her her personality and her groundedness and Carol is bringing you know her literary sense and like you know the cool smart New Yorker style style and Kristen has to bring the pretty style

That's so funny. You're right. So I never cared about if I was made up because I thought it doesn't matter. Like if I look pretty in one scene, they're going to know that's how I look pretty. If I look like shit in the other, but you're right. Carol had to bring always the funky, the cool, the style to her credit. Heather had to be like, I'm cool and hip. Cause I worked with Diddy and I designed clothes and I'm, you know, and Kristen was bringing the pretty and the fashion. You're right. I wish someone told me that then. So you should have been on the show with us. I felt,

So Josh had that business eBoost. I don't know if that still exists today. But this was also the era, and it was kind of after my Skinny Girl era, when people started really not so casually and naturally pushing products into the show. And I take responsibility. I'm literally the one that started it. But it was going on in my life, and I found a way to make it truthful and just weave it in versus like...

e-boost and a hat behind me and above the refrigerator. And now, you know, with Kyle and the agency and it's on every piece of clothing, I wonder, I know that the audience doesn't really love that, but this is also where that started. This is the era where people were jamming products in as a result of my skinny girl deal. So I found that interesting. And I don't know if,

he was the best actor in doing that. Like it's forced. What do you think? Okay. So like, well, what just stopped me about this episode was, uh, yes, I, I agree. I think it felt, uh, forced, but also, you know, I just couldn't get that, you know, well, you know, we're looking for a 25 year old with energy, you know, she has to have energy and there is his beautiful model wife going, well, I have energy and I'm a model. Um,

what about me? And it seemed a little bit set up. It didn't seem 100%. And I think we can feel that as viewers and it's not, it's not as attractive, but it was interesting that the way that's the way they decided to pull it in. You know, it's not that, oh, I'm looking for, you know, a woman like that. He had to be with a younger versus older, you know, you know, that's like my thing. So I was like,

I love that. By the whole thing. Well, it's funny that you say that because you're right. They picked a good topic to do a scripted, semi-scripted scene. But what is not ever forgotten and can't be ignored is how smart this audience is. Every audience is just so savvy and smart now. We smell the bullshit. And that might be why the ratings had gone down. That was an obviously produced scene. And the problem with many cast members is

let the producers drive what goes on. And I remember one time I had a producer want me to put a big dress on my bed and do like the Carrie Bradshaw moment. And I always bring it up. And this producer is probably so frustrated because they've heard it so many times because it was them. But I always bring it up because they said it to me. And that type of stuff would make me angry. I'm not even kidding. Like I would be

When they'd say that, how about we just do real? Like I always did real. And I think if you go back one time, I didn't do real, which was peeing on the stick in the bathroom. That's the only time in all reality history I fought back. They needed to get the moment that said I was pregnant. I didn't like it. I redid that. I had done it in my real life. I have always done real.

So you can see with the e-boost thing that the whole thing from, oh, well, Kristen, that would be a lovely idea, but we don't normally work together, her. And then he's like asking about wardrobe on a fashion shoot. It was not well executed. Well, Josh is also not, his name was Josh, right? Yes. He was also not a terrific actor. Exactly. Exactly.

So he wasn't carrying it off, really. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, you could kind of smell the bullshit on that one. But I still found it fascinating that that's what they decided to bicker about. Like that was the thing that that was going to be.

you know, it's kind of a small inkling of, of things to come. I feel, you know, as far as like the whole ageism thing. Well, I think, you know, that's producers needing to find story shooting for four months.

And they have to find story, which is why years later, we never, I never even knew this term, but years later, people would say she doesn't have a storyline. They're looking for a storyline, which is why there are so many fake businesses on the housewives. It's a need for a storyline. We have not this, that business was a real business, but people will start new businesses to be able to say at the beginning of the season to the producers when they sit down,

When the producers say, what do you have going on? Well, I thought about doing a this or that because you need to fill a lot of content. And if you don't have your kids on the show, like a Sonia, you don't have you're not in a relationship. What are you filling it with? Like, you can't just, you know, do charity events every day and you can't sit at restaurants every day. It's boring. So it's that a lot of that stuff is forced story like.

Her trying to make an analogy between her sexuality and the photo shoot. And like now Josh is going to see her differently because of the way, I mean, it's just a reach. So that those are like. And it felt like a reach. Yeah. You are absolutely right. Like we, the audience are smarter. We can see the inauthenticity. We can smell the bullshit and it does. But sometimes it's,

Sometimes it actually kind of works for the show because you know it's bullshit and then you're trying to figure out who it was set up by.

Well, as a viewer, you mean? Yes. Right. Well, that was definitely a combination of the producers and what the talent had going on and wanting to push the product. And you make deals. You'll be like, okay, I'll talk about my sexuality with you guys because they'll be like, why don't we talk about your problems in your marriage? Nobody wants to do that. And you'll be like,

All right, well, then we're going to have to put my e-boost in. Like there are these little micro deals that happen that are weird, not formal. They're just like discussions like to get you to go somewhere. Okay, well, then we're going to go to my friend's restaurant or things like that, you know. But what I would have done is if I were a cast member and I were somehow around that, I would have said,

That felt a little set up, but make it like the people had set up. You're not going to break the fourth wall and bring in the producers. But also in modern day, they do break the fourth wall and bring in producers. So there's a lot more license now that you need to take because everything's been done. So I did think it was courageous and when the show can be

when you can have a moment of talking about Heather's son and going through that type of issue. And Carol saying you go to many doctors and you end up going with who you trust. I thought that that was like a valuable, worthwhile, small story on the show. Yeah, that was also kind of a kernel of real vulnerability. And I think, you know, obviously like I, I attachment myself to those moments. I mean, for me, the housewives, um,

And I really just kind of watched the New York housewives because it's the one that I relate to. But to me, it really is kind of a show about female emotionality, female friendships, because this is what we do. This is who we are. Like we are women. We care deeply about our friends, our friendships. And it's sort of seeing it in this like little accelerated microcosm of, you know, tensions and, you know,

all this superimposed stuff, but it makes you understand how we react. It's like, I feel like I benefited so much from watching the housewives in like knowing what, how to act as a friend and what was cool and what was less cool. Cause I could see the less camera. Yeah.

No, that's true. And as a person on it, you definitely have learned a lot about yourself and what you're perceived as and things that you've done. Like someone like Ramona has probably learned a lot about what to and not to do. And yes, I have said that the show can be toxic and sometimes it doesn't always represent highlighting the best things.

of women and it kind of thrives on women fighting. But to your point, even if you're not friends with these women, and a lot of these women aren't really friends, they're only friends while they're there. That does occur in work. You are more friendly with certain models, I'm sure when you were in that world, because you're doing the same thing, you're having the same conversations, you're having the same problems, and you're gossiping about the same stuff. So like, and also you have new friends you've made being a mom that then you're not friends with later. Like,

Women have moments for you in time, you know, drop off, drop off and pick up sports moms and then you don't speak to them or your husband's friends. So I guess now in retrospect, what's funny is people thought I was going to come on here and just trash the housewives. I actually, in retrospect, watching it have found more positives than I have negatives.

you know, in people because I wasn't so in the soup. Right. And I have to say, I mean, I know, and I know like, you know, it's kind of seen as a, you know, I mean, yeah, it seems as trashy, but I have benefited immensely from watching the housewives. And Cohen is going to send you an edible arrangement immediately. I'm going to pull that, pull that quote guys.

Pull that quote and we're sending it to Andy on a plaque. Well, you know, and it's kind of like in writing, right? So I think of myself primarily as a writer now. And some of the biggest and best lessons I've learned in writing was to read other people's poor writing. Because when you read great writing, great books, which I do all the time, it's just sort of,

you know, par for the course. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is another great book. This is another great book. And you can get inspired or you can get a little deflated because you think I'll never be this great. But when you read a bad writer and you can spot why it's bad, why this word shouldn't be used here, why like the phrase doesn't work this way. This is where you go, oh, wow.

I have to remember this. And it's actually incredibly beneficial for my own writing. And so watching the housewives was seeing people that weren't behaving well. And when they weren't behaving well, that's where I learned my biggest lessons because it's sometimes I could see myself in it. I go, Oh, I've done that. I've played the victim or I wanted attention. Oh, okay. So it's a self reflection. That's amazing. Well, this is going to be interesting for you. So,

The Aviva story. I cast Aviva. I put her, I'm the one who, I, yes. You did? It was you? Yes. I'm sorry. I apologize. And I didn't know her. I did not know her. No, no, because she was kind of amazing in that way that I feel like I learned so much from her. I mean, I think she, right. I never, didn't really watch that much, but in meeting her personally and then her being cast professionally, I'm going to tell you exactly what happened. So

I don't, whenever someone asks me to do something, I go over the top and I don't need to go that far in the project. So if you're like, oh, I need a good restaurant in Vail, I'll like get so down that rabbit hole. I'll be sending you like Korean barbecue and Ethiopian, like, okay, stop. Like it's too, I just, you just need a couple of restaurants, but I don't like to do anything halfway. So when they used to ask us about casting,

Whether I was on or off the show, I would go down a rabbit hole and think about who would be good. And it got me into all kinds of problems. And I'll explain others later. But I've cast Aviva and Leah and partially Lisa Rinna because Andy Cohen was not for Lisa Rinna at all. And I was the one who kept telling him that he would actually like her and that she would be excellent. So I do take...

partial to full credit for Lisa Rinna and in telling Lisa Rinna to actually do the show because she called me to ask me to do that and whether she should do The Apprentice. So I'm taking some credit for that. And I'll also take credit for the failures, which is Aviva. And I cast Leah. So Aviva, I knew a friend who knew her and they were going down the path of casting people. And Andy Cohen had

hadn't seen her. So she hadn't made it to the top. They were going to cast without Aviva. And I said, what the hell? Why didn't you cast Aviva? He said, who? I said, she was married to Harry Dubin, who has had sex with more than three housewives. They put her at the top of the pile and then they cast her. And

But between that process of the video going in and it actually happening, I saw Viva and the Hamptons at a bagel store. And she's the one who said, oh, hi, thank you so much for throwing my name in. Big mistake. Because then like now you get someone gets you in a verbal headlock.

So I remember I was standing in front of this bagel store in the Hamptons and I was like on the lawn and she just was like, well, I want to do it because of this and I don't because of that and I think I'd be great because of this and I want you to say this. And like, people think I care. Like recently, Jenna Lyons wanted to talk to me about this. What do I suggest for her? Kathy Hilton wanted to talk to me about it before she went on. This other model or somebody who's doing the new one. Well, I don't want to, I don't really want to talk about, like, I don't really have anything to say. There's not, I don't want to be the sort of

poster child for this and not in a rude way not that I don't want to like pay it forward and help people I don't have anything I'm not going to say that many positive things like I didn't say that many positive things to Kyle before she went on because I was leaving

So I definitely don't have that many positive things to say because I'm leaving. So I cast you because I know you wanted that and I helped you in that way. But like, I don't want it's like setting someone up with someone on a date, two people. You don't know them. I just set up two people. I don't know either of them. I just wanted to do a mikvah and set them up. I don't want to be in a play by play about it now. I don't want to hear about every date, what you hate, what you like, how much money they have. Don't I don't want I just wanted to do it. So that's what the casting is like. I don't want to be part of the date after I've set you guys up.

So Aviva got me in this like crazy headlock and then she ended up making it and I'm responsible and people can be mad at me too for that task. But anyway, that is how Aviva made it on to the show. I am in part grateful because I can't say that I had much fondness for Aviva, but she brought joy.

It's kind of like she, you know, she brought something. Train wreck television. Well, yeah. And it was, it was sharp and it was unpleasant. And, and like, because, because of how, because of who she was and how not very nice she could be, you know, everybody else kind of got on guard and it created a lot of tension and, and,

I just never forget. It was the season before this one with Aviva. When I think they went to St. Bart's.

Oh, yeah. Calling the girls trailer trash or something? Yeah, but it was all about her health and her phobias, and she needed her husband with her even though it was a girls' trip, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And how come you don't have compassion for me? I'm suffering here. How come you don't have compassion? And that kind of floored me because I thought, oh, like –

This is when bad things happen in your life. If you expect if you're kind of entitled and you expect for everybody to give you a free pass, you become a Viva. OK, well, here. Yes. So it does. So it does teach you about yourself to your point. But I'm going to explain something to you on reality television and maybe in real life, but on reality television.

love to hate is great Joan Collins is great love to hate Ramona because she screws up all the time but like you find her fun and crazy and they're watching hate to hate doesn't work Aviva is you feel but you hate to hate her you hate it and the end Danielle was the same you just don't like the way you feel you don't feel good about hating it you just you hate to hate it that's when you know love to love is good love

Love to hate is good. Hate to hate is not good. And Aviva is a rare breed. I mean, she really lost me. I have to say, this is when I started disliking her was the book gate thing. Oh, right. Carol. Um,

Because I'm a writer. So like, I knew exactly what Carol was saying. And what Aviva was saying was insane. And I posted about it on Twitter. No. I said something like about, you know, being in Carol's camp and like, yeah, it doesn't take a village to write a book. I'm sorry. That's, you know, it's a one person kind of a deal. And I've never gotten so much hate mail in my life. Oh.

Oh, really? Yeah. People defending Aviva. I got so much hate mail. I was literally like stunned. And I don't think I've ever gotten as much hate mail since. Well, I'm going to say this. I have reviewed things that Carol has written and given my grammar and also flow notes, like replied and then underneath wrote, written, I think this should go this way and I think that's that way. And to me,

I made this mistake with the tipsy girl thing where I took the bait and I went in and got annoyed about it versus just ignoring it. Carol took the bait and really kind of battled it because there was something there that was really bothering her. Like it was bothering her a little too much. It doesn't really matter. I have worked with different... I have written my books, when I tell you, written all of the words...

I have had a writer help me organize structure, the box, the bullet points, where it's going. It's like I could go in my garage and organize everything and put it in this space.

the piles. And in this case, I do all that myself because I'm a psycho organizer. But what if I needed somebody to help me with the containers and where it's going and how the layout is and what a table. So for me personally, I've done that. I have no shame in that. I don't care. It doesn't mean it wasn't my book. These things didn't fly from the sky. Be very hard for someone to fully write a book for you, your perspective, your voice, your feeling, et cetera. And her book did well. So

So I think that doesn't really matter what Aviva was saying. She probably did have some help. It seemed like she had too much information for her not to have had some help. But...

I think she took the bait too much. I think it was a battle, that thing that was so sensitive that now you've brought so much attention to it that Paulina, who has nothing to do with the show, tweeted about it. That's the point. If it was really nothing and it was like, okay, I had someone else write my book. None of this happened to me. I don't know how to write. I never learned how to read either. Bye. Then it would have been over.

So just a note for people in life and in TV, if you take the bait, it's like bad press. It's like adding gasoline to the fire. The fire keeps getting bigger.

Yeah, but you know, yeah, I get what you're saying, but I've been on reality TV too. Last year when I was out in the jungle starving and becoming incapable of walking. And I understand, I know also storytelling. I get it. I get what you need to do in order to draw attention or what people do to draw attention and so on. But I think there are certain...

that, no, but you know what? You're right. Damn, I'm trying to like, I'm trying to protect something that I'm wrong about. Nevermind. You're right, Bethany. Someone says to you, you've had plastic surgery and they go for it and you feel like, holy shit, my whole life is about not plastic surgery. And I'm saying I'm never gonna do it again.

going to get it. And the only ages we see stop at J-Lo and then go to Betty White. You've said it. I'm quoting you to you. Absolutely. So if someone said you have a plastic surgery and you say, LOL, okay. We don't care. If you go back and battle them, we're now invested and we go back and forth and it's like bringing a big thing on it. So that's all I'm saying. You're right. You're right. Because if it's just a one small kind of attack, like, well, you and your plastic surgery, I'd be like,

Like, yeah, okay, look at this face. If I got plastic surgery, wouldn't it look a little better? But...

But yeah, no, it did turn into a big deal. Huh? Interesting. Interesting. I'm starting to get a little different perspective on this. Thank you, Bethany. I love it. I've gotten a different perspective on a couple of things too. This is an excellent, excellent. That's why I like the show. We're talking about life through the show. We're not talking about gossip and, you know, talking about life through the show. Who did what? No, this is like women and

our emotions and how we handle our friendships and where we fall short and where we do well and yeah i mean sure this is real as in not exactly real right um set up realness but it still manages to hit like

the high and the low points of, you know, emotionality. Yes. And if someone says that you're cheating on your husband and your cul-de-sac and you're not on television, you're just a regular person, you know, and it's not real. Don't take the bait and add fire. That's kind of what I'm saying.

Hey there, I'm Holland Roden and I am the host of a new podcast called Howler Back Now. The moon is full and beacon hells and the wolves are coming out again. You know me as Lydia Martin from Teen Wolf and on this podcast we will re-watch every episode from the beginning.

So join me and my favorite Teen Wolf stars and friends as we reunite the cast, the crew, and the heroes and the villains. We'll be sharing every gory detail with you because as if 100 episodes wasn't enough,

I am bringing you all the behind the scenes. There's going to be so much more from each episode. Nothing is off limits. And, oh, that's right. We'll be talking about Teen Wolf, the movie. I cannot wait. The wolves are howling once again. What can I say? So, holler back now and join us each week. Listen to Howler Back Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

It is summer, and on NPR's Planet Money podcast, that means it is time to grab your notebooks and your headphones and tune into the economics crash course for your ears.

Planet Money Summer School is covering the economic history of the world. From the birth of money to the Industrial Revolution to modern trade policy, we've got the lessons to keep you sounding smart at the beach with help from real economic historians. Every Wednesday until Labor Day. Listen to Planet Money from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the CINO Show. I'm your host, CINO McFarlane. I'm an addiction specialist. I'm a coach. I'm a translator. And I'm God's middleman. My job is to crack hearts and let the light in and help everyone shift the narrative. Whether your get down is sex, drugs, alcohol, love addiction, self-hate, codependency, or anything else for that matter.

I want to help you wake up and I want to help you get free. I want to help you unleash your potential, overcome obstacles, and achieve your goals. Most importantly, I don't want you to feel alone. So join me on The Cino Show, where each week we'll feature a compelling individual with an even more noteworthy story that will be sure to inspire and educate. Listen to The Cino Show every Wednesday on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hello, everyone. I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm Amber Ruffin, a better Lacey Lamar. Boo. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. You thought you had fun last season? Well, you were right. And you should tune in today for new fun segments like Sister Court and listening to Lacey's steamy DMs. We've got new and exciting guests like Michael Beach. That's my husband. Daphne Springs.

Daniel Thrasher, Peppermint, Morgan J., and more. You gotta watch us. No, you mean you have to listen to us. I mean, you can still watch us, but you gotta listen. Like, if you're watching us, you have to tell us. Like, if you're out the window, you have to say, hey, I'm watching you outside of the window. Just, you know what? Listen to the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

As a person who has watched the show, you and me who just knows the people, this was also iconic, quintessential Ramona.

era, Ramona, when Sonia and Ramona were like really close friends and really close to each other. And you could tell that Ramona really was annoyed that Harry had left with Luann and like it wasn't dirty and toxic. They just seem like good, crazy girlfriends. And I like that, that, you know, that's probably how people perceived myself and Jill years before. I like I like Ramona when it's good.

i i did too because they're both kind of kooky um and um and and sometimes one more than the other but there's something disarming about them maybe it's their um uh they they sort of they're vulnerable they don't mean to be vulnerable they they don't mean to tell you things

That they want to keep secret and somehow they completely give it all away. Yeah, it's a little... It's a little Lucy and Ethel and Wilma and Betty. Like, it is a good... It's a decent duo back then. Now it might not...

you know, being a little older, it might not play as well, but it really, it might, it might be like Golden Girls. It played well. I liked it and it was fun. I just wanted to make that overall note and comment and tell you that I know Harry from back in the day. We used to go get drinks with this guy, Braden Kyle, who passed away. He drank an extraordinary amount. He worked for Page Six and I knew Harry through him and we used to have infinite drinks back when I could drink at the Four Seasons and Harry was always like,

you know, it was that Upper East Side Regency bar type thing, that Tom type thing where like you, you, you're like a big fish in a small pond. You're like, you know, it's a fairly, and I don't mean to say this in a negative way because I don't like to talk about people's looks, but like,

a fine looking human being. They're not a model. You're not, you know, just an average, decent, fine looking human being who has a little bit of money running around on the Upper East Side, meeting young girls, trying to impress them with cocktails and like, you know, having a tab at the Four Seasons. That's, that's the role that he played, which fits him perfectly into this cast because that's the same role that Tom played. And also there's something to be said about a man who is willing to sign the release each time and,

be on camera with these women. You've got to like the light. It must help a little bit with meeting those women at the Four Seasons and the Regency bars. It's like kind of, you get to be a big timer in this small little quadrant of like 20 blocks on the Upper East Side. So that's Harry, who was married to Aviva and dated or slept with Luann as Sonia and Ramona.

And Ramona will say not her. And I highly doubt that. But he's hooked up with several housewives. That is an absolute fact in some form or fashion. So whether I don't know if there was penetration, but it's not my business. They all hooked up. So Harry's made the rounds on this cast. And it's deaf as a person who seems like they like to be on camera.

The giving of the ring seemed forced to. I don't know where that ring came from or whose ring that was, but it was like it was not they weren't currently dating. It was like those friends you have that you say if we're a certain age, we'll get married. Like it just seemed weird and it did not seem truthful at all. And we'll never know because neither of them would tell the truth about it. But it was definitely not true.

Yeah, and it was also kind of boring, honestly, because I think because it didn't feel very authentic, I was kind of like, I was not invested in that part of the story at all. Because you didn't believe it and there were no stakes. No, no. I was like, yeah, and whatever. It's a sort of pre-ring to a pre-ring. Like, it seems like with that and E-Boost, they were hunting for story. And to Luann's point...

If you know, Luann is Luann and Ramona said it best about Luann. Luann's the one in the group, but if she wanted to go home and hook up with Harry, I highly doubt that Luann at that time thought this was real anyway. So now it's a fake story that everyone's got to play along with. Not unlike fake businesses that everybody has to act like they support. And if they don't act like they support, then they're bad friends and they seem to be trolled by the audience for not being supportive. But the people on the cast are like, but it's not even a real business anyway. So,

You know, when you're on the cast, like that's not real. That's not going to happen. Tipsy girl's not really going to happen. This clothing line isn't going to happen. The soccer team isn't going to happen. The fragrance isn't going to happen. And now we look non-supportive for thinking that's crazy. So now Luann looks like she's just jumping in the car to sleep with Sonia's fake fiance and it's bullshit. Yeah. So it's weird. It's a, it's a, the domino effect of something not being true is what went on there. Fake story that comes from fake story.

Absolutely. And therefore, that was not at all what piqued my interest in that episode at all. No. Yeah, whatever. Filler. Filler. That's just me. I was just, I was kind of enthralled with, God, menopausal brain. Harry and, what's her name? Luann, Sonia.

Sonia, Harry and Sonia sitting at the table and she's kind of telling him off like, so, you know, I'm not going to be accepting this commitment ring from you thing. Creepy. And and he's kind of sitting there sweating and red faced. And I just thought I was like.

I am really surprised that he agreed to this moment. No, but you don't know what he agreed to. She might have just said, the producers might have said, because I have his number already, do you want to just have a lunch with Sonia? Which he could be sweating. I had a guy that I was in a scene with where I was saying,

because the producers had wanted me to push the storyline forward. You know, do you think we'll be moving in together? And he really wanted to move in together, but he was like, we'll talk about it later because he didn't want to be on camera. The viewer thinks that he's telling me he doesn't want to live with me and then ended up relating to me thinking I was their Carrie Bradshaw, which was good for me. And in my real moment on that show, I was thinking I'm embarrassed. I'm the loser that the guy that it seems to the audience that's going to watch this, like he doesn't want to live with me. So,

I learned 10 things during that scene alone that they were, that they could sympathize with you being the loser, but I wasn't really the loser because he did want to live with me, but he didn't want to do it on camera. So Harry probably went to a lunch and he might not be sweating because of what she said. He might be sweating because of what she just said on camera that he has to sort of pretend is real and it's going to be baked in an oven and come out and now we're going to be talking about it.

Oh, that's true. I keep like, and as much as I know about being on reality shows, I forget that this is the way that it sometimes gets manipulated. That's right. Regardless, in that particular scene, I felt a little contemptuous of Harry. I thought, really? Seriously? Like, who even cares? And why is he getting so much airtime?

Yeah. Yeah. That's the, that was the, that's the Tom and Harry. I said, we need a Dick. We need a Tom, Dick and Harry. And then we'll be complete. They need to get a Dick on. Well, they have a lot of Dick on that. There's a lot of Dick that's gotten. We need one Dick. What's Aviva's father. I think that was the Dick. Oh, that's. Was it really? Oh, wow. We need it. Yeah. We need, we have a Tom. We have a Dick. George.

I don't remember, but you really are. You know more than I do, which is frightening. Well, that's because you were on the show, my dear, and I watched it. Yeah, you're right. In other related awkward forced fake, and by the way, you know what? It's good that we watch shows that are like,

In other words, this wasn't the best Housewives era or episode in history, but there's as much to learn from the fakeness because the viewers, the listeners here want to hear the behind the scenes too. They don't want us to replay a show that they saw. Like they want to hear what I think, you know, the stuff that they wouldn't have known. So I find that in another unrelated fake storyline scene, we have LeCirque.

And I didn't realize that was the finale. So now that I'm, hold on. So now that I'm realizing this was a finale episode, this is not a good episode. Cause I was thinking this was just a regular episode. Now that I think about the fact that this was the finale, that's not a great episode. Cause it wasn't even a great final party, like a final party. It was a terrible final party. Yeah. It was lame and it was weird and it was creepy and it was forced. And that's when producers need to find a thread to have a party. And so,

some, everybody always wants to own the party, but if it's not an interesting enough concept, you know, or you've given up something else that season. So the producers will give you the final party. When you get smart, you realize you don't want, you don't want to own anything because you don't want people in your house. You don't want to have to hold the bag. You'd rather just like, but in the beginning, everybody wants all the attention of my friend's restaurant, my final party, who gives a shit? None of it's real. Okay. So this is a bullshit party.

And it was really awkward. It was so awkward with all of those, with Sonia's team all standing about and looking completely lost. And like you had literally gotten them out of like very separate boxes. Oh my God. Right. Like she went through a Rolodex and said anybody who's provided a service-

It was like Angie's list. She just was like, let me look up a chiropractor, an acupuncturist, a colonic performer. Yes. Reiki, bring it in. Yeah, exactly. Rolfing Reiki.

acupuncture, electro so fucking weird that it was crazy. You're right. That's so at least we have that like at least assortment of people and I kind of wish that they would have that we would have almost seen a little bit more of this these awkward interactions because they just stood there looking like

Um, you know, like, uh, they had no idea why they were there and what they were supposed to do. Right. But in fairness to Sonia and at some of the finales, I have seen some of her interesting crowds show up and she is that type that is always, she is always staying at a different wellness hotel and posting about them. She's always doing a different type of light therapy, colonic vegan diet cleanse. She is that person.

So in fairness, she has interacted with a lot of these people. They don't interact with each other and that may not be the grounds for a successful party. But to always be fair, these are people that like Sonia definitely interfaces with because she tries everything and wants to do every new thing and reads up on all that stuff.

So yes, it was Sonia's team and, uh, and Sonia's speech, which was hilarious. Oh my God. I love it when she reads her speeches. Exactly. I mean, really hilarious. Um,

So now we, and she's talking on this episode, I have my perfume products and I have my soccer team and I have, and it's like all over the place. And that's God loves Sonia and she's fun and wacky and survives. And she's always trying something new. And I have a soft spot for Sonia. And the intern is just amazing.

It really is. It's like you look at her and you go, yeah, you're not a Broadway star, actress, model, mogul, blah, blah, that I can see. But the fact that you believe that you could be one at any point. Absolutely. I agree. And even for the show or not for the show, it lands with her because she's

she'll be on that show forever. Like there's certain people, I think Kyle will be on that show for to the end of time. And I, Kyle will be on the show to the end of time. And I could see Sonia and Luann being on the show to the end of the time. I think Teresa will be on to the end of time. Vicky would have been on to the end of time. She wasn't taken out. They're just people that, you know, we'll be on to the end of time. And I don't even mean only cause they'll stay on, but that they won't get fired because just another little tip.

99.9% of housewives that have said that they've left have actually been fired. The only people that have not been fired and left are myself, Denise Richards-

Caroline Manzo and maybe like one of those Lorries or somebody from the very beginning on OC, but really everybody else has been allowed to say that they are choosing to leave, but they've been let go. That's just another little tip. Oh, that's like the business. I didn't think it was a secret, but maybe listeners out there don't know that when somebody is taking, is no longer renewing their contract because they're going to spend time with their family. Oh, right. She just got fired.

Right. And that's another note too. Cause I think Ramona recently was like, the show is not really good for me right now. And I don't want to be, that stuff doesn't need to be said. Nobody cares. Nobody believes it. Just let's leave that out. We don't care. Everyone's gotten fired. I was like, I'm just like, well, I got fired. And then, and then you get the repercussions of that because then that sticks with you. Like, Oh, she's the one who got fired because they,

Then you become the only one who ever got fired. But Dorinda turned it into a pause, which is still being fired because you were it was not your choice and you were let go. And everybody's technically on a pause if they might come back. Jill came back for so she didn't. Jill didn't. If if Dorinda's definition of a pause is that they will likely but haven't said that they're definitely having her back.

then Jill Zarin, anybody who's left, Vicky, Tamara, like everybody's on a pause, which is a nice, it's frosting, it's frosting covered shit. It's, everyone that was asked to leave that wanted to stay was fired. So yeah. Okay. So now let's get to this shit show. So,

everybody sitting at the table was just awkward. No one at a party sits like eight people at a table to look at one person and talk about what they've done. That's like the producers pushing everybody over to talk about one thing to one person. It's weird. One person saying something. Most people don't say exactly what's on their mind in the moment. If you don't like someone at a party, you're not like, hey, everybody, I know. Let's all go over there and tell Jane all the things we don't believe or like about her. It's creepy and weird.

It was creepy and weird. And then the rest of the party, like all the Sonia team are like standing around, like huddled around a couple of little cocktail tables with no place to sit. It was awkward. No. Well, here's what a housewives party is bright lights. Like you're at Shea stadium, no music because the music hasn't been cleared. And if it is music, it would be weird elevator music, but then the sound person can't hear the people talking. So,

So think of this party. It's bright lights like Shea Stadium. It's no music. And it's

four cameras at a finale standing around a group of people so the rest of the people don't know what to do. If there's like a big volcano erupting over to the left, you're standing there like, we're not going to go into the burning volcano because that would be weird, but we're going to stand there and sort of watch and not know what we should be doing at the party. It's hard to just have a chatter about a blue cheese stuffed olive when there's a volcano erupting over there. So it's...

Also creepy and weird to begin with. But so that's how it really... Yeah, and then also what doesn't happen most times is somebody coming with like

x-rays in an envelope that that's that this is the era where that shit began at reunions people bringing out notes and texts like we didn't have notes and envelopes you just lived your life and you tried to remember and you know you know oh well this is the date that you text me and i have the paper and the transcript it's ridiculous i didn't see i you know i didn't even put that together because i didn't watch that much longer i watched when you came back and then i kind of stopped watching when you left

So I didn't even really realize that that is what is going on now. Well, it's receipts. Bringing receipts. How are receipts entertaining? Thank you.

Hi, I'm Christine Taylor. And I'm David Lasher. David and I starred in a little show in the 90s called Hey Dude. And now we're teaming up once again as the hosts of a new iHeart podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s called. Do you remember the Motorola flip phone? Do you remember going to Blockbuster? Do you remember Nintendo 64? Do you remember getting frosted tips? Was that a cereal? No, it was hair. Do you remember AOL Instant Messenger and the dial-up sound like Poltergeist?

Do you remember when we dated? Okay, save that for the podcast. We're going to use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. Each episode will rival the feeling of taking out the cartridge from your Game Boy, blowing on it, and popping it back in as we take you back to the 90s.

So listen to Hey Dude, The 90s Called on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It is summer, and on NPR's Planet Money podcast, that means it is time to grab your notebooks and your headphones and tune into the economics crash course for your ears.

Planet Money Summer School is covering the economic history of the world. From the birth of money to the Industrial Revolution to modern trade policy, we've got the lessons to keep you sounding smart at the beach with help from real economic historians. Every Wednesday until Labor Day. Listen to Planet Money from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hello, everyone. I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm Amber Ruffin, a better Lacey Lamar. Boo.

Boo. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. You thought you had fun last season? Well, you were right. And you should tune in today for new fun segments like Sister Court and listening to Lacey's steamy DMs. We've got new and exciting guests like Michael Beach. That's my husband. Daphne Springs.

Daniel Thrasher, Peppermint, Morgan J., and more. You gotta watch us. No, you mean you have to listen to us. I mean, you can still watch us, but you gotta listen. Like, if you're watching us, you have to tell us. Like, if you're out the window, you have to say, hey, I'm watching you outside of the window. Just, you know what? Listen to the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the CINO Show. I'm your host, CINO McFarlane. I'm an addiction specialist. I'm a coach. I'm a translator. And I'm God's middleman. My job is to crack hearts and let the light in and help everyone shift the narrative. Whether your get down is sex, drugs, alcohol, love addiction, self-hate, codependency, or anything else for that matter.

I want to help you wake up and I want to help you get free. I want to help you unleash your potential, overcome obstacles, and achieve your goals. Most importantly, I don't want you to feel alone. So join me on The Cino Show, where each week we'll feature a compelling individual with an even more noteworthy story that will be sure to inspire and educate. Listen to The Cino Show every Wednesday on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. So she's bringing, what are we going to do now? Okay. You're a, you're a doctor said you have asthma. And by the way, we all know doctors will say anything and maybe she has asthma. Maybe she doesn't. It's not the content. It's the delivery. She had a lot of inhalers. So she must have had asthma. Well, any of us who know someone who seems like we're not going to diagnose seems like

a hypochondriac. And by the way, for people saying she has Munchausen's, Munchausen's is when you put it on your kids. Yeah, that's right. And you make every, you make your kids. For other people. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly. They, you're being like,

a fatalist about everything, about other people. And it often happens to kids. You want the sympathy and the empathy for being the one, like that's, you know, that's the poor mother whose child is in the hospital or whose husband is dying. That's Munchausen. Yes. So Munchausen,

is kids or other people, but you're like getting attention and it's a sickness where you derive some sort of subconscious pleasure from somebody else being sick. Like you're, you're crowdsourcing attention and you, you be dramatic about it and you tell, and I've known people who have had it and hypochondria, there was a movie about it. What was it with that? There was a movie where the woman sharp objects, she was poisoning her child. Yeah. Slow. Cause she, cause people enjoy hypochondria.

their subconscious of their child being sick. It gives them purpose. Munchausen's often gives the person purpose and they think that they're getting attention by saying all these different things. With her, it's hyper-consciousness.

It seems like she's a bit of a hypochondriac with her. She has these ailments and the language in which she's describing the asthma. That was what was weird. She was like, it's not the asthma. It's the acid reflux that comes with the, you know, people do that about food. Well, I'm gluten free, but I'm celiac because when I do this and it's bad and I can't process glutamine and you're just like, I don't, I don't want to know all of this and I'm sorry that I'm not compassionate. Shut the fuck up.

See, I am compassionate. And when somebody tells me that they are suffering, I would take them at their word and I would be trying to be as helpful and kind and reaching out as I possibly could. But when they started taking advantage of me because of their issues, that's where you start going, oh, hold on a second.

You know, oh, I can't come and help you at your house because my asthma is kicking up. I can't come on a vacation trip with you because my arm hurts. I can't do this because... And how come you're not feeling sorry for me? How come you're being mad at me for not showing up when I'm suffering? Oh, so you're saying...

you're saying it's sort of like waterboarding or they're overplaying their ailment hand. They're being victims. Yeah. So she pushed it. And there's a certain sense of entitlement. You know, like I...

I'm the one who's suffering here. So how come I'm not getting more applause, which is what she did in the St. Barnes episode. Well, also, no, it sounds like a scam. But Paulina, it also just sounds like a scam. There's nobody in the state of Montana that has asthma. I'm sure there's statistics about it. So I think it's also...

I can't go to restaurants because I have, you know, because I get hives. Like I have psoriasis. It's like random. Yeah. I can't go to supermarkets because I get anxiety attacks. Exactly. Right? Yeah. And you know what? That is actually true. But I'm freaking going to go to the supermarket anyway because otherwise I'm not going to have any food. And, you know, you just kind of sort it out. Like you white knuckle it. Or you're just a person that never leaves your house, but you're not on a reality show.

But you also don't ask your friends to applaud you for, you know, stepping inside the supermarket and being like, everybody watch me overcome my fear. Oh, pulling focus on the whole thing. That's fair, too. That's a great. OK, great. So this is what I found interesting.

this was a very staged episode if I'm thinking about it. Cause this too was like, I'm going to, cause the way she pulled the leg off was so immediate. You had to have a plan for that. I don't think her leg just falls off in dinners. Like that was like, I have a, it was like, it was a soap. I was like a telenovela. So that, and having the combination of the x-rays, the envelope, the throwing the envelope and having the leg be able to detach so fast and throw it was all so fake. And that's what people despise. Yeah.

And it left me wondering, I had no qualms that this was a setup, that she knew that she was going to throw her leg, that she had this all planned out in her mind. I just wasn't sure if it was maybe nudged by the producers. I know. I'll never know. I actually will know. Edged in there a little bit and said, you know what would be fabulous?

I do think. You get some attention. You know how you could really shut everybody up and like really come off as, you know, you know, it would make you bigger. Oh, and also I'm the queen of the one liners and they always are just immediate. But having a line assigned to a move.

The only thing not natural about me is that like having a line assigned to a move like that is very staged. And you're right. The producers definitely had something to do with that because they would have to know exactly where the camera would be in that exact instant. And I'm going to say that, yes, the producers probably did that. But the bigger lesson in life is nobody can make you do something you don't want to do. And you definitely shouldn't. Oh, unquestionably. But I wonder, okay. So because you obviously, you know, my reality show lasted like one season and

When you are kind of in the middle of this and you have the producers come up to you and go, Bethany, you know what would be really great? Like, you know, take her aside and whisper this or do that. And, you know, it will make your brand come more alive if you did this or if you did that. Like when, because you're so passionate

immersed in it for the months that you're filming it, it's kind of, isn't it hard to stay objective and know where your truth is at some point?

Because they're obviously playing to your weaknesses and your strengths. My hand to God, and you can ask every single producer I've ever worked with, what happens is you're pulling up to a scene, they're micing you at the same time the producer comes into the car, and they're saying, okay, so are you going to talk to Sonia tonight about her divorce? Are you going to talk to her? They want to give you some notes that they have on their big white family tree board of different dramas and things that they have going on. And I'm always like, get out of here. Like, I don't, you know, I don't need to...

I need to be reminded. I know what's going on. Like, I'm not that girl. But newer people...

Who want to be successful and have preconceived notions because they've seen Teresa flip a table. And every season there's more elaborate drama that if you watch in the beginning seasons, they didn't exist. Like the biggest thing that ever happened was Kelly saying, you know, this is you, this is me. Meaning I'm up here, you're down here. That was like big drama. Then later, you know, people feel like I've got to flip a table, then throw a leg, then pull someone's extensions out. So,

If you're coming into a show that's been going on for so many years, you've watched it, you've seen dramatic things, now you've gotten the show, you've studied it, because most people pretend they don't watch and then study it before they go on. It's a different type of cast member than someone who just was born into it, didn't know what the hell we were doing, didn't wear makeup, and just lived naturally and normally, or is just natural at it. These other people are very staged, and they can be influenced completely.

by the producers and you can hear in their interviews lines that have been made up for them or fed to them and you can even hear it in their taglines. Kristen made some line about like equating her sex life. Well, now my sex life will be spicier too because whatever she said about the modeling and that was a producer's line. That wasn't something that came out of her mouth.

So it works in many cases and it works more in Beverly Hills because it's such a polished, glamorous show. So that show they can get away with a lot more with outfits and makeup and houses because that's what you're expecting. Setups. Setups. Because you feel like the whole thing is, yeah, I mean, it's like Barbie World or something. It works better there because everything seems a little plastic. It's safe.

Yeah. So it just it works better there. Anything staged, anything. So hair and makeup. It just works better there than it does on this show. And in this era, New York is always a little messier. And Orange County is always a little messier. Atlanta is messier. And I like the messy shows better than the policy show best because they're well, because they're a little bit closer to the truth.

Although sometimes the very polished LA version is, it's more relaxing. It's like, again, like I said, I feel like I learned from the housewives and it's from specifically from New York housewives. I don't learn that much from LA. I just look at it and I go, oh, look at this.

The pink roses and the pink couches and the, you know, it's not landing Falcon crest. You're your dynasty. You're watching exactly, which is entertaining and why it does so well, but it's a different type of show. It is there. They can rely less. They have to make more of an effort in how they look and how they live.

than what they say and what they do. Yes, exactly. And what pets they have purchased or saved or. Yeah, exactly. And by the way, I, that would be harder for me. Words coming out of my mouth is not hard. Figuring out how to like make myself like a Barbie doll every day would be very challenging. Oh my God. That to me is like, that would be such a slog. Like having to look. That is one of the things that intrigues me about the Hollywood one is that how, how perfectly put together they look at all times. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, my God, there's so much work. And the purse put directly in the camera angle, like the Hermes bag every time right in the camera angle, then a price underneath. It's revolting, but fabulous. Yeah. In fairness and in credit to them, they were reacting in a way that is kind of like saying that is fake and fucked up and like that you need help.

Like they were reacting properly. Yeah. I like the fact that a couple of them just kind of laughed in horror. They just sort of turned around and laughed. Yeah. But her laugh, and I know Luann's laugh was saying like,

I can't fucking believe that this just happened. And she's thinking of the producers and the cast. Yes. She just is laughing. And she's thinking of the fact that it's a finale. So that's a moment. They're all thinking 10 different things. And there were 10,000 calls the next day to the producers. Trust and believe. Ah, interesting. And to brawl. But obviously, when I watched it for the first time, I felt...

I felt like she, it was a definite, like, like she came in prepared to do this. She had like her whole narrative in her head. She's also not a great actress, so she didn't carry it off making it look like an impulse. You know, she looks like it is premeditation, but it was only rewatching it where I thought this seems like it's been a setup by the producers. This actually seems like somebody needled her saying, you know, it would be really great. And she just,

Maybe she was feeling insecure on a show. Nobody liked her. She wasn't doing that well in the ratings and she might have thought this will be the one thing that will somehow pick her up a little bit. Right.

Well, I was just going to ask you what your high and your low was or moments in the show. And I was thinking one of my highs, believe it or not, was seeing the reveal of Carol's apartment. And because people think that I just want to hate on everybody, I want to say something positive. I want to say that she does have good taste and good style, that that apartment looked great. Just a random compliment I'm throwing out.

that's a that's very nice of you and yes she has amazing style and her apartment looks amazing although I thought it looked really pretty good before that too yeah I don't I don't have a great sense of style so well she goes all the way on each piece which I respect and I don't do I go for a whole look and it always looks really good but she like picks each different the wallpaper is its own statement the the the lighting fixture each coffee table each coaster every single moment is a

statement. And when you're designing a place, I like my accessories to do that, but I don't have the time to like one at a time pick each thing. I want to kind of get the canvas done and then accessorize. So I thought that was...

Something to compliment. So do you have any kind of high or low that you want to mention? Well, I thought, again, for me, and I'm still sticking by this, the low to me was the book gate thing. Yeah. Well, see, it affected me, which is why I'm thinking that maybe Carol wasn't so...

So far off the mark, because I think if you know, like you said, okay, somebody accuses me of plastic surgery, it's so patently obvious that I haven't had any and it's so easily proven. But if somebody said your book was not written by you, somebody I heard that there was a ghostwriter on your book, it would hurt.

I would take offense to that because that is like my sensitive area, not because I can't write, because people don't generally give me credit for being able to do anything but look pretty. Oh, that's fair. And also...

You're on a show. You don't know what's coming out of the oven. You've just thrown the chocolate chips in and some baking powder and the rest isn't there. And you've got to wait six months and your, your career has been being a writer and your financial stability has been being a writer and you might want to write more books and you don't know how the,

the reader and the buyer is going to perceive it. So you have to wait. And that's why reality TV is really painful in that way. You just, something happened and you're still shooting the scene. So somebody said something to you that you weren't expecting you. They pull your pants down in the middle of the street and you still have to keep filming as if nothing just happened. So you're doing two things at the same time. You're thinking you're obsessing inside. You're sweating. Ramona is amazing at this because she doesn't care what she's just said. So she can move on. In my head, I'd be like,

you're thinking about what was just said, but you can't like get stumped and show. So you have to move forward and say what you're saying. Then you're going to obsess for days and weeks and months about,

About what that's going to look like later. It's a torturous thing. And I always say they're not getting paid whatever they're getting paid. The good ones. It's not even enough. It's torture. People go. And this is why while we like it and it's taught us a lot. One of the things I don't love about housewives is that many women have gone on anti-anxiety drugs as a result of being on the show to manage and stay on the show.

So that's not is your job that you've chosen to do and get paid for to be in the light. But it's the devil because it's got another side to it. So you get to be famous. You get to be in the light. But you have to endure media scrutiny, lies, truths. Doesn't matter. And all the skeletons are coming out. And you may have to go on anti-anxiety medication.

or just won't sleep for six months. It's really brutal. Yeah. Yeah. But then that's, that sort of is the, it also belongs to the category of just being famous, right? Like if you're, if you suddenly become a public figure from going from, you know, being known around town to being nationally known or internationally known. Yes. But I'll challenge you because those, some people that are very, let's take a mall in George, for example, versus Kim Kardashian and Pete Davidson. Okay. Um,

Amal and George have chosen the way that they want to be famous. I know they're in Lake Como. You can go be by their house, et cetera. There's paparazzi, et cetera. But they know them and they're locally known and they find a way to have a quiet life and then bust out and go to the Met Gala and be as famous in Hollywood as possible when they want to. But they can sit back and chill. And other really famous people choose to constantly be in the machine. Being on The Housewives is a different machine. It's like churning out junk food all

every day all the time and these women take the hit because they want the good and then then they take the bad when i used to go to la i'd go out to dinner with kyle and she'd want to go to craigs and i'd be like i really don't want to go to where that paparazzi is i was not born and meant to be famous i don't want to put on the eyelashes and the makeup and take the picture i don't want to live that cycle i'd rather do it here with you and we choose to be here to then be public and this might get picked up in a magazine it's control i don't want to do it in

another type of way. So it's a different genre. You can't hide because, because George and Amal or Kim and whatever, the people that they're on the show with, they're producing the show. So it's not like a daily immediate people that just want to

take you down the housewives is like you're on a basketball team on the front lines but the other four people really will only win if you're losing like in some scenes so the whole game is like not like we're all going to beat the other team we must beat each other at all times in some way and we can pretend we're all friends because we're on the same team but i must be winning and you must be losing for that scene to win see they all ganged up against aviva aviva was losing

If they push it too far, she'll be winning. They'll all be losing. The pendulum is always swinging. So it's very erratic. It's different than normal fame. You are. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. Also question being on a reality show and you were like on whatever a lot, right? For the four months that you're doing it. And so you're living your life in front of the camera. How do you feel when you get off?

Like all you do is talk to everybody else about what happened and what's going to happen. You're in a vicious and some people are worse. I know the exact housewives who talk about it 24 hours a day. And it's, it's, it's part of why you want to get off. And then I know, and I know other cast members and you go out to dinner with them and it's all you talk about what's going on in your cast. They're cut. Now there's cross gossip. And, um,

It doesn't matter how intelligent and Carol Radza will you seem because she talks about it as much, if not more, than others that you wouldn't. Like, Luann will talk about it, but not as much as someone like Carol. You know? You'd think that Sonia, because she's fun and wacky, Ramona will talk about it way less than someone like Sonia. Ramona wants to go on the trip, pretend it's a real trip, have fun, then go back to her own life and her Chardonnay with her friends. Mm-hmm.

Sonia will be talking about it 24 hours a day on camera, off camera, on season, off season. You call her and like it gets to there and you're like, I don't want to talk about that. Kyle is kind of in it, in and out of it a lot too. Like different people are at different rates, but everybody's talking about it all the time when you're in that process. And that's one of the things I really didn't like.

Wow. All the time. That's like completely life consuming. All the time. Anyone who says they don't is lying all the time. And they're texting Andy. Something just happened. And they're talking to the producers all the time as if the producers are their best friends. Because that's how they jockey to get good scenes or get things taken out or push things to be taken in or make, get pet and feel better about what happened. And the producers have to make you feel like it wasn't that bad, even though it was bad. Yeah.

And make the people, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, or that it was really good, even though it wasn't good. It's a nonstop cycle of that. So it's, they deserve all the money they get because it's 24 hours a day for those four months. And then they're still doing interviews and then it airs and it starts all over again. It airs and it's the media talking about it and the things that your castmate didn't see that happened. And it's, it's a, it's a circular reference. It's a nightmare to be honest. Yeah.

Okay, you just made it sound completely unappealing to be a part of the cast. Now I feel sorry for everybody. Yeah. No, I'm just saying they're earning the money they make. Someone, and I'm going to give special shout outs to people like Erica Jane, to Teresa, who've gone through public things and have been dragged behind a

a car and been on the ultimate roller coaster. Kyle and Kim and the Kathy and the family drama that comes out. So you have other family members involved that they earn the money they're making. It's a fucking drag and pour Tabasco sauce on their bodies after they all know it's true. And everybody knows everything I said was true. It's a fact. These are facts.

You mean it's not word from the street? Word on the street? No, these are facts. Amazing. Thank you, Paulina. Bye. Bye. It is summer. And on NPR's Planet Money podcast, that means it is time to grab your notebooks and your headphones and tune into the economics crash course for your ears.

Planet Money Summer School is covering the economic history of the world. From the birth of money to the Industrial Revolution to modern trade policy, we've got the lessons to keep you sounding smart at the beach with help from real economic historians. Every Wednesday until Labor Day. Listen to Planet Money from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the CINO Show. I'm your host, Cino McFarlane. I'm an addiction specialist. I'm a coach. I'm a translator. And I'm God's middleman. My job is to crack hearts and let the light in and help everyone shift the narrative. I want to help you wake up and I want to help you get free. Most importantly, I don't want you to feel alone. Listen to the CINO Show every Wednesday on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm also Lacey Lamar. Just kidding. I'm Amber Revin. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. This season, we make new friends, deep dive into my steamy DMs,

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