me & Emma Neill meeting IRL for the first time
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But that's why influencer marketing works. Good segue into the podcast. Hello. What I wanted to talk about was influencer marketing and why it worked so well when it first started and why brands is like,

because it feels like you're getting recommended something by your friend and it feels natural so it's like this actually does so if you're watching an ad by someone that you usually watch and it's like you have a parasocial relationship with them you feel like you know them and they're coming on being like i love this thing you're actually going to feel like oh it's like your friend going i love this you should try it yeah you'd be more inclined to buy it rather than a tv ad being like oh my god l'oreal makes my skin so smooth and soft you know and it's a celebrity going on like that doesn't work for in america though i've noticed have you been to america

It's a strange place I've been once. If you watch the telly they have ads like literally every five minutes on a show. It's crazy. Like literally every five minutes and the ads are like 10 minutes long and every single ad is a celebrity being like I love this you know Dior Sauvage whatever and they're talking about this and they're like posing with the product. It's crazy. They love celebrities in America. Do they? They love them.

Yeah, I don't think we're obsessed with celebrities here. But I don't know, though. They always do say, like, the British media are really psycho on celebrities here. Whereas I think everyone in America is very, like, bigs everyone up and, like, loves the celebrities. Yeah, I think it's because it's, like...

in the US it's like capitalism can they love anyone who's had a story where it's like they come from nothing and now they're a millionaire yeah they love that story because that's the American dream that's been sold to them so they're like that could be me one day yeah so that's why they love celebrities and they love that like glitz and glamour of it I suppose where I suppose because Hollywood originated from there and all the movies and everything it's like yeah the American dream that's being sold whereas in Britain it's like

The celebrities are sort of like the monarchy. We don't like people getting above a certain point. Once people get above a certain point, it's like, how can we rip them down? How can we rip them shreds here? In Ireland, they're really uncomfortable with it. Yeah. It's like, who do you think you are? You love yourself sort of thing. Yeah.

Oh, 100%. But I think it's, like, evolving now a little bit. Sometimes. Yeah. I think it's slightly better. Like, I remember back when I was... I went through a real, like, wacky clothes stage when I was about 18. Like, a just-left skull was just, like, really experimental fashion-wise. Yeah. And, like, the looks I would get was... Like, people were gawking, like, staring at me walking past. And I was like, it's just a camo top. Like, relax. Yeah.

like oh my god i can't see her torso why is that woman floating that was a really bad example i actually used to wear a mod chip once i had this like banana bucket hot with a yellow fur tray in fairness i'd be gawking yeah i'd be taking a look at myself in that case as well but like whereas now i feel like no one really looks twice i do think we're getting a little bit better at like normalizing individuality and like not but i still think we're bad for tearing people down though especially women

Yeah, I do think especially since the you know, the way Chaparone doesn't want people taking pictures of her. I did not know that. Did you say not see this thing? No. Okay, so what's coming on now is Chaparone basically made this TikTok and was like, I'm uncomfortable with people heckling from me heckling at me from a car. Someone found out where my sister lives. People have been showing up to my parents house. This is not normal and shouldn't be normalized as like comes along with fame.

Because Chaperone is like a persona that she has to sing. She was like, me as a person, I'm not comfortable with it. And then everyone in the comments was basically ripping her to shreds. She took the comments off because everyone was saying that she's a diva and she's ungrateful. Whereas like in comparison, Cillian Murphy has come online loads of times before and he is revered for saying that he doesn't like taking photos. He just wants to have conversations. And that's like known if you ever see him in Dublin. If you go up and ask for a photo, he goes, I don't do pictures. I only do conversations. But you would never online being like,

I met Cillian Murphy and he was so rude to me because he wouldn't take a picture with me. Do you know what I mean? But like chaperone is a fucking bitch because she won't take a photo with you. But for people to feel like they're entitled to that because they listen to her music or they buy a concert ticket that all of a sudden she's like an object for them or a souvenir to have to make you feel special. Yeah. Well, I saw like Drew Afuelo and...

was Lizzo both came on and both had different experiences they had with people like basically stalking them or chasing them down for a picture and how uncomfortable it made them um because I think it maybe it's a little bit different for influencers because everyone's like well you're not even famous anyway I don't think that you know I don't think that I'm not talking from my own experience either no one gives a shit who I am but like you know what I mean um but people go up to like big influencers it's it does it's kind of different because

You would feel like you're owed that because these people have put themselves in the position to be looked at. And their job is very much around taking photos and taking videos and putting it out there. Whereas someone that's like, well, Chapel Rowan or Cillian Murphy, for example, their job isn't that. Their job is putting their art out there. Like they don't want to be...

a persona in the public eye. They want their art to be spread as opposed to like their personality be hounded. I know. But just the fact that everyone was like, she's a little cunt now because she, because she wanted to take a photo with me, like take a selfie with me. But you heard so much with women and like, I don't know, like even when I was

In a salon recently and like someone just turned around and was like, oh, I fucking hate. And I don't even know if I want to say who it was, but just like an Irish podcaster that's done like really well for herself. And you're just like, but why? Like you have literally no... I said, why do you hate her? Like I love her. And they were like...

No reason like I just she just grinds on me like you would never turn around and say that but it's just like a meal doing well for themselves. But as well you wouldn't feel comfortable saying you know if you're an adult and you're like working in a group of people and you just randomly said about your co-worker I fucking hate them to someone that you don't even know that well. Yeah. It's not a normal thing to do. No it's not. For celebrities and like people in the public life for some reason it's like they're open to

they're opening themselves to criticism so it's my right to talk shit about them. Yeah. No, it's your right to have an opinion. Everyone can have an opinion on anything and anyone but like I feel the need to spread it and use it as like it's when people use it as well as like a like a thing for them to get more clout and you're like I see what you're doing here. That's been happening a lot. I feel like

People coming online being like, I met this influencer and they were so rude. Yeah. Because they know it's going to get like traction. Or do you see the 5K drama? I'm over that. I'm so done. I'm so over it. Whoever that girl is though, she's a fucking legend. The girl that did the 5K or the girl that did the video? No, the girl who did the fake 5K. I'm sorry. What an icon. Work smarter, not harder. Okay.

I love it. But like people going crazy and this is what I mean about like people would just take anything out of context and like spin a web so fucking wound up that it doesn't even make any sense anymore. Like I was seeing comments that I was why it was actually winding me up. I nearly deleted TikTok. It was winding me up so much. This is setting an unrealistic expectation for women everywhere. And I was like, but it's not a body checking picture. It's just being like I'm faking a run. Like that's just, you know what I mean? It's actually, it's not that damaging. If anything, it's influencing people to do exercise. Like that is not a bad thing.

Yeah, it's more... It's just more... I suppose the criticism was making people think that they should look a certain way when they're running. But, like, who gives a fuck you're on the run? No, sorry. Yeah, I just think there's a... Everyone's like...

influencer needs to be more real it needs to be more authentic but like the purpose of social media and what performs well if it is your job is not the real stuff and like yeah people get dragged down if they do post something real like you get you get criticized if you come on if you have like fat roles someone's going to say something about it if you come on you're not looking that well people will be like oh geez you look horrible do you know what I mean so why would

Why would people put themselves in the position to be extra criticized, especially as a woman, when you know that you are going to be putting yourself on a platter for criticism? Yeah, people want... People say they want real and authentic, but they want it, like... In a stylized way. In a way that's, like, palatable and, like, yeah, very stylistic and still aesthetic. And it's like, well, if you want that, the two things aren't really...

They don't really go hand in hand, let's be honest. No. And even the content that I would see, and obviously because I suppose if you work in social media, you have like a certain level of social media literacy where you know where something is posed or fake or like put in a way where it is more palatable for people. And if I see that content that's like being posed as relatable or like down to earth or, you know, people are like, this is so vulnerable in the comments. I know that's not the whole, like that's not the full story because people aren't like

hashing everything out on the internet and being 100% completely themselves because it wouldn't

Yeah, it just wouldn't perform well and people wouldn't... Yeah. Also, like, how real can you really be in short-form content? Do you know what I mean? Like, sitting down like this on a podcast or, like, a long YouTube video or something, yeah, you can get more... You can get... You can get deep. You can get deep. You can get into it. But, like, how real is, like, an edited one-minute-long video that needs to be snappy and needs... Do you know what I mean? Yeah. How real can you get with that? Like, it's just...

I don't know. I think the two things don't really go that hand in hand, to be honest. And you're not taking videos of stuff that you wouldn't find aesthetic. Yeah, exactly. Keeping it real.

Like my apartment When I lived in my dad's house Like he has a stunning gaff And I would just be like Posing as if it was My own house Showing every part of it You know what I mean But the apartment That I live in now Is like the classic Ireland shitty Was built like 80 years ago Or something And like mouldy tiles And all And I'm not like Making my good Cooking videos anymore Outfit of the day Yeah and I'm just like

you know here's an everything shower with me with the mold in the corner and the mushrooms you know those shower doors you have to like lift it's like doesn't even close properly and the you can't change the temperature of the shower so it's like piping hot all the time and i'm going in and out all the time i'm just like so ecstatic you know but if for example like that if i uploaded something like that that would be me actually keeping it real but i know that i would get

like torn apart over my moldy bathroom you know there's nothing I can do about it and we like we have painted so basically we got the bathroom painted and we wanted like a sage green but it came out like a lime you know like the the color of a daycare or a creche like a lime green I was like this is fucking rotten so we had to paint over it again but you had to do the under painting yeah and then because there were so many layers of paint and obviously it's steamy bathroom and there's no window in it it all started peeling off

Oh, so it's like peely paint, moldy, broken shower door, the light, half the light bulbs don't work. Self-care evening. I know. I'm just like, oh, so aesthetic. My aesthetic lifestyle. But yeah, so that's what I mean by like, it is hard to keep it real because that's not something that I would want to see. Like I feel embarrassed showing that.

Yeah, it's like, you know, when you have guests coming to your house and you want to only show like the bathroom. I only show the main bathroom. Yeah. With the bath. Yeah.

Your house looking the best. And it's like, yeah, social media is like that in a way, isn't it? Yeah. And I know I love cleaning. I'm like on clean talk. That's my favorite. Oh, I'm like obsessive. I'm obsessed with it. Like all the chemicals. Like I'm literally like, I will buy every single thing. It'll get to my veins. It'll all get to my veins. You know, like, you know, when they're mixing like hydrogen peroxide and bleach at the same time, apparently it's supposed to like. I'm not into this like chemical engineering. Oh, sorry.

what do you mean you know if you mix those two chemicals I don't know if it's hydrogen peroxide but it's like one chemical you use for bathroom cleaning and you can't use with bleach at the same time because it like makes this fume where it makes you faint um I'm watching I know exactly and it's like really dangerous if it happens but I'm watching all these clean talk videos I'm like how are these people not like yeah passing out fumigating their graphs like there's no need for all these chemicals

You know, all these powders and like foamy things. But I eat it up. I defumigate my house recently because my cat got fleas. Sorry, is this... Did you figure out how he got... Is it he or she? She? Don't want to misgender. She. How did she get fleas? Did you figure it out? Just probably from another cat. I don't know. She's an outdoor cat, so like... Oh, she's outdoor. Sorry, yeah. Because I know... I've heard of people having indoor cats and them getting it through the vets. Like going to the vets. That happened to me, yeah. Someone I know recently. But...

She hasn't really come back to my house recently in the last four weeks. So I'm kind of distraught, but she's cheating on you. She's cheating on me big time. But yeah, I had to film and get the whole house. And it was like so scary because obviously it's quite a toxic spray, the gas. So you have to like really quickly do a room, shut the door and then be like...

And then breathe in again And then go downstairs And like Do you know what I mean Like you don't want to inhale Any bit And then you need to leave Your house for hours But yeah It was a fucking nightmare Oh my god And did you have to like Boil wash all your sheets Uh

I put them in, my parents have a dryer. So I was bringing everything to their house and drying it. And then I was just like leaving piles of stuff there. So I didn't have to bring anything back too prematurely to mine until I dealt with the problem. But I didn't sleep in my house for two weeks. I didn't sit on my sofa or in my living room for...

over a month because I was just like scared of the place no that's like my worst nightmare I saw in your story you were like my worst fear is bed bugs scabies and fleas like that's one of my things I hate well I've gotten scabies before it's like it is literally the worst thing I've ever experienced in my whole life and what do you how do you get rid of them in your skin is it a cream a cream yeah all right you have to put it everywhere like in your ass crack and everything all over your body I know we went to this crazy doctor now he's actually in prison now but we went to this crazy doctor

Because we went to this crazy doctor and he's like known for over prescribing stuff. Right. And my dad in desperation brought us and was like, all my kids have scabies. We will literally do anything. Like I'm nearly... What have you got for us? No, I got to the stage where my mom was like looking up herbal remedies for it because like nothing was working. I remember slathering myself in castor oil. But it's good for... Apparently it's good for your under eye dark circles. But...

be careful but anyway apparently that was one of the remedies but then we went to this crazy doctor and he prescribed us like 10 things each and we were like taking a pill had three creams before bed and he was like don't wear shoes as much as possible throw out anything that's leather it's like they live in leather and all this shit it was a nightmare we got rid of it in the end

So now I have a fear, like if I fully traumatic, it was really traumatic. So if I ever like itching, they start at the, in between your fingers, your knees, um, your wrists and your ankles. So if you're ever itchy there, I literally like would just buy myself the cream straight away.

It's like the fear of nits. Like I, my daughter has like a knit repellent spray that I put on her and she's like, she doesn't have, she has two strands of hair in her head. She can't get nits. But every time before we go to like a kid's thing, I'm like spritzing because it's my worst nightmare. I hate it. At least nits,

in your head. Like, do you know what I mean? Scabies and fleas and bed bugs is like everywhere. Yeah, that I suppose that stays in your head. The next thing though is like scabies is hard to transfer onto another person. Like you could go to school and you're not, if you're not touching anyone or sleeping in someone's bed, you're not going to pass it on. But when it's, I don't want to spread because then it's just like everybody has it. Yeah, the whole class has it. Yeah, I remember that in primary school and you would just like, when there was a knit outbreak and you would look around and everyone's just sitting there scratching their asses.

And then you would just know who the culprit was because they had it the worst and they'd be like crawling down their forehead. Oh my God. I do have a memory as a kid of a nip crawling down my forehead. Oh my God. It was horrible. Isn't it weird how you just stop getting that? Like, why do we just, why don't you get nips when you're an adult?

It's probably because they don't like the scalp as much. And maybe you're not as close to people. I don't know, actually. Because even when we all got nits, my mom never got it off us. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, why is it the kids? And I know kids probably run around together more and like maybe... But I don't know. I feel like I'm pretty close to my friends as well. And I'm with them. Maybe not as frequently. Yeah, because you're not seeing them every single day. Yeah. I actually don't know. But yeah, it's one of my things. And you know if kids start...

My daughter will be starting Now play school next year And apparently they come back With like every single disease You can think of For the first like three weeks Yeah it's like the first Exposure to all of that It's like conjunctivitis And like stomach flus Now I'm not looking forward to that Like now when we were younger My ma If we had the vomiting bug She'd make us clean it up ourselves Oh

She would like Clean that up now And throw a sponge at us Wait was she scared Of getting sick No no She was just like I'm not I'm not doing it She was just like You can do it yourself You're over the age of three So you can look after yourselves now You can hold a sponge Yeah you can fucking do it But it would be I just remember Fucking hating them so much And actually crying over the toilet Being like Mummy And she was just like Come on now you're grand

Get up, will you? Get to the toilet for fuck's sake. It's horrible though. I'm not looking forward to that phase of childhood. Yeah. Just like getting sick all the time. I hate it. Yeah. And like, what's the big vomiting? Norovirus? Norovirus? The big vomiting one? Oh yeah. That all the kids always get? Yeah. No. Not looking forward to that for you. No. Oh yeah. I wanted to talk about, oh yeah. What do you think about the overconsumption versus underconsumption core?

TikToks? Yeah I don't think we actually see any legit under consumption content because people don't like that really the capitalist society don't we don't like that. No no sure I love it I love getting little bits yeah do you know what I mean I am like I am addicted to getting a few bits yeah if I'm feeling sad I'll go to like do you have Sastrana Grenna? Oh my god I love that place. I actually watched a Scandinavian video and that's how you're supposed to pronounce it I was like Sastrana Grenna. Yeah that's what I call it. It's Sastrana Grenna.

Oh, right. Something like that. But I'm like, oh my God, I'm obsessed with baskets. I'm like, I need like fucking 10 baskets. Yeah, boxes in front of my bed, little notebooks. No, I love that place. But like realistically proper like minimalists and proper like people that actually are under consumption core, they're not making engaging content about it. People don't care. They want to be sold the next thing. They want to buy into the next thing and like feel good about it and get that dopamine rush. So like we can tell ourselves all we want that we're...

yeah being better with the de-influencing side of things but like

You're just feeding into another trend, really. I know, and I'm eating it up. Is it hard if you're buying for a house? You know, buying stuff for your house. Yeah. And like trying to get... I find that trying to... There's always something else that you need. No, there's always something. It's a fucking nightmare. And you never... Like before you have a heist about it, I think it's where you don't realize how much everything is. And then when you're getting everything, it's like, oh my God, I have to literally like... Because in the...

I thought I would get everything I wanted done in my house within the first six months. I'm now seven or eight months down the line and nowhere near even like started. Did you need less work? Everything just cost so much. Not even like proper work, but just more. Like I got a quote for a built-in wardrobe the other day. I guess I might. Saying this to me. Her quote now was 12 grand. Mine was 10 grand. Oh yeah, that would be the same conversion, wouldn't it? Yeah. Oh my, it's a nightmare. What the fuck? Yeah, I know. Yeah.

It's crazy Who has that money Just get a few Ikea ones And glue them together Yeah I think I'm gonna have to do that Drill them into the wall Yeah But like who's going out And just Like dropping ten grand On a wardrobe

It's crazy. Why is it so expensive? I don't know. Is it getting more expensive or was it always been like that? I think we're actually majorly lacking in tradesmen and I don't know about the South, but like the North is majorly lacking in tradesmen because everyone goes to Australia because they pay so well for tradesmen there. Oh, okay. If you're a tradesman in Australia, you're on like... My ex-boyfriend was like... He didn't even have a trade. He was just working as like a...

like a general kind of, what do you even call that? I don't know. And he was making like the equivalent, well, about 100 Australian dollars an hour, which is about 60 pounds an hour. And he didn't even have a trade. That's crazy. Yeah, I know. Australia strikes again. Those fucking bastards. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of being influenced to go to Australia. So if you're like a tradesman or like a nurse or a doctor, like everyone just goes to Australia.

Australia because they pay their workers fairly. Oh my God. Do you think they'd take, like Ireland would just take a note out of the book, take a leaf out of the book and just be like, actually this is what will work. Well, surely you can look at a country that like, yeah, it's working for, like you never really hear of too much wrong in terms of,

Australia's economy or it's because you know they have a woman leader that's it yeah that's literally it that is and they had like the lowest numbers of COVID the lowest cases of COVID in the world they are an island in the middle of nowhere but then so are we yeah yeah so they were doing the two-week quarantine thing yeah anyone came into the country Boris Johnson could never sorry his hair is stunning do you think it's real or is it a toupee

I think it's real. It's like crazy. I think if you had a toupee, you'd want something a bit thicker than that. Okay, so... You're a podcast. Do you not talk about growing up? Yeah. Oh, yeah, sorry. Well, we will talk about growing up because I always forget. I'm just like, well, because we probably have lots to talk about. I'm like, there's a lot to go through. Yeah, you don't do an intro. I don't. You just go. Sometimes I do an intro if I'm in the mood. But most of the time, I'll just go straight in. But it's just like...

I'm not waiting around. Yeah. So would you want to tell me what was in your lunchbox at school? I've been waiting for this question. You're like, finally, you asked me. I've always been a real weirdo with meat my whole life. Like see, packaged, like, you know, ham slices and stuff. Yeah. No, the smell of the ham. The smell of the ham.

Oh my god. Or like the packs of like the chicken pieces. They've always really turned me. No, they're horrible. So growing up, I was always a cheese sandwich kind of girl. Okay. Just like pretty simple cheese and butter. And then my mom started going a bit bougie on us, which was her mistake. And as a mother, you should never start.

start this because then they'll want the nicer thing. Do you know what I mean? Oh yeah. If you get used to the nice thing then you're like why are you giving me the shit one now? Yeah. So like you're better just staying with the shit thing. So anyway we elevated from or no we upgraded from the basic cheese sandwich to she'd be getting up cooking like the fresh baguettes in the morning. My mom went to

I went through one of those phases as well the fresh baguettes I was like wait what's going on here yeah yeah she'd be getting up extra early to stick that in the oven for 10 minutes no she wasn't baking it from scratch she was those ones you get in Tesco where you stick in the oven for 10 minutes she was doing like pasta salads that type of thing and from then on there was no going back to the basics no yeah

But they were pretty stunning. I really appreciate my mom and the effort she went to for our school lunches. We were a granola family for sure. We're a granola ingredient family. I can tell from your cooking videos. I'm literally like, I'm weaning myself off instant noodles. Week one. Here we go.

I'm addicted to the corn slices of fake ham. Oh, they're really good actually, which is surprising for me when I hated the normal ham. But yeah, we've always been an ingredients household. You would never get like a chocolate bar in the cupboard or...

A rice What do you call those Rice crispy bar things Square bars yeah Like I would have friends Coming into school with them And I'd be like How do you just get that Where are you getting these from No I never had that But we were a Frankfurter hot dog family Or like Oh my god I was a Frankfurter person No it was Yeah it was fucked up They're so bad for you And then my daughter They're so bad Like it's literally just chemicals Yeah my So my sister Mine's my daughter Like one day a week And

It's just like If my mom is home It's like full granny mode And she'll just give her The most random shit ever Like since she's like 10 months old And I'm like for fuck's sake She'd come home With like chocolate all down her Has eaten a full chocolate bar And like three frankfurters And she's coming home Being like Banging her head off the wall And then I have to Wean her off for three days Being like Only your

Grapes and crackers and like I'm fucking home making bread and all just being like you're going to be really good, you know. And then I'm just eating crisps and smoking fags on the balcony. But no, I loved a good Frankfurter. Suck in the microwave 30 seconds. Ketchup love. So good. Oh, but yous were a proper ketchup family though as well. Oh, we were a ketchup family.

I'm sick of myself with ketchup now, though I'm a Sriracha girl now. You won't even find ketchup in my cupboards anymore. But like, yeah, that was, yeah, my sister was the worst. She would literally have spaghetti carbonara and just go,

Oh my God. All over. On carbonara. That's horrible. Like you name it. She was having ketchup over it. Whereas I was a bit more reasonable with like, you know, what was appropriate with it. She was more perverted and you were like a normal person. Yeah. Yeah. That's grand. It was, you know what? Actually, we went around to our friends, our family friends house one time and they were having ketchup on pizza. And from that day forward, our lives were very centered around ketchup. No, ketchup on pizza is really nice. I will say I did like, I did enjoy that, but I'm more like a garlic dip person now.

Yeah, I'm a hot saucer. Yeah, I like a garlic dip. So me and my brother, we both did gymnastics. So we were like every- Hey, feminine king. Yeah.

Was he the only boy in the class? No, gymnastics is a big... There was like... Really? There was a whole boy squad, yeah. What? Separate thing. Yeah, we had like different trainers. That's brilliant. Oh my God. I was in contemporary dance and there was one boy in the class and we were all like king, king, king. Yeah, there was one boy in my ballet class. I think dance is maybe a bit different, but gymnastics, the boys were like... Have you seen them? Yeah.

Oh my god, her playtime Can he do the splits? No god, not anymore, this is ages ago But like because we were like literally every day coming home, eating, going straight to gymnastics Coming home, eating, going to bed We were just like fueling ourselves with so much food Like we were eating for carbs, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, for energy like Yeah, so we would come home and have a big bowl of pasta with ketchup on it as a snack

No sauce, just ketchup. Ketchup is the sauce. Yeah, some cheese on top. And like that was my like carb loading before gymnastics. Oh my God. Yeah. So like my food was very much to keep me fueled for that. That's a good relationship though with food then.

Um, yeah, yeah, it was. And to give you energy rather than to be like, yeah, no, I think it was. And I think, but I think there's also a huge culture in gymnastics of like, you know, looking a certain way and your relay at hearts and all of that as well. So I don't think I was, I think I probably left gymnastics before it got to like where I was would, would have been an age where I would have been conscious of that. Um, I don't think those kinds of thoughts.

came into my room maybe until a bit later so I'm kind of glad I was out of that scene then but I

I mean, it's going to come into your brain anyway when you're in school, isn't it? Regardless of whether you're in gymnastics or not. I know, yeah. It was hard to escape. Yeah. The girl talk. I remember. Tumblr girl era. The Tumblr, oh my God, it nearly ruined me. No, I just got addicted to smoking. I said this in my podcast with Kevin. It wasn't like the eating habits or anything. Thank God. God bless. But it was just like, I'm going to smoke loads. Okay. Give myself cancer. At what age?

Okay. Yeah. I was just like, nobody knows me. Nobody knows how tortured I am. Maybe my friend used to.

It was like that era of Tumblr when, you know, all the black and white photos of the smoke coming out of the mouth and stuff. And then we used to like go down to this skate park. Well, it was like an abandoned skate park. So there was no skaters there. We just thought we were cool going down there taking photos at it in our like weird cross jumpers, you know, like the top, top cross jumpers. And we like didn't have any money to buy cigarettes or like didn't.

had no one to get them for us anyway and so we decided to get paper and tea leaves and make fake cigarettes with that and pretend to smoke them and sometimes they actually did smoke to be fair but yeah that was my buzz that actually is a common story got a buzz off that tea jesus it's gone straight to my head oh my god and did you like school um i did like school i was

Well, sorry, I didn't hate it, but that's a big fat lie. I have like really mixed opinions on school. I enjoyed school in that I had a good friendship group. I was like quite sporty and like in lots of different teams in that way. But I fucking hated teachers. I hated people having like

I hated being there of their, like in their times and their accord and having to do, having all these deadlines and like, I just, yeah, like loads of times my parents would drop me off and I would just get the bus back home. Were they, they had gone to work? Yeah, and they would come home and find me lying in the garden on a sunny day and I'd be like, hey. Yeah.

But like I did well in school. So like the teachers, it was never, my attendance was so bad at one point, but it was never a huge issue because I was doing well in school. Yeah. It's more if you're like falling behind and your attendance is bad, then they're like, oh shit, we need to step in here and we need to contact the parents. Yeah. But because I was all right, because I actually like sometimes

I would go home and work like it used to annoy me when they would make you stay in to study you know when you're coming up to exams and they would like make you stay in school to study and I was like this is just not the right environment for me to study so I would just go home and then yeah it was just a bit of a thing with me getting the bus home and one time my dad latched onto it and I was like no I swear I'm not coming home and then he caught me on it and then yeah

I kind of had to start wising up a little bit. Oh, God. But didn't you do mathematics or something for a short while? Yeah, I went to uni for two months to do that and then dropped out. Women in STEM. I lasted a whole two months. Yeah, women in STEM. This is women in STEM right here. For two months. We know how to work a podcast, Mike. Women in STEM. No, God, I don't know what was going on in my brain when I decided to do mathematics. I...

rocked up on the first day and was like yep this is not for me why what made you choose it i never wanted to go to uni and my school was very much like you know good grammar school wanted the numbers of everyone applying to uni and everyone getting accepted because they wanted to be able to be like 99.9 of our pupils they got accepted to red brick universities and all that shit they just want it for the statistics so

They don't actually care about what you want to do. And so if you want to opt out of applying for uni, you have to go through such a big process, like getting your parents to sign all these different things. And because you have so much time dedicated, like set aside in your timetable to applying for uni, it's like to doing all your UCAS form and like doing all the applications and your...

like is it your personal statement and all of that so for you to actually have permission to not do all that you have to go through like quite a big process so I ended up just getting a bit swept up in it all and like they kind of just convinced me like just do what like what are your good subjects and I was like maths and French so I applied for maths combined with French and then after like a month I was like wait what the fuck am I doing I don't want to study French so then I applied for straight maths and then after and then two months later I was like yeah I should have never been convinced of this

It was hellish though. And they give me a, they put me in a studio apartment. So I didn't have any flatmates. Oh, that's so lonely. Yeah. So I just arrived at like 18 on my own parents dropped me off and I just sat in my bed with no flatmates and bawled my eyes out. And from then on, like it was like the worst mental health.

period of my entire life. I just would have panic attack after panic attack. I would go to the lecture and then it would freak me out even more. And I would come home and I'd cry. And then when I finally decided, okay, I need to just drop out. It was like the biggest weight off of my shoulders ever. How did you tell your parents?

I don't remember how exactly I told them. They knew I wasn't enjoying myself. I came home once and it was a struggle for them to make me go back. Like I was crying the entire way to the airport. So yeah, I think it was a gradual thing. Like they knew I wasn't having a good time. So the reaction wasn't too bad, was it? No, the reaction wasn't bad at all. Like they were, I think they were pretty proud of me for like being able to

It's a hard thing to do. When you've dedicated the last two years of school, it's all anyone talks about is, what are you doing after school? Where are you applying for? And then when you get into somewhere, it's like, everyone's so proud of you for getting to that point. And they're telling everyone, your grandparents are like, oh my God, this is going to be amazing. Do you know what I mean? Everyone's like, it's just the center thing

focus of your life for so long and then to like take us to be like actually this isn't what I want to do it feels like the end of the world even though it's not do you know what I mean it's so minor in the grand scheme of things but at the time it feels like everything in my life has led to this point yeah and are you the oldest sibling yeah okay that's even worse yeah it's like 10 times worse because you're the first one I know so many expectations and then what did you do then for the rest of the year to try figure out what you wanted to do um so I came back

home in December and I had been really interested in makeup and my friends used to slag me off like did you have a school yearbook yeah so did you have like little profiles for each person yeah so under my profile and it had like name hobbies all that shit and like but or you would fill it in for your friends like it wasn't serious it was like a taking the piss thing yeah so my name was Emmanil Moua

like I was it was just always a thing where people would tag me off and pretend or as if I was like pretending to be a moo on Instagram oh yeah yeah and like people were all my friends would like fight over me on um nights out when we were getting ready of who whose makeup I would do and stuff and I was like do you know what this is something I really enjoy I'm just gonna see if I can do a makeup course and I tried to apply for this one that was starting in January and it was full and then last minute they had to drop out so I managed to get onto it so

So I came home and did that. But that was like one day a week. So I was working in hospitality. Oh, okay. How was that? Good. I loved hospitality. I worked in hospitality from when I was 16 till 21, 22. Yeah. Yeah. I have really fond memories of my time working in bars and stuff. I just don't think I could do it now. I think it's very much like a time in your life. But...

No, I think it was kind of like I needed that. Do you know what I mean? I needed that time away from like everything felt so serious up to that point. Yeah. And I just needed like time to just like have a bit of crack, work behind the bar and just not take life so seriously, work out what I wanted to do a little bit more. Like I just kind of felt like for the first time in my life I was doing something I wanted to do. I wasn't like...

doing it because everyone else around me was pushing me into, or my skull was making me do certain things, you know what I mean? And how did you end up in your course in Leeds then? So through, when I was working as a makeup artist, so eventually I did go full time with makeup and I was working on shoots and stuff and I kind of like discovered the whole fashion marketing side of things, which I didn't even know really existed before.

And yeah, I just kind of decided from there that I was going to do that. But I had applied for the course that I ended up doing two years prior to going. And then I decided to go to Australia. So I postponed it for ages. Wait, you went to Australia? Yeah, I feel like I've lived a million different lives. I did a year in Australia. I know that. Australia had me at one point. Oh my God, we did lose you.

Where in Australia were you? I did seven months in Melbourne and then I did my farm work up in the north and then I did a couple months in Sydney. And then you threw in the towel? Threw in the towel and did a little bit of traveling on the way back through Southeast Asia. Got home by Christmas. COVID started in March.

No. But I was quite good. I got all the traveling done before COVID started. Yeah, you got the traveling done, but then you couldn't go back to... You did the farm work basically then for no reason. Well, so I can still... I can use that second year if I want to. Oh, okay. So I still can. And I kind of always thought... I was like, I'll go home, I'll go to uni, and then I'll go back out. But now that I've...

like being there done that got the t-shirt kind of vibe I'm like I don't know if it's necessary like I would I don't know part of me thinks I would like to but then I'm like you know I think if I was to do a year somewhere I'd want to do like in Europe maybe in I don't know Lisbon or somewhere a bit more interesting than Australia yeah and you're not interested in London no I hate it okay

That's fair enough. Like myself, I come for one day and I'm like, wait, I actually do think I kind of like it. And then by the time I'm like, get me home. Get me home. No, I like, I really love my time in London. Anytime I come here, I have such a lovely time, but I have such a lovely time because I know I'm going home after it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good for a holiday. Yeah, it's great for a holiday. And I'm so lucky that I can like stay at my sister's house and...

come over and do work bits and stuff. I do really love it, but I couldn't live here. I would literally... I'd need to go home at the end of the day and lie in a sensory deprivation tank for...

12 hours they need more nature it's like at least one hiking trail yeah that's gonna be fine or like access to the sea would be brilliant yeah access to the sea would be lovely i just get very overstimulated here and i don't think i could keep up with the pace of life even just like little things like your little routines that you have back home i think are so much harder to keep here but maybe that's because i don't live here

So I don't have those routines here Yeah But also like friends And stuff are so spread out Yeah I feel like the majority Of my time was on the tube Yeah And that's like Over stimulation city Oh it's so bad It's really bad The central line like I feel like I spend The entire time I'm in London Just sweating And you're sweating

And just apologising to people For how much I'm sweating I always I smell ten times worse Every time I'm in London Yeah I really do Because when you're constantly Like going on and off the tubes And then You're like It'll be hot one second And cold the next And then you're If you're going in and out of shops And stuff And they're warm And you're just like No it's so bad I had a podcast recording this morning And I was gonna come straight to this And I was like Nah I need to go Fresh enough Wash my face And change my jambon Yeah

Are you not scared from the tampon scare thing? The tampon medals? Oh, I don't use them because of that. Yeah, I moved on to bamboo pads. Okay. I'm not a pads girl either. Like really, it just makes me feel like I'm wearing a nappy. I feel like I'm wearing nappy for our pads. But I didn't have any other choice. I was actually getting freaked out. I was getting anxious about having tampons in. But it's just that brand. Yeah.

Or it's just that brand, the big brand that own a few of them. Like if you get like the, what's the ones I use? NatraCare, they're all organic. You can use those tampons fine. Or do you ever use period underwear? Yeah, that doesn't work on me. It gives me the rush. Because it like keeps them, they're not breathable enough because it's supposed to keep in the moisture. They're not breathable. So I literally have to change them every few hours anyway. Okay. So they don't work. I remember I was like,

I got thrush and I was like, I don't know if it was the period underwear or not. And then I tried it again the next month and I was like, oh, it's definitely the period underwear. Okay. I was like, oh my God, this is torture. Try not to carry tampons. They're really good. I know I do. Yeah, I know. Okay. I've tried them before. I think it's an Irish brand, but they're like B Corp and all. No, they're really, I love them. Not spawn. Well, kind of spawn. Kind of spawn, but not really spawn. Emma spawn, not my spawn. How do you think your, your friendships have evolved from like childhood into your adulthood? Yeah.

Annie was talking about how she missed being with your friends every single day in school. And there was like, because it was less responsibilities, it was less stress, like hanging out and stuff. But with your childhood friends, you couldn't like talk about things or go to support because no one had the skills to obviously, you know, comfort each other.

Yeah, I do really miss having that where you don't have to really make an effort with friends because you are just with them. It changes so much when you're an adult and everyone has their own shit going on. Also, living in Ireland, everyone moves anyway, so half of my friends don't even...

at home and then you make new friends. It's like... I don't know. I was actually talking about this recently where I feel like I'm always deciding between... Like, you're always deciding between community or routine. And... Yeah. Because...

Like in order to keep like mentally stable and not go insane, you have to have your routines built into your life, you know? But I think that was actually just a thing that's pushed by capitalism to keep us working. Cause I don't, I think I really struggle when I don't have routine though. Really? Yeah. Cause the spontaneity, I feel like it was what's,

Good about my life But maybe that's just Because it works With the type of person That I am Yeah Like if it's Because I work Very much like By the weather If it's sunny I'm going to go to the beach With my daughter Yeah Like I'm not going To stay inside And do our normal routine And like painting And reading or whatever And then if it's wet And windy Yeah

I'll do something different. But it's like push so much in parenting as well. The kids need a routine. Now, fair enough with the sleeping because like... Oh, sleep routine. Sleep routine is fair enough. But like in general routine, I'd only kind of do just like the nighttime routine, but not day to day because it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. No, I know. But I just feel like I sometimes prioritize routine way too much because I know...

what can happen to me if I don't. But I'm really trying to work out how to

involve friendships and socializing and community more into my routines if that makes sense yeah so like i i guess i i've one little way i've like started doing it is when i book all my classes at the start of the week then i tell my friends that also do that i tell them everything that i'm booked into and see like are they able to do anything after any of those days and want to come with type of thing that's a great yeah that's yeah that's yeah that's a good idea but i

now that I live on my own I do like really miss that kind of like passive time spent with people socialising like when I lived in houses at uni with friends and like just coming in from like a long day and like sitting down on the sofa and like debriefing with people or like watching a movie together and like having to catch up

Or even in the morning, just like bumping into someone when you're making breakfast and then like you happen to have a spare 20 minutes and you go grab a coffee together. Do you know what I mean? Like I do really miss that. I feel like at the moment, everything feels like it has to be so planned out and like, okay, I'm going to, you know, two weeks in advance. Are you free on this day? Yeah. Let's get coffee then. Let's do this. But then we're both making an effort to do this. And then when we're together, we're going to end up spending four hours together. And then I come home feeling drained and I'm like, am I a sociable person? I don't know.

Do I even like them? Do I even like myself? I don't know. I find adult friendships kind of hard to navigate. Like I'm not a high maintenance friend, but there's definitely such a shift in the dynamic. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's really hard. I find it really hard in adulthood with friendships, especially since I've had a baby because no one...

No one can understand how my times can slot in. It's like, if you want to hang out with me, we have to get a coffee takeaway and go to the playground with my daughter. Otherwise it's like, and then if I go on a night out, I can only kind of go for two drinks and go home. I don't want to be hung over the next day looking after my daughter. No, exactly. So it has kind of, and then the stuff that I'm dealing with is different to all my friends. Yeah. Because I'm like, oh geez, she's having loads of tantrums these days. My friends are like, I think I need to stop taking Coke. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

No, I love it. I remember when I was postpartum and I was actually bedridden. Like I couldn't leave the house at all and I wasn't seeing anyone. I was like begging my friends to come over and give me the tea. Like I was just like, tell me everything that's going on in your life. Like I want to know. And I was there like holding the baby breast and being like, yeah, lapping it up. And I was like, and then what happened?

happened and then what happened you know but then now I'm just like I just want to relax and yeah just have a soft chill yeah and I'm I'm low maintenance as well I can literally not talk to someone for three three months and then we see each other I'm like yeah I love you so much I'm see I'm low maintenance but then at the same time I hate when there's like when you really feel like there's no effort on someone's part do you know what I mean

Like as low maintenance as I am and as much as I really don't expect much in friendships and I'm very much like we'll pick up where we left off, even if that was six months ago. That really doesn't bother me. I do not need to have constant catch ups and need to know your whereabouts by phone all the time. But like, I don't know. Sometimes you have friendships when you move into adulthood and you're just like,

You know what? This actually isn't working for me anymore. I just feel like I'm really, it's very one-sided. Yeah. I've had one friendship like that before. You literally ghosted me. I haven't. I was like, I'm coming to London, if you want to say. All my friends live in London. I'm coming to London on this date. And he was like, yeah, I'll book it off work. I texted him the day before. Hey, looking forward to tomorrow. And then it was a real like, curt, you know, sort of colleague email. Hello, I'm not able to make it anymore. And then that was our last message. What?

I texted something else like replying to a story or something and I have not spoken to him since. Oh my God. And I still haven't processed it because I haven't got any closure. I'm just like, what the fuck? But I'm not going to chase up and be like, hello, where'd you... And he was like literally my longest friend, like friends for like eight years or something. And you never found out like through anyone else? No. That's bizarre. And I would talk to my other friends about it and they'd be like, oh, but you know him, he's just a bit weird. And I'm like...

But do you not find that people excuse people's behavior so much being like, oh, but that's just them. That's just their personality. And you're like, I don't think that makes it okay. Ignoring me for months on end. I didn't know that was like a personality trait. Do you know what I mean? Fucking hell. And like, I would be confrontational in a way where if I saw him, I'd be like, that upset me. And I would say it, but I hate grudges. Yeah. And I don't like...

You know what I mean? I always want to, even with my exes, I'm like, can we please be friends? I don't want to not say hello to each other if we pass each other in the street. And it like really upsets me if they don't want that. You know, I just don't like the beef. I don't like unintentional beef, but I will. I think it requires more energy than necessary to harbor that much hatred or beef. It's horrible. And like Ireland's so small as well. It's like we're going to bump into each other. Yeah, exactly. But anyway. But anyway. We're done.

Okay, well, yeah, I think that's all we have time for, to be honest. Thanks so much, Emma. Thanks for having me. Here for the crack and growing up with Keelan Moncrief and Emma Neal. Growing up for the crack. You know, the average hospital visit can cost you around $12,000. So do you have that kind of extra money lying around if you get sick? Me either. That's why health insurance is so important. Today, you can get health insurance plans for a couple of dollars a day.

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