Ep 146: Because Business Pivots
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Hi, I'm Joanne Bull and I am obsessed with all things podcasting and creating an unapologetically big revenue business with it. From podcast guesting to podcast hosting and everything in between, we're going to dive into it all and show you step by awesome step how to build a big business.

how using a podcast can and will grow your business. So grab a glass of wine and pop your headphones on because girlfriend happy hour has begun here on The B Word.

Alright guys, oh my gosh, we are finally here in person together. Like how do y'all feel about that? It's so fun. I'm so excited to be here. I mean normally we only see each other on Zoom, so I did not realize that Allie is as tall as she is. So tall. And I did not realize that Jill is very, not quite as tall. I get literally every time I meet someone off the internet, that's what they say. And I like to wear like platforms, like chunky shoes. You just kill us. You make short girls like me like, what? Come on.

All right, so I wanted to have a conversation with the three of us today about evolutions because I know all of us have. We started our business in one area and we made it successful. And then at some point, some of us very recently, Allie, we had to shift and pivot. And what does that look like and how do we carry our audiences with us? And that limiting belief, itty bitty shitty committee in the back of your head that tells you you can't or shouldn't do it. Yeah.

Allie, if you want to start off, because you're really in the middle of it. I'm in the middle of it right now. And this is probably like my third or fourth...

pivot, but this is the biggest one and the heaviest one. And I think just audience size and the size of the pivot is like huge. So I have built a multimillion dollar business on a course model. So I started out with one course and I believe you should go deep in your business before you go wide. So I really went deep on that course. I sold it and sold it and sold it and was so happy with it. It

Like made my first million and a half on just that one course. And then I just started having so many ideas. Like I couldn't, I couldn't stop. And so I became like, I'm naturally a content creating machine.

And I was doing that with paid content and courses. And I was, I had course after course, I ended up with over 20 courses and this like, like framework that I created. And I mean, it just, everything grew so much bigger than I ever thought it would. And so a couple of years ago, I got to a point where I was just like, this isn't working. There's too many courses. I don't like

Like, I like to be live in my business and sell things live and talk about things live. There's too many to talk about as often as I would like to. None of them can be combined. It'll be too overwhelming for the user. I just was not happy with it. There was separated communities for each course, so I felt like my community was very segmented and I didn't like that.

But I was afraid of making the change and I was afraid to mess with like what was making me my money and mess with what was making people happy. So then I ignored it and just kept going and slowly everything started to decrease. And I'm really like – I really believe in the energetics behind things. Like I didn't want to be doing that anymore and it started to show up. And then people could feel it and like it's almost like the results were matching how I was feeling. Yeah.

And then also on a more strategy level, I do believe that for certain niches, courses are incredible. But for general, especially like what I do with like more life coaching and like feeling, talking people through things, people are just done buying courses and they're not using them like they used to. They're not completing them. And my job is to help them get success. So they're not completing them. They're getting overwhelmed by them. Something needed to change. And so I finally...

decided to pivot to the collective, which is more of a membership model where everyone can just get access to me and my energy and what I'm saying all the time for like a really low cost. So this idea that you're getting everything for a low price is really appealing. And I finally just did the shift. I literally launched it like two days ago. So I love one of the things that made me absolutely fall in love with you. The first time we ever met was your whole

concept of if it doesn't feel right, I'm just not going to do it. And so, you know, watching you kind of evolve over the years, I know for me, it kind of helps go, okay, I can pivot. I can do this because it doesn't, I can't, I swear to God, I kept hearing you in the back of my head. Like Joanne, if it doesn't feel right, don't do it. There's a reason it doesn't feel right. Yeah. And it's not the people that are going to say something about it negative. Like it's not their business.

If they don't like the way you're doing it, then they can go and stay up all night and learn how to do this and figure it out and build an empire. And they can run it however they want. Yeah. But it's mine. So if I want to burn the castle down and build a new one, I'm going to. Oh, I think you heard this quote recently, right? Like burn the fucking boats down. Yeah. And I told Jill the other day, I was like, you know, I want to burn the fucking boats down. Like I'm going to build this business to where I don't have a way out unless I make it a success. And that was a whole new concept for me.

I literally put that sentence in my promo on launch day. Like everyone, I was like explaining like this is what I built and it was going really well, but this is how I was feeling and this is what I was seeing and what I was noticing. And I literally put like, so I burned the fucking boats and now here's this new concept.

And I think when you're not doing what you need to be doing, it's soul crushing. I don't know about you guys. For me, it is soul crushing when every day you're like, I'm doing what I think I should be doing, but not what I want to be doing. I don't want to be here. You show up different. I noticed that it was shutting down my creativity. It was shutting down the intuitive hits that I get when I'm coaching people. I was blocked off from my flow. Yeah. Yeah.

Jill, you may recently made a decision to move. Yeah. Like let's talk about pivot. You're going to go across the country with your business, right? And like on your own. So how, like what kind of limiting fears do you have around that? Yeah. You know, there's a really big decision in my business. And part of the reason why I'm actually making the move and making the transition is to get around the energetics, new people, new community, all of those things. And I think, you know, it's, it's very much, like I said, like you can only get so

so far in one place. And, you know, I took a solo trip to Arizona. I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the people. I fell in love with the community. And I knew that I wanted to get my business to a certain level. I wanted to get my revenue to a certain level. I wanted to get myself as a human to a certain level. And I needed to move to a new place to do that. And, you know, when I came back and I told my community this, I got lots of people that rolled their eyes.

You can't do that. What are you doing? Your family's here. Like all these things. And it's really, as Allie said, it's like I had to make the decision for me. I had to make the decision of where I was going to go. And I had a lot of naysayers, a lot of haters. But it was like I knew where I needed to go for that information.

of course there's fears, there's limiting beliefs. There's, you know, what if I get out there and I hate it and all the things, but it's like, you're never going to know what's possible if you don't rip off the bandaid and just go. And, you know, I have a movement right now, which is called Be Her Now. You know, I'm so grateful for it. And it's literally sparked from that trip in Arizona. It's like, if you want something, go be her now, go do it now and see the results that will flourish after that. So what are you seeing right now?

Yeah, so right now I'm- How's it showing up in your life? Yeah, so I mean, I'm obviously having a little bit of fear as I'm starting to go, but I'm also so excited of what's on the other side. I've also seen giving, by me going, I've literally given my audience permission to do things. I've even had women just book solo trips.

or go away for the night on their own or have difficult conversations with their partners or their business partner, whoever it is. So by me going first, I've also given my audience permission to do a lot of those things, which has felt so good. When I was in Arizona doing my solo trip, I mean, I had moms reaching out to me that were like, I just

booked a night away by myself. I mean, I know I can't move across the country for six months or six weeks or whatever, but like you've given me that permission to go and do it. And like, thank you so much. So, you know, I'm so grateful that me taking these scary leaps is allowing my audience to kind of follow along on the journey. And that's our job. Our

Like, we're examples of what can be. So if we stay small and stay in the bubble, then we're not doing our jobs. We're not doing why we're here. And I think it's so crazy. Like, you can always move back. You can always move back. Yeah, yeah. It's safe to, like, just go try. But we're about to be besties because you live there. Obviously. So you're not going anywhere. You can join us. Can you get a third bed?

third bedroom for when I visit? You can come out. Obviously, come out. Yes. But like, it's just so funny to me that it's like viewed as a mistake. If you, which like, if it is a mistake, like we just talked about this, like, okay, well, it's my mistake. It's my lesson. Mm-hmm.

Like back off. Let me have this. Yeah. And I think we talked about this earlier today. It's like really bringing your audience along on the journey, right? Whatever your mistakes are, whatever your hardships are, whatever your vulnerability is, whatever you're going through, that's part of the evolution. You know, I don't just come on my social media and say like,

Hey, I'm moving or Hey, I'm going through this health crisis or Hey, I'm going through whatever. It's like, I've brought them along on the journey the whole way. So they've seen me evolve. They've seen me expand. And that's, what's been, I think really beautiful about the transitions that I've made in my business and in my personal life. Yeah. I know I've gone from the real estate world to working with female entrepreneurs now in a niching down with female entrepreneurs who use a podcast to market their business. And I can tell you, because I did that over about a year and a half span, um,

I got a lot of negative feedback. You know, like people are like, you're so all over the place. You don't know what you're doing. You can't decide. And I'm like, you guys don't know that really this was a six-year process that I finally stepped out and did it. And y'all just watch the evolutions of it. You know, but I know it's the naysayers and it's the ones who don't get it that...

give you the most shit about it. And I'm like, well, then don't come. I was about to say also there, I guarantee you if we could pinpoint and call and speak to each person that was saying something in some way, shape or form, they're all over the place. They don't think they can do it. They feel like a mess. They don't know who they are, what they're doing. And they're projecting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I finally did kind of come to that conclusion in my head. I'm like, oh, you have an issue with what I'm doing because you're afraid of what you're doing and that's what it looks like. You're judging me because you're afraid someone else is judging you. Yeah, their perception of what you're doing is based off their perception of themselves. So if they see something that's a familiar flaw, they're going to attack it because it makes them feel like they're not that. Right. But it's also so crazy to me because it's like, who cares if I am? I'm allowed to be all over the place. Yeah.

So if I act like I have it all together, then they're like, she's too fake. Yeah. But if I'm vulnerable and open, then she's a mess. Mm-hmm.

You can't ever please everybody. So just stop. So again, we loop back to that. You got to do what feels good. Do your thing. I remember when I came back from my first mastermind that I was in this year and, you know, I had come back and I had been around, you know, the most incredible humans, you know, seven and eight figure entrepreneurs. And I had come back and my audience really kind of shifted on me. My audience almost got like ugly on me for a little bit. And if, you know, a lot of them may be listening to this podcast right now.

And instantly they were like, oh, Jillian's changed. She's evolved. She's in this new mastermind. Like we're not, she's not part of our community anymore. And I remember saying to myself, I did a whole podcast episode on this. I was like, you should want me to be different. If you've been following me for a year or six months or six weeks or even six days, and I have not had growth or

or evolution, or I have not changed. I am not the right person for you to be following. You want to be following and linking arms in part of communities that people are growing and expanding in on a rocket ship to whatever it is. So it's like be around people that are growing and expand. And if it's, if it's triggering you, like you said, it's probably a mirror back on them for a reason why they're not having those same evolutions in their life. Yeah. But it's so hard to internalize that when it's in your face. Yeah. Like,

We can know that all day long, but being faced with it is a different situation. When it comes at you in a random comment in the middle of the day, you have to kind of like pause. And that's why I like, I mean, just a little business tip. I don't think that we should be responding to any negative comment the same day we get it, or at least in the same time.

part of the day. Same. Yeah. I even tell my kids do not respond. If your friends are, you know, posting stuff that you don't like about you or they're sending you a text message, you put your phone down, you put it on, do not disturb. You have to walk away from it. And telling my 15 year old that is like telling him he's grounded for a month and a half. But I'm like, seriously, just don't give it energy. You're going to react wrong. And then it's going to continue the conversation instead of just, if you let it go, it will die out. What you focus on grows.

Yeah. Yeah. Be careful what you put your focus on. Yep. All right. So you've got the membership going. I just started a membership and you just started a digital course. Yep. And I have a membership. Yep. Holy crap. Yay. All right. So you're letting go of a digital course as Jill is starting one up. What's your advice for her? So.

So I still have a few of my core courses that you can, cause they're so new and the, the format, the content that's in there, it makes sense to have a course. They're like upsells in the collective. Like if they are new to me and they don't have them already, they can still like, Oh, I really want to deep dive into this. So I'm going to go ahead and get it.

But, um, yeah, all the other ones, I just didn't want to maintain them. I shut down all the communities that were connected with them. My biggest advice is don't ever, like I never sold my community as a part of the course. I said, we do this also. Like at this point, I always said at this point in time, we're doing this and it's really fun in there, but you're buying the curriculum. And then when I was ready, I was like, okay, we're done with the community. So sell the knowledge and then add the community if you feel like it. Yeah. And then you can shut it down if you don't feel like it anymore. Yeah.

I love it. But yeah, courses are still amazing. I just think like my entire business was course model and there were so many and I had to realize that when I was starting this, I was like one of the people to like almost like the group of pioneers. Like people thought I was scamming them. There was no courses.

And it was really hard to market and to get them to buy. Now it's like, oh, of course she has a course. And that's fine. Just the marketing shifts. But it's just different. And I also didn't know that I was going to end up teaching on all these different, that was not who I was then. Yeah. I mean, we're a decade later almost. Yeah. So of course it's changed. Yeah. So yeah. Like for me, my business has always been very heavy one-on-one coaching, high ticket one-on-one coaching. And then it comes to a point, you know, two and a half, three years later where that is completely burned me out.

you know, 20, 30 one-on-one coaching clients. So now it's like, how do I still take care of those clients and shift them? So that's why I'm bringing on a course model. And it's always the same questions, same problems. So you can collect them. It's like, I think courses are a great option. I just no longer wanted that to be the only thing I did. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Do you think you'll miss it?

No, because I still have now in the Haven and those are my favorite. And then anytime I want to create a course, I can put that in the collective. Oh, true, true, true, true. It's going to be very content heavy. Like I cannot stop creating. I love showing up live. I love like communicating with my people and I love that they're not going to be separated anymore. So I'm like really, really excited. This feels like it fits my natural flow as a leader.

And I love that you're allowing yourself to go there right now. Yeah. You know, like this is who I am right now. So I'm just going to walk full fledged into that because I know for me, I know that you and I have talked about this as well, Jill, that's not easy. No, no, it

It is not, you know, like there's a lot of that. Am I doing the right thing? Am I about to lose my income? I know I'm going to take a revenue dip. I'm gonna take a podcast download, listen, dip. Like as we shift, are we pissing people off or are we actually picking up our new audience? Or are we meeting them where they need to be or where we think they need to be, but we're wrong. Like all of that goes through our heads, right? It's terrifying. Yeah.

It's terrifying. And for me, one of the biggest things that's helped me navigate this and actually make the decision is like when people get pissed off, cause they will, I am truly, I can truly come from a place of gratitude that they're getting angry because those are the people that I have felt like they are burdening me. I'm not wanting to attract that person. You are reflective of the old me, like a seven versions of Allie ago, expired version of me. Like it's time to

there's a new wave of women that I feel drawn to and that's who I want. And they're the ones that are in the membership posting, introducing themselves, like messaging me. I have been literally craving this. Thank you. Those are the people that I'm for. And it's, it's silly to me that the people that are upset think that it's all for that. Like it's not supposed to be for you and that's okay.

Talk about that earlier, like with the entitlement energy. Yeah. Like they're entitled, like they have done this for so long with you and they think that like you shouldn't evolve because they've been part of this for so long. I'm almost like entitled that you stay with them or creating courses or masterminds or whatever it is. And it's like, you get to evolve, you get to go to this next level and you can either come with me or you can't, but you're not, I'm not entitled to stay here with you. It's setting an energetic boundary. Like I'm going to intentionally do this because it feels right to me and I'm intentionally

pissing you off because that is my boundary. Like I, you don't run my business. I do like they, I feel like we need to train our audiences how to treat us and they do regularly need to be reminded where they're supposed to be. I love that. Cause we let them in so much that then they feel as we want them to, that we have a relationship with them. And sometimes they forget that we don't actually.

You don't know me. They don't actually have the right to dictate anything like my husband might, you know, because we're going to make decisions together. But like, you don't slow your roll, girl. Yeah. Don't I know? Yeah, we're good. Like I have to constantly remind them, you don't know me. You follow me. Right. That's a great line because I had that recently even happened with one of my teammates. We had had a conversation. It was like, you know, they're not your friends. They're just your followers.

And they think that they're in your life and they're part of everything that you're doing. And they think that you're friends and they can leave all these comments for you. They think it's going to hurt you. But like at the end of the day, like they are your followers. Yes. And they only know a piece of what's going on in your life. And if they want to have control over that or like make you feel bad or insert authority over it, then that is not, that's a toxic behavior. That's not welcome here. It's toxic friendship. Yeah. Yeah.

All right, so let's talk about our actual friends for a minute, right? Because I know as we've all evolved that whole, you are the circle of five that you hang out with. I will tell you when I had the wrong circle, I did not understand that saying. I was looking around, I'm like, well, if these are the five, we are screwed. And I don't want to tell you all that, but like, we're all screwed. And then suddenly it's like I stepped into that new zone of myself and started opening my eyes to who I needed to be around and didn't think I could. And yet they showed up anyway. Mm-hmm.

Yes. You know, but then you have to remember the ones that were there and like how you gracefully bring them with you if you're willing. And sometimes you're not. Yeah. That's what's awkward. Right? Yeah. That's the awkward conversation right there. One time I had a friend...

that I had really known a really, really long time. And I really loved her and cared for her, but we just had nothing in common. I felt very drained when I was around her and it seemed like she did too. But she coming from like a very like wounded feminine place was trying to grab onto the relationship and not, and I was okay with letting it go. It had served its purpose. I knew like I had poured into her. She was a big part of my childhood, big part of my early adult life. And

I was so grateful for her, and I know she was for me as well, but it was just time to go. And she actually had invited me to lunch and had a conversation about how she feels like we're losing our friendship and she wants to not, and I had to say... I was like... And I said all the things I just said. Like, I just feel like it's okay to grow apart sometimes. Like, it's okay. And she was really hurt and eventually, like, understood. But I felt... I felt really bad. I felt like the mean one. But I really, like...

I have four kids. I have technically two businesses. Like I'm not playing small. I'm going big. Like what I've done is nothing compared to what I will do. And that is my mission. That's why I'm here. It's not selfish. It's appropriate. It's mandatory that I, if I'm feeling drained, like to not to tell you that I love you enough to tell you that this is

I just feel like we're so different and that's okay. I don't have to tell her everything. Like, but to be honest, that's a real friend. And so I did. And it's okay. Like we text her on our birthdays and update on our kids now that she has kids and things like that. But yeah,

I think you just have to be a really ruthless editor of who you allow to borrow your energy. Yeah, I had the same best friend for almost 38 years. And once I became an entrepreneur, we really started to kind of shift our lives differently, right? She was still in the corporate space. I was an entrepreneur. I was going to a lot of things. She didn't really understand it. She was very judgy. Like, who are all these new people? What are you doing? You're on your Instagram stories. And she just didn't get it. And I really felt like every time we were together, I was always justifying what I was doing. Like, let me try to sell you what I'm doing. Like,

oh, it's not silly. Like I'm a coach and I have a podcast, right? And I always left feeling like bad about myself. Like she doesn't get it. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to like make her understand what I'm doing. It's exactly what Allie just said. I had to have the conversation of like,

I feel like this friendship is draining me. And like the fun that we used to have is just really not there anymore. And it's the same thing. We text now on our birthdays, we text on the holidays and she was my best friend for 38 years. And she is a huge part of my life. She's just not a huge part of my life anymore. And that's okay because you evolve and you grow. And she wouldn't even be able to support me right now in the things that I have going on, whether it's business, life, health relationships. And that's okay because she fit a

a point in my life that I needed, but she's not even the evolved version of a friend that I need for things I'm going through in my life right now. And that's okay. It's totally okay. I feel like being a, a evolving woman means having a lot of funerals for the way things used to be. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like you have seasons in your life.

And some people are meant to be in all of your seasons and some people are meant to come in and out of your seasons. And then some people are meant to be there only for the season. Yeah. And you know, when it's time for you to hit the next season, when you either don't want to return their phone calls for whatever reason, and you make up excuses in your head or you leave that lunch date,

Kind of feeling drained. I need a nap. Yeah. Or like you discover that, you know, I used to go out for cocktails with you and we'd spend six hours, you know, by accident. And now it's like in six minutes, I'm ready to pay the bill and go. Yeah.

You know, and that's kind of like your internal signal that like maybe the season is ending. And then how do you, you know, like gracefully exiting out of that season? Because sometimes then it turns into a storm, a shit storm. And sometimes it's like, okay, they're feeling it too. I think a good segue into this too is I think a lot of people hold on to friendships because they don't have their next set of friendships, right?

Right. So I know for me, I held on to these like high school friendships, these people, these friendships that weren't really like helping me because I wasn't in those bigger, bigger rooms yet. Or I would see like friendships like you two have or friendships that these two have. And I was like, well, I don't have those yet. So I'm going to stay here where it's like safe.

And sometimes like you need to cut those off to open space for those next ones. Because if you're not in these friendships over here that are draining you and going on coffee dates or on phone calls, then you will have time to expand and have those other things. So I think that's a, that's a big thing too. It's like, it's okay to get rid of them and know that the right ones will come in. So in EFT, there's this,

kind of like idea that you're taught where like you are touching on the energetic hotspots on your body where emotion is stored and you have to clear out the negative, like let it out of your throat and like move it through your body so it's out and then you can reaffirm positive emotions that you want to feel but you cannot, it's like impossible to tap positive on an issue that's bothering you before you remove the negative. And it's like there's another...

idea of this, this whole idea in feng shui with your home and your space. Like it's,

it's everything is energy you have to move it out in order to move the new in and so of course it makes sense that if you're still giving your time and attention and energy to somebody that you're just afraid to let go of there's not space for the new to come in like we have to we only have so much space with everything so you have to move out the old and I think it's just the way that we treat people as we're doing that and the way that we communicate but we cannot control their response absolutely

I had to let go of some members of my team at one point, speaking of energy. Because naturally speaking, they just lean toward the Eeyore side of things, and I'm

I'm not always right. Like, and I'm not always the most happy go lucky person, but when I was around them, I, all the creativity was gone. Like I leaned in toward their Eorness and I was like, no, I love you so much, but I can't even have you working for me anymore. And it's not that you did anything wrong in what you're doing for me, except I,

By nature, you're an Eeyore person and I can't be around you because that drags me down and I've got to be surrounded by people who are always going to lift me up so that I can do what I need to do. That is not talked about enough in entrepreneurship. And on the other side of that, I had the same thing where like I won't take up time with all the specifics, but I just wasn't happy. I wasn't able to be myself. I felt edited.

And I grew up edited. So that's a big trigger for me. So I was drained. I resented my business. I was not creative. I was very unhappy and I did not, I didn't want to hurt feelings. I loved these girls. I had worked with them for four or five years and I did not want to fire anybody. I didn't know what they would do. And I just suppressed, suppress, suppress. Like I was always taught and it imploded. They hate me now. It, it, I messed up.

They will not speak to me like it just imploded because I needed to have a conversation like six months to a year prior. And I didn't, that's a bad leader. That's my mistake. I own it and I'm better now, but you, that is not talked about enough. It's like just letting someone go because it's not right. They're not in the right place.

For them, I needed to let them go. They weren't in the right place. Not just, oh, I don't like it. No, for you, it's wrong. Right. So yeah, that is, you need to do an episode on that. We just gave you some homework. Yes. I love it. It is just not, it's seriously like, it's not talked about enough. You're working very closely. Those people are in your energy and they're, that means they're fucking with your money and your purpose. And I'd

didn't want to do it. But then you feel guilty because you're messing up with their finances and their purpose. And I care. And I, oh my gosh. But I love you enough to say. I knew that. Yeah. I love them. I still adore them, but it imploded because of my poor leadership. So yeah, it's just one of those things that people don't talk about. That's dirty behind the scenes. Yeah. It's one of those things, like I wish they had a real manuscript for how to be a boss, but there's not one. Right. Or they're written by men and they don't really apply to like the way we

You mean like don't make a hiring or firing decision when you're on your period? Yeah. Yeah. I'll wait till we're in luteal. I can't stop laughing.

Oh my God, this is awesome. Ladies, thank you so much for being here today. I know our audience is going to be probably cracking up over that last statement as much as I love it. Thank you so much for having us. This was such a great time. I mean, it was great to be in person. Great to meet you in real life. Obviously great to see you in real life. This is a great event. Thank you so much for having us. You're welcome. All right. Bye guys.

You just finished another episode of the B-Word Podcast. Cheers to you. If I were with you, I would literally pop a big old bottle of Prosecco and pour you a glass. Since I'm not, why don't you do the next best thing and share this episode with one of your besties? Because we all know you've got that one girlfriend that needs to hear it. Thanks, friend.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before you go really fast, would you please take a second and go and leave me a review here on the B-Word podcast? It really does make a world of difference to how we show up for new people. And to give you a little thank you, because my mama always taught me that you send a thank you note or something in return for a gift.

We have got a free gift that we are changing every single month here on The B Word. So head on over once you've given your review, grab a screenshot of it, and then go to thebwordpodcast.com forward slash review. Upload it for me and I will send you a free gift immediately. Thanks in advance.