ARMED ROBBERY at 15 Years Old | Jesse Lovic
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Jesse Lovick, welcome to Locked In, man. It's great to have you. You just drove, you know, a few hours from Pittsburgh to get out here. We met through email. You hit me up for the first time, a complete random stranger, and I was like, hey, I'd love to come on your show. And this is the first time you're ever telling your story to an audience and you have an insane story and, you know, we're looking forward to hearing about it.

What was your life like growing up? Like what kind of family do you come from? Lower class. I would say definitely lower class poverty. It's, it's the ghetto. And what do your parents do for work? So my stepdad was a jitney driver. Um, he owned a concession stand. Well, owned and ran the concession stand that didn't work out. He, he had a bar. Um,

As well, there was a lot of problems between him and my mom to where, you know, he was out cheating on her and doing things that he shouldn't have been doing. He was so focused on that to where, like, he wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing. But there was very, a lot of verbal issues.

arguments there to where like yelling and screaming and like some sometimes could get, you know, a little bit physical, not not like real physical. But I remember sitting at the top of the steps with my sisters with the phone and my mom telling me, you know, whenever I tell you to call the cops, I want you to call the cops, you know.

You know, so it was kind of like that, that happened a lot. And that's gotta be traumatic for a kid like you. And how old are you? Like 10 years old at the time? Like nine, eight, nine years old at the time. How many siblings do you have? Uh, there's six of us. And you're youngest, oldest, middle. I'm the middle child. Yeah. Did you, were you guys close growing up? Uh, yeah, we were, we were, we, we were pretty close. Um, could have been closer. Uh,

But, you know, we just didn't have that, like, togetherness. It's something that my mom always wanted. And, you know, she always wanted the big dining room table that we all could sit around. But, you know, we didn't really have sit-down dinners or anything like that because everything was so busy. But, yeah, there was a lot of us. So there's actually...

So my two oldest brothers, they got the same dad. Me and my sister, we got the same dad. And then my youngest brother and sister, they got the same dad. And that was my stepdad. And you guys are all living in this one house together? Yeah, we're all living in a house. Is it like a really small house? I wouldn't say that it was a small house, but it wasn't like a big house. But it was like big enough for all of us. I remember, you know, there was a time to where there was four of us in the one room to where with two beds. So...

So that was kind of like, I guess, like kind of different in a sense. You know, I remember sharing a mattress. And do you think that was normal compared to what other kids were doing or were you teased for that? What was like the dynamic with your friends? No, so that didn't even really like come out to where like shared or anything like that. But like living situation was, I feel like a lot of my friends, they were living the same way. Yeah.

Coming from these broken homes, like I said, I was living with my stepdad. My dad was in and out of jail a lot, and he wasn't really there. And I'm sure that he wanted to be there, you know what I mean? But he had his own problems going on. Let me back up a little bit. So he actually was there for a little bit until we were about maybe eight, nine years old. And then he kind of just stopped coming to get us.

And I guess I don't know if he was in jail or, you know, he was into drugs or whatever he was into. Um,

Yeah, he just stopped. Did that motivate you to want to do more with your life? Or did you kind of want to like follow down his footsteps in that sense? At the time, I was so young to where I needed guidance. And I didn't have the guidance. You know, a lot of us in that neighborhood did not have the guidance. So do you think not having the guidance led you to start hanging out with bad people, bad friends and doing things you maybe shouldn't have been doing? Yeah, 100%. Because whenever you're young like that, there should be

some kind of father figure there that's staring you in a direction. And that really wasn't there. Cause like I said, my stepdad, he was, he would hustle, you know? So he was always on the go, always on a move. You know, he would take cat naps. He wouldn't really sleep. He'd take four hour naps on the couch and then he'd be back at it, you know? And it's like, there wasn't really like, yeah, it really wasn't that structure there, you know? And it led, it led me on a path to

To destruction, for real, for myself without the guidance, you know, because like, okay, so growing up in this environment, right, you see all these other people, all your other friends, like kids are smoking weed at 10 years old. I remember walking home from school. This was elementary school. And the one kid said, say I won't punch him in the face. Say you won't.

Just like, you know what I mean? He went up there and just like dropped them. And you were just following along with this too? Yeah, like just like, okay, that was cool, you know, and not cool, but like laughing about it, you know, but maybe feeling bad in a sense in the same way. I just didn't know how to, I didn't know myself at that time. You know what I mean? It's like.

I was a people person. You were trying to find like your identity, I guess. Yeah. But I was so young that I was like nine years old, you know, and like stuff like that. So we're like, that's a lot of pressure to put on a nine year old to try to figure himself out with no like father figure or anything. Yeah. Especially with your environment when it's so run down like that, like garbage everywhere. Just like, I remember the older kids in the neighborhood, they used to call the cops on themselves so that they could run from the police. Like it was cool to run from the police.

I remember, you know, a couple houses up, the one kid would, the police actually were looking for him and he's hiding on his porch roof laying down, you know. So it's like you see those things. I remember, you know, seeing, looking out my living room window and seeing an armed robbery across the street from me happening. Guy had a bag, I guess,

that he owed the guy some money he was crackhead or something like that owed him some money and robbed him right there and i was nine years old at that point too you know and like just seeing those things and then like uh so whenever i talk should i say like just keep going being you man okay i just want to make sure i'm using the right like terms like these people are this just just be you man okay so like there was even a time that we're like

My mom really went and put up with the drug dealers in a sense. He would just walk up and down the street counting his money all day. But you see these things when you're a kid. I knew about people selling drugs and I was aware of people selling crack and I was aware of robberies and just all of that. I feel like that's really bad for someone so young, but that's how it is for a lot of people in those types of communities.

But yeah, he would just count his money up and down, up and down. My mom used to stand on the corner because she grew up with him, you know? Yeah. Like drug deal, drug deal, yelling down the street, you know? Like not snitching, but just basically saying like, get that, like I got kids here, like, you know what I mean? Like stuff like that. So like she wasn't really like snitching on him or anything like that. She was just like,

Guess just like verbal she's very verbal like she wasn't scared to like speak her mind or say anything Yeah, which is I guess a good trait to have in a sense. Yeah, especially when you got so many kids, you know what I mean? Yeah but there was that and then there was this one time to where I was I was walking on my street and there was this kid older kid and he was teaching me how to break into cars and

And I was 10 years old at this point. Is this the first time you ever commit a crime? So I didn't commit a crime, but this is the first altercation I had with police based on the guy that I was with. So where we're walking up the street and he's looking in the cars and he's trying to pop handles. He had a Mercedes on him, long knife, you know. Get up to the basketball court. There's probably like five.

10 to 15 people in there. Next thing you know, there's seven cop cars come pulling up, zipping all around, laid everybody down on a basketball court. I'm 10 years old, you know, like, and that was my first run-in with the police, not run-in, like, personally, but my first experience, like,

I was laying on the ground in a basketball court and they walked over to the guy and picked a machete out of his, you know, out of his pants. And it's like, that's not good for a young child to like be around. Yeah, this is developing in your mind at that young age. A lot of fights happening at the park as well. I remember watching this one kid said that Kobe Bryant was his family member or something like that. And he got bullied for saying that. They stomped on his head. Like they were like literally like,

stomping on his head which is really crazy too just the violence you know yeah um now I know you end up committing a crime when you're 15 that we'll get into but was there anything before that like after this 10 year old self you're you're exposed to crime and whatnot do you start seeing yourself committing small crimes like shoplifting or anything yeah yeah so I actually uh I got

caught shoplifting at Schwartz's Market on Warrington Avenue, like the main strip in the neighborhood. Is that the first thing you've ever done illegally? Yeah, that was the first thing. And why'd you do that? Like, you were just like, let me try this? Or was it about the money? I had two friends with me that walked into the store with me and, you know, and they took something. So I decided I was going to take something too. And I guess I just followed. I followed. Did you know it was wrong?

No, see, I think that I was aware of

that it was wrong, but I don't feel like I was aware of my awareness, like of who I was. You know what I mean? It's like I was aware of my decisions, but I wasn't aware of myself. And you were just trying to fit in with the crowd. Yeah, and in a sense trying to fit in, but at the same time, it's like that's what was projected on us. If you think about the environment that I was in and the people that I was surrounded around, and I feel like the music played a really big part in that as well.

You know, Get Rich or Die Trying, 50 Cent. You know, I remember having that CD and like there wasn't really like don't listen to this or don't listen to that. It was just like I could do whatever I want. And it kind of like led me to just like that's what I was attracted to. Yeah. You know. So by the time you're 15 years old, you end up, you know, committing an armed assault robbery type setting. What happens that day and what exactly do you do? So...

So previously, though, I was breaking into a lot of cars at like 14. 14, I was breaking into tons of cars, drinking, smoking weed at 12 years old and all that stuff, too. So it was like real bad there. But so let me tell you how it went down. Yeah. All right. So how it went down is so I had I had a gun. I had a nine millimeter. Why does a 15 year old need a gun and how do you get that gun? So what happened was is I ended up getting robbed at a bus stop.

And I got jumped by three older people. Like, they were a lot older than I was. Excuse me. There was a lot. So I got, I was sitting at a bus stop waiting to get home. It was like 12 o'clock at night. I was 15 years old. Last bus running. All by myself. They came up to me, asked me if they could use my phone. So I went to go give them my phone and got jumped.

He punched me in the face. So I got up real quick. And the next thing you know, I'm surrounded. So I was a lot younger than him at the time too, you know? And so that really got my mind going. It's like, okay, I got robbed. So like, like made it okay for like. So you thought you needed a gun for protection? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely thought that I needed a gun for protection at a time. See, I don't want to say that though, because I really didn't get into like wanting a gun for protection until really like a,

Later on, that was just like that really like sparked something in me whenever that happened. Because what happened is I actually I stole my brother's gun. That day that you commit a robbery? No, probably like a week before that. About a week before we committed or I committed that robbery. A week before I committed that robbery, I stole my brother's gun. He drove me to school and I fell underneath the seat and I felt a gun underneath the seat.

And so I knew it was there. And at the time, like, I mean, from 13, 14 and 15, all of that stuff was like cool in a sense. It was like, you start small and then like just builds up, but like, that's what everybody else is doing. You know, it's like, you don't divide yourself from that unless you're a leader, like a strong one and you have values and like all of that stuff. And like that stuff that wasn't really taught to us in a sense, you know? And, uh, so, uh,

Took Jeremy's school one morning, probably like maybe a week or two after, you know, I felt the gun underneath the seat. I took the gun and I caught the PAT bus to school because there wasn't school buses. We caught city buses. So I had to catch two buses to get to high school. And instead of going to school, I got a 9mm on my hip, 15. Instead of going to school, I went to my friend's house.

showed him we ain't go to school that day and you thought it was cool just like have this gun or let me see that yeah it was like it was like that that's cool it's like it's a pistol you know you're 15 and did you want to like hurt anyone or you just you're just thinking it's cool because you're 15 years old see that's kind of like it's tough to say right because it's like the attention wasn't like oh i'm gonna go out there and really like cause harm on people it was kind of just like subconsciously just going with like everything that i'd

has taken in from, you know, all of my experiences previously from that because I had a lot of experiences previously from that. And like with the music and everything like that, it's just like that, I guess that was like the cool thing. And if you look around the neighborhood, a lot of people are getting killed and a lot of people are getting shot.

You know, and like, there's a lot of things happening. So like, there's probably multiple things going through your mind at the time. Did you ever shoot a gun by that point in time? No, I didn't shoot a gun at that time. So you just had it and you thought it was cool. You guys were listening to rap songs. You heard about it on TV, whatever. Yeah. So what do you guys end up deciding to do? You skip school, you have this gun. Where does it end up? So for about a week, about a week straight, we was running around just robbing people,

Just robbing wherever. Just robbing people wherever. What are you robbing and what are you taking? So, you know, we went into these apartment complexes, just random people there. We went to nothing. We wasn't even really like, it wasn't like we were robbing like, you know, somebody that sold drugs or somebody that did this. We were just like,

running around with a gun. - And you're 15 years old. - That's what I mean, a child with a gun at 15, they should not have guns at 15 years old. - Do you ever think that you're terrorizing some of these individuals? 'Cause imagine what they could be thinking if they're getting robbed with a gun, that's life threatening right there. Do you ever think about that? Or in that moment, did you think, hey, I'm hurting people? Not even physically, but emotionally?

So not at the time because it was like subconscious, but that just gave me the chills since you said that because like reflecting on that, there's pain that comes up now. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's like you don't realize that. And that's where like the guidance comes into play. And that's where like I held that resentment against my father and stuff like that because it's like where –

Where was that? Why was I so free at a young age, you know, in this environment? Now, are you guys making money from these robberies? No. So you're just getting whatever, like a few bucks. It's not really worth it. If anything, it was more like just like just to do it. So what's the robbery that happens that you end up getting arrested for? So it's it was playoffs. It was Buffalo Bills and a.

the Patriots in 2008. And how old are you? 15. 15, 2008. And it was me and my two friends were at my house. And we had a plan that we were going to, you know, go hit a lick, what we would call it, go hit a lick and grab a case of 40s for the playoff game, you know, and we're at my house.

And my mom looked at me. She said, why don't you guys just watch the game here? You know? No, no, no, no, no. Because Southside, like we're in the city. So it's like Southside's the main strip or whatever. Like there's a lot going on around the neighborhood, you know? So she wanted us to stay at home because she had a bad feeling, she said. She said, I got a really bad feeling, Jess. I said, you ain't got nothing to worry about. Like we're fine, you know? And then she said, well...

She looked at my one friend and she said, so whenever I don't mention names, right? I know I don't want to overthink it. Whenever I like don't want to mention names, should I say like my friend? I don't want to keep saying my friend, my friend, my friend. Whatever you want to say. Okay, cool, cool. Just check it. So she looked at my friend and she said, I want you to give me your phone number. I want you to give me your telephone number and your address for whenever the cops call me, I'm going to call your mom.

So she knew something was, you guys were on the note. She knew, she had the feeling, she had the gut feeling. And that's giving me the chills right now. So do you think if you had that father figure to say, hey, don't go out today or don't do this, your life would have been so much different? Absolutely. I would have had some discipline in my life. If she had told you don't do this, would you have listened or no? No, not at all. So you guys go against what she's thinking and where do you guys end up? Where do you go? So we left my house.

So we left my house. We're walking down towards Southside. And how it is, is like there's Arlington. It goes up and over. That's like the slope. So like we're in Arlington. We walk up and over. Some lady decides to ask us if we need a ride down the hill. And, you know, I'm sitting there. I got a nine millimeter on my hip. You know, that was the one carrying it. I'm 15. And I got my boy next to me. I got my boy in the front seat. This was an older lady, you know, like.

anything could have happened there especially because like not to go off but like my boy next to me he was like real ghetto like real involved you know like he was like real deep into like just his family his his upbringing was real bad you know what I mean like he he's already punched a cop in the face and he's the same age as me so like he's been a placement whatever so she takes us down drops us off

And, uh, we go to walk down the city steps to go down to the flats, we call it, SoSat flats. And we're sitting there for a minute. And, uh,

Some guy comes walking up. So our objective was to go rob somebody to come up with enough money to buy a case of 40s for the game. Which is what, like 20 or 30 bucks? Yeah, like $25. So you guys are risking your freedom. You know you're committing a crime just for this little amount of money. Yeah. Couldn't you just ask someone for the money? Probably. So you weren't thinking, you just thought it was cool to get this adrenaline rush for the crime? Yeah.

Yeah, I think that that has something to do with it. And I'll get a little bit deeper into that later on in the interview. But I think that that has something to do with this, the adrenaline rush that comes with it. And it's the like, this is my clique. This is who we are. Because there's multiple cliques. And I jumped around between like, not really jumped around, but I was cool with everybody. Like I was a people person, you know what I mean? But it's like...

So what happens now? Do you guys rob this guy? What exactly goes down? So what happened was, is the guy comes walking up. I got the 9mm on my hip. My friend looks at me and says, Loke, they call me Loke. Loke, give me the gun. Or he said, let me back up. He said, let's go. Let's get him.

I was like, "Chill, bro. We don't even know what he has." It doesn't look like he has anything. He has tight pants on. He doesn't really like ... No book bag, nothing. He said, "Lo, quit being a bitch. Give me the gun." What'd I do? I gave him the gun. Whenever I gave him the gun, he walked up and he said something to him. The guy turned around and he pointed a 9 millimeter at his face.

And whenever he pointed it at his face, the guy said, that's a fake gun. We're kids. You know, he said, that's a fake gun. So my boy popped the clip out, showed him the clip, put it back in, cocked it back, and then aimed it at his head. And the guy was still like, he was scared, but like he wasn't like, oh, you know what I mean? Like he was older. He was probably like 25, you know? So he started giving him a little bit of trouble, like just the feedback, just the conversation. So me and my boy...

They were having an altercation up there. We're probably like 15 feet away. No, I want to say like we're probably like 25 feet away. So we go to walk up to like give them some assistance and then we start beating them up. Beating up the guy.

And I wasn't going as hard, but like I was present, like I was still there. You know what I mean? Are you thinking at all like this isn't what I signed up for or anything like that? No. You were just you're going with it. You were following the lead of your boy. Yeah. So you start beating this guy up. What happens next? So he gets away. He hops over the fence. He starts pounding on this door. So as he's pounding on the door, my two boys walking away.

I'm like, what are you guys doing? You guys are walking. We got to run. We got to go. The cops are about to be here. You know what I mean? Like, I know for a fact he's about to, the cops are about to be looking for us. So then we start running. Next thing you know, all we hear is sirens. So we hit a little cut. So we hit a cut. We're in between these two houses. We decided to split up. There's cop cars everywhere. So now it's kind of like cat and mouse, you know? So like we're on the south side slopes. Like,

Our freedom's on the line. But at the same time, it's like a game. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, we got to get away. Boom. So we split up. My one boy goes down. That's smart, right? Go down the hill. Me and my other boy, we go up the hill. Next thing you know, we're walking down the street. Cop car rides past us, keeps going. We're like, oh, shit. Nerves going. We're thinking like, oh. Next thing you know, another cop comes down. Hey, stop right there. There are steps right next to us.

And we just darted. We just booked it down the steps. Boom. Because, you know, got the gun on us. Ran down the steps. We hit a cut. Now we're running up a hill. So we're running up these backyards. And I remember running and I'm running out of breath. I'm running, running, running. And I ran out of breath. I stopped. So I tried to hide underneath this fence. My boy looked at me and he was like, come on, what are you doing? Come on. I'm like, I'm good, bro. You know, I'm hiding.

You know what I mean? There's cops. They're old. They're not dumb. You know what I mean? It's like, I think I'm hiding underneath of a fence, you know? Next thing you know, I got seven guns drawn on me. What's going through your mind when the guns are drawn on you? I don't got a gun on me. Did you ditch the gun? Or your friend ditched the gun? He had it on him. He kept going. But what was going through my mind is like, oh, shit, they're about to, they might shoot me, you know? Like, so first thing I'm saying, I don't got a gun on me.

Boom. So I got arrested. Did they arrest your other friends or they didn't catch them? They didn't. They didn't catch them until a little bit later on. So whenever they caught me, I'm sitting there in handcuffs. There's about six cop cars. The victim rode past in a cop car and said, yeah, that was one of them. And it took me to a police station. I'm shackled now at this point, shackled to a bench, just sitting there.

I'd say about an hour and a half later, my other boy comes walking down with his head down. He got caught. He got caught. And I looked up at him and I was like, damn, they got you too, bro. Like that's the first thing I said was like, they got you too, you know? And he's like, yep. And you guys are like in the county jail. So at this point we're just in like the police station on the south side. Okay. So we're sitting down there for a little while. And what's crazy is like how my mom said like, I'm going to call your mom kind of thing to my one friend.

Well, that's the friend that got away. So what's crazy is like my mom called just what she said she was going to do, his mom, and said, hey, just want to let you know that they caught yada, yada, yada. My mom probably thought that they caught all of us. You know, she didn't know. So next thing you know, I'm sitting down there at the police station. The phone rings and it's my other boy's mom that got away there.

And she's like, that motherfucker, what did he do? Yada, yada, yada, yada. He's, excuse my language, he's yelling or she's yelling this and that. He didn't even get caught. So she's throwing his name in it. And that's how they catch him? Well, they didn't get him. Okay. And what's your first conversation with your mom like? So the first conversation with my mom. After you got arrested. After I got arrested. That point was a blur.

That point was blurred because what happened was I didn't get a chance to talk to her. So me and my boy, it's probably like 8 o'clock at night. We did this probably around, I'd say, like 3 o'clock or so. They take us to another police station.

To do some kind of processing with us. I remember sitting on the elevator and I looked at the cop's taser and I was like, that's a cool taser. Like, you know, I'm 15, man. I'm not even realizing what I'm about to go through, you know? Is there an option for bail at all? And so there was an option for bail. But the cop actually... So...

Take us. OK, I'll make this part quick. They took us to the police station and then they took us to Schumann Center. And that's like the juvenile detention center. Yeah. So we get there. And once we go to go in to like get placed there, that whoever was sitting at intake looked at our paperwork and said, we can't accept them. They're being trialed as an adult. And my boy looked at me. He said, you're ready for this.

Because we're going to the county. You know what I mean? You're 15 years old. You're not going to Chum, man. You're not going to the juvenile detention center. And that was crazy. Like that right there. That was the whole transition. What were your charges exactly? So armed robbery, conspiracy to armed robbery, and inflict bodily harm. And these are all felonies? Yeah. Yeah. Of course, the armed robbery and the conspiracy to armed robbery.

But it's crazy how that went too, right? Because like, okay, so since they were all, they were felonies and all that, they didn't get a gun. They didn't find a gun. So like, since they didn't find a gun, we were so young to where like, it was just, it was a shit show for them in a sense. Cause like, we shouldn't have really been placed because there's like no like evidence there. You know what I mean? And it's like,

It was just... It was weird how, like, that really worked out in a sense. And I really think that, like, the cop...

I don't know if I can say his name or not. You could delete it, but Officer Squares. He actually, like, I remember him saying, like, I see a lot of myself in you when I was a kid. Like, he was a troubled kid. Yeah. You know, so, like, I don't know, like, if he had anything to do with, like, how things worked out or whatever, but he ended up getting arrested for being a dirty cop later on down the road. Wow. But that was crazy, too. Did you end up getting bail? So, after...

Four months. I spent my 16th birthday locked up in the county County. Yeah So what's like the county like for a 15 year old kid you're put in with there. They didn't separate you No, they put you with full-grown adults. Yeah, how are people treating you? So whenever we first went in there we went up to you know PC at first up on a protective protective custody at first they took our shoelaces from us took everything from us and You know, it was me and my friend in the same cell. Um

We were locked in there. And then they let us out. Once they let us out, we were like, you know, we were on that pod. I think it was 6F, 7F. We were on that pod for like maybe like four days. But that's the pod with like the killers and this and that. Nobody really like up on that pod. Nobody really paid us that much attention because we were so young. They just had no business really messing with us. You know what I mean? At that point, as I can remember, because like it wasn't really like

It just felt like I'm a very adaptable person. So like I'm not sitting there scared. I'm not nervous. I'm not like, you know what I mean? Like I'm not thinking of the worst or anything like that. I'm just going with the flow. What's the sleeping situation like? Are you guys in cells? Are you in a dorm? Cells. Cells and you're locked in all day? Yeah. So we're in cells. Are you guys on protective custody? Yeah. You're sealed up together? Yeah. We're sealed up together and we're locked in the whole day. Oh, wow.

We were locked in a whole day for like, I think it was like five days. And that was weird because, you know, you're sitting there with one of your best friends, shitting and pissing next to each other, you know, sharing a cell like that. It's kind of just like. Did it feel real like that you're actually in jail? It didn't. It did, but it didn't because I remember my first dream that I had while in jail was that I was free. And then I woke up.

And I was in jail. Do you think your mindset changed at all? Like you grew up in that moment that this was like the scared straight program, like this hit you, like you don't want to go on to any more bullshit after this? Yeah, it's funny you say that because I remember my stepdad when I was younger, he said, you're so fucking hardheaded. You're going to end up in jail just like your dad. You should be on that scared straight program. But it wasn't the scared straight program. It was the real deal. So like, you know what I mean? But like, I didn't feel like...

Back to your question, though, I didn't really feel that it was like... Not that it was real or that it wasn't real. It was just kind of like I was just like going with the flow. Yeah, when you finally get out of like the SHU or solitary, are you... When you're in general population, do you see like a lot of violence in the county jail? So yeah, once we got out of there, they took us down to 2E. Once we walked into 2E, I remember walking in. This was...

This was one of the parts that probably, like, emotionally stuck with me just because of the feeling that I had whenever it happened. Because you know how emotions can, like, stay in you at times unless you, like, really get them out. Like, you won't even notice them sometimes. Yeah. We're going to walk in, and everybody's pounding on their door. Put them in my cell, CEO Fresh Meat. Put them in my cell. Right?

I'm looking at Ev like, yo, bro, what are we about to be getting into? You know what I mean? Like, because now we're getting settled in, settled in. Like before we were just like protective custody. Okay. Now we're out for a couple of days and now we're getting settled into our new home. And once we got in there, I mean, like everybody said that and did all that. Right. But like, there was like a, there was like a mutual respect thing because we were so young. Did they know what your charges were?

Uh, no, but I'm sure that there was, there wasn't really even much talk about it. There was a little bit of talk. Like I connected with a couple of people. Um, I actually began to become like very active on the pod, like playing spades. Uh, I was, uh, running around, uh,

just connecting with everybody. You know, I was listening to people's stories. But these are like grown men. Grown men. I think it's crazy that they put a 15-year-old kid in general population with guys that are like 40 years old and you're just out there to fend for yourself. Yeah.

So what do you do you have to develop like a prison hustle because you didn't really come for money or anything. So how are you making money inside this county jail? So what happened was is my mom was actually like putting money on my books like she wasn't completely like poor, but we were poor. You know what I mean? It's like she had a job. She went through school for and everything like that. But like

We were poor because that's after the divorce. Whenever they had a divorce, I lived in Ohio for like two years. My mom got a settlement for breaking her ankle. We moved to Ohio, thought that we were out of the ghetto, thought that it was going to be like a new start, you know. And, of course, I linked up with the bad kids. But we up and left one day. So, like, my stepdad was like real, like, heavy on, like, you know, just –

not bashing me but like he was just like always there was always something that he had to say so like I remember my mom saying like just give me the word if you want to leave and we'll leave we'll pack your bags I was 12 years old so like at that point like and I've already developed a lot of friends I was very popular because you know the city kid moves to like a decent like place in a sense you know what I mean it's like everybody was cool but we just up and left so like we were just like

gone you know yeah and that and that was kind of crazy too because like that was around Christmas so like that really had an effect on everything else too because that's whenever I lost that stepdad father figure and then

You know, got thrown back into the mix. And whenever I came home from Ohio, everybody welcomed me with open hugs. So now everybody's a little bit older than they were before I left when they were smoking weed at 10. And it was just like, it was just on from there. But back to your question, my bad. I didn't mean to do that. It just kind of connected in with what you were saying.

What was you saying? Oh, about what you, if you had to have a prison hustle or not. So, so yeah, I didn't have to have a prison hustle. Um, there was a couple of inmates that looked out for me, like the one inmate, a tall white guy, like real cool laid back. Uh, he gave me a extra cot so that I could double up. Cause you know, the real thin mattresses that they give you. So I had two mattresses at a top bunk. Um,

And one guy gave me a radio. He looked out. So it's like really crazy too, right? Because like you would think that like, you know, but like how it shapes you though, like that, that's where like how it shapes you afterwards. You know what I mean? It's still like, it's still like very bad for like,

such a young child to go through. How are the officers treating you as this 15-year-old kid in a county jail? So the officers, the officers were like, I didn't really have like too many conversations with the officers wise. Like they were kind of just like laid back. They just minded their business. I remember the one officer, my one cellie,

uh, he was an Italian guy. He's probably like 50, 55 years old. And that's crazy too, right? The age difference between a 15 year old and, and a 50, like you should, bro, the door is locked. Once the door is locked at night, you know what I mean? Like anything can happen. Like, but, uh, he, he used to be a, he would be, uh,

he was a worker so since he was a worker on the pod the door used to be allowed to be open so I remember they actually let me out the one time to sit and watch TV out there and I remember people looking outside of their cells like like really but like they weren't like mad you know what I'm saying but like the COs were kind of like laid back in a sense but like

It was still rough. I'm pulling, like, the good out of it. I remember seeing the one cell was filled with blood from the one fight, which was real crazy. There was a couple fights on the pods over food as well. But, like, I wasn't in the mix of that, but I seen that. And I remember the rumor going around that one guy hung himself from the top bar, you know, and, like... It's all crazy shit. All crazy stuff, man. What about, like, the food? What's the food like in a county jail? Oh, the food, man...

that that that was that was different i know like in the federal system everyone says county jail is the worst so how how bad was it oh the county jail food was bad what are they serving the county uh they called it the big sausages they called them donkey whatever donkey dicks or something like that but like nasty just like it looked like sludge almost it just looked like they just scoop boom you know and it's like

I don't even remember. I just remember it being like nasty. Yeah. You know? So you were able to get out after the four months on bail or whatever. How does your case get resolved? How does this situation come to a close? So this was my first offense. So how this unraveled was, is my boy that was with me, he's already been in trouble a few times. I think that they took into account, now I could be wrong, they took into account that, you know,

We were so young. My mom, she probably could have done something because like we should have been on our own pod, right? Like there should, there should have been a juvenile pod down there. And I don't know if there was like something behind that or something like that. But I remember I ended up getting house arrest restitution. Uh, my mom ended up getting me an attorney. So like that probably helped out, you know, because of the age, um,

And I was on probation for like, I think like four years or something like that. So you didn't get any more jail time? I didn't get any more jail time. But I do remember that they needed me to come to Schumann to do something. And then they took me in and they made me stay there for like three days or something like that. Now, was this the last time you ever get in trouble? No, not at all. That was the beginning. So this was like your wake up call. Well, like this was supposed to be your wake up call.

You had this one offense. It didn't turn out too bad. Like you only got a few months and then house arrest and probation. You get out, you're on probation. How does it get worse? How does that just become the start of your, of the crime, I guess? So it kind of like, okay, so whenever I was released from the county jail,

There was nobody to pick me up out front because nobody knew that I was getting released. The first thing I did was walk across the bridge, the city bridge, as a free child, went to my friend's house, and his aunt went and got us a case of beer, and we were smoking weed. So it's like right back into like, you know what I mean? And it all stems from the people you're hanging out with. Yeah, yep, yep, and that's exactly what it is, you know? And then, you know, it was right back to breaking into cars, and it was just back into like...

The flow of things and then you get older. You're not thinking at all like, hey, I just did this. I got a felony on my record. If I get caught again, I'm screwed. I think I think the thing with that is, is that like I wasn't punished enough for it. You know what I'm saying? Like since I got off so easy and I just kind of just like I didn't really feel like it was like.

I don't know. See, that's that shouldn't have been going through my head at that young neither. You know what I'm saying? Like that should have like really straightened me out in a sense. But I do remember getting out of there and the high school telling me that they can't accept me because I was child as an adult. And that was really weird, too. Did you ever get to finish high school? No, I ended up drop because I ended up going through homeschool after that because they wouldn't accept me in.

Then my mom fought that, and then they ended up letting me back in because the cases, everything got, like, dropped down, however that went, and let me back in. I didn't have enough credits to transfer over because instead of doing homeschool, I was running around, smoking weed, selling weed, doing all that, and didn't have enough credits, and they told me that I was going to have to repeat that grade, and with repeating that grade,

I was like, I'm better off just dropping out. So my mom actually signed me out of high school. So I think I was like 16 at that point. And that was different too because whenever that happened, I even remember what high school I was running around selling weed around the hallways. Like that was my thing. I was always selling something. I was always hustling something. Little entrepreneur. Yeah, that was my thing. It was like I always had my hands on something, doing something to make some money.

And, uh, I remember getting patted down by, you know, getting called out of home room and patted down by, uh, the, the principal and the security guard. And they're searching me and he's saying, why is your heart beating? Like you got a gun on you. And I literally got an ounce of weed separately bagged up underneath my underwear tucked under. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, my heart's beating. Cause I'm in the office with you and you, you know what I mean? And it's like, but I had something on me and I always had something on me. And, uh,

But yeah, after school. Do you get caught anymore? Like, do you do any more jail time or what happens like in the coming years? So there's so much in between there, right? Because like I bought two shotguns off of my boy that got ended up getting killed previously to that. And my one boy, we're at his house and this guy shows up with a bag of guns, like 16 and

you know so like I've already had a nine millimeter multiple weapons I had a 380 357 my one boy's 357 that he sold to my other boy he shot somebody in the head with it and uh he ended up doing life but leading up to like all that my second like running I was doing my thing and uh

out of my house, in and out, in and out, in and out. Had some weapons in the house. And how old are you at this point? At this point, this is, I was 18. So there was a big gap there. That's why I was trying to like fill in the gap a little bit because there was so much that came through all that, you know, like-

Just like selling drugs. I remember shooting guns in a Grandview Park at 16. I remember being served 40s at the beer distributor at 16. Yeah. I remember rolling up weed in the back of Paisanos. So that first time you got caught really just spiraled everything. Spiraled everything. I started crushing windows instead of just checking car door handles. We were breaking because...

the people I was with were older. So they were showing us how to pop the car windows with the screwdriver. I stole my first car at 16 and I tried to keep it. That's crazy how it all escalated when it should have been like a wake up call. If you just had someone to say, Hey, you know, you need to get your fucking life on track. Yeah. So what, what happens then? Do you get, do you go back to jail? So, uh, my host got ran up and I heard a knock, heard a knock on the door. Nobody, you know, was supposed to be coming through. So, so who is it?

No answer. So my mind started thinking, and it was actually Thanksgiving, the night before Thanksgiving, we were drinking Hennessy. So we're all messed up, like, I'm bottling, counting my money from all the money that I made that day, checking my pockets, getting everything together. It's like 12 o'clock. I'm always the last one to go to sleep, you know what I mean, take catnaps. But I didn't have my gun on me. And so the knock on the door, and I was thinking, and then I was like, oh, yeah, maybe that was supposed to come through, right?

So I go to open the door. Next thing you know, I got a gun to my hip. They're trying to get in. So like now I'm thinking like now I'm like, OK, it's about to go down. Like there ain't no backing out at this point. You know what I'm saying? It's like something's about to happen. So it's like, OK, I could either stay here. I don't got a gun on me right now. I could either stay here with the with the risk of, you know, not only them taking everything, but just like, you know, you don't know what's going to happen in this situation. Right. So it's like so instinct wise, I try to try to run.

pushing the door back they're pushing in two older dudes it's always older people I was always like you know like around older people like or there's always older people but boom try to push in the door push back push back they make their way in so first thing that clicked in my mind was like okay I'm gonna go out the front but if I go out the front there might be somebody waiting for me out the front with a gun you know what I mean like I don't know what's about to happen so I dip out the front so now I'm out the house so I'm like all right cool so now that I'm out the house I'm like

All right, they know that I got guns. So they might think that, you know, I might pop around the corner or something like that. So they ended up going in there. I hear two shots in the back alley. I run back to the house. And the next thing you know, about like 12 to 13 police cars on my street lined up front and back going through everything. So I got robbed. And then the cops came. How does that work? Yeah, and they arrested me. What did you get arrested on? We're sitting there intent to deliver...

They found O-sheets. They found bullets. They didn't find no guns because whenever I... It's all felonies. Yeah, whenever I went back to the house, I gave...

everything that i could find so my boys told him to leave yeah it just dipped out you know and uh what are you facing at this point like when they arrest you see and that's weird too and this is why like by the grace of god like there was always something looking over me because like there was times that were like i've gotten out of some crazy situations like a police raid with weed on me and then i leave the police raid and i go sell weed down the street you know what i mean like how does that happen so like in this situation for instance like

Boom, we're sitting on the couch. They're like, where's the guns? Where's the guns? I got this roommate next to me. He's crying. Tell him where the guns are. I'm like, what are you talking about? So bang, get arrested. And Thanksgiving. Did they let you out on bond? Yeah, I got bailed out. So you got bailed out. How does this case get resolved? It's crazy because they took $10,000 off me. They took $10,000 off me.

I'm not sure if that was marked down or not though. That's weird. And a couple other things and it got marked down to disorderly conduct. It got the whole case got marked down to a disorderly conduct. Yeah, because they didn't have guns. They didn't get no guns. They had an O-sheet. I had an attorney too. So I still had some money. So you never did jail time for this? So no, but I was down there. So like I didn't do jail time for that.

Yeah. And was this the last time you ever commit like a crime? That's whenever I was like, okay, I need to change. That's when it hit me. Why was that the wake up call? That's when it hit me. That was the wake up call because I was tired of it. And I guess because it could have been worse? Yeah. You're thinking, wow, I really got a second chance. Like I could have, it could have been a lot worse, this situation. It could have been a lot worse. Not only that, like-

It was on my mind, okay, I either change what I'm doing or I go find the people that did this with a gun. And how old are you when this thing happened? That's when I was 18 at that point. You're 18, you have this realization, you never look back since, like it's been on the straight and narrow? No, I wouldn't say that, but...

That is that that's when I had like I've just been through so much shit to where I was like I'm I've had enough of it and like ever since I was younger like I knew that I always wanted a family right and I knew that you know I always wanted to make a lot of money and I now that I'm 18 whenever I was younger Whenever I think about making a lot of money you think that doing this stuff's gonna make you a lot of money It's not you know, it's really not you got to do something bigger than that like I

You got to do something different than that. What do you do next? Do you go finish school? I have a kid. You have a kid? And did that keep you on like the stray and error, I guess? Did that ground you? Give you something to like have hope for, I guess? Yeah. And that reevaluated your life? I still bought a 40 after that though. I still had a gun after that. You still had a gun, but you never went back to like that crime life? Yeah. For protection. That's all it was. What were you doing for work? I was...

Working at Primanti Brothers on the South Side. Okay, what's that? Making Cool Slow. It's like a Pittsburgh sandwich place. They're famous for their Primanti sandwiches. It's like French fries, Cool Slow, all that, I guess, whatever. But yeah, I was working down there. Staying out of trouble? Staying out of trouble. Were you more cautious of who you were hanging out with at this point? That's a good question. Yeah, I was. I was. I started distancing myself. I started to get more in tune with myself.

and less in tune with the environment. And I think that that really helped me because whenever I had a kid on the way and things weren't really working out between me and my firstborn's mom and things kind of went like a little sideways. But then I met my wife now.

We've been together for 10 years since I was 20. And that was the, that was the blessing you needed. The blessing. Like, but she helped ground you, like keep you on track and keep you on the straight and narrow. Yeah, she did. So you haven't committed like any crimes since that last one? No, that, that, I think that was like the end for me. How's your relationship now with like your family, your mother, your siblings? It's, it's good, you know, because, you know, once I got out of that lifestyle, I

I realized that I was able to change my reality, you know? So I got out of that lifestyle and I got into sales and I started selling legal things, right? What you're good at. You took your strength, what you're good at, and you put it into something good. Yeah. I mean, that's so important. I mean, I look at me like my passion was always like nightclub entertainment and stuff. And that led me into some trouble. So now I just put the,

put that passion, drive and energy into what I do now. Like, I think that we all have like positive, good traits about us. And if you could take that and drive it into something, then you find your purpose. And that essentially brings you on a hundred percent. That's great that you, you were able to find that. Are you cautious now?

Like thinking back to the past, what your relationship was like was or lack of with your father. Do you make sure that with your child now, it's not that same dynamic? So what I've learned over the time is like, I've really learned to understand people, right? I used to hold it against them, you know, and like I used to like blame everything, everybody else and everything around me. And then I started like taking full responsibility and taking accountability, you know, and I started to learn to like, but yet I am more like,

Trying to do things for my kids that weren't there for me necessarily to where like I'm trying to, I want to be there to support them and to guide them. For instance, right, my 13-year-old.

like I wanted him to have a name I think that it's important for you to have an aim in life right something that you're working towards because that's what I didn't have neither I didn't have a name I didn't have goals I didn't even know about goals they didn't teach us values they didn't teach us financial literacy anything they didn't really like there was nothing really there they just teach you to like be a worker so like I guess from all my experiences I'm able to like use that entrepreneurial spirit that I have and it rubs off on my kids like for instance you know uh

My nine-year-old Jordan, he was talking about, you know, he wants to be a vet. So, you know, I tell him, you know, instead of being a vet, why don't you do something that can make an impact, you know, on a much bigger scale. So, like, I just, like, leveling up that mindset and then, like, the encouragement. I think encouragement is huge. I think a lot of us lack encouragement. And I think that that's encouragement builds confidence. And confidence, you know, with an aim, that you could achieve anything that you think possible.

That you could wish. Yeah. Have you gotten the chance to have that conversation with your kids, like about your mistakes and said like, these are the mistakes I made as your father. And like, I don't want you to follow down that path. I have, but like briefly, like, I don't want to get like too deep into it with them because like,

With doing that, you spark something inside of them, right? So for instance, my 13-year-old, he wants to play Grand Theft Auto. He wants to do this and he wants to do that. I understand you're a kid, you know what I mean? And like, I played Grand Theft Auto growing up, but like, look at the impact that that had on me, you know what I mean? And like, just all that stuff. So like, I'm more strict, but I'm more like, it's not even that I'm strict. I'm just trying to...

I'm trying to move up, not down. Yeah. So, you know what I'm saying? Like with rap music, for instance, right? Like what it projects on these kids nowadays is like violence and like shooting and like killing. Like I listened to Young Jeezy and I started selling drugs. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, and then Lil Boosie, you start robbing people. It's like, I feel like music has, or sound has a big,

part to play in a lot of things too. It's like it conditions your mind because your mind is very powerful. Now, like God forbid your kids make the same mistakes that you did when you were their age. How would you navigate that situation knowing what you know now? If one of my kids was the, I'd have, I've had, I would have an understanding in a sense, but I would, I would take the responsibility of like, what did I do?

You know, to where like cause this, like where was I not at in their life? So do you think like you're more aware now on like when you didn't have that father figure, you're more aware of their actions to make sure that they don't travel down that? Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I feel like to be conscious of all that is very important, too.

And I mean, everything you've been through has made you like a better father. I know, like, I want kids one day and the day I have kids and obviously it's going to be a big part of who I am, like sharing my experiences with them so they don't make those mistakes. And so they know like who their father is and why the way he is because of his like past mistakes.

they never really leave you like those mistakes are always there but you use that kind of like as a fuel and a direction to like navigate your life so I like I know like as someone that doesn't have kids yet but wants kids like I look forward like that's something I actively think about now if you could look at like your 15 year old self right now and have a conversation with that 15 year old self what would you say to him I would tell him to uh be a leader

Be a leader, not a follower. And you think being the follower was like the root of all your issues? I think a lot of us are followers without realizing it, you know, because we tend to just like, we all have those leadership qualities, but it's like, you got to pull the, some, somebody either has to pull those out of you or you got to pull them out of yourself and doing it alone is hard, especially being a young kid. But yeah, due to, you know, following, I believe that that that's where, that's where like it,

There's an issue that lies with that for sure. So like what's next for you? What do you want to do? Like what's your goals? What's your aspirations? So my goal right now is I've been so consumed, right? And that's kind of hard because it takes a toll on you whenever you're so consumed because you get disconnected in a sense. And like that love and joy, it's like,

a sense of it is absent from you in a sense, you know what I'm saying? Because like, it's a lonely road, bro. Especially when you don't got like friends or anything like that. Cause you had kids so young and then all your friends, what they did, you got to find a new group. You got to find a new community. Um, and that's hard by itself. And then just managing the household and all that, you know what I mean? So like my ultimate goal is to, you know, be as close as I can with, you know, my kids, my children, my family, and to, uh,

I really want to improve the quality of life around for the, I really want to improve the quality of life for those around me and those closest to my heart for real. You know what I mean? And I want to help. I've always had a heart and that that's the, that's the problem that we're like,

that I have with myself is like, why'd you do those things? Right. Cause I've always had a heart. Like I've always like had good intentions, but I was out there doing, that's where I said that like, I was aware of my wrong doings, but I wasn't aware of like my awareness of who I was. And now I know who I am. And I look back. Cause I feel like self-reflection is very important. And you found your identity now. Yeah. And I found that. And, and, and I'm not even saying that, you know, I've completely found it. Right. Because it's a process, you know what I mean? So like, I'm,

I mean, we're all learning and growing daily, you know? But at least like now you have like that purpose. And I think you use your pain, you use that as like a motivator and you use that to do good. It's a crazy drive. Because you don't know how powerful it is to...

share your experiences of pain you don't know who you can affect like people listening watching this right now like they could hear a story like yours and if they're young they could think wow I'm making those same mistakes let me not end up like that or wow I don't want my kids to follow down that path or wow you know change is possible so like you can be affecting even if what you feel like you're doing now is small it's bigger once you're just

sharing your story and putting it out there because it gives people hope in that sense. Yep. Yep. And that's, and that's the ultimate goal to the longterm. It's like, I want to inspire people to where like, you know, your environment doesn't determine your destiny because a lot of people are just moving subconsciously and they could, they have the power to change that. And it comes with mindset. Like you got to actually want it, but you got to know what you want. So sometimes you got to look back into your childhood and,

and just find out what you liked. And like, I've always wanted a kid named Jordan. I got a kid named Jordan. I always wanted a kid named Mitchell. I got a kid named Mitchell. You know what I mean? Like I've always like wanted a family. I got a family. So you could like really manifest this stuff. And it's not like manifest whatever, like law of attraction, but you could really like

you just got to find what you wanted and now that i realized that now right now i have everything that i wanted right yeah so now it's like and you get what you put into it yeah like if you want that good relationship you can't be a piece of you can't actually you can't not put in effort it doesn't come to you you can't like i say this all the time

You want to lose weight. You can't say I want to lose weight and not do anything. You want to keep a good girl around. You can't not put in the effort and be an asshole. So it's just things like that. You know, it's mindsets, everything. It's so powerful. And I think that values have a very like large role to play there, right? Is having that value system, like at your core, that way you stand on your values, like

If I could send a message to younger kids or whatever, teenagers, have some sense of – have your values written down. What do you stand on? What will you stand on? Rather it be loyalty, rather it be honesty, right? Rather it be all these things. That way – because you know – it helps you define you in a sense. You know what I'm saying? Write down your strengths and weaknesses too. Write down your strengths. Find –

Go within. Definitely, man. Well, Jesse, thank you for coming on the show today. It was great talking to you. I wish you the best in like your future endeavors and, you know, rooting for you and everything's to come. I'm sure there'll be more setbacks as there is for all of us on our journey, but just keep pushing through and just remember where you came from on the path and, you know, excited for you, man. I wish you the best. Thank you for having me. Of course.