Brothers Sentenced To LIFE IN PRISON | Lyle and Lonnie Jones
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On today's episode of Locked In with Ian Bick, I'm not only interviewing one, but two guests who also happen to be brothers. On

On today's episode, we dive into the lives of Lyle and Lonnie Jones, who are both sentenced to life in prison and released after the passing of the First Step Act on relation to drug charges. Make sure you guys like, comment, subscribe, and share. And if you guys are listening to this on our audio streaming platforms, leave us a review. These are the stories that will change your life forever. Thank you guys for tuning in to Locked In with Ian Bick.

Lyle, Lonnie Jones, awesome to have you guys on Locked In today. This is our first interview where we have two people on the show that are also brothers. So I'm like super excited for this. I know in the beginning we had talked and we were going to do like two separate interviews.

Who was I talking to? Lyle. Talking to me, yeah. Yeah, and then we were like, you know what? Let's just do the whole thing together. So super excited for this. Thank you guys for coming on the show. Thanks for having us. Definitely thanks for having us. Now, are you guys actual brothers? Are you stepbrothers? What's the dynamic? Brothers. Same mother, same father, brothers. Interesting. So how was growing up for you guys? I mean, growing up was the typical two-parent household. You know what I'm saying? Me and my brother...

And we had a younger brother, too. But we had a mother, father. You know what I'm saying? Father worked. Mother took care of the home. Raised us well. We played sports. You know what I'm saying? Everything was good. We had a religious background. And we was raised as children being respectful to our parents and to others. You know what I'm saying? This is how our father raised us. So our upbringing was amazing. Now, what did your family do for work? My dad, he was various jobs. He was a...

He worked in the halfway house as a director in the halfway house. He worked in the school system, the Bridgeport Public School system. And then he had a lot of little side jobs that he did to make ends meet so we can be in a household where we can financially be stable. So he did a lot of odd jobs also. And your mother? My mother, she basically was a stay-at-home mom, and then she ran a daycare also in the basement of our home.

Now, I'm interested in hearing what you each thought of each other at that age. So, Lonnie, if you want to go first, what you thought of Lyle, and then we'll reverse it and get each other's perspective. Well, you know, he was big bro, right? So, I always looked up to him. He's my big brother. You know what I'm saying? He was...

Amazing in sports. You know how the little brother always want to be like the big brother. So everything he did, I would emulate. You know what I'm saying? And we close in age. So he wanted these type of shoes. I wanted those type of shoes. He wanted to play basketball. I wanted to play basketball. He wanted to play baseball. I wanted to play baseball.

I tried baseball. I wasn't too good. So everything he did, I tried to emulate growing up. And what did you think of Lonnie? Well, he wasn't the typical little brother. He always thought he was my big brother. Even today, he thinks he's my big brother. You know what I'm saying? I call him little big brother. But since we were close in age, we did everything together. So it wasn't like we was five, six, seven years apart. We was basically two years. And we were around the same size.

At that time, so we wore the same pants sometimes. We wore the same size sneaker. You know, we went out together. It didn't change until I got my license and I was in high school and he wanted to tag along. That's when I'm like, you're 14, I'm 16. I got my friends, you got your friends. But you know, we was, but we was close. Growing up, we was close. Is there any like traumatic experiences in your childhood? Like in the middle school or high school days? No. Well, one traumatic experience with me was when he got hit by a car.

Okay. He got hit by a car. Me and him was crossing the street. And I think he was, what, eight? Seven or eight. Seven or eight. I was like 10 years old. And he went in front of me and he got hit and went all the way up and came all the way down on the car and rolled. And I thought he was dead.

until he came and put the smelling salt under his nose and his legs was broken, all that type stuff. But that messed me up. I don't remember that to this day. I don't even remember it. Do you think that changed the dynamic of your relationship going forward as you guys evolved? It definitely changed the dynamic of how I felt about him. Like, because you...

The picture actually losing your brother in which at that time was my best friend. You know what I'm saying? We did everything together and we was actually playing and then trying to cross the street to go scare some people. And he just went in front of me. Yeah, definitely changed. So, you know, I tried to cherish when he,

came out of that situation. I try to cherish every moment we spent together. And you kind of took like that older brother role in a sense. Yeah, protector. More protector. Yeah, you try to be the protector. And do we see that like evolve when you guys start getting into business together like later on because of that moment? Absolutely.

Absolutely. Like we do all our businesses. We got four businesses together. You know, we got four different businesses. Well, three. And then one, he's in Florida doing his thing. And there's another side one. But we got three businesses that we actually own together. Now, the city that you guys are growing up in, is there a lot of crime? Is there violence? Like what are you surrounded by? It's a lot of crime, especially when we was before we got incarcerated. I think Bridgeport was like number three in the nation per capita as far as homicide rate.

you know, Bridgeport, Connecticut. So it's, it's, it's fly. It's getting better, but it's, it's a lot of crime out there. And how are you able to stay away from that? Like as kids growing up? Well, we, we, uh, like my dad, he moved us out. Like we was born in the projects, but he moved us out into like a suburban area where we went to school away, even though we went back and had friends and played, but his guidance and his, his stance as a man, uh,

kept us away from that. Like, us, like, saying, like, we fear God, right? But when you fear your father growing up, like, yo, I'm not going to do it because Pops ain't playing. Pops know what it is over there. He ain't playing. So you have that fear and that respect for your father because you see how hard he worked in trying to keep you away from that. And so that really what triggered us to stay away from that young. You know what I'm saying? Like, he wasn't going for it. And then we knew that if we did something crazy, Pop going to see us.

So what changes? Like, where's the mindset shift that you guys have that mindset, you're respecting him and, you know, you want to do good. Where does it go south from there where you kind of like diverge off that path? Well, he started first. So you're blaming him. It's not good to blame him. He started first. Well, me and him was in college. We was in college in North Carolina. What school? He was going to North Carolina Central. I was going to community college. I had just left

New Hampshire college on a four-year scholarship in New Hampshire me and my coach got into it I end up leaving after like two years and going down with him now What are you guys majoring in I measured an account and I measured in accounting awesome marketing. That's really interesting and minor in marketing Okay, and uh we was down there, you know, my father he gave me a job at a halfway house working in a halfway house So I left school and came back to Connecticut. He stayed in North Carolina and while in Connecticut I

One thing led to another. I started hanging with the wrong people, you know, just seeing things, not actually doing it, but just seeing it, just hanging with friends that's involved, you know. And once they got involved and I'm watching and I'm observing, eventually, like one of my friends, he got he got arrested. And he said, he said, Speedy, man, can you I need you, man. You're the only one I trust. Can you go out there and collect this money for me? And I collect some money from him.

It was like $40,000 I had to collect from him. That guy's old him and he's like, just get me a lawyer. I got him a lawyer, you know, and I said, what you want me to do with the other 20, 25,000? He said, keep it. Just put some money on my books. I never had $1,500 in my pocket. You know, I never had 15. Now here I am working, making $500 a week. He gives me 25,000 and tells me to keep it. What is he doing to get that? But I know what he's doing. So eventually I'm like,

From observing it, I started doing what he was doing. In your mind, are you like wishing you didn't know what he was doing? Exactly. That's why I say like it's cliche, but we say people, places, and things. Just hanging with certain people, hanging in certain places, and wanting certain things. And while me doing that, everything that my parents taught me was out the window. Just in a matter of seconds. In a matter of just seeing that and then trying something and it worked. Well, I thought it was working.

And just trying something and it works. So you're saying a guy that never had $1,500 that got $25,000, that $25,000 turned into $50,000 to $100,000 to $150,000.

I mean, I'm 22 years old. And so basically your whole life changes all because of who you associated with. You had a friend that asked you for a favor. For a favor. See, that's like the wild part about people's stories. That one thing. That one thing. Like for me in my story, it's like that one house party I threw that led to me throwing bigger parties, which like ultimately landed me in prison. So that one favor. And that just shows like the type of person you are.

wanting to do that favor that's like a friendship that's a that's a true friend right there and you do that and it changes your life so how does that evolve in that instance what do you start getting into now i start getting into we actually i was selling uh heroin and crack we were selling heroin and crack just right away like as soon as that yeah because like i said i was sitting there observing them i'm from the project so i see i know how things move

You know, it's not so the projects is just flooded with drugs. So I know how things move. So what I so for me just watching and knowing who he knew and I had money. Once you have money and you know certain things and you got money to work with, you can go buy drugs and you can flip it and flip it, flip it. And then you just try something and it works now.

There's no turning back now. Now it was hard to even stop. And it first starts out, okay, well, let me just get this nice car or let me buy this house. Now, once you get all that, now what you're going to do? Now you want more and more and more. And that's what happened. How much are you making a week when you first start? When I first started a week, it was a long time ago. It was...

A week, probably about $50,000 to $60,000. That's cute. Which is a lot back then. That was cute. Back then, I thought I was making some money. That's a lot for back then. No, it's not a lot. But I thought it was a lot. $50,000, $60,000 a week? People don't make that a year. That's when I first started. So this is early 2000? No. This is early 1994. 1994. And you're like 23, 24? Yeah. 22. Like 22. 22.

And just got from college and I'm making probably about 50 to 60,000 a week. And this is the first crime you ever committed? Never been to jail before. Nothing. Now, do you have like a team under you or is this just you? Yeah, I had a couple people that was my friend of my friends who knew how to do certain things. Yeah. You know, so they, yeah. So I had the money. I had the product and they...

And he did that. Is your dad asking you what, like, what the hell are you doing? If you're one of you ask that because I had so much respect for my pops that he's hearing things and he's asking like that, you know, I ain't selling no drugs. You know, I would never do nothing like that. You know, I'm not out there. And so I used to have some of my workers sit on each corner and

And when they see my father come through the projects, because he's a prominent guy in my projects, he'd come through and just ride through. They'd be like, yo, your pops is coming through. And I'd go and I'd hide. Wow. And I'd be looking out the window. And when he'd leave, I'd come out.

And I'm a grown man, but that's the respect issue that we had. I didn't want to disappoint him. And I'm sitting there lying to him. And then I got so big that I couldn't hide no more. Now, Lonnie, do you hear about his drug business while you're still away at school? Matter of fact, I came back because I had came back.

I had left school because I had ended up getting my first daughter-in-law pregnant. So, you know, we always taught, like, you know, my father was there for us, so I got to be there for my kids. So now I come back, he's this dude now, right? He...

He got cars. He got money. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, are you tripping? Like, I'm just coming back. I'm like, you tripping, man. You know, it's a pop star. That's all this. And you out there tripping like that. I used to blow on him, right? Yeah. Like, man, you tighten up, man. See it come through. But I seen all this money, right? And I'm like, I'm working at a health insurance company. I'm like, but he coming through with thousands of dollars. I'm like, paying. Paying his car note. I'm like, yo. I'm like, are you tripping, man? You know what I'm saying? There's only two ways it's going to end.

Right. We know that we was taught this. You know what I'm saying? We had uncles and stuff and family members that went through this already. Right. And as it going on, like I'm still good. Right. I'm working, whatever. My daughter born. I'm taking care of my children. But he goes to jail. He goes to jail. Yeah. I get locked up. I get caught in New York.

and I ended up going upstate New York. I went to Elmira. First they sent me to shock, I got kicked out of shock program. I ended up going to Elmira. - So the first time you're arrested, he's not involved in this drug business yet? - No. - Now, going back to that for one second, do you just like wanna not be involved with him? Like I know the money is good and whatnot, but do you wanna stay away from him

No, I never stayed away from him, but I was staying away from what he was doing. I would come out there because, you know, you got money. There's a lot of women around. So I'm like, I'm having fun with him. You know what I'm saying? I'm the little brother with, you know what I'm saying, with the brother that got the money or whatever. I'm having fun with him, but I ain't doing what he doing. I'm going to get up in the morning and go to work. Now, is your mindset you want to keep the business away from him because he's your younger brother? Absolutely. Because I didn't want my parents to have two boys out there.

out there. Yeah. You know, I got caught up, but I definitely didn't want him to get caught up. So you got arrested that first time. What happens? I got arrested. I was, I got arrested in New York City. I got caught with like, I think 250 grams of cocaine in New York. I made bond.

Couple months later, I get sentenced to one to three. I go upstate New York. That's it? One to three years? Yeah, one to three years. Now, is this before the Clinton presidency with the war on drugs and everything like that? No, this is after. This is in the 90s. This is still in the 90s? This is in the 90s. In a state case, though. This was a state case. That's a short amount of time then for that much. Yeah, it was. New York was... I seen guys get caught with more and get less time. So it was New York wasn't that bad in the 90s, like in the early... And it was powder. It was a crack. In the 90s.

Okay. You know, so yeah, I did, it was a one to three and I went, and I went to jail. Yep. Who's running your business while you're in jail? Well, when I, when I came to jail, I made bond. So I was preparing to go to jail. So when I prepared, you know me, I'm just, okay, I got one year got to do. They promised me a little six month shock program. So, uh, what I did was I stacked as much money as possible within that four or five months I was out on bond, you know, hit it. And, uh,

And went to jail. I didn't have to have nobody run it. I figured when I come back, I'll pick up where I left off. And I'm sure your dad knows by this point. Now he knows. Yeah, he had to come buy me out. What does he say to you? What does he say to me? I called him from Central Booking. I said, Dad, can you come get me? He said, where you at? It was like 3 o'clock in the morning. I said, I'm locked up in New York. He hung up on me. I called back. He said, man, leave me alone with that, man. I said, leave me alone. He hung up. I go...

If you ever been to court, I mean, jail in New York is like night court. You have night court. You're there all day. And it was the weekend. And so when I go in front of the judge, when I come out to go in front of the judge, probably like three o'clock in the morning, I see my mother and my father there. So he act like he wasn't, but he came there and they gave me a bond. And I called him. I said, listen, dad, come get me. I'm gonna give you the money back.

I made mine, gave him the money back. He had a long talk with me about, you know, and I'm like, dad, this is my last time. I'm sorry. You know, this gave him the whole spill. And, uh, did you mean what you said when you said you were done? At that time? I definitely did. So what, I mean,

When I first went to jail, I was like, this is it. I used to write them long letters while I was locked up. And, you know, because that one of three felt like for 10 years, it felt like 10 years back. Well, that's your first time. That's my first time. So one year felt like 10 years back. I mean, my first two months in federal prison felt like like looking back on it now, that was the longest fucking period of my life. Like those two months. Yeah. Just like it felt like years.

Are you guys communicating with each other while you're in prison? Yeah, he's coming to see me. Is he like saying like, I told you so you shouldn't have gotten into this? But he actually, he actually, I don't know what he's doing, but he's, so he asked me for some, some money.

They'll get what? Somebody else. He said something. He gave me some type of story. And I'm like, man. And I don't want to tell him where my money's at. He didn't want to tell me where his money was at. Because all of it is together. It's not like, okay, go get 5G's here. You know? I got over $100,000 over here saved up. And I'm waiting. I only got six months, seven months to do. I can't wait to get to my money. If I tell him, ain't no telling what's going to happen. He knows where my money's at. So I tell him where. I tell him he's giving me a spill. I say, yo, make sure you put in.

You want me to tell a story? What you want to tell? So while I'm locked up, I tell him where it's at. I got three months to go home. I don't hear from him. I'm calling, but I don't hear from him. We talk all the time. I really don't hear from him. So I'm like, man, this dude, man. I want to know where's the rest of my money at. So finally, it's my release date. And they picked me up from 100 Center Street in Manhattan. Him, my father, and my younger brother.

And I can't wait to get to him. I'm like, man, this dude, man. So they pick me up. He in a rental car. My father, you want to see, he's driving. I see two big earrings in his ear. Two big diamond earrings. They're like about $15,000 a piece, right? Oh, man. So I'm like, this is where my money going, man. Then I see a Rolex. I'm like, man, what? So, but he's, I can't say nothing because my father's in the car. So I'm just sitting in the back seat fuming, you know? So, yeah.

We get back to Connecticut. I go see my mother. See my mother, see my father, see my brother, see family members. I tell him, let's take a ride. You take a ride. He's like, just calm down. He take me motorcycling. He's like, just calm down. So he take me motorcycle shopping. Motorcycle shopping. I don't want a motorcycle. Where's my money at? First day out, he take me, buy me a motorcycle. Then he take me to his apartment and stuff.

You know, and it's money everywhere. And he throws me my money that I owe him. And then he has all this other money over there. On the floor. On the floor, everywhere. And I'm like, yo, what you, that took you a whole week to do? That was probably close to a hundred. And he laughed at me. And he said, that was today. We did this today. Wow. I said, what? So my little $60,000 a week compared to his $80,000 in one day.

was totally different. So he took your money and turned it into an empire. An empire. What's going through your mind? Like what gave you that idea? Because you were just asking him for a loan. So how do you get this idea? No, he wasn't asking me for a loan. He had other plans. I was always the thinker, right? And I seen like, I was like, are they doing it like that? I said, but if I was to do this, I already know what I would do. You know what I'm saying? But I didn't want to go there. But like things started getting tight. I don't think I had my second child coming now.

I'm like, man, I know, bro, I got this money there. I got some partners I know that could put me out. Because I didn't really know the street business like that. I mean, I've been around it, but I didn't know. But I had friends that I went to high school with and stuff like that. Like my partners, they was knee deep. I got this money and we got the respect of the project because from family. Right. So I can know I got a spot where I can move product if I want to.

So I just put two and two together, called my man up, like, yo, boom, boom, boom. I need a one, two, whatever. Show me this. Boom, boom, boom. So I learned certain things. I mean, I took some hits. It ain't like it was just I got it and everything went good. I took some hits, right? But I had enough to bounce back. You know what I'm saying? Like, I might lose money. People beat me, run off with, like, this basketball player, this college dude, he don't know what he doing. You know what I'm saying? So I took a few hits, but then I figured it out.

I thought I got scared at first. I'm like, yo, brother, kill me. I'm losing his money because I'm losing at first. Yeah, I'm saying, brother, kill me when you come home. I know you wait banking on his money. Right. He don't know I took it. I know, but, you know, I try my hand. I flip it and I get it back to him or whatever. Right. But once I once I figured it out, it was like it just went to a whole different level, like unexpectedly. Yeah.

You know, I had my man, he showed me like, he showed me what to do. He got me contacted with some connects out of the city and stuff like that. And it just went haywire. Do you think it would have been harder to do this if you didn't grow up where you grew up? Because you had like the basis to build this foundation. Definitely. Yeah, like we knew the, like the project we from, it always been like a multi-million dollar project.

I don't know what's going on today, but since we're going up, I mean, we know people that made millions of dollars in this project. Yeah. Literally. No exaggeration. So the project by itself, because it's right by the highway and things of that nature, so it always made a lot of money. You know what I'm saying? And then when...

Being that we was from there and we played basketball out there and everybody knew us and then our family had respect out there, we also had the respect out there. You know what I'm saying? So it made it easy for me to come in there, find the workers, whatever, and put everything in play. Yeah. Is your dad checking in with you to make sure you're not following his path while he's in prison? See, I'm grown. I see me like me now. My heart done got so hard now and so my desire done got so thirsty for wealth that

That I ain't even tripping on pops no more. That's the disrespect that came. This is how money changes you. I'm getting this. Pops just going to have to know. So pops, he had run. Now I just stand out there. What up, pop? We Muslim. So my father come in. He'll just ride by. He said, you know what I taught you. It just appeared that you're doing this. It just appeared that way. It's an illusion. I'm like, pop, what you mean it's an illusion, man?

I got a 740 BMW. I got this. I got that. I got houses and all this. What you mean it's an illusion? You know what I'm saying? And he said, when you forget Allah, Allah forgets you. And he'll just ride off. He must have been sick seeing you following down his path. Oh, yeah. Man, listen. Absolutely. Him and my mother. Sick. They want to take no money from us. No money. They're like, nah, we don't want that. I bought my mother a car one time and she was like, oh, that's nice. You want to do something for me? Go get a job.

I'm like, what? Here's a car. Yeah, but that's how they were. - But that just shows like the parents love for their child too, that they knew what you guys were doing, but they weren't gonna go to the level where they're like ratting you out. They're supportive, but they're not at the same time. - Exactly. - So when you got out of jail, did you have every intention of not getting back into the business? - Absolutely, I didn't for two weeks. - What you told me, you like, I'm a chill. - I said, I'm a chill. I told him, I said, I'm good. I seen all that money, but my mindset was, I just did a year and it was the hardest year I ever did in my life.

And so when he so when he was like, yo, bro, this is us. I'm like, no, I'm good. You know, he just got I just got a motorcycle. He gave me a car. I had a car and he gave me my money back. And I had and I had two kids and I'm like, man, I'm no stranger to work. I worked on my life so I can go get me a job, you know, so I was good. You know, you talk about a young kid. I got over one hundred thousand dollars, a car and, you know, and I got two kids apartment. I'm good.

And but I'm hanging with him. Like I said, we best of friends. So I'm just I'm around again and I'm seeing him collect, collect, collect, collect. And then he came. What happened was he came through in a brand new 740 BMW. He came through with rims and he came through and everybody was like, oh, and I'm sitting there like.

That night I said, you know what? I'm back. He came to me. He's like, listen, I'm back. Now the dynamics change. It flip flopped before it was he was around watching you. Now you're watching him. So how's the dynamic when you guys team up together? Who's in charge? We both, we's partners. You're partners. Yeah. I got something like that. Everything was partners. Cause you know, I got my start with his money.

Even though it wasn't what I was doing, but I took that and built this. This is ours. We're going to run it together. And I respected that at that time because whatever he was making in a day, it was split in half. So if he's making $80,000 in one day, he was making $40,000 now. So he was taking a hit there.

You know, so now, but he was trying to bring, he was like, yo, bro, what's up? And I'm like, I'm good, I'm good. He wanted to break bread with you. Yeah. Now, because of your college background with accounting and stuff, did that help your business because you're able to legitimize it in a way? Absolutely. And this is why we believe the judge gave us a lot more time than we supposedly, he felt that we were supposed to have got because he felt that we took, we took what we learned in school

and brought it to illegal business. - So how exactly did you do that? How does the accounting play into your business? What's like the inner workings of this drug empire essentially? - See, a lot of people that sell drugs, they don't have, they just sell drugs and they just see the money coming in. We knew profit margins.

We didn't want margins. If we can do this on certain days, we can make this. And in a week, this would be this. So we plan and we sat and we plan things out. All the marketing strategy. The marketing strategies make make make things look beautiful, make the colors look beautiful, make the bags look beautiful, make the name sound appeasing.

And then we were visionaries, right? I had a vision. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is just temporary. Now we're going to move into real estate. We're going to move into these things, right? Because for me, this is not going to be my life. I know what's the end of this. I know. My father embedded this in us. We done seen it. Yep.

'Cause I was only in the street, what, two years before they came and got me. - So did you have a number you wanted in your head to get out? 'Cause like a lot of the dealers I've talked to or the fraud guys, they have a number in their head. - And you never stick to that number. - You always say a number. Everybody says a number. - But what was your number? - My number, when I first started, I was like, I'm gonna get his money back and get what he got and I'm stopping. - So that didn't happen. - I told you, with me, it was a house and a car. But see, the thing is, as you get bigger,

and the money coming in, your accessibility is less. Like, you ain't around no more. Like, everything is just like a well-oiled machine. It's just running. You might just come through just to show your face and let people, like, don't play with us. You know, we still around. But you ain't even there. So it's like you making all this money, and you ain't even got to be seen.

You know, and that's how we were. What kind of drug dealers are you? Are you guys like violent or not so much because you came up from a very different background than the people that were surrounded by you? By nature, we're not. By nature, like growing up, like we weren't violent. Right. But in that game, it breeds it. You know what I'm saying? Things happen. You know what I'm saying? When you're moving that much money and you're on that type of lifestyle, you're

Things happen. You can't escape that. So you became someone you never wanted to be. Absolutely. Absolutely. When's like that first moment or dangerous situation where maybe you guys have like a realization, you're like, holy shit, this is a different game than what we grew up in.

That's what we did every day. That's wild. And the justification. We justify whatever we do. We just justify anything that happens. And it could be something minimal. We'd be like, man, he violated. And looking back, we was in the way. We was tripping. But when you actually in it, and that's why when we talk to young kids, I understand when you're in it, and we had people in our ear, but when you're in it and you're so far deep, it's hard.

And I liken that to like you see a lot of people that use drugs and you'd be like, man, that's how it was. We're getting money. People that you it was an addiction. And you'd be like, man, why he keep going back? But he's addicted to it.

You know he'd go to rehab, I'd go to jail. You know, he'd go to rehab, come back and relapse. I'd go to jail, come back and start getting money again. It's the same thing. Are you guys using yourselves or are you just strictly business? I never smoked a cigarette. We don't drink, smoke, never. None of that. Really? So you weren't influenced. It was strictly about money and business. I gamble though. You gamble. We shot a lot of dice. Oh, we got to get into that. I shot a lot of dice. I shot a lot of dice in my day. Awesome. So,

There, what, what, what's like the, like the first time that something like you guys were in a violent situation that could have ultimately affected one of you guys that could have changed like the dynamic of the business. Was there any like situations or were you guys mostly respected and no one touched you? No, no, no, no. It was, it was people that, I mean, we were respected by a lot, but it was, it was people that actually tried, you know, and, and like, you know, it's, it's, it's people that had to drop on me who, who, you know, they, they,

By the grace of God, I'm still here. You know what I'm saying? It could have went totally left. They had to drop on me. And for whatever reason, I'm still here. Yeah. You know? But the thing is, like, we had built such a team, right? And we had some men with us that people revered, they feared. Bodyguards. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? We had people that, like, don't even try them.

Because they all coming. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it was like that. So people feared that. Right. But at the same time, we still was respectable. We didn't disrespect people and just do crazy stuff unless they violate it. And then in a game like when you're on the street, somebody violates like, yo, he can't get away with that because somebody else can try. You know what I'm saying? Now, we like one or two people might have got a pass because we might have liked his mother.

Or we know his feeling, right? We don't give him a pass. But if you cross that line, like something got to happen. Now, do you think your dad realizes how powerful you two have become in this area? Yeah, he know. And he's just completely removed from the situation? Like there's no trying to stop you? As a parent, right? How my dad is, right? He removes himself from the situation, but he never removed himself from it.

giving us guidance and talking to us and trying to get us away from that. He stayed on us. Like, listen, man. I mean, every time, every chance he get, man, y'all got to tighten up. You know how this is going to end. You know how it's going to end. Every time. Like, he would never support what we did. But let me reverse that a little bit because if the police was out of pocket with us, even though we doing wrong, if they was crossing the line, he going to bat for us, though. Really? He going to bat for us.

Even though we doing wrong, but if they violate their code, he coming. And they violated plenty of times. He coming. Now at the peak, how much are you guys bringing in in money? The peak? What is it, like half a million a week? Easy? All cash. Because it's like, what, about 120 a day? Yeah. Like 40 a shift. We had three shifts. At the peak, it was like, man.

I'm glad we can get reindicted for this. And it's all just the powder? You never get into anything else? No, we had heroin and crack. Heroin and crack, that's it? Yeah. Now, did you guys have principles as drug dealers? Like, don't sell the kids or don't do this? Were there certain rules? We definitely wasn't selling the kids. You know what I'm saying? Other than that, it was fair game.

And I didn't want, like, if you see a pregnant lady, I used to tell her, I was like, because we didn't sell hand in hand. I didn't sell hand in hand. We didn't see what was going on. But I used to tell, like, the workers and stuff like that and our lieutenants and stuff, is to make sure you see about somebody pregnant, man, let her go somewhere else.

You know what I'm saying? Let it go somewhere else. Because we still had somewhat of a conscience. Now, how old are you guys by this point? Like when it's nearing the end of this empire, how old are you guys each? I'm 25. And I'm 20. So 24, 25. Yeah, I'm like 26. You're at 26. When do you first find out that they're investigating you and who exactly is investigating you? You always felt that we felt it, right? Because we know we was too big for the city.

Like, Bridgeport is small, right? I mean, as far as land-wise. And we was like, we had, like, everybody in our, I call it a team, right? In our team, they all had expensive cars. Everybody from the lieutenants and that, expensive cars, motorcycles, doing whatever. Going to strip clubs, doing all that stuff that I guess people do now, right? So we was really too big for the city. One day I seen it, right? We pulled up. My father had a food truck in the project, right? And we pull up, and I got my Beamer, right?

My man got his Range Rover. My brother got his big Expedition Eddie Bowered out. And then we got up. My other man got his Navigator. And we got all these cars parked right there. And I look. And I said, yo, we going down. He said that. I said, we going down. Yo, we too big for here. We need to be in New York or somewhere. Like, we can't have cars and stuff like this. You know what I'm saying? We too big for the city. You know what I'm saying? And that's when I knew, like, yo, something had to change. Then you felt it, though, right? But they really wasn't honest yet until...

You know that November 6 1999, right? Why didn't you get out of the game in that instant when you realized that to be honest? I was I was getting stressed out because I was cuz you know with the with the uh With the streets you start beefing and stuff, right? So things happen. I'm like, yeah, I'm tired of these little nut kids man These I'm tired. I'm about to buy a house down south in North Carolina where I went to college at move at the time doing my ex-wife and

down in North Carolina, man, we good. Raised my family. I'm telling my uncle when I was in the car, right? I'm like, yo, I'm done with the street. I'm about to move it. You know what I'm saying? So that night, when I'm telling them this, yeah, the cops was actually looking for me. They were looking for me because I got into an altercation with somebody, like domestic dispute. And they were looking for me. And they pulled him and two of my uncles over looking for me. And they found guns

invest in a car with them. The feds picked the case up after that. Picked their case up. So now I'm out by myself. So he's arrested for those? By the feds for guns. First, I made bond. He made bond. State picked it up. He got caught in the state.

They made bond, and like two, three days later, the feds came and grabbed him. And didn't get bond from that? No. And that was the last time you saw daylight at that point? That's the last time I saw daylight. And I told him, I said, yo, the feds is coming. I said, I ain't got no record, right? I'm the first time nonviolent offender. I just got caught with a gun. How I don't get a bond for a gun? So I tell him, I was like, yo, they coming. He told me that. I said, they coming. I said, man.

Clean everything up. Because what they told me was the cops told me when I put, when it, cause he pulled, they pulled me and him over and, and they arrested him again.

But it was really the feds. They was working for the feds and they arrested him and they let me go. They arrested him for loitering. So they told me he's like, no, he shouldn't have been out here. He's loitering. I'm like, why are you taking my brother for loitering? So he's telling me in the car. He's like, yo, man, it's the feds. I said, Matt, he said it's loitering. So he goes down to our little precinct or whatever and come to find out that it was a federal complaint, that he had a federal complaint for a gun charge.

And it was the feds, you know, and the dad picked up the gun. And this is where their investigation into the drug business starts, right? Yes. How do they find out to connect the guns to the drugs? They already was like invested. This pushed investigation up. So like there was another team investigating and the kind of connected the dots. Yeah, they connected, they connected the dots. But what happened was because it was him and two of my uncles. Right. So now, uh,

Whatever drugs and other illegal activity they was investigating, they chose to just leave that, just push that. We're going to indict them on all of this now. Because they was investigating for, you know, they was going to just leave us out there for a little longer. Because we had no wiretaps. We never got caught with drugs. No pictures, no money, no nothing. What's the evidence then? The evidence was we had...

Testimonial. Yeah, the judge said testimony is direct evidence. I mean, they had a few vests. Like, we get caught with vests, and they keep them in the precinct. They had some guns. That was the key evidence against me. So that's all they ever found on you guys was guns and vests? I never got caught. I never got caught with no drugs. They never found it. On us, personally, was the gun and the vest. And I could wear a vest because I didn't have no record. The vest was a nothing. It was a gun.

But what they did was any, like, if they found drugs, they say it was our brand that we sold, they started saying, they started giving us that. You know what I'm saying? This was the brand that they sold. So that was the drugs they used. Nobody, if they found it in a car or arrested somebody, they attached that to us. What about your assets? Are they seized at this point or no? So your assets were always safe? Ours was safe because he got picked up by the feds.

And when he got picked up by the feds, I was still out. And you did what you had to do. You moved things around. He was out for like five months? I was out for like about three months. I was out three, four months. About three, four months, I was out. The feds picked you up. And I knew they were coming. They picked me up like four months later. It came with a drug indictment. A drug indictment. And they came at you hard? They superseded his... Yeah, they came at us hard. And where were you when you got arrested this day? I was...

At a friend's house. Actually, they was looking for me. I was on a run. They was looking for me for a murder. Yeah. You and Lewis are both on the run. I wasn't on a run per se, but it was like they were. I heard they were looking for me for a state murder. I had absolutely nothing to do with my mind you. And and yeah.

I was going to turn myself in for that, but I wanted to see my kids first. And they got wind where I was at and they came in and they took me. They came in hard. They came in hard and took me. And in the back of my mind, I still was hoping that it was for the murder and not the feds. So the state came in with the feds, but sometimes they work together. And they take me and say, yeah, you're going to court Monday for the state. I'm like, okay.

They said, but right now we'll take you to federal court to get you a rain for drug conviction. I'm like, oh, my God. But by this point, you have all your are you guys done with the drug business, essentially? Yeah, actually, I was done probably five, six months prior to about four months prior to him even going to jail. And everything's cleaned up. You're good. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah. So it could have been a lot worse evidence wise. Had you continued to do what you were doing? Oh, no question. We didn't smile.

No question. Not outcome wise because they were going to screw you regardless, but evidence wise. Evidence wise, yes. They jumped the gun and what they relied on was people telling. So they should have watched a little bit more to build a case. And that was our whole argument.

There was no videotape of us doing anything. There was no evidence of cars, money, drugs, nothing. They just had people saying, we had this, we did this. And they worked for us. Now, are you guys communicating with each other through a lawyer or something while you're both in prison? We was together. We was together. You were in the federal holding. In a detention center. In, where's this detention center? Rhode Island. Was that Wyatt? Wyatt. So Wyatt was around in, this is the 90s.

This was 99, 2000. That's where I was because a lot of people I'll meet with, they normally have a county jail that's held in the feds. But in Connecticut, there's no- Yeah, I was in the county for the first six months for the gun. And then when they indicted us, a month later, I met them up and they sent me up to Wyatt with them.

Okay, so you guys are transported to Wyatt. So are you in the same pod? Yeah. Same cell. Same cell. Why'd they do that? My whole family. Same case and it's- Everybody. It was like 10 of us in the same block. That's interesting that they put you guys all together. All together. So they're not trying to turn you guys- Oh, they were trying to turn. They tried to turn people. So what is the logic of putting you guys all together? No, no, no. They came and the ones they felt that was weak, they came and took them out and brought them to another jail where they had contact visits and all that type stuff. And those are the guys that end up turning? Actually, they didn't.

Wow. Actually, they didn't, but they was working on him hard. So how long are you at Wyatt for and what's going on in the legal process? What are your lawyers telling you guys? Do you have a paid lawyer or public defender? We have paid lawyers. Okay. Yeah, we have paid lawyers. My lawyer, at first, I had him for my gun charge. And then when they indicted me for the drugs, he took the drug charge too.

But like right before I'm about to start trial, because they severed our case. We always want to go to trial together. They didn't want to do that because they had they had no evidence. So they want to put me as this person as a boss. They want to put him as a boss. They want to put my uncles as a boss. Right. So if they were to brought us together, it would have been chaos. So the half of us was going to trial. Then they got superseded on violence. Right. And we didn't get superseded on violence.

And the day before we had a status hearing, they removed my attorney from my case, took him off. How could they just remove the lawyer? I was sick. And I had, you know, he was an animal, right? They feared him, right? You know what I'm saying? And right, we go into a status hearing, but it was another big time drug dealer from my city that he represented. He was becoming a snitch.

You know what I'm saying? Against you. We didn't know he was going to tell against us, right? Because he really couldn't tell nothing against us. We never dealt with him. But he was making up stories. And the government knew it. We didn't know it. So they said, like, it's a conflict of interest, blah, blah, blah, this and that. So they removed my lawyer off my case. And I got severed out. And a year later, I went to trial by myself.

Yeah, so that's how that happened. And what's going on with your case? Are you on trial at the same time, just different cases? No, they superseded me and hit me with violence. They had hit me with violence. So I got hit with RICO, RICO conspiracy, murder. Vicar. Vicar, all kinds of stuff. All federal though. Yeah, all federal. And he was just on a drug, one drug on a drug count. And so they severed our cases because he couldn't go with us because of the violence. So he couldn't go with us. So he went to trial.

Before me, I actually I was three, three and a half years pre trial before I even went to trial. How does your trial turn out?

What do you mean turn out? They smashed me. You lost every count? I only had one count. You just had one count? Drug conspiracy. That's it? That's it. And you lost that, obviously you lost that one count. And the best evidence that they had against me was from somebody who testified that wasn't even part of my organization. How much time are you facing on a drug conspiracy charge? Life. It's life on that?

So you lose a trial, you go back to the detention center. How long after till you're sentenced? I lost trial in December. I got sentenced in March, I believe. And what's your sentence? Life. And you're how old? At that time, I was 27. So what's that feeling like to get sentenced to life in prison at 27 years old? For me...

Because once I lost trial, I knew I was going to get liked. So the thing is, when I lost trial, that was the emotion. Like, damn, I'm hit. I got to fight. You know what I'm saying? But by that time, I started becoming spiritual. I started getting into my religion. And I knew, like, yo, they only could give me what God's going to allow them to give me. I ain't tripping. You know what I'm saying? And I used to tell my brother that. You know what I'm saying? I was like, they can't do nothing but what God's going to allow them to do. I'm getting into my spirituality now. All the things that my father taught us.

Now we're sitting back and it's replaying. All these used to say is replaying. So now like, man, let me, my back against the wall. I got to turn to the one who will get me out of any condition. You know what I'm saying? So I started doing that. So when I started doing that, man, when they gave me the life sentence, I was cool. I just felt bad for my parents and my kids.

So I'm good because I know I'm a fight and God willing, I'm going to be out of this eventually. But my mom and my dad and my daughters was like two and four. I had three daughters. I was two was two and one was four. You know, and I know they ain't going to be with their dad for a while. What's that conversation like with your family? Like after you got life in prison? See, like my parents are strong. So my dad was like, we're going to keep fighting.

He said, don't even worry about it, son. He said, mark my word. I swear, I'll never forget this. I called home after I lost Charlie. I mean, after he gave me the life sentence. I went back to Wyatt and I called. He said, mark my word. You will not do a life sentence in prison. He said, I'm going to fight tooth and nail to make sure you don't do a life sentence in prison.

And that's what he did. Did that help keep you going? Oh, absolutely. Did you ever lose hope in like that those couple months after? Never. You just knew that whatever it takes, you're going to get out of here. Absolutely. I always felt like that. Even like when I was in prison, right? And I was, I started out at a USP Coleman in Florida. They sent me way to Florida, right? They still wanted people to tell. They sent me to Florida away from everybody. They put separations on us. So we couldn't be together. And you couldn't talk. Right. We couldn't write each other. Once I got sentenced,

We couldn't even be around each other no more the whole time in prison. Right. But when I got to Coleman, I lost what I was talking about. What was I talking about just now? They were separate. They separated you, sent you to Coleman. Yeah, they separated us and sent us to Coleman. So now I'm by myself. You know what I'm saying? But I know I got to fight. I got to fight. So I get a job in a law library hallway.

You know what I'm saying? So every day I'm in there, you know, I'm praying, I'm working, and I'm working on my case. That was my life. I had that hope. Like, yo, and dudes just said to me, like, yo, you walk around here, like, you going home tomorrow. I said, I am going home tomorrow. You know what I'm saying? Because people never knew I had a life sentence. They say, man, you out here playing basketball, you laughing. You got a life sentence? I said, yeah, man. What? What am I supposed to do? Hang it up? Nah, I ain't built like that. I ain't built like when adversity hit that I just fought with. I wasn't raised like that.

You know what I'm saying? So people are like, yo, I admire you young. I was young then. I admire you, Jit. You know what I'm saying? Like you fighting, you stood firm, man. And you walk around here like you're going home tomorrow. I said, inshallah, God willing, I'll be home tomorrow. And that mindset carried you through. All the way through. I mean, I just think it's insane that they gave a nonviolent drug offender life in prison. First time. But that was the dynamics back then too. That's what they were doing to a lot of people. So you're sitting at the USP in Coleman. What's going on with your case? Do you go to trial? Do you take a

plea deal? No, I definitely didn't take a plea deal. They hit me with some violence. They hit me with a murder. And the murder, it was the murder that they hit me with. I had a hung jury, first and foremost. We went to trial. Me and four other co-defense, we went to trial. And we had a hung jury. On everything? On everything. 33 counts hung on 33 counts. One person held out had us guilty. 11 had us innocent. One person had us guilty.

And because they fabricated a lot of violence, because this is one thing about a drug conspiracy is easy to prove a drug conspiracy, but it's hard to prove violence. It's hard. And all these dudes was come in line. They took they hit me with a murder. And I was in North Carolina at a at a family reunion, Fayetteville, North Carolina, at a family reunion.

And when it happened, when it happened, when it actually happened and I'm on videotape, I got hotel records. I got phone records. I'm literally. And how do five people come up with the same story that I grew up with? They said they seen me kill this man and I'm literally so now I'm going to trial.

And they're telling the story, telling the story. Yeah, I seen Speedy do this. I seen Speedy do that. I seen him stand over him and all that. And my lawyer is like, no further questions, Your Honor. And then I got to put my defense on. And my defense was videotape. Look where he's at. Phone records. Look where he's at. Fayetteville, North Carolina. I'm in Fayetteville. I checked in a hotel at 12 o'clock midnight in Fayetteville, North Carolina. The guy got killed one o'clock in the morning in Bridgeport, Connecticut. There's no way in the world I could have been there. Then I'm on camera. There's no way.

So now the jury is looking like, what? And so we end up getting a hung jury and they dismissed that count. They dismissed that count, took me to send us to a whole nother district, New Haven County.

And I lost on a drug count. I lost on a drug count and a racketeering count. And they gave me three life sentences. So they got rid of the violence. Because the violence was hindering their conviction. Because everybody was lying about violence. Because a lot of the times after a mistrial, they usually don't pursue it unless they really want to go after you. Exactly. So they got rid of that one count. It's easy to convict me on drugs. You know, you got 20 people coming in there and say, yeah, I sold for speedy.

It's easy, you know what I'm saying? Testimony is direct evidence in the feds. You don't have to get caught with nothing. - That's the craziest thing about the feds. Like in my scenario, I went to trial too. And one, they overcharge you. Like they stack them up. - They stack them up. - Yeah, they're never gonna put you on trial for like a couple counts in like a white collar case. And then literally my business partner went on the stand

My lawyer brought a whiteboard and counted all the times he lied, and they still convicted based off of his testimony. And you can't get it stricken from the record. You can't do anything. They could say whatever, and they could just use that against you. So you're convicted about three years after he's sentenced? I got convicted in 2003. And you haven't talked to him in all these years? No, we just write. We haven't talked. We just, like, he'll write letters and-

I had to write letters home and my mother sent it to me. And how are you feeling like to have that close knitted relationship growing up and now you're separated and you probably feel a little bit guilty that you guys are in this mess. I do. I do. I felt guilty. And especially when he when he first relieved the life sent received the life sentence. We was in Wyatt together and he went to go get sentenced. And when he but we's in different blocks at the time.

And when he, I was at the door, you know, I don't know if you, I'm at the door watching him go to his block and I'm like, yo, what'd they give you? And he just put the L up. Wow. So that was harder for me than when I received the life sentence. That's gotta be heartbreaking. Right there. And knowing you can't have that conversation. Yeah. I know it was always like exhilarating seeing guys leave for court that morning and to go to sentencing and then coming back and you just like see that look of,

of defeat on them or anything like that and to know that he got life in prison your own blood brother they was hoping I get 20 ain't that's crazy right at the middle you gonna get 20 like we go outside I go outside to wreck right because there's by that time they had separated us from the block

And I guess what a rec yard is and why, you know how you see the windows and look in the windows? And they room was right there and we'd be talking to them. How they gonna give you 20, man? You ain't got no record and nothing to give you 20. They ain't giving me no 20, man. 20 was a popular sentence. I was with a lot of guys that got 20 years that would get later commutated by Obama towards the end. And that's crazy. We was hoping we just get a number.

20, 25, 30 years for drugs. How can you hope you get a number for drugs? And that's how it is. - So your sentence, where do you go to?

I get sentenced. I blow trial. I get three life sentences. They send me to USP Lee. And where's that? That's in Virginia. Now, do you have the same mindset that Lonnie was just speaking about, about having hope or are you diverting? Definitely not. So what's your mindset? My mindset is going in there. They gave me all this time. I'm going to get more money.

So what do you get? What's prison like for you? I'm in USP Lee. I'm like, man, I'm coming in here. I still got my ears to the street. I'm coming to get some money. You know, you've been in jail before. There's more drugs in jail than there is on the street. Oh, it's wild. It's wild. So and what triggered me is, and that's why God works in mysterious ways. I'm in USP Lee and they move me and I go to a block where there's a guy that's from

My project is in there and he's doing like 27 years and he's heavenly. He's into religion real hard. And when I see him, you know, you go in a block and, you know, you see a guy, you got all these D.C. guys, Philly, New Orleans, Florida. And you see a guy from Bridgeport, Connecticut in there, one guy from Bridgeport that, you know. And I'm like and I was so happy to see him. And he moved me in his cell.

And he knew I was like we was Muslim and we was spiritual when we was younger. So he's talking to me like and I'm like, man, I'm not even on it like that. I mean, I'm trying to get this. But he stayed in my ear. And eventually I never did anything that I intended to do when I went to jail. You know, my intentions was to do all kind of stuff. But just being in that cell with him, I got back on my spirituality. And like my brother said, that's what saved me.

I used to walk around a rec. They thought they said, man, you can't have three life sentences, three life sentences because I'm playing basketball, handball. I'm going to the mosque. I'm reading, you know, playing Scrabble, playing chess, you know. So this is very early on in your prison sentence that you have like this reawakening or journey. So you go in like a young guy swinging, getting into shit you shouldn't be. And you quickly turned and quickly turn.

- So you got back to that childhood self again. - Exactly, and everything that my father was teaching us resonated. It came back and you see it. And that made the time ease. It made my time very, I can't even say easy because I had five kids and it was hard on them and my parents.

It eased the pain a little bit. Now, you're like the first people I've interviewed that went to a USP in federal prison. So I just want to touch on that aspect of it. Lonnie, what's like the sleeping arrangements like? Because I'm sure it's a lot different than a dorm room setting that I was in at a low in a camp. The sleeping arrangements. So you didn't have to experience the politics of prison. So when you in a USP is...

Pure politics, right? You have what would you call cars, right? You have a guy that's, let's say he from Florida. You got the Florida car and you have somebody who's called the shot caller, right? He's the head of the Florida car. I mean, like if something happened to keep the peace amongst the compound, like somebody violated from Florida, say somebody from D.C.,

The shot caller from D.C. would go to the shot caller from Florida and be like, listen, your man violated such and such. You know what I'm saying? Y'all need to handle that before we handle it. You know what I'm saying? We're going to take care of our own. A lot of stuff, it was politics. So the sleeping arrangements was pretty much like that unless you chose to do other, like, mean like...

Florida's going to sleep with Florida. Like, if you from Florida, I'm a bunkie with somebody from Florida. If I'm from D.C., I'm a bunkie with somebody from D.C. I'm Muslim, so I don't want nobody in my cell but a Muslim because we live a certain way, we pray, we use the bathroom a certain way. And that's how the sleeping arrangements work. Like, you know what I'm saying? Where I was at. Now, you got some people that wanted to do their own thing and they'd take anybody in their cell. But with me, I'm like, yo, if he not Muslim or he ready to conform to how I use the bathroom and things of that nature and keep my cell clean, he can't move in here.

Very segregated. Yeah. Very segregated. It's segregated. You have the whites with the whites. You have the blacks with the blacks. And you have the Mexicans with the Mexicans. Right.

and everything is segregated even the child hall you see the child hall is the same way and it's all you're celled up right it's always what's a lockdown situation is there movement are you in your cell all day what's that like you're talking about just doing time in prison yeah on a normal day yeah on a normal day oh you out you out all day yeah but you're locked in at night yeah locked in at night and it surprised me coming from Wyatt and going to the feds

It was like a resort. Yeah. Cause why? It's like a real pop. The doors at six 30, you lock in at three 30 for count. They let you back out at four o'clock and you lock in at eight 30. You never locked in out all day. You could be outside on a wreck. And then back then, I don't know when you came in, but back then the food was amazing. Yeah.

The food was amazing. You tell them how you want your eggs. Tell them how you want your eggs. Yeah, eggs to order. Yeah, eggs to order. And the commissary is good. The commissary was great. Now back to the bathroom thing for one second because I had a certain experience with this.

What is like the certain ways to use the bathroom in a cell, like proper cell etiquette? Because like in my experience, I was yelled at for not kneeling down. Like you have to kneel down on like one knee or whatever. See, like because you don't want to hear, like you in a cell with somebody, right? You don't want to hear that pissing noise.

Like, man, you know, you can sit. Like, man, I ain't trying to hear that. Bad enough you locked in with a man, right? You know what I'm saying? You don't want to hear that, right? So if you kneel, it don't splash all over the place. Or if you sit, like, I sit. You know what I'm saying? Like, as Muslim, like, you don't have to, but it's good because I don't want stuff splashing on my clothes. You know what I'm saying? And it's more, like, healthier for you, right? So we sit down and we clean ourselves. Like, we don't just shake our junk, right? Like how we was taught, make sure you shake.

you know, shake it and then, you know, urine go all over the place. You know, we sit down, we clean ourselves and, you know, and we get up and that's how we use the bathroom. So being that we have to pray in our cell a lot of times, you don't want urine all over the cell. So you got to like give certain etiquettes, man. That's how we use the bathroom. And people walk with their socks and, you know, if you walk with your socks barefoot in your cell and there's somebody pissing and then, you know, sometimes you don't finish off. Everybody in between, you put it back in, you be like, oh,

It's going down your leg. You already know everybody's experience. They be like, ah, man. So you don't want that. Now, when you guys went from higher security prisons down to lower security prisons in your journey, did you carry some of that etiquette that was at the USPs and higher security down in the lower? Like, for instance, I would meet guys that still walk to the shower with their boots on and put a chair. Yeah.

What is the logic between having your boots to the shower? Listen, I never understood that logic. Because if somebody wanted to get you, they'd wait until you get in the shower and put your flip-flops on and then go get you. So I never understood why you just walked into the shower. I didn't understand it either, but I did it. I guess this is a mindset like, if somebody tried me, I'm ready.

But once you get in the shower, they can come up in there while you're in the shower. You can't lock the shower. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But I did it because in a pen, that's what you do, right? And what do you do? Like you put the chair in front of the shower? You put the chair in front of the shower. You know what I mean? You put the chair in front of the shower. I would see guys do that. And you go to the shower with your knife. So you had like a steel rod or something? Oh, absolutely. That's wild. Listen, when I first got to Coleman, it scared me to death. I've never been to jail before in a prison. I ain't going to say it scared me to death because it ain't that soft about me. You know what I'm saying? But now...

They have something what you call like a, what's that, the captain's meeting before they let you to the compound? Captain's review. Captain's review. So I go in there and they telling me, they see that I ain't never been to jail before and I got all this time. I said, oh yeah. They said, you know, you in the penitentiary now. You ain't got your family here. You know, they read all your PSI. You ain't got no guns in here. You better get your knife. The captain tells me this. He said, because if you step on somebody's shoes here or you disrespect somebody, they're going to butcher you. I advise you to get your knife.

Say less. I went right to, I got up there, found some people, I found a Muslim. I need me a knife. Now, are you seeing violence regularly in these penitentiaries? I did. I was in a penitentiary for 12 years. I'm sure there's a lot of like sex offender related stuff that the guys that do get sentenced.

to their, like, are they allowed to walk the compound is what I'm saying? No, not at all. Not in a penitentiary. So how does that work? Now you find out later on that, yo, this dude, but sex offenders are like child molesters and stuff like that. Yeah, so like, I've built like a strong social media following because we'll make jokes that I look like a sex offender because I have the glasses and whatnot. So they say like, you didn't do real time, you wouldn't last a day in the pen. Where do they put these sex offenders then? Because there are ones that get life. They're not going to these USPs. So they got these, what do they call them? Like,

Like cheese factories and things of that nature. Yeah, they got... Like the one in Arizona. Yeah, for those. They got certain gels. They got certain gels where they put them and they're over there. People that told, people, child molesters, they got certain gels that they put them there. And some escape. Some come there and act like they big and tough and they act like... And then you find out later that they was...

- A child molester. - Nobody was more harder on like a child molesters than that, than the white boys. - Than the white boys. - They didn't play.

Now, if you think like if I came to USP, how do you think I would fare? Like just by looking at it. No question. They would have made you would have had to get your paperwork ASAP. All right. So let's talk paperwork. Oh, by the way, this is paperwork. So whatever me and my brother say can be substantiated and verified right here. So I brought my paperwork. So is my PSR, my pre-sentence report and my sentencing transcripts and my docket sheet. Yeah.

I love you guys. We're going to be friends, man. So how does paperwork checking work at the USP? What was like your first experience with that? Well, they never, when I got the USP Lee and it was guys from Connecticut, they just told me, it was like, listen, man, we know your case. Cause they knew my case. I had a big case out of Connecticut. So, but I'm like,

My paperwork could be here. They was like, nah, we don't got it. I said, no, my paperwork can be here. So my paperwork came and they called a little meeting and I showed them my PSR, my PSR and my, um, sentencing transcripts.

And, you know, they go over, you get a guy who's at that time, he's the paperwork checker and he checks your paperwork and he's like, okay, he's good. I'm like, I know I'm good, you know? So, and that's how that works. Do you have a certain amount of time to show it? Where, I mean, years later when, yeah, it was, we had 30 days, Connecticut car.

If you was from Connecticut or a tri-state, you had 30 days to show your paperwork. And if it didn't check out, it's pack your shit, go to the shoe. You got to get out of here. Unless you get an extension, unless you show proof that it's on its way. Okay. Did you guys ever do time in the shoe during your sentence? Yeah, for months. Months, yeah. Yeah. What was the longest you guys spent in the shoe? I did eight months. I did nine. And what is this for? It was for investigation. Okay.

Just for whatever? No, it was a brawl. It was a fight. This is before you reformed in prison. No, I reformed, but I just had, I reformed, but I mean, attitude problem. Yeah, attitude problem. I wouldn't be able to tell now. No, I like sports. Okay. So I like to play basketball. You already know. And then when you get to jail and when you get there, it's like, it's different cultures. So you have certain people that invite you to their private, but where I'm from, you don't do that.

And there's certain people from different places. There's no problem for them to invite you to their private parts. They sex play. And they sex play. You've been there. You know what I'm saying? You know how they say. So when they, you know, and they say, yo, you, and they invite you to their private parts, that's automatic go. I don't care who you with. I don't care who you are. I don't care. Y'all gonna have to beat me down. If you play with me like that, it's automatic on site. There's three things you can't do. You can't invite no man to your private parts. You can't call him no homosexual in prison, like if you're not.

And you can't say he's a rat if he's not. That's violent. I learned that very quickly because where I come from, the way we grew up, it was casual for my friends to say, yo, suck my dick or whatever. It's crazy. That's this new era. That's what they do now.

I see that all the time with these kids. They're like, you're a bitch. Listen, that just as a joke. So I'm playing a card game one day and I said that and the dude checked me, got up because he came from a medium. He's like, dude, I know you're brand new here, but if you say that, you're going to get yourself fucking hurt. No. If you say that? Oh, man. I literally had no idea because that was just like normal. No, for real. I done seen people lose their life in prison.

for what come out of their mouth. No joke, lose their life. People that say this dude is a rat and the dude wasn't a rat and he kept spreading stuff like that or whatever, you know what I'm saying? And I seen him, the dude lose his life like that. - Now commissary food, do you guys have microwaves or not at the penitentiaries? - Penitentiary, when we first came in, they had microwaves. They started taking them like, yeah, after like my 15th year. No, where I was, I was in Raybrook in 2015.

Yeah, we still have microwaves. Now, how do you guys cook food without the microwave for commissary? Just hot water. They have the hot water dispenser. And you have stingers. Yeah.

Did you ever use a stinger? I've seen the guys use it to make alcohol. Oh, to make the hooch. To make the hooch. The white lightning. So you know what white lightning is? Yeah. Okay, so I posted a TikTok video about how they used honey to make white lightning. And everyone said that's not how you make it. Any type of sugar, yeah. Can you just explain that process? I don't know how to make it.

But they do use honey They use honey They use any sugar And they boil it down They boil it down Thank you I don't know That's why they stopped Selling sugar Yeah In the prisons Because they was making You couldn't even buy Everything was sugar free We used to get Jolly Ranchers Melt them down Yeah I remember the first time I went to the bathroom At Fort Dix

because there are these old beat-up bathrooms, and the Mexicans are removing the bricks. They have a rope, and they're pulling out this big bag of food, and it's all covered in mold. This is what people are drinking. Straight back to Syria. I was in a place where they sell sugar-free in Canaan.

it would they show sugar-free everything so a guy come from say uh another jail and have jolly ranchers he would sell a bag of jolly ranchers for 15 that's crazy that's what a bag of jolly ranchers went for 15 three books yeah three books three books now um hustles lonnie what's your present hustle my present hustle is that i you know i'm a hustler so i had i had i had stores

Oh, you're the store guy. I was the store guy. So how does that process work being the commissary guy? And I was, no, I wasn't the commissary guy. Oh, you're the store. I had a store. So what's the difference between the commissary guy and the store guy? You know, you buy stuff from the commissary and you do a markup in your store, in your cell, right? And also I worked in the kitchen on Common Fair, right? Like with the Jewish meals, the Common Fair, people that take Common Fair. Yeah. So now, you know,

when you got a good, good relationship with the, uh, kitchen supervisor or whatever, they let you take bell peppers or tuna that they had on there, honey buns. And then you hustle like that and you sell it to people that's on a compound that can't get it. But most of my money came from like my, my store, my prison store. Yeah, I had like one of the biggest stores on a compound. And how much money are you making a week from this? Uh,

I mean, jail-wise, probably like $200 a week. Are you able to convert that into physical cash? Oh, absolutely, because you get stamps. And people like to gamble. I didn't gamble. People like to gamble. I stopped gambling once I went to prison. So they'd be like, yo, how many books of stamps you got? I said, I got about 100 books of stamps. I said, $500. I'll get you for $350. They sent me $350, you know what I'm saying, to my books. I sent it home.

to my family and they'd put it on my books. Now, what's the currency on the compound back in the 90s? Is it the mackerel pouch? Where I was at, it was stamps. Just stamps. So when, this is interesting, when did it become like the mackerel through your... Different places do different things. Because when I went to...

Edgefield, South Carolina, it was macro. Okay. That's interesting. I'm trying to find out where the origination of that came from. You can make the money anything. That's what Joe does. Because the ticket man, the gambling man, he controls the comp. And say whatever. So Lyle, what was your prison hustle? My prison hustle was, I had two. I owned a store. I owned a store like my brother. I had a couple of them. And I worked in a butcher shop for years.

So I was in charge and we had microwaves. So I was in charge. I had all the raw meat. Wow. Pause. I had all that. I had all, I had all the raw products, uh,

So, you know, and Italians, you know, they like they don't like to go to chow. They big. They like to cook their meatballs on the weekend, football and all that type stuff. So, you know, I bring them all the ground beef, the steaks, raw steaks, and they cook the turkey, you know. Yeah. So, you know, it was crazy to see how you see how to cultivate and as we couldn't, we haven't spoken.

But basically, we're doing the same hustle. Same thing. I didn't even know he was doing this until he came, until we was able to talk. It's like that spiritual connection. We're like, yo, we're going to find a way how to get it. How to get money, yeah. What's your relationship like with your kids as they're getting older? When do they realize their dads are spending life in prison? What's that like a conversation? In the beginning, we kept it from like, I was in school. I was in college, right? So my daughters come see me, especially at Wyatt. I'm in college. We don't like daddy college no more. You can't even touch him, right? Because you got the glass up and all that.

And then as they started getting older, you know what I'm saying? They're like, Dad, you ain't in school now. You've been in school like the last six years. What are you talking about? They about 10, 11 now, right? And then I just sat down and told them, like, you know, I'm in prison. I didn't tell them I had life.

I had a little knucklehead cousin who's in everybody's business. You're about the age who knew everything. Going to tell my daughters that I had a life sentence because they never knew how much time I had. He's like, Dad, when you come on? I'll be soon. Was it hard for your dad to be this community figure and have both of his sons in the news spending life in prison? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I know. And we used to talk all the time, you know, and a lot of it was he had backlash, right?

Because, you know, what his you know, and it was a lot of stuff that was false about me and my was written false about me and my brother. And a lot of it had to do with just being a smack in the face to him towards him because he was such an activist and he always stood behind us. You know, he didn't agree with what we did.

You know, and he always told us, listen here, man, you're going to do you're going to do time. He always agreed that we should do some time. He just didn't agree with how much time we got. He know we wasn't bad kids. We made some mistakes and they act like the mistakes we made wasn't redeemable. And so that's what his thing was. Come on, man. Like 10 years. I mean, people getting 15, 20 years for killing people, murder. My kids first time going to jail and you giving them a life sentence for drugs that you don't have from testimony.

You know, it was unfair. So he fought for us in that aspect, you know, and a lot of it, a lot of the stuff was done. I feel a lot of stuff that happened to us was done, you know, as a smack in the face towards him. How many years go by until you guys get your first glimmer of hope that there could be something other than life in prison for you? Well, with me, it, with me, I exhausted all my pills, almost all my pills, but I always,

Kept hope. And I just put frivolous things in court. Anything that came out, I'd be like, I'm putting it in just to have the fight. And it was February 2019. We was on lockdown. I was in Gilmer and they slid a letter under my door as a public defender. What was her name? Kelly. Kelly Barrett. Kelly Barrett. They said, you potentially can get some type of relief off the new first step. First step back.

And I'm like, we are locked down. So I'm getting a little excited, but I've been shot down so many times. I'm like, whatever, man, you know. So we come off lockdown and I actually called them. I call my parents first. I'm like, man, they said she's like, we'll call him. So I call him. I say, yeah, I want you to do my do my pill or whatever. Yeah. She said, OK. She said, I can't promise you anything. So she was optimistic about everything, you know. So I asked my mother, I said, did.

Did LT get his? She was like, no, not yet. Because I think I was one of the first ones they reached out to.

And then eventually they reached out. I guess either you reached out to them or they reached out to you. She sent me the letter and I ripped it up. Because you were just done with it. I said, man, I'll get mine a different way. What year is this for you guys? 2019. But like how many years in your sentence? I had 19 years in. We had 19 years. A little over 19. A little over 19 years. Okay. And you got this. When does like the hope come? Well, I hear Lewis had texted me.

You're communicating with Louis? Yeah, yeah. Really? Because me and him was in Raybrook together. Wow, that's awesome. So Louis is texting me all the time. He's like, yo, I got something for you. I'm like, he always just talking. He's a good talker. So he said, yo, it's a new law. It's a new law coming out, man. I'm working on it. You working on a new law. He's free. He's free. He went home, I think, in 2013, 14 from Raybrook. We was in Raybrook together. Okay. And yeah, so he's out there. And yeah, then it started gaining momentum.

Then I see Van Jones on TV and they're talking about it. But I'm like, I got three life sentences, you know, so what are they going to do for me? So right at that point, I'm saying, well, what if they just give me like 35 years and I get a number? I'm banking. That's all I wanted was 30, 35 years so I could see something like be home before I'm 55, 60 years old. That's what I was hoping. And then my brother go. He went crazy.

In front of the judge first. No, he went second. I had another co-defendant went first. This is for resentencing? They remanded us back to court for resentencing. Because of this new law that passed? The new law. Okay. So who gets resentenced first? Do you do? I do. And what do you get sentenced to? I got released from court. Right then and there? Right from court. So you went to court from prison not knowing... You were planning on coming back that day. Yeah, I didn't... Listen, backtrack a little bit. When I got the letter, I ripped it up, right? The lawyer calls my counselor.

I have a legal call and she's telling me about the first day. I'm like, yeah, all right. Right. And then she tell me, I said, yeah, I said, but I got because it's basically about crack. She said, yeah, I said, but I got a lot of heroin in my case. He said, yeah, but don't worry about that. Right. Because every time we put motions in, they'd be like, yeah, you went when Obama signed the crack law. Yeah, it applies to you. But the amount of heroin y'all were selling is insane.

Still going to get a life sentence. So that's my thought. I'm like, yeah, all right. This ain't his crack law or whatever, but I got to hear one too. She's like, I'm telling you, this is going to help you. I'm going to get you out. This is what she tell me. She said, I'm going to try my best to get you out. So they strategically plan. So all my co-defendants is getting these letters now because it might apply to us. But they strategically plan to do me first.

Because I'm the easiest one. I don't have no violence. I don't have no past. And my prison record is impeccable, right? Yeah. You know, I was like the model prisoner. I did a lot of programs. You know, I did all this stuff, right? And so I go to court and we have a new judge, man. Listen, good thing we had a new judge. You know what I'm saying? And the prosecution going hard because she know if they give it to me that everybody comes home. So they're fighting against this. Oh, they going super hard. I thought like I was a terrorist or something.

She, man, she was saying stuff. I'm like, yo, are you serious? I've been in 20 years. Yeah. But she was going so hard, right? And I have to cut you off. This is the same prosecutor from 20 years ago. The same one. The same prosecutor. That's usually not normal. The male retired, but she was the female. She was the female. Okay. And this is back, you're back in Connecticut. Yeah, I'm back in Connecticut. So, okay, you're back in Connecticut. You go to this hearing. Yeah. But you don't think anything of it. No, I'm just hoping, like, you know, I said maybe, maybe not right.

But all my family in there, you know what I'm saying? They got Family Matter shirts on, right? All dressed in black, right? So it's courthouse packed, right? And there's a black judge now, right? Used to be in the NAACP. So he knows the unfairness. He's a fair judge, you know? So my lawyer making an argument. I speak, you know what I'm saying? Tell him, like, you know, my plans and what to do if I'm able to get out, you know what I'm saying? And he have a recess. Lewis and

And V and Jones team is there. Really? The first step team. Yeah. Yeah, they there. The first step back team that passed the bill, they there with the cameras and everything. Wow. Because it was like, yo, you coming home, right? Yeah. Oh my God, my face with that. You know what I'm saying? I don't want that hope. You know what I'm saying? My parents been hearing that for the last 20 years, right? So the judge come back and give me a media release. I'm sending you the time, sir. And what's that feeling like going through your head? I just sat there, right? And just like tears just started coming out.

You know what I'm saying? Like, yo, all the work that we had to put in, all the money that was spent. Right. And this is and I thought about, you know, this is the mercy of God. Right. Because like he let me know, like your money couldn't get you out. Your lawyers couldn't get you out. I sent you a public defender. You know what I'm saying? That out of nowhere. And you got released from prison.

I saw all of them. I'm just sitting there. I'm just started crying. My lawyer hugged me. Right. She put her hand on me and I said, thank you, man. Then they sent me to put me in the back. My little brother ran. My little brother had to change the clothes for me.

Little tight stuff they wear now. And I walk out of the courtroom and there's everybody. He got on Facebook Live, so everybody that knew me. The city showed love. They all came to see me. It's a beautiful thing. And if you watch the First Step movie, the First Step documentary, at the end, I'm the first one walking out. That's awesome. I'm on the cover of it. He's the poster boy for the First Step movie. Because you're one of the first people to get ready. He's literally on when

If you go on Amazon Prime and you put your first step movie. I heard that came out recently, right? Okay, that's with Lewis and them. My picture is on it. His picture. Walking out of the courtroom. Walking out of the courtroom. I can't imagine what that feeling's like to go into that courtroom knowing that you're spending the rest of your life in prison and to get out as a free man. And the thing is, me and him was scheduled, it was like a day apart to get resentenced. So your sentencing was the next day. But they postponed my date. So now I'm in Brooklyn.

Coming from Gilmore, I'm in Brooklyn. Worst place ever. And I find out he gets released because I'm on my way to Wyatt and he gets released. And I was so happy. It was like a relief for me. How did you find out? That he got relief? Yeah. I called home. When I called, I called my brother, my younger brother. He's like, he home. And I said, I was like, yes, man. Yes. That's awesome. I'm still, I'm like, okay. He had gave his time back and had 27 years. He didn't have a life sentence then. He had 27 years with Obama. Was it Obama? Yeah.

Or it was one of them laws that came back, he got 27. I still had three life sentences. Oh, so he was already off of life by the time this came through. Yeah, he had three life sentences. And this was another re-sentencing. Right, it's another re-sentencing. So you couldn't get anything under Obama's new laws or anything? I had three. They shot me down. The same thing they gave him, 27 years, because I had violence. Yeah. I had RICO and RICO conspiracy. So I had three life sentences. So...

Was that at the end of Obama's term when he got commutated down to 27? No, this was 08. Oh, this was 08. While he was in. He was still in. Was it fierce anything yet? I don't know. I can't remember. So then what happens to you after? What happens to me? I go back to where he just got resentenced. I go in front of the same judge and he tells me,

Okay, I'm gonna decide. It sends me back to Wyatt. He don't let me out like he lets him out. He didn't let you know that day? No. So now I'm like, ah. So now I had two other co-defendants that went like a couple days after me, right? He told him the same thing. So we're all in Wyatt. So about a month and some change goes by. I'm like, man, just please, just give me 30 years. And somebody sent word that my two co-defendants were leaving. They got immediate release on a Friday afternoon. And I'm like, yo, what about me?

And they was like, nah, not yet. You ain't heard. I was like, oh. That's got to be a dreadful thing. And they went to court after me. They went to court after me and they getting released before me. So this was on a Friday. So Monday, I'm sitting there playing spades and I'm looking at the counselor's office. Every time the phone ring, I'm looking. I'm looking. Nothing. So about four o'clock in the afternoon, nothing.

It was lock in time. I work out. I come out. I'm taking a shower. The CEO called me. He said, yo, your lawyer said call her. It's very important. So now mind you, the whole block knows what I'm waiting for. They all stop what they're doing. Now I'm nervous. My hands are shaking. I go sit down on the phone. Everybody crowds around me and why? And I call and I can't remember my lawyer's number. So I call my wife. So I dial my wife number and she said immediate release. Right. I'm like, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up. She said immediate release.

She said, it just came down. You got a media release. So everybody's like, what is the verdict? And I put my thumbs up and everybody jumped up. I told you he was gone. We had a big party that night and all that. And yeah, and I ended up coming home. And it was funny because I dreamed that day. I dreamed of that day so many times that before I went to bed that night, actually, I wasn't sleeping, but I kept dozing off. I wrote on a piece of paper. Yeah, that is true. And I put it on a wall.

So now when I dozed off and I had my eyes closed, I said, please. And I peeked open, my eyes opened up and on the wall I said, yeah, this is true. And I'm like, yeah, five o'clock in the morning, he popped them doors and I went home. So you get released from prison, you go home. What's that first reuniting like between you two? Oh, you didn't send him the video? Oh no, he don't have the video. Oh man, you guys are hiding the goods from me. You gotta send the video. You gotta send the video. But they released me and-

I was supposed to go to the courtroom that he was released from right while I'm on the van from the jail. But they rerouted me and sent me to New Haven County because it was too many people out there and all that. So I come home.

They have a party for me that night. He's there? No, he's living in North Carolina. He lives in North Carolina. So I talked to him. He's like, man, my probation officer wouldn't let me come down, but I'm going to see you. You know, I'm going to see you. Hopefully I see you soon. You know, we talk and he happy that I'm home and all that.

So they threw a party for me, like a get-together. And I'm in there and I'm eating, like all my family, friends, my kids, everybody. And I hear all this ruckus at the door. And everybody looking at me and they looking at the door. And I'm like, what are they doing? What's going on? And it's him. So we start walking towards each other.

And we just, I mean, and we just start crying. I'm about to break down now. Yeah, it was crazy because I haven't seen him in, I haven't seen my brother in 18 years. And how old are you guys each at this point in time when this happens? I was 45. I was 47.

I was 47, 48, 47. And he was 45. 20 years later. 20 years later. But we ain't seen each other in 18. We ain't seen each other in 18 years. What's the first words you guys say? Like after your moment, after you guys are crying and you hug each other, what's the first word? I don't even remember. I just hugged him, man. It's like all that. Only thing I do is I just look at the video. Cause I don't even remember like the video. I'm like, I did that. I was crying like that. Cause it shows me like boohooing like I'm a baby. And I don't remember all of that. Cause I was just so caught up in the moment.

You know what I'm saying? Because you're talking about like your best friend growing up, not just my brother, my best friend growing up.

And to not be around him for 18 years and just we corresponded. We had finally got email correspondence because we was. Yeah, the prosecutor allowed us to do that. Allowed us to get email correspondence, you know. So, yeah, but it's the first time I'm seeing him. Do you think that moment solidified like even more for you guys that you weren't going to ever go back to what you were doing before? Oh, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Yes. But I mean, even before that, but we knew like, listen, I'm not putting my parents or my kids behind.

Ever through this. You know what I'm saying? And that's what we did. Like, we came home, we joined, and then looked back. Do you think your kids had a hard time growing up at school with their fathers away? Like, getting teased, made fun of, anything like that? I don't think they got teased, but I just think they just, just the lack of having that father figure there. Yeah. They all lacked that.

You know what I'm saying? And I was there as much. Me and my daughters have a beautiful relationship. I have three daughters. We have a beautiful relationship now. And I always try to be in there. Like, I would call them all the time. And I had a hustle. So if they needed things, right, I would send them money. Yeah. They're like, yo, dad's taking care of me from prison. Like, they can never say anything bad about their father. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? I made it happen. I don't think the outside world really realizes that. You could use your commissary account like a bank. You could send those checks. You could do all this stuff. Because you have no overhead in there. You don't have light bill.

You don't have, if you don't, you don't really have a food bill if you just eat three. And then we didn't have no habits. We didn't drink. I didn't drink or smoke, gamble or none of that. We had no habits. So we, everything was profit for us. Yeah. What was like the hardest things to reintegrate into when you guys got out after all these years? Technology. Yeah. Social media technology. That's it. I still don't know how to use my phone. And I got an i10. An iPhone. An iPhone. I got an i10. You're a few years behind. This is 10. Game up, man. i10. You got four bills.

Man, I'm scared to get a 13 or 14 because it might be too complicated. What about like relationships and intimacy and things like that? To go that long without that, like I know how I felt after just a measly three years. What's it like for you guys? We're shot. Yeah. We're burnt. We look normal, right? And my wife would tell you like, listen, like far as like, yo, the intimacy, like you so used to like sleeping by yourself for 20 years. So like it's not normal for us to be around like our spouse or whatever and just like touch her.

You know what I'm saying? Because it was just me for 20 years. That's not normal. Like we were laying in bed. Right. And he tell me the same story. When I first came home, I lay in a bed with my wife. Right. And I stay in a little corner. She's like, why are you won't touch me? Like, oh, my bad. But that's just it just it was embedded in you. Like, you don't mean nothing by it, but it's just that you talking about they will never understand if you you do 20 years, you live in a certain way with another man in a cell.

The affection, you're not showing another man affection. It's just you for 20 years and you're sleeping in a twin size bed and you try to sleep against the wall because the wall is nice and cool and all that. And I'm used to that. My wife used to

say I was crazy because at 3.30 I had to go home and take a nap because that was count time for years and I needed a nap if I didn't get my 3.30 nap because I took my nap every day at count time yeah yeah and I'd be irritable but I'm okay now but that's that's it messed you up Joe messed you up yeah I mean I just I

you guys know I only did a couple of years, but like, I feel like there's some scenarios where I don't even like to be touched or I don't like to be like, I'm very like, I won't even like shower really in front of someone. Like, I'm just like, it's very weird. And those are weird. Yeah. Certain things just like going barefoot anywhere.

or just like changing in front of people. Like I was at the airport last weekend, like back in the day before prison, I'd be happy to change in front of someone, but it just wasn't normal to do in prison. So just like things like that. But I think the touching thing is probably one of the biggest things and like interacting with like,

professionals that are like counselors or whatever because it's like that dynamic that when you're in prison you don't it's just a different relationship like if i'm going to a doctor or something it's like so much different on the free world than it is dealing with them like inside prison and another big thing i know we both shared is it's like empathy right i don't have it

Because we've been through so much, going through what we went through in prison. Like, yo, you had to suck it up. You couldn't show no sign of weakness. That's a sign of weakness in prison. Like, yo, man, lay down and do your time, man.

and we ain't trying to hear that you know what i'm saying so you built that like whatever somebody going through ain't tomorrow gonna be a better day that ain't about nothing like what else was so many family members passed away and we went through a lot while we was in like my wife just passed away i'm sorry yeah she did time she passed away a year and a half about two years ago and she did the whole bid with me she did a whole she did 15 years with me in jail and when i come home and i was home a year and a half

And she and she had stage four cancer since 2013, 2013, 2014. And she did the whole bid with me. And she she held on strong until I got home. And after a year and a half, I was home. She passed away. So it was like, you know, is is is you build up this this tough guy relationship.

while you're in, like, not tough guy image, but it's hard for you to. You become hard. Yeah, you become hard because I've seen my grandparents die. I had three of my grandparents die who I was very close to.

And they all died. - Our uncle that was our code offender passed away. - Yeah, one of my uncles, he passed away. He was my code offender. He passed away in prison. So it become, you become cold. - You're surrounded by like-- - Yeah, so it's like you gotta suck it up. - Yeah, because what you gonna do? Walk around the yard moping all day. So it's like, you know, you gotta put it in the back. - Does your past, does her passing

make you more motivated now because she was there for you that whole time? She was my biggest supporter. She was my biggest supporter. She was my backbone. She was my everything. So exactly. Everything I do is because of her. I didn't know because we used to keep money. We never kept money in banks.

We kept putting safes all over the place. You know what I'm saying? You guys still dig it up? I didn't have credit cards. When we went and bought cars, we bought cars with cash or we went through somebody else to get them. You know what I'm saying? So when I came home, I didn't know how to pay bills. And lucky COVID, fortunate that COVID was. So now she sat down and she taught me how to pay bills. She taught me how to, she helped me open my bank account. She taught me all the little things that,

You know, y'all, everybody been doing, you know, for years. I learned like maybe in like three, four months during COVID. And yeah, so she. Everything changed, digital banking and all that. Everything. We didn't have that. I didn't know how to deposit a check online. Yeah. From your phone, right? From your phone. I mean, from your phone. What are like some habits that have stuck with you guys since prison coming out and that you're using now in the real world? Discipline. Yeah.

Discipline and focus. You learned that in jail you had to be disciplined in what you are, whether it was your religion or whatever you believed in, and your focus. We had plans to focus on getting out of prison and doing things once we get out. So that discipline and focus still remain.

Yeah. What about things like making your bed? I make my bed a certain way from the blanket at the end, the white blanket. He brings shower shoes to the shower in the house. I don't do that, man. But I did get in the shower with my boxers on a couple of times. Yeah. So at the USP, you wash your boxers in the shower? Yeah, sometimes. What's the logic behind that? Because-

you don't want to get jock itch from the you know you don't you put your stuff in net bags and they wash you with a thousand other inmates you ain't trying to wash your underwear with yeah you've been up here where they don't have washers and dryers the ones i've been to yeah i had a washers and dryers yeah i paid a guy three macros we had them at first we had them at first but then they stopped they stopped the washers and dryers they stopped the microwaves they stopped all that so now you wash it you wash your your boxers and uh

in the shower. So you guys got home three years ago now, four years ago. I love that you guys like came full circle. You started together. You stayed tough. You never like went against each other. You guys did the time you came out and now you're building a business again.

So Lyle, what's your message to someone that maybe came from the same background and was never expecting to get into crime but found themselves making that decision to do it? What would you tell that person? Tell that person what we always say. Learn from those that came before you what to do and what not to do. You've seen what I did. You've seen all the money, the cars, and you've seen where it landed me.

Take somebody from your high school that was a accountant or a banker and see where they're at. So you learn from me and you learn from them. And then you make a conscious decision. That's it. It's easy. Life is easy. As long as you learn from those that came before you, everything is. But when you you neglect to look at the signs of what happened and you just look at what that guy had. Like there's a lot of kids that's in the street that they hear stories about me and they be like, man, I'm like, no, it wasn't about nothing.

I said, yeah, I had all that money. But in the first three years I was in prison, I was broke. I was calling my parents for commissary money, millions of dollars. You talk about the first three years. You know, got it. The feds got it. My lawyers got it. Bonds got it. Bondman got it. So don't follow me. I did 20 years. You want to do 20 years? You know, so I've said to stand straight and narrow. Those guys that I went to school with, that's man, they so well off and they just gradually change.

And they used to look at me like, man, you got a nice car. And they was in their little hoopty. I get out 20 years later, now they in mansions. You understand what I'm saying? So learn from those that came before you. It's like the kids that want to get into the streets, that know us. They be like, man, y'all legends. And I be like, a legend in what?

Are you guys cautious of letting your kids watch shows like Power or BMF or any of those shows that kind of like idolize those characters? Yeah, all our kids is grown. So even if they were watching it, would you condemn them? I can't even tell them they don't watch it. Yeah. No, but like the thing is like, you know, like me and my daughters have conversations and they know like, you know what I'm saying? All right, that's what it is. But because see a lot of the movies, right? Their show...

all this right all this glamour all this the wealth whatever whatever the parties and the women and this but it don't show they just show him getting arrested then it's the end of the movie they don't show your success story after and they don't show what you went through after all that a lot of times in the movie he did all that then he get killed oh but all he remember is the shine he was doing they don't show the years in jail

The years of people dying, the years of people leaving you, people betraying you, it don't show none of that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? In the movie. So all they see is like, oh, yeah, he had this in the movie, boom, boom, boom. Then it goes off. Or he got arrested and it goes off. No, show what happened.

Show like, yo, yeah, he was married and his wife had five dudes around his kid. I ain't talking about my situation. I'm just saying in general. He had five dudes around his daughter. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. His son calling three men daddy and all this. Show all that what you're going through. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So Lonnie, if you could look at your 20-year-old self right now in the mirror, what would you say to that person? What's your advice to get him to not make the choices that he was about to make? Being that...

We didn't know the consequences, but what I can tell them now is what my father always told us. Like, you know what I'm saying? That ain't about nothing. In the end, you're going to lose. Like my brother said, look at those that came before you. Everybody that was doing this and doing that 10 years ago or 15 years ago, where are they?

Like in the Quran, it says, look at the nations that came before you and see how they ended up. I mean, from the evil that it was doing. Every evil that we did or somebody did 15, 20 years ago, where they at? So just look at it. If you're going to follow that same path, what makes you think your destiny is going to be any different? Yeah. It's not going to happen. So I always tell them, you already know. You've seen. We had uncles and stuff like that that did this and went to prison multiple times. But yet we thought we could do something different.

There's no right way in doing the wrong thing. And that's what we thought. Yeah, let's go. Long as we don't touch no drugs, long as we don't do this, long as we don't do that, we good. Come a different way.

What's your relationship like with your father now? Amazing. Yeah. Listen, he's living his best life now. He's at peace. We got his boys home, all three of us back together. We got multiple businesses, you know what I'm saying, family business, and we doing what we supposed to do. You know what I'm saying? We in the community, we got a nonprofit foundation that he started 30 years ago that we taking over now along with my little brother who's the president of it, helping the youth not make the choices that we made. So we doing a lot of things now and he's loving it. Like he's like,

He's telling me, I don't know if you know the story of Jacob in the Bible and in the Quran, when he lost his family and God restored back his family to him. He said, I feel like Jacob, I could die peacefully now. That's how he felt. If you could take everything back, would you? Or do you think that it was good to bring you to where you guys are now? The thing is, we had to go through this. You know what I'm saying? Because not even so much just spiritually where we're at and mentally where we're at. I feel we had to go through this to be where we're at now.

I mean, it was part of the plan. Yeah. Well, Lonnie Lyle, thank you guys so much for coming on the show today. It was a real pleasure. I'm really excited to get to know you guys more and build a relationship with you guys. You guys, Lewis, everyone we bring on is great. And you guys are just awesome, man. Thank you. Yeah, you guys are really doing good. I've been watching some of your stuff and reading the articles and stuff, and I'm excited to see you.

where it goes in the future. Where can people find you at and stuff now? Or do you guys have a website for what you got going on or anything? Yeah, well, we have the Trifecta. That's your clothing brand? No, Trifecta is our event space. Oh, you guys got an event space? Yeah, we have Queens Delight, which is the brunch spot we told you about. We have a trucking company, JB Elite Trucking. And we also have

pre-game sports restaurant that's opening up in the middle of May. Where's that? That's in Stratford, Connecticut, right outside Bridgeport. Got a new spot. I better be at the grand opening. Yeah, you better be. I'm inviting you to the grand opening. Awesome. Yeah. And you guys are both still living in Bridgeport, right? I'm in Florida. He's in Florida right now. I live in Trumbull right outside Bridgeport. Trumbull. Really? Awesome, guys. Well, thank you for coming on the show today. Thank you. Thank you.