Inside a Massachusetts Junkie’s Miserable Life of Addiction | Devin Donovan
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The NBA playoffs are here, and I'm getting my bets in on FanDuel. Talk to me, Chuck GPT. What do you know? All sorts of interesting stuff. Even Charles Barkley's greatest fear. Hey, nobody needs to know that. New customers bet $5 to get 200 in bonus bets if you win. FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.

21 plus and present in Illinois. Must be first online real money wager. $5 deposit required. Bonus issued is non-withdrawable bonus pass that expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanduel.com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Devin, welcome to Locked In. Brother, we had your co-host Joe on the show. His episode will be out before yours came out.

But thanks so much for coming all the way from Massachusetts. Thank you for having me, man. I appreciate it. Day after an ice storm, we made it work. We had no power in the studio yesterday, but power's back on. We're good to roll. And the wind died out. It wasn't as bad as they said it was going to be today. I guess the rain didn't really freeze overnight like they thought it would. But I'm glad it worked out. Thanks for making the trip. Yeah, of course, man. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. I'm grateful to be here. I still showed up.

I would have missed it for the world. So I appreciate it. Yeah. No, you know, plug in your podcast again. So you guys get that promo. Yeah, definitely. It's, um, it's at lace up six, one, seven on YouTube. Um, on Instagram, it's at Devin Don 22 and at Juno underscore, underscore two, six, two, seven. Awesome, man. Yeah. So we'll have that in the link in the, in the description too. So did you grow up in Massachusetts? Yeah, I grew up in mass. Um, I grew up, uh,

I grew up in Drake it right next to Lowell. Um, but you know, I, I bounced around, uh, bounced around a lot as a kid. You know what I mean? Um,

Yeah, so like last time I was here, I told you, you know, being Shooter, I was good friends with my father. You know what I mean? He's always done right by me and been a good dude. But yeah, I grew up in Massachusetts, man. It's like a love-hate thing, you know what I mean? Who did you grow up with? My grandmother raised me. My grandmother raised me. Mother, father were both...

Both addicted to drugs, you know, at a young age, like it's basically from the time I was born, you know. So my grandmother gave me, you know, a good life growing up. I had everything I wanted and needed for the most part, you know. But I think there was always like that void, you know what I mean? Like not wondering anything.

wondering where my parents were, why I'd go to school or why I'd go to these events and sports was a big part growing up and why my parents weren't around. I saw a lot of things an average kid probably didn't see. When did you realize or how old were you when your grandmother told you about the situation with your parents? She hid it from me for a while, to be honest with you. I kind of started to...

to figure it out, like on my own, which is kind of, kind of messed up in a way. Um, you know, I wish, I wish maybe some people were a little more honest with me about it, but you know, like, um, you know, I, I, I say this a lot and it's, it's true is, um, you know, my mother was, um, you know, my mother was on methadone. I, she'd tell me she was going to the dentist every day and I would, um,

I would get in the car with her and think she was going to the dentist, not knowing nothing of it. I'm like five, six years old, you know, and, um, you know, she was going to get her methadone and then my father would be away for work. And you know what I mean? He'd really be, uh, in Bill Ricker house correction and, uh, Cambridge jail, which isn't there anymore. But, um, you know, so other people would tell me, but, um, I'd say the first time I really realized that it was like,

Probably like 13 years old and maybe 12, 13. And I was at a baseball game and my father had gotten arrested and my family hid it from me. And he was on the front page of the Lowell Sun for an armed home invasion. And I thought it was another one of those times where I thought he was away for work, you know. But it's like I started putting two and two together. I'm like, if he's away for work...

why isn't he calling as much why am i not like seeing him or whatever you know whatever and um you know he never really wanted me to go go visit him in jail you know which i understand but um but yeah a couple kids are like making fun of it you know what i mean they're at the game it was like oh where's your dad but but you know that's that's the first time i was like damn like i thought like my dad was like a bad person not knowing you know not knowing you

Really, we all just make bad decisions. Was it just you or did you have siblings? I'm an only child. Wow. I'm an only child. That probably made it a little bit more difficult going through it alone. Yeah, it was tough, man. It was tough for sure. I was very close with my grandmother, aunts, uncles, all that stuff. Was your grandpa in the picture? No, so...

My, my grandparents on my father's side, I'm also very close with, but it was just, just my maternal grandmother. And then, um, I had my grandparents on my father's side too. So grandma, uh, Nana, Papa, and then my grandmother on my mom's side. So what did she do for work? Uh, my grandmother on my mother's side was a real estate agent. She, um, she worked very hard. She, uh,

She raised my mom and my aunt, you know, pretty much by herself. And, you know, it's actually funny to think about that, too, because, you know, as they say, like, my mom turned out to be, you know, an addict. And her sister, my aunt, turned out to be, like, you know, the complete opposite. You know, I worked in the same hospital, worked at World General for 20 years, you

you know, beautiful house, beautiful family goes on vacation like three, four times a year, just complete citizen, you know? So it's, that's an interesting, uh, component to it. Did you guys grow up struggling for money or you personally grow up struggling being raised by your grandmother? A little bit, you know, it was, it was definitely hard for her. You know what I mean? It was definitely hard. Um, I didn't, I, uh, I didn't come from money for sure. You know, I, I didn't, um,

You know, financial insecurity was definitely a part of it for sure. You know, like I remember there was a time where I wanted to, you know, I was big into basketball, right? And I wanted to play on like a certain AAU team and, you know, sports are expensive and stuff. You don't realize it when you're a kid, you know, but yeah.

But yeah, it was tough, man. It was tough. I mean, but she, like I said, she, she went above and beyond for me. You know, I had, I had the PlayStations, I had the Xboxes, you know, she, she really did the best she could for me. Would kids at school make fun of you because you were being raised by your grandmother? Um, no, I don't think so. I don't think they made fun of me. I just, I don't know. It's like one of those things where like, I, I felt that

I was different from other people. Now, maybe that was just, like, my own insecurity. You know what I mean? I'm not really sure. But, yeah, I think people always kind of, like, knew and wouldn't say it, but, like, they knew, like, what's up with Devin? Like, his parents aren't around or, like, you know what I mean? I think they knew because they'd come over and it'd be, you know, just me and my grandmother and that was it, you know, for as long as I could remember. So, and, you know, like, a lot of my friends, you know,

you know, met my dad and like the times my dad was like sober and in recovery, like he was, he was the best, you know what I mean? I think, um, you know, uh, we, you know, a lot of, a lot of my friends loved my dad, you know, it's just like, he wasn't, wasn't always around, you know? So how would people describe you as a kid? How would they describe me? Um, I would say maybe a little bit of a class clown, maybe a little bit, uh,

I don't know, probably honestly looking back on it, probably the type of kid that would do whatever to fit in and get attention. Honestly, whether it was fighting, whether it was saying or doing something stupid. Um, I don't know. I was never really a huge fan of school, to be honest with you. I mean, when I applied myself, I did well. Um,

But I didn't apply myself often, so. Did you have plans for college? Did you have a career in mind? I didn't really have a career in mind, but I did want to play college basketball. And, you know, that got messed up when I started. You know, I started not, I started getting into drugs and alcohol. And, you know, I stopped caring about school and sports as much, you know. People used to always joke with me, like, you could have been the next Chris Herron, you know what I mean? But, yeah.

No, I didn't even make it that far. How old were you when you first got exposed to drugs and alcohol? So I first started smoking weed around, I mean, just smoking weed at like 13, 14, like any normal kid. I loved it. I'd smoke it on the weekends and stuff like that. And then started smoking it right away and then started hanging out with, you know, people I didn't realize I was hanging out with. You know what I mean? I started hanging out with a couple of serious people and

You know, when you asked, like, you know, what would you describe yourself as a kid? You know, I was almost like a chameleon, dude, because I could fit in with the jocks. I could fit in with the people that sold drugs, the people that did drugs. I could be whoever you wanted me to be, you know. And that's almost like a blessing and a curse in a way, you know. But, yeah, so...

What was the question? I apologize. How old were you when you first got into drugs and alcohol? So, yeah, I started with the perks around probably like 16, 17, and quickly got introduced to heroin at 17, 18. I was doing heroin, yeah. Why perks? How did you get introduced to them, and why did you decide to make that choice to use them? Yeah, yeah, so...

I had a best friend who grew up right across the street from me. He came from a Dominican household and a lot of...

you know, a lot of, uh, Dominicans in the Lowell Lawrence area. And, uh, you know, a lot of them, a lot of them sell drugs. And, um, you know, he was, he was somebody that I started smoking weed with and started, um, you know, at first it was just like, we love smoking weed and playing basketball and I'd stay over his house all the time. And then, you know, he was my neighbor too. And his father, uh, his father was a drug dealer and, uh, sold per per 30s. And, um,

I got into those and at that same time, I was selling weed to a guy that was... He was in... He was a veteran. He served in the military and he got like about...

I think he got like 120 or 150 of the perk 30s a month. And I'd sell him weed. He'd give me some back. He'd try to have me sell the perks for him. And I just started taking them in. I didn't really know like what I was getting into. But one thing I did know is I loved the way they made me feel. So, you know, not realizing I was going to open Pandora's box, but it did. You know, it did. So, yeah.

Yeah, that's how it happened. And then why the switch from that to heroin? Why take that step up? Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, the Perk 30s are pretty expensive. You know what I mean? I basically, you know, I was probably doing heroin

Probably got to the point where I was doing like 10 per 30s a day. And it's like, if you do the math on that, it's probably, you know, somewhere around 300 bucks a day. And at this time they weren't, um, you know, they were real, they weren't fake with, you know, pressed with fentanyl or whatever, like they are now. But, um, you know, I had a screaming habit and I started getting sick and, you know, I, uh, I realized, you know, people would always say, oh, you save money if you buy heroin, it's cheaper, it's better, it's cheaper, you know? And, um,

you know, that was the truth in some sense, but you know, all your money's going to it either way. So, you know, um, but yeah, that, um, there was a lot of things I said I would never end up doing. You know, my dad always would tell me you're going to have to learn the hard way. You know what I mean? Um,

my father took me like down mass ave one time which you know like anywhere kensington you know similar similar circumstance and he's like if you keep keep it up you're gonna end up down here you know what i mean and i was like yeah whatever dude you're full of shit you know what i mean didn't didn't want to listen to him when he was he was 100 right you know what i mean and uh he um he ended up so shortly after um

Shortly out, like in the middle between right before I like transition from the Perk 30s to the heroin, my father passed away from an overdose in 2016. And after that happened, I just went off the deep end, honestly.

You know, you would think it would do the opposite, right? And that's what my grandmother always says. She's like, you know, you were exposed to it and you grew up around it. And she's like, you know, I would have thought you'd go the opposite way. But, you know, I just played the victim mentality, you know, and blamed everyone else for my problems, you know. It was easier to do at the time, you know. How does it progress? How does it get worse from there? Do you finish high school? Are you working a job? What does that look like? Yeah, so...

I ended up getting arrested in high school. I got kicked out my senior year. I got ripped out of English class in handcuffs. I had robbed some kid. I ate like a bunch of Xanax bars the night before and I don't know, just had this master plan that I was going to just rob this kid for weed and money and he ended up telling on me and they ripped me out of class and put me in handcuffs and

Um, yeah, by that time, like I didn't, you know, it was senior year. Uh, I didn't care about basketball anymore. I didn't care about anything. And, um, you know, they, uh, I was still 17 at that time. They kicked me out. So I got tried as a juvenile. Um, the kid, I don't think the kid ended up showing up to court or whatever, but, you know, basically they kicked me out of school. Um,

They expelled me. I ended up going to like my first adolescent detox behavioral facility and I ended up like appealing the expulsion. They're like, they're like, we'll let you graduate. We'll give you a diploma, but you're never allowed on school property again. And you're not allowed to like be a graduation or any of that shit. And I was like, all right, fine. So you're telling me I can just stay home and I can graduate and get fucked up. I was like, all right, sweet. So yeah,

That was pretty much that, you know, and then, yeah, there was really nothing after high school, dude. After high school was just balls to the wall drug use, to be honest with you. I ended up, I ended up homeless in Lowell, homeless in Boston, all over Massachusetts, really, you know, and yeah.

yeah, you know, I had all these friends going to college and, uh, doing all this stuff, man. And I had those same dreams and aspirations, you know, but I just, uh, I don't know. I made some bad decisions and I got, you know, I had to pay the consequences of them. You know what I mean? And, um, I ended up getting in trouble with the law a little bit. You know what I mean? I, I, uh, I definitely got luckier than I should have, uh, you know, I,

definitely, you know, prison, uh, county bids are part of my story, prison, not so much, you know, but I've definitely been lucky when it comes to that. So were you looking for someone to help you? Like, do you wish that's, uh, you had an active family member that was, you know, healthy enough or not an addict to kind of save you from the streets or anything like that? Yeah, it would have been nice like having a, um, would have been nice having like a, um,

You know, I mean, I guess like my grandfather, my grandfather was almost like a father figure to me because, you know, he was normal, man. He was an iron worker for 30 years. God rest his soul. He was an iron worker, tough guy, you know, Irish Catholic household. But yeah, I mean, I wish I had, I wish I had a little more guidance, man, for sure. But I feel like at the same time, it was there. Like my...

My uncle gave me a lot of guidance. My grandfather, they tried helping me in a lot of ways. I just don't think, I think I was just young and dumb. You know, I wasn't maybe ready to hear it or I had to

I had to learn through my own pain and suffering, you know, to come out the other side, luckily. Share with us some of those, like, real, raw, rock-bottom moments being a homeless addict. Yeah. You know, what that's like and how, you know, brutal that really is. Yeah, I mean, it was tough. So probably a couple of the worst experiences I had, yeah.

was in Worcester and Lawrence. I had an ex-girlfriend from Framingham, Mass.,

We met at an AA meeting. I had, like, a Charlie card and an EBT card, and I was like, let's go. You know what I mean? Like, anyone out there that's newly sober, I don't recommend finding a girlfriend at a meeting, but that's what happened, dude. And we just literally ended up all around Massachusetts. But, yeah, man, it's...

You know, I got to put my pride aside a little bit to say this, but it is the truth. You know what I mean? Anybody that's ever like been out there with me, like I was, um, I was literally like picking cigarettes up off the ground, smoking them, like fucking, um, boosting out of stores, you know, gorilla boosting. I'd run in some store and just grab a bunch of shit, give it to the drug dealer. Um,

Let's see. One time I was in Worcester. I was really, I was a mess, dude. I was probably a hundred pounds lighter than what I was. So I'm six one. The lightest I was at one time was like 135. And I was, yeah, I could pull up some pictures probably if I dig deep, but I try to forget those times in life, you know, but I got to remember them too. So there was one time I was at a, I was at a detox in Worcester mass and I had went in there with my ex and I

She like snuck drugs in. She like, you know, those lighter leashes or whatever. She like put a bag of dope bag of heroin in the lighter leash and like snuck it in, but they, they stole it when we went in. So,

Whatever. We ended up leaving together. I was so sunburned, dude. I had fallen asleep in Crystal Park in Worcester. I was so sunburned, dude. They ended up sending me to the hospital from detox. Like, they gave me, like, antibiotics, prednisone, like, all this. I still have scars on my chest from it, dude. I fell... I nodded out in a park in, like, the hottest day of the year. It wasn't the best idea. Best day to do it, for sure. But we left...

Like, that's how deep it got me, right, is, you know, I'm sitting there. I got scabs all over me, sunburn. And, like, in my head, I'm just, like, telling myself, like, you know, deep down, it's like I didn't think I was worth it, man. I didn't have, like, any purpose. I just, you know, thought I was going to die from an overdose just like my dad. You know what I mean? I mean, that's...

oh that's just the card i was dealt and that's just how it's gonna be and it is what it is you know and um so we left that with all the scars on my chest we left that place and um the guy looked at me the guy that worked there looked at me and he's like you're gonna die and i was like yeah whatever dude go fuck yourself you know what i mean and uh

Like 10 minutes later, I'm in a wife beater. I'm walking down the street and I have two big boxes of Pampers on each shoulder. I'm going to meet the drug dealer. And that same guy that was working at the detox that told me I was going to die is out there smoking a cigarette. And I'm with my ex, dude. And you want to just talk about like, just, just fucking shame and guilt. And like, you know, it's, it sucks, man. Cause, um,

You know, it's been a long time since I lived like that, honestly. I'd love to say I've been sober since that point. That's not the case. But, you know, I started meeting a lot of good people in recovery and I'm lucky to have made it out. I've overdosed about 10 or 11 times and, you know, I don't necessarily understand why

Um, you know, my father overdosed once and he's gone, you know, and thank God for Narcan and thank God for, you know, all the, all the resources that we're starting to get out there now. I'll say that. Did you have resentment towards your parents? Like, did you blame them for your addiction? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I've done all types of, uh, I've done all types of, um, grief counseling and, um,

you know, therapy and stuff. I've done, I've honestly probably gotten the most out of, uh, doing step work with like a sponsor. Um, as far as like in a, like that with the AA format of it, you know, um, cause I, I blamed them for everything, man. I thought that,

I blamed everyone for everything. You know, I was, I was a real sick individual, man. I thought it was everyone else's fault for, for why I ended up the way I did. And, you know, maybe there is some truth to, maybe there is some truth to, um, you know, like, you know, growing up feeling like I couldn't talk to people feeling, you know, it was always like, uh, it was always like, uh, what happens in this house stays in this house and, you know, whatever. And, um,

Yeah, I mean, I definitely hold a resentment towards them or held a resentment towards them. But, you know, it's funny how life works. It comes full circle, you know, because fast forward a little bit, you know, I ended up having twin girls. And, you know, having twin girls, man, really, really gave me a purpose and a different perspective. And it also made me realize, too, that,

You know, when someone had, when someone's in the grips of addiction, they're not able to be there for the people they love. You know what I mean? And that I started to understand that, you know, it wasn't necessarily their choice that they weren't around. You know what I mean? They, they were the same as I was, you know what I mean? And it's just, it's unfortunate, but it is what it is, you know? What happened to your mom?

So my mom is, that's funny you ask that, my mom is still around. We're closer than we were, I'll say that much. I was always a lot closer with my dad because of like sports and stuff, but you know, me and my mom talk. My mother helps out with my children a lot to this day.

And, yeah, me and my mom have a growing relationship. You know what I mean? It's a work in progress for sure. You know what I mean? But, you know, my mom's definitely better than she was. You know what I mean? She's definitely better than she was. That's for sure. She was a mess too. So I'm grateful that she's still around, you know. Why do you think addicts get to the point where, you know, they're putting –

uh addiction over getting food or you know going to the point where you're you know smoking cigarette butts wherever you could find or dig it through the trash or anything just to get that next fix i don't know man that's a million dollar question right there it's it's powerful it really is and that's the thing like i've been that guy that you know i've bumped into a friend and they've handed me twenty dollars and i haven't eaten for three days and like

You know, I'd rather go... I was the type that, like, I'd rather walk into a Cumberland Farms and, like, steal something to eat than spend something on... You know, if I could get a 20-bag of heroin or a 40-bag of heroin, then that's just what I was going to do. You know, I don't know. I don't know. It's just powerful, man. I think they say the disease of addiction, you know, like, it doesn't necessarily respond to logic or reason, you know, because...

here's a kid that has every reason in the world to, to get sober. He's got a good family. He's got kids. Why does he keep messing up? You know what I mean? I think it's a direct, uh, I think with anybody, I think it comes down to like, um, I think pain, pain is a big motivator for me. I think anytime I've ever been successful in life has come from some type of pain or adversity or, or not things not going as I planned for them to go. Like, um,

Yeah, I think that's about it. Share with us some of your run-ins with law enforcement while you were homeless on the streets battling addiction. Yeah, so one of them was I've had a couple possession charges. I had a possession charge in Wohl, possession charge in Lawrence, got caught with heroin, cocaine, alcohol.

And then there was a couple times, one time in Worcester, and this tells you everything you need to know about Worcester right here, right? I'm with my ex. We're smoking crack on like a church stoop. Sorry. Sorry, God. But it's like 4 in the morning on a Tuesday, right? The cops fly by, and he puts it in reverse. I'm like, oh, fuck. So I start tucking shit, right? I knew what time it was. I start tucking shit.

He starts walking up to us, and I wasn't able to tuck everything. There was still a crack pipe. There was still a couple of baggies, whatever. And he takes the drugs, and he's like, we're charging you with trespassing. And I'm like, where the fuck's Ashton Kutcher, dude? Am I being punked? Like, you're not... Didn't charge me with possession of anything. Charged me with trespassing. And, like, at that time, like, I didn't really have much on my record. Like...

And it was four in the morning on a Tuesday. They bring me to the fucking, they, they bring us to the courthouse in Worcester. They're driving like assholes in the paddy wagon to bouncing around all over the place. Um,

and, uh, I sat in the holding cell all day from like 4am to like 4pm just for them to tell you, oh yeah, chargers are being dismissed or whatever. It was trespassing, dude. I was standing on, standing on a stoop, but yeah, it was, that was interesting to say the least. And then, um, one other time I got a, uh, breaking an entering charge, um, out of Framingham. That was, um, that was probably my biggest, biggest charge was breaking an entering, um,

You know, and interesting story with that was the kid that I allegedly did it with, my co-defendant, ended up passing away during the trial. And Jesse D'Amelio, God rest his soul, but yeah. Yeah, so I ended up getting pretty lucky with that, too. On the break and entering charge, they said that we broke into a sober house, which never happened, but that's a whole other story, so...

It's kind of crazy. And they charged you with felonies and you went to trial? Yeah, I took it to trial. I took it to trial. Um, cause I, it ended up coming out. So I was in, I was in a detox facility the night that it happened. And I had that on the pay. I, I came to realize that they didn't really have much on me, dude. So I got picked up. Rewind a little bit. I left, I left the detox facility. I got picked up, um, on a warrant for that. And, um,

You know, it was during the pandemic. They held me. It was a shit show. But it ended up coming out. I'm like telling my lawyer, I'm like, dude, right here, the night of the crime, I had proof that I was in a detox facility in Massachusetts from the time that it happened. The time that it happened, it was like, I don't know, it was actually in February too. It was like February, I don't know,

24th or something like that and I had proof on paper and they thought they had me but they didn't so I ended up yeah I still don't have a felony on my record if you can believe that I've been very lucky dude very lucky why do you think they thought it was you there must have been something that happened right yeah so the kid and this is like well known too that like a lot of I've told a lot of people this so

The kid that ended up dying, not to talk bad about him, but he was the one that did it. And, you know, he didn't want to come out and say... So I ended up... Dude, and he died. I ended up having to go to court for this for a long time, dude. Like, I couldn't...

It was just a pain in the ass, man. I finally got through that. So you went to a full-blown trial with a jury and everything? Yeah, it was crazy. And they found you not guilty? Yes, correct. It was crazy. It was absolute madness, dude. And I sat during the pandemic. Were you homeless during that time of the trial? Yeah. So what would you do? What are you wearing? I'll never forget. So...

And this is, this is it too. Like I, during this time, like between probably 20, between 2018 and probably 2020, 2021, I had like no contact with my family, like whatsoever. And that wasn't by their choice. You know what I mean? I just, um, I was just so deep in it. You know what I mean? And, uh, yeah, I was running around framing him with my ex at the time. And I actually used to live in that sober house and, um, you know, it came out, um,

I don't know. I didn't even realize, but when I got picked up on the warrant, I'm like, what are you guys? I was so confused, dude. I was so confused. And then, um, and then I was like, talk, I'm like, yo, I didn't, some people believed me and then some didn't. Right. Because you know, why would they believe me? It's something I probably would do. You know what I mean? But, um, yeah, the kid, the kid said to the cops, all that was, he used my name and said it was me. And, uh,

You know, the kid that died never showed up, had to show up to court for it or nothing. I forget exactly the time period of when he died. But but, yeah, I was homeless in Framingham and a friend of mine hit me up on Facebook Messenger and he was like, yo, I heard your name called in the courtroom today. I'm like, what? And like some time had gone by and the kid had died and whatever. And I'm like, what, dude? So I had to go to court.

And, yeah, like, they were, like, probation. They kept checking in on me. Like, I ended up going to a halfway house. And, like, you know, that's another part of my story. I've been to a lot of halfway houses. And, yeah, I just couldn't get rid of it, dude. And it was driving me nuts. But eventually, like, you know, the paperwork came out that I was in the detox facility. And, you know, it wasn't me. And I wasn't going to say who did it or what, you know what I mean? But, yeah.

Yeah, it was a shit show. You almost would have been better off not having bail and just staying in because you would have been better off in prison. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And that like came to my mind too is like, you know, I, uh, I don't know. I didn't really have a lot going on outside. So it would have been, you know, I probably should have went away. Maybe it would have helped me, you know, if I fucking did, did the time in prison, um,

But yeah, so that was a crazy story. Did a part of you want to get sober because you kept going to different detoxes and trying new things out? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Part of me definitely did. You know, I ended up going to like my first...

I ended up going to like my first AA meeting with my father. And then shortly after he died, I went to my first halfway house in South Boston, the Cushing house. It's not there anymore. Tell people what a halfway house is. Yeah, halfway house. So a lot of people think like halfway house is like for people just coming from jail or whatever, which is the case in some cases. But, you know, yeah.

At least like in Massachusetts, um, a halfway house is like a state run, uh, state run program facility, um, that, you know, um, you can go there and you can, um, try to get back on your feet and get your life back together, you know? So, um, a lot of times, um, you know, it's like a structured living environment where there's staff members and, um, you know, you slowly earn privileges and, um,

You know, I went to, uh, I went to the Cushing house in South Boston and, uh, you know, I was still like very numb to the fact that my father had died, but like, that was my first time giving it an actual shot. And, uh, you know, so around from like 18 to 18 to, um, 26, 25, 26. I mean, there was bits and periods of, of sobriety in there, but, um, you know, I, uh,

I was all around Boston pretty much trying to get sober. I've been to Maine. I've been all over Maine. I did the shuffle for sure, as they say. Now, these halfway houses, they're voluntary? They're not court-ordered in your case? Yeah, so a couple of them were court-ordered. So the Cushing House one at that time was court-ordered because I just had the thing with high school, when I got in trouble in high school. So I still had that hanging over my head, but most of them...

most of them were optional you know what I mean most of them were optional and uh it's funny I uh I was actually um in the Cushing house I just missed 1090 Jake when he was there he uh he was there with a friend of mine Jared uh Jared Hesek and uh I reached out to um I reached out to Jake probably a couple months back when we started the podcast up and uh he hit me back and showed me some love so that was cool um he was just getting out of prison at that time yeah yeah I think so um

yeah, he, he, um, he worked at the Smoke Shop and that, that was funny. I was DMing him. I was like, oh, I used to buy K2 at that Smoke Shop and this and that. It was funny. But, um, yeah. Um, yeah, I loved living in South Boston, dude. I loved it. It was the best at, uh, you know, it was like my first time, like, you know, they take us all over the place. We'd go to meetings, go to Castle Island and, you know, it was just fun, man. It was like the first time, like,

A seed was planted and I like had fun like post drugs and alcohol, you know, getting sober and like having real fun. It was a good time. Why do you think those, you know, stays between the time you started going to the sober houses and the halfway houses up until when you finally got clean? Why do you think those, none of those worked for you while you were in and out? Yeah. So I think, I think a lot of the reason they didn't work was because, um,

I probably just wasn't willing, definitely because I just wasn't willing to put in the work, you know, as far as, you know, like I talked to you, I've done a lot of therapy. I've done a lot of step work. I still continue to go to meetings. I have a higher power. I have God in my life. You know, I truly believe that. I believe everything happens for a reason, you know, but at that time, like I just still had that victim mentality and,

You know, some people would tell me to go to meetings and I would, I would deviate and I'd, you know, drink Red Bulls and hang out with the girl outside the meeting. And, um, you know, I've basically done everything, everything wrong you could possibly imagine when it comes to like, you know, uh, trying to get sober, you know what I mean? Um,

So yeah, I think it just comes down to like willingness and like going through enough pain. You know what I mean? I think that was the main thing. What were some things on your journey to try to get sober that you realized now weren't helping you, but they might work for other people, but in your case, it didn't help you. It didn't work for you. Yeah. Because getting sober looks different for everyone. Yeah, of course. Of course. For me, I realized that... I realized that...

I had to really get involved in a community, which is something that, you know, I really had to start hanging around different people, right? I had to start hanging around people that had dreams and aspirations and goals and people that, like, had what I wanted, you know what I mean? Because they say you are who you surround yourself with, right? So if I'm...

You know, if I'm always hanging out and not to judge anyone, you know, but if I'm always hanging out with the cool people, so to speak, or like, you know, the people that I wanted to fit in around, whether it was, you know, as Bean Shooter would say, the Irish, the Irish Rolex, the Irish jewelry, you know, like the people with the ankle bracelet and the cool stories and playing with like all that shit. Like I've done all that. Like it's fun. Don't get me wrong. But yeah, man, I just...

women was a problem for me gambling was a problem for me love to gamble um and like I said I was I resent my that's another thing like I resented my father for for that because like he loved gambling he loved um you know like the first time I ever watched uh like Goodfellas and American Gangster was like with my father you know what I mean so like I looked up to him and like that was like

part of like the the mask and facade that like i wanted to be you know what i mean i wanted to wanted to be that and uh here i am you know it didn't happen what happened to your relationship with your grandmother after high school like why did you all of a sudden stop living with her uh was like that fight or the robbery the yeah the final straw with her what happened what did that look like how that deteriorate yeah so we have a great relationship to this day but during this time um

You know, um, I just, I don't know, man. I just, I think it was like one of those things where if I wanted to live in her house and be under her roof and respect her that I had to be clean and I just wasn't, and I wasn't willing to be, and I wasn't, you know, I didn't, I don't know. I was, it's sad, but I, I, I was comfortable with staying in a tent or being up for a week straight and not eat. And I was comfortable with that. And, um, you know, it's sad. Um,

But yeah, that was really the only thing. There was nothing like she, you know, and I was like in a different part of the state too. Like if anytime that like I was in Lowell or around, like she would, you know, she'd come get me food or I'd go shower at her house and stuff like that, you know, but, but yeah, no, I just, I was just caught up, you know. Do you think that was the wrong approach looking back on it for her to handle it that way? Like, do you wish you had a little bit more support?

maybe maybe but i think like any time that i like you know there was there was one time in particular i was sleeping um i was sleeping in the back of a car um with my action framing him and uh you know all that pandemic money ran out and uh i gave her a call and i was like i was sick as a dog man probably sicker than i've ever been uh dope sick and um

I called her and I was like, I've had enough. Like, I want to go to detox. And I went and I ended up putting like 18 months of sobriety together at that time. But, you know, gambling, women, all that stuff, it catches up to you. You know what I mean? It's like anything they say, anything you put in front of your recovery, you're going to lose. Right. So it's like to this day, like.

Um, I try to keep recovery number one, you know, I try to keep it in that number one priority because with that, I'm able to show up for my kids. I'm able to show up for the people I love. Um, and when all my priorities are out of whack and I'm not taking care of myself, then I'm

this disease of addiction, it'll take care of me. So I try to do that. During this period of time, did you ever have a job? Did you try to get a job? Did you work a normal job? Yeah, I did. I worked at a... I did a couple construction jobs.

I know you asked me that. I just got beaten around it. Yeah, I did excavation for my father's friend for a while. I worked for an excavation company out of Billerica, Mass. Just all types of different construction, man. I couldn't hold the job, though, Ian. That was the thing. I couldn't hold the job. I'd rather...

I'd rather hustle and fucking run into uh Macy's and grab everything off the shelf than you know and make money that way you know and um it became hard honestly it was hard for me like at first like having to like get a real job and like not like know what it was like to like you know have like a quick quick come up from like drug money or from stealing or any of that like you know that was it's all part of like the changing process you know and uh

What's something that happened during the height of your addiction that you look back on now and you're really embarrassed by or you're like, I'm not that person anymore? What would you say that moment would be? I'd say, I don't want to incriminate myself here, but there's a particular story. I just told it on my podcast the other day. A guy comes up to me. I'm living in this sober house in Medford. A guy comes up to me and he goes,

um you're trying to make some money and it's his sober house he didn't know i was getting high in the sober house but that's that's besides the point um he's like you're trying to make some money i'm like yeah absolutely what do i have to do so he goes um it was during the pandemic he goes um my boy's gonna call you like four o'clock and tell you what you need to do i'm like all right bet she calls me and uh he worked for i'm not gonna say who we worked for but he worked for um

you know, it was like a state job and he had to get the vaccine. Right. And, um, I ended up going and getting the vaccine for him with his ID. I walked in the stock market with his ID, got the vaccine. He paid me cash to do it. Cause they wouldn't, they wouldn't like, they weren't buying the whole, like he didn't want to get the vaccine thing and religious reasons and all that. They weren't buying it and he didn't want to lose his pension. And I did that for, I did that twice. Yeah.

How much would you get? I only got like $1,500 if that. Wait, they gave you that much money? Yeah. That's pretty good money. Because they could have bought a fake COVID card for $200. Yeah, right? He could have. Yeah, no, 100%. Wait, they didn't check your ID when you walked in? No, I kind of looked like him. Dude, it was crazy. So you used his ID? Yeah, I used his ID. Yeah, I used his ID and I went in and I got it. Yeah, so...

He literally could have bought a fake COVID card for a couple hundred bucks. He's a donkey. He's a donkey for that. I am too, though. I mean, you made your money. Yeah. I did what I had to do at that time. You know what I mean? So did you get your own COVID shot too? No. Oh, God. So you were just taking... Wait. So if you got it twice... I got it twice. So you just have multiple COVID shots going in? I have multiple COVID shots and...

I don't have one for myself on paper. So yeah, that's an embarrassing story. Yeah. So describe your journey to getting sober, what that looked like. What was the final, you know, rock bottom straw that it took you to get to getting sober and then what that process looked like? Yeah. Rock bottom for me, man, was I told you I had twin girls and I was sober during that time. And, you know, I was there for their birth. I was...

with the mother of my kids at the time. I had an apartment, I had a car, I had just gotten to the union, everything was going good. And, you know, looking back, like it probably wasn't the most healthy relationship with my kid's mother and I wasn't too happy. But needless to say, I relapsed, right? And, you know, at that time I hadn't, so I'm about, right now I'm about three years clean from opiates, right? I stopped smoking.

I got on the Vivitrel shot, which saved my life in a sense, right? You know, a lot of people say, like, Suboxone, Methadone, like, you know, it's really only a Band-Aid. You know, you want to fix your internal problems. But, you know, Vivitrel helps me a lot as far as opiates go. And, yeah, so I...

Rock bottom. I ended up losing my children. They were about six months old. I ended up losing my children, lost the apartment, lost the relationship with my kid's mother. And, yeah, that was rock bottom for me, man, because it was like an emotional bottom. You know what I mean? All that stuff from my parents not being there for me as a kid to, you know, like,

wanting to break the cycle and realizing like how I have this like responsibility now and this purpose and um the most selfish thing I could do is um you know put drugs and alcohol before my children you know what I mean I don't ever I don't ever want to be in that place again in my life you know and uh I try to do what I have to do on a daily basis so that I never go back there you know um

I pray every day. I have a sponsor. I've been to the 12 steps. And I go to meetings on a daily basis. And that's what helps me in staying connected with people. I want to give a shout out to Rockland Recovery and to Eddie McGrath because that program really separated itself from all the others. I've been to...

probably 20 plus program halfway houses detoxes you know all that stuff right and Eddie's really separated itself Rockland Recovery Group and you know what made it different what made it stand out yeah so I think what made it different was definitely like you know they say the opposite of addiction is connection right Rockland says that a lot and it's the truth right because coming in

you know, with your tail tucked between your legs after relapsing for the hundredth time, right? In my case. And like, you know, having people that really treat you like you're, you're the same as them. You're not better than, you're not less than like, uh, like true, genuine, compassionate people that, um, like they take the time out of their day to talk to you and see how you're feeling. And, um, they push, they push the steps and they push, um,

they push connection you know what I mean they push like you know if you're having a bad day man go talk to somebody about it it's all right to be vulnerable it's all right like you know all the you know so I try I try um you know I I pulled a tough guy card out of my back pocket from time to time but for the most part I try to just be my authentic self you know and try to be vulnerable and

and open and honest with people. So what were some things that helped you stay on track after, you know, you, you get released from that facility, you know, obviously the more you push forward, the more sober days you have behind you, but what kept you gaining those days? Yeah. So, um, I think like just staying, staying busy, staying consistent, staying disciplined. I mean, always in my life, man, um,

I would kind of plateau, right? I would kind of plateau. And, um, you know, it's, it's interesting too, right? Because, you know, for someone that's listening, anyone that's listening to this, um, you know, I always thought like, oh, I had, you know, I had 18 months before I had a year before. And, you know, I'm, I'm shy, a little shy of that right now. But as far as like how I felt internally and like the work I was doing on myself, it's, it's not even comparable. You know what I mean? I don't gamble anymore. Um,

There's a lot of like behaviors I had to change. You know what I mean? They say, um,

you know, drugs and alcohol is just like a symptom and, you know, it's, it's really in your, in your mind, you know what I mean? Changing, changing the way you think and getting uncomfortable and you have to, you have to get uncomfortable to grow. Right. So I think that's, that's a big part of it, man. And my sponsor said this to me not too long ago. And he's like, I think, you know, um, I think you're doing great. He's like, I still think, you know, and that, that's why I surround myself with people, right. With like,

you know, mama mentality, bell bell check mentality, like do your job. And like, there's always room for improvement. Right. Because I don't need, I've had, you know, I've had plenty of people that are going to co-sign my behavior and say, yeah, let's,

let's go to the casino let's go to the strip club let's do this or that which you know i'm i'm sure if i do any of those things i'm not gonna i'm not gonna get high you know what i mean but it's it's it's a slippery slope you know what i mean i'd rather have two feet in than one foot in and one foot out you know so um yeah he was just saying to me like you know i think uh

You know, you're still a little comfortable and institutionalized and you have to, you know, break those things. And I need people like that to, like, help me be aware of these different things, you know. How did you start rebuilding your life once you, you know, you knew in your mind you were sober, you didn't plan on going back to drugs? Yeah. Or at least in that interim moment, how do you start to rebuild? Yeah. So it's a long process, man. You know, there's some things from, you know,

There's some things I still have. There's a lot that I've learned. I think you can't take away someone's experience, right? So anytime that I've...

um, just done the next right thing, man, and tried to be a good person and show up and listen to, listen to, um, you know, my mentors, so to speak, listen to these people. Um, they're not going to steer me in the wrong direction. So, you know, it's, it's been a process, man. Like I didn't, I didn't have a license until I was like 22 years old, you know what I mean? Which is crazy. But you know, I didn't, I didn't have a license. I didn't have a car. I didn't have a lot of things. And like,

um, you know, I, I messed up my credit. I'm still working on rebuilding my credit, you know, certain things, some, some things take longer than others. You know what I mean? And I think that's a message. Um, I was talking with someone the other day, like everyone's, uh, everyone's timeframe is different, right? Some per, some people might, some people might have the white picket fence in the house and in a couple of years and some people that might take a little longer, but I think at the end of the day, if you're

If you're bettering yourself each and every day and you're staying consistent, you know, you're going to crush those goals and you're going to get there. You know, it's just sometimes it doesn't always happen as quick as we want them to, but it's going to happen, you know. What about your kids? Were you able to get them back? Yeah, so I have custody of my kids. Right now I'm still, I'm like transitioning. I'm still...

I'm still in a sober living house at the time at this time. Um, but I'm training, I see my kids all the time and, uh, my kids are like everything to me, you know what I mean? Outside of, um, you know, outside of like me having to put my recovery first and stuff. It's like, that's the biggest, biggest blessing, um, that's given me is like being able to be there for my kids and, and help out. And, you know, like I said, my mom helps me out a lot with that, but, um, but yeah, when I, when I lost him, um,

the court got involved and all that stuff. And, um, that's been like a process, you know, of trying to, uh,

like go through that whole process, you know, making sure that, that I'm fit, a fit father, you know what I mean? Which, um, I surround myself with a lot of people that, um, you know, are good fathers in recovery, right? Because it's like, if I want to learn how to be the best dad I can be, then that's who I'm going to surround myself with. Do you feel like your mom is trying to make an effort with you to make amends for her actions and not being there in the past? A hundred percent. Yeah. Which is great in a way, you know what I mean? I think,

Um, I like left this part out a little bit earlier, you know, um, my mom's, my mom's great. Right. But she, um, you know, at the end of the day, um,

she's still um a little unwell in some ways and you know that's okay but um yeah i think she's you know i think she's big on like the whole redemption thing and um wants to just wants to be there um for them uh and make up for things which is great you know i'm grateful for my mother and grateful for that because um if it wasn't for my mother and my grandmother at that time like

Um, you know, my kids would have ended up in the system and, um, you know, now I can see them whenever I want and take them wherever I want. It's a great feeling. It's a great feeling. How are you going to make sure your kids don't fall down the same path like you did with your parents? Yeah. So I think, um, I don't know. I mean, they're still really young, but I've thought about these things. Like I don't, um,

I don't know. I want my kids to be able to feel like they can come to me with anything, right? I want them to feel like they can be vulnerable. They can talk to me. Because, like, you know, I don't think keeping your feelings in helps. You know, I really don't. I think your feelings are going to come out in some way, shape, or form, you know? And, yeah, I think just making them feel loved, right? And I think...

being the best dad I can be and them growing up in a household, um, you know, hopefully, hopefully with two loving parents, but if not, at least, you know, one loving parent that, uh,

That, you know, does the best they can for them and makes them feel loved each and every day. You know, I think that's... They say the best ability is availability. You know what I mean? And I think just being physically and emotionally available for them will be huge. Now, you mentioned you're still with a sober living house now. What does that look like? What's it like to live in a sober living house on, you know, while staying clean and everything like that? Yeah, it can be brutal. I'm not going to lie to you. It can be tough, you know, because...

Like any program, right, any sober house, you can be around people that have no interest in wanting to stay clean. But, you know, there's a lot of people, man, that need to learn how to – and I had to. I had to, and I still have to. I try to remain teachable, but, you know –

You have to, like, do your chore and you have to show up to a house meeting, like, once a week and you have a curfew, right? Because, you know, they're trying to, you know, they're trying to teach people to be responsible again, right? And trying to teach people, like, making your bed and being up at a certain time and, like, punctuality and all these things that are, like, important in life that...

probably get probably get lost you know somewhere down the line when you're when you're smoking cigarettes off the ground or you know like in my case or or whatever it is you know but yeah it can be a lot of a lot of drama you know people stealing people's food and shit like that it's uh me and uh me and jake scali are working on something right now we're gonna do like a a sober full house and it's like gonna be like full house but

sober house version. So that'll be... Yeah, I've walked in, I've visited like some sober houses that my friends own and, you know, it kind of really brings you back to the basics of how to live. Like it reminded me of prison a little bit. It reminded me, even though you got way more freedom. Of course. But just that living dynamic and being around those individuals, it kind of really strips it down and it teaches you the basics. 100%. All over again. It's like you're relearning stuff after addiction. Yeah. And that's the thing too is...

You know, we got guys from all different walks of life, right? We have some street guys. We have some guys that grew up in the suburbs. And, like, it doesn't matter where you're from, right? Addiction doesn't discriminate. But, you know, some people are less familiar with certain things, like reaching over plates and taking people's seats and shit like that, you know? But...

I don't know. I'm trying to break that whole mentality, you know, like, and like telling on people too, like, you know, and, um, it's a, it's, I don't know, it's tough, but, um, you know, we all just do the best we can, man. At the end of the day, we're, we're hopefully we're all there for the same reason. And, uh, got one common goal and that's getting clean and getting our lives together and our family back. And, you know, some people, uh,

You know, so it's a lot of people, I've seen a lot of people change their lives, man, and do big things. And yeah, it's great. It's great. What advice would you give to your teenage self before you ever tried a drug? Like if you could, you know, look back, stand next to yourself and you're just about to take that pill for the first time or that shot of heroin, what would you tell that person? I would go, if you, if you were asking me right now, if I could go back, I'd go back in a heartbeat. I a hundred percent would. Yeah.

not that like, you know, I try to, you know, I try to wear, wear it as like armor now, you know, like I'm not, I'm not ashamed to say like, I'm an addict, I'm in recovery. But you know, if, if I could have, if I could have gone back and change that, I would have, I would definitely tell myself to, um, you know, to, to stay in school, man, to listen, to play sports, to, to find something you're passionate about and stick to it and find a career. And, uh,

you know drugs and alcohol isn't going to fix your problems it's not going to make you um you know it's not gonna it's not gonna make you feel better it might make you feel better in the short term but in the long term it's gonna give you a whole lot of problems you know like i i lost i lost everything to it i really did you know and um you know it's it's uh it's an amazing thing you know like being able to be in the in the depths of hell and come back you know they say uh

They say spiritualities for people. Shit, what's Joe say? Religions for people that never been to hell. Spiritualities for people that been to hell and back or something like that. You know, it's like.

Just crazy, man. I think about, yeah. Well, Devin, I appreciate you coming on the show today and sharing your story with me. Thank you, Ian. I appreciate you having me, bro. Yeah, of course. And I wish you the best on your recovery journey and, you know, just keep pushing forward, keep doing what you're doing. And you'll be an inspiration to many more that will follow that path. Thank you, bro. I absolutely will. Thank you for having me. Thank you.