Inside the Assault That Sent Me to Prison Boot Camp & a 10-Year Addiction Battle | Phillip Schaap
01:52:45 Share

Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website, to marketing, to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer.

Right now, up to 55% off your Babbel subscription at Babbel.

Every idea starts with a problem. Morby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive.

So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in-house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact-resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate. And they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff.

Stop by a Warby Parker store near you. Bill, welcome to Locked In. You had a little bit of a drive to get here this morning, but you made it. Yeah, from Delaware, yep. Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate you making the drive. Shout out to your friend for making the drive with you too that's listening. Yep, thanks, Drew. Yeah, and I hope you guys enjoy the Tyson edibles and joints we're sending you back with. Yeah, sounds great, man. Yeah, definitely let me know how you like them after. I'll reach back out. That's fine. Yeah, I think I gave you blackberry and watermelons.

Okay. I did the watermelon the other night. Yeah. Me and my buddy, Mike, who you met earlier, we got so high last night. Stayed up a little too late after dinner. Yeah. Because I was trying to get to bed like 9, 9.30 and we all went out to dinner and didn't get to bed till like 1 o'clock. So I canceled training this morning and stuff and got a late start. So do you ever use cannabis for sleep? I just use it for sleep. So my dad, he's a pharmacist and he's...

says that there have been some very bad studies that have come out about using cannabis directly for sleep. Really? Just a heads up, yeah. Why? What are the studies? I don't know. It's just, he follows stuff like that, but I don't know. It's just what he said. Yeah, but then you could make the argument for melatonin. That's what I take every night, yeah. You take melatonin? Yeah.

a lot of it. I'm immune to melatonin now. Yeah. I took melatonin for the first time in prison. So we used to take, when you got melatonin smuggled in, you'd take that. Or the biggest one in prison was the cheap knockoff allergy pills. Those things will have you knocked out and drowsy. I think it's worse than alcohol, the federal prison allergy pills. That's wild that people were smuggling in stuff like that. Oh, we'd get everything, protein powder,

Yeah. Just anything that like, you know, teeth whitening strips. Yeah. Anything that helps like the little things, you know. Right. It's all about comfort, man. They don't want weapons or anything in the camps. They want like just comfort. Where I was at, there was no, nothing like that. I mean, it was not possible to get something in the building I was at. So, yeah. Did you grow up in Delaware? Yeah. A small town called Greenwood, Delaware. Maybe like a thousand people.

And then when I was in eighth grade, we moved over to a slightly bigger town called Milford. Oh, we have a Milford, Connecticut. I know. Every time I Google, yeah, it always comes up. And who did you grow up with? So I have an older brother and an older sister and my mom and dad. So it was just us five. And yeah, we were a good family, man.

So, not really any trauma in my life growing up. What did your parents do for work? My dad is a pharmacist, and my mom was able to— she would take odd jobs here and there when she felt like she needed to, but she was just a stay-at-home mom for us. So, you guys had some money, good financial situation? I mean, pharmacists, they do. He was able to provide for us. I mean, growing up, that man, he worked constantly. He was in that pharmacy 12 hours a day.

Every day, you know what I mean? It was a small company was bought out by Rite Aid. But um, yeah, I remember he was always always working but he always made time for us also did like baseball games and soccer or stuff like that Did your dad teach you about drugs at a young age because he was a pharmacist? No, I mean growing up I didn't even really know what he did. You know what I mean? And until I became a teenager, how would people describe you as a kid? I

Um, a lot of energy, rambunctious. Um, I, I wasn't like a troublemaker, but I was definitely mischievous as a kid. And you look like one of those. I know. And this is, this is me at my best, man. Uh, did you do, do a public schooling for middle school and high school? Uh, yeah, my whole life I went to public school. So I went to, uh, Woodbridge school district till eighth grade. And then I went over to Milford and, um,

Woodbridge is just a very small, I think it's the smallest school district in the state of Delaware, but adjusting from Woodbridge to Milford, a school of 200 to a school of 1200, it was kind of, it was a little bit hard on me switching schools.

What about career aspirations? What do you want to be when you grow up? When I was young? Yeah. I wanted to be a commercial crabber. A crabber? A crabber. I see the lobster on your head. Yeah, yeah. It's a hard life, but my buddy used to take me all the time and...

I just loved being on the water. I still love it to this day. So did you do that in high school at all? Were you a crabber? We would do it recreationally. My buddy, he's a nursing instructor during the school year, but his summer's off, so he's actually a commercial crabber now. So I do help him from time to time. Take me on a crabbing trip, man. Hey, you want to go? We'll absolutely take you. Do you guys eat it? Yeah. No.

Oh, yeah. I love crab. Yeah, he'll, you know, sell what he has to and he'll usually slide me some when we go if I want some. Now, aren't there like, is it like lobsters where there's certain crabs that are tagged that you can't kill or take or no? So, I'm not sure. I've never seen a blue crab that is tagged. I'm not saying they don't exist. Mm-hmm.

But I've never seen it. I've been watching all those TikToks. I don't know why I came up with my For You page, but just the lobsters in the ocean and all the eggs. They show like if it's a mom with, I guess they have like a thousand eggs on them or something. Millions. They notch the tail to show that they're a breeder. Exactly. And they have to put it back in the water and everything like that. So that's what's been on my For You page for anyone that's wondering. It's wild what pops up on those things sometimes. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, commercial crabber, which I never...

Never achieved that. It's kind of a dying industry, but, you know, whatever. Did you get in any trouble in high school? Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I got... I mean, nothing major until my junior year. I was kicked out my junior year for the assault that eventually landed me in prison. All right, so walk us through that. Tell us what happened. Yeah, so... Junior year of high school, correct? I was in my junior year. Basically, we were just...

Bad teenagers. And we were kind of selling weed, selling whatever. And somebody robbed my friend and we were just trying to like, you know, get it back, like talk to the guys, work out a solution. Obviously they weren't getting it back. We should have known. And we were, it was mischief night. We were about to go do some mischief and we see these kids riding their bikes through towns who had just robbed my friend and

And we stop them and we're like, Hey, like, like what, what the fuck guys? Like, come on. And, um, one of those guys, he reaches in the car and smacks my friend in the face. And we're like, all right, like time to do something here. Um, so then they're like, if you guys want to fight us, just meet us back here. So we, um, get out. And for some reason I put a baseball bat down my pants, down my sweatpants. Don't know why just a dumb kid, huge mistake. Um,

And we're following them for like a mile. There may be like a hundred yards ahead of us. And we end up in this like section eight apartment complex. And they like turned around, like they wanted to like make friends and make things right. But they did like this weird sneak attack on us. And so like my boy and the one kid start popping off, they start fighting. My boy has the kid on the ground. He's beating him up.

One of their friends sees the writing on the wall. He just takes off running. So there's now four of us and two of them. But the one that stayed, I could see him trying to angle around the fight to get in on it. And I pulled out the bat, dumbass. And I'm like, yo, stop. Let him fight. Let him take his beating or whatever. And he sprinted at me. And it just all happened so quick. And I hit him. And it was one of those moments that just you know you fucked up the second you did it.

And, um, and then after that, we made a bunch of other mistakes. Like we hit the baseball bat and other charge. Like, so, um, what happened to him when you hit him? Oh, it was a moment I'll never forget. He, he just dropped and, uh, was rolling around on the ground. He made this noise. I, I can still hear to this day like that. I'll never forget. Um, and I thought, I thought I killed him. Like I thought I messed up really bad. And, um,

Yeah. So he, I guess he had a couple of fractures in his skull. He ended up being fine, but still you can't, you can't do that. You know what I mean? And so we, we, we run back to the cars, we hide all, hide the bat. I called a girl I was dating at the time and I'm like, Hey, like I just, can I come see you at work? Or she's like, I'll come meet you in this parking lot. And I'm like, Hey, like I just, I messed up real bad tonight and I just want to say bye. And

Went home, told my parents and well, they immediately get on the phone with the lawyer and the lawyer's just like, don't say a fucking word. Call your friends. Don't tell them. Don't say a word. They said they have to prove you did this. You know what I mean? And so, and he's like, go to school. Don't run away. Just do everything normal. If they come and arrest you, call me. Like, so I go to school next morning. I'm in first period. Vice principal walks in. He says, Phil, come on, let's go. And I'm,

Walked me down to the principal's office and the second I walk in the door these four cops just grabbed me up and pushed me against the wall and they and I'm like, all right Well, I guess you know that's out of the way. Um so They they did the same thing to each of us individually. Um, they called us all down one by one um, so we all go to the police station, um and Obviously, I didn't say anything. Um, one of my other friends didn't say anything either. Um

But eventually they talked to my friends and it's telling everything that happened. So I'm just kind of cooked like right from the beginning. So, yeah, I got assault with a deadly weapon, a couple counts of harassment, second degree conspiracy. And I don't know if there was maybe a couple other light misdemeanors, something like that. And they not only did they charge me, they charged all my friends with that, too, who they didn't.

really have anything to, I mean, they were there, but they didn't really have anything to do with it. It's just more motivation for them to talk. You know what I mean? And basically we all have no contact orders. We're all still hanging out anyway. And, you know, a couple of months down the road, one of them gets a plea bargain, you know, level one probation. That just means in Delaware, don't get in trouble again. Another one, level one, unsupervised third one. And I'm just thinking like, man, what about me? Like, like,

When am I going to find out my sentence? And I was just sitting on my couch and my mom comes in with a letter from my lawyer and it says, it was forwarded, it was between my lawyer and the prosecutor, but he forwarded it to me also. And it said, you know, thank you for considering six months level five bootcamp, level five correctional bootcamp at Sussex Correctional Institute. Yeah.

And so like we have a meeting with him and he's like, look, dude, you messed up here. Like you're going to get something. He said, this is the best I can do. We can go to trial. But like they they the evidence against you is just so stacked that, you know, I would not recommend that. I think that this plea bargain is I know you're young. I think that this is the way to go. So they waited until my 18th birthday.

um to sentence me and then two weeks later they um about two weeks later they put me in prison so would you have considered yourself a violent person at the time no not at all I think I was just a dumb kid um who didn't have any I didn't consider any consequences when I was doing that I maybe I just wanted to like um be one of the guys you know what I mean which I was and everything but you know I don't really have a good reason as to why I did that you know

Why do you think you didn't stay and make sure he was okay? You know, why did you choose to run away? It just all happened so fast. And, you know, his friend was there and like, I think his friend did end up like taking him away and they called and got a hold of an ambulance. But yeah, like when something like that happens, it's just everything's so quick. You don't know what to do sometimes. You know what I mean? So. Did it feel weird just going back to school like nothing happened? I was terrified.

Like I knew, I mean, I knew that they were going to come arrest me. And I just walked into first period, put my head on the desk, started sleeping and I'd slept until the principal got there. So why even go that far? Why not just turn yourself in when, you know, you knew? Well, it had only happened the night before and we weren't sure what, if they were even going to tell on me, if that makes sense. And yeah,

That was what my lawyer also said to do. He just said, act like normal. You know what I mean? And just, he said, whatever you do, don't run. Just, just go to school. You know what I mean? How did your parents react to your arrest and the situation? Absolutely horrified. You know, that's, they did not have words for any of that. And they, they were taken by surprise. They thought I was just like, maybe like a troubled kid who would find his way eventually. And then all this happened. What did you end up getting sentenced to? Yeah.

So I was sentenced to four years in prison, suspended for six months. Prices keep going up these days. It feels like being on an elevator that only goes up. But not at Metro. We're pushing the down button.

We've lowered prices. Get one line of 5G data for $40. Period. That's 20% lower. And you get a free Samsung 5G phone when you bring your number. Only at Metro. Five-year guarantee on eligible plans. Exclusions apply. See website for details. Not available if at Metro or T-Mobile in the past six months. Tax applies.

The NBA playoffs are here, and I'm getting my bets in on FanDuel. Talk to me, Chuck GPT. What do you know? All sorts of interesting stuff. Even Charles Barkley's greatest fear. Hey, nobody needs to know that. New customers bet $5 to get 200 in bonus bets if you win FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.

21 plus and present in Illinois. Must be first online real money wager. $5 deposit required. Bonus issued is non-withdrawable bonus pass that expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanduel.com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. That's correctional boot camp. And what is correctional boot camp for people to know? So, all right, Delaware, a little mini state, total inmate population of 5,000. So they said, you know,

I would assume they, okay, if we can make a bootcamp, get some discipline in some of these offenders' lives that qualify, you know, and we can get, you know, 100 offenders a year not to go out and re-offend, that could make a big difference in the crime, the whole crime, you know, in all the crime in Delaware, essentially. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And had you heard anything about it before? Did you know anyone that was there? No. Had you watched any like prison shows or anything? I watched the one about Miami Dade. Uh, there was a, there's a boot, there's a bootcamp in Miami Dade jail or prison or something. Um, and that was a, uh,

compared to what I went through at this fucking place. Now, did they, when they sentenced you, did they haul you away right then and there or you had time to surrender? Yeah, so the day I was sentenced, I was instantly on level three probation. I had to go to the, like in the basement of the courthouse and get my probation officer. So I think they gave me about two weeks and my probation officer called me one morning and he said, hey, be outside your steps at 7 a.m.

I'm going to pick you up. Oh, he picks you up? My probation officer took me to, it's kind of funny. So like I get in the car and he hands me a pair of handcuffs and he's like, hey man, just put these on before we get to the jail. Well, I buckle the seatbelt, then put the handcuffs on. So when I go to get out, I can't because the seatbelt and the guard is like, yo, why did you do that? Like, and he's like, yeah, you're a fucking idiot. Like, why'd you, you know what I mean?

Wow, that's funny he had you put the handcuffs on. Yeah, he just handed them to me and he said, here man, just sometime between now and we get to the prison. What was he telling you in the car? I don't remember. I don't think we were even really talking. I think he might have been like something to the effect of like, hey, like when you get out, like I'm going to be your PO and like this is what this is going to be like and here's what to expect. And yeah, it was a lot worse than what he said.

said it was going to be how tough was that time period from when the day you got arrested until when you actually got sentenced because you were you got kicked out of school yeah yeah they kicked me out of school for out of school conduct so people are probably you know talking about you yeah talk of the whole town what were you doing um at this point it just that i don't give a shit mentality you know what i mean like um just out doing bad stuff drinking all the time um

Just I wasn't in school. So like, you know, I'm just hanging out with my friends. I just got arrested with and we're just I don't know, doing dumb, dumb teenager stuff. You know, were your parents starting to get more strict on you or they keeping you under a tight leash? So my parents lost control of me at a pretty young age. I don't want to say they gave up, but like they I was just they're such nice people. I was just able to outmaneuver them so easily. Yeah.

Um, and anything they said, I always had an answer. I always had a plan. I always had it all figured out. You know what I mean? I think we've all been there before. I bet. I know you put your parents through it too, Ian. Yeah. And my, my, what started my whole thing was Mischief Night 2. That was. Really? That's what started it all. Yeah. We were just about to go like TP houses. It just, nothing crazy. Like, um, and that's, yeah, that's when it all started.

It all kicked off. So walk us through from the moment you got dropped off at the facility. Tell us what you're seeing, how you're feeling, what happened. So at this point, it hadn't really hit me, like just exactly what was going to happen to me. And, you know, I'm in booking and receiving. And obviously all the inmates are in white jumpsuits and black.

They go, you know, they get me changed. They search me. They do all that. Well, they hand me these like green khaki pants with a green shirt and black boots. And he's like, yeah, these are what the people at boot camp wear. And I'm just like, okay. He's like, you know, go sit over there. They did the whole medical, the TB test, just the normal stuff that happens when you get arrested, when you go to jail or prison. And, you know, I'm there for a couple hours and I see, obviously,

you know what a guard looks like um when you're in prison they have the at least in Delaware they have the the blue shirts with the blue pants well I see a guy walking up in all black with like a I thought it was like a cowboy hat but I guess it was like a drill instructor hat um and he walks up to me and he just starts screaming at me you know get up get the fuck up let's go we're going and he takes me to medical and like at this point it became very real to me like about about what I was about to go through you know what I mean and um

So in this whole time in medical, he's like, there were like a lot of female nurses and stuff down there. And I don't know if he was like trying to impress them, but he was just like up in my face, pushing me, just, just not, um, not being a very nice guy. Um, so we finished there at this point, I'm, I'm just bawling my eyes out as we're walking from medical to the building. And, um, so we get to the building and, um,

I mean the guy could see that i'd been crying or whatever and um He looks at me and he's like hey, dude I would do yourself a favor and get those fucking tears out of your eyes before they put you in this bay And i'm i'm like, okay i'll do my best and um Like I was I looked so young I look like a 14 year old and I walk in there and I could just see the faces of the guys on the pod and they're all just like Like who is this guy? This is very strange. Um and um

you know, immediately, like it wasn't really racially segregated cause we're all doing six months. We're all getting out on the same day. But like, I just immediately went to like the white guys and was like, Hey, like what's up? And they're like, you know, we would talk for a little bit. And, um, then it just, it hit me more and more about just where I was at and just that I couldn't get out of there. Um, and like, I, and then I started crying again in the middle of the, of the bay. And, um, one of the guys, he's like, Hey man, um,

do yourself a favor, tell them you're going to kill yourself. And you know what happens when you say that, right? And he's like, they'll send you somewhere better, man. They'll give you a TV and you'll be able to call home. And so I go up to the guard and I'm like, hey man, I'm going to kill myself. He's like, you sure you want to say that? And I'm like, yeah.

He's like, all right, let's go. And they take me down to medical again. I was just there a couple of hours before. Well, in Delaware, when you say you're going to kill yourself or somebody else, they put you in the padded room. A lot of prisons I've seen, like they wear like the green smocks, not the case in Delaware. The turtle suit. Yeah. Well, they give you a paper smock, which they were out of. So I was in there ass naked, naked.

This is going in the 4th of July weekend. And in order to get out of there, you have to see a psychiatrist. Well, there's no doctors at that prison for like five days. So I'm stuck in this room for five days. It's freezing cold. People were like looking in like the, in the glass at me. Like it was, it was really bad. And that was when I realized that I needed to get back to bootcamp and take my chances over there. So like, you know,

Couple days roll around, psych doctor. I'm like, I messed up, dude. Somebody just told me to say that. And he's like, okay, we'll get you back into that boot camp. We'll give you another try. And I go in there and like... So like at that boot camp, it's based off the boot camp in Miami-Dade. All the drill instructors, they would send them down there for two weeks and they would be trained by their drill instructors on how to be one essentially. And so...

You know, your first two months there, they're just torturing you. Um, no phone calls, no visits. You could write, that's it. Um, and second two months, you could have, um, visits through glass one weekend and phone calls the next. In your third two months, you could be on the phone after five and get a visit every weekend in person. Um, but while I was there, um,

the so like there's kind of i noticed like three types of drill instructors in this facility like you have the good ones who want to help us and then the ones that just want to do their their their eight and go home and then you have the psychopaths the ones that would like torture us and like um do all kinds of crazy shit to us and you know just stuff stuff like that um

So was everyone in the pod starting on day one, like for the bootcamp? So you had said that everyone's there for the six months. So is it like every time there's a new group of people, they start fresh? Yeah. So every two months there's three pods in there. Every two months one would graduate and they would repopulate that pod with people that had been like, let's say like you are in a Delaware prison on a gun charge and you have an ounce of cocaine, just give it an example. Um,

And you get nine years. So what you could do if you're doing under 10 years, you could write your judge and say, I want to get a modification instead of nine years. I want to do six months correctional boot camp. Wait, they'll trade nine years in prison for six months boot camp? Yeah. I mean, if you met the criteria, you couldn't be in there for a sex offense. You could be a sex offender, but you could not be in that in prison at that time for a sex offense. And it had to be nonviolent. So also, let me back up a little bit. My lawyer got all the nonviolent stuff done.

I mean, all the violent stuff dropped. So my only conviction was secondary conspiracy, which is like the lightest felony. So at that point, why didn't they just give you probation then if they're going to drop the assault? Somebody had to do some time for it. And I was the one. Yeah.

So when you get in there, everyone's on day one though? They're all coming from different prisons. So there might be like a seven-day window where like they'll be bringing people in. But don't wait to start the actual boot camp until everyone's there. Yeah. And we're all getting out on the exact same day. So you're all on the same playing field. Like no one knows what's about to happen. Yeah. Okay. And like that eliminated like –

All the violence and stuff, you know what I mean? Just because everyone... Like, there's a light at the end of the tunnel at that point, you know? Now, is this pod where you're staying the whole boot camp or is that just a holding spot till you start? No, that was at the boot camp. Okay, so you're in this unit or whatever. Yeah. And what is it? Just like a tier or pod? It's a pod, but there was three of them in the building. And then, like, the...

the place where the guards were had the two-way mirrors and they could see into all three pods. You know what I mean? And you're in bunk beds, cells? Is it like a barracks? No. I would imagine it being something similar to a regular pod. So actual cells? Yeah.

No, it was an open dorm. Open dorm, okay. Yeah, open dorm. Now, are there guards or are they just the drill instructors? So, they were guards that had done this training program in Miami-Dade and were now drill instructors. And I think it was like a pay raise for them if they went from CO to drill instructor. And also like instead of being a CO, it's an automatic promotion too. Yeah, once you complete that training in Miami. Okay.

So how long were you in limbo before the program actually started? I was the last one there. Everybody was there already. They were all waiting for me. So the next day was when it started? Yes. After you got over the suicide watch situation? They kind of let me slide on that. Like all their time had already started and I was in that cell for five days and they brought me back and they just let me slide on the five days. You know what I mean? Okay. So tell us, you know, day one of boot camp. What's that like? A lot of...

Drill instructors up in your face, yelling at you, making you do pushups. Um, just, just messing with you, trying to get in your head. Like the motto behind like any bootcamp, whether it's military, correctional, anything is they want to break you down, build you back up with some confidence. Well, all these people did was break us down. Like they never like rebuilt us, if that makes sense. Um, and they were just, just messing with us. Um, and yeah,

Obviously they had rules to follow. You know, we'd count at certain times, you know, stuff like that. But it was just, they were just torturing us pretty much. What time's wake up? Five. 5 a.m. Yeah. And do you go to breakfast first or are you doing some type of activity? The way a normal day would start, once you're there for a little while, you know, like your body wakes itself up because they pop the doors and they all just come in screaming, blowing whistles. So like your body kind of builds this alarm clock to wake up like five minutes before they come in. So you're already awake.

Um, but like a normal day at that bootcamp, um, you know, wake up at five. Um, we would be counted just like a normal prison. Um, and then we'd fall out. We could brush our teeth, you know, do, um, whatever hygiene stuff, I think for like 15 minutes. Um, and then we would go outside, we would do PT, which is just running pushups, you know, stuff like that. Um,

Come back in, go to breakfast. And like after breakfast, there was a little bit of downtime. So that's when the guards were coming in, messing with us. And something, something else they did that was pretty messed up was they would just never let us fall out. They would keep us on this line after breakfast till lunch, back on the line after lunch till dinner,

So I don't know if you've ever stood in one spot for more than a few hours, but it becomes painful. And people were like pissing themselves and like something they definitely should not have been doing. How could you get disqualified from the program? Like kicked out? Were people getting kicked out? I didn't see anyone get kicked out. If you like, say, let's just say you get in a fight and get called. People would fight, but it would be in the bathrooms where they couldn't see him. If you get in a fight, it's out in the open, you get called. They would just back you up two months.

So you instead of doing six months boot camp you would do eight months boot camp and

Yeah, I think everybody that I was with stayed and we all got out on the same day. Was it just PT every day or was there like fun activities or maybe like exercises or going through tires, climbing over walls, anything like that when you hear the word bootcamp? I mean, a lot of like pushups, a lot of sit-ups. They did have a sandpit, which you don't want to be in a sandpit in July. It's hot and it sucks and you just feel disgusting. Yeah.

Um, and they would do like other military stuff. Um, a lot of, um, it was just, you had to be in like a military bearing all day. You know, you walked in lines, you, we would do a lot of marching like around the, around the prison. Um, just, yeah, stuff like that. It was, it was pretty unorganized there at that point. I think it had, it had gone off the rails a little bit. How was the food there? Horrible. They starved us. So they, um, they said that since we were like, um,

more physically active than a normal inmate because we're running and doing pushups and stuff that they fed us extra. But I think they might've fed, fed us less to be honest. And like, I remember we couldn't have any food there on commissary. So you could get 10 packs of halls every week and tons, calls, cough drops and Tums and people. I mean, we would, I would eat calls constantly just cause I was so hungry and the portions were so little that,

Um, and there were, uh, there was one time, um, did you ever have like, I think it's like sweet potato casserole when you were in? I don't think we had sweet potato. I don't think we had any type of casserole. It was, um, I guess that was the idea behind it, but it was just, and it's dinner. We're all starving. It was just like this orange liquid that they like dumped on my plate. And I'm like, I might as well have had nothing. You know what I mean? And, um.

And it was weird, like, even though we were all physically active, like, we all, like, got these, like, real big stomachs, if that makes sense. I don't know. It was really weird. Probably from the sodium? I don't—I have no idea what that was about. But—and it fell off once I left, but— So, was it just the same meals all the time, or were they switched up? It was like that—whatever the rest of the prison was eating, we would eat. Oh, so you got normal prison food. Yeah. Just minus commissary. Yeah. And a lot of it was—

unedible and I mean if you're going to eat that or nothing you're going to eat it you know what I mean but it was a struggle what's the age group of the individuals there 18 and above so if you are if you're 18 and you're physically able to do this boot camp then you know that they would let you in if you qualified with your charges did you see older guys there

There were a couple older guys. I'd say no one older than 50, though. But yeah, there were a couple old heads in there. Are you allowed visits? Not the first two months. Second two months, we could... Every other weekend, we could have a visit through Glass. What about phone calls? Every other weekend. And then the third two months...

We could use the phones after five and visits every weekend. Now on the weekends, what are you doing? They're just torturing us. I mean, it's just a seven days a week. Yeah. And like, I remember like they would like have us out outside doing pushups and like the, you know, July, August. And like I have blisters all over my hands and like every day, like I had blisters on blisters on blisters, like,

I mean, sit-ups, just a lot of like stuff that they, you know, that you know not to do something like that to somebody. You know what I mean? What time are you done for the day? I say things kind of settle down about 5, 5.30, but like they would still come on there. And like there were days where they would just make us stand in line. I mean, probably 12 hours a day. You can't move, just hands down to your side, feet at a 45 degree angle all day. Yeah.

And it was not what they intended it to be. Like, I'll say that much. Wow. Yeah. And then do you get TV time at night? No, no, no, no TV. So there was no TV at all the six months? So what did... I guess everyone's just so exhausted, they're falling asleep? Yeah, I mean, nighttime, like, we found stuff to do. Like, you could write letters. You could do schoolwork. Any cards? No, no recreational activities in there. You had to have, like...

like a set of like clothes of like green khakis that you wore daily. And then you had to have like a white pair that you wore to like, um, the classes. Does that make sense? Like, so we would iron our clothes and make them look all pretty. And if your clothes weren't ironed, right, they would kind of mess with you more. Um, and yeah, it was, uh, I don't know, not a very good time. Don't recommend it. What about your GED? Did they make you get that? Yeah. So about the GED. So, um,

so the day I get back from medical, they gave me like a test. Um, and I was just like, so distraught from being there that like, um, I failed this test so bad. I'm just doing like, see, see, see, see, like on the, on the bubbles. Um, and they, uh, she's like, you know, you have like, um, you're at about a second grade level, the teacher. And I'm just like, okay. Um,

And so I'm doing like, everyone else is doing like algebra and stuff. I'm doing like plus, you know, addition and subtraction. And like, and then I realized like, okay, that's not so bad. Let me just focus, not worry about school. I can just do this bullshit schoolwork that a second grader does until I get out of here. And then I'll worry about my GED and everything.

Yeah, that was pretty much the schooling for me. When your family was allowed to come visit you, did they? Were they supportive? Yeah, every chance they could. But it was very uncomfortable having my family come there because... So all of the visits in the prison outside of this building were in one room right in the front of the jail. Well, they didn't want to let us have visits in there. So they would have to take your family, walk them through the compound with one guard and

past all the convicts and they're all lined up at the fence whistling, you know, stuff like that. And like, it was very uncomfortable watching them because I could see them through the windows when they would come like down for the visits. And yeah, it was, and they came every chance they could. When you were in there, were you thinking about how your life would be after you got out? No, I was just- What you were going to do, how you were going to live with a felony on your record? No, I was just trying to survive at that point. Yeah.

So when you're preparing to leave the boot camp, are they preparing you for anything? Are they helping you with a job? No, no. They release you onto level... Well, we were all sentenced differently. Some of them got home confinement. I was sentenced to a year level three probation, which I don't know how you guys do it here. But like basically that's...

you know, you got to go to your probation officer every week. Like I, I think a 10 o'clock curfew drug tested every week. And he would come see me like maybe like once every two weeks. And he always had like a state cop, Delaware state cop with him when he would,

pop in on me. He would have a cop with him? Yeah. Is that normal? It's called Operation Safe Streets. And yeah, it was normal. If you're on level three probation, I don't think they wanted to just send probation officers out by themselves without a cop because it's, you know, kind of a volatile environment.

um at some of these people's houses what was your plan to go to college or did you want to i didn't i didn't really have a plan after that um did you get a job did you find yeah so i got out and like i got a job um and it was at a candy shop in rohovath um and yeah i know it's funny um and you know i i did that for a while after that like i i got into the whole restaurant bartending serving thing for for a long time um was it hard to find work with the charges

No, I mean, I guess technically you didn't have a violent charge when they dropped it, right? It was still a felony, but it's not considered violent. So like in the particular area I live in, it's a very like touristy area, especially in the summer. So you can go down there same day, get a job. You can pretty much have your pick.

of jobs. Was your, um, incident publicized in the newspaper? Did people know who you were? Yeah. Yeah. They, they didn't post any names though. Cause we were minors. Yeah. I guess that's a one positive too. Oh yeah. Yeah. Everyone knew who it was. When you got out, were you experimenting with any drugs or alcohol at all? No. Like I ran my probation the right way. I was, I was in my house every night. I had a job. Um, I, um, did exactly what my PO said to do. Um,

And I was not doing anything when I got out. I was so scared and traumatized. And yeah, from that. Did that change after you get off probation? Yeah. Like, you know, that might've straightened me up for a little bit, but like the, the way I'm,

He was a very tough probation officer. He always bragged that he had the highest recidivism of any probation officer. And I'm just like, yeah, whatever. So that's not good then. Horrible. Probably the worst probation officer I could have had. But he kept me straight. You know what I mean? God, there was one time my brother was home. He's in the military. And I'm at work and he was just stopping by. And he said something to my mom.

He's like, Miss Gap, I think your son, I think he's going to end up back in jail. Well, she loses her shit. She's screaming at him, like, get the fuck out of her house and don't talk about her son like that. Like, my brother's there. He's a career Marine. He don't know what to do. He doesn't want to get in between it. And after that, he really, like, he chilled out. You know what I mean? He was still a jerk, but he... You're lucky he didn't violate you for that. I mean, something my mom did, like... I don't know. He could have just had a vendetta or anything. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think he would have taken it that far, but it's hard to say. He eventually, I mean, I'm talking to like my friends at the other probation office in a different county and they're like, yeah, I haven't even been drug tested yet. This guy's drug testing me every week at my house, you know, all the time. And so like he's in the reserves. Well, he gets called up.

So I go on one day and instead of going to his office, they sent me to a different office. Well, it's his supervisor and he's like, Mr. Scapp, you've had 29 clean drug tests. You have zero curfew violations. You don't owe any fines. Like, why are you still on probation? And I'm like, I don't know, man. Ask him. I don't know. He's like, okay, I'm going to release you today. So you're free to go. You don't have to come back here ever again. So I was off probation after that. And it was...

it was a good feeling once you get off probation. Was it hard going from so much structure, like those last, you know, months and years of your teenage years being under probation and the bootcamp to then kind of being free? Um, yeah, I think I had some pretty bad PTSD from the jail. It's weird. Like when you're in, when you're in prison, I guess, um,

When you're asleep, you dream that you're outside the prison and you wake up and you're there. And then when you're out of jail, you have dreams that you're back in prison. And like, I would have real bad night terrors and like panic attacks. And it was just...

um, yeah, I w I was having some like mental health issues after that. What were you doing to cope with that? How did you, uh, I mean, I was just kind of dealing with it until, um, until those opioids got in my system. You know what I mean? And that's just how I essentially deal with it, dealt with it for the next 10 years. How did you discover opioids? So like, you know, in high school, I, you know, eating a Vicodin here or there, whatever, nothing crazy. I think most teens might do something like that. But, um,

I was 19 years old, fresh off probation. My buddy was having a party and there was a kid there acting up and we threw him out. We're like, go to your car, just leave, man. And we walk him out to his car and I'm walking back. I'm at the back of the pack. Well, he comes up behind me and sucker punches me and shatters my jaw.

Um, and it's right in the middle of the opioid heyday when they're just writing them like Skittles essentially. And, um, I remember like waking up on the ground, like telling my friends, like, yo, my, something's wrong with my jaw. Like it doesn't line up. My, my teeth don't line up. And, uh, they're like, ah, dude, you'll be fine. Like just, and I'm like, well, if this isn't better by tomorrow, I'm going to the hospital. So I go to the hospital and they like test me for a concussion and, and, um, do an x-ray on my jaw. And the doctor comes and he's like,

Good news and bad news. Good news, you don't have a concussion. Bad news, your jaw shattered. And you now have to have your jaw wired shut for six weeks. And that's actually a very intense invasive surgery. So they drill through your gums like six times on the top, six times on the bottom and cinch your jaw shut. And that requires some pain medicine. And

That was like my first real experience with it when I'm like, oh, this shit, like it makes me feel better. Like I want this every day. You know what I mean? When you got hit, were you like, oh my God, here we go again. Like this is another fight. I'm going back to prison. No, he knocked me out. I was asleep in the snow. And I, I mean, I bounced back up pretty quick, but yeah.

Yeah, they just got him in his car and he left essentially. And you weren't looking to get any retaliation or anything? I saw him years later. We talked. He's like, hey, man, I'm sorry. I said, yeah, we were kids, dude. Like, it's cool. So where does it start to shift from using the medicine just to help you because of your surgery to now, you know, you're using it, you know? So I will say that, well, my dad being a pharmacist, you know, he walks in the room and he sees how much pain medicine I'm on. He's like, Phil, like,

this is a lot of pain medicine. He said, I have people coming in with cancer that aren't on this much. And I'm like, I know, but it's from the doctor. I'm good. Yeah. So I would say, well, and I had like, I'd go back to this doctor like, oh man, one more thing. So when you have your jaw wired shut, you can't open your mouth. I had to have liquid pain medicine. So liquid Roxaset, liquid morphine,

And I like went to the doctor and like, yeah, man, I knocked the bottle into the sink when it was unscrewed. Like, can I have another one? He's like, yeah. And I think I ended up getting maybe like three of these like one liter bottles of liquid rock. And finally he's like, look, dude, this is your last one. Like you're fine after this. And I would say by the time I was done that prescription, I was almost a full blown addict.

Wow. Wait, so when you had your jaw wired shut, could you eat regular food? No, you can't eat. So what do you do? Ensure. Mashed potatoes. That's it? Yeah. And I was looking bad, man. You were probably skinny as a toy. I was looking like a Holocaust victim. You're still skinny now. Yeah, wow. Yeah, yeah. I was, I mean, same height, but maybe 120 pounds. And are you working at this time? I don't think I had a job at that point, no. So how would you start?

getting money for pills and everything like that. Did insurance cover that when you kept using your prescription? I mean, yeah, the insurance covered the whole thing. I was, I think I was under my dad's insurance back then, but they paid for all that. But, you know, once you get off and you're an addict, you got to, you're on your own. You got to figure it out. And I had a lot of friends that were using, we would, I don't, this, nothing too crazy, but like, you know, steal stuff. I had, I'd,

I was usually able to hold down a job during my addiction. But basically, you know, if I'm serving tables somewhere and I get a hundred bucks, well, I'm calling the guy to come to the restaurant and 90 of it's going for pills. You know what I mean? Did your parents try to intervene at all? I mean, your dad saw that you had an excessive amount of drugs. Yeah, they did what they could. They really, really tried. I mean, at this point, I'd been to detox, rehab, all the traditional things.

uh, stuff and it just wasn't quite working on me, but they, they tried everything within their power to, to keep me off of drugs. So what happens next as your addiction continues? Yeah. So as my addiction continues, um, I'm basically just, um, you know, just trying to make it, I'm in and out of Oxford houses. Um, I, I do a stay in rehab, actually, let me back up. Um, and my, um,

And parents found like thousands and thousands of empty heroin baggies under my bed. And I call them and they're like, Phil, you can't come home, man. Like this is too much. And so my mom gets on the phone with my counselor and he's like, have you ever heard of Oxford House? And she's like, no. He's like, I'm going to talk to Phil about going there. Yeah.

Um, those are good places, but I just wasn't quite ready. So I just, you know, I was just living in Newark, just, um, you know, bouncing around jobs and stuff like that. Um, I, uh, I met a girl, um, and she was, she was fine. She was a nice girl. She wasn't an addict or anything. She was a bartender. Um, and, um, I'm just, at this point, I'm, I'm kicked out of all the Oxford houses. I'm living in a hotel. Um,

Um, and I'm taking her car up to Kensington every night. I don't know if you know anything about Kensington, Philadelphia. Um, you know, getting, getting hair, I don't know what it was supposedly heroin. It didn't feel like heroin to me, but, um, and, you know, coming back and I remember her like calling me and she's like, feel like it's two o'clock in the morning. I'm walking home from work. Where's my car? I got, it's a two mile walk and I'm like, Oh, like I'll just be home, whatever. Um, so like, obviously she wasn't going to put up with that for very long. Um,

And I thought I had it all figured out. And, um, so basically, um, we were fighting and I'm like, just, just take me back to my parents. And she said, okay, that's fine. Um, she took me back to my parents that night. And, um, she said that I, I'd FaceTimed her about like midnight, but, um, you know, I realized like, I don't have any money. I don't have a car. I had a cell phone, but that was it. Um,

And I'm like, what am I going to like do to not get sick? And I knew that like my mom had some pain medicine somewhere in the house. They were camping in Ocean City, Maryland at the time. And so I have the house free reign in the house. So I'm digging through all the drawers. I'm digging through the dressers. And I find this bottle of stuff and it's called morphine sulfate extended release.

And I found them before and taken them when I, you know, they, it's probably like the most pointless pain medicine that ever existed. It just doesn't really do anything. But I had found out that if you take like, you know, 10, 15, you will, I wouldn't get sick. You know what I mean? So like I take a bunch of them. And this time I found some gabapentin too. So I take the gabapentin, you know,

And that's when I had my bad overdose. And the only time I've ever overdosed, just one time. And I was essentially dead. Do you remember what happened when you woke up? Like, do you recall anything from those moments? So, no, I don't have any recollection. Like, essentially...

I'd asked my sister the night before, I said, you know, can you run me to the pharmacy? I have some medicine. I don't know what kind of medicine it was. And she said, yeah, like I'll do that. I'll come get you when I get off of work. Well, like, you know, normally I would have texted her by then. So like 11 o'clock rolls around, I haven't text, 12, still nothing. One, well, she's working out of high school at the time.

And she'd like tell somebody, she's like, I gotta go check on my brother. They knew I wasn't doing very well. She said, I just got a bad feeling. Well, she comes to the house and finds me. And if it's okay, I'm just going to read a text from the paramedic that found me. He was just an acquaintance at the time, but he has actually become a very good friend in my life. And I just texted him and I asked him, I said, you know, would a normal person have survived something like that? And he said, in the condition you were in, no, to be honest, no.

If it would have happened and somebody was right there, yes. But when your sister found you, you had unknown downtime. You were already ashen. Your lips were blue. Your nail beds were blue. Your limbs were already cold. You had zero breathing. We started CPR on you and I checked your chest. They were still a little warm. We shot Narcan into your nose and made you breathe it in using a bag valve mask and zero respiratory drive. I was essentially dead.

And they didn't even know how long I was like that. So they shipped me off to the hospital. And at this point, like there's they pretty much, you know, said that I was dead, right?

Does an incident like that change your relationship with your sister? When, you know, her seeing you like that, being the one to report it and everything, does that change the dynamic? So she had a hard time seeing me like that. And obviously, like, I love my sister to death now. But she, I mean, she was like doing therapy and stuff. And it was just, it was a nightmare for her. I mean, she's trying to raise kids and a family and has a great husband. Like she's

This episode is brought to you by SelectQuote. Life insurance can have a huge impact on our family's future. With SelectQuote, getting covered with the right policy for you is simple and affordable. SelectQuote's licensed insurance agents will tailor your experience to find a life insurance policy for your needs in as little as 15 minutes. And SelectQuote partners with carriers that provide policies for many conditions. SelectQuote. They shop.

Go to selectquote.com slash SpotifyPod today to get started. She doesn't, addiction was nothing in her life. You know what I mean? What happens when you wake up? Oh, so I wake up and it was so weird. I wake up the first time, okay? And like they had given me less than a 5% chance to live. I had an anoxic brain injury.

So like a traumatic brain injury would be like where you hit your head and anoxic brain injury is from a lack of oxygen. I had two strokes, no organ function whatsoever. And I'd aspirated so much fluid into my lungs that they didn't even show up on the x-ray. So they're just like pretty much preparing my parents that like your son's probably going to die. My brother, he's in the military. They flew him home. He might've been in Iraq or Afghanistan, but

And they flew him back to Delaware from a war zone just to be by my side because I was essentially going to die. But the first time I woke up, it had to have been the middle of the night. And like anyone who overdoses, you can overdose for 30 seconds and you wake up, you don't know where you're at. You don't know what's going on, what happened to you. Well, I was in a coma for two weeks.

And I mean, I'd flatlined, I don't know, four or five times. And there was one time that was real bad. Basically, my mom's sitting there with my cousin holding my hand and she said all the machines started acting real weird. And she's like, "I'm gonna go out there and get somebody." I was in the ICU.

And she said, as she's walking out, all the doctors and nurses just come running in. They're all gowned up, gloves. And she said they kind of shuffled her out. But as they were shuffling her out, she said she saw a nurse jump on top of me and mount me and was doing chest compressions on me. And they were somehow able to bring me back.

Every time. When you wake up from being in a coma like that, how do you feel? I was on a lot of narcotics. How was your brain, like your memory, everything? So the first time I woke up, it's in the middle of the night. There's like a nurse just like on my computer, I would assume, or on a computer charting. And like, I'm just like, what happened? And I scare her and she jumps back. And like, she's like, oh shit, this guy's awake.

And I'm just like, what happened? You need to tell me what happened. Why am I here? And like, she like wouldn't tell me. And I think they probably do that for a reason. They don't want you to lose your mind or anything. And I'm just like so scared. And like, and I'm just like, if somebody doesn't tell me what the fuck just happened, I'm going to lose my shit and someone's going to get hurt.

Well, hospital staff, turns out they don't like it when you threaten them. So they sedated me again. And I went, I woke up a couple of days later and this time they did it like a lot slower. And like they made sure my, my family was there. My brother was there. My buddy, David flown in from California. My parents, everybody's there.

And like, I wake up again and they don't know what my brain's going to be like. They had said like, you know, he could be a vegetable or he could be normal, like probably something in between as far as, cause he just, I wasn't breathing for so long. Um, and, um, and I wake up again and I'm like, like what, what happened? Somebody needs to tell me what's going on here. Cause I don't know how I got here.

And there was a real beautiful, like Middle Eastern doctor standing in the back of the room. And she's like, Philip, like you're here because you got pneumonia. And I'm like, pneumonia? That shit didn't do that to me. I'm healthy. And then I see her and I see my brother. I'm like, yeah, yeah.

yo, she's hot, dude. Let's see what she's doing after. Maybe we can get her to the bars. And, um, well that, and they all start crying and losing their minds. And that's when they realized that like, I would have some assemblance of my old self, like that my brain was not just completely trash, which, um, it was bad for a lot of years, but, um, yeah. So that's what it's like waking up from an overdose. Did you have to relearn how to walk or anything? Yes. Uh, I was able to talk. I, I couldn't read. Um, I couldn't write, um, couldn't read a clock. Um,

Yeah, I had to relearn everything. Essentially, yeah. So does this make you get sober, this incident? No. You go right back to using drugs? So basically, man, I'm in that hospital. I was in a coma for two weeks. I was in the hospital, I think, 34 days total, something around there. And they finally released me and I'm...

I get home and I get back to my cell phone. Well, it's permanently locked. The Delaware State Police wanted to know what the fuck happened. They were trying to get into my phone and they completely disabled it. Back then, I don't know if you can still do it, but you could plug it into a computer and use iTunes to restore it. And I get it restored. Wi-Fi only didn't have money for cell phone service. And I'd say two weeks after I...

Um, got out of that hospital. I got a text and it was somebody I know. And he just said, got perks. And, uh, it like kind of set me into a frenzy. Um, and, um, I knew where my parents kept a spare debit card and I knew their pin and I go and I take it. And like, there was like a food line, a mile from my house. And like, I may have ran a four minute mile to this food line. I was running as fast as I can down these back roads, uh,

And, you know, I texted, I said before I left, yes, send it, pick me up at Food Lion. And so I get the money. He picks me up. I eat them. He takes me back to my house. Well, this is right when banks had started doing text alerts for like debit ATM withdrawals and stuff like that. So my dad gets a text that $60 had just been withdrawn and

And he's waiting at the door for me. And like, he was so mad. Like he might've had an out of body experience. He was just so mad. And like, he just grabbed me and he's like shaking me. He's like, what do I have to do to fix you? Like, we almost just lost you. Like, what do you want me to do here, Phil? And I'm like, I don't know, dad. I don't have a good answer for you.

Um, and like, I'd, I'd imagine that that was a really rough night for them. Cause I just somehow survived, got out of the hospital and now I'm back doing the same shit again. Um, so like they're trying to find something to do with me somewhere that can, you know, help save me. And, um, I'd had a couple of friends, one of them, um, he, he did very well at teen challenge and he, he, um, he's still doing well to this day. Um,

Um, and I had a friend that was also working there as an intern. Um, and he's like, yo dude, why don't you come to a teen challenge? Like I'll look out for you. I'll make sure you're taken care of. And I'm like, no, I ain't going to that man. That place is crazy. Like I've heard stories. I heard it's a call. He's like, no, it's not a call. It's fine to just come here. Like you'll be all right. Um, I go there. That dude didn't do a fucking thing for me, dude. I don't even think I saw him when I was there. When I, when I finally went there. Um, and yeah,

So like I go there and my brain is just so messed up from the overdose. Like I still can't read barely. Um, I was in a very, very bad state and like they, they should have, I'm not going to say anything bad about teen challenge because it does help people, but they should have 100% vetted me out of that program somehow. Cause I did not belong there in that state. And, um,

So like I'm there for like six weeks and I'm just miserable, not talking to nobody. I'm just minding my own business. And like, I wake up one morning and we, you have to read the Bible for a half hour when you wake up every morning. And I'm like, I'm talking to the guy, like the worker. And I'm like, yo dude, I can't read this. Like the writing's too small. The words are too big. And the whole time, instead of getting me therapy, they're just like, Jesus will heal you. Like Jesus will, will take, take control and he's going to heal you and you're going to be okay. And, um,

I'm just like, whatever. And finally, like this was the last straw when this guy, he's just like, go pray or pretend like you're reading. And I'm like, I'm escaping. I'm done here. I'm going to leave here today. So like I go about the morning, I don't tell anybody. And I waited for like a good opportunity. So basically we were like watching a Jesus movie or something and I get up

I see that there's no staff around. I go to the door, exit, make a left, jump a fence, and then I'm free. I'm not a teen challenge anymore. And yeah, that was a short stay. So, and after I leave, I'm like walking on the street. I'm like, like, what do I do now? Like, I don't know. I don't know. I didn't really think about what I was going to do after I left. And I know that there's a hospital nearby. So let me just walk to the hospital. So like, you know, I walked to the ER and,

And like, I wait my turn in line and I go up to the lady and I'm like, Hey, um, you know, I don't really have a medical emergency, but do you guys have like a social worker or somebody here that I can talk to that can like, um, you know, help me find a place to stay. And she's like, this is a hospital. Like we don't, that's not what we do here. Um, and she's like, but there is a homeless shelter that opens when it's under 40 degrees. It's called code purple. Uh, why don't you go down there? And that would at least be a bed for you for the night until you can. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. So like, um,

It was, she told me where it was at and it was maybe like a quarter mile away. And like my brain was just so ravaged. It took me like four hours to find it. And I finally find it. And I walk in there, I'm wearing like khakis, gelled hair, button down shirt with a nice jacket. And I go up to the lady and she's like, hi, like who are you? And I'm like, I'm here to stay. And she's looking at me. She's like, you aren't normally like the type of person we see here. And I'm like, I know, I know. Like I just ran away from Teen Challenge. I just need somewhere to stay for the night.

And that lady, her name's Nikki, she actually really helped me and went above and beyond for me that night. And I think she knew that I didn't really fit that demographic very well. And she's like, okay, like, I'm going to talk to you in a little bit. And I said, okay. And I said, if anyone from Teen Challenge comes here, tell them I'm not here. I'm like, I'm hiding out from them. I don't want to deal with them people anymore.

um well a couple hours later they showed up it was two of them it was my boy and another guy who was actually paid and like i think my boy had gotten it that like i shouldn't be there and um they're like trying to like get me to go back and so the guy's like coming up and he's talking to me and he's holding me and he's like trying to like pray for me and my boy's behind him he's going don't go back don't go back don't and i'm like okay like

Um, and then he had to, he had to pretend to try and get me to go back. And he, and, um, the guy would walk away. He's like, yo, Phil, like you need more than this right now. Like, don't go back, just go figure something else out. But he's working there. So he had to like play their game or whatever. Um, and, um, so Nikki, um, was able to get me into an Oxford house in Sussex County. So my first Oxford houses were in Newcastle, but the, the ones in Sussex County, they're, they're a lot better and they're, they're very well ran. Um,

So like I go there and, um, you know, the, the, the outreach worker came and picked me up and I think I had to come up with like $275 entry fee, which they don't do that anymore. You can come in the houses with no money, but, um, it was different back then. Um, he, uh, comes and gets me, he takes me to the house. We have an interview, they accept me. Um, and like, I'd say at that point I strung, strung together about a year of

clean time. I got a job at a chicken processing plant and my job was to hang chickens, 22 birds a minute, eight to 12 hours a night. And it was actually, um, good therapy for me because no one's bothered me. I'm just hanging chickens. I can focus on one thing. And like, I stuck that out for probably about six months. And then I, I, I fucked up. And when I got another bartending serving job down at the beach and, um,

you know, the amount of money that you're making down there, especially in the summer and just the temptation and stuff like that. I ended up, um, relapsing and, uh, getting kicked out of there. So what happens after that? So I, uh, like I'm these guys I'm living with, like they know something's up. And like, I, I literally, I said tonight, I'm going to call a house meeting and I'm going to tell him myself and tell him, you know, that I'm just going to go, uh,

and i'm leaving work i text everyone like hey is anyone home can we just have a little house meeting i just want to talk to y'all um i get back to the house and they're like yo phil like we already knew like we were actually drug testing you tonight so um and i'm like yeah guys i'm sorry like i fucked up but the good thing about oxford houses man like you can just because you get kicked out you're not banned from them you can go to as many as you want they will give you as many tries as it takes to make it an oxford house and i'll get into them a little more later but um

Um, so I pack all my shit and show up on my parents' doorstep again. And, um, my dad's same drill. So what's, what's your master plan now, Phil? And I'm just like, well, um, I'm, I guess I'm going to obviously live here, but I'm just going to go to the methadone clinic tomorrow and, and get on medication. And he's just like, don't do methadone. He's like, get on, get on Suboxone. Suboxone is a lot easier on your body. And I had been down this Suboxone methadone road before, um,

um and he's just like just do yourself a favor and get on get on suboxone um and i said okay and i went there and so that was in at this clinic they gave you instead of suboxone they gave you subutex so the difference is suboxone is it will if you do an opioid it will block it subutex it doesn't so they're just like pumping you full of like opioids essentially with no blocker so you can still go out and get high if you wanted to you know what i mean so i'm kind of like the next couple years i'm kind of just um

Um, you know, doing suboxone every morning, um, or subutex every morning, um, getting, getting high whenever I can, whenever I have the money, just, you know, stuff like that. Um, and, um, I had met, I had met someone that I actually really genuinely liked. She had, she had two kids. She ended up moving into my parents' basement with me. Um,

And obviously I'm just a complete disaster at this point. I was able to hold down a job, but that was about it. And, you know, at some point she did what she could for me, but she's just like, this guy's a fucking loser. I got to go. And like, you know, at that point, like something kind of clicked in me and like I'd gotten into this routine where like I would be up all night, be the first one in line at the clinic five in the morning.

go home, go to bed and then get up for work around like, you know, three or four or something like that. And when you're an addict and when you're up all night, like,

your mind kind of wanders and I'm just like doing like these stupid Google searches, like how to get clean, how to be a better person, how to do this, how to do that. And, um, and I come across this stuff called Ibogaine and like, um, it didn't, this was probably 2019 and it was coming to light, like just how amazing this medicine is. But, um,

I, um, you know, I'm, I'm doing research and I'm watching YouTube videos and I'm joining Facebook groups and Reddit threads. And like, um, I joined a Facebook group. It's called, um, Ibogaine universe, all caps. Um, and, um, you know, I just make like a very generic post, like, Hey, like, um, I am interested in doing this medicine. Um, you know, and if anyone could give me some info on how to get it or what to do and stuff like that, that would be amazing. And like, um,

And people started messaging me. And that community was so receptive to me, even just being where I was at. They all started telling me the process of getting it and how it worked and what you can and can't do and stuff like that.

You know, it's interesting that someone could want to be sober so bad and get clean, but yet is unable to physically bring themselves to do it. Like you're going through the steps of searching your... Something clicked in me after Shannon left. Like something just clicked in me. And I was just like, is this really like this girl? Like I loved her and I was very attached to her two kids. And I'm just like, man, like...

I gotta figure it's time to at least make one real good attempt to get the to get myself together and

So do you start using this Ibogaine? I'll tell you how it works. So basically it's, it's a process. So Ibogaine is not legal in America. You have to go, you can do it in Canada, you can do it in Mexico, you can do it in the Bahamas, but it is a schedule one narcotic in the United States, which means no potential medical benefit. It got like outlawed with the whole war on drugs. They like killed all the psychedelic research and stuff like that. Um,

so, you know, I'm just, I'm asking questions at these two very nice girls. Um, Molly and Kelly messaged me. Um, and I'm talking to them independently and they're like, I tell them that like, look, I'm on Subutex. Um, can I take this while I'm kind of do the Ibogaine while I'm on the Subutex? And they're like, no, like you, you can be on short acting opioids, but you cannot be on long acting opioids like that. It'll, it'll just block it out. It's worthless if you do it like that. Um,

So like I, I realized like the more research I do, like this is something I really want to do. And I think that this might give me a shot at getting clean. Um, so like I start like telling my mom about it and I'm like, mom, like, look, this is, uh, you know, I'm showing her YouTube videos. I'm showing her news articles. I'm showing her like people before and after they do it, um, stuff like that. And, um, and you know, she's, she was intrigued and like she's showing her friends and they're all talking about it. And, um,

And she's like, you know, if you want to, if you, if this is something you want to do and you want to go to Mexico and do this Ibogaine, um, you know, just come up with a game plan. Cause I'm not the hard one. Like your dad's going to be the one that you got to convince. Cause he's going to be the one paying for it. Um, and yeah,

So, you know, I'm kind of working on my dad, telling him that like, this is what I want to do. And obviously as a pharmacist, no, like none. I'm not, you're not doing some like weird plant medicine down in Mexico. Like, are you crazy? And like, I'm just working on him for a couple months. And like, there was one day, well, I'm just sitting around. He's off and he's like, hey, Phil, come on, let's go somewhere. Like, all right, where do you want to go? He's like, let's take the dog Sophia down to the beach.

And let's just go for a walk on the beach. I want to talk to you. And like, my dad's a very smart man. And like, you, like, you can tell when he has to, when he has something that he doesn't say much sometimes, but when he has something to say, like he means it. And so we go for this walk on the beach and it was freezing cold. And he's like, so like, what, what is your game plan here, man? Like, what are you like? You're bugging mom about this weird medicine and like, you're bugging me. And like, can you just like, like, I just wanted to come talk to you man to man and know like, like, what are you trying to do here?

And I, you know, I tell him pretty much what I told you that like, it's very high success rate, um, in addiction and, um, mental health issues. And, uh, so, um, he's like, you know, if this is something that you really want to do, that's fine. I'll, I'll, I'll pay for it. And I'm like, but there's a kicker. I got to get off of the Subutex.

And he's like, okay, like if that's what you want to do, you have to get off of it the right way. He's like, if you just stop showing up to that clinic, um, you're, you're probably in the hospital cause you'll be so sick. And he's like, you need to tell the doctor what you want to do, how you're going to do it, what your game plan is. And these doctors don't care. They just, they just write suboxone and methanol all day and adjust medicines pretty much. Um,

And so, you know, I make an appointment and like I might as well been speaking French to this doctor because he just didn't care. He didn't know, didn't want to know. And I'm like, you know, like and I come up with a game plan outside of my dad. So like I go to the doctor and I say like, look, I'm telling the whole spiel. And I'm like, I want to go down two milligrams a day. I'm on 14 milligrams. I want to go down two milligrams a day for a week and then I'll be done with it. He's like, I cannot ethically do that to you. Like you will be very sick.

And I'm like, okay, well, you can either do it or I'm going to stop coming here. And he's like, okay, whatever, whatever, I'll do it. So Suboxone, Subutex, those type of medications, they take very, very, very long to get out of your system. So basically what I did was I got tapered off the...

tapered off down to zero milligrams. And then I just started hitting the streets. And like, this was back before the day of like pressed fentanyl. So like, I knew if I was buying a perk 30 on the streets, it was a perk 30. You know what I mean? Like I didn't have to worry about, um, the, the fentanyl being added to the, to the mix yet, at least in Delaware. Um, and I'm contacting this clinic down in Mexico, the one Molly told me to go to, um,

And, you know, they're like, what we want you to do is it's going to take 30 or 40 days to get out of your system. You know, day 30 off the Subutex, we want you to go to Walmart, buy every drug test they have and drug test yourself every single day. And the second that that Subutex is out of your system, call us and then we'll arrange on how to get you down there. So I think it was day 42, something like that, when I finally pissed clean.

And then you end up going to Mexico. So, um, obviously, you know, I had to, um, arrange transportation. I, I, um, at this point I'm just so sick from, from all the drugs. And even though I switched back to perks and stuff, it was just so like, I was just, I could barely walk. Um, one thing from, from when I'd got off the subutex, like it's just a long withdrawal. It was hard on my body. And, um,

So like the, the way I ended up getting down to Mexico, um, you know, I, we book a flight to San Diego and I'm so sick. I can barely walk. And, um, I call them and like, Hey, I'm leaving. They're like, okay, we'll have a driver there when you arrive. And, um, um, my brother and my dad took me to the Philadelphia airport. And, um, like, uh, we get there. My brother's just like, dad, I, I get, I got this. I'm going to walk him in and talk to him on the way in. And, um,

So he's walking me in and, um, he's just, uh, you know, we're walking together and, um, he's like, Hey man, like, I love you. And, um, I know this is a Hail Mary, but like you, you gotta, you gotta make this work this time. Cause dad just spent a lot of money on this stuff. And I said, I know. And I gave him a hug and he pushed me into TSA and I land in, uh, San Diego. They had a driver there who drove me, um,

To the clinic, it's called Experience Ibogaine. It's a really good clinic. If anyone's interested in doing it, I recommend it. But they drove me through Tijuana to Rosarito, Mexico. And like, it was so different than what I was used to. Just like not, I mean, Mexico is obviously different, but like when I get to this clinic, it's beautiful, beautiful.

Uh, it's just a very, I could see the Pacific ocean. Um, and like I go on the doors and there's a guy standing there, older gentleman. And he's like, Hey, I'm so-and-so I'm going to be your Ibogaine doctor. Um, and I'm like, Oh damn in America, like you usually got to wait like three or four days to see a doctor and you're right here already. And he's like, yeah, like, you know, we do it a little different in these Ibogaine clinics. He's like, are you sick? Are you withdrawing right now? And I said, yeah, I'm

I am withdrawing a little bit. He's like, how much were you using a day? And I lied. I'm like, I was doing 12 per 30s a day. That way he would give me a lot. Um, and he hands me pain medication, um, to keep me comfortable until I did the treatment. So at these clinics, like they're very good about keeping you comfortable until you can, um, until you can get the, uh, the treatment done. Um, and he's like, you know, next step, like I,

I got to give you a drug test. We're going to do a liver panel. We're doing EKG. We're going to make sure that you are healthy enough to take this Ibogaine. And I said, okay. Did all that stuff. Next day, they're like, okay, like you're clear to do the Ibogaine. So like that second day, I was just pretty much hanging out, you know, just getting used to my surroundings. And like the third day, they're like, okay, like today is going to be the day where you are going to

do the Ibogaine. Um, and they kind of were talking to me about what to expect. And, um, so they're like, you know, we're going to give you your last dose of morphine at 12. You can't eat after that. You can, all you can drink is Kool-Aid and, um, we're probably going to give you the, the flood dose around 9 PM at night. Um, and so I'm just sitting around hanging out with the nurses. They were all very, very sweet, good people. And, um,

One of the nurses is like, Hey, like, do you want to like turn on a movie or something? I'm like, yeah, that's fine. Well, it was all that, all the, um, they had Netflix, but it was in Spanish. So like, I couldn't read it. So I'm just like looking for something. I recognize why I saw Scarface put on Scarface, probably one of the most violent movies ever made right before I'm about to do the strongest psychedelic on the planet, um,

And, um, so, you know, movie finishes and they're like, okay, like, you know, it's getting close to nine. Like, give me your cell phone, go up to the bed, make yourself comfortable and we'll give you further instructions. So like the way you administer Ibogaine is you take a test dose and then a dose every a half hour for two hours. So four doses total. Um, and, um,

So I get through all those and the nurse came up to me and he's like, hey, like, are you tripping? And I'm like, no, not really. Now I'm thinking like, I'm just too man for this. I've done too many drugs for this shit. Like this, this, this can't touch me. And so he's like, okay, I'm going to go get you a fifth one. I'm going downstairs. I'll be right back. And he came down when he came back up the stairs.

he looked like a monster. Like you ever seen from Dust Hill Dome where they like transform and like, yeah, he was like scary. And I'm like, I'm like scared of him and I'm scooting away and I can't really move. And he's like, Hey, it's me, the nurse. And I'm like, Oh, and he's like, here's your fifth dose. I'm like, I don't want it. I don't want it. He's like, no, you take it. Just take it. I said, okay. So when you're doing an Ibogaine trip, the very first thing you hear is,

a loud ringing in your ears. It's like standard across the board. Everybody gets it almost like a million bees right in your ears, loud as can be. And then that's, you know, that like it's no turning back now essentially. And they like have this weedy music like this, where the medicine originated from in Africa. It's Gabon, like the Bwiti tribe. They're like pumping all this Bwiti music like on a Bluetooth speaker and

loud as can be and um i'm like yo can you all like put on like some dave matthews band or something and they're like no like this is tribal music like this is going to help help your experience just trust me and they're like okay okay um and so like basically i'm sitting there and you you the beginning of doing ibogaine is probably the most uncomfortable thing you're going to go through like

your heart is bumping out of your chest like i just watched scarface so i think someone's like coming to kidnap me or something um and you're throwing up everywhere um and it's just really uncomfortable so um as you are like laying there longer and longer um you just kind of accept that like you got to ride this out you're not going anywhere so um

I'm laying there and like so this is going to sound insane but I'm going to say that my experience doing Ibogaine is outrageous as all this is going to sound it's not anything out of the ordinary this is pretty standard for what happens to people when they do Ibogaine um so like I open my eyes and it's just like the brightest blue hieroglyphs at the wall all the way across the wall and um

I wish I could have like taken a picture of him or something had him deciphered, but it was like it was insane So I'll close my eyes. I'm like, well, I guess I'm keeping my eyes shut for the next 12 hours. That's weird. And um so like I'm just like letting the experience happen and Couple hours into it. Once you start to calm down I hear a voice and it's like very distinct and it's like why are you here? And

And I, you know, I say back in my mind, like, I want to get better. Almost like a stern father or something. And it's like, why do you want to get better? And I'm like, well, I want to do it for my family and I want to have a good life. And it's like, and it says like, pick the three most traumatic experiences of your life and you'll get better. And yeah.

So like the first one, you know, I'm thinking about it and then bam, I'm like, it was my best friend in fourth grade that had died and I have an asthma attack of all things. And I'm like back at his funeral and I'm like floating above it. And, um, I remember the weather and everybody crying and like, but like, it was like peaceful. And like, I, like I, it kind of showed me that he was at peace and he was in a better place. His name was JD. Um, and, um,

it was a good it was a good thing at this point the eye began it's it's you're past all this scary stuff and you're just you're just down for the ride and um so like the second one i had a friend at high school once again um sledding accident he had like a horrible like final destination style death where he was being pulled by a truck and he hit a tree stump and it like essentially like severed his like lower organs and he was dead before they've gone to the hospital like

that was where my life really derailed because, um, I was, I was 16. I was fully able to process it. Uh, and I think about less than six months after he died, I was just so, we were all so hurt by it. That's when I committed my felony assault. Um, and, um, you know, and then next, you know, I'm back at his funeral. And, um, after that, like,

next thing you know, like we're in a room together and he's like, Phil, like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I don't know, man. He's like, you know, you gotta get better. Like you gotta, and I'm just like, I know, but I've just been such a piece of shit my whole life and all that. And he's like, do you want to see what your life would be like, what your family's life would be like without you? And it was just kind of like,

Like it showed what my life would have, my family's life would have been like if I would have died during that overdose. And it was not good. My mom's just a wreck. My dad and brother are alcoholics. And it showed me that my family will cease to exist as much of a piece of shit as I've been my whole life without me. Like they need me to survive essentially. And the third one was my ex's stepdad. We just kind of watched him like

terminal cancer. He just kind of rotted away. Like, um, and like a lot of times I would go over there and just like sit with him and just hang out. And, um, uh, we wouldn't even talk. Like, I don't know what you're going to say to someone who's like dying of cancer. Like, like ask him how the weather is or like if the giants are going to beat the Ravens, like there's not really much to say. So we would just sit together and smoke and, and, and hang out. Um, and, um,

you know, that was just able to like help me release so much trauma. It just showed that like all my trauma was from death and, um, that, you know, it's okay. Like, like that, that's not that bad. And it's just something new and like, like chasing, like, I'm fine. Like, you know, you can move on without me. You know what I mean? And I just said, okay. Um,

And they had told me like the second that you feel like you can get out of this bed when you see the sun coming up, you can. So like sun's coming up, I get out of bed and like I'm looking at the Pacific Ocean and like it was just such like an amazing experience. Like,

And I later found out that like this medicine is one of the most neuro regenerative substances on the planet. So it repairs brain injury. It can repair like brain injuries, people with like Parkinson's and MS, they're finding a lot of success with it. Like tier one operators, like, like Navy SEALs, Delta Force guys, they're sending them down to Mexico by the busload now to help them get this medicine. And they're coming back with like new leases on their lives essentially and

Um, and it, it really, um, I just happened to walk, walk into that. I didn't even know it was a thing. And like, I remember like being able to think and like, my brain was just like firing on all cylinders all of a sudden. Um, and like, I'm calling my mom, I'm calling my sister and I'm just like telling them how sorry I am. And, um, you know, I, I just knew. Oh, so another thing about this Ibogaine, um,

So it is very strong anti-addictive properties. So after you take this stuff, you wake up, you have no withdrawal from the opioids, you have no cravings.

And you're essentially just like, you know, free again from it. And you don't have to do other doses of that. Just one. It's almost hard to believe, Ian, but like Google or YouTube will be your friend on this if you're interested in doing it. And I might not be explaining it the best, but like the information is about Ibogaine. It's very easy to find. Well, I guess here's a question then. Have you used drugs since doing that? No. No.

No cravings. No. So how long have you been clean for? Well over five years now. All because of that? All because of that one experience. And like mine wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Like there are a lot of people going down there and getting clean from this Ibogaine

But do you think it's a mental thing? Because you were ready to change, right? I would say that you have to want to do it. If somebody drags you down there and makes you do it, you're probably going to have a good chance of relapsing. But I would say you need to be ready. And you need to be ready to change your life after the Ibogaine, which is what I did differently.

After that. But you're someone in recovery now that does use weed, right? Yeah. So it doesn't technically get rid of all of your drug cravings, right? So like I do have some pain issues from my overdose. And I just, I might like smoke a little bit at night just to relax and calm down.

Um, and, but I'm not like a heavy user or anything, but I've never, I'll say I've never used a hard drug since that day. No, I'm not judging. I was just curious. Yeah. Well, I know there's a debate that we're like, you know, if you're in clean and recovery, then you can't use any type of drug, but I'm kind of in the belief where like, okay, if you

If your addiction was gambling, per se, then okay, then you can smoke weed or do something else and vice versa. I would say that it probably is the guideline, but everybody's different. I know that I'm never going to do a hard sell. Unless I have a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm never going to take another opioid again. And the progression I've made in my life since...

doing that Ibogaine, um, it's pretty astounding. Yeah. What's your life like now? So basically I leave out of that clinic. Um, I go to my aftercare in Austin, Texas and, um, you know, it was, they were good people there. They, it was COVID wiped them out. So like they're not in business anymore, but, um, it's owned by a psychotherapist and like their main thing was, um,

you know, you cannot go back to that same mess you left or you're going to, you're going to relapse. Um, and I said, okay. Um, and like, at first I'm kind of in denial. I'm like, I can go back to my parents' basement. And they're like, no, Phil, like you can't do that. Um, so eventually they, they work on me enough and I'm like, okay, I'll go, I'll go back into sober living at an Oxford house. And, um, I, the, the,

So the outreach guy, he was, he was the state chair by the time I had done the Ibogaine, but we'd had a big falling out. His name's Tony. And I'm like, man, now I got to text Tony, even though, you know, he probably hates me. And like, I unlock him on Facebook. I write him a text and he must've been looking at his phone. Cause like he texts me back instantly. He's like, Hey man, you know, I think about you sometimes hope you're doing well. And I'm like, yeah, like I'm doing well, but I need a house.

He's like, okay, like I'll get you into a house. Just don't worry about it. Like, what are you doing? Where are you at? And when are you leaving? And I told him like, I'm in Austin, Texas. I'll be here for, you know, this amount of days. And he said, okay, call me a week before we'll get you an interview set up and you can come, we'll get you back into a house. So, you know, I do my time in Austin and I go back and this time, like I really feel

focused on doing stuff right like instead of looking for the bad guys in the Oxford house I was like looking for the the good people the people that like wanted to change their lives if that makes sense and um yeah so I get back and I show up um and I knock on the door you know I catch my flight get my car come down to the Oxford house guy that opens the door is outside of Drew probably one of my best friends to this day first guy I meet there

Um, and you know, he's just like, Hey, like, uh, you know, I work third shift. Like, have you been in, in one of these houses? And I'm like, yeah, I'm a frequent flyer in these houses. Like I'm good. And, um, he's like, okay, like I'm just going to go over it a little bit and then I'm going to go to bed. I've been up all night. So, um, and this is right when COVID is popping off right at the beginning of it in 2020. Um, there's no jobs. Um, unemployment had not started, uh,

Giving out the money yet. They were just unprepared. Um, so the house like you have to have a job in one of these houses Um, or you got a volunteer, but I wanted to get a job. Um, so Um, i'm like i'm just going to do 10 indeed applications a day That's it and then i'm going to be free the rest of my day until I find a job and I was helping tony a little bit with like Opening other houses and stuff like that moving furniture and stuff for him. But um, so

10 applications a day was doing them every day. Did it, did that for about a week. And, um, I was, I'll never forget. I was leaving a therapy appointment. Um, and I get a call and it's from a California number and I'm like, uh, I don't know. There's a lot of weird stuff going on with COVID. Let me just answer it just in case. Um, and it's a guy on the other end and he's like, hi, um, how would you like a job making for a 50 to $70,000 a year? And I'm just like, what do I got to do for that? Like, is it legal? Um,

And he's like, yeah, man, it's, um, it's Red Bull distribution company in front of the energy drink. Right. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, it's Red Bull. Um, and I'm like, just like, okay, yeah, I want to do it. Sign me up. Like, let's get to the next step. And he's like, okay, like what I'm going to do is send your application to a local district manager in your local building where you live. And, um, his secretary will set you up for an interview. And I, um,

I'm checking my phone, you know, every 10 minutes for like a couple of days, I finally get an email from her and, um, she's like, uh, you know, tell me a time when you can do an interview. I'm like, yeah, full availability. Just let's just get it done. And, um, she's like, okay, it has to be on zoom because of COVID you can't come to the building right now. So I, um, we do, we do the interview and the guy, uh, is a little Moldovian guy, like the hardest worker I've ever seen. He's all old, old Soviet Russia guy. Like, um,

And he's like, hey, like, you know, I've had 60 applicants for this job. I just want to let you know that. And I'm so underqualified. I got four months clean. Like, I just moved into this house. And so, like...

For some reason, somehow he picked me. I don't know. Out of all these people, I said something to him that struck a chord and I got the job. And I started that job. It was for 2020. I'll never forget the date. So I show up there day one. COVID's got everything all fucked up. Like you can't, we can't ride in trucks together. I can't go into the building. I can't do this.

So the guy who's training me, I'm literally just following him around, following around his Red Bull truck all day, doing the stops with him, getting back in my car, going to the next one next. And it was just a horrible way to learn how to be an account manager at Red Bull. And it wasn't anyone's fault. It was just the circumstances. Um, and he, uh, they, um, I was bad at that job for a long time. It took me a long, a long time to get my body back. And I'm,

These guys are pretty highly paid, but it's a grueling 12 hour a day, 12 to 14 hour a day job managing all these accounts. And they needed a body so bad. So they just, I followed that guy for two weeks and they sent me out on the road. And I tell like the district manager, like, I don't know what I'm doing, dude. And he's like, I know it's fine. Just do your best. We like, we need someone to go out there and sell Red Bull. Like,

So they, as soon as I got my driving privileges and stated, I was in that truck and I was driving around, um, selling Red Bull. And, um, they gave me 104 accounts to manage. Um, and since they have, they're all different frequencies, like Wawa's, you know, three times a week, Walmart's twice a week, uh, you know, down to the ones that are, that are once a month. But, um, and like, I don't know why I didn't quit or how I didn't quit, but like, um, I

I don't know. I wrote it out and like when I, I saw my first paycheck. So all of my back pay from unemployment came and I, um, Red Bull was given hazard pay. Like I think it was like 500 bucks a week or something. So like I wake up one morning and my bank accounts got like $10,000 in it. And I'm like, the fuck is this? And I'm like, Oh, this one is from unemployment and this is from Red Bull. Um, and, um,

I'm like, okay, let's try this. And six months, I said, I'm going to give myself six months. And your six months go by, I'm still horrible at this job. Don't know what I'm doing. And like, I text the district manager, it was a Sunday night. I had to be there 5 a.m. on Monday. He's like, hey, I'm like, hey, I quit. I can't do this job anymore. I'm going to go back to the donut, managing the donut shop.

And, um, he just texts me back. Very simple text. You cannot quit. I will see you tomorrow at five. And I'm like, man, I can't even quit. Like, that's crazy. So like I go there and he said, he said, we'll talk tomorrow also. So I go there and he's, um, he says like some stuff to me. I'll never forget. A lot of like the Red Bull staff didn't like this guy. I thought he was a very good boss. Very fair. But, um,

And he sits me down and he's like, Hey man, like I know this job sucks. I know this job is hard. I know you're working 14 hours a day. And he said like, this job will be the hardest thing you ever do. He said, if you can manage this job and at least do it mediocre in managing these accounts, you will do well in everything else in your life. Your life will come together. And that kind of was when I'm like, okay, all right. I'm going to ride this out no matter how long it takes. And like,

I ended up staying there for four and a half years and I became like a pretty, I wouldn't like the best account manager, but I became a pretty decent account manager, you know, in those four and a half years. And like my body from all the overdose, it was just too broken to like keep lifting sodas and work in those hours. And so I eventually did move on to something better and,

um, from Red Bull, but Red Bull was very, very good to me. And I, they, they kind of saved my life in a way. Cause I was at that turning point. You know what I mean? So. What do you think is the learning lesson you want people to take away from your story today? Um, you know, just, just you, you can't give up like no matter how, what you've been through, you know, if, if I can escape an overdose where I had less than a 5% chance to live, um, you just, you gotta keep going. And, um,

you just don't give up on yourself. And as far as this Ibogaine, I can't say enough good things about it. I 100% credit it for saving my life. And I mean, I have a little daughter now and a house and a car and like I own a business, a thriving business actually. And like this, like,

I think this medicine will probably end up being the future of addiction, I hope. And there's a lot of people in on this movement now. It's gaining some steam and a lot more people are starting to find out about it. Like when I did it, you had to have money to get that shit. Like, let's face it. I think my dad paid $5,500 for the treatment and then he paid $12,500 for the aftercare. So $18,000, my dad shelled out to get me treatment.

to do this stuff. And I'm good man right there. My, my dad's a real one. My dad's a real dude. So, uh, but, um, yeah. Um, and just if anyone's interested in doing it, like, um, you just, you can't take no for an answer. Uh, you have to figure it out. This medicine is not going to come to you. If, if, um, you have the PTSD addiction, mental health issues, like,

You have to make arrangements in your life to go find this medicine. And there's people that practice it in America. Even though it's illegal, they kind of operate under like a religious gray area. But, you know, like it is available and it can save lives.

Bill, I appreciate you coming on the show today, man. Yeah, man. It was a pleasure talking to you and hearing about this. Thank you. Hopefully it inspires some others. Yeah, I hope so, man. And if anyone ever has any questions about Ibogaine, they can always reach out to me. Yeah, I'll have your Instagram or whatever in the bio. Yeah, that's fine. And I'm not an expert in the field, but I can direct them. Awesome. Thank you, Phil. Yeah, man.