Inside the Violent Gang Life That Led Me to Years in Prison | Justin Kline
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The NBA playoffs are here, and I'm getting my bets in on FanDuel. Talk to me, Chuck GPT. What do you know? All sorts of interesting stuff. Even Charles Barkley's greatest fear. Hey, nobody needs to know that. New customers bet $5 to get 200 in bonus bets if you win. FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.

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Thanks for having me. Yes, I wasn't going to let anything stop me from coming. You asked if I wanted to reschedule. No, fuck that. Excuse my language. We're going, bro. Hey, I had to offer it, though. I don't want anyone to get hurt driving the snow. I would have walked here from Philly. But it didn't turn out to be that bad, the snow. Did you guys get a lot out there? Nah, slippery. It was like sleet raining when we left. So we're getting soaked. I'm like, man, I want to mess up my hat or this or that. I'm like.

Got to be on camera, you know. Yeah, well, thank you for coming. Shout out to your family that's watching this episode, you know, that made the trip with you to be here. And you're fresh out, man. You got out in November. November, yeah. You got a good PL letting you travel. Mine was not letting me travel that quick. Yeah, he works with people with mental health disorders, which I struggle with. And so he's like very accommodating. I've been doing what's right. I've been, you know, reporting everything. So, you know, yeah.

He was cool. I mean, I told him, like, this is very important to me because I have a positive message at the end of all the adversity to get out there, and I need to get it out there, and this is what's going to help me do it. Yeah, I have a lot of guys that come from Pennsylvania. Yeah, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New York, the tri-state area. Pennsylvania guys always have the best stories in Massachusetts. What, jail stories or what? Just everything. I don't know. I guess because it's very drug, very addiction-based.

fueled in Pennsylvania too, I think out of all those. Bad, high murder rate, chilly, very high. It's definitely bad. I've had some prison guards I was talking to your stepdad or... My mom's boyfriend, but yeah. Yeah, about some of the guards that used to work there at...

Uniford or whatever the name of the place is. Graterford. Graterford. Yeah, so I had some guards there. You were there? I was in jail. So you might know him, Smitty. Was he working a visiting room intake? I don't know. He worked just in the jail in general. That wasn't my home jail, but you come through there, you go there on rent, like when you're going for court and all that. So I've been there. I've had fun there. I think he worked in the kitchen too at one point, his last gig there. I might not know him. He retired...

I think in 2020. Okay. Or 2019. Okay. But he was there for like 15 years, I think. He's the best jail PA. Really? He's the best jail PA. Now, before we get started more in depth into this, I want you to plug your podcast, everything you got going on now to promote that. Just a felon, man. I'm taking what I've learned from prison, the adversity that I overcame and the mindset that I was able to adapt to.

I'm struggling through years of prison and I'm trying to bring them teachings to the masses, specifically the children, because I was a traumatized kid. And I see where that led to my criminal thinking, my criminal mentality and the need to be accepted. And violence was my way of being accepted. So I think I can save children like years of hardship that are going through traumatic situations, bullying and this and that from having to go through what I went through. You know what I mean? So that's my passion. I'm going to give the gray. I'm going to give the stories, but I want a positive outcome.

take from it all because I was that traumatized kid and people should care about this issue because

Children's mental health is not taken serious and these kids are going through some shit, bro They're they're they're hurting themselves. They're killed because they have no confidence. They're bullied. That's my message and that's what i'm coming with I love that man And we'll have the links to everything in the description of this episode for people to check like and subscribe Definitely. Oh, you know what? I give you credit man It takes a lot to for people to get something going so, you know recently home from prison

I've planned it with my my friend Vaughn a childhood friend very supportive He helped me do he's like man You gotta mess it even when I didn't believe in myself And this is the first time I came out with this this mentality. It's just like the greatest high ever It's like I can accomplish anything. I don't have nothing right now living with my mother with no car Nothing. I have 70 dollars in my cash yet. Most of it. I borrowed you know what I mean? But i'm going to make it because I don't have a choice. I don't have a choice anymore I'm behind on life. I have no choice but to get it. I'm gonna get it

And that's it. And when you have that feeling that you can take on the world and you're able to peel apart the layers of your mentality and apply it to everyday life, it's like nothing can stop you. Nothing.

Yeah. And I mean, we've all been there, you know, so don't ever feel discouraged because you know, where you're sitting now, what I have now, I was where you were, you know, just a few years ago when I got out and I had to work for four years, you're, you're ahead of me in a sense, because I, I was negative with restitution and I worked at a nine to five and I had no vision. You at least have a vision for a business and what you want to do and a plan to get there. I didn't really have any of that. Um, and you know, when I started this, I was driving Uber,

I had an OnlyFans. I was hustling, you know. I was delivered DoorDash. You got a business mindset. You ran a nightclub. You just applied it differently. People can learn from this. You got people in the streets of Philly that are running million-dollar blocks like...

professional CEOs of billion dollar companies. They apply that to something positive. They're going to be great. Look what you accomplished with your business mindset when you applied it to something. It's, it's, it's, it's same game, different product. You know what I mean? And that's it. Hard work goes a long way, man. Yeah. So that's what I'm preaching, man. And I'm trying, I'm telling people now because everybody sees the success stories, right? But they, they rarely see the journey. I'm that journey. Watch me.

Where did you grow up? West Country, Hawkins, suburbs of Philadelphia, small town, you know. So, yeah. Who did you grow up with? Seven kids, both my parents, seven of us, kind of a small household. We had enough, but...

You know, not too many extras. We were held down and that caused a lot of issues in school because the school we went to, people had a little bit more money. So you get picked on, you're looked at as like, you know, the peons and, you know, and that started a whole thing and, you know, but yeah. So there were seven kids or just five plus your parents? Seven kids and then my parents, yeah, one house, one bathroom.

Five of us slept in one room. My two sisters slept in a room upstairs near my parents. And yeah. All the same mom and dad? All the same mom and dad, yeah. And what did your parents do for work? My dad did construction. My mom had a few jobs here and there and was a...

hell of a freaking mother, man. She did whatever was necessary, working, also taking care of house. And my mother's like an amazing woman. That's how a woman should be. But it's like impossible to be like that anymore. It's like, I don't know how you do that. I admire the women because of them struggling. I see why I have female friends that are holding down households with even just a couple of kids and just blows my mind.

how much work they do just to come in the house before you can sit down. I'm thinking you could just come in and sit down. I come in over and say, you're doing this and that, feeding the kids and dog. That's crazy. My mom did that with seven kids.

You know what I mean? I can't say my father was always that supportive because he bipolar back and forth and that sets you up to have your own issues and you know, mom's holding it down though. And you know, that was inspiration to me. I think it shaped a lot of the ways, a lot of my characteristics to this day. What was the age group with your siblings? My brother's a year older than me. It's Kenny. Then there's me. Kenny's like a year older than me. Shane's a couple years younger. Everybody's kind of close. We're at like,

30 to 38 right now. So like eight year different differential. That's not bad that you guys are all kind of close in age. Yeah. Yeah. We're all close now pretty much. And a few family disputes and all that. But, you know, we're all like we're close, man. What pass did they end up taking? Did they end up in prison too? Man, so they started off a couple of them doing wrong. But I think when I went for my first state bid, when I was

18 like they they all got their shit straight so if that alone was the only positive outcome of me going to prison that's okay because because i'm proud of all my brothers and sisters like i i aspire to be like them in some sort of way you know i'm trying to achieve the world but however what they're doing is so admirable like you came from where i came from we came from the same place we we've experienced some of the same things a little different childhoods with with maybe uh

in society, in school, you know, school settings. But they took a different path, man. I'm proud of them. Like, I'm proud. I look and I'm like, you got a house, you got a car, you got a family. That's the American dream. That's the American dream. When you're in prison, you know, that's what you dream about. It's just being able to have the basics, a family, a house, you know, stuff like that. Like, that's like, to me, it's like,

And sometimes it seems so far away, but it's, you know, obviously it's in reach. They did it. I can do that. I can do more. I can do, you know. Did you ever wonder why you, like when you're sitting in prison, they're all, you know, having success and everything. Do you ever realize or think about why your path went the way it did? Yeah. Like I've overthought and analyzed and assessed and addressed my thinking, but I

Going up to prison up until like this last time, even most of this bit, it was always like it was somebody else's fault. When you think like, why me? You're blaming your adversity on something you have no control over. When you realize that it's really internal, that you have some type of contribution to whatever the fuck you're doing, you know, that's when you can start making changes that are going to benefit you. And that's where I just started getting to.

So, you know, yes, I've had that for like my whole bit. Like, why me? I don't deserve this. I was going to college. I was working full time. Why do I got to go back to jail? You broke somebody's face. I broke somebody's face, man. You can't, you can't, you can't expect to not go to jail. I don't care what you're doing. You broke somebody's, you know, and this is a violate and it got me sent back, but I'm still blaming it on other people. I hit that man. I did that, you know, the worst stuff that I did, you know, to go to prison and I

So I just started recently taking accountability, man. And that's helped me a lot. How would people describe you as a kid or in middle school, high school? Loyal. I had a lot of heart. I didn't fit in. I was probably a little weird.

I think we have all been a little weird. Yeah. So I was just trying to fit in, man. And I feel like my first instance, the first time I felt accepted was when I actually hurt somebody in the school. And that set the precedence that violence was okay in my mind. Because that's your way to acceptability. Then you hit the streets and you take that with you. And, you know, that's kind of where that led. And I realized that. But it's...

It was because of how I was looked at or how I thought I was looked. I was chasing my identity like I was trying to find it anywhere I could when I was younger. And it took violence for me to find that incorrect mentality or personality at the time.

Do you feel like you had a lot of anger in you as a kid? Yeah. Well, I try not to curse. Yeah, man. Yeah. I was out because I was, like I said, I was booed. I was picked on and I couldn't do anything. I was soft, man. You know, I was soft. And for years, I thought about seeing these kids now. Like, yeah, look at me. Because I've run into them. I had a, not to get too gargantuan, I'm not glorifying my past, but I caught a case for a stabbing, right? Bad one. I seen somebody in county I used to be in school with. This dude was like this to me in school. But then we,

you know, now we're growing up, we're in county, he read the newspaper articles about my case and he's like this to me, I'm like this, he's like, hey, he's like,

what we call, I don't want to say the word dick riding, but it's like you're, you're, you're dick riding. Like you're like, like you're being Joe. It's a Philly slang. I don't know if people understand you're like you're being overly, you know what I mean? Cause you know that now, you know, that I could, I'm somebody or I got something in me or, you know, somebody, but, and it's just like, I had a little slight satisfaction because this is somebody, Oh, you should have hung out with us when we were kids. That's what he said. We should have hung out. No, I didn't get along with you guys. Cause I was, I was weird. But now you see that I'm, you know, who I am now. And

And now they want to be your friend. Now they want to be cool because they fear you. What's something you wish you directed your anger towards back then, looking back on it now? Some type of passion, like fitness. I love fitness now. That's what I study upstate. Hours, hours, referencing, cross-referencing. I wish it was that, but I'm not made at the path I took because it made me who I am. The character that developed far exceeds anything that would have developed if I had never went to prison. You know what I mean? But

If I had somebody that knows what I know now to instill some type of passion and play off of that pain, turn your pain into passion. I have a YouTube video off of that term pain into passion. Then it would have set me on a whole different course. And that's what I'm trying to bring to the youth. Turn that pain into some type of passion. Give them something to be passionate about. Fitness is a major one. And it leads to social acceptability as well, which is important as a child.

You know what I mean? Did you play sports or have any, you know, hobbies or anything in high school? Yeah. Well, not for school, but for like, what is that called? Like just... After school. Yeah, yeah. Football, baseball. I did do wrestling one year for school.

I tried out for baseball, but then when I made it, I, you know, I started smoking weed. And so I was lazy. I'm like, man, I'm not doing that. I made the team. I'm like, yeah, I don't, I don't want to, I was just wanting to be in the streets. I'm carrying guns and you know, like I'm doing all this crazy stuff that, you know, that's what I wanted to do at that time. Just wanted to live in the streets because that was cool to me. That's what I was good at hurting people. I was good at hurting people. So you do what you're good at. Unfortunately. What was your first entryway into the street life? How old were you? What happened?

Fuck if I know. Man, first incident, I've done so much stuff, man. I honestly do not know. Maybe the smoking weed, you know, carrying my first gun, I think was 15, maybe 14, which is kind of a late age around my area. You know what I mean? Not my direct area, but like Philly. You're from the suburbs, but you're putting yourself in the hood and you have friends from there just because...

of whatever glorification exists in your mind for that setting. And then obviously if you're in there, you know, you've got the things that come along with the shootings and the guns and the violence and, and worse, you know? So. Why do you think you needed a gun at that age? Uh, I don't know if I needed it. I just, can I say this? I was just ready to,

Man, I don't want to use these words. When I was younger, I just, I just, I was ready to kill man on demand because I was hurt so bad. I was willing to take it to any extent necessary or even when it wasn't necessary just to prove a point.

just to prove a point, there was an incident that I can't speak on too much. I had a sawed off shotgun, right? And I used to, so I used to have a hoodie, right? And I have a duffel bag and I have it unzipped and I had the sawed off in that bag. And then we had back in Philly area, the Woolrichs, the Woolrichs were with the, with the fur hat, the fur around the hood. And then I put that over and I'd always carry my shotgun, man. And there's so many close calls I had with this before I caught my first bit. I'm so lucky. Some

could have landed you there forever you know what i mean that just i happened to get locked up and then another situation almost robbed some undercovers that were on the block because they didn't look right because they're white and the blocks nobody's white on the block and they end up raiding a house down the street i was wrong i came oh my god i'm so glad i didn't man but you almost forgot the gun on yes i come down at a block right so we had an incident with somebody i had words with somebody around the block they go and tell people uh um

I'm coming to the block with guns. People knew me to be crazy back then, but this wasn't even a true fact. So when I heard that, like, yo, they're waiting for you down here. Don't come down. I'm like, what? Sold off. Go down. Go down to the block. The block's cleared off by then. And I seen these two white guys sitting on the, I mean, I'm white, but

There's no white people in this specific couple blocks. And I just seen him sitting there and I'm looking like, fuck it, I'm gonna rob him. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, no. Something told me no. And I walked away half hour later. I found out they raided the house down the street. So I was very fortunate. I was very fortunate. Actually, when I was in the house,

When I went to state hospital, I think for the first time I had that sawed off in my room and my dad happened to go in and grab it. Fortunately, because when I got out of the state hospital, my PO raided the room with some, so that would have been extra time I did on my first bid, which was insane.

you know, long enough five years, but long enough still. Did your parents know that, you know, a change in behavior? Did your family, did your siblings, did they witness a change of behavior in you young and try to, you know, nip it in the butt or get you some help? I think so. I mean, my mom used to pat search me on the way out of the house. So I'd have to give my gun to my one brother that I trust her and my one sister. I won't name who you guys know who you are. Thank you for holding me down, but you encourage negative behavior.

You should feel like shit. No, don't. You're my riders. I love you guys. But so they would have to, they would throw it. So I'll go, my mom passers me. All right. Throw, throw, throw.

Throw the gun out real quick. Put it in. Broad daylight suburbs, man. It's not the hood. Like, we're in the suburbs, man. I go carry my gun and think I'm cool and then go do whatever I was doing. Well, I can't speak on it. Yeah. Well, I can say no dates, but I had to go back one time. Yo, throw it in the river. Throw it in the river. You know, but yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's funny now because it's like I can't believe, like, you know, but that's the mindset I was in, man. Yeah, you can't believe you're that type of person looking back on it. I mean...

It made me who I am today. So like, you know, you have regrets, of course, people that I can't say I've hurt anybody innocent one time by accident, but that was from like PTSD. And that was my last case. But, um, I, nobody was innocent, man. I wasn't out there victimizing people. These were people that were victimizing people. I was victimizing victimizers. So I have trouble regretting that. That doesn't justify my actions. However,

They're not innocent, man. You know, they got what they got for doing what they're doing, you know, and they're hurting people too or were hurting people. That's, you know. Were you going to school regularly? Were you taking that seriously? What was high school like? Yeah, I mean, I did good. So we grew up in Catholic school up until like fifth grade and we went to public and that's, like I said, we didn't fit in. We didn't have the nice clothes. Like our jeans were...

My mom would cut like jeans and she would cut them into shorts because we couldn't always afford seven kids is a lot of people to feed, you know, to put new clothes, you know. And so that started a lot of shit coming from there. But as far as like, so that made it hard and then I'm not getting fitting in. So trying to pay attention in class and fall, they just go too quick and I'll get frustrated like, fuck it.

But then when I started smoking weed, originally, I just go to class and go to sleep, started getting Fs, went to alternative programs, stepped my grades up, but it kept you at a certain level of education. I wasn't able to advance like I would have otherwise. And I'm alternative schools only. Then I got kicked out and then went to this school and got kicked out and, you know, and then went to Glenn Mills Juvenile, but

that alternative schools don't teach you that advanced because most of the students are behind. Prices keep going up these days. It feels like being on an elevator that only goes up. But not at Metro. We're pushing the down button. Going down.

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I'm not really sure. I didn't really have culinary arts was was part of one. And then that was a big one for a while. Then when I went to jail, turned into personal training fitness, when I got good at it, when I got knowledgeable, you know, and I was like, damn, this is how I can help people and build a career. It's great. You know, so that's that's what my passion developed into. And that's what my aspirations are.

I say word because I have a different direction I'm kind of trying to take. I will use that, you know, I'll definitely implement it, but there's, I think there's a better way I can make a reach and help people. So. Tell us about your first case. First time you ever got arrested. All right. So first case, man, trying to think without incriminating anybody because what they thought they got, this was not the actual case. The case they gave me was attempted burglary, right? Right.

Um, somebody had told him my cousin and they were on, uh, the surveillance camera. You can tell her to tattoos. I went to go take care of this person. Long story short, I was on Xanny's. So I, I'm not really functional. I remember one of my siblings said, yo, don't go do a mission when you're, when you're, when you're on Xanny's man, uh, right apartment, uh,

Wrong apartment. I don't remember if I tried getting in or not. They thought it was attempted burglary. It was going to be worse. You know what I mean? I got locked up. They gave me like this thing where you can ARD, you get out, you'll get away from your record. Just don't catch another case. Uh, not even a month later, I catch an assault with my brother, my cousin, uh,

Big dude's like seven foot. I think my brother knocked him out with the first hit, but we, we hurt this dude bad. Uh, he, he was, he was medevaced out life support, I believe in all that. And then because I had that case on top of the other one, I went upstate for that. So it was kind of combined two to four years. I called a case in jail later on and I'm doing five years max and everything out. But, uh, my brother and my cousin got away with like probation, but because I had that on top of that, uh,

they, they sent me upstate for it. And that was the juvenile place. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot about that. Okay. So that wasn't my first case. Juvenile was, uh, oh, we broke into a bar at night, uh, me and someone else, blah, blah, blah. Uh,

Yeah, I can't speak on because I don't think they, but me and somebody else, I took my mask off. I was on camera. I bit my part and, you know, and then I did Glenn Mills 10 months, I think. Bad place, man. Why break into a bar? What was the logic behind that? So the person I was with, they're just like,

Bro, this this bar. I checked it. The door is open, bro. We could just go get some free alcohol I'm a kid. I'm like, all right, why not? Can't go buy it. Let's go Go take it man Donors are cool too because I don't think they made me pay for the restitution for like broken window whatever and and uh, yeah free free alcohol Why not like you're a kid, you know what I mean?

So did those 10 months in that juvenile detention center kind of make you worse than what you were change you affect your thinking in a negative way? Yeah, because they were oppressing us. They were beating the fuck out of us, man. I have to use that word because they were beating the shit out of people. I got jumped by staff. Well, beat up by staff three days in for I was being a wise ass, but like they whooped my ass like a grown man, stopped me out and all.

There was this dude there, right? That, that went truant. That means he left, right? So, so rumors are circulating. Oh no, that wasn't the case. This other dude, he told his caseworker from outside Glenn Mills that, um,

that, you know, what's going on. They're beating us, right? So we heard stories about what they did to this dude as retaliation for that. They're like, yo, his head's out to here and there. And you're like, you know, of course they're exaggerating because nobody's face can be out to here or here. When I seen this kid, he looked like the elephant, man. His face was out to here. Them stories about that place are real, man. And I have a lot of anger and resentment against them people because they oppressed us, their kids. So of course it made me, it made me hate authority figures more. It made me more violent and made me just want to like, like, like,

Screw everybody. Like I was on, it kind of sent me on a rampage. You know what I mean? And then you have the little bit of, oh, I was locked up now. So you're a little bit cool. You know what I mean? So you're struggling with that on top of it, along with all the mental health symptoms and issues that they just exasperated or induced into your mind. You know what I mean? So yeah, man, it was the worst thing that could have probably happened to me. Why didn't you get like probation or some type of rehabilitation program for that first charge? I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, 10 months seems a little bit extreme for a teenager that just broke into a place. Yeah, I never thought it. Nobody was there. It was at night. So I don't think that's not considered violent. It might have been considered. They have certain rules with burglaries, whether it's considered violent or not. I don't know if that might have been because I think that gave me my extra strike on the refelt later on in my criminal life.

career but um i don't know i never thought of that i don't know when you get out of juvenile detention do they put you right back in high school or are you expelled from it so i graduated from there i actually got my this so this is like you're 17 uh 18 18 and that was your very first charge yeah i had an assault before that but i think i dropped or something like a high school fight yeah like punching somebody in the school something like that i don't remember it but uh

Yeah, that was my actual first. I don't think that one's on my record. This one was, you know, was. So you graduated from there right from the juvenile detention? Yeah, and then left like a couple weeks after, like I graduated right before. Besides them whooping kids' asses and all that crazy shit, it was a good place, food, learning, you know, education, sports and all. So it looks like picturesque, but it's like, it's dark. Were you hanging around like a bad group of people?

Yeah. I mean, my friends are with me today. They were a little bit in the streets, not as much as I was, but they were more positive, but they were still on the streets. We still handle stuff we had to handle. We're still doing certain stuff. There's certain...

I don't know if it was considered a riot. We had little stuff on the street, big, you know, but separate from them, like my core group of friends, which like I said, are still here. And I love all of them for being there. The ones that are, yeah, I had my separate group because that's what you're doing stuff. You see people that are into what you're into or into what you're trying to get into. And you, you know, they're doing all the

cool stuff, the shootings and this and that and drop all this crazy stuff. And you just want to be there like, yeah, I can do this. Like, cause this is how you can contribute yourself when you're a child or I was a child, I wasn't able to contribute myself. So I see where all this comes into play. You know what I mean? And like I said, that's why I constantly think about, cause you got to take your thinking back to that childhood to know why you think today, like you do addressing the issues at the core, the root of the problem.

So you get out. What's your mindset? Are you trying to find a job? Yeah, that first time from juvenile detention. No.

nah, I was in the streets. Yeah. I thought you'd met first time. I was like, yeah, nah, nah. I was, I was, I didn't care. I was right back to it, man. My, my, my oldest brother had just got in the streets while I was there. He wasn't before then he got his self right on my first state bid. But my first June, the only juvenile bid I did my first actual bid. That's when like I come home and now he's doing all this. He's selling drugs. He's, he's in the streets. He's carrying, you know, carrying guns now. Like, like I'm like, all right, let's, let's, let's go do it, man. And you know, that led to whatever, uh,

And you're living at home at that point? Yeah. I've never lived on my own yet. I've always been in jail. It's embarrassing, but I have to live my reality, man. I have yet to live on my own except when I had a single cell upstate Z code, you know, and that's when I only lived. I, I, I,

I haven't done it by myself. I don't know how yet. I'm learning. How much time passed between you getting out from juvenile detention for you catching your first, you know, adult charge? Two weeks. Two weeks. That's all it was? Two weeks, man. Instantly. Ready to, I mean, I could say it because it didn't happen. I was charged. I was ready to take somebody's life over nothing. Over nothing.

They had nothing to do with me telling on somebody that has told on other people. You know what I mean? Like, and I didn't realize at the time, but it's family. I was, everybody says my loyalty, like, cause, cause, cause it was misplaced. And it was just like, if it was family, I'm riding for him. I didn't care. I was willing to go to any, I don't even know if he knows that that was my intention to go there. And when he told me, I went there, went two days, I staked it out.

got chased off by some ladies one time. They probably knew what I was doing. The second time somebody called the cops and, and bam, I was arrested. And they just thought I was just trying to break in and what I'm going to say. No, I'm here to take some. No, I can't. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm not going to say that. No, whatever. Like, no, I didn't do it. And did they catch you with a gun? No, I just had a knife on me. That's my, my, uh, your go-to. Yeah, it was, but there wasn't as many cameras back then. Now there's always cameras, but fortunately I'm not in the street life anymore. What year was this? 2005.

Because I got down in 2005, went upstate in 2006, but I was in and out of county. And this guy had nothing to do with you. It was just someone else that— He was on camera. He was a CI, so his video footage was his tattoos, and that's how— But he wasn't jamming you up or anything. No, he was jamming my cousin up, and I went to take care of it myself, unprompted. That's kind of how it always was, man. So your cousin was in the streets too? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. To a degree. Yeah. Not like I was, he's a little more, you know, on the bullshit, uh, as far as like getting high and all that. And I was more on the shit on the other end, you know? So,

selling certain drugs but mostly just violence i was more violent i was never really a drug dealer just done it periodically it was violence was my thing do you feel like you had something to prove to someone yeah the world yeah yeah and i carried that thing in the day just like i said a more positive mirror yeah because i never fit in growing up and i didn't realize that maybe maybe i did then but it was just like i always had to prove myself like no i'm not that soft

A kid with no, you know, from childhood, I'm not him no more. I'm not that kid that you're going to bully. I'm not that kid you're going to push around. And how do you do that? You take control, you know. You become the aggressor. And that's where I was at. How did your parents react to getting jammed up that quickly after just getting out? I mean, they probably thought it was regular. I don't know. My dad tended to always think everything was like the system's fault. And I did for a period as well. But I don't know if it was that, you know.

It was just like, obviously my mother was upset with me with that. Cause she came up, the police told her to juvenile, told her to come to the station with her. And they showed me the video of me and I denied it. And then, and I was like, all right, yes. Cause it was clear. I took my mask. I'm like, fuck. And she just like, she might've smacked me or something or something like that. Like, let me kick your ass or something. You know, I know she's disappointed, but when I actually went, I know everybody was like crying, you know? Cause that's hard. Every time I went, you know, pretty much. And

You know, to me, it was just, it ended up becoming normal. Were your parents together or did they get a divorce at some point? Uh, they were together. They've, um, there was some separation at time. My mother didn't live under the best conditions with my father, we'll say, without, you know, he's pissed now. So, uh, a lot of things that I'm not proud of for him as my father, you know what I mean? So, but my mother was struggling to, uh,

to hold us down. She stayed for us, or I think she would have left long before that. And that takes a lot of strength, man. But women do not stay in abusive relationships. Just leave. Do whatever you need to. Leave. Don't do it. It's going to be worse for the children.

It's going to be worse for the children. My mom did what she thought was best and I'm glad everything happened like it did. But it's hard, especially when your kids are like, no, you know, they don't want you going with nobody else. And I told her, you know, I support you. You want to go with someone? And we had that talk when he was still alive. You know what I mean? And not all my brothers and sisters felt that way. Like, no, I want her to stay with, you know, she dealt with some shit, man. That's not cool.

Yeah. So they were separate, but they were together and that, you know how that goes with, with the relationship. So technically they were together, but kind of not. And, you know. Do you think that had a big effect on your mentality, the anger? Yeah. Yeah. You, you didn't know what kind of day you're going to get my father. Um,

You know, if he's going to beat us, although I got it the least out of everybody, I think I was his favorite, but you know, we still got it. There was still times he hit us with the bat in the legs, not full throttle, but you know, a little nice little beat our ass for nothing or, you know, or just flip. If he beat us or mom hugged us and then he would beat us worse because she was

What's that called? Coddling or whatever it's called nurturing us. And I think I, as a man, I grew up to seek that nurturing in women. You just don't find nobody ever adds up to your mother, man, because it was another, but we were kind of deprived of not because of my mother. She always wanted to give it to us, but my father felt some type of way because he was just a jealous person, whether her attention was to us or to anything besides him.

You know, and 100% that shaped a lot of my thinking. So do you feel like your violent tendencies came directly from your dad? I mean, he had violent outbursts, not directly, but it played a part. That, and like I said, the bullying from childhood, I think was a lot. And just anger, because you don't know how to express yourself, man. What are you going to do? You're a kid, you don't know any better. You're growing up with anger, so you're holding everything in. You don't know how to let it out. And when you finally do, when it's with these or with not, you know, that's where all the extra shit comes in.

What about addiction? Did you struggle with that at all yourself? Um, not my earlier years. I don't like to talk about this, but before I went to prison, my last time is a part of my life. Now I had about a year, uh, or less than a year, but about up to a year of, of, uh, struggling with addiction prison helped me from that. Um,

And, uh, you know, a lot of bullshit came from that cause it fucks your thinking up, but you're seeking, like you, you have so much hurt and pain from prison. Like you're seeking to make up for that in the most, you know, extreme way because you're deprived all these years. People are grown up now. They're not out there fucking partying. I'm out there coming from, from, from, from, from prison, trying to make up for lost time. And that was, and ended up being the route I took. And, uh, you know, it's like I said, I, there's a lot of regrets for that, but I can't, I can't, I, I,

I don't wish to take back anything I've been through, man, because it made me who I gave me a broader just understanding. And it just it just opened my mind up to like, you know, it just gave me a whole bunch of insight into myself as a person. It's like I said, you can't address the behavior. You got to address the thinking behind it. Was positive or negative. You do that. You'll take over the fucking world, man. You know what I mean?

Tell us about your first prison sentence after you got caught. You said you did some time in county and then you made it to prison. So, like I said, I got two to four. They said boot camp eligible. You'd be out in six months. Long story short, I get into all this shit. I catch a case with, I'm upstate a month, man. Got my face cut. Well, yeah, I was upstate a month in Camp Hill. I came from grades for three weeks. One week in Camp Hill, I ended up getting into some shit. It was like, it was gang related. Another gang member. I thought I checked him and all that. And it's like, uh,

It doesn't work like that in prison. You know, I'm turning my back to him like on some cocky shit. Like, yeah, you're nobody. It was like an inch from my, uh. That's a scar right there? Yeah, that's a scar. And what did he do? Come up behind you or? Yeah, he just come up real quick and he tried running down with a cop. So I'm waiting patiently. I don't want to draw and go right to the hole. Right. So I'm like, damn, I didn't know he cut me originally. So he's down there near the cops. I'm waiting for him to come back up the stairs. He got me on the way up the stairs. I'm like this. I'm like, damn, I think he cut me.

And I touch it again. When you're cut, you're not supposed to touch it. I didn't know at the time. I'm fresh upstate. Who

who's cutting each other's faces on the street. You know what I mean? So it's all guns and, you know. Why can't you touch it? Well, when you touch it, it spreads it open. That's when it busts. So if somebody can get cut, it won't even look like, that's why usually upstate, like if they arrange a hit, one person cuts, the next person comes up and hits them to split it because you want to make a scene. You want people to see the blood. It's very messy. It's not that it hurts. You don't even feel it. You know what I mean? I got twice, another time I got cut across here and must've hit it with the wrong, that was a ride up my other jail.

We can get into that. Was he aiming for your neck and missed? I don't know. I dipped back a little bit. I mean, you know, they're known for cutting faces, that specific gang. So I don't know, but it was close, man. I dipped back a little bit and it got me right on the...

You know, it got me right on the edge of my chin. So when you get caught like that, do you feel like you're going to die? Nah, nah. It was just like, I was pissed like this motherfucker. If you've had that sound from Babbel before, I bet you do. Babbel is the science-backed language learning app that actually works with

Quick 10-minute lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts. Babbel gets you on your way to speaking a new language in just a few weeks. With over 16 million subscriptions sold and a 20-day money-back guarantee, just start speaking another language with Babbel. Right now, up to 55% off your Babbel subscription at babbel.com slash Spotify podcast. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Spotify podcast. Rules and restrictions may apply. And I just went on them and, you know, and then we both got grabbed. Now I'm in handcuffs. They put a pillowcase here and just my face is just leaking.

League, when I first came on the block, dudes were like, you know, I'm spitting certain stuff, like claiming whatever I was claiming at the time and all that. And dudes like, yo, don't do that. They sent the last guy out here. Man, fuck that. I'm talking shit, man. I'm cocky. I'm coming up as a white guy. I'm not from Philly. I'm from outside of Philly. So I'm not going up there like certain people from North Philly. They're going to go up there. They're going to know 10 dudes from the rip. They have support. They have commissary. I'm coming up by myself.

I'm the minority now, you know what I mean? So you don't have anybody. You have to prove a point. You have to make a point. Either you're victimizing or you're a victim. And, you know, I guess on that time I was more close to a victim because, you know, should handle. But I learned after that started carrying a razor blade in my mouth. I'd eat with it. The razors back then there was, you know, the little disposal ones. There's two of them. One of them used to be a little bigger and one used to be smaller. The bigger one would hurt because it'll cut your mouth when you're in there. But I just put the razor right in here. I said, I'm gonna get 10 of these motherfuckers now.

You got me once, I'm getting 10 of you. Like I was on a war pith after that. It set me off. I don't care anymore. I go home when I want to go home. I said, fuck that boot camp, fuck parole, you know? And I just, I would literally right here, I went through a whole riot in my other jail, Housdale with a razor in my mouth. I forgot I had it in there till the end of the ride. Cause guys got knives. I'm not pulling out a fucking razor. You know what I mean? That's not going to help me. And we're outnumbered frigging like 10 to one or something like

I don't know if I'm exaggerating there, but there was a lot of them. There's like 13 of us. There was like probably like 60 of them, 50 of them, something like that. When you, all the times you're in prison, would you run with a gang or an association or anything? I did at first left. And then I started dealing with one that was closer to my area group fraternity. I'll call it, I'll call it a gang, but, uh,

Yeah, because I grew up associated with one thing out of disloyalty. Me putting in work, I put in work in every jail. I got kicked out of three jails my first time upstate from the rip. You know, the gang stuff, then riot, then stabbing. You know, I was going crazy and it was all putting in work for people mostly that were – that I was – and then what happened is because, you know, me being white –

They start getting envious. At first you come up, wait, they're like, oh, you're not going to ride. And then they see how you get it in and that you're staying a toe to toe with anybody and you're dropping a dime. You're ready to, you know, stab or fight or whatever. Now they start getting envious because people start talking about you and not them.

And that happened after our riot and the people we, we, we, we went against, which was one main group and some of another, um, I'm purposely not saying names. It doesn't matter. It's not relevant. Group A, B, and C, you know, um, group B and C were bigging me up. Like the only one we respect out of you guys is the white guy wasn't with all white guys at the time. You know what I mean? And, and,

Our state is not like racially segregated. It doesn't go like that. You fit in with who you fit in with. Most of the white guys in our state, unfortunately, are disgusting pedophiles and shit like that. Or if you're a white guy in upstate, like you're stigmatized from the rip. So you got to show differently.

paperwork first and then you know the rest the rest is just all in action did you like prison politics like where you did that hype you up did you want to go off do you send off missions all this kind of stuff oh yeah yeah I've just done that right before I left yeah because you were doing it on the street yeah yeah that's that's when you were actually get to get to be the one that that that pull certain strings or can can orchestrate certain things like that's that's a powerful position sometimes you got to utilize that I was in a situation right before I came came home and I'm like I don't want to get myself I'm like I don't want to get myself

go crack that dude in the head with a lock. He violated, you know, so go crack him in the head with a lock. But he deserved it. He stole, you know, whatever. He deserved that, man. Like I said, I'm not glorifying it, but you know, prison, this is why nobody wants to go to prison, but going back to prison is like trying to change my mindset. I'm like, I know it's going to bring me back to a place of violence.

wanting to be violent, being aggressive. Even though it was more mild this time, I think I got in one fight upstate, but I set an example. So nobody else wanted to fuck with me. People knew you. They respected. You know what I mean? But it's a great feeling when I just told somebody this the other day, right? At first, you know, dudes walk by. I'm a white guy. So people automatically assume you're like a lot of the other white guys that are soft upstate. You know what I mean? It's not like the feds. This is different. These are different types of different groups of white guys. I met white guys from Cali and all that. They're, you know,

They're a little different than a lot of dudes. But, you know, so some of the other dudes, other races, they'll walk by, give you, you know, just a little look. But then the very next day, complete change of attitude. You know someone told them something about you because then it's like, yo, hey, C's, what's up?

What's up? Oh, you owe tattoos and did it. Now they want to talk to you about all this shit. But the other day you just walked by me with an eye that almost made me put my fucking hands on you. You know what I mean? That's I'm not going lots of good feelings. I came from a place of being bullied, but I don't respect that because that tells me if I was a soft white guy that you would have just approached me. However, and you want to show me that same respect to me that that that signs of an oppressor. I don't like that. That's the people that I'm at most vulnerable to do something to.

Do you feel like you fit in, in prison? Like those were your people that was, you thrived off of that environment. Yeah. And that's hard because you're trying to adapt to society. Now prison is where I survived. The politics in prison is how I survived. And that's what I learned. And then trying to adjust to society's politics, which is way different with way, way more disrespect in society than in prison. People think prison is, is where you're getting to. No, I deal with way more. I had dealt with way more disrespect on a street that I wouldn't have took him, but you have to, because these are people that don't know better. The people's society looked

so much down, so down on people that have been to prison are usually the pieces of shit in society that won't hold the door for you. An old lady or help her with her bags, or, you know, she's trying to shovel her sidewalk. You're just like, yeah, whatever, you know, but these are the people that look down on us. Like, you know what I mean? And, and, and so that type of disrespect and lack of morals, you don't really have in prison. You get it here now because there's more young dudes, but so, you know, you're trying to balance that. So I'm dealing with worse than what I dealt in prison. Yeah.

to certain degrees, but I got to handle it in a way different manner. I can't use violence. Although trust me, sometimes you think your head, I wish I could smack this mouth, you know, but you can't in jail. That's something that somebody would got stabbed for closing the door on somebody's face or something. If they're not a child molester or something, that's, that's disrespectful, man. And that's just part of the politics, man. It's part of the politics respect. And you earn that with violence in prison. No other way. There's no other way to earn respect in prison besides violence.

Did you ever think about how your parents, your family felt, you know, maybe coming to visit you? You got a scar on your face. You're talking about prison politics, which they have no idea about. You're all hype. You feel good, but they're looking at you like you might be becoming a monster. How did that make you feel? Well, they were more scared. Like when I got my face cut, like you got your what? Before they found I actually got my face cut, somebody had heard from the street because the jails are connected to –

Jals are connected to to to the street, you know, but they heard that I got my throat cut They thought I died somebody told him that I was killed and they were upset And then in the beginning like i'm telling the stories that are happening Jail Yes, dude got stabbed and did it at the end. It's just normal and plus you don't want to worry I'm dude just got stabbed and we're like i'm on the phone like nothing happened like dude's getting stabbed there Yeah, we might be locked down in a minute. No, just some shit happened This dude got his whole freaking neck stabbed or whatever blood, you know, and

So at the end, it was different in the beginning and the end. But I know that hurt them, man. Crying on visits and all that. That's rough. That's rough knowing that you're hurting your family. They're worried about you. They don't know how you're surviving in there or what you're doing or what's being done to you. They don't know. You know what I mean? They just know what either they've seen on TV or what we tell them. So I would try to keep them at calm. You know, even when I was...

at threat of, of, of being seriously hurt or hurting somebody else. Seriously. You're not always top dog there. Sometimes you're vulnerable too. And you got to take that on head to head. Like I'm not backing down. I'm not hiding. I'm going to yard. I'm going, you know, wherever, and I'm a strap up too. And that's just where I was at. And I lived that way for years. And I know it put a stress because I'm, you got to mind, you got to understand I'm going to, to

to the hole for stabbing. My brother came up for a surprise visit and I had just stabbed somebody. I was under investigation. And he's like, damn, now his girlfriend came up, drove all this way to see me. Couple hours, right? Whatever. You can only get a visit from immediate family in the hole through glass. I'm like, bro, you got to tell me next time you're coming up because if I'm about to do something, I would have held off. He's like, you should have just, I'm not just, oh, if something has to be handled, you handle it. You don't hold off, but maybe I could have waited a day. Another visit, I'm sharpening one of my knives. I get a surprise visit from my brother's.

I got all this shit out. I'm like, oh, I got to give it to my, yo, can you put this up? My celly puts it up. They end up finding the rock. We're using to sharpen it, which doesn't work good for, I should have used the, the wall works better. The rocks don't work like, we were just trying some, but these things were hard to sharpen me. It took a lot of hours, bro. Like,

How are you guys making knives in there? I know you said you had razors, but the actual knives. Oh, man. So, in that specific, let's see. Most of mine I got from other people. You got two types of main weapons in jazz. Knives, which are shaped like a knife, and ice pick. That's how they're classified, ice pick or not. I had both. Ice picks are better for getting through clothes, wintertime. But people are scared of them because they cause internal bleeding. It's more likely that they're going to die from it.

My stabbing in Mahanoi was with an ice pick in the neck and here. But it takes like 10 minutes. So there's that. And then the knives. The knives I got myself, ice picks was always from someone else off of the fence or whatever. Sometimes you find them. Now, where I got my knives from in one jail was the library. So if you ever, you don't have any bookshelf here. If you go into a library and you know they got the long stack of books and they have a metal stain, it's like in the shape of a C.

Like to hold up the books. To hold up the books. It goes under and it's there. So they didn't make you go through the metal detector in this, or it didn't work in the library. So I'm like, they fucked up. My boy put me on. We're just bringing them back. First time we bring that back to sharp. We don't even sharpen them yet. Now these are like, these are like thick. It's like that. You got to break this top off. Like I said, it's a C and then it's this thick metal. It took me maybe,

40 hours, 30 hours to sharpen each one, like not even, you know, and first day we grab before you sharpen, they're like, untie your sheets on your bed. I'm like, oh, shake down. We're trying to throw it out the door slots, like the extra pieces. It's like, doom, we're like, oh,

trying to throw a shit. He's like, yo, give me the shit. Hurry up, bro. They're coming. Finally get it out there. Like, fuck it. We stashed the other ones into the wall. Cause it was the, we had, oh, nevermind. Nevermind. Nevermind. Nevermind. I can't say that. I can't say that. They didn't find that. The one they did find. So we still had them in a cell like months later when we ended up getting caught for a whack. Cause somebody told on us too much talent out of these. They only found the ice pick and we had that inside of a toothpaste container.

But I told my, the person that my celly at the time, like, bro, don't put in this. When you got put in a, there's a specific way to do it. So they don't notice you need one kind is different than the other. And I just leave that there. But yeah,

I don't want to give no hints. I know CEOs are going to be watching this, man. I don't want to give no hints. Sorry, guys. Hey, everyone gives up the game, man. Yeah. Do you think about now what would have happened if you just lived a regular prison lifestyle, like sat your ass down in the corner, did your time, stayed quiet, not gotten to these prison antics? Because it is possible to do. You don't have to do what you did before.

You wanted to do what you did and take part in that. I never actually thought of that. I don't know. I know people that there's a lot of brilliant people in prison.

There's a lot of intelligent people in prison. Like I was talking to with your, uh, with Matt and, um, like people are running million dollar blocks on the street. Like if you applied it to some positive, you'll be a beast. So if I would have applied myself in prison more, like I studied a lot. Cause my, my, my, my philosophy is always this. You lose so much going into prison. You got to leave with something you didn't go in with. What can you leave with? Not property, knowledge, wisdom. You

You're coming from adversity take something from it So if I would have dedicated more time to study I would have been an expert or whatever I chose to study There's dudes that are paralegals that didn't know shit about law that just from studying in in prison So I think it would have been more like that But however, I still don't take because I wouldn't have had this mindset I had to go through all that the bullshit I had to be on both sides of it to get to the mindset I'm at now and it's an unstoppable mindset and it's the best feeling in the world when you have nothing But everything you know what I mean? And that's how I feel

I'm prepared for anything because of my mindset, because of what I went through. So let me ask you something. If you go back to prison, God forbid tomorrow, how is that experience going to be different than the past ones? I'm going to be honest. I would love to say I'm going in there positive because of recent revelations and certain stuff and certain people coming,

turning against me for, for something that's not even relevant, I would probably hurt a lot more people because I'm not taking no shit. First, first wrong eye. And I hate to say that because where I am as a person, and this is not a level I would, we want to take it in the streets right now, but in prison, I know, because if not, I'm being more of a victim now because people are going to view you as weak. You know what I mean? You're not viewing me as weak as soon as you, you claim, because now, now you're, you're, you're a threat to me on some level. So I approach threats head on.

You know, so unfortunately, it wouldn't be a good thing. So I got to try my hardest not to go back. And my mindset makes me confident in that. But you're always scared of a slip up, man, because you can you can win a thousand battles in your life a day. Right. Nobody sees that. They only see that one time you fuck up and slip back into your old behavior. You know what I mean? And so that's always a possibility. It does scare me. Even when you're not doing nothing wrong. I hear cop cars. I'm like, shit, are they coming for me? I didn't do nothing. I'm tripping.

But it's scary. It gets my heart racing every time I see them. So knowing that, does that give you enough motivation, do you think, to keep you from not going back there? Yeah, I sure in the fuck hope so, man. I believe so. But, you know, the past is it's hard. I'm trying to get out of a pessimistic mindset. I watch motivational videos and they say pessimists are right more often than optimists. So it's easy to be pessimistic.

but optimists are way more successful. You know what I mean? So pessimists are, yeah, they're right. But optimists believe they did better than they did. So they keep doing good. So that's what that mindset. I'm trying to keep optimism. I'm not trying to think pessimistically, but anything is possible. You know what I mean? And I'm trying to prepare myself because I'm doing everything right. My medication, I got on right. I got my...

my weed card right not doing it legal not you know what I mean even the medication I knew would help me I didn't go get illegal I just did it the right way let my PO know I'm you know I'm trying to do stuff right I'm trying to get a legit job I had a few ways I could have made money that was in the streets that I almost went there because it's like I said same game different product and I had to realize that oh well it's not drugs not this is not violence it's not but it's no it's still that you

You know what I mean? I don't got to say it's still that it's still under the umbrella of criminal behavior and criminal thinking. And I said, fuck that, bro. I'll stay here broke until I can get a job. And that's it. Fuck it. I don't care. But also with that mindset, you got to be careful because there's situations that you wouldn't tolerate in prison.

of that are considered disrespect that would pop off to something violent that happened every day in the world you could be at a starbucks man someone could look at you the wrong way it caught you in line and your your first response might be i gotta stab this guy because he just i just got disrespected no not no more though yes you're right for for like when i first came home my first bit with a positive mindset um just i didn't change my thinking like i thought everybody was like looking at me staring me i'm like ready to

Weird because I was socially anxious. I couldn't go to the counter to pay for my own shit. You know what I mean? But at the same time, I'm ready to go at anybody heads up because I was, I was, I was passive until I became aggressive. I had to learn that assertiveness, but I say that to say, I handle situations better out here in prison. It's different. If I don't approach that this way, you know, going in, then, then people are going to come at me. You're going to have more problems than you would if you just make an example, the first couple of people, you know what I mean? Unfortunately, you know, that's why I'm trying not to put myself. I can, I,

To the best of my ability and controlling my the people places and things around me because I know what type of events trigger me Whenever a situation happens or almost happen when I stab somebody in jail or I almost have somebody in jail look back to When I got in my later years like what can I have done to prevent this from happening or almost happening in the future? If I know this is a triggering event, you know what I mean? Something like that. I just gotta take on because I can't give up my life I feel like too many people rely on me. I still got people that are stuck behind them walls. They got nobody I

There's people that are kids that went throughout what I went through to think they got no hope. You know what I mean? I can be that hope for them. I can be that helping hand. I have to build something that I can help so I can help people. So I have my own feet to stand on so I can lift other people up as well.

And that's more important to me than my pride with somebody saying something or bumping me in it I'll say excuse me. I'll let them think i'm weak You know what? I mean as long as it's not an immediate threat to me Any children women or anybody, you know anybody vulnerable, you know As long as it's not an oppressive situation involving somebody innocent I can handle it man. I know I can handle it I have handled it. I've handled worse recently and I was proud of myself. I didn't

100% like I wish I did. However, it didn't go to the extent that it would have years ago because it would have been a drastic difference. So you got out of prison after the two to four. I'm assuming you probably did all four because I did five because I caught a case in prison. I caught extra cases. I got this wasn't even a stab was just the knife. I was about to ice pick. It was like this dude would probably die. So it was some duties. This is crazy. It's part of prison politics.

The reason that we were going to stab this dude for is because he looked at my friend. Let that sit. He looked at him. You know what I mean? You get this all the time. You just looked at him for a second too long and you're with a group that is considered what we call ops. Like, you know, they're on the opposite side. And that's what it was. I got caught the morning of it and fucking see, I was going through my stuff. I got in my kitchen, weighed down my bed, just finished sharpening because they're about to use it. I can't hide it. They're like, you got anything in here? I'm like, nope, tattoo needle.

Drops on a bed, it's like, "Dun!" They're like, "Holy shit!" Cuffed me up. But security wanted me to tell her, take a case. I took a case, six months to a year. I maxed it out, extra year, did five years. And then that was that. - How old were you when you got out? - 24. - You were 24? - Didn't even know how to drive yet. - So what happens after that? Do you go look for a job? Are you trying to get your life back on track? - Yeah, online college, personal training, learned a lot.

Uh working at a trash place shitty pay 100 a day 13 hour days But i'm beast lifting like 40 tons of trash a day doing good. You know what I mean? and then Slipping up one day. I go to a bar not drinking. It was a work night, which I didn't like to go out I went out with an ex at the time and then um This dude kind of violated. I didn't take it. Well, uh, and then I end up hitting him and I I broke his chin in two places John three, uh

He needed reconstructive surgery. It was one hit though. But I still thought I was like innocent because like you're sending me back for... They gave me agravated shoulder originally turned to a simple. I ended up doing one to two for that. I maxed that out. But...

Yeah, but everything else I was pretty good, but that was criminal mentality. I didn't get it out. It was still institutionalized because this is how I would have reacted in prison, and I was still reacting that way. Did your mom stay supportive throughout these times? Always. My whole family. My whole family. Do you feel like you needed a little bit more tough love on you? I don't.

I don't think anybody could have done anything externally to change it because it was like, if you tell me one thing, the reason I even hit that dude is because after he, like, I felt violated, the bartender looked at me. He's like, you're not telling me what to do. Boom. And I just blasted this dude. He was a big dude. So I sat him down. The ER surgeon said, there was no way the damage was done with a fist. I hurt. I hit this dude hard. I'm working out. I'm working in trash. I'm strong. Like I, I dismantled this dude's face. His jaw was just hanging.

Like it was bad. He pops right back up. I couldn't believe I wasn't even ready because I knew he was going down. He must have been high or something. There's no way you just pop back up with a hit like that. No way, man. But yeah, that was like $30,000. Fortunately, he didn't file for restitution because I would have had to pay them. Now, every case you had going through this, you always had a public defender or a paid attorney? No, I don't think I ever had a public defender. Wasted money on paid attorneys every time. And I don't think they did anything except what...

What a public defender would have done. I don't think they gave me any better deal. Who would pay for it? Your family or yourself? So what was the first time was I think money I had saved from the restaurant, from a restaurant I was at. My boss put it up. Out of money I saved, I believe. And then I think my girlfriend finished paying it off. My second bid...

my second bit might have been a public defender. Then the last one was a girlfriend that she did a lot for. I told her not to, and she spent like her and her mother, you know, thank you. Um, Tina and Diana, Diana's past, uh, unfortunately, but, um, did a lot for me, man. And I, I, I didn't have no money then. I'm like, yo, don't, don't do this shit. That's when I was facing my, my case for a stab and this guy almost died and all. They gave me, uh,

I took it for robbery, a serious bodily injury, but they gave me aggravated assault, all that stuff. I just chose that charge because I thought it looked better on paper. But yeah, that was the case she put up the money for. Like I was facing a lot of time, but, uh, and I ended up getting it. That was your last case?

Last number, I ended up violating with another case, which was a simple assault. But that was my last number, LW7080. I think I got my state. Oh, they give you a new number every time you go in? New case, yeah. Okay, that's your case number, not your inmate number. Yeah, well, inmate number, yeah. Every new case, you get a new number. This is my last one. This is my last one. Okay. DOC. But, yeah. Did you ever have kids throughout this? No, I didn't.

See, there's a silver lining there. Yeah. No, there's a lot of people that have lived your life that have, you know, two or three kids. It could be worse. You know, you got to think about that. Yeah. I see what that goes for. Not saying having kids is bad, but it's just imagine being where you're at now with two or three kids out there. Yeah. Yeah. And there's people in them situations and don't have the support system that I had.

I have a great support system. I don't know what I would do without them. Like, especially my mother, my sister, like my whole family, you know what I mean? But I was able to come home to a house and this and that. No, no real responsibilities, even though it feels like you have every responsibility in the world. You know what I mean? So, yeah.

So that the next case after that other one you were telling us about in your 20s, you caught that one at 24 or 25? Yeah, 24. At the bar? Yeah, at the bar. You did two years? Two years. That was uneventful, Biv. That was bullshit jail. So that's pretty, pretty uneventful. Then the next one was a stab in. All right. Tell us about that. Just come home. No money. My cousin lines up a, a, a,

A lick I didn't know at the time he's getting high Whatever this dude's supposed to have some drugs some money whatever Let's rob him take the money I'm not getting high at the time I just want the money Long story short I go pick him up he hands me a gun I'm like bro it's his light You're gonna get us killed man This dude's fucking Egyptian he's from over there He's not gonna just give this shit up bro No no he don't carry a gun Give me the knife bro give me the knife

Last minute, I'm like, give me a knife, bro. I remember I stopped to see my homie before I picked up my cousin. I borrowed my girlfriend's car. I got gloves on. He's like, bro, what are you about to do? He knows me from back in the day. And I just smiled like, he's like, bro, be safe. Go pick up my cousin.

We go he has his girl with him. You never bring a girl to to us I mean there's some riding girls out there But so we get in he gets in and my cousin gets in the passenger I get in the backseat across from the dude and then I got the knife here I think I had the gun here even though it was empty. I don't know what the fuck I'm, just hoping he just gives it up. I don't want to hurt this dude Yo, give it up. He don't want to give it up blah blah blah Listen brah, I don't want to hurt you. He don't give it up. I just start stabbing him back So he had a lot of defense I aimed for his neck But because he was like this and he grabbed the knife from somewhere. He's trying to stab me i'm hitting all here

The one that almost killed him was, I believe, I hit an artery in his arm. So there was a lot of blood at the scene. When I stabbed or used to stab, when I was in my violent years, I give the whole knife. So it was a whole knife. I have a few stabbings, known and unknown. But the ones I got called for and ones I won't speak of. But that was the only time that I actually seen like blood because the blood don't stay on the knife. Like it's stainless steel. But this is the only time I seen blood on. So I knew it was bad. My cousin chased him like, bro, come on, we're out.

And fortunately, the way they found this dude and saved his life is when he left the scene, he's losing a lot of blood. They had to put eight bags of blood back in this dude, but he sideswiped a whole bunch of vehicles and they called it hit and runs and they found him slumped over in his out front of his house and they were able to, to medevac him out and save his life.

And then, yeah, so. Do you ever think about how lucky you are that no one died? Yeah, because it was a dumb situation. Like, it wasn't meant for that. But, like, I think back, like, why did you do that? Because that's what I would have done in prison. You challenged me. I told you to do something. You didn't do it. You challenged me. Now I have to react in the most severely violent way as possible. And that was not even thinking, trying to stab you in the neck. Like, bro, what? Yeah.

Like, what is wrong with you, bro? Like, but that's where I was at. That's where I was at. And it took a long time to get out of that. Because like I said, after everything we already spoke about, this sets you up, predisposes you to this type of thinking. Like, you know, so this is how you handle stuff. So what they ended up charging you with that attempted murder? No, they didn't give me a temp. They gave me a aggravated assault, uh,

uh, robbery with serious bodily injury and some other underlying charges. In the end, I was able to take a deal. I got to choose between aggravated assault and robbery, robbery, SBI, serious bodily injury. I thought robbery would look better because art's not aggravated. So I thought it would look better on your record. But robbery, I think is considered like what they call a crime of, uh, uh, what do they call it? Like,

But premeditated a little bit? No, it's like, it's like a crime of passion? Not passion. It's like a theft, like any type of theft. It doesn't look good. They don't want you working around money now because you got a robbery. You can't work at any regular store. Right. So, so certain jobs will not hire you because you have red looks, it makes you look like a thief, which I'm not.

But you took that deal, right? Yeah, I did. Cause I thought it would look better, but I could have took aggravated. So he was like, my, my lawyer's like the same thing. Four and a half to nine. I was fortunate. This dude went in there. It's like, yeah, I was selling them drugs and it helped me a lot. Then during the trial, he got locked up for selling drugs again. So you're not looking at this guy. Like he's, he was selling drugs. So I, I chose him because it's like, bro, you're killing people. Like, I don't care what happens to you. I don't feel bad for it. Like I'm, I shouldn't have done it, but I don't feel bad for it. You're, you're killing people every day, man. That's why they didn't give you attempted murder.

Maybe, maybe, I don't know. But mind you, although I was aiming for the neck, they don't know that. They just know what he's telling me. He don't tell me he's trying, you know, so his marks are down here because he's, like I said, they're defensive. He's here trying to stab. So I'm trying to hit his neck, but I'm getting all here.

you know, so maybe it didn't look like I was there, you know, and it's not like, oh, I'm going to kill this dude. I'm just, you refuse. And I just, that's where I stab in the neck or try to, you know. How much time did you serve for that? Originally about five years. I made parole my second time, surprisingly, you know, surprisingly, but then I violated six months violation with,

Leaving a halfway house, something dumb. Left a halfway house to help somebody. With another staffing? No, actually something positive. It was a girl that was on Facebook and she was like in the streets and she was like,

She was like i'm tired of being on the streets by myself. She was in philly She she said she got raped three times and I just want somebody i'm like listen I'm gonna halfway house i'm gonna try to find someone if not I will leave and i'll help you and my father was terminally ill at the time Unfortunately, he made it past that he didn't make it past this last bit But I went to try to help her didn't work out But I gave this woman my word and I I told her like I don't have nothing but I can come there and try to make sure you're safe and

And that didn't turn out good, but you know, I got there and, you know, I tried to show support and all that. And they sent me back. I'm okay with that. I went for doing something good. I'm fine with that. I've never been able to do that. I've been in prison a lot of times. I can't say, yo, it was one was for a good reason. Fuck it. Like, all right, I'll take that. I wish I would have been able to help her and she would have listened a little or, you know, trusted me a little more or, you know, whatever it was, but yeah.

you know, the intentions were good. But how does it make you feel that even though you did good intentions, you lost time that could have been spent with your dad? Everything's a learning experience, man. And, you know, at that time I was, I was also fighting the year addiction I told you about. So it stopped. They put a six month hold on that. Now I did continue when I, when I got back out to a degree and then I went back to jail, prison. And, you know, that was, that was my last case that I just came home from. So,

I, you know, I don't regret, I can't regret anything. I mean, I was blessed with time with my family, my father, who, like I said, has passed since. And what I was blessed with, I have to accept, you know, this is how life goes. How do you make amends with the people you hurt?

I'm trying to help now. Like I've apologized. I'm trying to find two specific people, three specific people from childhood that I said something to, because I still live with certain traumas of what was done and said to me and from childhood. And I know specific people. I said one comment to one comment, bro, in high school and to other people. I used to kind of like at times bully. I was bullied. I wasn't a bully.

The person at boot, I always sat with the girl that sat by herself or tried to help people, but I don't know why, maybe because of my pain and going through what I went through these two specific kids. And I don't know their name.

That's not okay with me. That's not okay with me because they can have some type of fucked up thinking nowadays because of that. You know what I mean? Like me, I have fucked up thinking because of what came from my childhood. Things I've went through, things people put me through. So I'm trying to make amends in that way, reach out just to let you know I see you. I remember this was not minute. It wasn't frivolous to me. I know that I hurt you.

whether physical or just mentally. And that's not okay with me. So I try to reach out in that way. I've spoke to certain exes that I've hurt, not physically, but mentally. I went through some shit. I used to, I went from a good dude in relationship to a piece of shit that was hurt

Hurt, um, hurting women back. And now I'm just a good dude now. And I'm confident saying that. So I reached back to these people like, listen, I just want to let you know, you didn't deserve that. I wasn't in the right state of mind. I had a fucked up way of thinking. You know what I mean? So that's very important to me. Making amends.

What the people deserve to do what I stand on. I mean, bro, you're selling drugs, bro. All right. Like go ask somebody else for sorry, man. I don't, I don't regret that. I just, it wasn't justified in doing it, but it was justified to happen to him. You know what I mean? If that makes sense, I shouldn't have been the one to do it, but you deserved it, bro. But the people that were unjustifiably hurt, you know, I regret that.

My last case was I committed myself to a state hospital. I was getting paranoid. I thought this, this, this, he was a psych tech. It wasn't male. I don't hurt women, even if I'm paranoid. You know what I mean? When I get paranoid, I tend to think people around me, innocent people, women and children are in danger or myself. And I was in that mindset and I committed myself to a state hospital. I told him this, they mishandled me. This guy comes up and, and just certain things he did make me paranoid. He was holding his keys in his knuckles. And I was like,

Try making a joke about it because I was scared upstate. That's how they beat you They put the keys in their knuckles and big ass keys and they punch you in the head I seen a million times man I seen a million times it set me off and I almost took this dude's life because I not not out of malice It wasn't out of malice man. I thought they're gonna attack me and I end up choking him I remember the minute I let him go because I was still halfway there And because after he passed out I was going to keep going because I didn't want him to wake up and hurt me

I had to take him out and I almost took this man's life and he's an innocent person. That's not okay. But I need to find a way to reach out to him because, because he's a victim, I can't just reach out. I got to find a way out to, to reach out to him. Like, listen, it wasn't out of malice. It wasn't cause it was, I misread the situation because of the trauma that

and undiagnosed, but PTSD, which I think I have, uh, uh, triggered me, made certain things trigger me to think I was in danger. And I just reacted. I didn't think, I didn't think this through. Oh, I'm going to know. I see an opportunity because I thought you're trying and I, you know, and that's when I did my lay and I was made at the system for that for years, but I still put myself in that position or certain things I could have done to put me in a healthier state of mind to not get to that point of paranoia and, and, and violence, unjustified violence.

Do you feel like the system was too easy on you, gave you too many chances? I mean, you've done a lot of violent acts, but have only gotten a couple years, four years. What do you think about if that first time you got, say, 10 or 12 years at one bid, that would have been enough to change you? I think I was fortunate in the time I've gotten, but I don't think that would have changed anything. I might have been worse, man. That first bid, I almost messed up. So my stabbing in that first bid, that's when I was wild. If that was longer...

I was about to stab a CO that day. My attention got directed to somebody else that done something else. I was ready to stab 'cause he got me kicked out of a program over nothing. I was gonna stab him in his neck that day. That was my plan. I told my homie to kick me out of this program, I'm stabbing in his fucking neck. Unfortunately, like I said, I'm not trying to glorify this, but this is where I was at.

And if I had more time and it wasn't the case, I know for a fact, there's a lot of things. Like I still restrain myself to a degree because that's something you're getting a lot of time for. You're getting more time. A lot of people don't realize, you know, but you can get more time in jail. You can get street charges and extend your sentence. And that would have gave me a lot more. So if they gave me a lot more to begin with, I would have been doing,

say they gave me 10 years, five, you know, whatever, I think I would end up doing like 20, man, because of the mindset I was in. Everything happened like it was supposed to happen. I'm fortunate. But yeah, I think I was more on the fortunate end with, because some of my crimes could have, I could have gotten a lot, especially that stabbing, man. If it didn't play out the way it played and him going in and being honest, like saying like, well, at least partially honest, saying I was trying, I would have probably got, because I know dudes that got a lot of time for that type of shit. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And, or if I would hit him in his neck, it would, you know, so, but no, man, it's, it's, it happened. I think optimally for me to be who I am today, man. Since getting out, have you been able to make and meet new people that are not involved in street life?

that are you know like participating hard-working you know citizens that you could surround yourself with yeah absolutely i don't trust people too much i don't trust people's intentions for the most part jail makes you cautious but i'm getting better i'm pushing my boundaries a little bit at a time it's hard it's hard because what scares me or makes me nervous is not the people that are killing people i know plenty of murderers on and off the street you know what i mean it's

it's, it's, it's the upstanding citizens, bro. I might, if I didn't know who you were, I might look at you twice walking by me because this is what I don't have experience with. I don't have experience with the day-to-day people. And to me in my mind, which I'm fighting now is man, they're the most efficient killers.

That's what i'm thinking because you're always thinking on that level Like I said, it's not that severe anymore, but I don't try I see a shadow going past my door I'm looking people like no you're cool. No, you don't understand because we used to set people up like this You know what? I mean? So now i'm thinking that about everybody you send Unsuspecting people when you want to take somebody out in an effective manner What's unsuspecting to me is people that look a certain way that are supposed to be upstanding citizens So I get nervous around them. I don't know how to take them

people in jail and people in the hood and you know, them type of killers, they, they or them type of people, they move a certain way and you can see it on them. So you know how to react, you know how to, you know how to maneuver around, maneuver comfortably. I don't know how to maneuver in this society. I'm learning.

What are some of the consequences from living this violent, you know, criminal filled life that you're dealing with now? Being out, you know, you've been out a few months now. What's the aftermath? There's always fear of revenge to a degree. Not that I'm scared, but there's, I've done some stuff to some people in prison that are very close to where I'm living now. I've embarrassed some people.

Um, people don't take light to a white guy getting out on them, whether it's with your fist or whether it's with weapons, you know what I mean? And there's people in my direct area or close to my direct area. So that's part of it. I haven't anything, haven't necessarily had anything directly come to me from that area. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure. You can't always see where stuff comes that and just, um,

trying to acclimate, man. Because like I said, when you live at certain extremes, you're always thinking to a damn extremes to some degree. Something minor might happen. Something falls and you're just thinking, oh, something fell. I'm thinking someone just broke in with a fucking gun ready to put bags over our heads. You know what I mean? We're driving in the car. Maybe you're looking at the scenery. That's why I can't get nowhere because I don't pay attention to that. I'm making sure the people in front of us don't stop their car, get out and shoot the car up. You know what I mean? I'm getting better at this.

But that's all the effects of the lifestyle I've lived. And then you hear the cops and you're thinking they're coming back for something that might be forever ago. You don't know. So you're always paranoid to a degree.

And that's what I'm struggling with. That's what I struggle with, man. It's one of my biggest challenges now to overcome. What about working relationships? Have there been any consequences from your actions in the past that have affected those things in your life now that you're dealing with and working through?

Uh, you're saying like in, in a job, like is that as far as finding a job and also, you know, dating, you know, some people might search your name or look you up or, you know, be intimidated by that. So now you see, I got the Joseph Phelan shirt, right? So I used to walk on my head down, man.

because I was so like I thought everybody just knew you're a felon it looked like tats and da da da I'm walking the middle of the street I don't want them thinking anything menacingly of me or thinking I have any type of nefarious intentions you know what I mean so now I took it as like man fuck it bro I'm a felon I'm

I'm a felon bro. I'm a felon. All right, but let me show you that felons can be positive members of society So i'm opening on my front listen this that and that but i'm a hard worker i'm caring I I help people when i'm able to help people and I have a lot to offer and I still can get job Recommendations from like any of my previous bosses because i'm usually the hardest working person there You know what? I mean? I want to change the narrative. I want to change the stigma behind felons like

That's me. But yes, you still deal with that because certain people just don't want to hire felons. Why take a chance with somebody with a felony when you can just hire somebody that doesn't? You know what I mean? But yeah, so...

Uh, yeah. Yeah. What's her relationship with your family now? It's good. They, I think they're proud of me, man. Like, cause it took me a while to get here. Like, um, they've always been supportive. They've always been loving, always been caring. But now I hope that I, and I believe that I put some belief in them cause I don't, I don't hold it against them that, uh, they would probably have thought that I would have been on my way back to jail coming out. Cause, cause of how I was coming out every other time.

But now I think I changed them. I think they're like, yo, now I see it. Like, this is what my homie Vaughn used to tell me in jail. Cause we'd have our visits and we talk about doing our podcast and reaching people and what we wanted to do. And he's like, bro, I believe you got it. And I didn't even believe myself then. And he's like, you know, some people they're not, cause, cause look what, look where you were at before. Like, and I get that. Like there was jokes like, oh,

Well, he'll be back. We'll just leave money on the phone because he'll, but I get it because it's not, they don't take it lightly, you know, trust me, but you got to make light of hard situation. But now it's like, I think they see the like, all right, like this, this is the one that I knew was in there. This is, this is him. He can do this. So I think my relationship got better because they all believe me. They're all proud of me. They're all willing to help me in whatever way possible.

I'm needed now. I'm learning to ask for help a little bit more, which is very hard to do I've never done that but i've always failed so I have to try something different and this is uncomfortable But that's what builds up resiliency You have to be uncomfortable And now it's getting comfortable You know what? I mean? And now i'm learning to do things on my own instead of trying to get other people to do it I ask for help in the beginning and bomb so that has strengthened our relationships

Mine and my family's I believe what's your plan to stay on track? Like what's your plan to make sure someone looks at you? Uh the wrong way you don't react to that in a negative way because it's deeper than me I feel like and I was hesitant to even come out here and try to do my podcast and speak out because it puts you on front street any Bullshit you have from your past is going to come out and I said, you know what? I feel like i'm

I feel like I'm doing injustice to the people I believe I can help. So if I go and I let my pride get in the way, I could be stealing what I look at as the life of children because I honestly believe I can save a whole bunch of lives and change a whole bunch of mindsets in youth because I know where my thinking started. And I'm that kid. I wish I had someone like me that knows what I know that could have talked to me then and do this. So if I react in a situation like that, I'm

I'm taking that from that kid, that kid that maybe was like me and I might be their survival story. I might be the one that they look at like, damn, he made it. I can make it. He been through what I've been through. And I tell people this as well. They're going through, I just want to give up. I just want to give up. No, don't do that because there's another girl. There's another boy like you, that's a kid or another wife that that's being abused that, that, that doesn't think they can make it. And you're their survival story. I got to be that survival story. I got to be that success story.

I got to show my passion where it developed and instilled in these kids to give them that passion as a youth to dedicate themselves to something, their energy, their hurt, their pain. If not, then I'm, I'm, I'm who, what am I? I just wasted a lot of time in prison to go back for somebody staring at me. Guess what? Somebody else is going to stare at you in prison too. Somebody else is going to do this. Somebody else is going to do that. It's not going to be, you have to pick your battles.

You have to we always say upstate no pics. No pics. Fuck that bro. That's stupid You gotta have pics you will never leave jail. You will give up your life. So now I got pics You can look at me. I'm gonna look away. I'm gonna try to all right, and then you know, whatever whatever I need to do That's fine. You could be the bigger man Now if they want to see me in the ring or something you can do that We can do it with contracts and all that whatever we can do that legally if you want to do that If it's to that degree step in the ring we could do but if it's not, you know I'm cool, man. It's not enough

For me to give up what I want to do. There's a greater purpose People told me for years. You got to work on yourself first before you help other people. Well Helping other people is me working on myself. They were right. I had more work to do but I I need this this this greater purpose And that's enough motivation to not do some dumb shit, man

That's what stopped me from doing the little stuff when I first got out to make a couple thousand dollars. Like a couple thousand dollars right now would be everything. You know what I mean? But I thought it's like, how am I going to get on here and podcast and try to speak positivity? Like I'm doing stuff right.

And do that that'd be hypocritical i'm a genuine and sincere person I say what I mean, you know what I mean, and and I preach what I feel I don't hide I am who I am So I can't be that person that's going to be up here saying yo do this and do that and don't go this route And i'm sitting there in the background doing it because at the end of the day I have to look at myself in the mirror and I know what i've done and what I haven't done people around me don't So I need to be able to stare at myself in the mirror and know that what message i'm bringing is

is authentic to who I'm being, you know? What's some life advice you wish you could tell your teenage self? Like if you could stand next to him before you ever got into trouble, what would that advice be now that you have all these years behind you? Man, it's so hard because it's such a delicate situation. Don't give up, man.

Don't give up. You can become great at something. Even if you don't know what that something is, whatever you dedicate yourself to. And I talk to say this to my nieces and nephews in there. I talk too much and did it, but I don't care because one of them seeds might, Oh, you like boxing? Yo, keep, keep to that. I'm trying to instill that drive in them.

I just wish somebody could have done that to me. Give me something to be passionate about. My thing is fitness, right? So let's take the non-athletic kids in school that are scared to go to gym, that are getting bullied because they don't fit in. Let's teach them the basics of fitness and give them something to be good at. They don't want to do it because they don't think they can do it. So show them that they can do it and then start showing that they can get good at it. And then they're going to become more comfortable in social settings because now they got something to be proud of.

This is such a simplistic answer to a complicated problem because it could not completely obliterate like bullying and all that, which like that was the main thing I dealt with. But it will help because think about when I was in cloud, I was out of shape. I couldn't, oh, Jim's stupid. No, I just didn't. I wasn't good at it. Not the athletic ones that it comes naturally to. Let's get the kids that aren't good at these things. Let's teach them the basics. Act.

program or something separate from the athletes, bro. Now you're good at that. Now you can, now you got confidence. You're something you can instill passion. You're something you can dedicate yourself to. Take your mind, because you're going to find a source of acceptance one way or another, whether it's, whether it's pro-social or anti-social. You want the positive, obviously. You don't want the negative mindset. So that comes with giving them somewhere to direct that pain and turn it into passion. Direct that towards that. Whatever it is, doesn't have to be that. It could be anything. It could be music,

whatever music sports whatever books

chess club i don't care something man something tic-tac-toe if there's a league for that there's got a league for everything man one of these new things i don't know but and they got technology to become brilliant at anything it's everything just show them that they can do it i did chess club in middle school you look like you did chess club oh it was only a couple days i was like this is not for me did you are you good you look good no no i'm not good i said i'll get made up my dad's good yeah i play a little bit i played a little bit in prison just to pass the time i'd

Much rather sit down for a game of Monopoly. Yeah, I was P-Knuckle. Oh, yeah. I love spades. But I got snuck in county on P-Knuckle. Yeah. Because I, yeah. I never got into P-Knuckle. I didn't like it. Love it. Spades, man. You're playing spades. And the feds you did? Yeah, dude. Come on, man. I used to walk through the pitch. And dice. Come on. Four, five, six. Yeah, there we go. Were you allowed to have dice? You had to sneak them. You had to sneak them. But people would take them from the Monopoly boards and stuff. You wouldn't get in trouble if you had them. Yeah, that's how we did Monopoly. Did you ever see dudes make them out of toilet paper rolls?

Maybe, but we had real dice. Yeah, you didn't need to. That was a county thing. Yeah, it was pretty interesting. But, Justin, thanks so much for coming on the show today, man. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, you did great, man. This is your first interview? Yeah, first time being interviewed. Well, technically, in my pocket, I got a few, but. Yeah.

Well, you're first on being interviewed yourself, man. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it, man. Yeah. Congratulations on getting out, man, starting your podcast. And, you know, like we said, if you're ever in this area and want to use our other studio, feel free. Awesome. Go on some interviews. You can interview me one day. Yes. That would be awesome. Yeah. You got to come to my podcast. Absolutely, man. Just a fella, man. But I'm more than that. I'm more than that, man. Love it, man. Yeah. And you already got merch, man. It took me a year to get merch. And you're already out here four months in with merch. That's awesome, man. I'm proud of you, man. You know, keep doing your thing and, you know, just...

Just stay on the path, you know, that's so important. - That's all I can do, man. Thank you for having me. Joseph Feldman, I need you to subscribe, man. Subscribe to my channel for me, man. - Dude, I don't really use YouTube like that. - No? - No, I don't really, like I've never really been like that. Like that's why I was so intimidated to start YouTube. I started on TikTok and stuff.

I don't know anything about YouTube. The only time I would use YouTube growing up is when like my friend would show me something or like I needed to figure out how to do something, how to do this, how to assemble this. That's what I'm learning. Yeah. Now I. Did you watch YouTube? Yo, do you know how to do this? Yo, just go on YouTube. I'll watch like motivational videos back in the day and stuff or like some music videos, but I never used it the way my viewers who watch my content use it.

you know? So that, that's what it is. And I just don't have the time to sit there and watch stuff, but I'll, I'm getting better at subscribing to people and everything. I'm studying all day. I'm watching video on how to, I'm studying. Like I read. It takes time, man. I learn every day. I learn, you learn as you go, you know, what we were doing in the beginning is not what I'm doing now. You just learn, you grow and you get,

a little bit better each time. You know, you look at when I first started editing my own videos, it's a night and day difference to what it is now. And it took a while to get there. I don't edit it right now. So it's just like, there's like two minutes of that. But I always tell the people that are first started that were like, we talked to give advice to, I was like, you're in a better spot than I was. Cause I didn't have anyone showing me this, you know, I had to learn it all on my own. And then, you know, you ask people and you make it better and trial by error. And,

And you get there. But you have that business mindset, man. That's everything. I hope so. You're going to get there, man. You just stay on the right track, you know, listen to your mom and stay there until you're ready to roll. You know, I lived at my parents for a few years, you know, until I was on my feet and it's part of the grind and you'll, you'll appreciate it when it's all said and done. Living with my mother.

I give you credit to me man that's more respectful than saying you stabbed someone in prison or when you talk to someone you know yeah it goes a long way but I appreciate you man you know stay in touch and safe travels back thank you man appreciate you awesome live loyal