Joining A GANG at 13 Years Old | Bill Staxx
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We are back with another episode of Locked In with the NBIC. On this week's episode, I interview Bill Stacks, who at 13 years old joins a gang in Connecticut and between the ages of 13 and 33 is arrested a total of 26 times. Thank you guys for tuning into the show. Make sure you guys like, comment, subscribe, and

and share. And if you're listening to this on our audio streaming platforms, leave us a review, sit back, relax, and enjoy locked in with Ian Beck.

Bill Stacks, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it. I got to ask, is Stacks your actual last name? No. It's not. What is your actual last name? Pasquarelli. Pasquarelli. Oh, that's Italian? Yeah. That's awesome. You look like the very Italian part right now with the suit and all in black and everything. Yeah, some people think I'm involved with the mob and all that, but I'm not. No.

Not at all. Gotcha. So let's start at the beginning of your story. Where are you from? What's your childhood like growing up? So I'm from Bristol, Connecticut. My childhood was okay. I grew up with my mom. I had a stepfather. My real father left before I was born. I got an older brother, younger sister. Growing up, it was all right, man. I was getting in trouble at a young age. I didn't really have a lot of guidance. And I

i gravitated towards the wrong people very young i got my first tattoo when i was like 13 years old 13 years old wow yeah i was going from the pro there was a a pretty notorious projects

right close to where I live. So I would run over to there and hang out with kids and they would send me to go buy drugs and alcohol. And this was back in the day when your mom would send you to the store with a note to go get cigarettes and things. And you'd be like 10 years old and they wouldn't care. They would sell it to you. So what year is this just to put it into perspective? 93. 93. And are you guys growing up like poor, middle class, upper class? What's the dynamic?

Lower middle class. And are you close with your mom at that point in time? Yeah. We're on food stamps and things like that. We have to go to a certain place, like a church, to get cereal. We live in a government-assisted housing place.

But my mother always worked. She worked for UConn growing up, so she always provided everything I could possibly want, but I didn't want that stable home environment. I wanted to run in the streets with older kids, and I wanted to be involved with just mischievous things. Were you close with your siblings, too? Not really, no. My brother was more like a skateboarder. He would be out doing his things with his friends, and my sister was younger, so she would be off playing with her friends. So I wanted to be around them.

kids who were older than me. It was always influenced by older people. You know, drinking young, 10 years old, I started drinking. Yeah. What's it like to drink at 10 years old? I wasn't, I don't think I had a sip of alcohol till I was like 16 or 17, honestly. Like my father would be my, I call him my father, my stepfather. I grew up with him. He was very abusive.

He would be watching a game and he would get up and go to the bathroom and I'd take sips off his beer, he'd come back and I'd be in back of his chair waiting for him to go to the bathroom again. And when I felt the effects of alcohol, I liked it. And I was drinking every chance I could get. And I would be in trouble. I would drink at school. I'd get in trouble. My mother would be called. And this has happened around seventh grade, you know.

And the first major time I got in trouble, I threw a match in a dumpster. I was with a bunch of kids and, you know, you want to look cool in front of people. So I threw a match in a dumpster, caught on big fire. And I'm telling all these kids that I did it. They told on me and I ended up getting in trouble for it. But they tell me you're grounded for the summer. It really didn't matter to me. You know, I would sneak out when my mom would go to sleep.

And she would always tell me, there'd be one day you're going to do something, I'm not going to be able to help you. And that day did come. So around 13, I started getting involved with gangs. And a lot of my friends were involved with the 20 Love Gang in Connecticut. It was pretty big at one point.

There's the Los Salidos, 20 Love, Pump Nation, Latin Kings. And they were the majority of the gangs in Bristol at the time. This is around 94, 95. So I ended up joining 20 Love. What does that mean to join the gang? So first you're hanging around with them and they want to see what you're about and what you're going to do. If you're willing to do things to further...

your advancements in the organization. So you hang out with them at first and then they see if you're down for the cause. And then they put you through the test and see if you're willing to do certain things. What was your first test to join this gang? So there was these guys walking down the street. They were big, muscly guys. And I'm a younger kid. I'm young and small. I'm a white kid. I'm hanging out with these mixed race. It was a mixed race gang.

It was majority black when the gang started, but it started taking on mixed races. And these kids would have guns, and we're walking down the street, and they tell me I have to walk up to one of these guys and punch him. And I'm scared. Like, I'm like, if this guy grabs me, what's going to happen? He's going to beat the crap out of me. And I don't know if they're going to back me up or what, but...

So I just ran up to him and hit him. The guy didn't do anything to you guys? No, two guys were walking down the street, ran up to him and hit him. And you're 13 years old. 13 years old. And what do you think? That was the cool thing? You wanted to be a part of this game? I wanted to show them that I'm willing to do this. But what was the mindset behind that? Why? What do you think it was in your head that you wanted to be a part of this gang that bad that you would do something like that? I just wanted to be accepted.

And do you think that came from like your parents not accepting you? Maybe like your dad leaving? Do you think there was like a root on that level? Yeah, I think I was looking for people to be like, he's one of us. Like, it's okay. Like, he's good. He's with us. I wanted that. I was looking for that for a long time. Were you bullied in like middle school or high school? Yeah, terribly. Like all the time, man. So this was like something to get away from like that bullying?

I mean, I know what it was like to get... And it was, when I was getting bullied, it was the opposite gang members. It was people that were in Pump Nation and Latin King. So once this gang came around, the 20 Love, I was like, these are the people I gravitate towards because they're the ones that are opposed to the people who've been bullying me all this time. Yeah. So that's who I gravitated towards. So you do that, you get initiated. So that happens. We go into this building. Now, this...

apartment building that we were hanging at it was one of the older members apartment he ends up getting arrested they take him away so we take over this apartment so now we're in the apartment and they say all right you did that now we got to go into the front room it's empty it's basically an empty apartment it's got a couch in there and a mattress on the floor it's just like crack house

And we have pit bull dogs in there where we have dogs that are going to have puppies. We're going to sell them. We got all these big dreams and plans. Right. So we go into the front room and there's a bunch of kids in there. I mean, they're they're different ages from mid 20s all the way down to 14. And this is the initiation is I got to go in this room and I got to fight three people. We I have to stand my own against these people.

Now I'm scared again. Now I know what's going on with them. It's always about fighting. It's to see if you can handle your own. So they make you fight each other. You have to, like, they put a timer and they go, go. And you guys are just fighting. So it's a bunch of people on one person and you're fighting these people and this guy comes and you're fighting. And if you fall, they wait for you to get back up. It's to, like, build toughness in you, I guess.

And once that was over, then I felt like I was accepted. Then they embraced me. There was a liquor truck that was delivering alcohol to a store and we ended up stealing bottles of alcohol from the truck, running off and getting drunk inside the apartment.

I remember the next morning we would wear beads to show people who we were with. So that's like the bandana button bead for. We would have bandanas, but the beads were the major thing back then. A lot of Latin Kings and Los Salidos and 20 Love. Our colors were green and black.

And, um, pump nation was red, green, and black. So we had kind of a problem with them. It was over the color situation. Now, are you still in high school at this time or do you drop out? How does that go down? I'm in middle school and I'm on my way into high school. And, um, so when I joined them in middle school, we're doing a bunch of crazy things. I mean,

Every day is crazy. I'm going to school and I think they're just pushing me through school. I'm not even really doing work. I'm just doing enough to get by, but they're passing me with, you know, mediocre grades. And I get to high school and I get involved with guns and, you know, buying guns from people. The first gun I bought, I was in middle school, bought it off a kid named Steve and

For 25 bucks, I told my mother I was going to the movies. I gave him the money. For 25 bucks? 25 bucks for a 25 semi-automatic. That's crazy. Yeah, he stole it when he was babysitting and he sells me the gun. So now I'm walking around with it like I'm a gangster. You thought you were cool having the gun, this and that. Me and my cousin would sneak out at night and run around the town with the gun.

One night the cops shined a light on us and we ended up throwing it in the river and that was the end of that one.

Did you go and get another gun after or that was like the one gun? There was plenty. Yeah. Like throughout the years, there was plenty of committing robberies and home invasions and it just culminated and the crimes escalated pretty fast. It was that easy for a teenager to get a gun though? Very easy. Right in school, I see the kid Steve in school. I say, hey Steve, what's up? Hey, I stole a gun from the person I was babysitting last night. I said, I want to buy it. I got 25 bucks. I'll meet you after school.

Boom, it was that easy. Do you think that was because of like the neighborhood you guys were growing up in or do you think it was everywhere in Connecticut at that time? Anywhere. You could get a gun anywhere. They were available. Like there was times when I bought them off people in school. They got their parents' gun and they sold it to me.

That's just insane. I mean, like the high school, I went to Danbury High School and you weren't just like easily accessibly getting a gun. Like if you ask someone, someone's going to go and report that you're asking around. So they one kid sold me his gun, his parents gun. And they call me. His parents call me, say, we want the gun. And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about.

And they tell me, this kid's dead. Now he overdosed. They tell me, we want the gun. We're going to call the police and say that you, he sold you the gun. I go, I don't know what you're talking about. I play stupid. And I ended up selling it off. But it was like, damn, this dude told on me.

That was like your first experience of someone actually like snitching it in that room. Yeah, telling on me like, come on, man, you told that. But the cops didn't get involved or anything. It was just his mom asking for the gun back. But still, it was like. Does your mom know you're a part of this gang? I think so. So there wasn't like a conversation of her sitting you down saying, hey, you need to stop doing what you're doing. Well, yeah, it got to that point. So I was off running the streets a lot.

And she told me, you're going to get into some stuff that I'm not going to be able to get you out of. So we're stealing cars a lot. Like I'd wake up in the morning. My goal is to steal a car, go somewhere else, steal another car. We have routines that we would do. We'd wake up. I had a church parking lot where I would park the cars.

We would steal them and leave them in this church parking lot. It was a really good spot. And at church parking lots, we would steal a lot of cars from there. I feel terrible about it now, but...

That was a really easy place to get cars. Yeah. How do you steal a car as a teenager? And then what do you do with it after? So we would neck them. We would neck the cars with a screwdriver. You crack out the tilt steering, pop out a gear, and you could start an Oldsmobile. There's charities, all kinds of cars can start like that, certain years. And we would either joyride them, smash them up, or we would get high-end cars and sell them to a chop shop. And-

We started doing this a lot and we would go out and eat at restaurants and dine and dash. Back then you can pay for your gas after. You could pump first and then pay later.

So we would pump the gas, act like we're looking for the takeoff. And no one's batting an eye that a 13-year-old's bringing a car to the chop shop? I mean, these people that we're dealing with are not people that are savory. Yeah, they're pretty scummy people. So this is a good one, man. There's a guy named Moe. I'm not going to say his whole name, but you know who you are. He's about 26 years old at the time. 14. 14.

We steal a car, and I think it was like an Oldsmobile or something. We get into a high-speed chase, and I'm driving, right? And he tells me to pull over, let him drive. So I pull over the car. He gets in, and I'm sitting in the passenger seat. I don't have my seatbelt on. The music is playing. He's driving. And all of a sudden, I feel the car go like that, and I look up, and we're sliding right into the car in front of us.

I'm like, whoa, what are you doing, man? And he cuts the wheel to the left and he slammed on the brakes and we're sliding and it kicks to the left lane and it's a GTI Golf. Bam, we just smash head on into him. Now this is out in Danielson over near Rockville and I wake up and I have blood all over me. My hands cut. I look over and this guy's knocked out. I'm trying to shake him and wake him up.

The car is still going tick, tick, tick, and there's smoke everywhere. I grab the screwdriver, and he's getting up. He has like a cartoon-sized knot on his forehead. He gets out of the car. We start getting out of the car, and there's snow on the ground, and people are starting to get out of their car, and it's like an old country road. And they're pulled over, and they're getting out of their cars. I jump out of the car, and I have blood all over me, all over my pants. And it's me and a black dude out in the country town.

Everyone's looking like, what are you doing? I'm like, come on, man. We just start running on the street. And we dart off into a field and it's snow and like, you know, bushes around the field and we're running through the field and we get to a river. We trudge through the river and it's cold. Get to the other side and I'm like, I'm going to knock on this door and try to see if we use the phone. So we get to the door and my friend sees car keys in the

The window. And he's like, I'm going to smash the window and we'll take the car and get out of here. I'm like, no, man, don't do that. It's just going to make things worse. Like, I'm trying to just get out of here easy. Like, no bullshit. And no one's at this house. We're knocking, knocking. No one's there. So we go to the next door and there's a guy working on his truck. And he's just sitting there working, an old guy. So we walk up and I go, excuse me, sir. And he turns around and he's looking at me like, oh, because I got blood on me.

And he, I go, can I use your phone? I got bit by a dog. I got blood all over my face. It's obviously I got in a car accident. And the old man's just looking at me like, and I'm like, why is he looking at me like that? And I turn around, there's a cop with a gun right to my head. Oh, wow. He's like, don't move. And I'm just like, and I'm, so I'm cocky at this point, right? Yeah.

I'm like, this is like my badge of honor. I'm going to prison now. This is the first time you're going to get arrested. First time of getting like processed through a real jail. And I'm only 14. So I'm telling my Mo, I'm telling him, I'll take all the charges. Don't worry. Where's your friend? He ran off on the cops. No, he's with me. So the cops got both of you guys. Oh, there's multiple cops. Okay. Yeah. Wow. And he's like,

He's just like, yeah, nodding, yeah, yeah. So I go into court. I'm all cocky. And this is juvenile court. Yeah. This is Rockville juvenile, but they're arraigning me in a, you know, they arraign you in a regular court, and they're like, oh, it's a juvenile. They get everything in order. So I get to the court, and the lady comes in the door, and I go, she said something to me, and I go, you could suck my, and she was like, what? She goes, I'm the bail commissioner. What?

And then she walks away. And the people that are in the holding cell are like, you fucked up. And they revoked the bond, no bond. What's your mom saying to you? Like when you get arrested? So they would not let me talk to her, nothing. They give me a phone call just to call and say, I just told her I'm in trouble. She's screaming. And that was it. I got to go. And I think she drove all the way out to the court.

And she was trying to get me out and stuff. And when I said that to the bail commissioner, they were like, no, he's going to jail. So they sent me to Hartford Correctional Center. 13, 14 years old. 14 years old. They put me in dorm four with all the grownups. And how long are you in there for? 30 days. It was a 30 day sentence? First time. So it wasn't a sentence. I was just pending till the case goes to court. So she's like, I'm going to teach him a lesson.

And I don't know why they didn't put me in the youth part. At first they, they put me in dorm four and it's cages in a dorm with grownups. And they're like, why are you here? People, everyone's like, why are you here? And, and no one messed with me then. Are you flexing your, like your gang status and stuff? Not at that point. I'm kind of scared. I'm like,

I'm like, no, I'm not going to. So you're like, you got a big ego, but you don't at the same time. So you're trying to figure it out. You're out of your comfort zone. Yeah. So what's it like to be 14 years old and like this, the state holding detention center? How are you navigating it? I'm scared. Like I'm trying to use the phone and these dudes aren't letting me use the phone. Are they picking on you? Not really. No. The older inmates are looking out for me because I was the youngest one in the whole, the whole dorm.

I wasn't supposed to be in the storm. Yeah. So eventually, I think about a week goes by, and they transfer me to the youth block, and they go urine for a fucking wake-up call. So I walk in, and it's pretty crazy in there. They're bullying kids. They're, you know, jumping them, beating them up in the shower, making them do push-ups, making them, like, you know, dance and shit, stupid shit that kids do to each other. Really, uh...

Really bad things, man. They will rub nair on your eyebrows and things like that. And it was fighting in there, in the youth block, just fighting. Then I go back to court, and my mom's in court. And the court says, if we send him, if we let him go with you, can you take him up to New Hampshire to live with his grandma? And maybe all this gang stuff can die down. That's what the court's telling your mom? Yeah.

Did she propose that at all? She agrees. She agrees. I'll take him there and he'll be away from this. You guys never see him again. Your mom's probably sick over this because she had a lot of love for you and you're giving her this such a hard time. I'm telling you, it got way worse, man. Yeah. Way worse. So do you go to New Hampshire at that point? Yeah, I go to New Hampshire. And that doesn't help? Doesn't help. So how does it progress? Like, how do you go from like this kid that just gets arrested to a little like scared straight type thing that doesn't work and now...

You're getting arrested multiple times. I go to New Hampshire. I'm there for about a month. She's like, I can't deal with them. Send them back. Your grandma said that. Yeah. You were that bad. I was bad. I was stealing cigarettes at the gas. They're making her look bad, you know, doing things like shouldn't have been doing. So I go back. First thing I do. Back to the gang. Right to that apartment. Yeah. But they're all gone. I'm at the apartment. They're all gone. And it kind of made me feel like, what the hell?

But I end up linking back up with them. And so we're out doing some pretty major crimes together. And I'll send you some pictures. You have pictures of all of this? Yeah. Technines and drugs and craziness. So what are you guys doing? Like what's an average day in this gang?

We'd be in a week up in the apartment. There'd be puppies in there, pit bulls. People would be there to buy them. We'd be selling drugs in the apartment.

drinking we it's just like one big party are you guys making money like do you get paid for being in this it's not we had dues to pay you would have to pay a weekly due every every week yeah but you're 14 15 years old didn't matter you had to find a way to get it this is this is so crazy be a certain amount of money you have to pay every week and if you don't have the money now if you made a infraction in the gang you would have to get disciplined

And the way they discipline you is they make you put your hands against the wall and they get two people in back of you and they punch you in your ribs and your back and they count down a clock. And if you put your hands down, the clock starts over. So if you do something wrong, then like that's what happens to you. Did you ever have to get disciplined? Yeah. What did you do to get disciplined? So I got disciplined for unnecessary beef.

Oh, who did you start beef with? Someone else in the gang or in a rival gang? It was a rival gang. So we had a meeting. We're at this apartment and the gang leader is telling us, if you guys see anybody that's in Palm Nation, it's a green light. Set it off on them. That's it. It's a green light. So to me, that means if I see them in the street, I got to react and do something.

So one day I'm driving with my friend and I see one of them. He's in a pizza restaurant eating with his baby's mother. And he's with his kid. And I run in there and I punch him in his face. In the pizza place in front of his kid. His baby's mother tried to protect him. It was crazy. His baby's mother was trying to fight me in the pizza place.

Don't do this in here. And he wasn't trying to do nothing. And they found out about it. So they said that you were causing unnecessary beef. And I'm like, well, what about the meeting you had telling me green light on all these dudes?

And all that went out the window. So you're really just doing whatever to fit in, be cool, and be a part of something. Yeah. It's like a family in that sense. Yeah. What's like the age group of this gang? Is it like, are you the youngest? And how old does it get? Well, so I'm going on through the years. By this time, I'm probably 17. It's all the way from 13 to...

38. There's 38 year olds. Yeah. And they're grownups. They're young kids selling drugs. Beating up like a teenager who's in this. That's crazy, man. That's, this is like a whole different lifestyle and stuff. It was bad. So what are some of the other times you get arrested while you're in this gang? So the major time I got arrested. So before, so what happened was I had a really good friend. He was the vice president of this gang. He thought I was sleeping with his girlfriend.

So these dudes are like, we're going to lure them to the park and we're going to, we're going to, I don't know if they tried to, wanted to kill me. I don't know what their plan was. These are my own gang members. These are the people in the gang I was in. So they, they call me one day and by this time I'm 17 years old. I'm the sergeant of arms. I have all the guns and they call me and they tell me we're going to meet these girls in Page Park in Bristol. So I get in the car and

We drive to the park. I get out, and I'm thinking, we're meeting some girls up in this trail. They're like, yo, the girls are over here. I was totally oblivious. I had no clue. And I'm like, oh, yeah, where? Dude turns around and just hits me. And I just, I was shocked. I didn't even know what was going on. So I put my hands up.

and I start fighting them. But they rushed me, man. There was like seven of them. There was a lot of dudes and they beat the shit out of me really bad. Stomping my head, kicking my body for a long time. I don't even, I couldn't even tell you how long it was. It was a dark trail with woods. So they're kicking me, stomping me. And one dude's holding my leg up while the other dude's jumping on it, trying to break my leg.

At the end of it, they pull my shoe off and throw it in my face, spin on me, and then they walk away. And I pick myself up, and I just walk home. I knock on my brother's door on the way to my house, and his baby's mother answered the door like, oh, my God. I was all bloody and purple. They didn't even recognize me. So I just went home, and I was like, I'm going to kill them all. I'm going to kill all these dudes. So the next day...

I get a phone call, and it's the girl that they said I was sleeping with. And I wasn't. It was all a lie. And the person who brung me into the gang, like, we were really cool. Like, I liked him. He was like, they call it your big homie. It's the person who, like, brings you in. And shout out to you, man. I don't want to say his name because, you know, he might not be involved with things. I don't even know. He could be dead. But he...

she calls me like what happened why'd they do that I'm like I don't know what it was like get the hell out of here so she tries to come to my house and I'm aiming a gun at her out the window and um they they convinced me to go and I get in the car and they bring me to the house where all these dudes are and I'm scared they're gonna like finish me off I didn't know what what was going on and uh

So I walk up and they're having a meeting and it's a lot of them. Like I know if they turn on me now, I'm done. And are you armed? Do you have a gun on you? Yeah. And I walk up and I'll call him T. T says, yo, it's messed up what they did. He's like, I want to make it right. I'm going to have you pick who is going to bounce who. And we're going to try to take care of all this. So let's just take care of this.

Pick who you want to discipline you for doing what they did to you. And are you like bleeding, covered in blood? I'm just swelled up. You're just swelled up. Like I'm already cleaned up, but I'm like really beat up bad. I'm like in the grocery store, like I'm a UFC fighter. Don't worry. I'm a professional. You got like the pair of the ribeye on your face, icing it down. It was bad. So what happens? What goes down? So they end up bouncing each other.

And at the end of it, they're like, we're good, right? And I'm like, no. Like, I just don't feel like we're not good anymore, man. I don't trust you guys no more. And they let me walk away. And I walked away. But before this, I didn't tell you this part. Before this...

I'm committing an armed home invasion. With the same gang? No, this is with someone that wasn't in this gang. On your own, yeah. This is, I was with somebody who was in the Los Alitos at the time. Now, the Los Alitos was a cousin of 20 Love. So we were like, you know, they're like sister clubs. Like they help each other out and they call each other cousins.

So this kid calls me over. Yo, I know where this dude's got money and he's got weed. We can go get it. So I'm like, all right. So I bring a 10 gauge sawed off shotgun to his house and I bring shells with me. So I tell him, he's like, let me carry the gun. And I'm like, all right. So I give him the gun and I have camouflage on and, uh,

He's like, we're just going to go over there and I'm going to go in there and grab the weed and leave. He said the kid owed him money or weed or something like that. So we go over and I'm in back of him and we walk up and he knocks on the door. The lady opens the door and she looks down, sees the gun poking out of his pocket and she screams like a high scream.

She's trying to close the door, and there's people in the house trying to close the door. So I'm like, my reaction, push the door. Try to get in there. So it's like a wrestle for the door. And eventually, they get the door shut, and it closes. And I can't open it or nothing. So I'm like, let's go. So they're screaming still, and it's Projects. So it's a front Project hallway. And we run out of the front.

And there's cop cars. And the cops are like, don't move. So I'm like, I run. And I just run around the building. And I'm right with this guy. And we're running. And...

I never told this part, but I think I tried to take a moped as I'm running from the cops. I don't know why. I thought that would like get me away from them faster, but it wasn't working. And I threw it and I just kept running and the cops are right in back of me. Now, this kid that I was doing this with, he lives in the same project. We run around the building down into the back door and I'm like on my ass down the stairs and I get up.

And I run into his house and I'm stuffing shotgun shells in his couch. And he takes the gun, throws it behind the door. And I'm throwing the shells in and the door flies open. And it's the cops. Don't move. And I'm like this. And the shells are falling out of my hands. They charged me with hindering prosecution for that.

And, um, you got jail time for that. Yeah. I went to prison. This is my first time going to prison prison for, because you already had a record too. So, yeah. So I, I had,

The stolen cars. They said, you get in trouble within this certain amount of time. Yeah, like the accelerated rehabilitation and shit. Now, the one with my grandma, that was when I was young. I was 14. In between that, I got caught with a stolen car in Terryville, the town over from Bristol. How many times are you arrested? Let's put it that way as a teenager, because there's so many times. So how many times would you say? So as a teenager, maybe...

Five. And over the course of your entire life? 26. That's a lot of times. 26 times I've been arrested. I know it's a lot. And what was the longest prison sentence you got out of those 26 times?

Two years. Two years? Was that this scenario? So I had to serve two years, but on and off, all together, probably five years altogether. Five years altogether? Altogether. What did you do to commit the two-year sentence? Home invasion. That was the one we were just talking about? Yeah. How old were you when that happened? Because you said it was- 17 years old. You're 17. You got a two-year prison sentence at 17 years old. Yeah. What did your mom say to you? She's-

is beside herself at this point. So what happens is I get arrested. I go to court. The bond's $10,000 back then. It was a lot of money. Now it would be a million. I wouldn't even be able to get out probably. This is early 2000s. Since 2001. Or no, no, this is 97.

This is 1997. And you're done. No high school dropped out, whatever happened. I'm in high school when this happens. Okay. So that's probably right out of high school. I'm done. I can't go back. I have to serve this time. And then, so my mother gets me out on bond. I'm in, I'm in Hartford correctional center in the YO block for, I think six months. She gets me out. And now when I'm out on bond, I get beat up.

They beat me up. That was when that incident happened? Yeah, while I'm out on bond. But I'm still committing crimes.

You just don't learn. You just keep rocking it. Yeah. Like, well, I'm telling you, I committed another home invasion. What's your mentality? Like what's, what's driving you to do all of this? Is it still like the, the, the wanting to be wanted or do you just think you're on top of the world and this is what you're good at? When I was, no, I knew I wasn't good at it because I was always getting caught and always getting in trouble. And, uh,

I think I really, when I was younger, I really didn't care about life. I didn't care about living to the next day. I figured I could live all my energy and all my, I could have all my fun now. Who cares about later? I'm not going to be around later and enjoy it. I want to do it now. That's how I felt. And when these dudes kind of betrayed me, it was like I got no one else. So

And then I have to go to prison. Now I have to go to prison without this gang backing me up. Are you using the gang card in prison now? By that time, I am. So how does that work? With the stolen cars. When I'm in the stolen cars, I am. You go into prison, you got nothing, you're in a gang, they're feeding you. They're giving you soap. They're letting you use the phone. You're good. How does that work in a state prison, being a gang member at that age? You get into prison, what do you say? So they're going to ask you who you roll with.

And you have to tell them. If you say no one, they're going to say, well, you need to pick someone. Like, they make you pick, basically. They're going to ask you, who are you down with? And if you're with a gang, they're going to designate you to that gang. Because most of the gangs in there, they have designated tables, right?

Gangs sit at this table. They sit at that table. You know, it's ran like that. It's all separated. Gangs don't interact with each other. They do if they sell drugs together, but they're not like hanging out with each other. Now, what kind of charges do the people have that are around you in this prison? What's like the environment? So when I go to prison for the home invasion, they send me a little Cheshire.

Now, Little Cheshire is a bunch of kids with heinous crimes. Some of them killed their parents. One kid was in there for stabbing someone with a samurai sword. One kid killed a girl because she didn't like him or something. So you're with some bad people that are your age. Killed in school. I mean, these are Connecticut's prolific kids.

Yeah. Some of the craziest things you've ever heard. And there's still gang activity in these places. A lot. Now, what do you have to do on a day-to-day basis as a gang member in prison? Because there were separate times. I've been to prison as a gang member and I've been to prison as not a gang member. So during that two-year sentence as a gang member, what's that like? I wasn't in the gang. Oh, you were done. You weren't tied. When I did little month bids here and there, I was in a gang.

So you just, you picked and choose when you wanted to be in the gang and when you didn't? Basically, yeah. Wow. I mean, once I got jumped and terminated out of the gang, I couldn't say I was in that gang. Yeah, those are my boys. I couldn't even say that. Yeah, but back then, would Word have gotten back to them? Like now it's different. People could text their cell phones and shit. Oh, yeah. Word would have gotten back. Word would have gotten back. It's a prison gang, man. Yeah. Like they know it.

People are going in and out of prison. It's just a whole different world. And to be that young, and I didn't ride in a gang when I was in prison or anything like that. I don't know. It's fascinating to hear about that. So when I go to prison, when I go to prison and I'm in the gang, they're feeding me. They're giving me soups. They have a kitty. It's called a kitty. And if you're a gang member and you don't have anything, they're going to give you food. They're going to give you soap. They're going to let you use the phone. They're going to treat you nice.

But if you mess up in that gang, in prison, they're going to treat you the worst you've ever been treated. I've seen them take people, lay them on their bed, make them take their shoes off and take the shower shoes and like spank their feet. And grown men screaming, man. It's serious. Like, it's crazy. You see a grown man like this on the bunk and they're making him do it. You don't have a choice.

And they're just whacking his feet. Bam. Did anything like violent happen to you in prison at all throughout any of your times? So I walk in to Little Cheshire and I'm terrified. I'm not in a gang. I have no one to have my back or anything. I know what's in store for me. And I'm with a black guy and we're both new to this jail, this prison, MYI. I'm sure you've heard of it. I walk into the cell.

and uh these dudes go yo we're gonna kill the white boy in 6l and I'm like looking at my cellmate and I'm like they're not talking about him they're talking about you yeah I'm the white boy in 6l so I'm like man so I grab a they got sporks and you know the little spoon and they got a little pencil so I'm sharpening it but I'm like I'm gonna use whatever I got

And they're threatening me all night long what they're going to do to me when this door opens. And I'm like, whatever. It is what it is. Once I get out, I'm going to fight. So the door pops. Nothing happens. These dudes just go get their food. And I'm like shocked. Like, you guys were talking all this shit. Where is it? Like, let's get busy now. But it wasn't like that. So everyone gets their food. I get my tray. And I don't know where to sit. So I sit down.

Dude comes up to me and he's like, get up. And I'm like, nah, man. I tell him no. I'm like, I'm not getting up. No. And he just walks away all pissed off. Now I'm like, people are telling me, yo, you're going to get fucked up. You're not supposed to be at this table. This is New Haven table. That's Harford's table. I'm like, where's Bristol's table?

They don't have one. There is no none. Now, if I was in a gang, I'd be good. I'd have a table to sit at. And these are all people your ages about? Well, so they're my age, but they're like, you know, I don't know if they let steroids in the MYI or something, but these kids are not. They're like superhuman, man. So you don't leave the table. What happens next? They're telling me.

"You're gonna get fucked up. White boys shouldn't be acting like this." And the dude's telling me, "Well, nothing happens that time." The next time I come out, I sit down again, and he comes up and tells me to get up again, the same guy. And I tell him no, but I turn my back, and I just kept eating, and I wasn't thinking. And he hit me with his tray, and we start fighting, and the whole, everything breaks out, and it's just a big fight.

In MYI, you're locked in back of this door. And then there's another room and then another door and the CO is way in there. Hey, they don't care. You've been getting beat down in there. They don't care. They let it happen. They wait for the cops to come in and they break it up, take you out. Once you get in a fight, they bring you to A&B Cottage. And those are like cottages surrounded by barbed wire. So I spent a lot of time in there.

In and out. Once I left there, they sent me down to J cottage and I'm like, what's J cottage? I don't know what any of this is, man. They're like, you're going to the hood, man. It's the worst place in this whole jail. I'm like, what? I get to go there, right?

And this is where they put all the bad people. The people get out of SAG, go to the, and it's the dirtiest place there. It's all the worst people go there. So they put me there. Now, one day I get a letter, right?

And now I'm writing a bunch of girls from high school. You know how it is. You went to prison young. So I'm sure you had a lot of pen pals, right? I mean, it was cell phones. It wasn't like writing, but we were like Snapchatting each other and stuff like that. So I would be writing a bunch of chicks in high school and they would be writing me back and they sent me pictures. And so I'm showing my picture to somebody.

And this other guy snatches the picture and he runs in the cell. Now, little Cheshire is a 23 hour lockdown. So once he runs in the cell, I have to wait till I can see him again. Now, he's not just going to give me the picture back. So it turns into a big thing. And me and him are like fighting over this picture. I want my picture back. And so one day I'm in my cell. Now, I don't know all the politics of prison by this time yet.

And I'm sleeping with my face against the wall. And the door pops and I tell my cell, I'm not going out to wreck. I'm just going to sleep. And he leaves the cell and he left it open. So the dude runs in the cell and starts punching me in the back. And I jump up.

And I grabbed my state boot. They had these big black state boots. And I grabbed the state boot and I smacked him with it. And he fell, he fell down and he got up and ran to his cell. And the cops seen him fall and they've run in. What happened? But they couldn't see like the camera angle. So, um,

I end up getting into fights constantly over there and they get tired of it. And none of this is a wake-up call to you? No, I'm in prison. So I figure they can't do anything worse to me. There's no like programs, classes, nothing you could have done? So it's just a free-for-all, whatever. They're making you go to school in this place. If you didn't have your diploma. Yeah.

Well, yeah. I mean, nobody in there had their diploma. They're all kids. What are they like the staff? Like, are the staff like trying to help you guys or are they just looking at you guys all as lost causes? No, they're all mean, man. They were mean back then. They were mean. But you're also mean too. Like you're probably very disrespectful. I'm a little asshole. Like I'm, I'm rude to them. I'm swearing at them. I'm a, yeah. Like bad kids. They just lock you in a cell. Um, there's,

- Do you think if there was like someone there that could like help you, that it would have turned out different? - I think the 23 hour a day lockdown for kids that age is inhumane because a lot of the time I just wanted someone to talk to, someone that I can connect with. - And that fucked with you mentally. - Yeah.

They leave you in the cell by yourself, man. Are you reflecting at all about like your actions that got there? Are you thinking like, hey, maybe I shouldn't have been doing this? So you're still in that hard rock. Like when you get out, you're going to go and commit more crimes. Yeah. How do you make money in prison? Because I'm sure you didn't have any money. My mother would send me money. She always took care of you. Always. That was a good mother for you. She would send me 50 bucks a week, man. Which is a lot at that time to live off of. So I think eight months into my first sentence, into that one,

I get a TV. Now I was fighting so much. They're like, something's got to give. Like every time they let me out, I'm fighting. So they're like, we're going to give you a job in laundry. Maybe this will give you some structure. I'm like, all right. So I go there, I get my TV, like I get the TV and then I got to work.

It's like, I wanted to get the TV and just sit back and watch TV and finish my jail sentence. How does a TV work in prison? So like, I know the feds, they don't have TVs. We don't have TVs now. In state they do. And they cost like 300 bucks for a little TV. It's a, they have black and white, or you can get a color for more money. You have to wear your headphones with it. And they're clear. Back then when I got my TV, it was a bubble back with the black front.

This was by this time, it's about 98. And I get my TV and I'm working in the in the laundry. Now I had to go to the each cell and pull off the sheets and go with a cart with the CEO. And it would go to from cottage to cottage. It was pretty uneventful. And then they changed me to like the laundry room in the main building.

So I would have to bring the car all the way to the main building, and then I would have to put the name tags on the jumpsuits. They were like tan jumpsuits, and you press the name tags on. So one time we're in there, and this gang, I swear this place, they ran this jail, the prison, MYI. The gangs ran this jail. If they wanted something done, they would...

Pay the staff. They had them bringing in food. Like one time I heard you say, where'd they get all this McDonald's or something in prison?

The lady was bringing us Domino's pizza and like other inmates weren't eating that, but we were. So it was cool. Was there a lot of corrupt staff that you would see at all? Little Chester was bad. What kind of corruption do you see from these staff members? Them letting beat other kids up. So what would they just set it up? Like turn a blind eye? They would unlock doors. They would just pop a door and walk down the hall. Are they getting paid for that?

I don't know. I don't think the kids are paying them. I just think- They want to see some action. If a kid is a dick to the cop, they're like, oh, you want to be a dick? All right. And they're just telling them, oh, this kid's a rat. They did that to me.

So they take me and shout out to you. I tattooed this prison guard too. Once I got out, I tattooed him. Oh, you're a tattoo artist too. Yeah, I'm a tattoo artist too, yeah. That's funny. So I tattoo in prison too. I've never got one in prison, but I've given a lot of tattoos. So you did have like a little hustle in prison and you would make money doing that. Yeah, definitely. And how much money would you make tattooing in prison?

In commissary, it depends. I mean, to me back then, it was a lot of money. Like you're getting $60 worth of commissary for a tattoo. It's a lot of money and it's a lot of stuff. Like it's a lot physically. When I go to jail and I'm,

I do a couple of tattoos and I got more commissary than the guy who's getting money on his books. And I don't got money. It makes the cops look at you like this guy's got a TV on his desk and he's only been here two days. Like, how is that possible? Yeah. So you go to jail and you have your mom sending you commissary money. What's the breakdown of what you purchase? Like if you're getting 50 bucks a week, what's an unusual commissary trip look like for you?

The Mac soups every time because, you know, you trade soups. That's like the main hustle in there. Like ramen noodles and stuff? Yeah. A lot of, I used to buy coffee, a lot of candy.

You know, a lot of honey buns. MYI, man, it was all, the whole bag was candy. Whole bag, honey buns and candy and chips and things. Like kids, that's what they want. Are people stealing each other's commissary too? Yeah, they're beating up kids. Kids are beating up each other, distorting each other. I mean, kids are nasty in school, so I can't imagine kids in prison. It's gotta be 10 times worse. It was bad, man. They would put Nair in people's shampoo. They would pull like crazy evil pranks on each other. Wow.

And then, like, so I'm working in the laundry, and one day this kid, one of the gang members, tells me to watch the door. I'm like, all right. So I'm just watching the door, and the CO's walking down this long hallway. It's a long hallway. And this is in the main building. So there's another kid in there, and they don't like him. They're going to do something to him.

So I'm watching the door and they grab him and the machine that would press the name tags on, it would lock down and it would heat up. And they take this kid and they put his hand in it and they locked it on his hand. It's fucking crazy. He's screaming. And the CO is running back. I'm like, he's coming, he's coming, he's coming.

They unlock his hand right before he gets back and everyone's just like, I don't know. He got burned on the machine. That's wild. Wild things like that. So when was the last time you went to prison? Like that you were done with it? I haven't been in prison in 10 years. And so how old are you 10 years ago?

Uh, 40, uh, 33. So from 13 to 33, you were in and out of prison, no life, no stable job. And if I wasn't in prison, yeah, I've had stable jobs. What was like your first real job? So I get out of prison after this time.

I start working as a framing houses, a framer. I framed houses for 10 years. 10 years you framed houses? Yeah. And you were on the up and up at that point? No. No? I was catching DUIs. I was drinking. I was doing cocaine, a lot of that. Bill, you're lucky you didn't get like a five or 10 year sentence like straight. I know. You have a huge rap sheet. Yeah, it's pretty bad. That's crazy. Like it just...

it was it was never gonna stop until i stopped yeah and i got sober four and a half years ago and i i'm not looking back that's great i'm not in recovery i tell people i've recovered because i don't have that obsession of using drugs anymore

What kind of drugs did you use? I was on heroin, alcohol, cocaine. All during this whole time period? The whole time. And do you think it wouldn't have been like this if you grew up in a different town? Or do you think it was going to happen regardless because of your personality and your family and stuff? I think maybe the town might have had a big...

Something to do with it. Like what if you grew up in New Hampshire with your grandma? What about Aaron Hernandez? He grew up where I grew up. Yeah. Look what happened to him. I went the same direction as he went. I've tattooed. I tattooed Aaron. I tattooed Charlie boy. I did the star and the Charlie boy on his neck. I used to hang out with them a lot.

And I knew the things they were up to. I mean, he had everything. That's why people like his story because they're fascinated with how a guy has everything, gets to that level, and is still doing all this bullshit on the side to risk all that. Still willing to risk it to go back to the hood and be around these people. He's from Connecticut too. Yeah. That's crazy that you tattooed. It's the same high school as him. Really? Same high school as me. Are you guys the same age? No, he's about 10 years younger than me.

Wow. Maybe 15 years younger than me. So when you finally got done with being a part of that life, did you just leave everyone that was around you? And is that what it took to get to that next level? So once I got sober, man, I really had to take a long look at my life. I overdosed and I don't want to be

The person who that people are like, he died from drugs. He overdosed because I know I have so much more life in me. I have so much more to offer people. Like I started this podcast and interviewing people and it started getting bigger and bigger. But I'm trying to step it up to another level. I was on the movie set with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon.

about two months ago of the undesirables. And it's about a group of guys who go around robbing banks. And my goal is to be in movies and TV shows. And I got a lot of things in the works right now. That's awesome. What flipped that switch though for you to make that change? Because if you kept going down your path, you'd probably be dead or in prison at this point. So what was like that change of heart, that defining moment for you? The last time was the last overdose I had.

I was shooting heroin. And this was in your early 30s? Yeah, 33. Wow. No, 33. Four and a half years ago, November 14th, 2019. You were still doing drugs after you stopped going to prison? Yeah. And that was just to fuel your needs, your wants? What was that?

Just alcohol and, you know, being tattooing on the street too was a big thing. Like you're tattooing all these gang members. I would be around people who were less savory characters. Not all great people get tattoos, you know. There's some bad people. Like I would meet people at a gas station, some gang members.

I wouldn't even know them, but they would bring me to wherever with all their other gang members and they all want tattoos. So I'm there tattooing them for the next four days and I'm all messed up on drugs. I'm not thinking clearly. Crazy things are happening around me. You know, people are like people have been arrested. I've gotten into fights and I've been stabbed. I've been. You've been through a lot of shit in life. Yeah. And you just finally said like enough is enough.

Too much, man. I can't be 44 years old climbing up on a top bunk in prison being told when to go use the bathroom. And there are a lot of guys like that, though. Like I've met guys that are still strung out and they're still going in and out of prison at that age. They have families and stuff. How's like the relationships with your family now, your siblings, your mom? I thought it was unrepairable at one point. I thought it was it was done like

At one point, my mother was downfalling into addiction and I had to go turn myself in. And I was just like, my life is shit. Like, this is it. This is what my life is. I get out of prison and my birthday happens and I got no one there, nothing. Like, it's not like, no happy birthday, Bill. It wasn't that. It was, I got out of prison and no one's there to be like, you got this, man.

So I had to really pull myself out of the bullshit and like,

When's enough enough, man? And then once I started doing things in a positive direction, it's like, how bad do you want it? How far do you want to take this? Did you ever think about like suicide or anything like that? All the time. And I think that's why I lived the way I used to live. It's because I didn't want to live anymore. I didn't care about life. Yeah. I mean, that definitely causes like a lot of decisions in that regard, like to do

crazy things like to buy guns or do drugs when you I think the worst thing that can happen to someone is when like they lose the the will to live in that sense I hang out with uh Chad Marks shout out to Chad Marks um we went down to Kensington and I'm just seeing all these people shooting dope and it and it

Brings me right back to that place. I'm like, damn, man, this is not the life that I want. Yeah. It reassures why I do what I do. Now, someone with like a rap sheet as big and large as yours, how has that affected you? Like with housing, credit, jobs, anything like that? I cannot get an apartment anywhere. They deny me everywhere. I used to have a credit voucher for an apartment when I was homeless. They did not give me an apartment because of my record.

They were like, no, we don't want him living here. How do you overcome that? Have someone else rent it in their name? I don't know. Yeah, but is that like what life's like for you for the rest of your life? Like our, it's like our past, like,

supposed to define us in that way like how do you overcome that are there systems there to help you have you looked i mean now that i've been sober for this long i i have it in my mind now i'm gonna try to get a pardon i'm gonna try to take care of my old charges if that's even possible i don't even know with my habitual record they said if they see me in court one more time

they're not going to see me in there for a long time. And I don't want that. I know like time also helps too. Like if, like I know in the feds, like they don't look at stuff past 20 years. So hopefully like, at least in your scenario, some of that older stuff, I mean, if you're 40 years old, you shouldn't really be held accountable.

like responsible for the things you did at 13 years old, like saying you can't get an apartment because of some stupid shit you did when you were 13. But things happen. So I was on the way home from a court date. I had a hit and run. I took care of it. Right. My last court date I ever went to, I take care of the hit and run. I'm on my way home, driving by a gas station. I see this guy slapping a girl in the face. I'm like, pull over, man. Cause I'm Mr. I'm going to save this chick. Right.

i get out of the car i go running up the dude turns around and punches me in the face blood everywhere cops come i get arrested and you're the one with the record and i just left court that day yeah so that was the last time i ever got arrested so i go to court and the prosecutor said who got who's the one that got punched in the face i was like me

She's like, it looks like you learned your lesson. Don't come back here. And that was the last time I ever got in trouble. Yeah. I mean, I think in those scenarios too, you just have to be cautious of who you're around. Like me, I'm very cautious. Like I don't want to be involved with anyone that's doing anything like remotely shady because I don't want, like I know I'm at a disadvantage with my record. Like if there's something goes down at like a bar or something pops off, I'm the one that's going to get...

in trouble first because I'm the criminal in their minds. Yeah. Have you been pulled over since you've been out of prison? I've been pulled over once in the last four years and it was recently, it was a couple months ago and I was like, I told the officer right away, I'm like, hey, I just got off probation so it might still be in the system. Um,

This and that. And like, I'm like the worst criminal ever. I told the guy I was speeding. He was like, do you know why I pulled you over? And I'm like, yeah, you know, I was going a little too fast, this and that. And I was telling him about the probation thing. But I mean, I still have some like PTSD whenever I'm around cops or whatever.

like law enforcement officers or anything like that like my heart beats really fast and it's just scary because it just like brings back so many memories from the past cop city why are you nervous why is your heartbeat they go like this why is your heartbeat because i'm nervous man it's you have the right to be nervous around them yeah and i'm not even doing anything wrong and you just get nervous and i don't know if that ever really goes away when you go through stuff at like such a young age like that like it's scary i i get scared around cops still

So I'm at my house, right? I'm doing tattoos one day. This guy shows up. He's like, I want a tattoo. I look at him. It's this cop from jail, from prison. I'm like, this dude used to fuck with me in there. So he notices it's me. And he's like, I see his color drop out of his face. And he's like, he's in my house. And I'm like, yo, you remember me, right? He's just like, yo, I didn't mean all that.

I'm like, man, you're good, bro. And I ended up tattooing him. That's great. His wife's name on his chest. It's crazy. So is tattooing like your full-time gig now? No, no. That's just a part-time thing. My full-time gig is editing videos and, um,

I edit for people and I, I branch a lot of, I, um, connect people with each other to make different deals happen with, um, TV networks and things like that. Yeah. And that's going well for you. Yeah. It's going really good. And it keeps you out of trouble. Yeah. I'm always busy. I'm always, uh, 24 hours a day. I'm always working at my craft and I'm writing a movie right now. Um,

It's in the works, man. I'm around a lot of professional people. And it's what you're passionate about. It's not really work if you're passionate about it. Like me, I'm always on go, go, go, and I'm doing different things. And it's my passion. Yeah, if you're always busy with positive things, you don't have time to get fallen to the bullshit, you know? Yeah, like whenever I'm sad about something, whether it's like a relationship or anything in general, if I dive into work and what I'm doing, that takes my mind off of it. That and the gym.

Now, Bill, what would be your message to like your followers, the people listening to this, to that teenager that wants to follow your footsteps and be like a gangbanger, get involved in crime because they think it's cool? What do you say to those people? I say you don't need other people to fill that void. Yeah.

Look within yourself. You're worth it. I always used to believe that I wasn't good enough and that, you know, I'm just not good enough for whatever task that was at hand. But I know now that I am good enough and you're good enough too. And it took me a lot to get to where I am now. It took a lot of work, a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, man. It wasn't easy. But you can do it too and you don't have to live that life anymore.

Just believe in yourself. That's it. Well said, Bill. Thank you for coming on the show today. Where can people find you at? You can check me out on YouTube. It's ChattingWithStacksShow, C-H-A-T-T-I-N, with, and then Stacks, S-T-A-X-X. Awesome, man. I wish you the best. Thanks, man.